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CNN International: U.S. Supreme Court to Hear Presidential Immunity Arguments; Arizona Grand Jury Indicts Key Trump Allies; Hamas Releases Video of Israeli American Hostage; Pro-Palestinian Protests on Campuses; Deadly Flooding in Kenya; Blinken Walking Diplomatic Tightrope During China Visit. Aired 4-4:30a ET
Aired April 25, 2024 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[04:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Presidents have to be given total immunity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The idea that somebody can commit crimes in the Oval Office and then in perpetuity escape all accountability is inimical to American law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The presence of police with batons, chemical weapons, pepper bullets is making us all on edge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not an expression of the First Amendment. This is not an exchange of ideas. This is this is threats and intimidation of violence against Jewish students.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every single thing they owned was swept away by these flash floods.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us from around the world. I'm Max Foster. It's Thursday April the 25th, 9 a.m. here in London, 4 a.m. in Washington, where in the coming hours the U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments on whether Donald Trump should have absolute presidential immunity, including for his alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election. Trump maintains the acts were part of his presidential duties.
In their filing, Trump's attorneys argue, quote, a former president enjoys absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for his official acts. Criminal immunity arises directly from the executive vesting clause and the separation of powers.
While judges have rejected those claims in many instances, the Supreme Court isn't held to their rulings. CNN's Brian Todd breaks down what's at stake today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Presidents have to be given total immunity. They have to be allowed to do their job. in arguing that he has presidential immunity.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In arguing that he has presidential immunity, Donald Trump says if former presidents could be criminally prosecuted for official acts they took as president, that threat would loom over everything presidents do.
TRUMP: They have to make decisions and they have to make them free of all terror that can be rained upon them when they leave office or even before they leave office.
TODD (voice-over): Trump's making that argument before the Supreme Court in the January 6th election subversion case brought by special counsel Jack Smith, who counters Trump's argument by saying no one is above the law.
NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The idea that somebody can commit crimes in the Oval Office and then in perpetuity for the rest of their life, escape all accountability is inimical to American law and the Constitution.
TODD (voice-over): The Supreme Court has barred civil lawsuits against a former president for official acts while in the White House but hasn't addressed whether criminal charges can be filed. President Richard Nixon tried to invoke limited presidential immunity over judicial orders in 1974 when he tried to avoid handing over his White House tapes to the special counsel investigating the Watergate scandal. He didn't try to invoke immunity over criminal prosecution.
The Supreme Court ruled Nixon had to turn the tapes over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the Supreme Court decided that he had to turn over the tapes, Richard Nixon stopped making the argument that somehow they were protected by immunity or executive privilege, he turned them over.
TODD (voice-over): And those tapes contained evidence that Nixon was involved in the Watergate cover up shortly after handing the tapes over. Nixon was out.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow.
TODD (voice-over): In this case, Trump argues his actions after the 2020 election were all part of his official duties as president.
TRUMP: We found tremendous order for a determinative, but we worked on that. That's what I was doing.
TODD (voice-over): Jack Smith disputes that, saying Trump was working to overturn the legitimate results where Joe Biden won and he lost. A Supreme Court victory for Trump, absolute blanket immunity could help him in at least one other criminal case as well. ALAN MORRISON, PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Could very well end the Georgia case as to him, or at least cut it down significantly. It has no impact in my judgment on the Mar-a-Lago case, because everything he has been charged with occurred after January 21, 2021.
TODD (voice-over): And even if he doesn't get a clean win at the Supreme Court, Trump could get a partial win.
MORRISON: The court could say that some of his actions are official, and they have to send it back to the lower court. Trump would love to have this go back to the lower court because his principal weapon now is delay.
TODD: Even if Prosecutor Jack Smith wins at the Supreme Court and can proceed with this case, he will likely have lost valuable time. The court may not rule on Trump's immunity claim until late June.
[04:05:00]
And if that happens, there may not be enough time to start Trump's January 6th trial before the election.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: You can watch special coverage of Donald Trump's immunity case starting 9 a.m. in Washington, 2 p.m. in London on CNN and CNN Max.
