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CNN INTERNATIONAL: VP Harris Heads To Arizona After Near-Total Abortion Ban; Trump, Speaker Johnson To Hold "Election Integrity" Event Today; White House Watching Iranian Threat "Very, Very Closely" And Is In Constant Communication With Israel; Jury Selection In Trump's Hush Money Trial To Start Monday; Zelenskyy: Ukraine Will Lose War To Russia Without U.S. Funding. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 12, 2024 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:51]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:30 p.m. in Tehran, 12:00 noon in Tucson, Arizona, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.
And let's get right to the news.
Two dueling campaign events today will spotlight issues President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump want front and center this November.
For team Biden, it is abortion rights. Any minute now, Vice President Kamala Harris expected to touch down in Tucson, Arizona, to mobilize voters against a now, enforceable 1864 ban on nearly all abortions in that key swing state.
Meanwhile, in Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump is hosting House Speaker Mike Johnson for what they call an election integrity announcement. We should note both men have been megaphones for falsehoods regarding election integrity, particularly their false claims about a stolen election in 2020.
Let's begin in Arizona with CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.
Priscilla, the White House announced this trip to Arizona within hours of that Supreme Court ruling, which resurrected this 1864 abortion law. Tell us what VP Harris intends to say?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the vice president is expected to hammer home the point that former President Donald Trump poses a risk to personal freedoms and health care, tying the former president directly to the overturning of Roe and these unpopular abortion bans.
Now, according to prepared remarks that haven't shared with reporters, she's expected to say, quote, the overturning of Roe was a seismic event and this ban in Arizona is one of the biggest aftershocks yet. She's also expected to say that this is what a second term looks like -- more bans, more suffering, less freedom. Of course, Jim, the issue of abortion is a salient political issue for
the Biden campaign, one they think they can seize on heading into November and also one that can help mobilize voters and get them to the polls. And this week, the Biden campaign on the heels of that Arizona Supreme Court ruling purchase a seven-figure ad buy so that they could run more abortion-related ads in the state, again, putting the blame squarely on former President Donald Trump.
And the vice president herself has taken on this issue for the beginning of the year when she launched her reproductive freedom source. He's been crisscrossing the country, making these arguments and making sure that she is tying the former president to the overturning of Roe.
And look, I talked to be Democratic strategists who said this ruling is ultimately another data point in this ongoing argument by the Democratic Party that foreign President Donald Trump is to blame theme for these unpopular abortion bans. But all of it is important in a critical battleground state like Arizona, where President Biden only one by nearly 11,000 votes in 2020. So the vice president expected to bring home that point in her event here in Tucson, Arizona, today, and make sure that voters here understand who is to blame for this ruling.
SCIUTTO: Priscilla Alvarez in Arizona, thanks so much.
Now to Mar-a-Lago, where Trump is throwing a political lifeline to the Republican Speaker Mike Johnson. Tonight, they will be focused on an issue foundational to Trump's campaign, that is false statements about a rigged election in 2020. But the image will likely mean more than the announcement as Trump's stand side-by-side with an embattled Republican speaker struggling to lead a narrowly divided and dysfunctional conference in Washington, Johnson dodged questions today about whether the risks to his speakership might be a topic tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you planning on speaking with President Trump about the motion to vacate?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't ever comment on my private conversations with President Trump, but I'm looking forward to going to Florida and spend some time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN's Kristen Holmes is outside Mar-a-Lago for this meeting. She has more -- Kristen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, whether we're expecting them to talk about today is this issue that they call an issue of non-citizens voting. Now, this is something that there is not really indication many data is a real problem. And I do want to note that there's actually a federal law that bans non-citizens from voting in federal elections, the kind of elections that Trump and Mike Johnson would be dealing with.
[15:05:01]
But this has really become somewhat of a rallying cry for Republicans. Donald Trump himself has gone far enough to say that Democrats want undocumented immigrants coming across the border to help them in the election in 2024. We've also seen lawsuits, legislation proposed in various states to ban noncitizens from voting, even though most places don't allow it. And federally, they are not allowed to vote at any federal elections.
Now, there is some nuance there, just this idea that in some states and some cities, they have passed some kind of legislation that allows noncitizens to vote in local elections, like school board elections. We've got to put that out there. But again, data showing this is not some kind of issue in federal elections.
