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Wildfire Rages in Cape Town's Table Mountain National Park; Former Australian Prime Minister Puts Rupert Murdoch on Blast; Top European Clubs Announce 'Super League'; U.S. Cities are on Edge over Derek Chauvin Trial; Pressure on Putin Over Alexei Navalny's Health; J&J Vaccine Could Return Soon; E.U. is Working to Reopen Travel to U.S. Tourists; India Records More Than One Million New Cases in Five Days. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired April 19, 2021 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. You are watching "CNN Newsroom." I am Rosemary Church.

Just ahead, Minneapolis and other cities across the U.S. are on high alert ahead of the final days of the Derek Chauvin trial.

International pressure grows on Russia as Alexei Navalny enters the third week of his hunger strike.

Americans may soon be able to travel to Europe for the first time in almost a year. We will have the details in our live report.

Good to have you with us. Well, Minneapolis and other American cities are bracing for the possibility of massive protests ahead of closing arguments today in the closely-watched murder trial of the former police officer charged in the death of George Floyd.

Floyd's death sparked global demonstrations last year. Derek Chauvin has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder and other charges. Court to resume just a few hours from now.

And National Guard troops are deployed in Minneapolis. Barriers have been placed around some government buildings and other cities have taken similar steps.

Sara Sidner shows us how some Minneapolis racial justice activists spent the day on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At George Floyd Square, the day before the closing arguments in the trial against the former officer accused of murdering him, this place has turned into a place of solidarity between Black folks and Asian folks, Latino folks and white folks. It is also a place to mourn.

I want to give you a look at what this place looks like. This has been here since the day George Floyd died. Some of the things are new. You now see the name of Daunte Wright here. Daunte Wright was killed by a police officer, who now faces manslaughter charges. George Floyd's image is still everywhere here over everything.

People come here to mourn his death. They come here calling for change. They come here like the mother who is speaking now to talk about their children who have been killed, hers in a jail. Some of the others that sit behind her, their children were killed by police.

And so this is really a place where people come hoping for change, begging for change, demanding change. Right here is where George Floyd took his last breath. You can see the outline they have made, a body outline, but given him wings. You see those candles there, some of those laid by his girlfriend the day before she testified in the Derek Chauvin trial.

This is a place of gathering. And sometimes, it is a place that explodes in violence. It is a place that is constantly changing, but it is always here. People are always here, tending to this memorial to try and make sure that the memory is never forgotten, what happened here outside Cup Foods in Minneapolis.

Sara Sidner, CNN, Minneapolis.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CHURCH (on camera): In Chicago, protesters have been demanding justice for 13-year-old Adam Toledo, who was shot and killed by police. These demonstrators took to the streets on Sunday. Last month's police shooting was captured on newly released video sparking protests across the city. The shooting is under investigation. And Chicago mayor, Lori Lightfoot, is under pressure to back major reforms to the city's police department.

Community members in Indiana are mourning eight people killed in a mass shooting at a FedEx facility last week. People gathered Sunday in Beech Grove for a vigil. The city's mayor had a personal connection with one of the victims and was visibly emotional as he spoke to the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR DENNIS BUCKLEY, BEECH GROVE, INDIANA: She is one of our bright young citizens who had been called home. I'm never going to question why, but she was. Now, she is standing on the right hand of god, looking down on all of us. That is refreshing to me -- I'm sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH (on camera): FedEx has now donated $1 million to survivors and families of the shooting victims.

[03:05:04] CHURCH (on camera): Mass shootings in the United States are becoming all too common in occurrence. In the past month, 50 mass shootings have taken place across this country and that number rises to 150 since the beginning of 2021. CNN considers an incident to be a mass shooting if four or more people are shot, wounded or killed, excluding the gunman.

The Russian government is under pressure from world leaders to keep jailed opposition leader Alexei Navalny alive. The outspoken Kremlin critic is on day 20 of a hunger strike. His allies say he is very close to death. The E.U. and the U.K. are demanding the Kremlin let Navalny see his own doctors. And the U.S. promises there will be consequences if he dies on prison. Navalny supporters in Russia say there is no time to wait.

Sam Kiley tells us what they're planning.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The followers of Alexei Navalny have reached a point of which they are so fearful of their leader's death in a Russian penal colony as a consequence of the Novichok poisoning with nerve gas that he suffered back in August and a hunger strike that he is currently undergoing that they brought forward plans for mass demonstrations across Russia against the Putin regime ahead of actually reaching their target of having had 500,000 signatures on an online petition before triggering the demonstrations.

