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Trump Asks Prosecutors to Help Foot $464 Million Bond; Lawmakers Have a $1.2 Trillion Deal on the Table to Fund Government; Sources Say, DOJ to Sue Apple in Blockbuster Anti-Trust Suit. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 21, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

With just days left to pay a $464 million bond, a self-proclaimed billionaire is asking his grassroots donors to help foot the bill. Former President Donald Trump reportedly in panic mode is issuing a fundraising appeal to his supporters in which he tells Democrats to, quote, keep your filthy hands off of Trump Tower. That's after the New York attorney general suggested he turn over his prized properties if he can't cover the judgment in his civil fraud case.

Now, Letitia James is demanding that Trump explain to the appeals court why he can't find anyone to underwrite that bond. All raising the question why can't a man who constantly brags about his wealth pony up that payment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now here's the good news, I'm very rich.

I started off with a million dollar loan. I built a net worth of over $10 billion.

I would say that I'm worth more than $5 billion.

I'm very rich.

Hey, I'm rich.

This is really taxing the rich by a very rich guy.

The money you're talking about is a lot, but it's peanuts for me.

I built a very big net worth.

It's a lot of money, but I have fun.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: Now, even Trump's fundraising machine is struggling to keep up with his soaring legal bills. A new filing shows that last month, his leadership PAC spent more on legal expenses than it managed to raise.

CNN's Kara Scannell joins us now from New York. Kara, the clock is ticking for Donald Trump. What options does he have at this point?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. So, Donald Trump has said that he has tried to get bonds from 30 underwriters. No insurers will secure the bond for him. So, he can continue to try to see if he can find someone to step into that position.

Also, he could look for someone who has a deep pocket who's willing to give him some money. But, you know, he also you can talk to banks and see if he can take out a mortgage on some of his properties.

But, you know, Donald Trump has not been able to access the banking system from the largest banks in the world because most of them stopped doing business with him years ago.

And another factor here is that part of the issue in this case is a question of what is the actual value of his properties. The judge found that he had inflated the value of those properties on financial statements. You know, these are all conditions and factors that a bank would consider in deciding whether to extend credit. And they might want to take steps and do additional due diligence to understand the value of a property.

Of course, this is all within a really condensed time frame now with this being, you know, just the final four days that Trump has to come up with this money unless the appeals court steps in.

And Trump could also sell a property, although that also does take some time. And he's pushing hard against that. He doesn't want to give up any of these properties, some of which his family has called their Mona Lisas.

So, he is still fighting this very hard to try to get an appeals court to say he only has to post a fraction of the $464 million total bond that his family owes or get the appeals court to say he doesn't have to post any money until the appeal is over, which could be, you know, one or two years from now.

You know, the attorney general's office has been pushing back on this. They are opposing it. You know, they're saying with the court they now want to officially respond in writing to Trump's new claims that he can't get a bond. And they want to make that argument to the court. You know, this is going to be a continuous back and forth up until we get to Monday, Jim.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. All right, Kara Scannell, thank you very much.

Joining us now is former Federal Prosecutor Renato Mariotti. He's also the host of the podcast, It's Complicated, aptly titled. I think I've said this to you before, Renato. It is complicated when we're talking about Donald Trump.

I mean, we played that montage at the beginning of the show. I mean, to indicate, I mean, he has bragged about his immense wealth. He's claimed that he's very wealthy on numerous occasions. I mean, that was sort of his brand for running for president back in 2016. And now, all of a sudden, he's saying he doesn't have the money or he doesn't want to have to sell these properties.

Legally, what happens if he refuses to pay or doesn't pay by this Monday deadline?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: If he doesn't pay on time, collection efforts will move forward. And what's going to look like is, essentially, the attorney general's office trying to put liens on various properties, trying obtain his interest in those properties.

[10:05:08]

Notice I'm saying his interests in the properties not the property themselves because, of course, lenders presumably have a very substantial interest on a lot of these properties.

That whole process is going take some time. It's not like a button is pressed and suddenly a lot of his properties belong to the state of New York. What's going to happen is process will start, Trump is going to have to pay lawyers to try to participate in that process. Liens are going to be put on properties. He's going to have deal with lenders who are concerned about their priority. It's going to be disruptive to his business. And it really raises the question, if he has the money, why didn't he plan for this contingency?

