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Trump Says He'll Have to Mortgage or Sell Great Assets to Pay Bond; Secretary Austin Says 315,000 Russian Troops Killed or Wounded in Ukraine; State Department Says Up to 1,000 Americans in Haiti Asking for Help. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 19, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Mortgage or sell great assets. That's what former President Donald Trump says he will have to do to cover the massive judgment in his New York civil fraud case as he appeals the ruling.

On Truth Social this morning, Trump continued to rail against the judge in the case and make baseless accusations that his legal troubles equate to election interference, despite the fact that it is he, not President Biden, who's charged with conspiracy to overturn a free and fair election.

Joining me now is law professor at Syracuse University, investigative journalist David Cay Johnston. David, good morning.

You know, this Truth Social post, we obviously don't put all of them on T.V., but this one stood out as it just came out earlier this morning. He's basically saying he's going to have to sell off assets to get out of this situation that he's in. You've been looking into his financial situation for years. What do you make of all this? Is he going to have to sell off assets? Is that coming maybe soon.

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LAW: I think it is, and I think it's soon. Donald has some properties that are valuable, but they have underlying mortgages. And just like happens to a homeowner, Donald faces this problem. You have a first mortgage on your property. You need some money. You say, oh, I'll get a HELOC or a second mortgage. The first bank has to agree. And I think it's pretty clear the first banks are not willing to agree. So that's very limiting on Donald.

And the reason they're likely not to agree is exactly what this case is about, inflating the value of assets, claiming they're worth in some cases 16 and 30 times what the market shows that they're worth.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, David, I guess there's the issue of, I mean, does he have the money? You know, for years he has told the American people he's a billionaire. He's rich, you know, he had a show all about this, The Apprentice. He was in Home Alone 2 and so on. I mean, this has been his life portraying himself as this, you know, American story of a billionaire who is larger than life. And then all of a sudden he's saying, you know, what's going on? I have to sell off all my assets.

JOHNSTON: Well, Jim, this has always been a con. Way back in 1990, when I showed that Trump wasn't a billionaire, he went around for a couple of months calling me a liar until he had to put a document in the public record that showed that he was not a billionaire. And later, a document showing he was worth minus $325 million, which means you and I are worth more than Donald Trump, at least at that time.

Today, it's the same thing. Nine years ago, when he came down the escalator to announce his campaign, he said he was worth more than $10 billion. If you're worth $10 billion, coming up with a half a billion may be painful, but it isn't that hard.

ACOSTA: Yes. And he is saying this. I mean, we put this up on screen. He says that this bond that he has to pay is quote unconstitutional, un-American, unprecedented, practically impossible for any company, including one as successful as mine.

Again, I mean, what we may be witnessing in the coming days that he has no choice, right? He is going to have to do something, make some kind of financial maneuver here in order to post this bond.

JOHNSTON: Right. He has every right to appeal. He's already filed an appeal. And that will proceed. But in the meantime, unless he comes up with the bond or cash or persuades the intermediate appellate court in New York, to get -- allow him to post a smaller amount of money, he wants to put up $100 million, probably tells you how much cash he has access to, then the state can move to begin forcing the sale of his properties.

And the state will have a duty as will the monitor to maximize value. But this is a fire sale, Jim. It would be a fire sale if the state does it. It will be a fire sale if Donald does it. And he's known this is coming for months, and he hasn't set himself up to take care of it.

ACOSTA: And he continues to attack the judge in the case and the other civil servants overseeing these trials despite being repeatedly told not to. I mean, is there anything at this point that gets him to stop doing that, even paying this enormous bond, I suppose?

JOHNSTON: Yes. No, this is this is just who Donald is. You know, in the 2016 campaign, he was asked, well, since you're a Christian, when was the last time you asked God for forgiveness?

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And Donald said, what, what, what, why would I do that? I've never done anything in my life that requires asking forgiveness. That's who he is. He believes that he's special, that we should treat him as special, and that anything that goes against him, well, you're the bad guy. That's something the notorious Roy Cohn taught him. Law enforcement comes after you, attack them, they're dishonest, they're corrupt, you're pure and clean. And even if it's obvious that something you said isn't true, or did is wrong, you never, ever give an inch. You just maintain your lies. And he's very good at doing that, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. David Cay Johnston, I know you're an expert on all this. Thank you very much for giving us your time this morning. We really appreciate it.