They are now fearful that he could actually die following analysis by doctors who support him, saying that they fear that he could be in imminent danger of renal failure or of heart failure following a spike in the levels of potassium in his bloodstream.

This all comes as Moscow prosecutors have been trying to outlaw his organization and designated as an extremist movement. Other organizations that fall into that category have more often been associated, for example, with violent Islamic extremism. If it was so designated, it will make it almost impossible for his followers to campaign in the September elections.

But nonetheless, they are hoping to launch these mass demonstrations, details of which we are unable to broadcast to this day because there is legislation in this country that means even the media circulating details of such demonstrations could be prosecuted for incitement.

Sam Kiley, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CHURCH (on camera): And earlier, we spoke to one of Alexei Navalny's advisers. We asked him how Navalny's supporters feel about the international reaction so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR MILOV, ADVISER TO ALEXEI NAVALNY: The reaction, I'd say, so far, has been fairly slow. We really are facing a situation where Alexei could die by the minute. His medical tests have been publicized late last week were absolutely disastrous. Essentially, doctors are saying that he could have a heart attack at any minute that might be very dangerous for his life.

So I think this sort of muted reaction is not really something we expected. We expect a more -- a stronger action on the part of international leaders regarding that.

So I think the fact that he announced the hunger strike means that he is really facing some desperate conditions, denial of basic medical service. This is actually the reason for hunger strike because his health was beginning to rapidly deteriorate, but he was denied to see the doctor.

And it's important to understand for your viewers that this penal colony where he's being kept does not have a doctor. It only has a paramedic. His condition is extremely serious, but is denied basic normal medical service. This is why it's a hunger strike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH (on camera): Russia is also under pressure from the Czech Republic. Protesters demonstrated outside the Russian embassy in Prague on Sunday. They called on the E.U. to support the Czech Republic amid a diplomatic row with Moscow. Czech police are searching for two Russian suspects in connection with the blast at an arms depot in 2014. They are the same two men who have been linked to the Novichok poisonings three years ago in the U.K.

So let's talk about all of this with CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, joining me live from London. Good to see you, Nic. So the U.S. is warning of consequences if Kremlin critic Navalny should die in custody. What could those consequences be and how might Russia respond?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: President Biden's national security advisor Jake Sullivan was asked precisely that question because he said that the United States was considering what it would do if Navalny dies, which is clearly an indication that they have a high level of concern.

[03:10:10]

ROBERTSON: They have said they have. President Biden, who said that he has, that the treatment of Alexei Navalny is unacceptable, it is unjustified. Ned Price of the State Department, the State Department's spokesman, has said that Russia will be held accountable.

But to your question, what did Jake Sullivan say to what is the U.S. considering? He said he wouldn't say but it is under active consideration. This is a real concern not just for the United States but for European leaders as well.

President von del Leyen, the European Commission president, this morning has tweeted that she is concerned about his health condition. We have heard from other E.U. leaders saying that he must be given access to medical doctors of his choosing.

But specifically, what would be done if you were to die in jail isn't clear. The Russian ambassador speaking -- Russian ambassador speaking on British television over the weekend said that Navalny would not be allowed to die in jail. He called Navalny a (INAUDIBLE), saying that he violates all sorts of prison regulations.

But to the point of the concern of his doctors, that his health is fragile and part of that is due to his poisoning by Bovichok just over a year ago is a real concern for those who support him, that his body hasn't fully recovered, that he is still suffering for the after effects of the deadly nerve agent that he only just survived from.

So, what the United States will do? Not clear. But what is clear, the relationship with the United States and President Putin is that the tensions are ratcheting up, just gone through last week, tit-for-tat, diplomatic expulsions and threats of more countermeasures.

CHURCH: And Nic, while we have you here, what more are you learning about the Czech Republic expelling 18 Russian embassy staff and the story of two Russian suspects on the run?

ROBERTSON: Well, Russia has responded already, tit-for-tat, saying it will expel 20, 20 Czech diplomats from Russia and the timeline for that is almost immediate. They really have to be leaving by the end of today. It seems to be the indication coming from the Kremlin.

