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Theresa May's Brexit Deal Suffers Another Huge Defeat; Second Flight Attendant Union Calls for Grounding Max 8 Jets; U.S. Regulators Resist Call to Ground Boeing Max 8; U.S. Pulls Out Remaining Staff as Blackout Deepens Desperation in Venezuela; Cheney Rips Pence, Compares Trump Foreign Policy to Obama. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 12, 2019 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But essentially the message is here is that they are not buying her deal and that means, where do we go from here? It means that tomorrow there's going to be another vote in the House of Commons to try and see whether MPs want to eliminate the idea of taking -- eliminate a no-deal Brexit. So the idea of taking a hard Brexit by which the U.K. would leave the EU. Cut its trading ties with the EU without any kind of preferential treatment and transition period or that they would like to take off the table.

Interestingly enough in just the last few minutes, we've also heard a statement from Theresa May responding to this second defeat she's had over this so-called meaningful vote, Brooke. Saying that instead of actually telling her own party MPs how to vote, i.e. to whip them, she is going to allow them to have a free vote on this issue.

Now that could mean a couple of things. One, she doesn't want any resignations from her already weakened cabinet. But also it could mean that at this point Theresa May doesn't really have enough command over her own MPs, and it's not worth her putting in the political capital to try and tell them how to vote after being weakened so much through these last two votes -- Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All the way this deadline, March 29th, inching closer and closer and closer. Nina dos Santos in London. Nina, thank you.

Still ahead here, back home, former Vice President Dick Cheney confronting the current Vice President Mike Pence over foreign policy. What was supposed to be a quiet retreat for Republican insiders. Why Cheney compared the current President to Barack Obama.

[15:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: As U.S. airlines and Boeing are trying to calm major concern about the Boeing 737 Max 8, a second flight attendant union is calling for the aircraft to be grounded after Sunday's deadly crash. Moments ago the European Union suspended all flights of the Boeing Max planes. Several other countries have also grounded the jets after all 157 people were killed on that Ethiopian Airlines flight. That is not the story, though, for us here in the United States. Three major airlines continue to fly the Max 8 jet, and then the Max 9, as well. CNN's Martin Savidge turn just spoke with a number of passengers as they landed there at Hartsfield Jackson in Atlanta. And so, what do they have to say, Martin?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brooke. Yes, we talked to these passengers, they had been on a Max 8 that had flown from Las Vegas to Atlanta. Everyone that we spoke to said they were well aware of the two tragic and fatal plane crashes. But many of them said they were not aware that they themselves were flying on the same kind of aircraft until they were on board the airplane and actually seated in their seats. They heard many of them say by the word of mouth from fellow passengers or they saw those emergency seat placards you that will find in the back of the seat in front of you that identifies the aircraft. And some passengers said it didn't bother them. Others say that's when the anxiety really kicked in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And as soon as we get on, the lady next to me said, there is the same plane that crashed. We're like, OK. She said, are we safe? The flight attendant said, well, I wouldn't be on here if it wasn't safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the FAA's a good organization. Other countries I don't know how their safety boards are. So I have faith in the FAA, Southwest Airlines.

SAVIDGE: You'll keep flying the same plane?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that's what I leave on tomorrow to go to Dallas, that's what I'll get on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would think twice and I'd try to see if I could change. And I know that I probably will have huge anxiety.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Now there were a number of passengers that said had they known in advance that they were going to be flying on a Max 8, they would have changed their plans. And say they'll be much more careful to try to note the identifier of the aircraft. It should be pointed out that in the U.S., at least currently, there are at least 70 Max 8s flying on domestic airlines which means every day thousands of passengers in the U.S. are flying on a Max 8, whether they know it or not -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yep. All you have to do, you have to go on line, look ahead what kind of make and model of the plane is. If you are nervous about flying these particular planes. Martin Savidge in Atlanta. Martin, thank you.

Today we learned that the pilots of the doomed Ethiopian Airlines flight told air traffic control that they were, quote/unquote, having flight control problems moments before the plane crashed. Nawal Taneja is an aviation business strategist who's toured the European Airlines Flight Academy. And so, sir, welcome. Thank you for joining me.

Thank you, Brooke.