Meanwhile, in Arizona, Trump's alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election are bringing in new legal troubles for some of his closest allies. An Arizona grand jury has handed up an indictment against several key figures, reportedly including former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and Rudy Giuliani.
The state says they deceived the citizens of Arizona after the election.
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KRIS MAYES, ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL: The people of Arizona elected President Biden. Unwilling to accept this fact, the defendants charged by the state grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent the lawful transfer of the presidency. Whatever their reasoning was, the plot to violate the law must be answered for and I was elected to uphold the law of this state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: The charges in the indictment range from conspiracy and forgery to engaging in fraudulent schemes. CNN's Zachary Cohen has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Another indictment for efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, this time here in Arizona, as not only the 11 fake electors now facing criminal charges, but members of Trump's inner circle, his inner orbit that helped push that effort to overturn the election nationally. Now there were seven key swing states that were targeted by the Trump campaign and the Trump team in that push. And this indictment points the finger directly at members of Trump's inner circle for helping orchestrate that effort.
That includes people like White House -- former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. That includes people like the former president's one-time personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and conservative lawyer, John Eastman, who has been labeled the architect of the fake elector scheme. And that's really what's at question here in Arizona at the center of this indictment is the effort and the alleged conspiracy to put together these 11 fake electors and have them sign a fraudulent certificate that was ultimately submitted to the U.S. Congress.
And the indictment alleges that the scheme only failed because Mike Pence declined to participate at the end of the day on January 6, 2021. Now we'll have to see how this criminal indictment plays out. Well, the next steps are initial court appearances. We could see some plea deals after that.
But prosecutors in Arizona joining those in Georgia and Michigan to bring criminal charges for this fake elector scheme, and especially at a time when the federal case against Donald Trump has largely stalled because of the Supreme Court challenges.
Now, the prosecutors here in Arizona are bringing these charges almost three years after these alleged actings took place. But Donald Trump himself is listed as an unindicted co-conspirator in this case. They joined Michigan as listing Donald Trump as sort of at the top of this alleged conspiracy.
Zachary Cohen, CNN, Phoenix.
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FOSTER: On the battlefield in Gaza, Israel is stepping up airstrikes in the north with warplanes pounding the region for a second straight day on Wednesday. And the government spokesperson says Israel is moving ahead with plans for an all-out assault on Hamas in the southern city of Rafah, despite international objections. There are reports Israel plans to evacuate civilians before the operation.
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DAVID MENCER, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: Israel is moving ahead with our operation to target Hamas in Rafah, destroyed at least 18 or 19 of Hamas's 24 battalions. But the four battalions which remain in Rafah cannot be shielded from Israel. They will be attacked.
(END VIDEO CLIP) FOSTER: Well, Rafah is now home to more than half a million -- half of rather Gaza's 2.3 million residents, many living in tent cities and other makeshift encampments. Hamas has released video of an Israeli American hostage badly wounded in the October 7 attack.
The first proof that Hersch Goldberg-Polin is still alive. It is not clear when the video was recorded, but he makes references to Passover and his nearly 200 days in captivity, suggesting it is from the past week. Part of this or his left arm missing. A former hostage says it was blown off by a grenade during the Hamas attack.
Let's bring in Scott McLean. What's been the reaction to this video? I mean, some hope, but also very depressing.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Max. Good morning. Look, an IDF spokesperson last night called this a psychological terror video and said that it was evidence of how sick the terror group Hamas really is.
And he said that his message to Hersch Goldberg-Polin's parents is that they are doing everything that they can to get these hostages back as quickly as they can.
Perhaps this video was released to try to put some pressure on the Israeli government to strike some kind of a deal. We have already seen there is domestic pressure within Israel.
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We've seen protests over the week or so and far beyond that. And even yesterday, in response to the release of this specific video, there were protests in Jerusalem calling on the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to do more.
