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Two of 52 Republican Senators Not Sure on ExxonMobil CEO As Secretary of State; Trump Says Offers for Big Business Deals Keep Pouring In; 2016 CNN Heroes Awarded Tonight. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 11, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.
President-elect Donald Trump is telling us exactly what he thinks of the CIA's assessment that Moscow meddled in the election with the intent to help Trump win. Here is the president-elect earlier today on FOX News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it is ridiculous. It is just another excuse. I don't believe it.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Do you think that CIA is trying to overturn the results of the election or somehow to weaken you in office?
TRUMP: Well, if you look at the story and you take a look at what they said, there is great confusion. Nobody really knows. Hacking is very interesting. Once they hack, if you don't catch them in the act, you're not going to catch them. They have no idea if it is Russia or China or somebody. It could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. I mean, they have no idea.
WALLACE: Why would the CIA put out the story that the Russians wanted you to win?
TRUMP: I'm not sure they put it out. I think the Democrats are putting it out because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: He didn't offer evidence to support that. What he meant by Democrats putting it out. Let's get more on that in just a moment because if Trump's team thinks they can blame this on the Democrats, the only problem is key Senate Republicans are also promising a full investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It is clear the Russians interfered. Now, whether they intended to interfere to the degree that they were trying to elect a certain candidate, I think that's subject of investigation. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: And expect the words "Russia" and "Putin" to come up with a lot when it comes to be the man reported to be Trump's favorite right now in his secretary of state search. Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson has close ties to Moscow. Such close ties that he was awarded an order of friendship award by the Russian president just a few year ago. That prompted this clip from Republican senator Lindsey Graham. Quote to the "Washington Post." I don't know the man much at all. But let's put it this way. If you received an award from the kremlin, an order of friendship, then we're going to have some talking.
I want to get straight to Ryan Nobles outside of Trump tower in New York.
And Ryan, Trump was specifically asked if he has certain skepticism toward the intelligence community as a whole.
RYAN NOBLES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He was, Poppy. And he didn't go all the way to say that he does have that skepticism. But he certainly eluded to that fact. Then he was asked whether or not he wants to continue to receive daily intelligence briefings. There are reports right now that he is receiving the briefings once a week. When Chris Wallace pressed him on that, asking why he wasn't receiving the press briefings more than once a week, this is what Trump had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I get it when I need it.
WALLACE: But is there some skepticism?
TRUMP: First of all, these are very good people giving me the briefings. And I said if something should change from this point, immediately call me. I'm available on one minute's notice. I don't have to be told, you know, I'm a smart person. I don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years. Could be eight years, but eight years. I don't need that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: And Democrats, of course, seizing on Donald Trump, saying he is smart enough and doesn't need to receive these intelligence briefings every day. They say this shows a lack of understanding of the responsibilities that Trump has in front of him as he becomes the next commander in chief. But right now, Poppy, he seems to be skeptical of the intelligence community. He even told Chris Wallace he is prepared to bring his people in once he becomes president of the United States. And perhaps that leads to a different direction at the CIA - Poppy.
HARLOW: Perhaps. When we look at the secretary of state selection, we know they're getting closer and closer and likely to be announced -- I don't know when. I think that really is the question. Because Rex Tillerson is the man leading the pack right now. But when do you think we'll get official word from team Trump?
NOBLES: Well, the transition put out on their official twitter handle this morning that the announcement won't come until next week. Now, next week is kind of an open question. On a Sunday, does that mean tomorrow, beginning next week, or could it be a week from now?
HARLOW: Right.
NOBLES: It could come any day, frankly. And actually, Donald Trump himself tweeted about the speculation related to Rex Tillerson. His tweet read, whether I choose him or not for state, Rex Tillerson, the chairman and CEO of Exxon Mobil is a world class player and deal maker. Stay tuned.
And Trump was asked about that. About Tillerson and Tillerson's role and the criticism that he has received. A lot of these attributes about Tillerson. The fact that he has close ties to Russia, the fact he is a CEO of a major oil company. Those are all things that Trump views as attributes and it is one of the reasons, Poppy, that he is seriously considering him as the next secretary of state.
HARLOW: Right. And he said he's made the deals all over the world. He knows these leaders. That'd be a great qualification, says Trump. Other Republican senators have a lot of questions.
Ryan Nobles, thank you very much.
