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A Conspiracy Theory; Tillerson a Friend of Russia's President; A look at Orlando's Attack; Unsolved Mystery. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired December 11, 2016 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
[17:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: "-- cannot become a partisan issue. The stakes are too high for our country". Senator McCain spelled out his concerns. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA SENATOR: Because it is clear the Russians interfered. Whether they intended to interfere to the degree that they were trying to elect a certain candidate, I think that's a subject of investigation. But the facts are stubborn things. They did hack into this campaign.
The Russians have interfered in a lot of other elections. The Russians have hacked into some of our most secret military information. The Russians have been active, using as a tool, as part of Vladimir Putin's ambition to regain Russian prominence and dominance in some parts of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Meantime, President-elect Donald Trump does not believe U.S. intelligence reports that conclude that Russia intervened in order to try to help him win the White House. Here is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT-ELECT: I think it's ridiculous. I think it's just another excuse. I don't believe it. And they have no idea if it is Russia or China or somebody. It could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. I mean, they have no idea.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Why would the CIA put out this story, that the Russians wanted you to win?
TRUMP: Well, I'm not sure they put it out. I think the democrats are putting it out because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: CNN's Ryan Nobles joins me live outside of Trump Tower in New York. And just to clarify something there, this was not, you know, one of the greatest Electoral College wins in history. But beyond that, moving to the substance of all of this, what is expected from this bipartisan push?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, there is a clear disconnect here between how the president-elect views the situation and how this group of bipartisan senators view it.
And it's brewing a potential, big showdown in Washington here over the several weeks. It's clear that the senators feel that this is a problem that needs to be investigated. And they're not going to just accept the fact that President-elect Trump thinks that there isn't a problem here.
Listen to what Chuck Schumer, the incoming Minority Leader in the senate, had to say about it this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUCK SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK SENATOR: The fact that the CIA and FBI disagree shows the need for a bipartisan investigation that gets to the bottom of this. The investigation should be tough, strong and bipartisan. And should have access to all materials, classified and not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: And there is a lot of questions that this raises, Poppy, including how the Trump administration will handle the relationship with Russia. The president-elect doesn't believe that Russia was behind the attack. It's clear that McCain, and Schumer and others clearly believe that the Russians were behind it.
And there's also going to be questions that if Congress does push for a full investigation, how cooperative will a Trump administration be in making that happen? If the president-elect doesn't think that there is a problem here, it could make things very difficult for Congress to push forward on this. It's going to be an important issue to look for as Trump takes office here in a few weeks. Poppy?
HARLOW: Ryan Nobles, reporting for us live outside Trump Tower. Thank you so much.
In just 40 days, President-elect Donald Trump will take the oath of office.
Let's bring in our panel. Joining me, Ron Brownstein, senior editor for the Atlantic, Betsy Woodruff, Daily Beast politics reporter, and Buck Sexton, former CIA counterterrorism analyst and national security adviser for the Blaze.com.
Ron, let me begin with you. Bipartisanship, not something we see very much, especially these days on Capitol Hill. But you have it in this statement that Ryan just reported on. Do you expect the president- elect to be supportive, fully supportive of a bipartisan investigation?
RON BROWNSTEIN, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Look, we have a confrontation that is developing that may escalate into a crisis. I mean, you have just an extraordinary circumstance where you had the intelligence community really make two conclusions, two separate conclusions.
The first one broadly accepted across the intelligence community was, is that it was Russia that was behind the hacks that roiled the 2016 election. The second, most recent conclusion was from the CIA that Russia did that to benefit Donald Trump.
Donald Trump has not accepted either step of that of those two conclusions. He's rejected again today the first one that the evidence points toward Russia being involved at all. And so, you have just this incredible separation of the incoming president not only from the intelligence community, but as John McCain said today when he said facts were stubborn things, he was quoting Ronald Reagan, and he was using that in response to Donald Trump.
It's worth noting that John McCain also said on Face of the Nation today that he would prefer a bipartisan special committee to do the investigation. But while that is being ironed out, the armed services committee, under the direction of Lindsey Graham, is going to be going ahead. So, like it to or not for Donald Trump, an investigation is coming.
HARLOW: Lindsey Graham, who we'll get to in a moment, also saying some things that he is very concerned and unnerved by the potential pick of Rex Tillerson as secretary of state, given the Russia ties.
We'll get to that in a little bit. But, Buck, given your experience at the CIA, talk to me about what position this puts incoming CIA director Mike Pompeo in.
[17:05:06] You know, if he comes in, and he is coming in, and a lot of the same folks work for him that work for the current CIA director. And Donald Trump is saying I don't trust what you say you found. What does he do?