But it really goes to show you where the Republican Party is right now. You have the two leaders of the party, the two highest ranking members of the party, de facto, Donald Trump as the GOP nominee, and if he is to win president, Mike Johnson would be third in line, coming together for this kind of unprecedented press conference.
And this is what they are focusing on. Now, Republicans they want to live link the issue of election integrity is something that is there pet issue to the real issue that Americans feel in elections, which is immigration. They are really concerned about the immigration crisis. So they are trying to do that today. The other thing part of this, of course, as we know, is that Johnson is trying to save his speakership. He is trying to show that he has support from former President Donald Trump, does seem unlikely that Donald Trump will come out and give him the full throttle support because the fact that he so close to Marjorie Taylor Greene.
But despite that, he is going to be standing side-by-side with the former president to show that the two are allied -- Jim.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.
Joining us now, Sophia Cai of "Axios" and Farnoush Amiri of "The Associated Press".
Good to have you both on this Friday afternoon
SOPHIA CAI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Thanks. Thank you.
FARNOUSH AMIRI, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: Hi, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, Sophia, whatever Trump may say or not say about Johnson's speakership, is appearing alongside him at his Mar-a-Lago estate in effect a vote of confidence in the speaker and perhaps a jolt? CAI: Yeah, absolutely. I think more than anything, its a signal that Trump has his back at a time when he's getting flak from all sides especially from someone like MTG, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is a Trump ally. I think there's a lot of angst in Trump world right now about how to stop that motion to vacate brought on by one of their own. I think they're thinking is this, they think, look, Trump and Johnson, Speaker Johnson get along just fine. We're seven months before Election Day and there is no reason to throw the house into even more chaos, and potentially risk handing the House and the speakership over to Democrats, and along with that subpoena powers.
So these are some of the dynamics that are going on. And I think, you know, it's not Trump-style to go out and say, I have your back, Speaker Johnson. I mean, that kind of, he loses any leverage that he can get in terms of the legislation.
But now, we're at a point where you know, the sort of soft message is, hey, look, we're going to play with the players that we have now. You know, one person close to Trump told me it's past the trading deadline.
SCIUTTO: Farnoush, it sounds like what Sophia is laying out there is something we've seen with Trump that -- I mean, basically he's calculating, it's in his interests now to keep Johnson as speaker because to have more Republican dysfunction in the House is bad for him in November. Am I going too far out on the limb to say that?
AMIRI: No, no. I mean, we just saw it today, right? I mean, it was just a stunning week for Speaker Mike Johnson, right? He was going to bring forward this bipartisan agreement to pass the FISA Section 02 surveillance program reauthorization, and he saw the same group of far right Republicans who have been going after him every single day since his speakership began in October really take this down and block the legislation off the floor and who helped do that? Donald Trump.
So I mean, it's a stunning image to see the two men standing next to each other after, you know, many can say that Trump created a very chaotic week for the speaker this week.
SCIUTTO: But before we go on to Arizona, I just want to note as they propagate this message of election integrity, exaggerating a threat of foreigners voting in this country, which is frankly doesn't exist. Conservative Heritage Foundation found just 24 instances of non- citizens voting between 2003 and 2023. Over 20 years, two decades, 24 instances.
So, not a real threat, and part of this broader, as you know, Sophia message about a 2020 stolen election which didn't occur.
[15:10:04]
To have this speaker, and the former president and current GOP nominee propagating this demonstrates, once again, does it not that that lie is now basically the official platform, a part of the official platform of the Republican Party. CAI: Yeah, I don't even know if the bill is out there yet. We've been told that it is a legislative effort. This is really just an excuse to appear together at Mar-a-Lago, and I think once again, shifts the focus from abortion over to immigration, something that Trump wants to keep in the news.
SCIUTTO: OK. So, to abortion -- certainly, Democrats want to keep this in the news and let's be frank, 160-year law in Arizona, before it was even a state, will be the law, at least according to the Arizona Supreme Court. So, Biden with that in my mind, put this ad out this week, a seven-figure ad buy in Arizona. Have a listen, I want to get your thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because of Donald Trump, millions of women lost a fundamental freedom to control their own bodies. The question is, if Donald Trump gets back in power, what freedom will you lose next?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: I imagined, Farnoush, Democrats see this as if not the issue this November, certainly, one of the major issues that they hope will get them -- get the president reelected.