Let's go to our political panel and commentators now. Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord is with us. Also Ryan Lizza, a Washington bureau correspondent for the "New Yorker."
Jeffrey, let me begin with you. The early reaction to Tillerson as a possible secretary of state pick has not been the most supportive. I mean, you've seen it. Not just from Democrats. It is from Republicans, too. This morning, you had Senator Marco Rubio of Florida tweeting this. Being a friend of Vladimir Putin is not an attribute I'm hoping for from a secretary of state. If Tillerson is the pick, walk us through what you think this confirmation process is going to look like because you've already got two of 52 Republican senators saying, not so sure.
[19:05:24] JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Actually, Poppy, there were a book and a movie about this in the late '50s and early '60s. It was called "advise and consent." it is about the nomination of somebody for secretary of state by presumably a liberal president who nominated an athlete Stevenson-type in the day to be secretary of state and there was too controversy over it.
These things happen. And I have to tell you, Poppy, as somebody who worked in Washington a long time, worked in the White House and on Capitol Hill, Washington has a -- this is something of a tribal ritual. They pick somebody out there. They put them under the glare, which is fine. I mean, all these nominees for anything should answer questions. That's fine. But there is sort of, you know, burn the witch at the stake aspect of this. And this smacks just a little bit of what that might be. And I would just suggest with respect to the senators, if they're --
HARLOW: Do you think --
LORD: If they're going to - Sure. If they want to question his relationship with Vladimir Putin and Russia and Russian influence, yes. But again, I would say, broaden the investigation. Let's see what -- I mean, you don't have to be a Russian to hack. I mean, there could be a hacking in the American electoral system from other sources right here in this country. Investigate that.
HARLOW: That is what our intelligence agencies, the best of the best have been doing, and the CIA concluding, and others, you know, as far back as October --
LORD: The FBI -- I mean, I just --
HARLOW: But Jeffrey, I can't get into a debate over that right now. I hear your point. I'm telling you what our reporting is.
Ryan, to you on this issue of the CIA's reporting, that Russia's meddled in the election. When you look at the Trump team and how they are responding, we heard from the president-elect just there. And also now, let's hear from Reince Priebus, his incoming chief of staff. The MOM seems to be, it is not true. It is not true. It is not true. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, HOST, MEET THE PRESS: Does the president-elect believe that Russia was trying to muddy up and get involved in the election in 2016?
REINCE PRIEBUS, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Number one, you don't know it. I don't know it. There's been no conclusive or specific report to say otherwise. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would tell you is that you don't have any proof that the outcome of the election was changed. Forget about who did the hacking.
TODD: Do you want to know?
PRIEBUS: Someone did the hacking. You don't --
TODD: Does president-elect Donald Trump want to know?
PRIEBUS: What specific -- of course we want to know.
TODD: He wants an investigation on Capitol Hill?
PRIEBUS: Of course -- listen, I don't know what investigations he wants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: It was a much longer, Ryan as you know, back and forth between the two of them this morning on "Meet the Press." But he's saying, what's your source? What's your evidence? Talking about intelligence officials. At the same time, the president-elect on the interview on FOX this weekend said, I blame the Democrats. But he didn't put a source out for that.
RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, Reince is right. There is some ambiguity about what happened here. And in October, the intelligence agencies did put out a statement that was general about Russian hacking in the election. What was new this week is apparently, they told some members of Congress that the intention of that hacking, which they have never been firm on, was, in fact, to support Trump's election. That's a pretty serious allegation. That's a big deal.
And look, I understand why president-elect Trump is concerned about this, because it affects his mandate. It will affect his legitimacy in some sense, if it is proven that the Russian government instituted a massive propaganda campaign to help elect him. So the only -- this issue is way too important to have anonymous, sourced commentary from members going to the hill and briefing members of Congress. This, I mean, to me, this screams out for a comprehensive investigation. Get to the bottom of it.
HARLOW: That's --
LIZZA: Put it behind us. Look, he is going to be the president no matter what. It's not like there is a case for someone else as president. Whatever problems there were in the election, he's the president-elect. But we need to know as a country whether one of our major adversaries hacked our system and propagated a propaganda campaign. Whether it helped him or someone else, it is much bigger than Donald Trump. We need to -- and so I think Reince is right. We don't have all the information. And going forward, we need to have it.