BUCK SEXTON, THE BLAZE NATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Well, Donald Trump is saying he doesn't agree with the CIA on this one bit of information, which obviously is very politicized. There is the reality of Russian hacking...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Why is it obviously politicized?
SEXTON: I was about to say. There is the reality of the hacking that occurred, that most people for months, by the way, have known or believed at least with high confidence that Russia was behind. And then there is the motive behind it. Specifically, was this to help Donald Trump? That hasn't actually come out from the ICE in any kind of official report. That's just from sources supported by the Washington...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: It is what the -- it is what the CIA believes. It is not what all of the intelligence officials believe.
SEXTON: OK. The CIA is one of 16 intelligence agencies. And also by the way, the CIA is not officially saying that. The Washington Post has reported on sources who were unnamed from within the agency, who are making that claim. And it was also reported in the same Washington Post article, not everyone in the CIA who's looked at that agrees with that assessment. And that jump is critical here.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Have they called you that?
SEXTON: I'm sorry?
HARLOW: You're saying not everyone in the CIA agrees with that assessment. Has someone told you that?
SEXTON: I can tell you that in every assessment that's ever written in the CIA of any significance there is somebody who disagrees. And also within...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: So, you're making an assumption there?
SEXTON: No. The Washington Post reporting itself has said that this isn't a unanimous consensus opinion within the CIA. There's no -- they're talking to a few sources from inside that are saying this.
But if that is, in fact, the case, then we should be allowed to know. I do think there should be an investigation here. I think the fact should come out. It is troubling that Russia has tried to interfere -- or should I say did interfere in the U.S. election.
HARLOW: Yes.
SEXTON: But this is all being used as part of a much broader narrative to undermine the Trump administration before it takes day one in office. That's what this is about. And that's why everyone recognizes it.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Let me get Betsy in here. Let me get -- and I'll get back to you, Ron. Betsy, let me get you in here, because here's how the president-elect put it in this interview this morning with Chris Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They have no idea if it's Russia or China, or somebody. It could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. It could be Russia. It -- I don't really think it is, but who knows? I don't know either. They don't know, and I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: He's saying they don't know. Betsy, do you think that that
assessment or the trust in the veracity of information will change once his guy is leading the CIA?
BETSY WOODRUFF, POLITICAL REPORTER, THE DAILY BEAST: I think that's really difficult question to answer. That said, it's certainly unprecedented and extraordinary that Trump would say the CIA doesn't know that Russia may have been involved in these hacks. When broadly speaking, the intelligence community has come to the consensus that Russian government actors were connected to the hacking of this information.
That's not particularly controversial. And it's extraordinary that Trump would suggest the opposite is true. It's just -- it's baffling and it's something that I think is going to cause problems for him going forward.
I think to Buck's point about the idea that this entire investigation the bipartisan calls for an investigation are part of a narrative to undermine Donald Trump. I think we have to be really careful suggesting that there are certain news stories that don't deserve coverage because that --because those stories might have the effect of making people ask important questions about the way our elections get handled.
That said, of course, I think it's unlikely that the Russian hacking actually swayed the outcome of the election. Hillary Clinton's top staffers say they believe that big part of the reason she lost the election was because of Jim Comey's decision to reopen the investigation into her e-mail situation.
Of course, James Comey is not a Russian mole. That said, of course, this is a really complicated story. It's a really important story and has massive implications for us as a country.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: And I don't think Buck is suggesting, Buck here referring, you're not suggesting this shouldn't be covered. What you're saying is you believe it politicized.
(CROSSTALK)
SEXTON: No, not at all. I mean, that it's ridiculous. It's part of a larger narrative that is obviously politicized. Because once again, it has gone beyond the facts. People are conflating two things.
Russian interference in the election is not the same as Russian impact in the election, by the way, which even the people -- some of the loudest voices on this have been saying, it probably didn't change the outcome. They can't provide evidence to that fact.
And then also, that Russia specifically wanted Trump to win as opposed to just undermining our electoral process. That is an additional leap but that's not supported by the intelligence committee reporting on this. (CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Let me get Ron...
SEXTON: And between -- between fake news, the Russian interference in the election, the FBI director at some point, I think it would just be best for the left to accept that they lost this election because they had an imperfect candidate who couldn't get it done. That would be better for all of America.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: But Buck, you got -- you get senators in your own party who are saying, you know...
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
HARLOW: ... this needs to be investigated.
SEXTON: But they're not making those additional leaps. They're not the ones that are saying that this was meant, this isn't the Kremlin determining our elections.
