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Moscow Terror Attack Kills At Least 133, Injures More Than 100; Fulton County District Attorney Vows To Push Georgia Subversion Case; Catherine, Princess Of Wales, Reveals Cancer Diagnosis; VP Harris Visits Parkland Shooting Site, Pushes New Gun Laws; Trump Has 2 Days Left To Secure $464 Million Bond As NY AG Takes First Steps To Seize Assets; One-On-One With Rep. Jasmine Crockett (D-TX). Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 23, 2024 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
WHITFIELD: That is insane. Hey, but you got to play to win.
SANDOVAL: But there is chance, right?
WHITFIELD: You got to have at least one ticket to be that one in 300,000. Oh, boy. All right, well, fingers for both of us.
Polo Sandoval, thank you so much.
SANDOVAL: Thanks, Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, the CNN NEWSROOM with Omar Jimenez starts right now.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: You're on the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Omar Jimenez in New York. We're going to begin with new details into a horrific attack on a concert venue in Moscow.
Just hear that onslaught of gunfire as people are running for their lives there. That shocking video shows those concert goers running as attackers go on a shooting rampage inside the popular music hall and shopping center Friday night. Officials say more than 130 people are dead and dozens others injured. ISIS is claiming responsibility for the massacre.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen has been following the story closely and joins us with the latest.
So, Fred, what more are Russian officials saying about the suspects here?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Omar. Yes, one of the interesting things that they're not saying is they're not saying that they believe that ISIS was actually behind all this. Of course we know that there is that claim by ISIS at the same time the U.S. says they have no reason to doubt that claim of responsibility from ISIS. The Russians so far not going in that direction yet. They say that they've apprehended 11 people so far. They say four of
them are the attackers who went inside that shopping center and events center near Moscow on Friday night and shot that place up. The investigation of that of course still ongoing. At the same time you still actually have firefighters and rescue crews on the scene there as the blaze isn't fully out.
Here's what we're learning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (voice-over): The burnt-out shell of the Crocus City Hall just outside Moscow. Even half a day after the attacks, parts of the rubble still smoldering. The local governor surveying the places where gunmen killed so many.
Two here and three there, Governor Andrey Vorobyov asks. Three here, they say.
Hundreds of firefighters still on the scene of what Russian President Vladimir Putin called, quote, "a bloody and barbaric attack." His security services on high alert.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): In all regions of the country, additional antiterrorists and antisabotage measures have been introduced. The main thing now is to prevent those who are behind this bloodbath from committing a new crime.
PLEITGEN: It was Friday evening when the attackers went on their rampage, firing at people point blank, eyewitnesses say, killing men, women, and children, then setting the concert hall ablaze. Friends and family standing by hoping for news of their loved ones. Authorities searching for the many still missing.
I don't know what to do, this man says, desperate for news of his wife. I feel completely hopeless.
Moscow's hospitals flooded with dozens of injured. Russian authorities say the death toll will likely continue to rise.
JOHN KIRBY, NSC STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS COORDINATOR: Thank you in advance for your patience.
PLEITGEN: The U.S. said it had warned Moscow about the threat of a terror attack and ISIS has claimed responsibility. But Russian authorities seem intent on blaming someone else. After several arrests overnight, the Kremlin pointing the finger at Kyiv.
PUTIN (through translator): All four direct perpetrators of the terrorist attack, all those who shot and killed people were found and detained. They tried to hide and moved towards Ukraine where according to preliminary data a window was prepared for them on the Ukrainian side to cross the state border.
PLEITGEN: Ukraine denies the allegations. Kyiv saying they had nothing to do with the attack. Near the scene of the attack, many are laying flowers in memory of the victims. Vladimir Putin has declared Sunday a day of mourning, promising a Russia united in grief, and retribution and oblivion for those behind the attack.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (on-camera): And you know, Omar, as far as the death toll is concerned, it is the worst terror attack in Russia in several decades. Now, the Russians this evening are saying that the interrogations of the suspects are continuing. They also say that none of the suspects have a Russian citizenship -- Omar.