AMIRI: Yeah, no, and I mean, I think that was for them solidified more when they had this bipartisan opportunity to do something about the border, to do something about immigration was Republicans for years have been really going in on Biden by. They had this opportunity to pass something before the election, and obviously you saw the political maneuvering that happened around that of Donald Trump not wanting to take the issue of immigration and the border off the table in an election year, make -- give Biden this win and you're seeing that the same thing with abortion.
I mean, they know that this only benefits them that they can go on the road and talk about, hey, we are the party that is trying to restore reproductive rights for Americans. We are not the party that is supporting what's happening in Arizona. And we have tried to solve the issues that the American people are facing, but it's Republicans who are continuing to make things worse for the American people.
SCIUTTO: Sophia, Donald Trump said, again today that Arizona went too far. He's calling on the legislature to remedy the situation. But Arizona Republicans blocked an effort just this week to do so.
It shows the difficulty you might want to call a -- call that of him saying, I'm glad I overturned Roe appointed the justices to do so, but it's a states rights issue. But when the state decides in a way that I think might be damaging to my political prospects. That doesn't hold.
Is that arguments, Sophia, that survives, that voters will buy?
CAI: I think, right now, the issue of abortion is really spinning out of control for -- from President Trump. And it's because, you know, it was only Monday this week that he came out and said that this should be left to the states. The campaign's thinking is that this is an issue that works for Democrats, it's one of their attack weapons. And so let's take away that attack line.
And the very next day, the Arizona's state Supreme Court comes out with this ruling and really puts Trump. Kari Lake and other Republicans in a really tough position where now you see Trump and Kari Lake calling for the state legislature to do something about it. He's asking, you know, the Democratic governor to do something about this without acknowledging that he is the person who appointed those Supreme Court justices that overturned.
SCIUTTO: Quite a position to attempt to take.
Sophia Cai, Farnoush Amiri, thanks so much to both you.
AMIRI: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the barrage of rockets fired from Lebanon into Israel. We're live from the region next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:17:15]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
New concerns in the Middle East that Iran could launch a retaliatory strike against Israel perhaps as soon as today, at least this weekend. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met with his war cabinet to discuss Israel's readiness. The top U.S. general for the region is currently in Israel to meet with the IDF about that security track.
It all comes after an attack on the Iranian consulate in Syria just last week, Israel did not take responsibility, but a great deal of attention focused to that being a likelihood.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem with the latest.
Jeremy, in the last hour, we've seen a barrage of rockets fired from Lebanon into Israel. That is not an unusual thing. The pace seemed to be stepping up a bit. Is that believed to be part of the response?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, as you said -- I mean, this seems to be more part of the kind daily barrages that we have seen, the daily skirmishes across that border between the Israeli military and Hezbollah forces inside of Lebanon.
This was, though, Jim, a stepped up, a barrage of rockets more than we have seen in recent weeks, 40 rockets according to the Israeli military, were either intercepted or landed in open areas, either in Lebanon or inside of Israel. Two explosive drones were also intercepted by the Israeli military.
We saw a video actually of these interceptions happening quite dramatic scenes, but it is not the kind of anticipated response that we are awaiting to see when and in what form it will take that were expecting to see from Iran.
I can tell you though that Israeli officials are certainly preparing for the possibility of an Iranian attack, including the possibility of an array in an attack on Israeli soil. And depending on the mode of attack, what exactly is targeted by Iranian forces will determine how severe of a counter reaction you're going to see from the Israeli military.
But certainly today, Jim, both the Israeli military as well as U.S. officials are trying to project strength, trying to project a united front. Today, we saw General Kurilla, the head of U.S. Central Command, as you mentioned in Israel today, with the defense minister, Yoav Gallant, as well as spending time with Israel's chief, military chief of staff, General Herzi Halevi. And then in both of those appearances, they really tried to project that unity and Israeli officials for their part, made very clear that a Iranian strike on Israeli soil, in particular, well result in a response in kinds.
Now, for the time being, Israeli civilians have not been told to alter any of their plans. There is no change in instructions to civilians here.
[15:20:01]
But there's no question that the country is on a state of heightened alert and Israeli civilians as well are also in that kind of a state of mind as well.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. Israel has -- Iran has a lot of highly capable missiles.
Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.
Well, the Biden administration says it is on high alert as well for a significant Iranian strike, perhaps against Israel itself.
Moments ago, the president was asked about that possibility. He said, he expects such an attack sooner rather than later. His message to Iran was, one word, "don't".
For that part of the story, I want to bring in CNN's Oren Liebermann from the Pentagon.
