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Capitol Rioter Charged With Threatening to Assassinate Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY); Broadcasting Legend Larry King Dies at Age 87; Trump's Senate Impeachment Trial Delayed Until February; British P.M.: Variant First Detected In U.K. May Be More Deadly; NYT; Trump And DOJ Lawyer Said To Have Plotted To Oust Acting A.G., Overturn Georgia Election Results. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 23, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I am Ana Cabrera in New York.

We continue to follow breaking news this hour. A Texas man who allegedly participated in the Capitol riot is now charged with threatening to assassinate Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez.

Now, his lawyer is responding this afternoon. Let me bring in CNN's Jessica Schneider to talk more about this. Walk us through, Jessica, what we've learned about this man, the threats and the charges he now faces.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, this suspect has an extensive social media trail and that's what prosecutors have been tracking. And because of that, he's accused not only of posting death threats against AOC but threats also against a Capitol police officer. So prosecutors say it's Garrett Miller of Texas.

And when they looked at his social media, they saw that he had tweeted, quote, assassinate AOC, and he also said that the police officer who fatally shot that female Trump supporter inside the Capitol on January 6th, he said that she, quote, deserves -- that the officer, I should say, deserves to die and won't survive long because it's, quote, hunting season.

Now, officials say Miller did participate in this Capitol attack and then went on this online rant saying in one post, next time, we bring guns. So at this point, Garrett Miller is facing five federal criminal charges, including for his participation in the attack and, of course, those death threats.

Miller's attorney though, he is responding and he is saying this about his client. He's saying, he did it in support of former President Donald Trump but regrets his actions. He has the support of his family and a lot of the comments are viewed in context as really sort of misguided political hyperbole. Given the political divide these days, there is a lot of hyperbole. So the lawyer there really trying to excuse all of this rhetoric from this suspect out of Texas but this is yet another suspect who said that they were inspired by the president to attack the Capitol.

Now, Ana, at this point, more than 120 people have been charged and we're hearing that hundreds more could still be charged because prosecutors are really zeroing in on those people who have continued to evade law enforcement and we know that this next round of charges could be even more serious. They could include sedition and conspiracy. These are hefty charges which include hefty sentences of up to 20 years in prison.

So right now, Ana, investigators, prosecutors, they're combing through a lot more data trying to find out the people who, at this point, have just been a lot more unreachable than those just like this Garrett Miller out of Texas who have actually posted online. Now, the real work begins where they have to find people who haven't been up front about their role in this attack on January 6th. Ana?

CABRERA: Wow. The deeper we go, the more disturbing it all is. Jessica Schneider, thank you.

Other breaking news we continue to follow here at CNN, the death of legendary broadcaster and our much-loved CNN father figure, Larry King. He passed away this morning at a hospital in Los Angeles. He was 87 years old.

For 25 years, here on CNN, Larry King hosted the ground breaking CNN interview program that was synonymous with probing questions to people who moved the world and always with great humor and humanity. Tributes to Larry King from those who spent time with him have been pouring out, his legacy clearly touching so many lives.

This tweet from Bette Midler, he always made me feel as though I were the only person in the room, and this from former U.S. President Bill Clinton interviewed more than 20 times by Larry King, he had a great sense of humor and a genuine interest in people, farewell, my friend. And this from Larry's beloved Los Angeles Dodgers, tweeting out their condolences and a great picture, a true lifelong fan having the time of his life.

And I want to share with you the reflections of CNN's founder, Ted Turner, who released this statement a short time ago, waking up to the news of the passing of Larry King felt like a punch to the gut. Larry was one of my closest an dearest friends and, in my opinion, one of the greatest broadcast journalists of all time. I anyone asked me what are my greatest career achievements in life, one is the creation of CNN, the other is hiring Larry King.

Like so many who worked with and knew Larry, he was a consummate professional, an amazing mentor to many and a good friend to all. The world has lost a true legend.

Larry King had an exceptional ability to get celebrities to open up, including those who were usually not real comfortable sharing, including Robert De Niro. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, CNN FORMER HOST: Why do you generally resist talking about things?