HARLOW: So that is being called for, deeper investigation. As you both know, we have this bipartisan group of senators. Chuck Schumer, Jack Reed, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, calling in this joint statement that says, in part, we have the obligation to inform the public about cyber-attacks that cut to the heart of our free society. Democrats and Republicans must work together in the Congress to examine these recent incidents.
Jeffrey Lord, your reaction to that and what you would like to hear from the president-elect about that. Given that this is, you know, prominent Democrats and Republicans calling on this together. Do you want to hear more supportive words from the president-elect about such an investigation?
[19:10:35] LORD: I want them to come up with the evidence. If they've got evidence, let's produce it. I mean, Chairman Priebus was --
HARLOW: But they were saying, let's dig in. We need to dig in more on this.
LORD: OK. HARLOW: Do you want to hear the president-elect say, you guys are
right, go for it?
LORD: I would hope the president-elect would say, OK, dig in. Because the other week, he talked about fraud in voting are illegal immigrants voting, non-citizens voting. This is all part and parcel of the same thing. At the end of the day, it doesn't make any difference whether it is a Russian hack or a non-citizen of the United States actually physically voting. You are influencing the U.S. election system. And either way, if we're going to have an investigation, do it. Let's get it on. Let's really dig into it.
HARLOW: Ryan.
LIZZA: Yes.
HARLOW: Go ahead.
LIZZA: No, I was just going to say, look. From what I have seen, there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. We do have the intelligence community saying publicly that the Russians had an intelligence operation against --
LORD: Not by name though, Brian.
LIZZA: But -- fine. If there is going to be an investigation into voter fraud, do it. But this issue is far too important to get bogged down in defensive politics because you think it is going to damage Donald Trump's reputation. This is bigger than him. This is our electoral system, Jeffrey. I know there is --
LORD: I understand.
LIZZA: -- instinct to defend your guy. But Jeffrey, as an American, you and every Republican, every Trump defender, every Democrat should want to get to the bottom of Vladimir Putin interfering in our election.
LORD: I do.
LIZZA: If Jill Stein had been elected --
LORD: You're an illegal immigrant voting, you are interfering with our electoral system. I agree with you.
LIZZA: Do you think that's the same thing, Jeffrey?
LORD: Of course it is.
LIZZA: Really? You think --
LORD: Of course it is.
LIZZA: Propaganda campaign from a foreign adversary is the same as illegal immigrants voting in an election?
LORD: If you are influencing the election by showing up to vote when you have no right to vote, yes, you are doing exactly the same thing.
HARLOW: What Ryan is asking you is the magnitude of the threat.
LORD: Poppy, that's --
HARLOW: Are they equivalent?
LIZZA: Jeffrey, you're throwing out peripheral issues. This is our country, Jeffrey.
LORD: Ryan, you are trying to defend --
LIZZA: Jeffrey, I'm not -- I'm not defending either party. I'm defending American democracy, Jeffrey. We have a foreign power --
LORD: Me, too.
LIZZA: -- that our intelligence agencies are credibly telling us interfere in our election. Every Trump supporter on TV gets their back up and gets defensive. It is not an attack on Trump. It is not. It is an attack on American democracy.
LORD: Foreign citizens voting in this country is an attack on American democracy, just like Russia.
LIZZA: Where is the evidence of that, Jeffrey? Where is the evidence because that that is an important issue? Tell me the evidence.
LORD: the government accountability office reported back in 2005 there was evidence of this.
LIZZA: It is 2016, Jeffrey. The issue before us is --
LORD: Right.
LIZZA: -- Russian interference in the election, not a 2005 report.
HARLOW: I have to get a break. You'll both be back with me. It is important. We'll keep debating. You'll be right back. Thank you very much.
Coming up, we have a big hour ahead. Counting down to a very special, non-political event. Our tenth annual CNN heroes: all-star tribute. Our Deb Feyerick is live on the red carpet.
Hey, Deb.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, there, Poppy. Well, it is star studded event. A lot of people here. Celebrities who are honoring people who are making a difference in the lives of a lot of people. We'll have all that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:17:14] HARLOW: Tonight is the tenth annual CNN heroes: an all- star tribute, evening dedicated to honoring everyday people for changing the world in remarkable ways. One of tonight's honorees will be selected as the CNN hero of the year based to your votes online. The event is hosted by our very owned Anderson Cooper and guest host Kelly Ripka as well as a number of celebrity presenters.