The British government is fully supporting. What Dominic Raab, the British foreign secretary, calls, you know, Czech allies. That this is an example of Russia's outrageous, as he calls it, actions, destabilizing actions, maligned actions, he calls them, by their intelligence operatives around the European Union.

The fact that the two people who were photographed, videoed, recorded, outed shown again on Russian television by President Putin is the two people responsible for that poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia here in the U.K. couple of years ago, the fact that the same two people were responsible in the 2014, it appears, in the Czech Republic for blowing up an arms depot in 2014 that killed two people, an indication that the British clearly see that these operatives have been used in many locations, Britain and the Czech Republic and possibly others.

That is a cause for concern. And again, this speaks to the heightening tensions with Russia at the moment not just on these issues, but also over the issue of the massive troop buildup around the border of Ukraine. You had President Macron this weekend saying that clear red lines must be drawn for Russia in terms of its troop deployments close to Ukraine.

CHURCH: All right. Nic Robertson, many thanks, joining us live from London, appreciate it.

And just ahead, Dr. Anthony Fauci says we could soon see a return of Johnson & Johnson's COVID vaccine. We will hear from him next.

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[03:15:00]

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CHURCH (on camera): Starting today, everyone in the U.S. age 16 and older will be eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine. So far, the CDC reports that half of all adults have received at least one dose of the vaccine and a quarter of the population is now fully vaccinated. The pause in the Johnson & Johnson vaccine may soon be lifted. Dr. Anthony Fauci says he anticipates the single-dose shot to return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I don't want to get ahead of the CDC and the FDA and the advisory committee, but I would imagine that what we will see is that it would come back and it would come back in some sort of either warning or restriction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH (voice-over): But despite all of that, cases are surging in some parts of the country, including in Michigan, where hospitals are becoming overwhelmed.

Joining me now is Anne Rimoin. She is a professor in the Department of Epidemiology at the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health. It is always good to have you with us.

ANNE RIMOIN, PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY AT UCLA FIELDING SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH, DIRECTOR OF CENTER FOR GLOBAL AND IMMIGRANT HEALTH: Nice to be here.

CHURCH: So Dr. Anthony Fauci predicts the Johnson & Johnson vaccine will likely be made available again by Friday, but with restrictions or warnings attached after those very rare blood clots in women. What will those restrictions likely be, do you think?

ROMOIN: Well, it's going to depend upon what the data shows. So, there is a potential that there could be restrictions, for example, for women who are on birth control pills or on hormone replacement therapy or it could be a subset of adults that have certain conditions if the data bears out that there are actually conditions that make people more susceptible to these kinds of rare blood clots.

Again, these are very, very rare in the general population and only six instances out of almost seven million doses.

[03:20:03]

RIMOIN: So, very rare if the link approves to be true. So, we are still waiting on the data.

CHURCH: Yeah, they are being very cautious in this instance, as you say, incredibly rare. Despite COVID cases surging in some states here in the United States, the good news is that 50 percent of the U.S. adult population has had at least one COVID vaccine dose and 25 percent are now fully vaccinated. But so far, polls show still about 25 percent say they don't intend to get vaccinated.

One particular Fox anchor is helping spread falsehoods about vaccine safety which, of course, is increasing that sense of hesitancy. How concerned are you about that, and what could be the consequences if a concerned are you about that and what could be the consequences if a quarter of the population doesn't get vaccinated in the end?

RIMOIN: Well, Rosemary, you brought up a very important point. We are at a really great moment that we've reached 50 percent of all adults getting vaccinated or getting at least one dose which is really fantastic news. But we've always known that this last mile is going to be the hardest.

We should make it clear, you know, this isn't just about people who are all -- absolutely dead set against getting the vaccine. There are people who are hesitant. It is OK to have questions about this vaccine.

As you, know, I've been running studies on vaccine hesitancy in health workers and first responders and expanding in the other populations. We know there's always percentage of people who just are concerned. They have questions. They're waiting for these questions to be answered.

And so I think it is going to be incumbent upon the public health community to do a really good job of listening to the questions that people have and finding a good way to be able to respond to them.

There always are going to be segments of the population who do not want to be vaccinated or who can't get vaccinated. But in order to reach that 75 to 85 percent of people vaccinated, which we hope will provide a good safety net of herd immunity, we really are going to have to work hard to get to this population that are hesitant, get them the information that they want so they can make that decision to get vaccinated based on data.

