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Tornadoes And Severe Weather Devastate Parts Of Nebraska; Protests Regarding Israel-Hamas War And Palestinian Civilian Casualties Continue On Campuses Across U.S.; Police Arrest Pro- Palestinian Protestors At Emory University In Atlanta; Prosecution Calls Three Witnesses So Far In Criminal Trial Of Former President Donald Trump; Professor Criticizes University Of Southern California President For Calling Los Angeles Police Department On Pro-Palestinian Protestors; President Biden Claims He's Willing To Debate Donald Trump; Americans Who Believe In Christian Supremacy In U.S. Profiled. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired April 27, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:11]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And more and are breaking news this hour, after devastating tornadoes rip through the central plains overnight causing widespread damage, now a stronger storm system is taking aim at the same region. Right now, a tornado watch has been issued for 1.5 million people across eastern Kansas and southeastern Nebraska where they are bracing for tornadoes, tennis ball sized hail, and damaging winds.

There were reports, about 80 reports of tornadoes across five states on Friday, including this one in Lincoln, Nebraska. And despite the large scale of destruction near Omaha, there are no fatalities reported. And now, rescue crews are up against the clock searching flattened homes for anyone potentially trapped before more storms roll in.

For the latest now I'm joined by CNN's Lucy Kavanaugh in hard-hit Elkhorn, Nebraska, and meteorologist Elisa Raffa, who is tracking all of this in the CNN Weather Center. Lucy, to you first. What are you hearing from residents?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, a lot of disbelief. People still trying to grapple with the reality of losing a lot of their homes. Again, like you mentioned, Elkhorn is one of the hardest hit areas. I want to show you that house right there where there are some families. We spoke to the owners of that home. There was a mother and her child. They were home. They heard the sirens. They ran into the basement, they sheltered in place. And when they emerged, you can see so much of that home destroyed, the vehicles unusable. Right now, the sister and the brother-in-law and some other friends and neighbors came by to help. What they are trying to do and what we've been observing them do is sort of pack up whatever belongings were salvageable, try to pack that in, take that to a safer place. Of course, a lot of these folks are going to have to figure out where to stay while the rebuilding process takes place. But it is too soon to get there. Some of the folks we've spoken to said we have no idea where we're going to go.

This home, we were not able to speak to the owners, but you can see, again, the force of that twister that touched down yesterday at 4:30 p.m. local time. The house, some of it is still standing, but that car trapped inside there. A lot of these homes are newer construction, built around 2022. They didn't do so well in this particular area.

I want to also show you down the street. There are a lot of volunteers. That's the homeowners, but also volunteers, neighbors from areas that weathered the twisters better, who are here to help. They are doing cleanup efforts right now. They are again trying to salvage whatever is usable for the families.

We haven't seen cleanup crews, official cleanup crews on site, but we know that first responders were here checking for anyone that might have been trapped in the home, clearing the home. That's what some that graffiti is all about.

And that home right there, we were able to speak to the homeowner. We talked about her a few hours ago. They've lived in this area for a while. They've never actually lived through a twister before. And so when that siren went off, one of the homeowners were saying a relative of her thought the siren meant to run outside for safety. They had to -- they had to pull the mother back in. But it was a terrifying experience trying to hide in the basement and weather the storm.

Take a listen to some sound from another survivor who experienced it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got home as fast as we could. I got my babies in the basement. We covered up with a blanket. We got our dog down there. All of a sudden the lights went out, and we heard everything being thrown around above us.

[14:05:01]

And it was so scary. It was so scary. Our neighbors, everybody, everyone's houses are gone. They're gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: So much emotion in that experience. Now, Nebraska law enforcement officials say only two people suffered minor injuries at this point, but we are expecting a press hour from all of the agencies on the ground here at about 3:00 pm local time. So we'll keep you posted. WHITFIELD: OK, please do. I mean, it's absolutely incredible. Just looking like a really messy construction site just given a wall up here and there, and just plywood and debris just strewn about everywhere. Lucy Kafanov, we'll check back with you momentarily.