HARLOW: Right.
SEXTON: If you look what's being said in the internet, the stuff is out of control.
BROWNSTEIN: But, Buck -- but, Buck, you said, just to clarify, Donald Trump has not accepted for the -- as you saw clearly in that clip, Donald Trump has not accepted what you have just described as fact, which is the broad consensus that Russia was intervening in the election.
It's not only that he's rejected the conclusion that they were intervening to support him. He has again, as recently as today and in the interviews this week with Time magazine, he has repeatedly rejected the broad consensus at the intelligence community that they intervened at all, which raises the broader question going forward of what will be his relationship to conclusions reached by the intelligence community? He really didn't accept them when they...
(CROSSTALK)
[17:10:11] SEXTON: Well, that's another leap. And Donald Trump knows...
BROWNSTEIN: ... when they said is ideological pre-elections.
SEXTON: He knows that he is in the midst of a media war with the left, and most of the media trying to undermine him before he takes day one in office. And so, yes, he's going to smack down a lot of these accusations out of hand in a reflective manner because he...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWNSTEIN: Do you think...
HARLOW: Buck, you may believe -- Buck, you may believe...
SEXTON: Anyone can see who's doing it.
HARLOW: Buck, you...
BROWNSTEIN: So you think it's an accusation?
SEXTON: I'm sorry. I didn't hear what...
BROWNSTEIN: Is it an accusation that Russia intervened in the election or is it a fact that Russia intervene?
SEXTON: Well, you know, since I used to -- I used to write for NCPDP, I don't anymore. Donald Trump as President-elect, I believe can ask the intelligence community whatever he wants. So he would have more information on that than I would.
I do believe that Russia was involved. I do believe the reports stretching back for months. The new bit of information, that is the reason that we're all saying here talking about this this weekend...
HARLOW: Yes.
SEXTON: ... is that it's now specific that they wanted Trump to win. It's now specific that they wanted Trump to win and, therefore, we can't trust the secretary of state like we can't trust anything he does with Russia.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: By the way, guys, I have to wrap it up here but you bring up -- you bring up...
(CROSSTALK)
SEXTON: That's a leap too far.
HARLOW: You bring up, Buck, the presidential daily briefing. That's not only something that's going to the president-elect right now. He is taking it once a week. It's something that's going to the sitting president. And this is something that the sitting president is also investigating.
Much more ahead, with all of you. Thank you very much. Ron Brownstein, Betsy Woodruff...
SEXTON: Thank you.
HARLOW: ... and Buck Sexton. Ahead this hour, a lot to get to.
Russia reacts. What's the Kremlin is saying about these accusations that's played a role in possibly tilting the U.S. election. No evidence there what the Kremlin is saying? We'll take you live to Moscow. Also, leading the pack, ExxonMobil chairman and CEO, Rex Tillerson,
the top candidate for Trump secretary of state. His links to Russian President Vladimir Putin, though, raising more than just some eyebrows.
And later, who killed JonBenet Ramsey? It is one of the greatest unsolved crimes in recent history, and a subject of a CNN special report. Our Jean Casarez joins me with a preview. You're live in the CNN Newsroom.
[17:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Reaction tonight from both Washington and Moscow, that Russia is accused of getting involved in the U.S. Presidential election with the goal of helping Donald Trump win.
And today, an unlikely alliance. Four high-profile U.S. senators, democrats and republicans coming together, penning a letter, saying they want an investigation, they want answers.
Our Matthew Chance is live for us in Moscow tonight. Matthew, a lot to get to. But let's begin with this, what is the official response, if there is any, from the Kremlin this evening?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They denied it. I mean, they denied it back in October when these allegations of Russian hacking into the U.S. presidential campaign were first floated.
They deny it again now, saying that it's just an attempt by the enemies of Russia to make the country look bad to the president-elect. And so, on that issue like on many other issues, Poppy, they are on the same page as Donald Trump. They're both denying that Russia had anything to do with it.
HARLOW: And on the secretary of state selection, obviously, a pick that hasn't been officially announced. And perhaps not even made yet. However, we know that the leading candidate is ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson. And tonight, Russia is signaling that it would love that.
CHANCE: Yes.
HARLOW: A key person in Russian government, Aleksey Pushkov, the head of the Foreign Affairs committee in the Lower House of Russian Parliament tweeted this today. "Trump continues to amaze." He also went on to say that picking Tillerson would be a, quote, "sensation." Noting that he has, quote, "a lot of experience working with Russia." They clearly like that pick, if it is, indeed, Tillerson.