So, Oren, the U.S. moved additional military assets into the region in response to this, to do what exactly? And I wonder what the concern is that building for Iranian or Iranian proxy strikes on U.S. forces in the region.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: So this building, much like the White House and much like Israel also looking for an Iranian response. Now whether that's Iranian forces directly or Iranian proxies, that's all on the spectrum of what the U.S. and Israel are looking for. As you pointed out, the U.S. has surged additional assets to the region, likely air defenses of the type that would be needed the intercept incoming rockets, missiles, or drones. We have seen U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria already on high alert especially after the attack that killed three U.S. service members in Jordan. So there isn't sort of a higher alert status to go, forces are already on alert, aware of the possibility that an attack could be coming from Iran or Iranian proxies.
So, that's all on what the U.S. is looking out for. Sources familiar with the thinking here, believe it's more likely that it's Iranian proxies that targeted direct response, perhaps towards Israel itself as Iran, just like the U.S., trying to avoid a broader regional escalation and potential war, so trying to calculate how to respond to Israeli strike in Damascus that hit an Iranian consulate here.
So, that's all part of the thinking here in terms of what might happen. And then it's a function of seeing first what role can the U.S. play, if any, here that depends largely on how Iran or Iran's proxies carry out an attack. And then second, what is the Israeli response following that?
Just as Jeremy pointed out, the us, like Israel, very much waiting to see how this happens with the commander of Central Command on the ground in Israel right now, a trip that was moved up because of all this.
SCIUTTO: Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, thanks so much.
Joining me now to discuss, CNN military analysts and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.
Good to have you on.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you. Good to be here, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So there's a range of options, clearly, the U.S. and Israel believe Iran will do something. The question is, what, to what extent? What do you think is most likely because there is a view and it's been a fairly consistent one that while Israel wants to show, wants to retaliate, show its strength, its resolved, et cetera, it does not want a regional war.
So how does it calibrate that or how is it most likely to calibrate?
LEIGHTON: Yeah, I think the way that the Iranians are going to calibrate that, Jim, is they're going to use their proxies to do. So, the conventional wisdom, at least what passes for conventional wisdom, right now, is that the Iranians are first going to use their proxies.
The one thing that could change that is if the Israeli response to this attack actually goes after Iranian installation specifically on Iranian territory. If that were to happen, then the Iranians would respond in behind from their own territory. And that's the kind of escalation of the Iranians are not quite ready for because quite frankly, they are ready to put the finishing touches on a nuclear device.
And if they have that capability, if they are actually going to do that in terms of uranium enrichment and things like that, they're not quite there to do that. Yet they wanted to save that possibility before they do anything drastic with either Israel or with the United States. And they want to have that capability at hand before they respond dramatically.
SCIUTTO: Is the U.S., do you believe -- well, listen, we don't know how Israel is going to strike yet. But if Israel were to respond to the strike inside Iran, do you believe the U.S. would counsel Israel away from doing so given the risks of escalation?
LEIGHTON: In the past, we have done that. There have been several instances where I -- that I've witnessed when I was on the joint staff and I'm sure you've seen through your reporting, there are, you know, certain -- there have been certain historical instances where we've actually told the Israelis not to attack Iran.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: And that would I think be the kind of thing that would happen in this particular case as well, because we don't want there to be a bigger escalation in the Gulf. It would really complicate matters, you know, everything that we've seen, you know, from the Abraham Accords to normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, all of that would be put on hold.
SCIUTTO: Right.
LEIGHTON: Even though Saudi Arabia and Iran are major enemies, they've had a bit of a rapprochement courtesy of the Chinese. The U.S. is talking to the Chinese, among others to stop this -- this escalation. So I think what the effort is going to be is they're going to try to stop an escalation like this.
[15:25:01]
And, of course, the U.S. is going to say to the Israelis, do not attack Iran itself.
SCIUTTO: Well, then, the question is, do they listen, right? Because they don't always listen.
I do want to play. I believe we have these sound now of the president responding -- describing his view of the heightened risk right now. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My expectation sooner than later.
(CROSSTALK)
REPORTER: What's your message to Iran in this moment?
BIDEN: Don't.
REPORTER: Are American personnel and assets at risk, Mr. President? Mr. President, are American troops at risk as well?
BIDEN: We are devoted to the defense of Israel. We will support Israel, we will defend -- help defend Israel. And Iran will not succeed. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: To that question there about risk to U.S. personnel as well, I know that that is a concern that there might be Iranian proxy attacks on U.S. forces in the region. And by the way, not for the first time, as you know, is that likely to be part of the mix?