ACOSTA: Right. And if you add up all the Trump New York properties, we were just showing this on screen, I mean, I guess that fire sale value, I suppose, comes to around $469 million. That's just enough to cover the bond.

But I this also raises the prospect, Renato, that he faces maybe the specter of bankruptcy in all of this. What's your sense of it?

MARIOTTI: Well, either one of two things is the case. Either he just does not have the wealth that has put himself out there as having, which you showed a moment ago. If he's worth $10 or $5 billion, as he claims, then he is not going to be facing bankruptcy. He's got a liquidity issue.

But if he really doesn't have the funds, yes, that bankruptcy is on the table. And, really, one of the two things that are happening here, either he has totally mismanaged the situation. He now has to sell properties, as you put it, in a fire sale or refinance many properties at a time when lenders are going to take a dim view of his veracity and loan applications, or he's going have to potentially a bankruptcy.

ACOSTA: And, Renato, I understand you represent large real estate developers. You've seen cases like this before, maybe not quite like this, but similar to this. Is Trump getting treated any differently than typical clients in this case?

I mean, just a few moments ago, Kara was talking about how there might be a bit of a back and forth between the New York Attorney General's Office and the appeals court over all of this. He has been afforded so many opportunities to delay paying the piper on a variety of fronts. Might he get that kind of treatment yet again in this particular case?

MARIOTTI: Well, I certainly know my clients wouldn't. It's not uncommon when you are facing a judgment and you've lost at the trial level, you post a bond. I mean, the alternative is simply the collection efforts go forward.

From the plaintiff's perspective, they want a trial and they want to get their money. If you want it delay it for years, they want to make sure the money will still be there at the end of the process.

The real difference between Donald Trump and other people who are in this situation is that most people plan for this in advance. They sell properties in advance. They refinance if they really have the money. Donald Trump either doesn't have money or he just has not planned.

ACOSTA: All right. Renato Mariotti, to be continued, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

It is going to a sprint to the finish line in Washington today with less than 48 hours before a shutdown deadline tomorrow night. Lawmakers are working on a $1.2 trillion plan to keep the government running.

Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is following this story for us. Manu, we knew they were going take it right to the Brink, right the last second. How are things going on all of this? Are they going to get there?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, this is almost six months after they were supposed to take action here. Remember, October 1st of last year was the deadline in which they would keep the government open. They had to do short-term extension after short-term extension.

That first short time extension led to the ouster of Kevin McCarthy. So, this has been an incredibly messy process that has led this point. And they even bailed this massive $1.2 trillion bill to fund major federal agencies, more than 1,000 pages at length at about 3:00 in the morning this morning, and they need to pass it by 11.59 P.M. tomorrow night to avoid a government shutdown.

That has caused a lot of anger within the ranks, because most members of Congress have not seen this. This is a cut between the leadership on both sides, the Appropriations Committees, as well as the White House. Now, the members have to try to pore over the details and vote on this. It is still expected to past, but there is a lot of grumbling, there's a of members, especially on the right side of Speaker Johnson's conference who believed that this deal was simply insufficient and they're also very critical of the process. Listen.

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RAJU: You've lost confidence in him?

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I know that we have to do better, and that's why I'm trying to get us better players. We can't run the plays I want to run. We don't have a sufficient number of members who believe in the bold action it's going to take to save the country.

RAJU: Do you think you guys should shut it down?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I do, 100 percent.

RAJU: Even though you may get blowback for that?

BURCHETT: Yes, but it's the right thing. Let's do something unusual in Washington, do something, because it's the right thing and not because it's politically advantageous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, even though he's advocating for a shutdown there, that one congressman, Tim Burchett of Tennessee, that is not the view of the Republican leadership in the House. They're trying to avoid one. But can they actually avoid a short-term shutdown? That is a big question here.

We do expect the House to pass this bill despite the little time here, sometime tomorrow. Then the Senate, all 100 senators need to agree to schedule a vote. One senator can drag it out as long as he or she wants. It's uncertain whether it will spill into the weekend. Ultimately, Jim, it will pass, but, potentially, it could be a shutdown could occur over the weekend. Whether there will be minimal damage given that it's a weekend, but it could certainly occur.

