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U.S. House Speaker Visits Columbia Amid Demonstrations; Biden Approves Aid Package for Ukraine After Months of Negotiations; Antony Blinken Walking Diplomatic Tightrope During China Visit; Blinken Walking Diplomatic Tightrope During China Visit; Supreme Court Hears Arguments Over Idaho's Abortion Ban. Aired 12-12:45a ET

Aired April 25, 2024 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:30]

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, I'm John Vause.

Ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Go back to class and stop the nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Message not received, at least at the University of Southern California, the latest college campus to see police move in and arrest dozens of pro-Palestinian protesters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a good day for America. It's a good day for Europe. It's a good day for world peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And a bad day for Vladimir Putin and Russia, with long-range missiles and other more deadly and high-tech weapons heading from the U.S. to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We'll be dealing with areas where we have real differences with China.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And on that long laundry list of issues, China's covert help in rebuilding Russia's military.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.

VAUSE: The University of Southern California in Los Angeles is the latest flashpoint in student-led pro-Palestinian protests, which has swept across college campuses nationwide. In just the last few hours, police began arresting demonstrators for criminal trespass.

These are live issues -- like pictures, rather, coming from Los Angeles right now, time one-minute past 9:00. The demonstrators heading north in order to disperse. But because this is a private university on private land, police were only there at the request of the university's administration. Now earlier the Council on American- Islamic Relations condemned what it called a violent crackdown on protesters.

Meantime, in New York, the president of Columbia University, Nemat Shafik, is under pressure to stand down. And that pressure is coming from House Speaker Mike Johnson. During his visit to Columbia University Wednesday, Johnson demanded Shafik resign if she's unable to end the chaos on campus. And Johnson, who's facing an onslaught of criticism from conservatives over his own job performance as House speaker, was repeatedly heckled during a news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: My message to the students inside the encampment is get -- go back to class and stop the nonsense. Look, if we want to have a debate on campus about the merits of these things, let's do that, but you can't intimidate your fellow students and make them stay home from class. Think about that. Is that right? Do you think that's right? Stop wasting your parents' money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Joining us now from New York is Esha Karam, managing editor of the "Columbia Daily Spectator."

Thank you for being with us.

ESHA KARAM, MANAGING EDITOR, COLUMBIA DAILY SPECTATOR: Yes, of course, thanks for having me.

VAUSE: OK. So what's the latest now on college campus? The last time we spoke there was a deadline which had been extended for these negotiations over removing that protest encampment. Where is that? Where are those negotiations, I guess? And is other protests ongoing?

KARAM: Yes. Yes. So the protest is ongoing. I'm standing right in front of the encampment right now. We're about halfway through that extended deadline of 48 hours, you know, and we heard from organizers on the student front earlier today in a press conference who told us, you know, that the negotiations are ongoing. They're so, sort of, unstable at the moment. But for the moment until these next 24 hours, you know, they're still the table. But really after that, we don't really know where things are going.

VAUSE: So let's just review the demands here, because the student protesters they want divestment from Israel, in other words, all investments in Israel in anyway to be withdrawn. Is that something that the university is even willing to talk about or willing to do?

KARAM: You know, I don't know that they've been quite vocal about what they're willing to do yet. You know, we've heard from the Columbia College Student Body who recently passed a referendum in favor of divestment. And we've also heard from, you know, the university senate's body, which is, you know, the Committee on Socially Responsible Investing, who said, you know, they need to see a broad consensus within the community before they, you know, accept, start thinking about the proposal of divestment. So we're really not sure where the university stands right at this moment.

VAUSE: The House Speaker Mike Johnson, Republican, turned up with a 10-person strong delegation on Wednesday. He was booed and cheered. He also, though, called for the university president to resign unless she can restore calm on campus. Is that a call which is supported by most students there?

KARAM: You know, I think we're hearing a lot of different things from students right now. You know, some who are willing to, you know, see her continued to lead and continue to work with her. We are seeing, though, a lot of, you know, just as the pressure is coming from the outside, it's also coming from the inside of this community. So we're seeing a lot of different mixed voices right now.

[00:05:01]

VAUSE: And there were a lot of voices during that news conference, which was given by the House speaker. A lot of booing, a lot of heckling, a lot of name-calling. But overall, though, how was his visit there to the college campus received? Some have said it was a blatant politicization of this issue.