JIMENEZ: And Fred, of course, there are fears that that's a death toll that could rise even higher as well. Thank you so much for your reporting.
I want to go to more analysis on this, so let's turn to CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier.
And so, Kim, I just want to start with, are you surprised at the scale of this massive attack on Moscow?
[16:05:06]
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, you think of Moscow as the capital of a country that is waging a war next door and regularly deals with things like drone strikes. So I was surprised that there wasn't a higher level of security able to respond faster. At the same time, this was four attackers in a packed venue, thousands of people, with high capacity, high-powered rifles.
I think it just shows the deadliness of that type of weapon. I also think that there will be questions asked about the lack of response time but, you know, the U.S. had warned that there might be some sort of attack, at the same time the FSB had foiled a planned ISIS attack it said against a synagogue. So perhaps the Russians thought that they'd already captured the plotters.
JIMENEZ: Yes, and, you know, as Fred reported and as you just mentioned, the U.S. did warn Russia about a possible attack, but do you think the rocky relationship between the two countries may have led Russia to ignore the critical intel here or at the very least be skeptical of what the U.S. may have been saying here?
DOZIER: Well, Russia and the U.S. used to have really good and close cooperation especially after 9/11 on counterterrorism. That said, especially the way the two nations are at odds right now, that means that, yes, the U.S. probably shared as much as it felt it could. But you really only trust intelligence when you can see a lot of the sources and methods the way that intelligence analysts came to their judgment, that this is something that might be coming to pass.
And the U.S. might have been very limited on how much of that detail it could share because it didn't want to reveal what it had penetrated in terms of networks, et cetera to Russian intelligence services. So perhaps the warning was fairly generic and it wasn't enough for the Russians to track down on their side of things. JIMENEZ: Yes. And look, while it appears at this point that this
attack was perpetrated by ISIS, Russia, of course, is in the middle of its war with Ukraine and the Kremlin has pointed out, saying these suspects were arrested trying to cross into Ukraine, according to state media outlets, while a Ukrainian defense official says it's false and just absurd for Putin to claim that Ukraine was involved in this attack at all.
And I'm just curious from your perspective, do you expect Putin to keep up that line of at the very least, allegations as he tries to rally Russians to support this ongoing war?
DOZIER: Yes, Putin is looking for a fall guy. They've got to blame this on someone other than the Russian security services, someone other than a Russian president who has put all of his attention on an offensive war next door, as opposed to protecting his own people from an ongoing ISIS threat. I mean, ISIS has attacked the Russian embassy in Afghanistan and there have been several plots that the FSB, the Russian security services, have talked about disrupting over the past several weeks and months so the threat is real.
He doesn't want to be left holding the bag and he needs to gin up more support as you say from his own people for this continuing war in Ukraine. So he's putting enough chaff out there to muddy this picture and make people look over the border at Ukrainians. I'll be interested to see if the U.S. decides to declassify some more of its own intelligence to say no, this wasn't Kyiv. This was ISIS all by itself.
JIMENEZ: Yes. Yes. It'll be interesting to see how the information develops coming out of this. Obviously still an ongoing investigation here.
Kim Dozier, thank you so much for the time.
All right. Fani Willis, the Fulton County district attorney leading Georgia's election subversion case against former president Trump is speaking out for the first time since the hearing that could have removed her from the case. And the prosecutor tells CNN today, she doesn't believe Georgia's case has been slowed down and is warning President Trump, quote, "the train is coming."
CNN's Rafael Romo joins us now with the latest.
Rafael, your team spoke with the district attorney just a short time ago. What's she say?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Omar. It was our very dedicated producer Jaide Timm-Garcia who managed to get that interview. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis spent her Saturday at an Easter egg hunt. The event was put together by WAVE, an organization of law enforcement officers dedicated to helping children and the homeless throughout the year.