Elisa, it is day two of severe weather in this area. There's more potentially on the way?

ELISA RAFFA, CNN WEATHER ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, some of the same areas that were hit yesterday could find strong thunderstorms again. For right now, the tornado watches are south of there, over parts of Kansas and Oklahoma. That's where storms are blowing up right now.

Now, I'm showing you this watch that was just issued for parts of Oklahoma just to the west there of Oklahoma City. This watch has a tag that we call particularly dangerous situation. So it's not just a tornado watch. This is a tornado watch for incredibly strong tornadoes. So it's got that extra layer of urgency that people need to really take these storms very seriously.

Right now, no tornado warnings, but we do have a bunch of severe thunderstorm warnings as some of these storms do blow up with the damaging winds and the large hail.

This is the risk for today. T level four out of five moderate risks there in the red, where we could find a strong tornadoes, tennis ball sized hail, damaging wind, the wording just incredibly strong. In this kind of hatched red area here from Tulsa to Oklahoma City to Wichita Falls, that's where we could find tornadoes in excess of EF-3 or greater. That is incredibly strong. That is severe. That's like some of the damage we saw yesterday with winds over 130 miles per hour. So again, these are very intense storms.

Another new updates since we were with you last hour is we now have a high excessive rain risk also for parts of Oklahoma, just east there of Oklahoma City. This is another thing that is very rare. It's only issued four percent of the time, but it's responsible for 40 percent of our flood related deaths, 80 percent of our flood related damages. So a lot of hazards here. And again, this is just an incredibly rare in an incredibly serious situation.

WHITFIELD: Yes, is unbelievable. All right, Elisa Raffa, thank you so much, Lucy Kafanov as well.

All right, for more now on the impact in Nebraska, I'm joined by Omaha Police Chief Todd Schmaderer. Chief, great to see you. So what has your department been through so far in this aftermath?

CHIEF TODD SCHMADERER, OMAHA POLICE: I'll tell you what, it's been a long day, but we're very happy with the way things turned out in Omaha. Omaha metropolitan areas, over 1 million population, and we had some severe tornadoes hit us in numerous spots. And that the damage has been immense, but the amazing part of but is no one has been seriously injured. Nobody has been killed. Our warning systems here in Omaha and Douglas County really worked to perfection. And so we had a good warning and everybody got to shelter.

WHITFIELD: I mean, what a monster twister that we're seeing right now. It is miraculous no fatalities, no injuries, which is what you just said.

Now, what about individuals trapped? We heard from other folks who had gone to their basements, and some to emerge to see just all the debris on top, listening to the destruction as it was happening. What are the efforts like to look for anyone who may be trapped?

SCHMADERER: We spent almost the entire night trying to go house by house, because the houses were leveled. We had to be sure nobody was trapped underneath there. And we feel we've hit every house up to this point, and we have yet to come up with anything that has concerned us. We haven't found anybody trapped or deceased as of this point. We still have some areas that we're trying to unturn, and were going to get to that.

We're also looking at potentially another storm here that's going to hit Omaha again tonight. So that may delay some of our cleanup and our rescue efforts.

WHITFIELD: How do you prepare for the next storm?

SCHMADERER: Well, we have our infrastructure in place. We've called in extra officers from yesterday to work on things and we have some people on standby working very closely with our partners. And of course, the Omaha Fire Department has been tremendous in all this. So if we get another wave, we will be prepared. I'm hoping that we can get out of this -- a ton of cleanup, a lot of displaced families and a lot of cleanup, and a lot of things we need to do an Omaha to get us back up and running to full speed.

[14:10:00]

WHITFIELD: We're hearing a lot from people who survived all of this talk about neighbors helping neighbors. How can people stay safe? Because after disasters like this, there are nails, there are shredded pieces of plywood. There are a lot of dangerous twisted metal in debris sites like this. What are you telling people as they tried to help one another?

SCHMADERER: Right. Right now, we don't have any volunteer efforts going on. We're not coordinating any. We think it's just safer to let the professional entities go in right now because of the downed power lines, because of the dangerous hazards that you just mentioned.