ROBERT DE NIRO, OSCAR-WINNING ACTOR: I think it's --

KING: I've been trying 25 years. Why?

DE NIRO: I think it's easier in the movie, if I had my way, I'd just say, hopefully, you'd see the movie and that will be it.

[17:05:00]

KING: You don't like talking about your work?

DE NIRO: well, I don't mind maybe it's a little easier with the directing only because there's more to talk about. There's so many different aspects of it that you can talk about and, yes.

KING: Generally, it's difficult for you.

DE NIRO: I'm uncomfortable with it most of the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: With us now, two time Academy Award winner Robert De Niro. Thank you so much for joining us. What was your reaction when you learned of the passing of Larry King?

DE NIRO: Well, I was very sad because, over the years I've known Larry, we've run into each other here and there and I'd go to Friar's Club events and whenever I could, I'd make a joke about him and so on. And I just never thought he would -- I'm very sad that he passed away. He was like the kind of person you thought would live for a long, long time, if not, forever.

CABRERA: He was 87 years old, so he had a good long life, which is wonderful, but so hard to lose somebody, no matter his age, right?

DE NIRO: Yes. And he had a terrific sense of humor and he's a New Yorker, a certain kind of New Yorker that is, for me, easy to relate to.

CABRERA: I want to get your thoughts after I play another clip of your interview with Larry King. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You're all parents, the impact of what you do on your offspring, do you think it's great, Bob?

DE NIRO: Of course, yes.

KING: It affects their lives?

DE NIRO: It has, yes.

KING: There's a downside to that.

DE NIRO: Yes, sure. That's something that is -- it comes with the territory, and a double-edged sword.

KING: You're a father now, Matt, right? Five months, or six months old.

MATT DAMON, AMERICAN ACTOR: Yes, six months old, yes.

KING: They can't be raised normal, right, Bob, by our standards of what would be normal?

DE NIRO: Yes, I mean, they're not, they'll become aware of the attention that you get and then you would always hope that wherever they are, going to school, things like that, that people are sensitive to that, but you never know what people are going to say or do or what the parents say in front of other kids.

KING: Not easy.

DE NIRO: Not easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: What was it, Robert, about Larry King that just made it easier to open up to him on a wide variety of topics?

DE NIRO: He had a nice easy way, I mean, unassuming, unpretentious way about him that I think people just felt more easy to talk to him, as I did. He was a good guy, nice guy, and I didn't talk to him for many, many years. He'd ask me and I just was not -- I just didn't feel like doing it but I finally did because I've always liked him. I met him for dinner one night. We talked, just hanging out socially.

CABRERA: What was your resistance initially to talking with him?

DE NIRO: I don't know. I just -- many times, I just don't feel like talking, what are you going to say, whatever you say, somehow, it's going to turn out this way or that way or maybe not so good, so just not to say anything.

CABRERA: Right, because you obviously can -- I think I can relate to that feeling where you feel like your words are scrutinized, right?

DE NIRO: Yes or taken out of context or whatever, all that stuff. But he was -- I said, maybe one day, when we finally did, I did it The Good Shepherd with Angelina and Matt. And so I don't know if I did it any other time. I think that was the only time.

CABRERA: And how did it end up? When you ended up doing it, were your fears -- you know, did your fears come to fruition or was it a more positive experience than you

expected? DE NIRO: No, I had a nice time with him. He's -- Larry was fine. He was fine. I always liked him. You know, he's an easy person to talk to and he is respectful and he's not going to put you on the spot or anything. So --

CABRERA: I spoke with Billy Crystal last hour. He told me it was like talking to a relative when you spoke with Larry King. Did it feel that way to you?

DE NIRO: Yes, exactly. Yes.

CABRERA: I want to show some images of you at an awards ceremony.

[17:10:00]

This was in 2016. And the picture that we're about to put up, it's you and Tony Bennett and Larry King. My understanding is that you wound up singing with Larry King. What do you remember about that night with Larry or any other personal anecdotes you'd like to share?

DE NIRO: I don't remember that. Just show it to me, and I'll have to remember.