All right, let's discuss more now at CNN's Kristen Holmes, former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh and founder of Democracy Docket, Mark Elias. Guys, thanks very much for being on with us.

Mark, you're there in the studio. I've got Kristen and Joe next to me. Kristen, let me start with you first. I mean, I was talking about this with David just a few moments ago. For years, and you and I know this, we're out on the campaign trail together, Trump and his aides and his allies have talked about how much money he has, how rich he is, and all of a sudden, now he's saying he has to sell off these assets. How does Trump world make any sense of this? What are they saying?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, one thing to note also is that it's kind of his professional brand and his political brand. He tells people, oh, look how rich I am. I could make you this rich if you let me into office. And that really was a selling point for him in 2016, particularly when you talk to working class voters.

Now, if you talk to his team about what exactly they're doing or what they think of this, they point to two things. They argue that there is no billionaire on this planet who is that liquid who could come up with this amount of money. They also blame the underwriters and they say that they're not going to go anything over a hundred million. And if you do talk to financial experts, there's a little bit of a gray area there because usually you don't have to come up with half a billion dollars.

ACOSTA: It's a massive amount.

HOLMES: Right. So, it's not like there's a precedent for this that they are saying this and it's not true. It's just kind of like, well, a lot of these underwriters have never been asked about half a billion dollars. They've been asked about lower sums.

But as David was saying, they've known about this for months. It's not that he just had to become liquid overnight. They had time to deal with this. So, the question is what exactly happens next. You can hear, obviously, Donald Trump is ranting on social media, saying this is unfair. I'm going to have to sell my assets. I think they hope that there is going to be a stop to this so that when they can appeal, because that's what he's arguing for, right, that he wants to say that he doesn't have to pay until after his appeal and that something will come through.

ACOSTA: But it's always about delay, delay, delay, and how far can we push this off before the bill comes to it? HOLMES: Exactly.

ACOSTA: And, Joe, I did want to ask you, and, Mark, I wanted to talk to you about this as well, Trump's continuing use of this extreme, very volatile language.

Last night, he made some comments about Jewish Democrats and Israel. Joe, you and I have talked about Israel lots of times. Let's listen to this, talk about it the other side.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Any Jewish person that votes for Democrats hates their religion, they hate everything about Israel, and they should be ashamed of themselves because Israel will be destroyed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes. Joe, what did you think when you saw that?

FMR. REP. JOE WALSH (R-IL): It's just divisive every single word Jim that he is uttering and will utter during this campaign is divisive, dividing Jewish people, dividing Americans. Look, it's not going to stop Let's -- he's the leader of the Republican Party. He's the Republican Party nominee. He's been a fraud and a conman his whole life. And this entire campaign Jim is going to be about him beginning to be held accountable for those crimes and all he's going to do is cry bitch and moan about it, but his followers love it because he's the great victim.

ACOSTA: And what else is he going to say at this point? I mean, but, Mark, I did want to go to you on this because, I mean, there was also what Trump was saying over the weekend. He keeps speaking in these very extreme terms about the potential dangers to the country if he doesn't win in November. He's used words like bloodbath and bedlam. What are your thoughts on how he keeps speaking in these terms, and what does it mean for the country?

MARK ELIAS, FOUNDER, DEMOCRACY DOCKET: Yes. So, first of all, let me just say, I am a proud Jewish Democrat. I was -- I have been a Democrat my entire life. I've been a Jew my entire life. I have in a loving community of family and other Jews who are proud Democrats. And so Donald Trump is sowing the same kind of anti-Semitic and wrongful lies that he has throughout his entire career.

But to your question, Jim, you know, we saw in 2020 that Donald Trump would say a lot of outrageous things, and it was discounted by, by many, many Republicans and too many well-intentioned people as just empty rhetoric that you should, you know, you should take him figuratively, but not literally. Well, January 6th showed us that when he wants an insurrection, he will summon an insurrection.