Now, as far as what can everybody do for this next wave, everything that took place the first time, talking with you neighbors, getting to know them. A lot of people would tell me stories about being out on their street, watching the storm from a distance and then listening to the radio. And as it got closer, they all ran to their basements.

Be in communication with your neighbors. They're your first line of defense and you are theirs, and we've learned that and Omaha to a high level, not only with this, but some things in the past that we've had. And I think that can be replicated to other cities. Your neighbors are your first line of defense, and you are theirs as well.

WHITFIELD: All right, Omaha Police Chief Todd Schmaderer, thank you so much. All the best on your continued efforts.

SCHMADERER: Thank you very much. All the best to you as well.

WHITFIELD: Thank you.

And this just in, we're getting word of more arrests as pro- Palestinian protests consume college campuses across the country. Police in Arizona State say they arrested 69 people for trespassing. According to the school, most of the people were not ASU students, faculty, or staff, and had created an unauthorized encampment.

And new developments also at Northeastern University in Boston. School officials say all campus operations have now returned to normal. This morning, police detained about 100 people protesting to end the war in Gaza. And in a statement, a Northeastern official said they believe to professional organizers had joined the ranks of student protesters there.

In Washington D.C., Protests are remaining peaceful at George Washington University. Demonstrators are blocking a street as they camp out on campus, and police remain in the area. We'll keep monitoring the events.

Let's go now to CNN's Rafael Romo live from Emory University in Atlanta. Rafael, we saw police arrest protesters there earlier in the week. What's happening there today?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: It's a very different situation today, Fredricka. More than protesters, we've seen many students here at Emory University wearing their caps and gowns. Commencement ceremonies are still at least a couple of weeks away for most graduating students, but many are already taking their pictures on this beautiful spring day.

It's a sharp contrast with the violent arrests that happened here on campus on Thursday when police from three different agencies descended on this location. The decision to call police is being strongly criticized by many students, Fred, and some faculty here at Emory University. One of those faculty members is Noelle McAfee, professor and chair of the Philosophy Department here at Emory University. She was one of those arrested during the chaos on Thursday. Let's take a listen of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOELLE MCAFEE, PROFESSOR AND CHAIR OF THE PHILOSOPHY DEPARTMENT, EMORY UNIVERSITY: The real problem here is that the administration called the Atlanta police. They cannot come to campus without an invitation, as far as I know. They were invited to campus. They did their job, which was to hall away all the demonstrators and clear off the campus of all the signs of protests. But they shouldn't have been doing that job because the president should not have called them to come do that job. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: An Emory University, President Gregory Fenves issued a statement the day after the clashes. Fenves said that it is OK for students to voice their opinions and to protest. "However, he said, we will not tolerate vandalism, violence, or any attempt to disrupt our campus through the construction of encampments. These actions are counter to our values, and they disrupt the core purpose of the university and its educational and research missions."

We just had somebody just drop by us yelling "Free Palestine!"

And also, Fred, we took a look earlier at the university quad, and it was empty. But you can still see messages written with chalk on sidewalks saying things like, well, we just heard a "Long Live Palestine," and "Ceasefire Now." Fredricka, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, Rafael Romo at Emory University, thanks so much.

All right, still to come, jurors are enjoying a three-day weekend after the first full week of testimony in Donald Trump's hush money trial. What said about the inner workings of the Trump Organization.

And armed teachers at elementary schools?

[14:15:00]

The new bill that Tennessee's governor just signed into law. Stay with us.

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WHITFIELD: The first week of former President Trump's criminal hush money trial saw three key witnesses testify. Former tabloid publisher and longtime Trump friend David Pecker wrapped up more than 10 hours of testimony. Jurors also heard from Trump's former longtime personal assistant Rhona Graff, as well as Michael Cohen's banker, who arranged his home equity line of credit, which Cohen used to pay Stormy Daniels $130,000 in hush money.