CHURCH: Yeah, so critical. And Pfizer CEO says a third vaccine dose will be needed within six to 12 months. What might this mean going forward in terms of how often the world's population will need to get shots for COVID?

RIMOIN: This is actually a very important point here. We are going to very possibly need to get booster shots going forward. The question is going to be, are these going to be just the same shot for -- just giving us a boost that will protect us against all variants or will the variants provide -- will the variants be evading the immune system enough that we may have to have additional, new vaccines?

That is why Moderna and Pfizer are working right now on looking at the effectiveness of vaccines on the new variants. So, whether it is just a shot of the original vaccine or a vaccine that provides protection against new variants, we will very likely be getting new shots. We do this with flu. We have done this for years with influenza. And eventually, you might even look at a vaccine that could be both COVID and influenza in the future.

CHURCH: Anne Rimoin, always a pleasure to talk with you. Many thanks.

RIMOIN: It's my pleasure.

CHURCH (on camera): Greece is dropping quarantine restrictions for some travellers. Starting today, visitors from the European Union, the United States, the U.K., Israel, Serbia and the UAE will no longer be required to self-isolate on arrival as long as they have been vaccinated or test negative for COVID-19.

In the meantime, E.U. countries are working on a special pass to facilitate travel inside the block for U.S. citizens who are vaccinated or can show that they have tested negative for the virus. French President Emmanuel Macron spoke to CBS News about the plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: We will progressively lift the restrictions at the beginning of May which means that we will organize in summertime with our professionals in France for French, European citizens, but as well for American citizens. So, we are working how to propose a complete solution, especially for U.S. citizens who are vaccinated. So, with a special pass, I would say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And for more on all of this, let's bring in CNN's Melissa Bell. She joins us live from Paris. It is always good to see you, Melissa.

So, talk to us about how this special pass for all those who are vaccinated will work exactly and who issues it? How do you prove you're vaccinated?

[03:24:55]

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the European Commission is currently working on this and we have been hearing from the man in charge of the E.U. vaccine task force, who has been explaining that this have been fairly controversial in the beginning, but the progress being made towards its creation has been advancing fairly quickly under pressure, of course, Rosemary, from these countries here in Europe that are the most dependent on summer tourism.

I'm thinking here of countries like Greece, Portugal, Italy, Austria, countries that are really looking to hope to reopen their tourism industry and get over those barriers that have been created even within Europe between countries.

So, the vaccine passports are a major part of that. The idea is that by the end of May, early June, but operational by mid-June, Europeans should have access to digital certificates that will certify that they have either been vaccinated or are immune because they recently had COVID-19, for instance. They will then be able to travel to countries like Greece without going through quarantine. And, of course, what we heard from Emmanuel Macron yesterday is that they are looking into a system that will allow for a certain vaccine certificate to be issued to allow, for instance, Americans who have been vaccinated to travel to Europe as well.

Here in France, for instance, Rosemary, the tourism industry, tourists spend more than 50 billion euros every year. That is until COVID hit. That is crucial revenue that France is looking to gain once again. The idea is that even as these vaccine passports allow more and more tourists to come to places like France, they're also going to look at things like reopening terraces, museums, all of those things that people tend to come to Paris for, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yeah, absolutely. Melissa Bell, joining us live from Paris, many thanks.

Well, India has recorded more than one million new COVID-19 cases in five days. On Monday, the country reported more than 270,000 cases, a record high. Prime minister Narendra Modi is under fire for holding election rallies. But ironically, he is appealing to people gathering for a major Hindu festival to keep it symbolic. The capital of New Delhi is especially hard hit with less than 100 ICU beds available for COVID patients.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is in Thailand tracking these developments in India. She joins us now live. Good to see you, Paula. So a fifth consecutive day of more than 200,000 new COVID infections across India and yet Prime Minister Modi is holding rallies for local elections, potential super spreader events in the midst of the surge in cases. What is going on?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Quite simply, Rosemary, it is a complete mixed messaging from the government when you have Prime Minister Modi saying about one of the world's biggest festivals, religious festivals that the people should be following that festival and following traditions symbolically and not physically. So it is disbanding and not congregating by the sides of the River Ganges.

At the same time, he is speaking at a rally where you can see many people not socially distanced. Most of them do wear masks but some of them are not. It is complete mixed messaging from the Indian government to this point. Not surprisingly, there has been criticism on social media. There has been confusion as to what exactly should be done.