LEIGHTON: I think so. I think Iranian proxy attacks are very likely on U.S. forces.
But there's one big caveat here the Iraqi prime minister is visiting the Washington, D.C. on the 15th of this month. And he's going to ask that U.S. forces be withdrawn from Iraq. If the U.S. forces are withdrawn from Iraq based on diplomatic discussions -- and discussions between the Iraqi prime minister and the president of the United States, then Iran will see that as a victory and may counsel their proxies not --
SCIUTTO: Not to fire.
LEIGHTON: -- not to fire at us now.
SCIUTTO: Notable.
I want to talk about the state of the war in Israel before we go, Chaim Levinson wrote a scathing editorial on the state of the war in Israeli newspaper "Haaretz" entitled, "Saying what cant be said: Israel has been defeated -- a total defeat". The subtitle gets at what is quite a strong argument here, the war's aims won't be achieved, the hostages won't be returned through military pressure, security won't be restored and Israel's international ostracism won't end.
That's a view from inside Israel, granted from the left-leaning newspaper "Haaretz".
Is he right about Israel's war aims?
LEIGHTON: Well, he's certainly right about the fact that the Israeli war aims as discussed by Prime Minister Netanyahu are not realizable. The idea of destroying Hamas --
SCIUTTO: Yeah, eliminating.
LEIGHTON: -- eliminating it completely, that's not possible.
Now, what the Israelis have done, on the other hand, has been actually relatively successful and that is destroying elements of Hamas, but it is not a complete destruction of that group. And you certainly are not destroying the ideology.
And this is the problem that the Israelis have. They're not destroying the way in which these people think. They are, in fact, really making it much more likely that more generations of people in Gaza and other places are going to join groups like Hamas.
SCIUTTO: And while antagonizing some of their closest allies as well by the conduct of the war.
Cedric Leighton, thanks so much as always.
LEIGHTON: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the appeals are over. Jury selection in Donald Trump's hush money trial will begin on Monday. We'll have an update next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:31:30]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
The first criminal trial of a former U.S. president gets underway on Monday with jury selection. This in Donald Trump's hush money trial, to remind you, this is one of four criminal cases against Trump, in this case, former president is accused allegedly covering up hush money payments made to adult film actress Stormy Daniels before the 2016 election. Trump has pleaded not guilty to the charges.
CNN's Kara Scannell, she's been following the story from the beginning.
So Trump's legal team has launched number of attempts to delay the start of the trial over weeks and months. Are all those attempts exhausted? And do we begin on Monday?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So. Jim, we are beginning on Monday as of now. There's nothing that is expected between now and then to disrupt this. But Trump's legal team, they're still trying to delay the trial. They still have a few motions appear that have not been ruled on by Judge Juan Marshawn, who is overseeing the case.
He also, you know, went three times the appeals court this week asking them to make an emergency decision to stop the trial. All three times those individual judges rejected that. They are arguing another -- one other time before an appellate panel in papers to try to stop the trial. Those briefs are due on Monday, but it seems very unlikely that this trial is going to stop.
So we will begin with jury selection on Monday. Donald Trump is expected to be there, and that will begin the very start of this trial -- this historic moment of a former president now having to face a jury -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: He's required to be there?
SCANNELL: Yeah. So he is required to attend this trial unless he gets a waiver from the judge. You know, Trump, though, as we've seen in some recent trials -- I mean, this will be the third trial in six months that Donald Trump will be attending. This is the only one that's criminal with the stakes super high.
But he wants to attend these trials. He does it the trials. He sat through juries selection and the E. Jean Carroll trial. And in this case, he will have to come unless he asked a judge for a waiver and the judge grants it. You know, at that point, he hasn't asked for that yet. So we expect him to be there.
SCIUTTO: Jury selection, significant part of this trial.
Can you give us a sense of what kind of questions the juries will be asked potential jurors?
SCANNELL: So the judge has released the questionnaire that the jury will be asked. I mean, it involves biographical information. Where do you live in Manhattan? Because that is the pool from which this jury will come. What they do for a living where they get their news.
There's also some questions that are specific to this case to try to weed out anyone who might have a bias either conscious or subconscious one. And, you know, that is -- have you attended any Trump rallies? Do you or any friends or family members ever worked for the Trump Organization, the Trump campaign, the Trump administration? You know, and also asking you, have you attended any rallies that are anti- Trump? Have you -- are you a member of any fringe group, whether it's on the right side, proud boys, or on the left side, Antifa?