CHANCE: Yes. I mean, Tillerson is somebody who is well-known in Russia. I mean, he's done hundreds of billions of dollars' worth of deals as the head of Exxon with the Russian government. He knows the players very well. That was, of course, one of the reasons Donald Trump says he is considering him.
But from a Russian point of view, you got somebody they regard as a friend of Russia, that it opens up all sorts of possibilities in this relationship between the United States and Russia. It's been at post- Cold War lows over the issue of Syria, of Crimea, of NATO expansion, eastern Ukraine.
You know, with a friend of Russia, supposedly, both in the White House and a position of secretary of state, that could really change. And it's got people in Russia genuinely excited.
HARLOW: Really? I mean, he did receive an award, the Order of Friendship, one of the highest awards that Russia bestows on foreign citizens just a few years ago.
And CNN Money is also reporting a really fascinating tidbit tonight. And that is that one of the reasons that Rex Tillerson was actually selected for the CEO post at ExxonMobil back in 2006, is in part because of his relationship with Russia. Do you know how far back that goes?
CHANCE: My understanding is that he started coming to Russia as an executive with Exxon back in 1999, which would have been exactly the same time when Vladimir Putin emerged from obscurity into prominence and eventually took on -- took on the presidency.
I mean, look, it's just the fact of doing deals with Russia and doing business in Russia. That you have to know the upper echelons, the power brokers, the leadership in order to get anything done. And you know, the CEO of Exxon has been very accomplished in doing that.
Back in 2011, he did a deal with the Kremlin, which is estimated to be worth half a trillion dollars, $500 billion, one of the biggest deals ever done. And after that, Putin, the Russian President, personally pinned that medal on his chest. It's called the Order of Friendship, as you say one of the highest civilian honors that Russia can give a civilian.
And so, yes, he really is seen as a friend of Russia. And he is perhaps the one American who has the closest relationship with the Kremlin.
HARLOW: That is absolutely fascinating. This is also all something that Donald Trump sees as an asset that could help him in Donald Trump's view as secretary of state. A lot of differing opinions on all of that. He will go through, if he is the nominee, the Senate confirmation process. We will watch. Matthew Chance in Moscow. Thank you so much.
Coming up, beside his ties with Russia, what else do we know about the leading contender for the Trump's secretary of state? A back story on the life of Rex Tillerson is next. You're live in the CNN Newsroom.
[17:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: CNN has learned that Rex Tillerson, the CEO of ExxonMobil, is the leading and likely pick for secretary of state. This according to a source within the transition. President-elect Donald Trump is said to be intrigued by Tillerson's
world view, but his potential nomination is raising some concerns not just from democrats but also from some republicans tonight. Particularly, over his close ties with Russia.
Rachel Crane reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REX TILLERSON, EXXOMOBIL CEO: When I was a brand-new engineer with Exxon in 1975, I was...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL CRANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He runs one of the world's biggest companies. Rex Tillerson, CEO of ExxonMobil, has spent his entire career at the oil giant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILLERSON: And I think, you know, we are -- we are the largest American oil company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRANE: Born in Wichita Falls, Texas, and a lifelong boy scout, Tillerson joined Exxon fresh out of the University of Texas in 1975, starting as a production engineer. He worked his way up the ranks and became CEO and chairman in 2006. And has amassed a fortune estimated to be over $240 million.
According to executive data providers, Equilar, Tillerson has no experience in the public sector, but his work at Exxon has taken him all over the world, and he has forged close ties to Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REINCE PRIEBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: This is a guy who has business relationships in every continent in the entire world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRANE: Tillerson received the distinguished Order of Friendship award from Vladimir Putin in 2013. And he describes his nearly two-decade long relationship with the Russian president as, quote, "very close."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILLERSON: He understands that I'm a businessman. And I've invested a lot of money. Our company has invested a lot of money in Russia very successfully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRANE: His business acumen and extensive work overseas has caught the attention and gained the respect of President-elect Trump. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, in his case, he's much more than a business executive. I mean, he is a world class player. And to me, a great advantage is he knows many of the players. And he knows them well. He does massive deals in Russia. He does massive deals for the company, not for himself, for the company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:25:08] CRANE: Under Tillerson's leadership, the company behemoth softened its stance on climate change, publicly acknowledging its existence and potential risks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILLERSON: So, I'm not -- I'm not disputing that increasing co2 emissions in the atmosphere is going to have an impact. They'll have a warming impact. How large it is, is what is very hard for anyone to predict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRANE: Tillerson, who is 64, is expected to retire as CEO of ExxonMobil when he turns 65 in March. The mandatory retirement age at the company.
Rachel Crane, CNN, New York.