If you, sir, were advising Boeing, what would you say to them? Because the one just overarching question is, well why not ground them just out of an abundance of caution?

NAWAL TANEJA, TOURED ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES' PILOT TRAINING ACADEMY: Well, it's too early to tell exactly what happened with that particular airplane or, for that matter, even too early for the definitive conclusions on the Indonesia flight. But in general, the planes, these planes are very safe. And all this automation that has gone into it, the idea is to increase the safety of margin. From my perspective I have no hesitancy in flying on that airplane -- I mean, as a passenger, not as a pilot. I'm not a pilot. Flying on the airplane right now. I have followed the development of the airplane. I have followed the certification process. And I followed the operation with the airlines.

[15:40:00] And at the moment, the challenge is to determine as quickly as possible what exactly did happen.

BALDWIN: Nawal, tell me this. Because you know this better than most. You know, what conversations are happening right now behind the scenes between government officials and the airline? I mean, how much power would Boeing have in Washington that it would play into the conversations?

TANEJA: Well, grounding the aircraft this early at this rapid rate seems to be a little bit perhaps premature because the answers are not there as to what exactly happened. But one of other questions that's been raised, is are the airplanes, is there too much automation in the airplanes?

BALDWIN: Do you think there is? Because that was part of -- I mean, the President -- let me read the President's tweet today. Because this is part of his point.

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further when often old and simpler is far better. Split-second decisions are needed.

And he goes on. But I think his point is, to your point, it's so complex, it's automated, and would you agree?

TANEJA: Well interesting you mention MIT. I was a graduate student and professor there for a long time, too. There's a lot of automation going on in airplanes. Both Airbus and Boeing. And there are many reasons why they're doing it. One is to increase the margin of safety. Two is to reduce the operating costs in terms of fuel efficiency and where the airplane flies and how they change and so forth. Three is to improve customer service in terms of being able to handle situations in turbulence, so it's a little bit more comfortable for an airplane. So the automation is not the problem. I think the challenge is that

are we training our pilots to be able to understand the role of this automation. Not just flying airplanes, of course pilots have already been told -- shown and educated on how to fly airplanes. Now the big issue is with that much automation going into it, do they have sufficient training to understand the role of technology. And the word emphasis here is on the understanding, not just if this happens do this.

What is happening is that when something is not going right, many of the pilots are trying to figure out what happened. You have very limited time to make a decision. So where we're going to go in the future is to try to find out what is the optimal level of training and understanding we can give the pilot so they can handle the situations. The airplanes are almost digital, data is coming from everywhere. So that's what we need to do is to be able to train them and show them the role of technology so they understand how to deal with it.

BALDWIN: We'll end with that point. Nawal Taneja, thank you so much.

TANEJA: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Right now, actress Lori Loughlin of "Full House" fame, on a plane from shooting a movie in Canada to Los Angeles where a law enforcement source tells CNN she will turn herself in after being charged with a felony as part of a massive college entrance cheating scandal. Stay here.

[15:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The situation in Venezuela has gotten so bad that the United States is now pulling out all remaining American personnel from the South American nation amid looting and protests. The nation's failed economy is expected to hit 10 million percent inflation this year. Now there is a widespread power outage that is deepening the desperation. Venezuelans have no running water. Because pumps rely on electricity and they can't refrigerator already low food supplies. And most critically, hospitals cannot power equipment needed to keep people including infants alive.

CNN's Patrick Oppmann is live in the capital of Caracas where more protests are expected this afternoon. And so, Patrick, you've been reporting on parents so desperate that they are abandoning their own children. Tell me what you're seeing.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It teams unimaginable, Brooke. But of course, as you know, the blackout is just the latest hit for Venezuelans that they are suffering from. They've had hyperinflation, the falling price of oil, a government that has divided the people, millions have fled to other countries. And as those people have fled, many times they cannot take their children with them, so they try to leave them with relatives or friends who are now having the problem that they cannot afford to feed them. So we went to one orphanage that has 25 kids. And they say they are

no longer accepting anymore because they don't have enough food. The kids only get meat every other day, no fruit or vegetables anymore. They are struggling to feed these kids.