CABRERA: Well, it's a really lovely picture of the two of you. We know he's obviously touched so many lives. When you think back to his ability to communicate with you in person when he was interviewing you as a subject and then obviously his ability to communicate with the audience through these segments and interviews that he did, it's a different time then. There wasn't social media. We weren't all living in the age of texting for communicating. Do you think that, you know, part of his art was just being such a great communicator, or do you feel like we've lost that in this day and age?

DE NIRO: Well, Larry was the kind of person you always feel would be there and there are those people that you always -- when they go, you feel -- you feel a loss because it's too soon. And just part of everyday, they're there, you know, and you don't like to see anything happen to them. And Larry was one of those kind of people.

So as I say, I'm a little surprised that he left us as soon as he did, I guess, from COVID-19, unfortunately. It's terrible. Because I figured he'd be around for a while and I'd see him or do something with him, you know, have fun with him, make fun of him sometimes, about his age.

CABRERA: Yes. What does his loss mean to Hollywood, do you think, even that soon, where he planted his flag, his home and, obviously, so many of you and your colleagues have been on his show?

DE NIRO: Well, I only know from what I'd say. I don't know what anybody else would say. I think the general feeling, what I was just saying, that people are -- you know, they don't expect it. Larry was there and you just don't expect him to pass on as soon as he did. So it's sad.

CABRERA: There were so many legendary moments from Larry King's show. I want to show our viewers a moment where Larry King interviewed Marlon Brando. They sang a duet and then this happens.

That kiss. Can you think of a moment that better exemplifies the magic Larry King and an icon like Brando?

DE NIRO: No, that was a nice interview, they had a nice moment and only someone like Larry could, and Marlon had that feeling about him, obviously, and trusted him and had fun with him.

CABRERA: Larry and in his announcement that we received from those close to him, they highlighted this, but he really felt like his job was to make whoever he was interviewing the star. He wanted to really lift people like you up. Do you feel like he did you justice?

DE NIRO: Yes, I thought the questions he asked were -- they were good. They were respectful. They're not going to put you on the spot. He doesn't want to put you on the spot. I don't know if he's done that with other people or anything I've seen him do, and so he's trusted just to be nice to you and not and respectful and so on. And that is appreciated, and I appreciate it and I know other people do.

And you also know that Larry likes you, he always gave you a feeling that you were special. I think that's what other people said, you felt like you were the only person there. He had that way of conveying that, giving that off.

CABRERA: Robert De Niro, thank you very much for sharing your memories and your feelings about the passing of a legend, really appreciate your time this evening. Thanks.

DE NIRO: Thank you. Thank you. Bye.

CABRERA: Goodbye.

Tonight, CNN remembers Larry King. Join Anderson Cooper for a special tribute to our colleague, a mentor and a friend to many.

[17:15:01]

The King of talk, Remembering Larry King, starts at 9:00 P.M. here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Updating you on our breaking news, an alleged Capitol Hill rioter has been charged with threatening to assassinate Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And attorney for the Texas man says, quote, he did it in support of former President Donald Trump but regrets his actions.

Joining us now, John Podesta, White House chief of staff under President Clinton and chair of Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign.

John, first, I just want to get your reaction to this news that a Capitol rioter has been charged with threatening to assassinate a Democratic congresswoman. JOHN PODESTA, CHAIRMAN OF HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN: Well, you know, you could see that in the eyes and in the calls of people in the Capitol that day on January 6th.

[17:20:03]

And remember, these are the people that Donald Trump incited to go up to the Capitol and participate in what was really an insurrection and the next day, called them good people.

So this is the face of what we're experiencing and I think why the House decided for the first time in history to impeach the president for the second time.

CABRERA (voice over): This impeachment trial has now been delayed by a couple of weeks. And already, we are hearing Republican support for impeachment in conviction, specifically, is eroding. So where do you think they'll be after two more weeks to think about it?

PODESTA: You know, I think that's a judgment they're going to have to make, whether they want to stand on the side of democracy or they want to, in essence, enable a president who, as I said, incited insurrection. And they were, you know, inside that Capitol building when that insurrection took place, so they should know and have a feel for what it meant to democracy in the United States.