[14:20:11]

WHITFIELD: CNN's Paula Reid has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: So we have another day of court in a freezing courthouse. It's very cold in there.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Former President Donald Trump is still not warming up to the reality of being on trial in the New York hush money case. Today in court, David Pecker, the former publisher of "The National Enquirer," was back on the witness stand, tying Pecker's non-prosecution agreement with federal prosecutors to an agreement he made to sell "The National Enquirer," a deal contingent on the investigation into his company being resolved. From a timing standpoint, it would have added onto the stress of the transaction, Pecker testified.

They also tried to show how Pecker had other reasons since beyond just helping Trump win the White House for running negative stories about Trump's opponents. Pecker testified that his magazine ran stories about Bill and Hillary Clinton prior to the 2015 Trump Tower meeting where an agreement to help Trump was allegedly breached. Running those stories was beneficial to AMI, Pecker testified.

After his testimony wrapped up, prosecutors used the last few hours of the day to call two additional witnesses. The first was Trump's longtime assistant.

TRUMP: Rhona, let me have the calls, please.

REID: Rhona Graff was a fixture in Trump's office for decades. She testified how before Trump became president she was his gatekeeper, keeping close track of his contacts, emails, phone calls, and meetings. She told the jury it was a very stimulating, exciting, fascinating place to be.

Court is not in session on Monday, but the trial will resume on Tuesday, likely wrapping up a banking associate who work closely with Michael Cohen to build the shell company that he used to pay Stormy Daniels. And then it's unclear who the prosecutions and next big witness will be.

Paula Reid, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: Joining me right now to talk more about this trial is Jeff Swartz. He has a former judge in Florida and a law professor at the Tampa campus for the Thomas M. Cooley Law School. Great to see you again, Judge.

JEFF SWARTZ, PROFESSOR, THOMAS M. COOLEY LAW SCHOOL'S TAMPA BAY CAMPUS: Thank you, Fred. It's nice to see you, too.

WHITFIELD: Great. So how do you assess the impact of the testimony from David Pecker, the first witness who took the stand for four days this week in the trial?

SWARTZ: I think David Pecker was an outstanding choice for the first witness. He set the stage and he set the whole scheme up for the jury. And he was really very good on cross-examination. I don't think that he actually got impeached in any really serious way. I think that people are going to look at his testimony and start building around it. I think the jury paid attention to him. From all accounts they paid very close attention to him. And I think he was incredibly credible. And I think that that really went along way for the prosecution.

WHITFIELD: But during cross-examination of Pecker, Trump's attorneys did try to punch holes in his credibility. Were they at all successful at that? SWARTZ: Very little. That one exchange that we just heard about where

he said, yes, I did things about Hillary and Bill Clinton before 2015. Their problems were in fact good for business for AMI. But when it got really intense, when it was really down to Trump and Hillary who were running for president, things got really intense at AMI, and they ran a lot of stories beyond what they used to run. I think that that became pretty clear, too, that this was part of what needed to be done to help the campaign.

WHITFIELD: And then what do prosecutors need to do next as a try to make the case to the jury that Trump falsified business records to cover up the hush money payment?

SWARTZ: Well, they've started working on that. They started by bringing in a records keeper, a banker who is now going to present records involving Michael Cohen and the way money came in and the way money went out, and the loans that were taken. They brought in Rhona, and she did more than just testify for the prosecution and set the stage again for the visits from Mr. Pecker, from Michael Cohen, his access to the former president. She was in fact the gatekeeper. You didn't get in, you didn't get to talk to Donald Trump unless she went through Rhona. And that's really important, and that's what her testimony was set to bring out.

I think the next step that they're going to have to do is they're going to have to start dealing with more of the records to help with Michael Cohen. And I think that they're also going to start bringing in other people who worked basically on the campaign to set this stage again for what Mr. Trump's attitude was and his anger that he exhibited, and his fear of things coming out as it related to the campaign and the discussions that took place relating to the campaign.

[14:25:15]

That sets the stage for Michael Cohen to finish it off.

WHITFIELD: OK. And the former president is saying that he'll testify in the hush money trial, quote, "if it's necessary." Do you think -- I know it's laughable, isn't it. Who believes that, really?