CNN national correspondent Deborah Feyerick is on the red carpet with someone who is performing tonight, Tony award-winning actress and singer, Idina Menzel.
Hey, Deb.
FEYERICK: Yes. Hey, there, Poppy. And yes, here Idina Menzel.
This is your first time. You are going to be performing a song, "I see you." And that's an incredible song. And you have such a magnificent voice. Tell us about just the impact of the song, of the environment, of the event.
IDINA MENZEL, SINGER: Well, it is quite overwhelming, actually. Because the song means so much to me. It is on my own album. I never thought it would have this opportunity, to sort of be used as this vessel to kind of like underscore this great tribute tonight, with these amazing, beautiful people. It is always what I -- how it affected me. But I'm just so happy that I can speak to them, hopefully.
FEYERICK: Well, your voice is so incredible. I mean, we all know "let it snow." We all know, you know, every time I hear that --
MENZEL: But it is not "let it snow." "Let it go," right?
FEYERICK: It is snowing right now. I morphed it a little bit. But you know, when you're in the presence of people who just -- ordinary people who are so humble in the extraordinary differences that they are making in people's lives, what about your passion project? What do you feel strongly about?
MENZEL: I created a foundation called a broader way with my best friend from college, Heather (INAUDIBLE) and we bring the arts to young girls and sort of use the arts to help them find their true voice and their individuality. So it is a camp. And we bring all these girls up to the mountains for ten days and we sing and we dance and we swim and we do everything. And t's just changed my life. I think they do more for me and teach me more about life than we do for them.
FEYERICK: Well, when you see the transformation that happens, and we are seeing that even now. I mean, Poppy, they have incredible people they are honoring tonight. You got people working with refugees, people working with children with cerebral palsy.
MENZEL: Breast cancer.
FEYERICK: Breast cancer. There is just a range of different people doing different things. What's the transformation you see?
MENZEL: The transformation that I see? I mean, I think what it is about is this ripple effect. That we understand that we all really can make a difference. And that it is not just the people that might have all the means, that you can be a regular person. And as long as you have this passion and this love and devotion, dedication, that you can really, you know, make change and make things happen. And some of us need a kick in the butt sometimes. We need to be inspired to remember that it is not all about us. And there's all these people out there that need us. So we need to thank these people that we're here with today for teaching us that.
[19:20:13] FEYERICK: A lot of people want to make a difference and want to have an impact and want to leave the place a little better than when they found it.
Idina Menzel, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. We look so forward to hearing your song tonight. So enjoy.
MENZEL: And I will do "let it snow" next time for you.
FEYERICK: Please. I would like that actually. Thank you so much, Idina. Thank you. Have fun.
MENZEL: Thanks.
FEYERICK: And Poppy, really, it is just a fun night. And you know, there is one woman I was speaking to, one of the honorees. She founded an organization, left her day job, decided she wanted to go back to Kenya and make a difference in people's lives. And in two years, she's stretching it from 400 to 500 people that she is having an impact, bringing vaccines and things like that to more than 2,000. In two years-time, she is changing that many lives and we have seen that throughout the night. So really spectacular.
HARLOW: And saving lives, no doubt.
Deborah Feyerick, on the red carpet. Thank you so much, Deb. We appreciate it. Have fun.
All right. As we go to break tonight, tonight's co-host, the one, the only Kelly Ripka says, of course, she wore waterproof mascara to prepare for the inevitable. Tears to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY RIPKA, CO-HOST, CNN HEROES: Always. But I made a big fatal mistake. I'm wearing false eyelashes for some reason. So I don't think - I think they can wash away. I'm not sure.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Why do you need false eyelashes? I never understand false eyelashes.
RIPKA: It is a special event.
COOPER: OK. I just never understood it.
RIPKA: He doesn't understand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:25:19] HARLOW: We are just minutes away from the tenth annual CNN Heroes: all-star tribute. Tonight, one of those ten honorees will be named hero of the year and receive $100,000 to continue their life- changing work.
Let's go back to Deborah Feyerick. She is live on the red carpet, and she is with Edward Norton.
FEYERICK: That's right. And we are grabbing people. Edward Norton kind enough to speak to us here on this great night.