But, you know, they covered for him for four years so maybe they'll cover for them for another four weeks.

CABRERA: Do you think the time helps or hurts that cause?

PODESTA: Probably a raw emotion, the experience, the fear that people felt, the sympathy that went out to the Capitol officer who was killed by the crowd maybe subsides by a period of time, gets back to politics as normal. But I think they are going to have to confront that film, they're going to have to confront.

Every day, we're learning more about, as your reporting just indicated, we're learning more about the people who were there, the cause that they were involved with, the fact there was white supremacists, anti-Semites surging through the Capitol, looking for Mike Pence, wanting to kill Nancy Pelosi. If they want to excuse the president's role in that and, in fact, some of their own colleagues' role in that, then that will be a vote that I think will not look good in history.

CABRERA: Right now, President Biden only has two cabinet positions confirmed. His DNI as well as -- it was -- yes, exactly. So we know other administrations have had at least a half dozen people confirmed by day one on their presidency. When you look at all the confirmation hearings scheduled for just this next week for commerce, U.N., V.A. secretary, energy, the list goes on and on, at what point do these delays become dangerous for the country?

PODESTA: Look, it's a problem. At the beginning of the Clinton administration, I was a staff secretary, I managed the nominations and confirmations of the cabinet. We confirmed all but one cabinet secretary by the second day in office. The secretary of defense, secretary of treasury and secretary of state were confirmed within hours of President Clinton being sworn in.

The same thing happened for President Bush, maybe a little bit slower and President Obama had most of his cabinet confirmed within a few days. So the fact that, particularly, Leader McConnell can't come to terms with Leader Schumer on the way to run the Senate under a 50/50 regime is going to hurt the country.

But I would say one thing, Ana. I think the Biden transition anticipated this. They really actually did something quite unusual, which was they emphasize putting in place people who did not require Senate confirmation. That effort was led by Suzy George's, the incoming chief of staff to be Secretary Blinken at the State Department. And they did terrific job of putting people into positions of authority on day one. They're at work. The president's obviously already signed 30 executive orders.

So I think the White House is working diligently. People are in the agencies trying to carry out the people's business, moving forward with COVID relief, trying to get the vaccine out, trying to help people in need with food relief and wage relief that you saw announced from the podium yesterday in the White House.

So, you know, it's up to some level of cooperation from McConnell and the Republicans, but I think President Biden and his team are doing what they need to do.

CABRERA: Finally, the House majority whip, Jim Clyburn, said he spoke to former President George W. Bush at the inauguration and that President Bush told him Biden was, quote, the only one who could have defeated the incumbent president.

[17:25:05]

As somebody who saw firsthand what it was like to run against Trump in 2016, do you agree with that assessment?

PODESTA: Well, look, I think President Biden was uniquely situated to make the argument that on values, on program and he did that, and I think people just understood what a decent person he was and what a contrast he was to the incumbent president. So I think he had a leg up. He united the party. He had a terrific political team that helped everybody come together and he got more votes than anybody in history, more than nearly 81 million votes.

So I think that he was the right person for the time and the right contrast to someone who has denigrated our institutions and whose narcissism just continues through his final hour in the -- as he spent it in Mar-a-Lago as opposed to being a normal president would sitting on the west front of the Capitol.

CABRERA: John Podesta, I appreciate your perspective. Thank you.

PODESTA: Thanks, Ana. CABRERA: Coming up, stunning new reporting from The New York Times about the lengths former President Trump was willing to go to stay in power, including a plot to oust then acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen. Could it be included in the upcoming impeachment trial? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:03]

CABRERA: Welcome back. We have new developments about the new variant first discovered in the United Kingdom. This COVID variant is up to 70 percent more transmissible. And now we are learning this variant could be even deadlier.

With us now is Dr. Paul Offit. He's the director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

Dr. Offit, I want to play what the British prime minister and the chief U.K. scientific adviser said about this variant yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We've been informed today that, in addition to spreading more quickly, it also now appears that there's some evidence that the new variant, the variant that was first identified in London and the southeast, may be associated with a higher degree of mortality.

