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CNN International: New Zealand Mosque Attacks Suspect Appears in Court; Muslim Community Reacts to New Zealand Massacre; More Than 15 Nationalities in Targeted Mosques; Yellow Vest Protesters Clash with Police; Manifesto Mailed to New Zealand Prime Minister Minutes before Attack; Social Media Struggle to Remove New Zealand Attack Video. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 16, 2019 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kristie Lu Stout, live in Christchurch New Zealand.

It was an act of terror. It was an act of hate targeting Muslim worshippers. In the end, a mass shooting, the worst in this country's history, taking the lives of 49 people; 20 people in critical condition in hospital. Lives still hanging in the balance, including that of a 4-year-old girl in critical condition because of her gunshot wounds.

We're learning more about the suspect. He appeared in court today. The suspected attacker made his first court appearance. He's an Australian national, 28-year-old. Brenton Tarrant is charged with murder. Additional charges may come.

This as investigators pore over his hate-filled manifesto that he initially posted on 8chan and later was available on Twitter. He emailed it, in fact, to the office of the New Zealand prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, before launching his attacks on the mosques around 1:40 pm in the afternoon on Friday.

I'm joined by a resident of Christchurch, Deepak Sharma.

Deepak, thank you so much for joining us this day. And my sympathies to you and everyone in the community here. You are an immigrant and a proud New Zealander.

DEEPAK SHARMA, CHRISTCHURCH RESIDENT: Yes, I am.

STOUT: You have been living here 10 years.

How do you feel when an attack like this takes place and tries to destroy your community?

SHARMA: Well, it's a very gruesome atrocity that took place on Friday. There is no way to describe this act of terror. I guess people just need to come together and against this hate and to make sure that we are one nation, all the different cultures. But that is the key point here. It is unity and diversity.

STOUT: Yes.

SHARMA: That's the message we need to spread from here. But the lives that were lost were not only 49 people but also 49 families.

STOUT: Absolutely, devastated families. And the xenophobic nature of attack, we saw the manifesto of the suspected gunman and terrorist. He called immigrants like yourself "invaders."

How does that make you feel when you hear something like that?

SHARMA: Well, it hurts. It hurts. A person like me who has been here for the last 10 years, after giving my sweat, life, blood, everything here, if I'm still seen as an invader, I don't know where I should call myself a home.

Yes, I guess when a person decide to move overseas to call a new place his home, people need to understand they're leaving the luxuries all there, the families, friends, all those memories they spent all their life. They're leaving everything behind for a search of a new place where you can make a new home there.

When you are going to be there, settle there and someone going to do like this and call you an invader, well, that hurts.

STOUT: All the people forget that the story of migration is a story of survival and a story of hope.

SHARMA: I guess New Zealand has been a land of immigration since years. The only difference is that we are (INAUDIBLE) to the people who came here years earlier. I guess that's the only difference.

And I was thinking all night, what is an immigrant?

We all are immigrants in this whole world. We all are going to leave sooner or later.

STOUT: Your thoughts about how New Zealand and the community here at Christchurch as responded.

SHARMA: I was touched. I was here with my wife yesterday. So we spent a good three, four hours over there. Everyone was in tears. Everyone was shedding the tears. It was very touching to see them. I guess -- we haven't been close enough after this attack but that's not the right time to get together.

I guess we should have been together since ages. But it is the one offense then I hope won't happen again and we will be together again.

STOUT: Do you feel the terror attack, as horrible and devastating as it was, has brought your community closer together?

SHARMA: Yes, yes. I guess it will be test of time and your loyalty here and your support of your community is only tested when you are going to face a time like this. Yes, we have passed the test so far. Everyone was together yesterday. Everyone was coming.

It was really hard for parents to explain to their younger ones what happened and what to learn from here. I guess that will make the difference.

STOUT: And Christchurch has been through testing times before, right?

SHARMA: Yes.

STOUT: Ten years ago you experienced the earthquake. You were here.

SHARMA: Yes, I was here.

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STOUT: And, yet, you love Christchurch. You will stay in Christchurch.

SHARMA: Yes. This is our home. So we're not going to move anywhere from here. But I guess the only thing is this is polarization. People need to understand that this is not just starting in a day. There are wars and ideology that keep running on and on. When some of the parties make statements, like just choose some borders for polarization, I'm not sure where it started from, probably the U.S. because they got influence over the rest of the world.

It started probably from there or from somewhere but it is out there. We used to listen to the media. It happened in the U.S., Canada. But it was not in my wildest dreams it was going to happen right here in Christchurch close to my place. That was very gruesome.