Now, in the video itself, Hersch Goldberg-Polin, this California-born Israeli American citizen who was kidnapped from this music festival in southern Israel on October 7th, rails against the Israeli government, in particular, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for passing up opportunities to make a deal to bring the hostages home. It's also, of course, worth pointing out the obvious that this man is a hostage, has been for 200-plus days now, and it is almost certain that he is speaking under some level of duress.
In that video, he also talks to his family directly, says that he loves them and he knows that they are doing everything they can to try to secure his release. Goldberg-Polin's family also put out a statement saying Hersch's cry is the collective cry of all of the hostages and their time is rapidly running out. We also heard directly from his parents in this video. Watch.
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JON POLIN, FATHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: Seeing a video of Hersch today is overwhelming. We're relieved to see him alive. But we are also concerned about his health and well-being, as well as that of all of the other hostages and all of those suffering in this region. RACHEL GOLDBERG, MOTHER OF HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN: If you can hear this, we heard your voice today for the first time in 201 days. And if you can hear us, I am telling you, we are telling you, we love you. Stay strong. Survive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLEAN: So Jon Polin there making the case in that video to the countries involved in the negotiations to do more to make a deal. To sort of seize the moment that they have right now. But at the moment, Hamas and the Israelis don't have a lot of common ground that makes any kind of a deal seem imminent. The Hamas continues to insist on free movement of people within Gaza, a full withdrawal of Israeli troops and a ceasefire that will become permanent at some point in the future.
Three things that the Israelis would be very hard pressed to actually agree to and really have made no indication that they actually would be willing to agree to because, of course, the Israeli government and the prime minister continues to insist that this war only ends when Hamas is completely destroyed. And that means also going into the one place that they have not yet sent ground troops. And that is Rafah on the southern part of the Gaza Strip, a place where you have a million and a half, perhaps, people taking shelter there at the moment.
FOSTER: Where are we quickly on the ceasefire talks?
MCLEAN: Yes, again, look, the Israelis continue to say that they're going to go into Rafah. This is the latest that we've heard from the Israeli government. In fact, they say that they have set a date for that.
So it doesn't seem again, like there's anything imminent. In fact, we have satellite images, Max, that show that there are tent encampments expanding around Rafah around Khan Younis, where potentially the Israelis could try to move some of those civilians out. So none of this looks all that great for any kind of a breakthrough in the negotiations -- Max.
FOSTER: OK, Scott, thank you so much for joining us from Istanbul.
From New York to Austin, Los Angeles to Boston and many places in between, pro-Palestinian protests are shaking up American universities. State troopers in riot gear confronted demonstrators at the University of Texas, arresting at least 34 of them.
On Wednesday, some of the troopers were on horseback. The Palestine Solidarity Committee in Austin had organized a walkout of occupation in the school's south lawn. To see how these demonstrations are spreading nationwide, take a look at this map.
They've been held everywhere, really, from New Mexico to Minnesota, Florida to Michigan, and of course, at Columbia in New York.
The U.S. House Speaker visited the campus on Wednesday and called for the university's president to resign if she can't stop the chaos. Mike Johnson, who's facing demands for his own resignation, was heckled during a news conference.
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REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA) U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: My message to the students inside the encampment is, go back to class and stop the nonsense. Look, if we want to have a debate on campus about the merits of these things, let's do that. But you can't intimidate your fellow students and make them stay home from class.
Think about that. Is that right? Do you think that's right? Stop wasting your parents' money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: But some of the day's most dramatic scenes erupted at the University of Southern California, right in the heart of Los Angeles, where nearly 100 protesters were arrested. Now, a short while ago, USC officials announced that the protest is now over and the private campus will remain closed until further notice. Students and staff will be allowed to enter with proper identification.
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CNN's Nick Payton -- or Nick Watt, rather, spent much of the day covering the demonstration, and has this report. Students and staff will be allowed to enter with proper identification.
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WATT: We will not stop. We will not rest. So it does not look like these people plan to leave.
Are you planning to leave? Are you planning to stay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to jail today.
TODD: You're going to jail?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a good day to go to jail. That's Martin Luther King said. I can't believe they're going to start locking up senior citizens. I'm 66. And somebody had to come and support these young people. They're not alone. That's why I'm here.