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So, when he says he there will be a bloodbath, it is time that we stop discounting it and stop finding ways around it and recognize that his back is against the wall. His back is against the wall in the civil cases. His back is against the wall in the criminal cases that could send him to prison. And he views as winning the presidency as his only ticket out.

So, as desperate as he was in 2020, as willing as he was to break the rule of law in 2020 and to incite an insurrection in January of 2021, he is more desperate today.

ACOSTA: And, guys, forgive me, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff, a lot of headlines. We're bouncing around from one thing to the next.

But, Joe, I did want to ask you about this, the former White House adviser, Peter Navarro, he is set to head to prison today for contempt of Congress and that conviction in that case. I mean, one of the things that we've seen time and again, people who work for Donald Trump getting themselves in legal hot water, sometimes going to prison. Your thoughts on seeing Peter Navarro reporting to prison today. I mean, that of all the headlines, I mean, that's no small thing.

WALSH: That should be a huge headline, but there's so much. To work for Trump is to lie for Trump and to commit crimes for Trump. But, Jim, Trump will use this.

And what Mark said is so true. We cannot discount this. Donald Trump wants there to be violence. He wanted there to be violence on January 6th. He will spend this entire campaign. He'll use Navarro going to prison as an excuse to foment violence.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Kristen, I mean, I know you reported on this, speaking of people in Trump world going to prison. Former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort may be coming back to the campaign.

HOLMES: Yes, not just going to prison, not just charged with several financial crimes.

ACOSTA: It's almost a revolving door.

HOLMES: But a reminder that Donald Trump hardened Paul Manafort at the end of his term, so it comes full circle here.

Now, what I am told is it's not necessarily joining the campaign, but that he has been in discussions to help with the Republican National Convention, something that Paul Manafort did in previous lifetimes, years ago.

ACOSTA: It's basically like coming to the campaign.

HOLMES: Exactly. But it's not being a campaign adviser necessarily. Now, nothing has been set in stone. They're talking about fundraising. They're talking about a role for him. But all this stems from Donald Trump himself. Donald Trump wants Paul Manafort to be part of the fold. We know Manafort has been at Mar-a-Lago visiting Donald Trump. He's kept a relationship with all these people. The other person he's kept a really close relationship with falls into the same category, Roger Stone. He was there on Super Tuesday at Mar- a-Lago, coming out with Donald Trump, almost side by side with him, with the close campaign advisers.

ACOSTA: And, Mark, what are the implications of Paul Manafort coming back into the orbit of Donald Trump? I mean, especially at a time when he owes all of this money and legal bills? I mean, there's that dimension of it, too.

ELIAS: Absolutely. And, look, make no mistake, the Republican National Convention is sponsored by the Republican National Committee. We just saw that Donald Trump put his daughter-in-law effectively in charge of the RNC. His top aides have said that he now effectively runs the RNC. And there has been a lot of speculation and talk about how it could be used as a piggy bank to meet his own financial obligations.

So, putting the likes of Paul Manafort in charge of one of the big fundraising opportunities, one of, in many respects, the least disclosed, most obscure parts of the fundraising apparatus, just goes to show you that Donald Trump wants to bring someone who has had a disgraced history back into the fold, but also into the fold in a place that, who knows, may be of use to him financially.

WALSH: By the way, the other guy, the other candidate, Joe Biden, is actually campaigning today in front of the American people, think about that, in Nevada.

ACOSTA: Nevada. And a lot of people going to the polls today, plenty to talk about on that front, but, guys, thanks very much for your time. I appreciate it, lots to talk about this morning. It was not enough time, but we try to get it all in there. I appreciate it very much.

Mark we'll get you back talk about democracy real soon.

All right, coming up despite of funding being stalled in Congress, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is making a promise to his Ukrainian counterparts. We're learning the real cost of the war for the Ukrainians as they battle the Russians. That's next.

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ACOSTA: New this morning, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin called out Vladimir Putin directly over the war in Ukraine and laid out the tremendous price Russia has paid for its aggression.

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LLOYD AUSTIN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Russia has paid a staggering cost for Putin's imperial dreams. At least 315,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded since Putin's all-out invasion in February of 2022. Russia has squandered up to $211 billion to equip, deploy, maintain and sustain its imperial aggression against Ukraine.