ACOSTA: Yes, we can shut down, still a shutdown, although it might be brief. We'll keep our fingers crossed. Manu Raju, thank you very much.

Joining me now is California Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. He sits on the House Judiciary and House Homeland Security Committees. Congressman, good morning.

I'm going to start off right there with what Manu was talking about. You know, is the government going to shut down this weekend?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): It's not, and it's because Democrats, once again, will deliver the votes to keep it open. And, Jim, this is something you've never seen in the history of Congress, you've never seen in the history of any parliament across the world, where the minority party continuously provides the majority votes to keep government functioning.

We've done this to pay our bills and lift the debt ceiling. We've done this every time we've come close to a shutdown. And we're going to do it again tonight, because we believe in governing, and Republicans, you know, they believe in ruling and chaos that comes with trying to be a ruling party rather than a governing party. ACOSTA: And, Congressman, I do want to ask you about something on a different front related to the House. The House speaker, Mike Johnson, is expected to invite Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress about the war in Gaza. What's your response to that?

I can remember the last time Netanyahu did this during the Obama administration, during a Democratic administration, and the Obama White House was not happy about that. What about this time around? Are there concerns among Democrats about this?

SWALWELL: Real concerns, especially if it's not done in sync with the White House. We need to make sure that the White House, the president who's charged with carrying out our foreign policy, is on board with this.

Because while we stand with Israel in its right to defend itself, that doesn't mean we have to stand with Netanyahu, who certainly does not share our values of seeing a two-state solution, it does not share our values of getting humanitarian aid into Gaza.

And so this should be done in accordance with the priorities of the president. And I don't want to see a repeat of what happened back during the Iran nuclear deal negotiations.

ACOSTA: And I do want to ask you about what took place during the House Republican impeachment hearing yesterday, but I did want to ask you, because we were talking about this at the top of the program with Kara Scannell and Renato Mariotti. There have been some political analysts who have said that Trump's financial situation could become something of a national security risk. He has indicated he may have to sell his assets at fire sale prices.

Some have raised the question, who is going to be buying those properties? What does that mean for this presidential campaign? If it comes to that, what is your view on that?

SWALWELL: This is a real national security risk, Jim. I mean, one, it turns out he doesn't have the money he's told us that he has. But, two, he has a prior history of wanting to do business deals with sketchy foreign nationals.

As a presidential candidate, he tried to do the largest hotel deal he's ever done in Moscow. As president, his daughter received 22 patents and trademarks from the Chinese government. His son-in-law was working on a $2 billion deal with the Saudi government right as he exited the White House. And, of course, the president owned and operated a hotel just across the street from the White House, where he took millions of dollars from foreign nationals who stayed at that hotel while he was president.

And so he has priors. He's in acute financial state right now, and so it just makes me worried that a potential president could be so tied to a country that may not have our interests in mind.

ACOSTA: And getting back to the House impeachment hearing yesterday on President Biden, you were there. You even declared the investigation's time of death during the hearing. Does that mean it's dead, or does it live on? What's the latest?

SWALWELL: Rig-a-mortis, Jim, it's not dead. It's beyond dead. And, look, you know how I know it's dead? Their key witness yesterday testified from the slammer via Zoom.

[10:15:02]

I mean, that's how desperate they are right now to put something on a president who they've never accepted as legitimate. They don't have the evidence, and because they don't have the evidence, they don't have the votes.

And so I promise you, Jim, we will never see a vote to impeach Joe Biden in this Congress which essentially is an acquittal. And we need to start declaring it as such because, otherwise, Republicans will falsely define the narrative here.

ACOSTA: Yes. And quickly, one last question, Congressman. I mean, you represent California. Apparently, the Justice Department will file this anti-trust lawsuit against Apple, according to three people familiar with the matter that we've spoken with. And this lawsuit comes after years of allegations by critics that Apple has harmed competition with its app store, the terms and the fees there. What's your response to all of that? Do you think that's a healthy thing? What do you think?

SWALWELL: Well, Jim, Apple is one of the largest employers in our area. I know this issue well being on the Judiciary Committee. And I actually do think a company like Apple or a company like Google or Samsung has a right to curate its own app store.