WATT: OK. So earlier in the day, the last time the police tried to come onto this square, it did not go well. They came on this morning. It wasn't LAPD. It was campus police. They tried to clear tents, and it got very ugly, very fast.
Demonstrators haranguing them, cussing them out. Then it got physical, a lot of pushing. One person was arrested, put in a squad car. The crowd surrounded that car and would not let it leave. They were begging the police, ordering the police to let that protester go. The police did. And then the temperature dropped dramatically.
It was calm all afternoon. Of course, there was from the river to the sea. There was there is only one solution intifada revolution. All of that. So Jewish students made to feel uncomfortable.
They closed the campus down, they locked the closed the gates, you had to have ID to get in. The college blames a lot of this on outside agitators. They wanted to keep those people out.
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FOSTER: The Israeli Prime Minister has condemned the pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses and says they have to be stopped.
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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: What's happening in America's college campuses is horrific. Anti-Semitic mobs have taken over leading universities. They call for the annihilation of Israel. They attack Jewish students. They attack Jewish faculty. This is reminiscent of what happened in German universities in the 1930s.
It's unconscionable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Meanwhile, Hamas is criticizing the Biden administration for the protesters arrests, saying their right to free expression had been violated. A member of the Hamas political bureau accused the White House of refusing to acknowledge that the American public has discovered the truth and said suppression will cost the Biden administration in future elections.
Officials in Kenya say flash flooding in Nairobi has escalated to extreme levels after days of heavy rain. At least 32 people have died according to the United Nations Humanitarian Affairs Office, and some neighborhoods have been completely submerged. CNN's Larry Madowo is in one village attempting to salvage what's left with more rain on the way.
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LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Where I'm standing used to be somebody's house. All this area used to be people's homes, all swept away. What's getting cleared back there, that debris that's left over, that's what used to be their homes.
In these informal settlements around Nairobi, the houses are made of wood, they're made of iron sheets. They're very easily swept away when there's flooding, like what was experienced. It's a cycle. If it's not the flooding, it's a fire, and then flooding and a fire, and it goes on and on and on.
You see a lot of people trying to collect whatever little is left, what their homes used to be some iron sheets, maybe some valuables, trying to figure out how to rebuild their lives after a devastating situation where every single thing they owned was swept away by these flash floods.
JECINTER AGUNJA, ACTIVIST AND MATHARE, KENYA RESIDENT: Nothing has come from the government. We only help ourselves because nobody has come to the rescue. You feel like you don't come from this country, you are maybe inferior, because if it was somewhere else, maybe middle class or the highest class, government could have responded asap.
MADOWO: Residents in these areas, informal settlements, or slums as they're better known, often complain about emergency services not getting to them during disasters. But here's the extra complication. It's starting to rain one more time.
The Canadian Meteorological Department has warned of heavy to very heavy rainfall still to be expected. And the fear here is that that may lead to a new wave of flooding.
Larry Madowo, CNN, Nairobi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: In Bangladesh, they're facing a heatwave so extreme many people gathered in the capital city of Dakar to pray for rain. Schools have been shut down across the country as temperatures reached 42 degrees Celsius or 108 degrees Fahrenheit.
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MAHMUDUL HASAN, TEACHER (through translator): In order for us to get rain, as well as Allah's blessings amid this drought, we gathered here to offer prayers. We asked for rain from Allah. Students, orphans, teachers and local people joined the prayers. We all prayed together for rain.
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FOSTER: Temperatures are expected to stay above average throughout the rest of the month as well.
The blades of iconic red windmill that sits on the top of Paris's most famous cabaret club broke off and fell to the ground overnight.
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A spokesperson for the Moulin Rouge says the sails fell within an hour after the late -- or the last show ended and no one was hurt, thankfully. No word yet on what caused the mishap, but the accident comes just months before France hosts the Summer Olympic Games.
Much more still ahead this hour.
Protests in Washington as the U.S. Supreme Court hears arguments over controversial abortion law that could shape health care for millions of American women.