You said something powerful. That this is really a special occasion. Tell me what it means.
EDWARD NORTON, ACTOR: I think the work these people are doing is like worth celebrating ten times more than any artistic achievement or sports achievement or anything. I think these are the people who really actually deserve heroic stature in our society.
FEYERICK: As someone who tends to get into characters, it is fascinating to see people who you would pass by on the street, no one would notice them. But the work they're doing is extraordinary and has a deep impact on the lives of individuals. That must resonate.
NORTON: Yes. I mean, I think that -- I don't know why we put the spotlight on the people that we tend to more than people like this. I think these are people who are literally holding our society up, you know, keeping it from imploding inward on itself. I think these are the people who should be -- millions of dollars should be pouring in to support the work of these people, and we should be hailing them as our examples of our real like examples of what a great American and what a great person is.
FEYERICK: Yes, no question. I mean, you see a number of these honorees and, really, they're impacting people with cancer, they are impacting foster kids who haven't been adopted. Even people older, senior citizens, who when they pass away, their pets are being given to other senior citizens. You never think about that. It is really just so small but so big.
NORTON: Yes. I think that someone a long time ago once said that America is a place that organizes itself in a lot of ways. You know, we go through these political upheavals and everything. But I think that, you know, citizen advocates, citizen champions, people who just see a need and get it done I think are really some of the most remarkable people.
FEYERICK: Edward Norton, thank you so much. You have a big movie coming out. We are looking forward to seeing that.
NORTON: Yes, next week.
FEYERICK: Thank you so much for stopping by. NORTON: Absolutely.
FEYERICK: You have a great night tonight.
NORTON: Thank you.
FEYERICK: Take care. Bye-bye.
Alright, Poppy. And as you say, minutes away from getting underway. And we look forward to the events they planned this evening, Poppy.
HARLOW: Deb, I like Ed Norton about ten times more now that I did before, and I liked him already. I mean, what a great message. He is saying like we the celebrities aren't who should be celebrated. It should be the people celebrated tonight. Here hear to that. Thank you, Deb.
FEYERICK: Yes, here hear. Of course.
HARLOW: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:11] HARLOW: All right. We want to take you back to the red carpet as we count down to tonight's tenth annual CNN Heroes tribute. Ten honorees featured tonight have a diverse slate of projects helping people all across the board.
And look who I have with me. The glorious Brooke Baldwin. The glorious Edie Falco.
Brooke, you are looking smoking tonight, my friend. You, too, Edie. Thank you for being with us.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: Of course.
BALDWIN: Thank you so much. It is nice to kind of get fancy we saw often and have a little bit of fun, but also just be so incredibly inspired. And have the waterproof makeup situation happening.
Edie Falco, ladies and gentlemen. IT such pleasure to meet you.
EDIE FALCO, ACTRESS: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you for stopping by. You know, we are all about to honor ten extraordinary humans and walk out of here with tears, happy tears.
FALCO: No doubt.
BALDWIN: Why is this special for you? Why do you want to be involved?
You know, we could use a little inspiration all the time, but particularly now. People who are, you know, living from their higher selves, shall we say, doing things that aren't necessarily supported all around them. But they are finding out what's needed and stepping into it. And I need to see some of that, you know. We all have the capacity, but you know, it is not always what you hear about.
BALDWIN: Absolutely. And also I can get to the holidays, and people worried about gifts and this and that. And it is the intangible.
FALCO: For sure.
BALDWIN: And we need to be reminded about.
FALCO: For sure. They are the greatest gifts. But they really are.
BALDWIN: Who are you most excited to see? Have you familiarized yourself with any of the heroes?
FALCO: Well, yes. I mean, I'm a huge fan of CNN.
BALDWIN: Thank you very much.
FALCO: She didn't ask me to say that. I started seeing the profiles. So you know, each one is more exciting and more moving than the next.
BALDWIN: Kids in need and --
FALCO: The guy that breaks up when he says, this is what I meant to do.
BALDWIN: The single fathers.
FALCO: Yes. It is a whole thing. They are all beautiful and they are all inspiring.
BALDWIN: Last question. Such a simple one, but why is it important to give back?
FALCO: I don't know. Maybe that's why we're all here. I mean, I think we are really here to help each other. I don't think -- we weren't put here by ourselves. I think there is plenty of help to be had if you just look around you. And it is just - it is not something you see enough of. To see things like this and see people who do it as a matter of course reminds you that not only helps other people but it makes you feel great.