KARAM: You know, I did think we see -- we saw a lot of, you know, media presence come onto campus at that time. You know, again, as you were saying, we saw a lot of counter protesters and heckling throughout. You know, but I think it was, you know, primarily media presence. And we saw, you know, a response from students in that sense.

VAUSE: Esha Karam, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate the update. We appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

KARAM: Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

VAUSE: You bet.

Well, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is now demanding an end to these pro-Palestinian protests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: What's happening on America's college campuses is horrific. Antisemitic mobs have taken over leading universities. They call for the annihilation of Israel, they attack Jewish students, they attack Jewish faculty. This is reminiscent of what happened in German University in the 1930s. It's unconscionable.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: Hamas has also spoken out over police arresting protesters, saying their right to free expression has been violated. Meanwhile, Palestinians in Gaza have no such right with Hamas regularly taking hardline on anti-government protests. A member of the Hamas political bureau accused the White House of refusing to acknowledge the American public has discovered the truth, going on to say, suppression, suppression, rather, will cost the Biden administration in future elections.

Well, day 201 of Israel's war with Hamas and increased Israeli airstrikes have pounded northern Gaza for a second straight day, and to the south an all-out Israeli offensive on the border city of Rafah is moving closer with two reserve brigades set to be deployed according to a government spokesperson. More than half of Gaza's 2.3 million population have fled to Rafah for safety. Many now living in tents and makeshift encampments. Israel reportedly planning mass evacuations ahead of any military offensive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MENCER, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: Israel is moving ahead with our operation to target Hamas in Rafah, destroyed at least 18 or 19 of Hamas' 24 battalions. But the four battalions which remain in Rafah cannot be shielded from Israel. They will be attacked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Despite international objections including from Israel's closest allies, the United States, the Israelis insist only an all-out assault can eliminate those four brigades of Hamas fighters who are based in the southern city.

Well, proof of life from Hamas of an Israeli-American being held in Gaza. Hersh Goldberg-Polin appears on a video alive, but apparently he is badly wounded. Part of his arm blown off by a grenade attack during his kidnapping on October 7th, according to another hostages -- hostage, rather, who was released. Just when the video was recorded is not known, but he does make reference to Passover and says he's being held for nearly 200 days, which suggests sometime this week.

Goldberg-Polin's parents are calling for immediate action to bring him home and all the other hostages home as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON POLIN, FATHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: Seeing a video of Hersh today is overwhelming. We're relieved to see him alive. But we're also concerned about his health and well-being as well as that of all the other hostages and all of those suffering in this region.

RACHEL GOLDBERG-POLIN, MOTHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: If you can hear this, we heard your voice today for the first time in 201 days. And if you can hear us, I am telling you, we are telling you, we love you. Stay strong. Survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: Protesters burn cardboard boxes outside the home of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Many carried signs and posters of Goldberg-Polin. They're demanding the Israeli government secure the release of all hostages.

In the coming hours renewed shipments of U.S. weapons are expected to arrive in Ukraine, among them, ATACMS, long-range missiles which the Ukrainians had long demanded, but had been repeatedly denied by President Biden over fears it could cause a major escalation in the conflict with Russia. After authorizing the financial assistance package passed by Congress, Biden called out far-right conservatives for blocking the aid while praising lawmakers who voted in favor.

Ukraine will get nearly $61 billion in military assistance, $26 billion will go to Israel, $8 billion for the Indo-Pacific. President Biden says this was a good day for world peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It's going to make America safer, it's going to make the world safer. And it continues America's leadership in the world and everyone knows it. It was a difficult path. It should have been easier and it should have gotten there sooner. But in the end, we did it. America always does. We rose to the moment. We came together. And we got it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: The Pentagon has revealed that some ATACMS have already been delivered to Ukraine earlier this month.

[00:10:05]

That's after President Biden secretly approved the transfer back in February. It was kept secret for operational security.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen has the latest now on Russia's war with Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Russian choppers attacking Ukrainian positions on the eastern front. Vladimir Putin's army able to strike with overwhelming firepower as Kyiv's troops suffered severe weapons and ammo shortages.

But now the Pentagon confirms the Ukrainians have a new weapon. Secretly shipped by the United States. The longer-range Army Tactical Missile Systems, ATACMS, which could reach up to 190 miles. Kremlin- controlled media already concerned about the powerful new missiles in Ukraine's arsenal.