PATRICK VALANCE, U.K. CHIEF SCIENCE ADVISER: When we look at data from hospitals, patients who are in hospitals or in hospital with the virus, the outcomes of those with the original virus or new variant look the same. So there's no real evidence of an increase in mortality for those in hospital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So, Dr. Offit, that sounds conflicting. As a medical professional, what did you hear?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: I prefer to agree with that second statement. That's a much more reasoned statement.

And the fact of the matter is, let's suppose it is somewhat more virulent, more likely to cause disease. The fact is it's still transmitted in the same way, by respiratory droplets. So masking and social distancing still works.

Also, this particular variant, the U.K. or B117 variant is susceptible to vaccination. As we get the vaccine out there, that will stop not only the non-variant strain but this strain for causing disease.

So I guess I wouldn't put a lot of stock in this right now.

CABRERA: According to researchers, another variant, this one that was identified in South Africa first, may partially evade the vaccines.

Are you concerned about a potentially vaccine-resistant variant and when will we know for sure if the vaccines work on it?

OFFIT: Here's where you should start to worry, when people who either have been naturally infected with this virus or people who have received two doses of these mRNA vaccines, Pfizer or Moderna, still get infected and still get hospitalized.

That's when you should worry. And we should prepare for the fact that that might happen. But right now, there's no evidence that's happened. And I think there's abundant evidence it may well not happen. So I think we should right now do what we can do.

And I guess if fantasies could true, what I'd love to see happen is a daily briefing from the government telling us exactly how many vaccines they are expected to be made over the next week or two weeks, exactly how they'll distribute it and how they plan to have it administered on a mass level.

And essentially COVID-19 working group that's headed by people who are great. We are so lucky with this administration to have people like Rochelle Walensky and David Kessler and people at the CDC like Nancy and Amanda Cohen. We should hear from them every day to help us calm us down.

We keep scaring ourselves. Is this more virulent or the South Africa will escape vaccine recognition? There's no evidence for that.

I'd love to hear from this administration who's essentially calling or challenging this virus and saying we're going to take a war against this virus.

And love to hear the war room talking to us on a daily basis.

CABRERA: You underscored that a year into this pandemic, there's still so much we don't know and so much we're still learning.

I talked to Dr. Leana Wen, the former Baltimore health commissioner, earlier and she said the U.S. could have some of its own variants.

What is the U.S. doing right now to study the variants here?

OFFIT: Right, we need to do a better job at sequencing. Sequencing these viruses much more so than we have been and the U.K. has been very good.

This is a bat coronavirus that made its debut in the human population a year ago. It will continue to adapt to the human population by making variants. That's not surprising.

[17:34:59]

What you worry about, that it would resist vaccination. There's no evidence for that. It's all generated in the laboratory trying to predict whether it will

happen. You'll know that when you see people admitted to the hospital variant strains who have been immunized. That's when you should start to worry.

But I think you're right. We need to sequence these viruses before, when these variants come up, characterize them, and get ready to make a second-generation vaccine if need be.

CABRERA: OK, Dr. Paul Offit, appreciate your time and expertise. Thank you.

OFFIT: Thank you.

CABRERA: Coming up, stunning new reporting from "The New York Times" about the lengths former President Trump was willing to go to stay in power, including a plot to oust the acting attorney general. Could it be included in the upcoming impeachment trial? Our legal experts are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:39:57]

CABRERA: Breaking news now on CNN. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer calling for a top-level DOJ investigation into new disturbing reports about the length former President Donald Trump was willing to go to overturn the election he lost.

Let's get right to CNN's Suzanne Malveaux on Capitol Hill.

Suzanne, Chuck Schumer wants action on this. Tell us more.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Schumer announcing there will be action on this.

He is calling for the inspector general of the Justice Department to launch an investigation into this "New York Times" report.

That a then attorney from the Justice Department, Jeffrey Clark, was plotting, planning and nearly convinced then President Trump to fire his attorney general, then his Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, and replace him with Clark.

Why? Well, according to "The New York Times" report, Rosen allegedly refused to simply force Georgia's state lawmakers to overturn the results of the presidential election out of their state.