HARLOW: Rachel, thank you for that reporting tonight.
So what will Tillerson's ties to Russia really mean if he does become America's top diplomat? Several republican senators, the very people who will have to approve Trump's appointments, already raising questions. Lindsey Graham calling it unnerving.
You're live in the CNN Newsroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: President-elect Donald Trump is said to be incredibly close to picking his secretary of state. Trump tweeting this morning, "Whether I choose him or not for state, Rex Tillerson, the chairman and CEO of ExxonMobil is a world class player and deal maker. Stay tuned."
We are. Sources say Tillerson is likely to be Trump's pick. But senators, including republicans, some are already raising red flags over Tillerson's close ties with Russia through his business.
Senator Marco Rubio tweeting today, "Being a friend of Vladimir Putin is not an attribute I'm hoping for in a secretary of state." Senator Lindsey Graham also speaking out telling the Washington POst, "I don't know if Tillerson match it all but let's put it this way. If you received an award from the Kremlin, an Order of Friendship, then we're going to have some talking. We'll have questions. I don't want to pre- judge this guy but that's a bit unnerving."
[17:29:58] Let's talk about it with our panel. Joining me now, Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst and senior editor at the Atlantic, Betsy Woodruff, politics reporter from the Daily Beast. And Andre Bauer, former Lieutenant Governor of South Carolina.
So, Andre, as someone who is a supporter of Donald Trump, who voted for him, let me get your take on whether or not you can understand the concern, appreciate the concern, that some have because of all of these ties to Russia that we've outlined. And these are ties that go all the way back to 1999, when he first started going there as an executive at Exxon.
ANDRE BAUER, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Well, Sure. I have a lot of respect for Lindsey Graham and John McCain. I endorsed John McCain for president when he ran the first time. And Lindsey Graham is my senator.
And I understand their apprehension. I mean, anybody should. Questioning one of Donald Trump's potential appointees is not a problem. And I think that's part of the whole system that we all appreciate. And we have a vetting process, whereby you have a United States Senate that gets to ask lots of questions, really in-depth questions so find somewhere else.
I don't think anyone has ever questioned Mr. Tillerson's loyalty to his country. He is a businessman. His role was to cut the best deals he could possibly cut for his -- for his company. But in a different role, wearing a different hat for his country, if he is willing to step down and give up a substantial paycheck in order to try to move our country forward, much like Donald Trump has done, I think that's a good thing.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: And he has to anyway...
BAUER: I don't have a problem with him being vetted thoroughly.
HARLOW: He will have to retire anyway because he will be the mandatory age of 65. But the question becomes, you bring up a good point, can he fully take off that hat? Right, when dealing as a diplomat with Russia if he does gets this posting.
Ron, you say that if Tillerson is Trump's pick for secretary of state, this, quote, "crystallizes" almost every theme in his transition in one appointment.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
HARLOW: What do you mean by that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, just think of how many different lines intersect here. First, you have the preference for kind of executive experience over necessarily policy expertise. A lot of business executives and generals in this cabinet. That's clearly what he feels most comfortable with.
You have the move right on environmental issues, despite the recent kind of change of tone from Exxon. Certainly, it is a company that has faced many questions over the years about its views about climate change. Its faced lawsuits on whether it was misleading investors about its exposure there.
And then you have kind of the explosive of kind of Russia connection, which is, you know, part of this -- extraordinary part of this story. And in a very kind of unconventional secretary of state process, this may be the most conventional moment, where Donald Trump and his team put up something like a trial balloon around Rex Tillerson.
And if that is the case, it has taken a fair degree of shrapnel. Because you have Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham, John McCain all raising serious questions today. That's enough. That's it. That's 49 -- you know, that's -- there's only 52 republicans in the Senate.
So, it is going to be interesting to see if he proceeds against this. It is the final point, it would be that is a provocative pick against the backdrop of all of this debate over what Russia was doing in the election and what its goal was in the election. To pick someone with such conspicuous ties to Putin really is a reflection I think of the way Trump views kind of political capital and how you kind of advance your agenda. Often, it is to go straight ahead and to kind of deliver, you know, kind of right between the eyes.
HARLOW: He also knows though that it did not...
BAUER: Well...
HARLOW: ... bother many Americans that he didn't have any political or diplomatic experience and, therefore, perhaps does not believe that someone who would have the posting as the top diplomat needs to have that either, in the eyes of his supporters.
Betsy, let me ask you this. Because we're getting signs from Russia that they like this. I mean, you know, a major name in Russia's government, Aleksey Pushkav, the head of the Foreign Affairs committee in their Lower House of Parliament, tweeted a few things today, including saying, quote, "Trump continues to amaze."