You know, really trying to assess out what whether someone has a bias, but the judges made clear he's not going to ask anyone who they've voted for, what there are political affiliation is, if they've donated to campaigns. It's really trying to narrow this on bias and not get into the politics.
SCIUTTO: Notable. And we should note, former President Trump, he's attacked folks jurors, members of the court, et cetera, for things like that, that you're talking about there.
Kara Scannell, thanks so much.
I do want to bring in, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson for more on what we expect to see next week.
So, you've been a lot of trials yourself, a lot of jury selections I imagine. It's going to be crucial part of this.
[15:35:02]
It's such a high-profile case. Everybody knows who Donald Trump is.
Can a fair and impartial panel be selected for a case like this one?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, Jim, we're going to find out. And the issue is not whether you know who Donald Trump is. Everybody does. The issue is not whether you have any opinions. People do, we all do. The issue is not about who you like or dislike. The issue was whether
you can put those issues opinions aside, and judge this case based upon the facts in the courtroom and only the courtroom. That is the critical determination.
And so, what happens when people talk about the issue of fairness, remember, very important not to get in the weeds, but lawyers have what are called the voir dire, some call voir dire, that's jury selection, right? You have these challenges for cause.
What that means, Jim, is that if a person indicates and a question that you know what, I don't like the president, I think he's guilty. I don't want to sit on this jury. They get excused and you have an unlimited amount of four cause challenges.
And so, to be fair to be clear, if there are people who are expressed opinions that are negative to the defendant in this case and don't believe they can serve, they are excused.
Then, there's the other pool of people after you get through the four cause challenges, you have another thing called peremptory challenges. Those are challenges that are based on discretion. I didn't get a vibe from a juror that I thank would be appropriate for this case. I got a great vibe. I'm not going to exercise.
So what I'm looking for is what kind of four cause challenges there are, and whether or not the jury pool as they are constituted, could indeed set aside whatever their opinions are, sit on the case, be fair. And if they're not, expect more motions from the -- from the former president to delay the case.
SCIUTTO: How long do we expect this to have -- I mean, I've gone through it myself as a juror, sometimes the lawyers and the judges to ask a lot of questions, they want to dig down. You know, they don't just ask once, right, whatever the issue is. I mean, do we expect this to take days?
JACKSON: Yes. So what happens, Jim, is that certainly the judge asked preliminary questions and Kara was just alluding to those general generic questions about your family background and where you went to school and, you know, where you grew up, and what you do for a living. And are you married and single? And then specific to the case, you know, in terms of have you attended Trump rallies, have you not? Are you part of this organization, what cable do you watch?
But then the lawyers get to ask questions and asking those questions to the lawyers, get to drill down with respect to what the jurors' views and beliefs are. And so, I don't anticipate that jury selection will take an overly extended period of time, but I'm going to fudge on that because obviously this is a case where it's different from a normal case. I think that in the event that you can't get a jury pool, that is seemingly, right, impartial, you could expect more motions from the Trump team to either a delay the case or B, change the venue of the case.
And so generally, jury selection doesn't take more than a few days. This case may be different, predicated upon who were dealing with, but that's the nature of how it should proceed.
SCIUTTO: So we know Trump and his legal team, part of their strategy for every legal issue he's faced has been to delay as long as possible. The scenario you just gamed out their strikes me as one we should expect there, right? Should we not?
JACKSON: Yeah, Jim, I think you could, but remember what I've laid out is predicated upon what the responses are. Now, you may have a jury pool and in that jury pool and it's always a crap shoot. It just is, because what happens is a number of people fill the courtroom and number of people filled the jury box.
And those people are questioned and sometimes that initial pool to your surprise, could be very adept at dealing with the issues on this case. They might in fact, you know, embrace the fact that, hey, I want to be on the jury. I don't have any specific bent or lean and any particular way.
So we'll see how the questions are developed by the lawyers and the judge and whether or not the people who are on the pool, Jim, could serve on the case if you get a pool that says don't like the president, don't want to be here, wouldn't vote for him, didn't vote for him and will not vote to acquit him, then expect certainly more delays, more motions delay of the case, right? At least they'll argue, the Trump team will. And, of course, they may argue for change of venue predicated upon what potential jurors might say.