STOUT: But this response is so special and so beautiful. Deepak, I'm going to have to leave it at that. Thank you so much for joining us. Great to hear that you will stay.

Deepak was mentioning just the ideology, the anti-immigrant ideology that was expressed in this suspect's manifesto that was posted on 8chan, circulated on Twitter and on other platforms. Of course it has been well reported how the attack itself was livestreamed on Facebook.

Even though Facebook took it off its platform, it is already out there for the world to see. Let's focus more on the tech angle with my colleague, Salma Abdelaziz, who joins us from London.

Salma, it's not just a Facebook problem. It is a big tech problem and social media problem.

Why is it that when they have all the algorithms, all the human moderators and all the technology, that they can't take this despicable content down?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: That's absolutely right. As you said, it is usually human moderators and AI online and it is simply not working. Watching this attack unfold was like watching some dystopia of technology gone terribly wrong. We know the attacker spent two years planning this massacre and it

seems that much of that planning was centered around social media. Everything from the manifesto to the video to the phrases he uttered were meant to be shareable, something that would spread online at a rate that tech giants simply couldn't stop in time.

He began by posting pictures online hours before of his weapons with memes and tropes scrawled all over the guns. Then came that 87-page hate-filled manifesto, full, again, of references to Internet subculture. After that, 17 horrific minutes of murder broadcast on Facebook live via body camera.

Again, that choice of a body camera is significant. It was meant to look like a first-person shooter-style video. Now as you said, Facebook said they acted quickly to take it down. But it wasn't quick enough.

A day and a half after the attack, I could still easily find that video on YouTube, on Twitter and, even now, I can go online and find people who are glorifying, even uttering the same phrases he shared in that video.

And now the question is that these groups that once existed in the fringes of the Internet, in some form, in the dark web, now that they're in the mainstream, how can they tackle them?

How can they stop this message of hate?

STOUT: It's an open-ended question, whether it's -- they need to better police themselves or more regulations. This is definitely open for discussion. Salma, we thank you for that forensic analysis of technology's role in fueling the hatred behind the attack.

Joining me now is Alexandra Field, who has been in Christchurch, focusing on the story of the survivors, the people that were there.

They were witness to terror and they managed to survive.

What did they tell you?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they describe a scenario that we can very easily imagine of sitting in their mosques, mosques they had attended for years with members of their community and suddenly either seeing people running and ducking or hearing those initial shots fired.

We know in these cases there is that moment of total confusion. They described a flurry of shots, people running in different directions. I spoke to two men who talked about just trying to save their lives, trying to protect others.

One man was able to jump out a window and get outside, another who stayed inside and witnessed the horror as it unfolded. It is hard to imagine, 41 people killed in one of the mosques, seven in another and we're learning now a little bit more about the people who were actually inside, the ones who didn't make it out.

STOUT: And as you point out, this took place in a mosque, in a place of worship. It should have been a safe place, a place for contemplation. And in New Zealand, no less. These are individuals who are immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers. Tell us more about where they come from.

FIELD: And the prime minister here --

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FIELD: -- Jacinda Ardern, was really quick to point that out. New Zealand is a country that has such a tiny Muslim population, about 1 percent. She was quick to say that many of the people that were going to be victims of this attack would have been migrants, would have been refugees, who came here looking for a safer place or a better life.

I spoke to one man from Afghanistan. He had family members who were here as well. He said he left a country that was gripped by war to come to a place he thought he would be safe.

I spoke to another man from Saudi Arabia, who said he came here for the opportunity to pursue his PhD.

The victims in this attack came from so many different countries, were compelled to come here. All of them felt that their safety was all but guaranteed in this country, if in any country, really.

STOUT: How is this event going to change Christchurch?

We spoke to Deepak Sharma, himself an immigrant, who has been here for 10 years. He said, of course, I'm going to stay. I love Christchurch. He says this is an event, despite how horrific it was, has brought the community closer together.

Is that what you're hearing also from survivors and members of the community here?

FIELD: We are seeing people who are immediately coming out and showing support. Because the Muslim community here is so small, you are seeing so many who live in the area, saying they want to come forward and publicly show they are standing with Muslim members of the community, who have made New Zealand their home.

What's really interesting here is, in the United States, where we see mass shootings happen a lot, you will often hear in the immediate aftermath, you will hear politicians come on TV and say this is a time prayer and not really a time for politics.

What we saw here was a prime minister who came out very quickly and said the gun laws here will change. That was the commitment she made and that is certainly something we will have to watch in the days and weeks ahead.