BALDWIN: Amen.
FALCO: Amen.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
FALCO: Pleasure.
BALDWIN: I will see you in the big fancy room in just a couple of minutes. This thing is starting, Poppy. Looking -- I'm cheating. But we are
about what, 25 minute away from the beginning of this beautiful, beautiful performance and ceremony honoring these ten extraordinary people. I know you'll be dashing up the street for it.
HARLOW: I will.
BALDWIN: But also just been. So what's been great to watch is just how the heroes get to know one other, right. They come from such different parts around the country and the world. And to watch them come together, inspire one another, I think one woman said it best. She said it is just so reinforcing of the work we do and how there's so much more to be done.
HARLOW: And I love, Brooke, how Edie Falco put it, living from their higher selves. I mean, that says it all. If he could all do that, what an even more beautiful world this would be. I can't wait for tonight.
Have fun. You look lovely. I will see you in about 30 minutes.
BALDWIN: See you soon.
HARLOW: Bye.
Quick break. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:38:11] HARLOW: President-elect Donald Trump says the offers for big business deals keep pouring in even though he takes the oath of office in 40 days. Here's what he told FOX News this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I turned down seven deals with one big player, great player, last week because I thought it could be perceived as a conflict of interest.
WALLACE: But will your --?
TRUMP: It was probably a billion of deals that I turned down.
WALLACE: But if your kids do it, isn't it going to be the same thing?
TRUMP: No, it is totally different. They are not president. I mean, they are not president. But they are not going to do it either. I see what you're getting at. No, they are not making deals either for my company.
WALLACE: Right.
TRUMP: They're not making deals. And they are going to run my company. I have a lot of property and great stuff. They are going to run it. Hopefully, they are going to run it properly. I'm sure they're going to run it properly. But I'm not going to do deals. And I think, you know, I think that's going to be good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Trump is scheduled to hold a press conference this Thursday to explain how he plans to distance himself from his many business ties, which span at least 150 companies in 25 countries.
Let's bring back my panel. Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord and Ryan Lizza, a journalist for the "New Yorker." Thank you guys both for being here.
All right, Ryan, so I don't think any cable network is going to carry that press conference live, but just in case they do, do you think there is anything that Donald Trump can say to satisfy the critics of his business ties, to satisfy those that are skeptical that he can actually distance himself enough?
LIZZA: Yes, absolutely. I mean, if you talk to any ethics lawyer, and the two famous ones that have been in the media a lot, one from the Obama White House and one from Bush White House, they have been very vocal and very clear that the one way he can deal with these conflicts of interest issues and put them behind him and just focus on being president is divest of all of these assets that present a conflict right now, and put the proceeds of the divestments into a blind trust. A true blind trust run by an independent person picked by someone in the government.
That's how everyone below president and vice president does it. It is no secret. It's been done for years. That's how a lot of his incoming cabinet secretaries, that's what they are going to have to do. Anything short of that will create, at the very least, an appearance of conflict of interest going forward. So that's the test by which the ethics experts are watching this.
[19:40:52] HARLOW: Right. So on that point, he came out within the last week and said, look, I sold all my stocks back in June. One interesting thing that my colleague (INAUDIBLE) at CNN money points out that is we don't know what he's done with his investments in different hedge funds such as one - such as (INAUDIBLE) Hedge fund. We just don't know. And that's also important. It is not as widely reported but we're going to have to know all of that. And hopefully we will get some clarity on that on Thursday.
Jeffrey, as you well know, during the campaign, the president-elect hammered his opponent, Hillary Clinton, over the Clinton foundation, alleging pay to play. Here's a reminder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is impossible to figure out where the Clinton foundation ends and the state department begins. It is now abundantly clear that the Clintons set up a business to profit from public office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Profiting from public office. That was his assertion. And he argues, my situation is totally different. How so?
LORD: The first part of what he said there was that they set up a business to profit from public office. Donald Trump's business was set up decades and decades ago.
HARLOW: So that makes a material difference if anyone does it? I'm confused.
LORD: Well, yes. Poppy, I think one of the things we have to be very careful here -- and I mentioned the words --
LIZZA: The Clinton foundation started before she was secretary of state though, Jeffrey. The Clinton foundation was set up before she was secretary of state.