And saying, "Picking Tillerson would be a sensation." Saying, "he has a lot of experience with Russia." I mean, this is just in line with what Donald Trump said in debates, on the campaign trail, that we should have a warmer, better relationship with Russia. How should that sit with the American people tonight?
WOODRUFF: Well, it's something that's going to raise a lot of questions. And the fact that Russian officials are tweeting things like that it would not do Tillerson any favors, as he is potentially heading into the confirmation process.
Remember, he doesn't just have to get through the Senate, where he needs to get 51 of the 100 senators to vote for him. He has to get through the Senate foreign relations committee before he even gets that floor vote. That committee includes 10 republicans and nine democrats, and if just one or two republicans peel off, he's in huge trouble.
Andre said earlier, I believe, that nobody is questioning Tillerson's devotion to his country. But that may not actually be accurate. Bob Menendez who is a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations committee, a democratic senator from New Jersey put out a statement yesterday where he said, that Tillerson's name being floated is, quote, "alarming and absurd."
I'm confident that there is a number of American voters who share that view. The fact that and Menendez has even suggested that Tillerson might be more loyal to Russia, that he might an accomplice for Putin as secretary of state rather than to the American people.
(CROSSTALK)
[17:35:02] HARLOW: But, Betsy, let's be careful before we come...
WOODRUFF: Of course, those all...
HARLOW: I mean, let's be very careful in throwing out any accusations like that. Let's get Andre counter that?
BAUER: Well, it's sad that we get to that point. This guy has never had that question raised ever before. Now that we talk about secretary of state, instead of giving the guy his fair day to be questioned, you know, immediately, they're throwing grenades on the guy.
And I also want to correct he actually supports carbon tax credits.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
BAUER: And he supports the Paris Climate Agreement, which actually Trump doesn't even support, to the best of my knowledge. So, there is a little bit of, you know, difference in opinion there. But he actually does support that.
HARLOW: That's right.
BAUER: And again, this is a business guy that did the best he could for his company. This should be an individual now that would do the best he could for his country. And so, when you have strong attributes, to immediately go after somebody it just seems like anymore the buzzword is, let's tie everybody to Russia and say that, you know, they're supportive of their cause.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: I would just...
BAUER: This guy was a businessman.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
BAUER: He dealt with countries all over the world, buying and selling gas and oil. And some of the most troubled spots in the world, he didn't have close...
(CROSSTALK)
WOODRUFF: Right.
HARLOW: Andre?
BAUER: Sure.
HARLOW: I have to button it up, guys. But on the business point, I mean, there is an important point to make. And this is just fact. There is no opinion. In the fact that Exxon has this huge deal in Russia. That because of the sanctions against Russia got halted, that has cost Exxon about $1 billion so far, according to regulatory filings.
Rex Tillerson in March said, we're very anxious to get back to work there. And that therein lies the questions about what hat you're wearing as the businessman he is now and if you can completely take that off, becoming secretary of state.
I have to leave it there. Thank you all very much. Ron Brownstein, Betsy Woodruff, and Andre Bauer.
Moving and switching gears to a very important story. Because tomorrow marks six months since the Orlando nightclub attack, one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history.
Next, you will hear a firsthand account from the police who were called to the scene of the crime and who helped in the immediate aftermath.
You're live in the CNN Newsroom.
[17:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Tomorrow marks six months since one of the worst terror attacks and mass shootings in U.S. history. Forty nine people killed, 53 wounded during a rampage inside Orlando' Pulse nightclub.
CNN went back to Orlando and sat down for in-depth interviews with Orlando Police Chief John Mina and several of the SWAT and police officers who were the first to respond.
Our national correspondent Deborah Feyerick brings us their story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please come to the Pulse, P-u-l-s-e, in Orlando. And he's shooting and everybody is bleeding everywhere.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Where was the concentration of people who didn't make it?
JOHN MINA, CHIEF, ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: The main dance floor was the greatest concentration of dead bodies. He did most of his killing within the first two minutes. You know, the video and the audio that I've heard, you know, multiple, multiple gunshots, multiple magazine exchanges all within the first minute or two.
FEYERICK: Do you have any sense of how many rounds he fired?
MINA: Hundreds of rounds. I don't know the exact count.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: The first to Orlando police officers arrived on scene while the gunman was still shooting.