STOUT: That prompted one online commentator, saying thoughts and prayers actually work in New Zealand because it has resulted in gun reform one day after this massacre. Alexandra Field, thank you so much.

We will continue our ongoing coverage of the aftermath of the terror attacks here in New Zealand. You are watching CNN. We'll be back right after this.

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STOUT: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the New Zealand terror attacks. I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Christchurch.

PAULINE CHIOU, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Pauline Chiou in New York. Here are the very latest developments.

The man accused of carrying out the mosque terror attacks made his first court appearance. Brenton Tarrant remained silent as he was charged with one count of murder. More charges will be filed later.

Two others are also in custody but their involvement in the attack remains unclear. We are learning that he emailed his manifesto to the prime minister's office minutes before the attack.

At least 49 people were killed and dozens more wounded in the shootings. Let's bring you up to date on other stories making news this hour.

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CHIOU: The so-called Yellow Vest protests in Paris have turned violent once again. French police fired tear gas and water cannons to disperse protesters, who shattered store windows and set a newspaper stand on fire.

This is the 18th consecutive Saturday of demonstrations against president Emmanuel Macron and his policies.

Joining us live from Paris is France 24 correspondent Catherine Norris-Trent.

Catherine, are tensions still high at this hour?

CATHERINE NORRIS-TRENT, FRANCE 24 CORRESPONDENT: Pauline, yes. The tensions are still running high here in parties. Riot police have been clashing with a hardcore of those demonstrator.

What is happening right now is that the riot police, several dozen of them here have pushed the rioters back up the avenue there towards the ark. They're trying to get them circled and push them up the streets.

Throughout this afternoon they have been firing several rounds of tear gas and stun grenades at them. The protesters or rioters have set fire and looted several shops here. We have seen luxury cars set fire, too. And one building went up in smoke, just a couple of blocks from here, which had a bank on the ground floor.

But people living inside upstairs and firefighters had to rescue a mother and a 9-month-old baby from that building. So very tense scenes indeed.

CHIOU: Not all protesters have the same agenda. Tell us about some of the groups there on the street and what they're demanding.

NORRIS-TRENT: Well, it's very difficult to get an overall feel of who exactly the Yellow Vest protesters are because it's been a grassroots movement without any official leadership. None has yet emerged that's proved a consensus at any rate.

So some of these protesters, it is thought to be hardcore rioters from anarchist groups, from far right-wing, left-wing groups who are unhappy at the political system in general. You have also got many other Yellow Vest demonstrators, who are anti-Emmanuel Macron, who really dislike him and everything he stands for, saying that he is a president of the rich only and that he doesn't represent them and that his tax policies are hitting them hard in the pocket.

And then you have got still other protesters, who have joined a huge climate march here in Paris. On the other side of town, many Yellow Vest protesters there, too, today marching peacefully, saying more needs to be done about climate change. So it is a really diverse scene and a really diverse group of protesters out on the streets.

CHIOU: Catherine Norris-Trent, thank you so much for bringing up to date on the situation in Paris.

Also high tensions in Venezuela, where the standoff continues there. On one side, President Nicolas Maduro and the Venezuelan military.

On the other, supporters of self-proclaimed interim president Juan Guaido. And caught in the middle, the people of Venezuela, facing shortages of food, water and power. Our Paula Newton joins us live now from Caracas.

Paula, on the political front -- you have been there for several weeks now.

Is either side gaining an upper hand?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I would say in my judgment not, in fact. We have settled into a many familiar pattern here. In the protests today, first we have the pro-government rally. Those supporting president Maduro are out on the street. And then there is Juan Guaido who has gone to Valencia, a couple of hours west of here, saying to people we need to try to keep the momentum of this opposition movement.

To do that, he says we need to get to every corner and crevice of the government. At this point in time, you even have U.S. officials acknowledging that, look, this could take some time in terms of getting to resolution. I will add that the last of the U.S. diplomats left on Thursday. That

means there is no diplomatic representation here from the U.S. and it's not certain whether or not that will also reach the United States in terms of trying to figure out what's going on on the ground here and really having any kind of a breakthrough.

I have to say that people here remain quite exhausted and they're quite in a fragile mood, only recovering in the last few days from those power shortages, which led to shortages of other basics like food, water, medicine.

CHIOU: The situation there continues. Thank you so much, Paula Newton, for bringing us up to date on the picture there on the ground.

Well, still ahead, the latest on Friday's terror attack in New Zealand and the accused gunman's manifesto.

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STOUT: I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Christchurch. Welcome back to our ongoing coverage of the terror attacks here in New Zealand.