We went to a soup kitchen that said two years ago they served 20 kids a day in just one location, now they're up to 600 a day. They say every day they run out of food before they run out of kids coming to ask for a meal. They say that is the only meal they will get each day they come. And now that we have the blackout, it just made this crisis even more dire.

The U.S. embassy is pulling out in part, they said, the diplomats, because finding food, finding water, finding gasoline for the generators has just become impossible. You know, we are here, it's difficult to operate. And of course, as a journalist, foreign journalist, we have all the resources in the world.

[15:50:00] A Venezuelan person here goes into a food market here and perhaps one bag of groceries is more than they make in a month. So this is adding an extreme amount of misery already on to a very, very serious situation here.

BALDWIN: Patrick Oppmann on the worsening humanitarian crisis there in Venezuela. Stay on it for us, Patrick. Thank you for being there.

Meantime, here at home, Dick Cheney is back in the news in a big way. Details on what started as a friendly exchange between the former Vice President and the current Vice President, ending in an aggressive attack.

[15:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A private retreat hosted by a conservative think tank was supposed to be a nice conversation between two Republican vice presidents, current VP Mike Pence, former VP Dick Cheney. And there to witness this historic moment was a room full of prominent GOP operatives and donors. But according to CNN sources who attended this event and was first reported by "The Washington Post", something went awry. Dick Cheney really asking some tough questions of Pence putting him in the hot seat over Trump's foreign policy.

Everything from President Trump's aggression from NATO, to his decisions regarding North and South Korea. To his desire to withdraw troops from Syria. Mr. Cheney even likened to Trump's policies to that of former President Obama.

Cheney's scrolling of Pence was so intense that at one-point Pence joked awkwardly, who wrote these softball questions. Susan Glasser is our CNN global affairs analyst and staff writer at the "New Yorker". And, Susan, does Dick Cheney have a point?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I'm sorry wasn't there to see this extraordinary clash of the VP's. First of all, I think one thing that's notable is that, obviously, Vice President Cheney knew exactly what he was doing. Right. You don't do that in front of a room full of 300 people and not expect it to get out. So I think it's quite significant that he was making a point as you noted in front of a room full of Republican prominent donors, foreign policy thinkers, officials, current and former.

So again, this was a very, I think, barb exchange that the vice president wanted us to hear about, number one. Number two, it underscores the extent to which this rift inside the Republican party in particular over President Trump's disruptive foreign policy. Is something that has been papered over but it's never gone away. Remember that the vast majority of Republican elected officials essentially tend to agree more with Vice President Cheney's view of the world. They have been left kind of bullfight told and hornswoggled by the President's attacks on allies repeatedly. His kind words for dictatorships around the world and not really sure what to make of the foreign policy. And that goes, by the way, for many senior officials in Trumps own government.

BALDWIN: Can we also two steps back, you know, gut check. Former Vice President Dick Cheney, Iraq war, WMDs -- is he someone, no matter the party, whose credibility on foreign policy should be questioned?

GLASSER: Well that's right. I was imagining many liberals reading this news yesterday and screaming silently into their pillows saying like, wait a minute. Am I agreeing with Dick Cheney? Again, I wasn't there and haven't been able to read the full transcript. But I don't think that he was challenging the Trump administration on, you know, military deployment around the world per se as much as questioning some of the foreign policy decisions.

So, you know, Cheney, obviously, is at the extreme hawkish end. And I think it's fair to say that Americans in both political parties, Democrats and Republicans, have soured on American military involvement overseas in the wake of that Iraq invasion. There's been a pretty decisive shift across that political spectrum of people who don't agree with Dick Cheney.

But the critique that he was making which really had to do with the conduct of the Trump administration foreign policy. Right. It had to do with the treatment of allies and whether the president is really engaging with his intelligence agencies. Whether he basically has a reality-based foreign policy. That scenario when there's probably broader consensus then on what some object Cheney's policy prescriptions might be.

BALDWIN: Yes, and to the last point, I think it's just important to reiterate to everyone, "The Post" is also saying former Vice President Cheney is upset with Trump that he is not meeting intel officials or often disagrees with them or perhaps he is hoping that this current vice President perhaps tries to change that. Susan Glasser, I think your point is excellent about all these people there and knowing it would eventually get out.

Thank you for being with me. And next let's go to Washington and to someone's big, big birthday today. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.