LORD: She was a sitting United States senator. One of the problems we have here is the political class versus the rest of us. And I think we have got to be very careful about eliminating people from public service because they have come through the private sector and never served in public office.
To be very candid, this kind of thing has happened before. Nobody went after President Kennedy because his family owned the merchandise mart in Chicago. As a matter of fact, he appointed the head of the merchandise Mart (INAUDIBLE) to be the head of first the Peace Corps and then later the war on poverty, I guess with LBJ. And eventually ambassador to France. Nobody said a word about the Kennedys' interest in this. And my point is I don't think they should have.
HARLOW: Here's a question to you --
LORD: Just because Kennedy held office doesn't mean --
HARLOW: It is different. And look, I hear you. You know, business acumen and business expertise is a very valuable tool. My question is though, when you have your hand in more than 150 different businesses truly around the world, also by the way, you know, businesses and business relationships in very -- countries in a complicated relationship with t United States right now, such as Turkey, such as Saudi Arabia, that is different, Jeffrey, no?
LORD: Well, the thing is, why don't we apply these standards to the political class. Let me give you an example from the Obama administration. Barack Obama came, as we well know, came up through Chicago, the Chicago politics. He was elected a state senator from Illinois and then a United States senator from Illinois. When he is president of the United States, all of a sudden, he hops on air force one and flies to somewhere in Europe to try and get the Olympics to go to Chicago. Now, is that a conflict of interest? I mean, we don't think of it that way.
LIZZA: Jeffrey, come on! Jeffrey, that is not a conflict of interest. Jeffrey, that is the --
HARLOW: It is different. LIZZA: Jeffrey, try harder here. Come on, buddy. That is the
president of the United States bringing the Olympics to the United States.
LORD: No, he wasn't bringing it to help, it was to Chicago.
LIZZA: Last time I checked, Jeffrey, Chicago was still part of the United States. What was his stake in the Olympics? Jeffrey, what was his financial stake?
LORD: Whether he gets (INAUDIBLE). What -- are you kidding me? That's not hard to figure out.
LIZZA: Jeffrey, come on. This is beneath you, Jeffrey. Honestly, we are talking about the president-elect. We are talking about an unprecedented situation where he has businesses all over the world. Just from --
LORD: It's not --
[19:45:00] LIZZA: Jeffrey, just from a political perspective, forget about the conflicts of interest, right. Forget about the fact that he could be profiting from his service, which is very clear to me. Just politically, do you want him to have to deal with the headaches of the press and people like me every single day --?
LORD: No.
LIZZA: -- pointing out --
LORD: Quite candidly, no.
LIZZA: -- there is another conflict of interest here?
LORD: No. Because --
LIZZA: Can't he put this behind him?
LORD: Ryan, quick candidly no. Because I know how Washington works. But what I'm suggesting is no matter what he does, they are going to come down on him like a ton of bricks because this is what they do. This is their own conflict of interest here. They did on conflict. They profit it.
LIZZA: And sometimes they will be right. When the president has a business interest in a country and he affects policy in the country --
LORD: What about the political interest?
LIZZA: We will look and say, wait a second, this policy could benefit his business. He's going to have to deal with that with every foreign policy move he makes.
HARLOW: So on that point, Jeffrey Lord, what do you want to hear the president-elect come out and say, if you don't want to deal with headache a la Ryan Lizza, who will deliver them as he promised there, what do you want to hear the president-elect say then?
LORD: I mean, my personal opinion, I'm guessing he probably turn this over to his kids and let them do it.
HARLOW: The only issue with that is it's become very clear that they, especially Ivanka and Jared Kushner not only have his ear but likely will be advising him on some very big. And Jared Kushner possibly working in the White House if they can pass (INAUDIBLE).
LORD: So we have to put his kids out of business because they're running his business and he is president? I mean, that makes no sense on the face of it. Jared Kushner is well qualified to be a White House aide to his father-in-law. Absolutely. I personally would hope that he --
HARLOW: Final thought, Ryan.
LIZZA: Look. The key question is what are his own stake in the companies if he does turns everything over and has no longer has any stake in the Trump organization and it is fully in his children's control. Then what needs to be done according to the ethics lawyers is there needs to be a serious fire wall between his kids and himself. And I don't -- you know, I personally don't know how that would work. But that's what would have to be.