Willis was surprisingly candid, Omar, regarding questions about the last few months of her life, including her Georgia election interference case against Donald Trump and the scandal brought about by her romantic relationship with the special prosecutor she appointed for the case. After everything that's happened, we wanted to know if she feels she needs to reclaim her reputation and this was her reply. Let's take a listen.
[16:10:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FANI WILLS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I don't feel like my reputation needs to be reclaimed. Let's say it for the record, I'm not embarrassed about anything I've done. You know, I guess my greatest crime is I had a relationship with a man, but that's not something that I find embarrassing in any way and I know that I have not done anything that's illegal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMO: And Omar, you may remember that the racketeering case was delayed by two months following the embarrassing revelations about her personal life. Her credibility was also damaged in the eyes of Judge Scott McAfee, but the embattled Fulton County district attorney said her team never, never left the main case. It was not delayed because of stoppage working on the case. This is how she put it. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIS: All while that was going on we were writing response and briefs. We were still doing the case in the way that it needed to be done. I don't feel like we've been slowed down at all. I do think that there are efforts to slow down this train, but the train is coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMO: You heard that, right, Omar. She said the train is coming. As CNN reported exclusively on Thursday, Willis plans to press ahead with her goal of putting Donald Trump on trial before the November election. According to three people familiar with her plans, she also intends to ask the judge presiding over the Georgia criminal case to schedule a trial date as soon as this summer.
And finally, and this is very important to remember, Omar, Willis is seeking to get reelected in November. A lot on her plate. Back to you.
JIMENEZ: Yes, a lot on her plate and a lot on the former president's plate as we may see play out over the course of this year.
Rafael Romo, thank you so much.
Also a global outpouring of love and support tonight for Princess Kate after her shocking cancer revelation that put an end to months of at times wild speculation. But it also sparks new concern about her and the royal family.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll have more coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:16:40]
JIMENEZ: Tonight, the princess of Wales is reclaiming her story taking two minutes and 13 seconds to puncture some pretty wild rumors and shock the world by revealing she's in a fight for her life against cancer.
CNN's Max Foster is live tonight in London.
Max, what is the latest that we've heard from the palace here?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, absolutely nothing. It's been a massive turnaround, I have to say, and sentiment. A real sense of panic, fear. Yesterday hadn't seen Kate for so long. A lot of mystery around that and a lot of questions about how the palace was acting. And then that extraordinary video came out from the princess explaining why she hadn't revealed more detail sooner.
And that was because there was a long process of dealing with major surgery as we now know, and then getting the diagnosis, going into the treatment for that. So chemo starting in late February, I've been told, and then really dealing with the kids and how they can, you know, process this and not be at school at the same time. So they broke up from school yesterday. So that was an opportunity for the rest of the world to be informed and Kate and William to really sort of huddle down with the kids.
And it's been made very clear by Kate and William that they now really want some privacy and they're really appealing to the media and the public to get that privacy because she needs to recover. They need to protect the kids. And, you know, when you speak to people in London throughout the day, a very different tone today, not the questions I've been asked endlessly about where is she. Much more about, you know, I hope she's OK or, you know, how should we act now.
People want to talk about it still but they've stepped back from the debate. A lot more on the conversation online has really calmed down as well. Few questions still about the medical condition, people are genuinely concerned about her. So we're joined by Dr. Tiffany Troso- Sandoval, who is an expert in this area of medicine.
Thank you so much for joining us, Doctor. I mean, we have been asked to respect the princess' privacy. They're not going to tell us what type of cancer this is, but just take us through, you know, the mindset of a patient in this position and how important privacy is in the recovery process.
DR. TIFFANY TROSO-SANDOVAL, EXPERT MEDICAL ONCOLOGIST: Yes, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me here. And let me just take one moment to express how deeply sorry I am for the princess and her family to have to endure this cancer journey, and that my heart does go out to them.