SWARTZ: I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that, but I can't help it.

WHITFIELD: That's OK.

SWARTZ: I've been around too long.

WHITFIELD: I think people are rather skeptical of him saying that, because clearly his attorneys would not want him to testify, right?

SWARTZ: No. No, there's not one defense attorney in the world who would want him to testify. He's a loose cannon. He can't hold his temper. He will say things that he shouldn't say. He thinks he can talk his way out of trouble. My experience as a defense attorney, my experience as a judge is I have never seen a defendant talk their way out of trouble. That includes lawyers that have tried to talk their way out of trouble. He can't do this. And if he does, it will be against every single lawyer that's ever advised him.

WHITFIELD: All right. Judge Jeff Swartz, good to see you. Thanks so much.

SWARTZ: Have a nice day.

WHITFIELD: You, too.

All right, coming up, pro-Palestinian protests escalating on college campuses around the country. So how should schools respond to the growing tensions? We'll discuss next.

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[14:30:56]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Across the country, college campuses are cracking down amid a torrent of pro-Palestinian protests. Earlier this week, police in Los Angeles say they arrested nearly 100 protesters gathered on the campus of the University of Southern California.

I'm joined now by Associate Professor of Communication and Journalism at USC, Mike Ananny. Mike, you wrote an open letter to USC's president saying you no longer trust her. Why?

MIKE ANANNY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF COMMUNICATION AND JOURNALISM, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: True, yes. Over the last couple of weeks, I think we've seen the administration of the University of Southern California really just fill us in multiple ways. I mean, it started with it was an invitation extended to Asna Tabassum, who is an amazing scholar, a young scholar who minored in resistance to genocide. And the university invited her to give a valedictory address. And then it rescinded that invitation. And it rescinded that invitation without clear communication. It made sort of vague claims about safety. It did not involve faculty or anybody else in short of taking measures to try to protect her speech. So it canceled her, and it didn't do that in a very, very good way.

But then it escalated from there. Then people were upset, they were unhappy, they protested. And it sort of culminated in this moment on Wednesday, especially, when peaceful protesters were at the university expressing their speech rights and doing all the things that we ask our students to do, which is to think critically, think in ways that can change situations and change the world. We train them to do all of these things. We want them to be engaged and passionate citizens who are taking care of their world.

And then the university invited the LAPD in to escalate the situation, to turn the campus into this, honestly, very militarized zone. And we saw the aftermath of that in terms of students being arrested, faculty being arrested, people being injured. There was a rubber bullet that was fired at students, students of mine, or even student journalists displaying press badges. We just saw an escalation by the university. They did not de-escalate the situation. They did not figure out how to take an uncomfortable moment and turn it into a teachable moment. So I think we failed.

WHITFIELD: So in addition to the Muslim valedictorian and her speech being canceled, now there will be no in-person commencement ceremony there on the University of Southern California campus. And this is the same student body that missed out on a lot during COVID, right? I mean, many graduated from high school, didn't get to have prom, didn't have person to person contact, didn't get an opportunity to walk. And now for another reason, they're not getting the opportunity to walk.

And you mentioned how this really could have been a teachable moment. So how does campus, I guess, strike a balance of promoting and ensuring safety to everyone, yet at the same time, encouraging civil discourse, a place where students, faculty, staff, can speak their mind and do so by making sure that everyone feels safe about it. How do you make this a teachable -- how should this have been made a more teachable moment in your view?

ANANNY: Absolutely. Honestly, the one big thing I would say is rely on the students and the faculty that you have trusted over the years, that you have told are these incredible communicators and critical thinkers.

I spent most of yesterday afternoon at the protests at USC, and I spoke with faculty. I spoke with students. And I've got to say, I was overwhelmed and heartened by the sophistication, the care, the gentleness, the creativity of the people that I spoke with there who were very aware that these are not easy conversations to have. There is no simple, easy answer to do -- to take here.