SCIUTTO: Well, I know where my money is. Joey Jackson, before we go, if and when we do get to a trial, what are you looking for in the trial?
JACKSON: Yeah, a number of things. Number one is what id like to see, of course, is whether the prosecution in laying out the case has corroboration and I believe at least based on the statement of facts they do for a star witness who, of course, is Michael Cohen who we know pled guilty. He will be ravage and savage by the defense team when I'm also looking for when he testifies because he pled guilty because it was the perjury because he can't be trusted.
But the issue to me is whether or not the prosecution, Jim, has text messages to corroborate how this plan was developed to conceal this information, to boost Mr. Trump's election prospects.
[15:40:07]
Do they have email exchanges? What other surveillance might they have on the issues and what other corroborating information? This is essentially a paper case. You either going to have the invoices and establish that they were false, the checks, establish they were false. The ledger entries established they were false.
And so what I'm referring to is evidence. Cases are won and lost by evidence.
Last thing and that is that what is the defense potentially going to be? How in the face of potentially damaging text messages, email exchanges, and other information that says what hiding information how are you going to deal with that if you on the defense team, I'm looking for that as well.
SCIUTTO: Joey Jackson. Thanks so much.
JACKSON: Of course.
Still to come, the story of war time Kyiv. My one-on-one conversation with a journalist who has documented the early days of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, all the way -- all the way up to today.
We'll be right back
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
As House Speaker Mike Johnson heads to Florida to court former President Donald Trump, sources familiar with the matter say he has another mission in mind to feel out the former president on a potential Ukraine aid package. That aid has been stalled in the House by Republicans for weeks now, this as Ukrainian forces are just getting pummeled on the front lines, out shot, running out of ammunition and losing ground.
Joining me now to discuss Ukrainian journalist and co-founder of "The Kyiv Independent", Illia Ponomarenko. He is also author of the book, "I Will Show You How It Was: The Story of Wartime Kyiv". It's a great story.
Illia, thanks so much for joining
ILLIA PONOMARENKO, AUTHOR, "I WILL SHOW YOU HOW IT WAS: THE STORY OF WARTIME KYIV": Thank you. Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, first, I want to ask you, this is yet one more moment in time where we hear of an effort, at least, for the U.S. to renew its military assistance to Ukraine. Do you believe that in the end, the U.S. will come through or are you losing confidence?
[15:45:02]
PONOMARENKO: You know, the nature of this war and the history of the last two years says a lot about the inability to talk about things like yes or no. But then you talk about possibilities.
I think with everything that we have seen over the last, let's see, weeks, everything that's in the news, I think the possibility of the U.S. Congress finally passing this votes, and providing Ukraine and other allies with aid is highly likely, I would say this, given many factors, especially when it comes to actual effects, extremely negative effects this delay in aid has on the ground here in Ukraine, and also the general dissatisfaction from many allies, many allies beyond Ukraine, and the loss -- loss of trust from many allies, the pressure -- the pressure initial pressure from the Johnson team. SCIUTTO: Presidency Zelenskyy, he said that if Congress does not approve further aid, Ukraine may very well lose the war to Russia. I want to play some of that sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): If Congress does not help Ukraine, Ukraine will lose the war. And we need to find a public format for this. If Ukraine loses the war, other states will be attacked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Do you agree with him? And is there a timeline on that? Do you have a sense from speaking to sources of as to how much longer Ukrainian forces can hold out without U.S. assistance?
PONOMARENKO: Again, it's really hard to tell because a lot of things are hidden from public eye from our view, but I would say that from the experience of the previous months U.S. aides constitutes likely close to 70, 75 percent of the Ukrainian defense effort.
SCIUTTO: Wow.
PONOMARENKO: In so many critical regards such as air defense. We're having a critical problems with air defense, but particularly when it comes to defense from advanced Russian missiles, supersonic missiles that attack our civilian, heat and energy infrastructure because we largely depends on better systems and the provision of munitions from the United States.
That comes with great danger upon the civilian infrastructure, but also it means the degradation, for instance, the components of frontline air defense which allows Russia to even more -- have even more broad use of their glide bombs. That is extremely difficult problem for the -- for Ukrainian military right now.
So United States also has a great deal in terms of providing maintenance and details for things like Bradley machines --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
PONOMARENKO: -- the fighting machines.
So I would say that Ukraine will be in great danger as a nation without U.S. aid. The last, of course, we will have to continue doing what we should as a nation with or without U.S. aid. But of course we absolutely need and hope for the U.S. to get back with us.