But the situation on the ground in India is getting worse and worse. I've spoken to our colleagues on the ground in New Delhi and they point out that at this point, those who have relatives that need help, that they need to go to hospital, that need some kind of treatment, have almost given up on trying to deal with the hospitals directly.

They say that many hospitals are so overwhelmed that they simply can't answer the telephone. They are turning to social media to ask people for help, to ask if they can take one of their relatives to a hospital. And as you say, Rosemary, less than 100 ICU beds left in New Delhi. It is a city of some 19 million people. So, clearly, that is of great concern. At this point, it doesn't appear as though the peak has even been hit. Rosemary?

CHURCH: It is a shocking situation. Paula Hancocks, joining us live there, appreciate it.

An out of control fire is tearing through a South African national park. Coming up, we will speak with a witness.

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[03:30:00]

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CHURCH: In South Africa, firefighters are battling a massive blaze in Cape Town's Table Mountain National Park. Officials suspect a homeless person's abandoned fire may be to blame. Two firefighters were hospitalized with injuries and hikers and students at the University of Cape Town ware evacuated.

A historic windmill was also badly damaged. Mostert's Mill was built in 1796 and was reportedly the only working windmill in Africa south of the Sahara.

Lisette Lombard witnessed a fire and joins us now from Cape Town. Thank you so much for talking with us. Of course, you posted a video on Twitter saying you are trying to outrun this fire. That must have been terrifying. How difficult was it to know where to run to get to safety?

LISETTE LOMBARD, TABLE MOUNTAIN FIRE WITNESS: I just didn't know. I was just running and running and trying to get away from the fire. I think it was a huge eye opener and absolutely I'm a little bit wiser today. I didn't realize that the fire could spread, you know, 10 or 20 kilometers or you could say 10 or 15 miles and within seconds.

And I just ran at that stage towards Newlands Forest. I thought that I would be safe there. But then I realized the fire was spreading towards that direction. That is when I went down to the UCT area before the fire reached that area.

CHURCH: Unbelievable. Presumably, you are doing this all by yourself. You also said your car was destroyed in this fire and that it has spread unpredictably fast. What are your thoughts now as you think back to what happened as you were trying to get out of there and knowing that this is still an active situation?

LOMBARD: I was very -- I was just praying. I just felt so helpless at that stage. I didn't know where to go to. I was just running. I didn't know whether I was going to make it or not. I think I'm still in shock today.

At that stage, when I was running, I was running -- I was just thinking I was doing a normal trail run on Table Mountain. I didn't expect anything like this.

[03:34:57]

LOMBARD: I saw a little flame when I started, a little smoke in the one corner, but it didn't look serious at all. There was no wind and within seconds there was a wind and there was a huge fire.

CHURCH: So, how did you actually get out and actually find your way from the flames and the smoke and realized, oh, I'm safe now?

LOMBARD: I've realized that I should make my way to the road and get out of the forest. As I reached the road, there was a firefighter waiting for me.

CHURCH: Wow!

LOMBARD: Yeah. They just (INAUDIBLE) me out. And I told them that my car was still in the road to the memorial area and he just took my keys and he (INAUDIBLE) and trying to save my car but they can't promise anything. Within five minutes, he came back just to say no -- he just showed me a picture. It was this fire everywhere. So, I lost my car.

CHURCH: Wow, but I mean, you got with -- got away with your life which is extraordinary.

LOMBARD: Yes.

CHURCH: You must have been so relieved to see that firefighter. I'm sure real time my car was still in the area, he took my keys and said, we'll try to see if we can save my car, but no promises. Within 5 minutes he came back and said, sorry, no, he showed me a picture and it was fire everywhere. So, i lost my car.

CHURCH: Wow, but I mean, you -- you've got with -- got away with your life, which is extraordinary.

LOMBARD: Yes.

CHURCH: You must have been so relieved to see that firefighter. I'm sure you relive these moments over and over again in your mind. Talk to us too about what more you might be learning about how this fire started? We are hearing various stories about that.

LOMBARD: I have no idea. You don't know if it was a homeless person. I heard it could be a homeless person that started the fire. It could have been arson. You just don't know. It could be any reason. It just creates so much havoc in the city, especially with the winds that you find here in Cape Town in these months. When it's warm, they spread very quickly.