Sergeant Ira Morris and his team entering into the open patio, and on to the dance floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IRA MORRIS, POLICE OFFICER, ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: We were saying things like, if anyone can hear us, raise your hand. Some of the folks that were, of course they were obviously deceased but they were still trying to hold on to each other to protect each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: On the opposite side, near the main door, Office James Hyland was preparing to make entry with the second team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES HYLAND, POLICE OFFICER, ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Once I was up to the south doors a female came out and she just dropped to the ground. So, while there's gunfire still going on, I tapped one of the officers in front of me. I said, hey, you know, give me some cover. I went and grabbed the female.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: shattering a picture window, Hyland and SWAT Officer Ben Chisari moved quickly towards to the back of the club.
BEN CHISARI, SWATT OFFICER: We got five other -- five or six other officers with us and we made entry into the club where the gunfire was coming from. You know, we had an idea that the gunman was in the bathroom. We just didn't know where at the time. So we held our positions.
FEYERICK: Is it fair to say you had your firearm up and ready?
CHISARI: Absolutely.
FEYERICK: The whole time?
CHISARI: The whole time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: The shooter briefly appears. The police fire but miss. The gunman is barricaded with hostages.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HYLAND: The shooter was in the bathroom, and they were holding cover on him, which allowed me and a bunch of officers to go in there and to start to extracting the wounded that were in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Ambulances were blocks away outside of the safety perimeter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HYLAND: I remember shouting, "Use my truck. Get them out of here." And then another officer came in and he actually jumped in the driver's seat of my truck. So, people that we were pulling out, they would take them from behind the cars that I pulled them. And then they loaded them on to the back of the truck and then they take them down to the hospital down the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Fifteen trips in all as frantic phone calls come steadily from inside the nightclub.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hurry up. He's loading up, he's loading in the bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caller is advising he is reloading in the bathroom.
(END VOICE CLIP)
FEYERICK: Thirty minutes into the attack, the self-proclaimed ISIS gunman exchanges three phone calls with police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's been some vehicle outside that have some bombs just to let you know. Your people are going to get it, and I'm going to ignite it if they try to do anything stupid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: A new threat as a bomb dog identifies the scent of explosives in the gunman's car. Dozens of police and deputies work quickly to rescue survivors hiding throughout the club.
Some two dozen hostages remained trapped in the south bathroom, and in the north the gunman is pointing his assault rifle towards the door, ready for police. It is more than two hours into the standoff.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why isn't anyone coming to get us in the bathroom? There's two people in here that are about to die. There's four already dead. Someone needs to come in here now.
(END VOICE CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MINA: If our officers were few away had heard him start shooting they obviously would have went right through that bathroom door and engaged him.
FEYERICK: A text comes through at about 4.30 saying he is going to put suicide vests on us and blow the club up. That must have accelerated things pretty significantly.
MINA: It did. Negotiations had stopped and he wasn't answering our phone calls.
[17:45:05] CHISARI: It was relayed to us while we were in there that he had explosives and that he was going to blow the club up if we didn't back out. No one backed out.
MINA: When my SWAT team commander tells me what the plan is, I say get ready for an explosive breach. He comes back and says, they're ready.
ROBERT WOODYARD, SWAT OFFICER: It went off. Hit the lights and kid of the dust settled and the wall was still there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: SWAT Officer Robert Woodyard aims his armored vehicle with his battering ram at the rear wall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOODYARD: I change in to four-wheel drive just in case and just drove at the hole that was supposed to be breached.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: But it was the hallway, the hostages are feet away. So he rams a second hole.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOODYARD: I remember backing out and just seeing hands, just immediately. And a couple of the guys on the ground grabbed the hand held ram and they started to make the holes bigger. And once they got big enough, people started coming out.
MINA: The officers did starts hearing shot coming from the north bathroom. And we learned later from the survivors that was the shooter shooting out at the officers. So that's when our officers, again, thinking they'll fly through some
diversionary devices and their flash-bangs, made some loud noise and some bright light. And somewhere during that time period that's when the shooter came out of the big hole that was made in the hallway and immediately began firing at our officers.
Several other officers also returned fire. Killing him right there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: The standoff is over three hours and 15 minutes after it began. Forty nine people are dead. Fifty three injured. With 101 people rescued from inside the club by dozens of police and sheriff's deputies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Why not launch that rescue operation sooner?
MINA: Going in that doorway within the first few minutes, basically would have been a suicide mission for the officers. But also, like I said, more importantly, I believe many hostages would have lost their lives at that moment. Either from the gunman or from friendly fire from our officers, if we had gone in right away through the bathroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: The survivors were interviewed that same day. Only then did Chief Mina learn the gunman had been waiting to ambush his SWAT team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MINA: I'm very, very proud of the way the Orlando Police Department responded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Orlando, Florida.