Now, Justice Department officials got wind of this and reportedly had a conference call and decided, well, if Rosen goes, we all go. If Rosen is fired, they would all resign en masse.

The report goes on to say they didn't do that because then President Trump backed down.

Well, Schumer tweeting this out saying, "Unconscionable. Would conspire to subvert the people's will. Must launch an investigation into this attempted sedition now. And the Senate will move forward with Trump's impeachment trial."

The most important line of that tweet, Ana, is the last one. It simply suggests that they may put this into -- encapsulate this into the Senate trial, the hearing, the case they're making against the president to demonstrate the lengths to which he allegedly went to overturn this election.

That process, that trial to move forward in earnest officially on Monday when the House managers deliver it to the Senate.

CABRERA: Suzanne Malveaux, thank you.

Nick Akerman is a former assistant special Watergate prosecutor, and Sofia Nelson is a contributing editor for "The Grio" and also a legal mind.

Sophia, does this reporting make its way into the impeachment trial, should it?

SOPHIA NELSON, CNN LEGAL & POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, absolutely. It will be evident, right?

Remember, the indictment that the House sent over is that the president incited insurrection and, in essence, tried to undermine the whole democratic norms at the capitol while they were doing their official business.

Which I think is really critical point that's going to be stressed. And this is just another rung on the ladder of, I think, the stuff that we're going to find out now that Trump is gone and his people are gone.

A lot of people are going to start singing like a bird because they knew things were afoot. And I think we'll get more stories like this.

It absolutely makes it in with the impeachment managers, will pound on this pretty hard.

CABRERA: On the other hand, Nick, there's this reporting, there was also the early January call with the Georgia secretary of state in which President Trump is heard asking him to "find more votes."

Would this evidence also support the current impeachment article which is, again, inciting an insurrection or could it potentially muddy the case in some way?

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: No, I don't think so at all. I mean, this is going to be a real trial.

Unlike Trump's first impeachment, where people just got up and argued what happened in the House, you've got the Democrats in control.

They're going to have a real trial. There's going to be witnesses. There's going to be videos. There's going to be testimony. There's going to be exhibits.

And what you do in a trial is you present the entire picture. So that you show the individual's intent, in this case, Donald Trump's intent to basically undermine our constitutional system, undermine the voters will in Georgia, as well as the other states, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania.

And you can rest assured that if he did this in Georgia and he did this with the Department of Justice with respect to Georgia, he had to have been doing it in the other states because it wouldn't have made sense otherwise.

He would have had to knock out some of the electoral votes in either Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Pennsylvania, in order to actually steal the election in the end.

CABRERA: Explain how that fits into inciting the insurrection.

AKERMAN: Because it's part of his intent. His intent was to stop the Electoral College vote from being accepted at any cost.

He couldn't do it, first of all, by trying to get people to believe that there was a fraudulent election.

He tried it with all of these 60-some odd courts. He was kicked out of court in every single instance.

He tried to bully and extort the secretary of state of Georgia. That didn't work.

He tried then to get his attorney general fired so he could then get the Georgia legislature to nullify the vote. That didn't work.

[17:45:06]

So what did he do? He incited a mob to go up to the capitol to try to get Vice President Pence and try to get Nancy Pelosi. That is the story that the Senate is going to want to hear in this impeachment trial.

And I guarantee you, if they do a good investigation, which they've got a couple of weeks to do now, I would be looking at Donald Trump's phone records.

I want to know who he was talking to before this riot, who he was talking to during the riot, who his children were talking to, who his campaign people were talking to, the same ones that were funding these people to come in from out of state to go up to the capitol.

There's a lot of evidence that can be put together here to show basically an overwhelming pattern and intent on the part of this president to basically undermine our constitutional process and undermine the voter's will in this presidential election.

And all of this evidence would be relevant to that point. CABRERA: Sophia, it sounds like Nick is suggesting this delay in the

start of the impeachment trial may be beneficial for Democrats in particular if they're trying to convict the president.

But we're also hearing about GOP support for impeachment starting to erode.