OLGA SKABEEVA, RUSSIA-1 PRESENTER (through translator): This is a huge territory of our country which Ukrainians now reached, are already reaching despite the fact that American sources report that weapons will be delivered only by the end of the week. We record it every time the Americans, as a rule, deliver this assistance to Ukraine even before announcing it.

PLEITGEN: Ukraine's troops have been badly outgunned for months as House Republicans held up additional U.S. military assistance, losing ground to the Russians and in desperate need Ukraine's president says, especially of artillery ammo and longer-range weapons now on their way.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): These days, we have been working as hard as possible with our American friends at all levels to quickly fill this package from the United States with exactly the kind of weapons that our soldiers need.

PLEITGEN: The U.S. also announced it's sending more air defense missiles to Ukraine, as Russia steps up its aerial blitz against Ukrainian power plants and towns, wounding several overnight in Kharkiv in eastern Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): After the first one, all windows were blown out. I cut my hand. when I was trying to get out, there was a second strike. The door was blown out. I somehow managed to get out.

PLEITGEN: The Ukrainians say they realize this aid might not be enough to turn the tide in the war, but they hope it will help them stop the advances of Vladimir Putin's army. President Biden saying the new military aid package sends a clear message to the Russian leader and to America's allies.

BIDEN: We're all standing together against this brutal dictator. As I've argued for months, this is directly, directly in the United States national security interest. If Putin triumphs in Ukraine, the next move the Russian forces could very well be a direct attack on a NATO ally.

PLEITGEN: And the key port town Odessa that I'm in right now has been under increased Russian missile and drone attack over the past couple of weeks. And the Ukrainians are hoping that with this new U.S. aid package that they will get the interceptor missiles that they need to try and keep towns like this one, at least a little bit safer.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Odessa, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: joining us now is retired Australian Army Major General Mick Ryan, former commander of the Australian Defense College and author of "War Transformed: The future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict."

Welcome back.

MAJ. GEN. MICK RYAN (RET.), AUSTRALIAN ARMY: Good day, John.

VAUSE: So after signing off on this funding package, President Biden talked about the urgency of delivering this military assistance to Ukraine. Here he is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: In the next few hours, literally in a few hours we're going to begin sending in equipment to Ukraine for air defense munitions, for artillery, for rocket systems, and armored vehicles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So just in terms of logistics here, would the U.S. have prepositioned the weapons and munitions which are listed in this funding package somewhere, maybe in neighboring Poland or within the region, and once it became clear that congressional approval was a done deal?

RYAN: I think it's highly likely that for months now while there's being negotiations in Congress, the U.S. Military has been working hard to push forward the first aid package, once it was approved by Congress and the president, particularly with the high priority items, which include artillery, munitions, high armed munitions, air defense. But as we've seen from this package, it also includes a variety of vehicles, including Bradley fighting vehicles. So this is a really good outcome, and I expect the first day it will probably be rolling out of the border very soon indeed.

VAUSE: Yes. And the speed of that operation seems to be, you know, a sign of just how desperate and how quickly Ukraine needs its military support. It's almost down to the wire in some instances, right?

RYAN: In some places, absolutely it is. There are Ukrainian brigades that are almost totally out of munitions to fire back at these Russian artillery barrages, that outnumber them 10-1. They are undermanned, they're under gunned, and this aid package comes at just the right time both in munitions and for morale.

VAUSE: And even before this new shipment arrives, Biden secretly approved the transfer of long range ATACMS missiles in February for use inside Ukrainian territory. The ATACMS missiles were then quietly included in the $300 million aid package announced in March, ultimately delivered to Ukraine earlier this month.

[00:15:01]

So the Pentagon says the secrecy was to maintain operational security, and it was at Ukraine's request. Now these long-range missiles have a range of up to 190 miles, about 300 kilometers. If we take a look at the map, if we take a look at the territory which is now in range, the Russian territory in range of these missiles, how much of a game changer will these missiles actually be?

RYAN: Well, this is a very significant change in the capabilities of the Ukrainian armed forces, not a silver bullet, mind you, but it allows them to reach out and hit headquarters and logistic nodes that the Russians moved back after the injection of the first time armed launches back in June 2022. So this will force the Russians into a real concrete about supporting current frontline operations, as well as the planning for any large-scale offensive they want to undertake this summer.