As for her mindset, this is one of the difficult parts of being a young woman, married, children, or any person that's undergoing cancer therapy. There's a lot of overwhelm and fear, especially lack of understanding of what's going on. There's a lot for her to deal with emotionally, not to mention physically.
FOSTER: In terms of what -- she can say, of course, as you know, patient privacy is something everyone deserves, right, medical privacy. But in terms of -- we know that she's got chemo and we would know that she's in the early stages of that. Just let us know about how she can actually get too much information about that because, you know, we don't know how she's going to respond to the chemo. And it could go on for a very long time, couldn't it? It could be over relatively soon as well.
[16:20:04]
TROSO-SANDOVAL: Sure. So this is a difficult situation for any doctor to sort of comment on this because the last thing you want your doctor to do is to speculate at all. We work -- we're scientists, we work with facts. That being said, we know what cancers are most common to occur in this manner. And the good thing is that they did mention that there's -- the cancer is in early stage. It was found unexpectedly, and that this is preventative or in other words adjuvant chemotherapy that you hopefully help prevent the cancer from coming back. So we are most likely looking at a curious situation.
FOSTER: She's only 42. I think that was one of the big shocks here, certainly in the U.K. Such a young, vibrant figure being diagnosed with cancer. And I think what's really resonating with a lot of our audience is that could have happened to me. And it was only discovered because she was going in for another procedure. How can people respond to that themselves? How can they be sure that they don't have cancer?
I know it sounds like a ridiculous question, but that's what a lot of people are asking today.
TROSO-SANDOVAL: There are course. You know, the other thing to know is that we don't know a lot of the other details. I don't know if there's a family history of cancer in Kate's family. I don't know what other risk factors she may have medically to predispose her to cancer and I certainly wouldn't want all of our 40-year-old women walking around to think that they are walking time bombs waiting to have cancer because they're not.
It's extremely rare. And most of the time as long as you know your body, you will notice that there's something abnormal and you have to bring it to your doctor's, you know, attention and make sure that you advocate for yourself. Especially if you don't go -- you're getting the answers that you would.
I would suspect that they knew something was wrong, obviously, because Kate went for -- they called it advance surgical procedure. And so this was -- there was something wrong and she knew it. And, you know, obviously she didn't expect it to be cancer but her body told her when there was something wrong which just sought out the attention that she needed.
FOSTER: Yes, and listen to -- (CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: I'm sorry. Carry on. Yes.
TROSO-SANDOVAL: I was just going to mention that there are many routine screening examination that are normally recommended for young women. Routine mammogram that usually begun in the 40s. Cervical examinations with the pap smear, Colonoscopies have been moving earlier and earlier in a patient's lifetime to screen for early colon cancer as well. So I think it's very important to remember to keep a regular follow up with your doctors and for screening.
FOSTER: OK. Dr. Tiffany Troso-Sandoval, really appreciate your expertise today. Still a big talking point, but, Omar, I think the talking point has not died down. This huge conversation, one that I've never really seen before over a period of weeks, how it all exploded into these conspiracy theories has finally calmed down. I think a lot of people are paying tribute actually to the honesty that Kate showed in that video.
And I think people. You know, are minded now to give that privacy to rebuild herself, but also to protect her family.
JIMENEZ: Yes. And I think I'm speaking for everyone when it was incredible to see how wild some of these conspiracies got. But of course, a negative truth here. And at least clarity from the princess.
Max, thank you for that interview and thank you for your reporting throughout all of this.
Meanwhile former president Trump has long hinged his reputation on his business empire and wealth, but he now has just two days to come up with half a billion dollars or see pieces of that empire chipped away. His last-minute options ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:28:15]
JIMENEZ: Right now Vice President Kamala Harris is in Parkland, Florida, pushing new initiatives to curb gun violence across America. Let's listen in.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And what I saw then here after I spent time with the families during the walkthrough. It is extraordinarily tragic. These were beautiful people who I've come to know through their family members. They are so much bigger and more than statistics. They should be so much bigger and more than subject to politics or gamesmanship.