What do you think? Does the delayed timeline benefit the president or not?

NELSON: Delay has nothing to do with your morals and your ethics.

Let's just say it straight. There needs to be accountability before there's going to be -- if the GOP is so inclined to overlook yet again constitutional crimes and misdemeanors and behavior that's simply unacceptable in a democracy in America, that's what they're inclined to do.

It doesn't matter if you have the trial tomorrow, if you have it next week or if you have it next year.

This really is going to come down to, Ana -- I mean, I think majority leader or minority leader, McConnell, dug himself into a box when he pretty much laid this at the president's feet. It's going to be hard to back away from that now.

I agree with everything Nick said. And I'm not sure that a delay or a start matters for the Republicans. They'll even do what's right here or they're going to do what's wrong.

But the evidence is overwhelming that President Trump had nefarious intent, conspirators and co-conspirators and rioters.

This is a mess, And I think it's going to get a lot worse before it's better.

CABRERA: Nick, one of the arguments for pushing the impeachment trial back is to give the Trump team more time to prepare their case.

Still, this week, there have been questions about who would be representing former President Trump. And Lindsey Graham, one of the Senators who will be a juror, has been involved in helping him find lawyers.

Why is he, a juror, helping put Trump together a legal team?

AKERMAN: That's pretty unusual. Let's face it, he's got a bias to begin with. He's going to vote against impeachment.

But at the end of the day, the delay really helps the prosecution here. It always does because it gives you an opportunity to gather more evidence.

And if there's one way to force the Republicans into voting to convict, is to keep that evidence pouring in, to keep finding new evidence. If they could come up with one telephone call between Donald Trump and

one of those rioters prior to the time or during the time that they were up on Capitol Hill, that would be checkmate, end of story. That would force the Republicans to have to convict.

And what you want to do in a criminal prosecution or any kind of trial is to come up with the evidence so that the jury has no choice but to convict.

And that's why I think this delay is helpful.

NELSON: I'd like to interject and say I disagree.

I think the Republicans have shown that no matter how much evidence we have -- we have plenty of evidence right now that this president incited insurrection and had a lot of people in the House, several in the Senate, who are going along with the big lie. And they seem not to care.

I am not of the school of thought, as a former lifelong Republican, that they give a damn about much of anything.

So I am going to be pleasantly surprised if they convict him. but I'm not holding my breath for that.

CABRERA: All right, Sophia Nelson and Nick Akerman --

(CROSSTALK)

AKERMAN: I think --

CABRERA: -- thank you, both.

AKERMAN: I'm sorry.

CABRERA: Got to leave it there.

AKERMAN: Thank you.

CABRERA: Appreciate the conversation.

[17:49:37]

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Finally tonight, as we remember our colleague, Larry King, we leave you with the lighter moments from his show, when Robin Williams took over the control room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBIN WILLIAMS, COMEDIAN: OK, go tighter, Larry. Real tight, if you can. That's tight.

Just try to cut the suspenders because I wore those first.

Larry, we have an interview with one of your sperm. It's in assisted living in Miami. We're hoping to see -- it's been there for a couple of years. I don't know.

Bob, cut to the sperm.

OK, back to Larry.

OK, Larry, Larry, we've got -- give me the shot of Britney.

Pan up.

(CROSSTALK)

OK -- oh, yes.

No, keep the two of them in. Keep the producer there wondering how we're going to air this.

OK, now we've got Mel Gibson and a rabbi. Let's see what happens. He's doing a production of "Fiddler on the Roof," in Orange County. It's really fun though.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:54:01]

CABRERA: Tonight, CNN remembers Larry King. Join Anderson Cooper for a special tribute to our former colleague, mentor, and friend. "THE KING OF TALK, REMEMBERING LARRY KING" starts at 9:00 eastern.

That does it for me this evening.

I want to wish a special congratulations to my colleague, Pamela Brown, who has her premiere of her new show tonight, which starts right after a quick break.

I'll join you tomorrow afternoon at 4:00 p.m. Eastern right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Have a good night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:00:04]

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Make no mistake, there will be a vote whether to convict the president.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You'll never take back our country with weakness.