[14:35:00]

But this is a moment when you pause. You speak precisely. You listen generously. You trust in the community and the culture that you've built. And there will be uncomfortable moments. There will be moments when people don't feel like they belong. That is going to happen. But that is a very, very different context than moments that you invite the LAPD to campus and that actually create violence. So I would say the university needs to trust its students, trust its faculty to do the work that we know how to do. We know how to have these conversations. Let us have them.

WHITFIELD: In a statement about the cancelations, the university president Carol Folt said, I'm quoting now, "This week Alumni Park became unsafe. No one wants to have people arrested on their campus ever. But when longstanding safety policies are flagrantly violated, buildings vandalized, DPS directives repeatedly ignored, threatening language shouted, people assaulted, and access to critical academic buildings blocked, we must act immediately to protect our community." So that is the statement coming from the president. This had to be very difficult decision for her to make. Has she said anything about your open letter or your feeling about not being able to trust the school president?

ANANNY: I've received no reply from the school president or the provost to the letter, and honestly, I don't expect one necessarily.

And I would also sincerely dispute her representation of the events that happened and on campus. We have many eyewitness accounts.

WHITFIELD: What part?

ANANNY: The sense that there was -- the campus was an unsafe environment or that it was a place that needed to be militarized and needed to have the LAPD called out in riot gear with non-lethal weapons, with zip ties. That was a massive overreach. So I think that her characterization of the situation does not match the response that her administration took.

We have multiple faculty, multiple students, multiple news organizations, including our student journalists, "The L.A. Times," many people characterized that situation not in the same way that she did. And I think we have to be very careful in this moment not to accept the university leadership's characterization, because there's a real danger of the narrative of this being taken away and being sort of misrepresented.

And I want to be crystal clear, yes, there were absolutely moments that I'm sure were debatable, uncomfortable, that were not OK in the way that you would want a university to operate regularly. I do not condone violence in the slightest. But I would say that the university's response to it actually exacerbated the problem. It escalated the problem. It made the problem worse. And that's what I would say is that real big failure here.

WHITFIELD: All right, Mike Ananny, Associate Professor of Communications and Journalism at USC, thank you so much for your time and candor and being with us today.

ANANNY: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Coming up, could President Biden the former president Donald Trump finally be inching closer to the debate stage?

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[14:42:57]

WHITFIELD: All right, school teachers in Tennessee are now allowed to carry guns in the classroom. The state's governor signed the legislation into law Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BILL LEE, (R) TENNESSEE: I think we need to be really clear about what this law does. You're right, districts have the option to choose. What's important to me is that we give districts tools and the option to use a tool that will keep their children safe in their school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Educators seeking to bring a handgun on campus will be required to complete a background check and undergo hours of training. The new law comes more than a year after a tutor opened fire and killed six people at the Covenant school in Nashville. President Biden now says he's happy to debate Donald Trump ahead of

this year's election. It's the first time Biden has said so explicitly in this campaign. Earlier, he told reporters any possible plans for debate would depend on Trump's behavior. Biden's latest comments came in a wide-ranging surprise interview with shock jock Howard Stern.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I don't know if you're going to debate your opponent.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am somewhere. I don't know when. I'm happy to debate him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joining us now from the White House. Priscilla, what can you tell us about this debate shift for the president?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, Fred, this is certainly the most robust commitment we've seen up until this point from President Biden and his willingness to debate his Republican rival, Donald Trump. Up until this point, the president had conditioned whether or not he would take his Republican rival on, on the debate stage on the former president's behavior. But he's explicitly saying here in this interview that you see that he's willing to do it.

Now, of course, this comes as Republicans have turned up the volume on there being a debate, the Trump team that sees it as a benefit for the former president to get on the debate stage. They're eager to do that. And the Biden camp has seen, or at least saw, the 2020 debate between the two candidates, then candidate Biden, as ultimately positive for him.

[14:45:05]

Now, of course, there is general consensus among strategists that even amid waning enthusiasm about each of these candidates and viewership, that there is still interest, and there's beneficial for voters to see the two candidates onstage debating each other. But of course, when and if this happens are still the outstanding questions here. But we are now getting the most explicit commitment from President Biden that he would be willing to get on that debate stage with former president Donald Trump.