VAUSE: I want you to listen to Jake Sullivan, White House National Security adviser, on why the president finally dropped his opposition to supplying long-range missiles to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: What we have seen from the Russians is their willingness to accept long-range missiles from other countries, specifically North Korea. They have used those in the battlefield. They have used them to attack Ukrainian civilians as well. So from our perspective, we think it's appropriate to do at this moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: I can't help but wonder, if all the military hardware from tanks to missiles, which had been initially denied to Ukraine had been delivered when they're asked for, would we still be having a war right now?

RYAN: I think we'd be in a very different position. By the end of 2022, the Ukrainians really had their boot on the neck of the Russians and slow aid was one of the reasons why the Russians were able to get away to build these defenses, which proved so catastrophic to the Ukrainians last year. At the end of the day, the Russians have used long-range missiles from the very start of this war. So using the recent injection of North Korean long-range missiles seems to be a little disingenuous.

VAUSE: Mick Ryan, as always sir, good to see you, and thank you for your insights. Appreciate it.

RYAN: Thanks, John.

VAUSE: This final note, after authorizing this funding for Ukraine, U.S. president detailed the weapons Ukraine would receive and where they would come from.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: This package is literally an investment. Not only in Ukraine's security, but in Europe's security and our own security. We're sending Ukraine equipment from our own stockpiles. Then we'll replenish those stockpiles with new products made by American companies here in America. Patriot Missiles made an Arizona, Javelins made in Alabama, artillery shells made in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Texas. In other words, we're helping Ukraine while at the same time, investing in our own industrial base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: That's just a fraction of that $61 billion will go directly to Ukraine as the president noted, mostly spent on U.S. weapons, much of that for the U.S. military. And yet for months, MAGA Republicans in Congress have argued the billions of dollars would be better spent at home, on domestic problems. And listen to House Speaker Mike Johnson speaking back in January. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: Or we even talk about Ukraine. I am going to tell the president what I'm telling all of you and we've told the American people. Border, border, border. We have to take care of our own house. We have to secure our own border before we talk about doing anything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Not long, though, after the Democrats did strike a deal for funding for Ukraine, which was linked to border security and they did that by giving in to almost every demand Republicans have ever made on tougher immigration bills and it still wasn't enough. Whatever the reason was for delaying military assistance to Ukraine, it wasn't over spending the money at home and it wasn't over border security.

Commercial break, when we come back, the U.S. is moving ahead with potential ban on TikTok. But the company CEO pushing back claiming U.S. is stomping on freedom of speech. More on that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:20:49]

VAUSE: The U.S. secretary of state is in China with a to-do list, which is a mile long. Antony Blinken has been meeting with Chinese officials and the U.S. business community in Shanghai. He flies to Beijing in the coming hours for a meeting with his Chinese counterpart. Washington wants to improve relations with Beijing, which hit a historic low last year. Still, Blinken is also expected to push back on China's stance on Taiwan and its support for Russia's arms industry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: Just arrived here in Shanghai in the People's Republic of China to work on issues that matter to the American people and of course, we'll be dealing with areas where we have real differences with China, dealing with them directly, communicating clearly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: CNN bureau chief Steven Jiang joins us now from Beijing.

So, Steven, this seems almost mission impossible with everything that Blinken is expected to be doing on this trip. What would be the measure of success here?

STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Look, John, the risk of sounding like a broken record, this kind of trips increasingly best described as high stakes, low expectations, and add to that amid growing frustrations from both sides with each of course holding an ever longer list of grievances and complaints against the other. You just heard the secretary say there. And among his top issues, of

course, is Beijing's continued support for Russia's defense industrial base that has allowed Moscow to continue to wage its brutal war in Ukraine, especially at a time when Kyiv is facing severe equipment and weapons shortages.

Now this is not new. Janet Yellen, the Treasury secretary, raised that with her Chinese counterparts just a few weeks ago, suggesting there will be consequences if the Chinese continue to do so, although not specifying what kind of potential sanctions could be levied against the Chinese entities and companies that not only provided -- providing Russia with technologies and tools, but also financial support.

The other issue, as you know, sometimes called China's reddest red line is Taiwan. As you mentioned, we are less than a month away from that island democracy swears in a new president again for the third time from the traditional independence leading party, much to the anger and frustration of Beijing.