We're talking about beautiful people who each in different ways were heroes in the context of their community, be it their family, their classroom, or their lives. Everything from -- I may leave out some but I'm thinking about all of them but from who was an extraordinary swimmer and received scholarship to a veterans of armed services, to older brothers and younger sisters of their siblings. Beautiful people whose lives were tragically taken by an act of
violence. You know part of what I talked with the families about is the fact that one in five families in America (INAUDIBLE) to gun violence.
[16:30:18]
And the leading cause of death of children of America is gun violence.
Some of us think about the parents of the children who were lost. It wasn't a car accident. It wasn't some former cancer. I was gun violence.
And what I saw here, after I spent time with the families during the walk through of the building where these crimes occurred, is frozen in time, high school classrooms.
They are still in the configurations that they were in on the Valentine's Day six years ago. Along with this frozen in time where there was a classroom that was known for having a teacher that was pretty straight.
The teacher ventured to the students, hey, can't we be a little bit more informal today? Let it -- having your desk lined up in a row, have them pointing to face each other?
Other classrooms that are frozen in time since, the last classwork of that era are still on desks, which is gathering dust. Frozen in time.
On some of the desks is snacks that students were eating. And on the whiteboard and plastered against the wall, various advantages of the teacher clearly students given the students. I saw lemons. It's something "no excuses allowed."
It said "tablets and clearly (INAUDIBLE) and homework had been done. Frozen in time.
(INAUDIBLE) so rightly, so good, so injured by those. Those injuries that in acts and violence like this are seen and also invisible.
The trauma that results in this kind of violence that takes place every day in America. (INAUDIBLE) that occurred six years ago.
For the most part, we'll all try to mitigate the pain that will never completely heal.
We have to understand (INAUDIBLE) also when we're doing a reflect and review, and there's a study of what happened here at Stoney Douglas? And we must be willing to have the courage to say that on every level, you talk about changing laws or changing practices on guns that we must do better.
The families here have been extraordinary leaders and advocates. I -- that, on behalf of them, the families that we meet, we might never know their need. Advocating for issues like understanding many of the parents and the
families telling me that the way that they are constructing schools, it's based on the only conceivable emergency being potentially a fire.
And so constructing the alarm systems and evacuation systems based on a fire alarm, or some families here, we've not seen, and I think I have this right, any major fatalities in terms of the students dying by a fire in school. But this happened (INAUDIBLE)
We have learned lessons about what we need to do in terms of how we construct schools in terms of the safety of a classroom.
[16:35:03]
I saw in this moment frozen in time the classroom doors where locks really work and where they're supposed to be in order to protect the children, the students and their teachers.
Looking at it in the context of what we are doing is just one of the protocols when there is an active-shooter drill that has trained everyone appropriately.
Thinking about how we can do better in terms of empowering families and communities when there is knowledge that someone might be a harm, that will cause harm to themselves or others.
And I believe it's smart in terms of how we allow people to share that information so that communities and schools and parents can not only protect themselves but help others.
How we're upgrading our systems. You know, technologies have come a long way than when most of our schools were constructed. Do we have systems of communication that actually talk with each other, technologically.
And if anyone says, well, this is a matter of resources, I'd invite you to really consider the resources in our children and school officials that we have lost because of what has been happening in our country.
And I want to talk specifically, as the head of the White House Office on Gun Violence Prevention, about what we must do to continue to elevate our collective concern and empathy around the tragedy in a way that we translate it into solutions.
Part of what the president and I have been able to do is invest about a billion dollars into, as of now, about 14,000 new mental health professionals being dispatched to our public schools.
To be a resource in the school that, hopefully, the way that the protocols are developed will not only be there to react to a concern but will also be there to engage in prevention through intervention and detection.
And training those professionals with the information that we actually have that helps people to see the signs and then communicate them by obligation and by responsibility so that we can avoid predictable tragedies.