Chilling new details about the suspect, his hateful manifesto he sent out before the shootings took place, which killed 49 people. This is what we learned. The prime minister's office said it received an email containing the suspect's manifesto just minutes before the attacks began on Friday afternoon.

The document was also posted on social media, on 8chan, on Twitter. Authorities have declined to discuss the gunman's motive for killing dozens of people in Christchurch in two separate mosques on Friday.

But the diatribe is filled with anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rants. Glenn Schoen joins me now from The Hague via Skype. He is a terror analyst.

Glenn, thank you for joining us. When the government of New Zealand is confronted with what happened on Friday and confronted with the threat posed by far right extremist hate, white supremacist hate, what can be done to combat it?

GLENN SCHOEN, TERRORISM EXPERT: Well, a whole number of things starting on the (INAUDIBLE) looking at home. The one -- I don't know if we call it an advantage here but, of course, this attack was essentially perpetrated by a foreigner, operating initially from foreign soil, coming to New Zealand and planning the attack there. Obviously, you don't want any form of repeat coming up there whatsoever, whether it's from somebody domestic or somebody foreign.

But I think for them, in essence, it's positive that this came from abroad rather than something from the inside or involved a big group of people from inside New Zealand.

Logically speaking, I think what we're going to see is a major effort now across the board, probably not just in New Zealand but other nations and I would assume perhaps Australia as well, where the full scale of looking at the preventive aspect of things, where we're bringing in everybody from community leaders, psychologists and teachers in terms of awareness about radicalization, whether it's radicalization for political extreme beliefs or other forms of radicalization, the work by law enforcement on the preventative side, to look at more monitoring capability and then moving on in the spectrum from there in terms of signaling and monitoring what's going on, on a daily basis.

STOUT: And in this day and age, radicalization can go viral. So what could be done to prevent a repeat attack, a copycat attack, inspired by the online manifesto or the atrocity livestreamed on Friday?

SCHOEN: Well, I think a number of things will happen. One is to look specifically at how did this unfold, who is this individual? His radicalization, moving into upcoming activity (ph) to whether people who actually tried to draw him into his beliefs, who reinforced these beliefs or who pushed him towards an action.

That's going to be a matter of analysis of a lot of things, his work history, his travel history, his personal history and, like you just mentioned, social media, everything virtual.

Within that virtual domain, there is an awful lot that can be done. But obviously it knows its limits as well. And I think New Zealand and perhaps other countries here will be looking at successful and programs where we don't yet know where they're very successful but which have been tried out in the past three or four years to counteract particularly jihadist extremism. That ranges from request more self-policing by the big companies, the Facebooks and the Twitters --

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SCHOEN: -- to what can law enforcement, what can the community do to early detect and intervene.

STOUT: Yes. And to address extremism in all its forms, you also need to identify its seductive appeal and how to get rid of that appeal, the seductive appeal of ISIS and white supremacists.

What makes this type of extremist thinking so alluring?

And how can we remove that allure?

SCHOEN: Well, I'm not sure I know how we can remove it but we have seen more successful programs, particularly such as that used by the British government. They know that this is particularly alluring because of the clarity it offers followers.

This is right. That is wrong. You are going to be supporting the proper group, so to speak. You are going to be supported by that group. We're going to take care of you, make you famous if you do an action that results in our cause being promoted.

So there is a lot of smaller things here, where people can feel they become part of a family, part of a community, part of a bigger vision that gives them direction in life. And in a lot of these aspects, that's appealing, of course, for people, particularly people who have issues, who may have had problems in their life, who may have some mental weakness of some form, who have not always had that warmth in a regular family or a regular community or have felt cut off and isolated.

So I think in a number of these areas, as you mentioned, it will be multifocal but we will look at moving that kind of program forward.

STOUT: Glenn Schoen, terror analyst, joining us from The Hague. Thank you so much for providing your analysis on the type of thinking fueling the hatred in the act of terror in Christchurch on Friday.

We're talking about the massacre of two mosques that took the lives of 49 people; 29 people in hospital in serious condition, their lives hanging in the balance, including the life of a four-year-old girl suffering from gunshot wounds. This is something that has been criticized and condemned the world over by political leaders, by religious leaders, to say that this is a symptom of hate, a symptom of xenophobia and Islamophobia and is something that cuts deeply into the heart of people here in New Zealand, a country long been known as a friendly destination, a country of tolerance and diversity.

As the prime minister Jacinda Ardern said, New Zealand, in the wake of this tragedy ,is going through its darkest days. I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Christchurch. We will continue our coverage ahead. You are watching CNN.