Now, in that massive foreign aid package just signed into law by President Biden, there is actually more than $8 billion earmarked for Taiwan and other U.S. allies in the region. That is not sitting well with Beijing as you can imagine, along with the news of forced divestment of TikTok in the U.S.

But so far, the official response from Beijing on all of these issues have been relatively muted perhaps because Blinken is here. So behind closed doors, they're expected to talk about all these issues, but the Chinese, of course, have been pushing back as well, especially on the economic front, on that issue of industrial overcapacity, for example. They call that hypocrisy, fake news, a smear campaign, and instead pointing finger at Washington's growing list of investigations and, quote-unquote, "crackdown" targeting China along with increasingly stringent export controls.

All of that is why we hear China's strongman leader Xi Jinping time and again emphasize the need for self-reliance in key technology. So at the end of it, John, it's all well and good. This kind of high- level communications exchanges are resuming, but what the Americans are asking for really touched on the very core of the current Chinese political system and its foreign policy under Xi Jinping.

So it's very unlikely to see any major breakthroughs, even a state media here has acknowledged that -- John.

VAUSE: Yes, it's a good point. Blinken must have the heart of a lion right now to face all that.

Steven Jiang, in Beijing, thank you very much, sir.

We'll have more now on Blinken's visit to China, as well as where U.S.-China relations go from here, and for that we head to New York and Jamie Metzl, a veteran of the U.S. National Security Council, the State Department, as well as the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He's currently a senior fellow with the Atlantic Counsel and author of the upcoming book "Super Convergence." Jamie, good to see you. It's been a while.

JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Hey, John, nice to see you.

VAUSE: Likewise, mate. OK. The big ticket item for the U.S. is Russia and China's backdoor support for rebuilding Putin's military. Again, here's Secretary Blinken speaking last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: If China purports on the one hand to want good relations with Europe and other countries, it can't on the other hand be fueling what is the biggest threat to European security since the end of the Cold War?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[00:25:11]

VAUSE: Can Blinken convey that message to Beijing, that supporting Moscow is a losing bet, and now is the time to stop? Can he do that effectively?

METZL: He can because the United States has the ability to sanction major Chinese companies and major Chinese banks. Many of the missiles that are slamming into Ukraine and murdering people have Chinese components, particularly Chinese computer chips, they're Chinese machine tools, Chinese economic support for Russia.

China is fully backing the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And if China continues, it will be appropriate and frankly inevitable for the United States to inflict economic at least pain on China.

VAUSE: There's also the seller ban law, which is now on the books in the U.S. for TikTok, forcing the social media app's Chinese parent company to sell or face a ban out of concerns for U.S. national security. Here's reaction from the CEO of TikTok.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHOU CHEW, TIKTOK CEO: It's obviously a disappointing moment, but it does not need to be a defining one. Essentially ironic because the freedom of expression on TikTok reflects the same American values that make the United States a beacon of freedom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So, Jamie, it's all about free speech, freedom of expression, love and kumbaya over TikTok, right?

METZL: John, I know you're setting me up for this one. That is so preposterous. The basic point is that TikTok is ultimately controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, per China's national security law. So Tokyo Rose didn't say, hey, I have First Amendment protection during World War II. The entire point is that TikTok poses a national security threat to the United States, not every day, but when you look at what is being -- what the algorithm is promoting on TikTok, it's promoting pro-Hamas, pro-Iran, pro-Russia, pro-China, pro-Putin.

And it's blocking any consideration of Tibet, Taiwan, Xinjiang, South China Sea, and even if it weren't, the fact that this is a company like all major Chinese multinationals, ultimately by -- again, by Chinese law controlled by the Chinese Communist Party means this has nothing to do with freedom of expression. And if nine months from now or 12 months from now TikTok is not sold, and it is banned here in the United States, the 170 million Americans using TikTok will do exactly what the Indians did when TikTok was banned there four years ago. Very, very quickly and easily migrated to Instagram, to Google Shorts and other forums.

VAUSE: It's curious on what impact TikTok has had on protesters currently on college campuses across the United States in support of ending the war in Gaza. But anyway, look, reportedly, here's what's on Blinken's agenda apart from Russia and TikTok. Billions of dollars in foreign aid to Taiwan, which Beijing considers a rogue province, tensions in the South China Sea, cheap Chinese exports costing American jobs, China's ramped-up nuclear weapons program, also the export of precursor chemicals which are used illegally to make fentanyl in the U.S., the wrongful detention of three U.S. citizens.