But the first step would be he has to give up all control. And already, we have seen this week he's not giving up his stake in the "Apprentice." So that is clearly not -- he's not taking the advice of the U.S. government's office of ethics.
HARLOW: Jeffrey Lord and Ryan Lizza, got to go. Thank you.
LIZZA: Thanks, Poppy.
HARLOW: See you soon.
LORD: Thanks, Ryan.
LIZZA: Thank you, Jeff.
HARLOW: The press conference will be live on Thursday on CNN.
Stay right there. We will be back. We are going to take you back to CNN Heroes: all-star tribute. On the red carpet, our Deborah Feyerick is live there.
FEYERICK: And Poppy, we are looking at an empowering evening, as anticipation builds to see who will be the winning of the 2016 hero of the year.
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[19:51:50] HARLOW: We are minute as away from the tenth annual CNN Heroes all-star tribute.
Tonight, one of those ten honorees will be named hero of the year. They will get $100,000 to continue their life changing work.
Our Deborah Feyerick has been on the red carpet all evening. She joins me now.
What has it been like there, Deb, tonight? It's been incredible just from my vantage point. All the people that have come through.
FEYERICK: Absolutely. It is such an inspiring night. And you really get a sense that one individual can create an entire community. And that this event is really about embracing the greater humanity with individuals just making a difference in the lives of children, in the lives of the elderly, in the lives of people with disabilities. And that was just so extraordinary.
As we spoke to people on the red carpet, Idina Menzel, Edward Norton, and seeing their perspective. You know, Edward Norton so brilliantly summing it up saying, you know, it is these people who really deserve the honors and the accolades because they're the ones who really make the world a better place. And you really get a sense of that.
HARLOW: Tell us about some of these honorees tonight.
FEYERICK: They're remarkable. There's one woman that left her day job here in New York. She is now working in Kenya, bringing medicine and healthcare to people on the borders of Somalia where it is really dangerous.
There is from Columbia. He has cerebral palsy and he is now reaching out to other children. He was told his mother was told at birth he wouldn't amount to anything. He studies in law school.
You have people who are working with foster kids, foster kids who haven't been adopted. Setting up homes for them. So they really feel that they are part of something bigger and that feel they matter and that they deserve respect like any other person. And that's what is so powerful about this event.
These people, making a real difference. You have got ten incredible honorees. One of them, of course, will be the honoree of the year. But all of them have made a difference. It is not just these ten. It is hundreds of others who applied. They, too, are making an equal difference.
HARLOW: I can't wait to see it. Deb, thank you so much for bringing it to us all night long. Pretty remarkable people.
FEYERICK: Of course.
HARLOW: Who all deserve our deep gratitude. You won't want to miss this incredible night. Tonight, live, CNN Heroes, an all-star tribute, 8:00 p.m. right here.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:57:49] HARLOW: Tonight in our America, in these days of division, it is pretty easy to overlook all of the good that is being done to help our fellow Americans. So we want to focus on random acts of kindness and compassion and caring each night a little bit on this show.
Tonight, one of those things that truly change a family's life for the better. Amanda and Clint Cofed and their four little kids live near Boise, Idaho. Amanda was diagnosed with stage three lymphoma. And without health insurance, they suddenly face a mountain of bills. So an Internet group called the pranksters, known for their feel good You Tube videos, organized an incredibly generous flash mob at this coffee shop. Amanda and Clint thought they were shooting a thank you video for gofundme page and then this happened.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
HARLOW: One by one, hundreds of people, friends and strangers, in a line that stretched out the door and around the block, laying $100 bills on Amanda and Clint's table.
The flash mob raised more than $13,000 and because of that, Amanda can now afford to start her cancer treatment immediately, rather than delay it one more day.
Pretty incredible, folks. This is what is happening in our America every single day. Let's put it on the screen, guys. Let's show people how they can help. You can donate to Amanda and her family. Go to gofundme.com/amandacofoed. Again, gofundme.com/amandacofed.
Coming up next on CNN, it is the tenth annual CNN Heroes all-star tribute, hosted by our very own Anderson Cooper and special co-host Kelly Ripka. You will hear incredible stories of tonight's honorees and find out who has been selected as the hero of the year.
I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.
Goodnight.