SCIUTTO: The former president Donald Trump, who, of course, is running for office again, he has claimed he could end the war if he were reelected in Ukraine in a day.
Do you trust if he were to be reelected as the us leader, Trump, to end the war in a way that respects Ukraine's desires and its security? PONOMARENKO: The problem is that, of course, President Trump, future President Trump if he gets elected, could seriously, give it a try, you know, in his bolster nature ended within 24 hours by forcing Ukraine decline in all the claiming on Crimea or Donbas or freeze the conflict on the -- on the current frontline which is 80 percent of Ukrainian -- under Ukrainian control.
But the problem is that's it's not in the best interest of Russia and the Kremlin who said that they will want this after such a war, after all this, after two years of this great humiliation, who said that it will be in the Russian interests in this. So knowing what Russia is and knowing Kremlin is and what they do with this war and the decades -- decades old war on this.
So, very likely scenario is Vladimir Putin say and thank you, morons, and taking some sort of a pause to reinstate his forces and move on for this, move on, because nothing really stops him, absolutely nothing.
SCIUTTO: What history to back that up.
Before we go, Bucha, where you are now is the scene of some of the worst crimes of this war, some of which are now being adjudicated as war crimes against Russian forces.
[15:50:01]
Where do those investigation stand? And do you expect justice for Bucha?
PONOMARENKO: Unfortunately, you know, it's a war. It's a giant war, one of the biggest wars, and probably the biggest worse that Europe's -- Europe has seen since World War II. And when it comes to all the things that happened in the city, just outside Kyiv, one of the most beautiful cities of the Kyiv and the metropolitan area, with basically know everything.
Thanks to a lot of attention from world media and many litigators, we know basically every minute that happens in the city under Russian occupation. We have satellite pictures. We have behalf very detailed timeline. We have its action of the entire world media in there.
I love my house is pretty close to the place where a mass grave by the church was located, ill-fated mass grave. And when we were witnessing gathering of dead bodies from mass grave killed by Russians, we were there and we saw every -- almost every media outlet been present in there.
So we know names, we know Russian military units, we know timelines, we know satellite pictures. Unfortunately, without major Russian defeat, without another model of numeral trial for war criminals and for war crimes committed by Russian, Russian military in Ukraine, I'm not sure that we can get justice that we think about.
SCIUTTO: Well, Illia Ponomarenko, thank you for the hard work you've done since the start the war, including from places such as Bucha. And as we noted, author of the book, "I Will Show You How It Was: The Story of Wartime Kyiv". Thanks for joining.
And we'll have more news when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: So a three-day weekend. That's what some executives at least are considering. A new survey shows that nearly one-third of large U.S. companies are experimenting with a four or 4-1/2 workweek. This comes as companies exploring new ways to combat employee burnout.
Joining me now to break it all down, CNN business editor at large and anchor of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS", Richard Quest.
Richard, we've seen work from home. Are we talking four-day workweek now?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Well, you mean I expected to actually turn up and do this.
[15:55:03]
You actually really won't be.
SCIUTTO: Is there -- there is. Finally, you show up, Richard Quest.
QUEST: Don't give up on me that easy.
Look, Jim, the evidence is absolutely clear, numerous studies, lots of time, full weeks does not have a measurable impact on productivity but it does have a measurable impacts on employee mental health, well- being, happiness at work. It is a no-brainer, but, Jim, it's not just say to people, oh, don't come in on Friday. It has to be structured, it has to be considered.
I mean, in the U.S. is what you want to talk about. Is that a major study on this? And the conclusions are quite clear.
SCIUTTO: And just to be -- to be clear, is this also about a hot job market? I just wonder, is it about worker retention when it's relatively easy to find a job?
QUEST: Well, I suppose, look, if you don't have another employer is saying it's a four-day week, however you structure it, then, yes, it is keeping people, but I'm a bit dubious on that. Remember, we were told that working from home was going to be the new thing, a company that didn't say allow you to work from home will be at a disadvantage. That didn't happen.
I think this four day week or at least some lesser hours during the week, that's the big killer app.
SCIUTTO: Well, you're still showing up. Thank you, Richard Quest.
QUEST: No, I'm off, I'm off. I'm off.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" coming up. SCIIUTTO: Thanks so much for all of you for joining me. I'm Jim Sciutto.
As he said, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next. Have a good weekend.