Red Flag Laws. Red Flag Laws are simply designed to allow communities a vehicle through which they can share and have somewhere to share it information about the concern about the potential danger or the crying out for help of an individual and then let's give it to them before tragedy occurs.
You know, there are only about 21 states that have passed Red Flag Laws. So part of why I'm here today is to challenge every state to pass a Red Flag Law. See how these leaders and these parents, through their --
JIMENEZ: All right, you have been watching Vice President Kamala Harris speaking at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, of course, the site of that horrific 2018 school shooting there.
I want to bring in Kevin Liptak to talk a little bit about the substance of what she's talking about here.
Obviously, pushing new policies to curb gun violence. Some of what -- some of the like that happened at that school now, a few years ago.
Kevin, I'm curious what stood out to you along with the significance of her being there?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. And you heard her really describing the experience of touring the site of the shooting. And you can only imagine what an effecting and kind of chilling experience that would be.
You know, this portion of the high school has been largely kept intact from that day on February 14, 2018, when the shooting occurred. You know, desks are in the same place. Peoples' belongings are still in the same place.
And there is, you know, ample evidence of the tragedy that occurred there. There's blood smeared on the floor. There's broken glass. There's bullet holes in the wall.
And so I think any person who would be walking through there would have to be deeply affected by this. And she did spend about three hours inside the school and also meeting with 10 families of the 17 victims of that attack.
[16:40:09]
And what you hear her talking about and really pushing are new Red Flag Laws. Those are the laws that would identify people who could be a harm to themselves or others. And with a judge's order would restrict their access to firearms.
Florida actually passed a Red Flag Law in the three weeks or so after this shooting. And in the years since, it has been applied to thousands and thousands of people. And what you heard her say in that speech is that all states should adopt a similar law. She also announced a new resource center that would provide resources, training, that sort of thing on implementing these kinds of laws.
But what you'll also hear from the Biden administration, of course, are calls for new restrictions on assault weapons, including the A.R.- 15, which is the type of firearm that was used in the Parkland shooting.
That, of course, won't happen unless Congress can pass some kind of legislation along those lines. That doesn't appear imminent.
And you do hear frustration, certainly, from Harris, from President Biden, that more isn't being done to prevent those types of guns and firearms from being used in these types of tragedies.
JIMENEZ: Yes. I mean, it's been a central part of their campaign here. And Broward County schools, which, of course, includes Marjorie Stoneman Douglas, does say the building is scheduled to be demolished in the summer of 2024, of course, erasing some of the horrors that you just mentioned there as well.
Kevin, thank you so much.
For everyone else, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Check your nothing.
[16:46:24]
JIMENEZ: The clock is ticking on a huge deadline for former President Donald Trump. He's now just two days away from having to post a nearly half-billion-dollar bond in his New York civil fraud case.
This week, Trump claimed he has the money to cover the sum, but his lawyer later clarified that he doesn't actually have that much cash on hand.
Investors yesterday approved a deal to take his struggling social media platform public. But that is just the first of many steps before Trump could actually see any cash from such a deal.
Meanwhile, New Yorks attorney general is now taking steps to possibly seize Trump assets and properties if he can't pay up.
Now, his cash crunch is now raising questions about the future of not only Trump's business empire, but his 2024 presidential campaign.
So joining us now is CNN contributor and former Nixon White House counsel, John Dean.
Welcome, John. Now, look, some of suggested Trump may accept money from a foreign
source to help pay this bond. We haven't seen any evidence that those asks have actually happened.
But what are your concerns as Trump looks for where to come up with the money?
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The concerns are that we could have foreign moneyed come to play, that some one source could have huge influence over a potential president of the United States.
But I don't think he can do that and get away with us not knowing that. And that's the risk he's going to have to play if he does go to a single or multiple large deep-pocket sources.
And that's because the judge last week also modified the order of the monitor, who's looking after his corporations, his business interests, to report what's going on.
So in essence, the judge will know. And Trump will have to disclose what his source might be to meet the bond if he meets the bond. Indeed, he might well let the Attorney General Letitia James just start seizing his property.