I think there were two students as I ran out to the road that wanted to go and have a look at the fire. I just called them back with me to say, look, there's just no way that you can go and have a look because it is so unpredictable and it spread so quickly. You think you are safe and then you realize you're just not safe. CHURCH: Yeah. We are so relieved that you are safe now with a terrifying experience. But Lisette Lombard, thank you so much for sharing it with us, joining us live there from Cape Town. We appreciate it.

LOMBARD: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has some sharp criticism for Rupert Murdoch's media empire. Why he says the Murdoch family has created a market for crazy. We are back with that in just a moment.

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[03:40:00]

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CHURCH (on camera): Welcome back, everyone. Rupert Murdoch's media empire has major influence through its many outlets in the United States, the U.K., and in Australia. But how that influence is used is being called into question. In a recent parliamentary proceeding, former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull blasted Murdoch's company news corps.

CNN's chief media correspondent Brian Stelter spoke with Turnbull, who argues the media group is a road in democracy in the U.S. and Australia.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

MALCOLM TURNBULL, FORMER AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: The Murdoch's media empire has enormous political power. It is the most

potent political force in Australia. It does not operate as a conventional news or journalistic operation any longer. Its influence in the United States and Britain and all of the countries where it is to be found is now utterly partisan. It is more like a political party, but the only members are the Murdochs.

And, as you know, it has driven populist right-wing agendas, denying climate change, supporting extremism on the right of politics, a populist politics, to the extent, most irresponsible of all, you may think, supporting the proposition that Joe Biden had, in fact, stolen the election and was not legitimately elected president.

And that, of course, was directly connected to the sacking, the assault, the violent assault, on the United States' Capitol, a shocking event and one of the darkest days in America's political history.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You, Mr. Turnbull, see more disturbed by the attack on the U.S. Capitol than a lot of people here in the United States. A lot of conservatives are trying to deny what happened and pretend it wasn't that bad. But I appreciate that you saw it for what it was. TURNBULL: Well, it was an assault on democracy. It was -- and you see, what's Murdoch has delivered largely through Fox News in the United States is exactly what Vladimir Putin wanted to achieve with these disinformation campaigns, turning one part of America against another. So, exacerbating the divisions that already exist in American society and undermine the trust Americans have in their democratic institutions.

That was the objective of the Russian disinformation campaign and that is exactly what is being delivered by Fox News and by other players in that right-wing populist media ecosystem.

It is in effect that what they have created is a market for crazy. They have become unhinged from the facts. It is now, basically, they have worked out that you can just make stuff up. They -- we -- everyone talks about and complaints about social media, but what is being done by curated media, mainstream media, including and in a particular, Fox News, has done enormous damage to the United States.

I mean, the question you have to ask yourself is, is America a more divided country than it was before? Thanks to Murdoch's influence. The answer must be yes. Do Americans have less faith in their electoral institutions and their legitimate institutions of government as a result of Murdoch? Yes. Now, that is a terrible outcome. That is a terrible outcome.

STELTER: You said Murdoch has created a market for crazy. I've never heard anyone say it quite like that before, a market for crazy. If this clip is re-aired on Fox News, they will say, you are insulting all of Trump supporters. You are insulting all of conservative America. They would say that is -- that will harm your cross.

[03:45:00]

STELTER: Have you thought about what the right way or what are the most effective ways are to combat the so-called market for crazy?

TURNBULL: Look, when somebody tells lies and spreads misinformation and you call them out, you are calling out the liar, not the people that have been taken in by the lies. They are the victims, right?

So, you know, Murdoch has to take responsibility for what he has done. You know, politicians take responsibility. They come up for election every few years. The power that has been exerted by Murdoch and in such a partisan way, I mean, this is -- look, I've been involved in the media business most of my life, since the mid-70s, early 70s, in fact.

STELTER: Yes.

TURNBULL: -- and, you know, I grew up with newspapers, some of them lent more to the left, others more to the right, but they basically reported the news straight. And on Election Day, they would say, you know, vote for this party or vote for that party. Fair enough. What you now have with Murdoch, and you can see it with Fox News, Americans don't need, you know, an Australian to tell them this, but what you see now is just undiluted propaganda.

STELTER: Fox CEO Lachlan Murdoch has relocated near you. He has relocated to Sydney or thereabouts. So I wonder why you think that is and whether the two of you should get together and try to hash this out.