Plus, the U.S. Secretary of State is on his way to Beijing for high stakes talks with Chinese leaders We'll have a live report on his visit.
And why hundreds of flights have been cancelled or delayed across Europe today.
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FOSTER: U.S. Secretary of State is walking a diplomatic tightrope in China. Antony Blinken is expected to land in Beijing any minute now after wrapping up his meetings in Shanghai and is set to meet his Chinese counterpart in the coming hours. Washington wants to improve relations with Beijing which hit a historic low last year.
But Blinken is also expected to push back on China's stance on Taiwan and its support for Russia's arms industry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We just arrived here in Shanghai in the People's Republic of China to work on issues that matter to the American people. And of course, we'll be dealing with areas where we have real differences with China, dealing with them directly, communicating clearly.
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FOSTER: For more, let's go to CNN's Steven Jiang joins us live from Beijing. I mean, Taiwan's always going to be a very sensitive issue. But around that, presumably, there is some common ground on other issues.
STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: That's right. And Max, we understand the Secretary of State just landed here in Beijing and now on his way into the city. There's a lot riding on this trip if you will.
But to at the risk of sounding like a broken record, this kind of trip's increasingly best described as high stakes, low expectations. And I should add, amid growing frustrations from both sides, with each holding this ever longer list of grievances and complaints against the other.
As you mentioned, topping the U.S. agenda is Beijing's continued support for Russia's defense industrial base that has allowed Moscow to continue to wage its brutal war against Ukraine.
Now, this is something American officials have become increasingly vocal about in recent weeks and saying there would be serious consequences for Chinese entities if they continue to do so.
And there are, of course, a lot of Chinese companies and industries that continue to support Russia by providing tools and technologies, but also with financial support.
[04:25:00]
Taiwan, as you mentioned, another hot button issue, especially since we are less than a month away from the island democracy swearing in its new president. Remember, in that massive foreign aid package, just signing to law by President Biden, there is actually more than $8 billion set aside for Taiwan and other U.S. allies in this region.
So the Chinese obviously are not happy about any of this, including that forced the divestment of TikTok in the U.S. as well, which is also in that law.
But so far, they have been relatively muted about all of these issues, perhaps because Blinken is here and they're going to talk about all of these thorny issues behind closed doors. They have a lot to push back as well, from their perspective, especially on the economic fronts. They've been rejecting this concept of industrial overcapacity from China harming the global, global growth.
They've also been blaming Washington for cracking down on Chinese companies, industries, launching investigations, imposing export control.
So the good thing is both sides are talking despite all these differences. But a lot of experts are concerned whether or not they just they're talking past each other, or they can somehow turn all of these conversations into some meaningful, impactful dialogue that very much remains to be seen.
But, Max, it's a big ask from the Americans because what they are asking about or for is really very much the core, the foundation of the current political system and foreign policy of China under strongman leader Xi Jinping -- Max.
FOSTER: I'm just wondering how Chinese media is previewing this. Are they showing some optimism? Or are they pessimistic about what can be achieved?
JIANG: Not a lot of optimism -- not a lot of optimism for sure with state media like Global Times saying little optimism during this trip with not much breakthrough expected, not surprising given the current political climate.
But it is interesting to see that despite these tensions, continuing or even growing in some cases, they are still sending these high level government officials. I just came back from the eastern port city of Qingdao where China hosted an international naval symposium.
And the U.S., the Pentagon actually sent the new head of its U.S. Pacific fleet there just a few weeks after sending its new missile launch system to the Philippines. So at least the conversations are ongoing -- Max.
FOSTER: OK, seeing Antony Blinken there, about to come off the plane, I believe. So arriving there in Beijing as he continues that tour of China, a key visit, as Steven was explaining, and Steven will be back later as we get any updates on that.
As he prepares for talks in Beijing, the Chinese app TikTok could lose its users in the U.S. Steven was referring to that. Still ahead, why the popular app may becoming off limits really for
Americans in the coming months.
Plus, Japan Airlines new CEO is the first woman and former flight attendant to climb to that very top job. What she tells CNN what she hopes she can achieve?
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