JIMENEZ: Yes, it could be a big week on that front. And that, of course, there's always the fear from the Trump camp of this particular case and the significance of this case.
Now I want to bring up, because you were there as Richard Nixon got backed further and further into a corner, and I'm curious from your perspective, what kind what kind of behavior do you predict we could see from Donald Trump as more of these cases come to trial, and we get closer and closer to the election.
DEAN: Well, I'll never be accused of being a great defender of Richard Nixon. But I must say Nixon and Trump are very different personalities.
Nixon was trained as a lawyer. He was a man that may prove himself with a conscience. Trump has neither of those qualities.
He -- as we've watched with the bond, he plays it to the last minute and he's unpredictable. He is a terrible witness in court. He is terribly emotional about some of these things.
So I think the show is going to go on, if you will, as these trials proceed. And I think one or more will play out before the election.
JIMENEZ: Yes. I think, as you rightly point out, and we are in the midst of, of course, him fighting these legal battles, but also in the middle of an election cycle. So politics are also at play here and that may factor into some of the decision-making here.
Trump for one has continued to refer to the January 6th rioters as hostages and patriots. "The Washington Post" is writing that he's aligning himself with them and intensifying his use of dark graphic and, at times, violent language.
[16:50:00]
And some are dismissing this as, you know, Trump just being Trump. And I'm curious, for you, how do you view it?
DEAN: Well, I view this as somebody who has done some pretty deep study, and over many, many years, of authoritarianism, the work of an authoritarian at his core.
And what he's trying to do is get the allegiance of his followers. First of all, get the sympathy of the families of those who are incarcerated. Then dangle out the promise of releasing them if he gets elected. He thinks this will -- actually his base will like this activity.
To me, it is very anti-democratic, very threatening to the system. And one of the reasons it's dangerous if Donald Trump ever gets back in the Oval Office.
JIMENEZ: And one of those potential impediments are the number of legal trials, cases that we've seen play out at both the state and federal levels.
One of them being in Georgia. When Fani Willis brought the Georgia case against Trump last summer, you called it much bigger than Watergate.
And now, given what's happened, Willis being damaged a little by revelations about her personal life, do you still see that case as the one could be the most critical one for Trump?
DEAN: Omar, that was a great scoop CNN got today with Fani Willis. And they sort of found her in the wild. It is not a set-up press conference. She wasn't expecting. It was just a big gutter in the moment and we saw her as she is and how she's thinking about all this.
And she's a woman who's ready to go to trial. She has said that she'd like to set a trial date. There is an appeal of her qualify -- disqualification that has been certified by the judge.
It has not been accepted by the court of appeals yet. That could happen next week. It could happen that they don't accept it. So that's still up in the air as to whether and when it might go forward.
But I -- I saw a woman very ready, a woman who's not concerned. She has great presence in the courtroom. And the reason this trial is potentially so devastating, it's one of the only ones that will be televised. And so well all see it. And that has a huge impact.
JIMENEZ: Yes, and to quote her to our crews today, "The train is coming." We will see when that train arrives and what that train actually looks like when the time comes, if it does, before the election.
John Dean, thank you so much. DEAN: Thank you, Omar.
JIMENEZ: A federal appeals court could decide any day now if Texas can enforce a controversial immigration law. Ahead, we're going to talk with Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett from Texas about the legal whiplash we've seen involving the law.
You all are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JIMENEZ: A controversial Texas immigration law that would make illegal border crossings a state crime is currently on hold as a legal battle plays out between the federal government and the Lone Star State.
Now the law would allow Texas officials to arrest and detain people they suspect of entering the country illegally.
[16:55:02]
On Tuesday, the Supreme Court cleared the way for the state to begin enforcing the policy.
But just hours later, a federal appeals court put it back on hold. So now all eyes are on the Fifth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals as it weighs whether the law can go into effect.
Joining me now is Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett of Texas.
Congresswoman, great to see you.