TURNBULL: Well, I've known Lachlan Murdoch for many years. I've spoken to him and his father about -- in fact, I know pretty much all the family. I've spoken to both of them about these issues in the past.

STELTER: Mm-hmm.

TURNBULL: I would say that Lachlan is more right-wing than his father, more extreme, and he -- I think the bottom line is they enjoy the power. You know, a lot of people assume that people are attracted to power simply for the purpose of doing something. That is a very generous assumption.

Many people in the media, in business, in politics, are attracted to power for its own sake. Asking them, why do you want to exert this power is like saying to somebody, you know, why do you want to have sex? It is an urge. It is -- so the power, the influence -- that is what turns them on, and it's very, very dangerous.

I mean, I saw the relationship between Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump. I have never seen a politician as deferential to Murdoch as Trump was, and, you know, it was -- it was clearly a very symbiotic relationship. Murdoch knew very well, he knew very well what Trump's shortcomings were. He didn't think he was qualified to be president. But once he thought he could make him president and have that influence over him, but to what and, he did so.

And so, you ended up -- again, where did you end? You ended with an assault on the Congress. You ended up with a country that where a third -- I recently saw of the public -- believes that Biden was not legitimately elected.

You know, in defiance of all the facts and all the reality. Now, that is -- that is the type of outcome that Vladimir Putin could only dream of having achieved. But it was done by Rupert Murdoch, Lachlan, their organization, and they are not held to account at all. But they should be.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CHURCH (on camera): CNN's chief media correspondent Brian Stelter is speaking there with former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.

Some of Europe's top football clubs are on the back foot after a big announcement. They are forming a super league where they get to call the shots. Why critics say it is all about the money.

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[03:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. A dozen of Europe's top football clubs have set off a firestorm of criticism after announcing they want to form their own super league. UFA says if it happens, the clubs will be banned from playing at all levels with other leagues.

CNN world sport anchor Alex Thomas joins me now live from London. Good to see you, Alex. So, this announcement has been met with condemnation from politicians, fans, former players, and the sports regulators. How likely is it that this will go ahead given the resistance?

ALEX THOMAS, CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: It's very likely as far as the 12 potential founding clubs are concerned, Rosemary. If it does, it's already sending shockwaves to the sports and will drastically redraw the European football map. Perhaps more than any time in his long history, a sport that goes back well over 100 years.

It has always been based on merit. If you are good enough on the pitch, you are on promotion through the leagues, you get the chance to play European wide competition at the club level, and money gets spread around. But most of the top clubs, that money filters down through the pyramid structure, the amateur leagues, they're in the lower professional leagues, all the way up back up to the top.

This will be very much put a European Super League separate to that, although the founders claim there will be solidarity payments. They are describing it to benefit wider football. This comes down to money, Rosemary. Where do we hear that? Well, across all new stories really most of the time.

[03:54:53]

THOMAS: It is found (ph) to the owners of the clubs that are decided to form this breakaway leagues, six from England, three from Spain, three from Italy, particularly the American owners because they see what happens in professional U.S. sports, and they think the organizers of the current European wide competition, UEFA, who organized the champions league, don't make enough money for the top teams, which the ones they claim that global television fans really want to see.

So the proposal is to get started in the 2022 to 2023 season with 12 founding clubs. They need to find another three and then five more teams to be joined based on how they finish in their domestic leagues. Twenty teams into groups of 10 playing a league format, more matches mid-week, and then eight of those will qualify for a quarter final competition, semi-finals, and then a final.

Really, it has been met with widespread condemnation from football associations, governing bodies, not just UEFA who organized European football, the FIFA, the global body, threats of banning teams, banning players, although the super league founders say they've already initiated court proceedings to prevent any such ban.

And there is such outrage at the moment, Rosemary. It's hard to see how the dust will settle. We know that UEFA late on Monday due to announce their own restructure champions league, which is already designed to try and placate those top clubs and earn more money for the top European teams.

CHURCH: It has upset so many people. My son included. Alex Thomas, joining us live from London, many thanks.

Well, a World War II era plane made quite a splash in Florida. The pilot was forced to make a water landing when the plane's engine failed during an air show. He was the only one on board and no one was hurt, thankfully. But authorities now have to figure out how to get that plane out of the water. The FAA is investigating the incident.

And thank you so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. I'll be back with more news in just a moment. Don't go anywhere.

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