WHITFIELD: All right, Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much at the White House.

We'll be right back.

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[14:50:19]

WHITFIELD: All right, this week's all new episode of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper," CNN correspondent Donie O'Sullivan looks at how conspiracy theories and online misinformation are affecting this year's presidential campaign, including the rise of Christian nationalism in politics. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN LIGHTFOOT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: The job of the journalist is to ask the questions, allow the person to speak, and just freeport the facts, what was spoken. Would you like for me to pull up the definition of "journalist"?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN REPORTER: That's OK. But thank you, Julian.

LIGHTFOOT: OK. I have a God-given right to speak my own truth.

O'SULLIVAN: But there are facts, right?

LIGHTFOOT: The facts have shown that the election was stolen. Whether you're willing to look at that and accept that and really show what's going on, that's your issue, not ours. We want the God-given freedom that our Constitution and our Bill of Rights is based on.

O'SULLIVAN: God-given constitutional rights?

LIGHTFOOT: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: They are two different things, right?

LIGHTFOOT: No, sir, they're not. Read, r-e-a-d, the Constitution, read it out loud to yourself so that you hear what the words of the Constitution say.

O'SULLIVAN: God isn't mentioned in the Constitution.

LIGHTFOOT: Sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: OK, joining us right now to talk more about this, Donie O'Sullivan. Was she about to bring out the copy of her Constitution?

O'SULLIVAN: She was about to pull out her phone, as did I.

WHITFIELD: OK.

O'SULLIVAN: As did I, we both looked up the Constitution and Bill of Rights together. There is no mention of God. It says, at one point it says in the year of our lord, just to specify the date. But really what that gets into is this idea, and we've spoken to a lot of Christian pastors across the country that are really worried about this, right? There's this idea among some Trump supporters, something that is being called Christian nationalism -- not necessarily to say that that lady there would identify as such. But this idea that Christianity in the United States has supremacy over other religions, which of course, is not the case. There's freedom of religion in this country, right. But what we're seeing is this strand within the MAGA movement that Christianity should take this supreme role in the United States, and that Trump is very much the person to achieve that. So that's kind of one part of this stuff that we're looking at. And we're speaking to pastors who are very concerned about this.

And then when it comes to the misinformation part of this, which you heard that lady falsely say that she believes the 2020 election was stolen, what we've really seen is that by convincing so many millions of Americans, I think something like a third of all Americans don't believe Biden was legitimately elected, it really opens up the floodgates to this sort of alternate reality where everything else is possible. So many other things that seem crazy seem plausible. So we also kind of dive deep into that. Taylor Swift Super Bowl conspiracy theory that you might remember, we look at a bit at the genesis of that and how that became so popular.

So in your conversations with people, did get the impression that they're really unwilling to budge if they are attaching themselves to these alternate facts, misinformation, conspiracy theories. I mean, it just seems nothing or no one can penetrate that.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes. And look, I think a lot of what we try and do in our hour tomorrow night is to talk to people and to hear them out. I don't think you're going to achieve -- you're not going to change anybody's mind without talking to them in the first place, right. And you're not going to change anybody's mind in telling them that they're stupid.

And so, really, we're trying to get at why are people buying into all of this stuff? Because a lot of the folks we meet, they are very productive members of society. They have families, they have jobs, they're active in their community. But it comes to QAnon or election denialism or whatever else, they just kind of go off in this tangent. And really, I think it's going to be the story of the 2024 election campaign and beyond. It's Americans are living in, for the most part, two very different realities right now.

[14:55:08]

WHITFIELD: All right, Donie O'Sullivan, look forward to it. Thank you so much.

And be sure to tune in to an all new episode of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper," one whole hour, one whole story, airing tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific only on CNN.

And we're tracking a severe weather threat for 55 million people after tornadoes spawned storms and devastated communities across Nebraska and Iowa. Where those dangerous storms are heading next.

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