I mean, this list goes on. Blinken is already halfway through a three- day visit. On the fourth day he rested and said it was good. But to set a list, obviously it's impossible to get through that list. But does it say that while relations are improving, there's a long way to go and there's a lot that could still go wrong?

METZL: So I don't know whether relations are improving. Relations are pretty bad right now between the United States and China. But the basic fact and the reason why Secretary Blinken is there is that China and the United States are the two most influential countries in the world. Whatever our differences we need to keep talking, we need to be actively looking for common ground. We need to be working to minimize our differences. That doesn't mean that the United States needs to roll over and let China be so aggressive and run roughshod over the Philippines in the South China Sea and doing all the terrible things that China is very actively doing around the world. And both here in the United States, you mentioned fentanyl and everything else.

But we have to keep talking. We have common interests, climate change, preventing future pandemics and don't get me started on COVID-19 origins. There's a lot that China is doing that is very harmful and very dangerous. And certainly China has critiques of the United States, but like in the height of the Cold War, we need to keep talking because if this relationship goes totally off the rails, it's going to be bad for everyone, including ourselves.

VAUSE: And then we have at China's most infamous state-controlled tabloid, "The Global Times," predicting that given that the U.S. continues to send signals or pressuring for demands, experts hold low expectations for a positive outcome from Blinken's ongoing China visits. So in your assessment, the fact that they're talking is in fact a success in itself. [00:30:06]

METZL: Yes. We have to keep trying. I think it's very, very unlikely that China is going to say that we're going to dump our BFF, Putin, because you're saying it.

But I do think that the United States has made clear. Secretary Yellen said there will be significant consequences if China continues on its course, certainly, of supporting Putin.

And the United States is going to have to prioritize and say, hey, hey, these are the 123 things that we really care about if you continue down this path. And I think that support for Putin will be one of them.

There are going to be very significant consequences. And the United States has more leverage than we have in the past, because China's economy is sinking and its buildings, half of the buildings and half of its cities are sinking.

China is in big, big trouble. And it's not going to be able to be the bad boy of international affairs the way it has been in the past. So I certainly think that China has a possibility of turning a corner of behaving in a much more responsible and constructive way in the world. And if we keep talking, maybe together we can find those opportunities.

But I'm not optimistic.

VAUSE: But if you don't talk at all, it's never going to happen. So Jamie Metzl there, good to see you. Thank you, sir. Thanks for the insight and the analysis.

METZL: Anytime. Nice to see you.

VAUSE: You, too.

Well, almost four years since Donald Trump tied to overturn the White House vote that sent him out of the White House. Some of his closest allies are now facing legal challenges and consequences for their efforts in that campaign. Details next on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: New legal consequences for some of Donald Trump's closest allies involved in the alleged plot to overturn the 2020 election results with an indictment from an Arizona grand jury, reportedly for the former White House even staff, Mark Meadows, as well as Rudy Giuliani, for allegedly deceiving the citizens of Arizona after the election.

The charges in the indictment range from conspiracy and forgery to engaging in fraudulent schemes. While the former president himself is not among those charged, he is referred to as an unindicted coconspirator. Well, it's a big day ahead for Donald Trump. The former U.S. president will be in New York for the continuation of his criminal hush money trial, while in Washington, the Supreme Court will hear arguments on whether he should have absolute presidential immunity, including for his attempts to overturn that said election in 2020.

Trump maintains the alleged acts were part of his duties as president, although judges have rejected those claims in every instance.

Multiple courts have agreed Trump's alleged efforts to subvert the election were based on his efforts to seek a second term in office and not a presidential act.

The Supreme Court is now bound by lower court rulings on Trump's actions -- is not bound, rather, by those rulings.

[00:35:07]

The high court's justices appeared deeply divided after hearing arguments over a strict abortion ban in the state of Idaho and whether states can criminalize abortions in medical emergencies.

The court's ruling is expected to -- by the end of June in the midst of an election campaign where abortion is a very big issue for voters.

CNN's Paula Reid has the latest now from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, the Supreme Court heard another historic case on abortion as protesters on both sides of the issue gathered out front.