Now, look, this ultimately is an issue of federal versus state enforcement, and I'm curious, how do you think this will play out?
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): I have no idea. When you start talking about circuits like the Fifth Circuit, I'd get really, really nervous. There are definitely circuits that I like better.
But it will say a lot if the Fifth Circuit rules in the way that they should, which is basically this is a matter of federal law.
It's really just not that complicated. This is a matter of telling Greg Abbott that he needs to stay in his place. And if he wants to practice federal enforcement of immigration law, then maybe he should run for president of the United States.
But until then, he is a governor in the state of Texas and this is not state jurisdiction.
JIMENEZ: And I want to follow up quickly on that front because obviously we saw a video of migrants running past Texas National Guard troops, pushing toward -- through razor wiring and then surrendering to Border Patrol to apply for asylum. We don't know all of the circumstances there, but I'm curious, those
Texas troops and that fencing was under state control there. Do you think that type of situation is helping or hurting the situation overall at the border?
CROCKETT: You know, what I think is hurting the situation at the border is the level of confusion.
We know that, when it comes to abortion laws, or whether we're talking about voting laws, or even now, immigration laws, the confusion is actually what makes everything worse. And honestly, that is part of the scheme of what they're doing.
The fact is -- in fact, I just read an article from "The Houston Chronicle." They talked about the fact that you had Texas state troopers that were saying one thing to migrants, and it was completely false.
And granted, I don't know if they knew that at the time or if they were just confused because, as you stated, the Supreme Court did one thing and then, the next thing you know, the Fifth Circuit did another thing.
And so what's happening is if you know anything about United States immigration law, it says that you can present yourself at any port of entry for asylum. That doesn't necessarily mean just the Texas border, even though that's all we ever talk about.
You can present yourself anywhere within the United States and say, hey, I'm here seeking asylum. And so now you have migrants that may be afraid of Texas law enforcement telling them the wrong things, doing the wrong things, or the fact that there's going to arrest them.
JIMENEZ: Yes, yes. Clarity is what I think a lot of folks are looking for before we even get to the wider debate.
I want to turn to another issue, the GOP-led impeachment inquiry into President Biden. All right, now Republicans continued to allege, with no real proof that this point, that the president was complicit in his son Hunter's business dealings.
And a really big talked-about moment from this week's hearing, you called into question the credibility of one of the witnesses, Hunter's former business partner, Tony Bobulinski.
Here's a clip from that exchange. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROCKETT: I want to be clear that when we were behind closed doors, you called a number of people liars. You called the "Wall Street Journal" liars. You called Cassidy Hutchinson a liar.
(CROSSTALK)
CROCKETT: You called the FBI a liar. You called Rob Walker a liar. You called James Gilyard a liar. You called Hunter Biden a liar. You called Jim Biden a liar.
And just today, you added to your list. You called my colleague, Congressman, Mr. Goldman, a liar as well. It seems like, according to you, the only person that's telling the truth is you and everyone else is lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: So based on that, I mean, you said -- you said it pretty clear right there. But based on that, do you feel that this impeachment inquiry is dead in the water, essentially?
(LAUGHTER)
CROCKETT: I don't know that it was ever out of the water.
(LAUGHTER)
CROCKETT: Listen, you know, it's been interesting because, when you are trying to move forward with something as serious as an impeachment inquiry or whether you're just trying to move a bill, what you normally would do is you would bring witnesses that our fact witnesses that can help to propel whatever it is that you are trying to move forward.
And we know that, early on, when they brought experts, their own experts said, we don't see that you have enough to go forward. They had three experts saying the exact same thing.
And then, even if you were able to listen to other testimony that was given by Bobulinski, he was talking about reading the transcripts of other witnesses.
[16:59:57]
That is not being a fact witness. But I can tell you that Lev Parnas is what we would call a fact witness. And you notice that the Democrats brought him.
Another point that I tried to make is that, hey, Lev worked for Rudy Giuliani.