And my fear is that if they don't have the right to decide who can be in the app store, that it could be flooded with, say, Chinese apps or Russian apps, and it would be a flea market of sorts, and that could affect American consumers. So, that's my fear of going down this road with a company like Apple.

ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Swalwell, thank you very much for your time this morning, we appreciate it.

SWALWELL: My pleasure. Yes, thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, thank you. In the meantime, right there on your screen, we're just showing it a few moments ago, the Dow Jones, there it is, flirting with the milestone, 40,000, the 40,000 mark for the first time. We're going to keep an eye on all of this right now. It's about 140 away from that, if my math serves me correct, at this hour. We'll keep an eye on all of that and get back to you if that happens.

Stay with us.

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[10:20:00]

ACOSTA: All right, some breaking news on our top story. Lawyers for Donald Trump say their Monday court filing was appropriate in the matter of raising the bond money in his civil fraud case because it included information they learned within the past week that 30 underwriters said they would not secure a bond and that that was timely.

The back and forth comes as the stakes are high for Trump who has just four days to satisfy this judgment or sway an appeals court to allow him to post a smaller amount or defer posting the payment until after the appeal, if no arrangement is set.

The New York attorney general, Letitia James, has said she will take steps to seize assets in this new filing. Trump's lawyers also pushed back on several suggestions made by the New York attorney general on Wednesday, including that Trump could get several underwriters to secure bonds totaling that judgment. Of course, we're going to stay on all of that as it develops.

But in the meantime, some other breaking news to tell you about just happening this morning, we're following sources, they're telling us that the Department of Justice will file a blockbuster anti-trust lawsuit against Apple, this after years of allegations that Apple's app store policies have given an unfair advantage and hurt its rivals.

CNN's Brian Fung is covering this for us. Brian, we all have -- I mean, and I shouldn't say we have iPhones. Some of us don't have iPhones, I suppose, but a lot of us do. So, I mean, this is going to affect millions of Americans.

And, I mean, it was anticipated that the DOJ was going to do something like this, potentially, but it sets up a huge fight between the government and Apple.

BRIAN FUNG, CNN TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Yes, Jim. As you said, there were years of allegations by critics of Apple saying that it is an illegal monopolist basically trying to keep users within its walled garden ecosystem through, you know, a web of complex terms and conditions and high fees that are charged to, among other people, Apple users, and that that inhibits innovation, prevents new apps from entering the marketplace, prevents forms of mobile payments and other new technologies from entering the market.

And so I think what we're going to see here is a big swing by the Biden administration against one of the largest, most wealthiest companies in the world. And this, of course, is the last main major tech giant to be sued by the Biden administration or the U.S. government since, you know, companies including Meta, Google, Apple and Amazon were all named in a House investigation about their alleged monopolistic behavior.

And so, this is really the culmination of many, many years of scrutiny of the tech giants. Jim?

ACOSTA: And just to follow up on that, Brian, I mean, maybe it's because I am not as adept when it comes to the tech issues. But when I go on my app phone, when I go into the app store, I don't get everything under the sun available to me. Apple keeps some of that out in sort of an unfair way. Is that essentially what the government is alleging?

FUNG: That is the allegation that lots of people have leveled at Apple, that Apple uses its terms to essentially control what you have access to through its app story, and that it has a monopoly on what you see in the app store.

ACOSTA: Interesting. All right, Brian Fung, we know that that's coming up, the announcement, top of the hour, right around the top of hour. So, we're going to be watching that very closely. Brian, thank you very much.

Let's go back to our breaking news we were just talking about a few moments ago, former President Donald Trump calling the bond suggestions from the New York attorney general and practical and unjust.

Let us discuss now at CNN's Alayna Treene and Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, I mean, this is creeping up on everybody as potentially very big distraction for Donald Trump. I mean, it already is.

[10:25:01]

And this ability, we were talking about this with Renato Mariotti at the top of the program, if Trump doesn't have the ability to pay this bond, I mean, it sets up a whole slew of pretty dire circumstances for the former president.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, and I think, first and foremost, when you sort of take a bigger look at all this, because it can sort of seem like all these court filings run together.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ZELENY: The reason this matters more than others is being a big businessman, being a billionaire, which he's not, but being a wealthy businessman is at the core of who he is. That really brought him to the table here. So, this affects him personally in ways that really nothing else does except his family maybe. I mean, so this is something that hits to core that.