The high-stakes hearing focused on Idaho's abortion ban and how it applies in medical emergencies. The state allows exceptions when the life of a mother is at risk, but the Biden administration sued the state, arguing that federal law requires the state to allow the procedure if it is needed to stabilize a patient, even when the mother's condition is not yet life-threatening.

Joshua Turner argued for the state and faced a barrage of medical hypotheticals from the liberal justices.

ELENA KAGAN, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE U.S.: All of these cases are rare, but within these rare cases, there's a significant number where the woman is -- her life is not imperiled, but she's going to lose her reproductive organs. She's going to lose the ability to have children in the future unless an abortion takes place.

REID (voice-over): Conservative Justice Amy Coney Barrett joined her liberal colleagues in pressing Turner on the state's position and how it leaves doctors open to prosecution.

JOSHUA TURNER, ATTORNEY FOR IDAHO: If they were exercising their medical judgment, they could in good faith, determine that life-saving care was necessary. And that's my point. Is this a subjective standard?

AMY CONEY BARRETT, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE U.S.: But some doctors couldn't. Some doctors might reach a contrary conclusion, I think is what Sotomayor is asking you. So --

TURNER: Well, in --

BARRETT: -- if they reached -- if they reached the conclusion that the legislature's doctors did, would they be prosecuted under Idaho law?

TURNER: No. No. If they -- if they reached the conclusion that the -- Dr. Reynolds, Dr. White did, that these were life --

BARRETT: What if the prosecutor thought differently? What if the prosecutor thought, Well, I don't think any good faith doctor could draw that conclusion. I'm going to put on my expert.

TURNER: And that, your honor, is the nature of prosecutorial discretion.

REID (voice-over): Justice Barrett and Chief Justice John Roberts had tough questions for both sides and could end up being the swing votes that determine the outcome.

Elizabeth Prelogar argued for the government that Idaho is subject to a federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA.

ELIZABETH PRELOGAR, SOLICITOR GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: Idaho doctors have to shut their eyes to everything except death. Whereas under EMTALA, you're supposed to be thinking about things like is she about to lose her fertility? Is her uterus going to become incredibly scarred because of the bleeding? Is she about to undergo the possibility of kidney failure?

REID (voice-over): She faced questions from conservatives about how to protect unborn children.

SAMUEL ALITO, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE U.S.: Have you seen abortion statutes that use the phrase unborn child? Doesn't that tell us something?

PRELOGAR: It tells us that Congress wanted to expand the protection for pregnant women so that they could get the same duties to screen and stabilize when they have a condition that's threatening the health and well-being of the unborn child.

REID: A decision on this case is expected in late June, right in the middle of the presidential election season.

And historically, Republicans have used the abortion issue to rally their supporters. But since Roe was overturned, the issue has actually helped Democrats.

So a lot riding on this decision from the high court.

Paula Reid, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Still to come in -- still to come here, around the corner the calvary. Runaway horses running amok in central London, right in the middle of a busy morning commute.

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VAUSE: A morning commute in London like no other. Two horses on the loose in central London.

The British army says civil calvary horses from the king's bodyguard detail escaped during a routine exercise early Wednesday. While on the loose, the horses injured at least four people, smashed a taxi window, shattered the windscreen of a double-decker bus.

They've all been recovered. Several injured horses are now receiving treatment.

Doctors in New York have successfully completed the first transplant surgery combining a mechanical heart pump and a gene-altered kidney from a pig.

Surgeons at New York University performed the surgery on a 54-year-old woman, New Jersey woman who had heart failure and end-stage kidney disease and had just days or weeks to live. And because of other medical issues, she could not have a standard heart or kidney transplant. Doctors say she was ready to try anything.

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LISA PISANO, PIG KIDNEY RECIPIENT: When the opportunity first came to me, I was like, I've got to try it. I've tried everything else, and I've altered all other resources.

So when this opportunity came, I was going to take advantage of it.

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VAUSE: Scientists were able to make precise edits to the pig's DNA to try and prevent the patient from rejecting the organs. Expert say transplants like this of animal organs into humans are critical to solve an organ shortage problem.

Every day, 17 people in the U.S. die while waiting for an organ transplant.

I'm John Vause, back at the top of the hour with more CNN NEWSROOM, but please stay with us. WORLD SPORT starts after a very short break. See you back here in 18 minutes.

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