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ACOSTA: Secretary Austin's comments come just days after Putin solidified his autocratic grip on power in Moscow following what the west described as a sham election.

Anne Applebaum joins us now. She's a historian and staff writer for the Atlantic as well as a senior fellow at the Johns Hopkins School of International Studies. Anne, great to see as always, I really appreciated.

What do you make of Secretary Austin's comments about this price that Russia has paid? Does that even resonate inside of Russia? Do they even hear that message? Do they know the price they've paid?

ANNE APPLEBAUM, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yes. I think people do know the price. I mean, they may not know the exact numbers. Of course, Russia conceals the number of casualties from its own people. The Russians don't advertise how many airplanes they've lost or how many large ships they've lost to Ukrainian drones, and nor do they talk much about the number of refineries that the Ukrainians have managed to hit in the last few weeks using drones, you know.

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But people, of course, feel those effects. They may not be able to articulate it. They may be forbidden to speak about it. You can be arrested in Russia for criticizing the war, if somebody overhears you even in a restaurant. That happened a few months ago to a couple in central Russia. So, they feel it. They know things are wrong.

And, of course, the point of Putin's election campaign, the reason why he ran this sham election with no opponents and with no campaign was to, you know, bring home, to force Russians to accept him, you know, even though he knows he's illegitimate and he knows his war is going badly.

So, I don't think the election campaign demonstrates that, you know, it's not it's not what somebody does if they're confident. They don't have a -- they don't organize a fake election, fake opponents, yes.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And let's talk about funding for Ukraine, because, obviously, part of the point, I think, of Secretary Austin's comments is to say, despite what you see going on in Moscow and Putin solidifying his power there, I mean, the Russians are still not doing well in Ukraine, not well enough, obviously, to sweep into power in Kyiv and so on.

But what is going to happen if Ukraine does not get this funding that it desperately needs right now? And if it does happen to get it, I mean, there's been talk about perhaps providing aid in the form of loans and so on, that will just be too little too late.

APPLEBAUM: So, it's never too little and it's never too late. And we have been able to get them some funding. There's talk of going into U.S. stocks and U.S saved weapons that we have in the United States and giving them those if Congress won't allocate money.

And so the Europeans are giving weapons to Ukraine. The Czech president has started an initiative to buy ammunition around the world and that's happening. There was a recent meeting of the Polish, German and French prime ministers who are recommitted also. So, it's not as if the United States is doing this alone.

It is true that there is a gap this year. The European weapons production is not up to providing Ukraine with what it needs this year. And, really, only the United States is capable of filling that. And, of course, the Russians know that and that's why there's so much Russian propaganda. You can see it on the internet. It affects members of Congress because Putin isn't able to win on the ground but he could win through Washington. He could win through pressuring Congress to block that aid.

So, the Ukrainians do need our weapons. They do need our ammunition. They do need it this year. And the faster that Congress can get it done, the better it will do.

ACOSTA: Wow, that phrase you just used there, went through Washington, I mean, that is making me pause for a moment to just contemplate that.

And, Anne, I guess, I mean, the next logical question, the follow-up question to that would be, if Putin wins through Washington and Ukraine, which countries in Eastern Europe have to be worried next? I mean, there's been talk about Moldova, the Baltics. I mean, there are serious consequences here if he can outlast the Americans and the west and get what he wants in Ukraine.

APPLEBAUM: It's not just Eastern Europe. Putin's guns are within range, his weapons are in range of Germany. I mean, so there's Germany, Poland, the Baltic states, it would have an enormous impact on the European continent.

And, of course, there would be wider and deeper impact that I think most Americans haven't thought about. America as the security guarantor in Europe has an enormous amount of power and influence. Why do European countries spend billions of dollars on U.S. weapons? Why do they buy U.S. energy equipment? Why does the U.S. get priority in trade negotiations? All of those things are connected to the NATO guarantee in subtle ways and sometimes in open ways.

And the United States would really be the loser if we were unable to keep our word and continue to aid Ukraine, and if the loss of Ukraine means that the rest of Europe is threatened.

ACOSTA: All right. Anne Applebaum, as always, we really appreciate those insights and thanks so much for joining us this morning. I really appreciate it.