HARLOW: Pretty incredible. Deborah, thank you so much for that.
Coming up next, 20 years after her death, we explore the unsolved murder of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey. It is the subject of a new CNN documentary. That's next.
[17:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: This Christmas will mark 20 years since the mysterious death of JonBenet Ramsey. The six-year-old child beauty queen's murder has never been solved and has had no shortage of suspects, but no real answers.
Our Jean Casarez talk to those closest in the ongoing investigation in a special report that airs this Tuesday night.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's going on -- what's going on there ma'am?
(END VOICE CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is one of the greatest unsolved crimes in history.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a kidnapping. There's ransom note here.
(END VOICE CLIP)
CASAREZ: A little girl vanishes from home Christmas night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BENNETT RAMSEY, JONBENET RAMSEY'S FATHER: It's just like you got lit in the stomach. Where's my child?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Hours later she's found strangled to death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAMSEY: I couldn't do anything but scream.
PATSY RAMSEY, JONBENET RAMSEY'S MOTHER: Keep your babies close to you. There's someone out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Surreal images of the pageant star transfixed the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you stage mother?
P.RAMSEY: Probably. What's wrong with that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: No charges have ever been filed. Nobody ever convicted. Tonight, the theories, secrets and bombshells.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, hurry, hurry, hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Patsy, Patsy, Patsy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: A CNN special report, the murder of JonBenet.
HARLOW: That is Tuesday night. Jean Casarez is with me now. I can't wait to see it. I know a lot of work went into this. What was it like. It's been 20 years. What was it like revisiting this case and speaking
with those closest to it? Obviously, to JonBenet's father.
CASAREZ: It was extraordinary. And that's what we want to bring to all the viewers. I interviewed John Ramsey who is getting on in years and for hours I spoke with him. And he took me through everything, not that he wanted to but he did.
And we heard about Christmas Day. He talked about how when he realized there was a ransom note what went through his mind. He talks about that afternoon when he went down to the basement and he is the one that found JonBenet. He goes through that.
I asked him about the grand jury because they vote unanimously to indict him and his wife. And he describes to me his thoughts then. He believed he was going to be indicted. And now in reflection what he thinks about it.
And then, also, the DNA evidence.
HARLOW: Right.
CASAREZ: I spoke to the forensic scientist that did DNA testing. So it's not someone just analyzing numbers. She did the testing.
HARLOW: Wow.
CASAREZ: And so she talks to me about how and what happened and when she found out the results and what those results were.
HARLOW: Wow. I mean, I remember this case so well but the details I don't like what you just mentioned. And we have to watch to see exactly what she says. It's fascinating obviously, as I said at the top this case has never been solved. The evidence is confusing to say the least, right? You have a ransom note left in the home when it wasn't even a kidnapping which is -- which is odd.
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: A ransom note.
HARLOW: A long three-page ransom note.
CASAREZ: Asking for the amount of money that was John Ramsey's bonus that year.
HARLOW: Wow.
CASAREZ: And remember, they were prime suspects.
HARLOW: Right.
CASAREZ: He and Patsy. HARLOW: A $118 as you said.
CASAREZ: Yes.
HARLOW: The botched crime scene. The investigation still ongoing.
CASAREZ: Ongoing. Active investigation. I speak to the current district attorney of Boulder that says I will follow charges. I will go forward. I just need evidence that tells me beyond the reasonable doubt that someone did this.
[17:55:05] And remember, the D.A. before him absolutely excused and apologized and exonerated the parents. But this district attorney says I don't think we're in the business of exonerating people. And I'm looking for the evidence.
HARLOW: Fascinating. Jean Casarez, thank you so much. Again, the CNN special report, the murder of JonBenet airs Tuesday night9 p.m. Eastern in Pacific only right here on CNN.
Coming up on CNN tonight, honoring every day heroes. Making a difference in our world. Anderson Cooper and Kelly Ripa joined me live from the CNN Heroes red carpet. Straight ahead.
You're live in the CNN Newsroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. You are live in the CNN Newsroom.
And we begin with this, a bipartisan call for an investigation into Russia's apparent attempt to try to sway the outcome of the U.S. election.
Four sitting U.S. senators, two republicans, and two democrats say every American should be alarmed.
The group includes republicans Senators John McCain, and Lindsey Graham, along with democratic Senator Chuck Schumer, the incoming minority leader, and Senator Jack Reed, the top armed services committee democrat.
[18:00:04] In a joint statement, they warn, quote, "This cannot become a partisan issue. The stakes are too high for our country."
Senator McCain spelled out his concerns as well here. Listen.