So, by Monday, when they have to sort of make a decision to declare bankruptcy or to find a way to secure this bond, that's why this gets to him, I think. So, that is why, despite the back and forth of this case or that case, that's why this one is different because it goes to the core of who he is.

ACOSTA: Yes. But, Alayna, I mean, the prospect of authorities in New York padlocking buildings, seizing buildings, it sounds crazy to think about that that could potentially happen. But Renato was saying at the beginning of the program, no, no that sort of thing could happen.

What is going on inside the Trump campaign? How are they responding to some of this? I know we were reporting that Trump was in panic mode and they pushed back on that. ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Donald Trump himself, I should say, personally is very worried about this. And, yes, in private, but you're also seeing him air those grievances in public. You saw him post repeatedly to Truth Social about this. He's very frustrated. He is very worried.

And, look, I think this is a huge concern. We know that they're reaching out to wealthy donors, to supporters, trying to see what they can do to potentially make a difference here and also are really hoping that the attorney general and the judge come up with some sort of option that may alleviate the situation for him.

But at the same time, I mean, his team also is in such dire financial situations. We saw some of the financial reports last night just of what they're raising. They're far behind the Biden campaign and the money that they are raising.

And all of these judgments, the trials, he still has a lot of legal expenses that he needs to pay for, they are very much weighing on the campaign. They recognize that are far in the money game, especially when you compare it to what Biden is raising.

So, this is just another component of that that is really putting a lot of pressure on Donald Trump as well as his campaign.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, we've been talking for months about the collective weight of all of these criminal prosecutions, but the financial bill that is coming for Donald. Trump, I mean, this really could wreak a lot of havoc.

Jeff, let me get into this other big headline that we're seeing in the last 24 hours, that Donald Trump is contemplating putting Marco Rubio on his ticket this fall. Let's -- but as you and I both know, Trump and Rubio have a bit of a checkered past.

ZELENY: They do.

ACOSTA: Let's play a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Donald Trump has been perhaps the most vulgar -- No, I don't think perhaps the most vulgar person to ever aspire to the presidency in terms of how he's carried out his candidacy

We have a con artist as the frontrunner in the Republican Party, a guy who has made a career out of telling people lies.

But we cannot allow the conservative movement to be taken over by a con artist.

TRUMP: So, when little Marcos fuses crap about the size of my hands, which are big, the size of hand, though, I looked at him, I said, Marco.

Little Marco.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The memories, Jeff. You know, I can sit back and watch that all day, but let's not.

ZELENY: I mean, cue the soundtrack. But, look, I mean, the reality is that, since then, Marco Rubio, he essentially came to heal and he has been on Trump's side ever since. So, he -- I don't know if he apologized specifically for some of those remarks, but he basically did and he's been on Trump's side for the last eight years.

So, look, we are at the beginning phase now of a very public vetting for a vice president that is going to go on, that the Trump campaign and the former president himself are going to use this as a trial balloon to try and see what the reaction is, but also to see how these candidates could potentially start sucking up and helping him with fundraising and other things.

So, I think it makes a lot of sense that Senator Rubio would be in the next one. The problem here is, and I remember this as well, is they're both from Florida. So, there are deep constitutional questions if both the vice president and the president could be from Florida.

We remember back in the 2000 campaign, of course, Dick Cheney had to change his Texas registration to Wyoming, where he was actually from, well, he was born in Nebraska, so, he would not be in same state as George W. Bush.

ACOSTA: And with Trump and Rubio, I guess Trump could move back to New York if the building isn't padlocked. I mean, I suppose that might be an issue.

TREENE: He could, but I think that's unlikely.

ACOSTA: Yes. But, I mean, Alayna, you know, this does, I think, illustrate how dominant, I mean, how much control Donald Trump is over the Republican Party right now. His daughter-in-law is over at the RNC. People like Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, they're now Trumpists.

[10:30:01]

TREENE: Oh, absolutely. I mean -- and just watching that clip back again, to ever think that potentially Rubio could become Donald Trump's running mate.