APPLEBAUM: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. Good to see you. In the meantime, as growing gang violence grips Haiti, the U.S. State Department now says up to 1,000 Americans inside the country are asking for help. This comes as ten more people were shot and killed just yesterday in an affluent neighborhood in the capital of Port-au- Prince.

Things have become so bad in the country that militias and neighborhood groups have now taken to fighting the gangs on their own as local police have become simply overwhelmed.

CNN's David Culver is in Port-au-Prince for us.

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DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Port- au-Prince feels post-apocalyptic.

This is basically the aftermath of a war zone.

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Driving through the battlegrounds between gangs and police, we dodged massive craters and piles of burning trash.

The police controlled these roads leading to Haiti's international airport, for today at least. It's been shut for weeks.

Out front, checkpoints to search for suspected gang members and an armored truck to keep watch. It sits beaten and battered.

Less than a month ago, we flew in and out on commercial flights here. Now, it's desolate.

The country is in chaos, essentially held hostage by gangs eager to expand their reign of terror. Over the weekend, more businesses looted and cars stolen, gangs leaving behind a scorched path of ruin.

We're headed to one of the last remaining hospital trauma centers that's still functioning in Port-au-Prince.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: February 29th was probably the worst.

CULVER: As soon as we meet one of the doctors, a call comes in.

Go ahead if you need to get it.

A gunshot victim heading into surgery, he takes us to him.

Most of those cases that are brought here are gunshot victims from the gang violence.

With the patient's family giving us permission, we go in as staff prepare to operate.

We're told the 24-year-old truck driver was caught in a crossfire between police and gangs. The doctor is showing me here images that are very disturbing, but they show an entry wound of a bullet basically around the temple and went right through and caused damage to at least one eye.

The doctor tells us the man has lost vision in both eyes. Another bullet hit his arm.

And so they will have to amputate his arm?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CULVER: We peer into the ICU. It's full.

Are most of these gunshot victims? All of them are.

She's in pain. She feels the pain in her leg.

And so how did it happen? Where were you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was going to the market.

CULVER: 86 years old, a reminder no one is shielded from the violence that stripped Haiti's capital in recent weeks.

Police are exhausted. One local commander telling me morale is broken and that the gangs have more money and resources than they do. Low on ammo, their squad cars, out of gas. It is personal for the commander.

He was forced out with his family from their own home and now this is his home, essentially. The police, at least in this community, do have backup in the form of local residents.

Do you feel like gangs are trying to move in and take this area?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, for sure.

CULVER: While many community leaders call for peace, they admit they're tired of feeling threatened. So much so, some have created their own checkpoints and barricades, staffed 24/7, redirecting traffic and determining who comes in.

Not everyone gets out.

You can see right here at this intersection, there's a massive burn pile. This is actually where the community takes justice into their own hands.

But a week ago is the most recent such case. They captured four suspected gang members. They brought them here, killed them with machetes and set their bodies on fire.

The gruesome vigilante acts recorded in part as a warning to the gangs. But even amid utter turmoil, life moves forward and with it moments to celebrate. Outside a church, these bridesmaids excitedly awaiting their cue to walk down the aisle. Port-au-Prince is a city now shattered by the relentless blasts of violence that have forced more than 300,000 of its residents out of their homes.

Where are you staying here? Where is your home in this facility?

Right up there?

They take refuge in places like this school, classrooms turned dorm rooms, where more than 1,500 people cram in.

So, she's showing us this is all her stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's her stuff.

CULVER: And this is where she is set up right now.

In the classroom next door, we meet this woman. Her husband killed by gang members. She and her five-year-old, like many here, have been forced to move every few weeks.

We're sleeping hungry. We're in misery, she tells me. We'd probably be better off dead than living this life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Adding to the complication for those folks is the reality that they are not only facing threats from gangs, but as they describe it to me, they're also being ostracized from the communities in which they are now essentially camping out in.

They say those neighbors don't want them there and will likewise attack them because they feel like having these refugees now within their community is drawing the gang's attention and potentially bringing more violence to their homes.

David Culver, CNN, Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

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ACOSTA: And later today, retired top military leaders will be brought up on Capitol Hill over the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. That's next.