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Heavy Police Presence In University Of Virginia; Trump Goes From NYC Courtroom To Florida Fundraiser; U.S. And Israeli Officials Finalizing Ceasefire Deal In Cairo; Nearly Two Feet Of Rain Soaks Texas, With More Expected; Hope Hicks Testifies On Trump's Reaction To "Access Hollywood" Tape; Universities Increase Security Ahead Of Graduation Ceremonies Following Weeks Of Pro-Palestinian Protests. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 04, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: A play on what Han Solo told Luke Skywalker in "Star Wars" as you saw right there. Luke Skywalker himself, Mark Hamill, he took a few minutes yesterday to talk to reporters in fact at the White House after meeting President Biden inside the Oval Office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK HAMILL, ACTOR: How many of you have Mark Hamill will lead the press briefing on your bingo card? Hands? You know, I call him Mr. President. He said, you can call me Joe and I said, can I call you Jobi-Wan Kenobi? He liked that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And we liked that moment. That was very cool.

All right. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The "CNN NEWSROOM" with Jessica Dean starts right now.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington, and we begin with breaking news.

Police at the University of Virginia just broke up a pro-Palestinian encampment after declaring it and unlawful assembly.

CNN's Polo Sandoval joining us now.

Polo, what's the latest on this?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Jessica, what we're witnessing right now play out in Charlottesville, Virginia, on the University of Virginia campus, is really just the latest example of tensions rising on American university campus control room. We may or may not have some pictures I believe of what has transpired over the last hour or so.

Just to set the scene for our viewers here as we hopefully queue up some images for you so you could see yourself what's played out. Over the course of several days, we have seen pro-Palestinian demonstrators on the UVA campus assembling there for several days, although they were really maintaining more of a picnic like environment. And I say that because they weren't any clear indications that they were using tents.

The university had made clear that is not something they wanted to see up. If not, that would be considered a violation of the university policy. And that would then prompt a response from the university. More recently, at least in the last 24 hours, as you can see in these pictures here, we began to see some of those signs of an actual encampment, including tents, and that, according to what we've heard from officials, is likely what triggered this police response just in the last couple of hours.

So what you had recently is virtually a standoff between law enforcement and some protesters. Now, to be clear, there's indication that some of the people that are seen in that video are really more spectators than protesters but you do see people clapping and chanting in solidarity with the participants of that encampment.

The UVA went ahead and declared an unlawful assembly only moments ago, specifically in the area that's known there as the rotunda and chapel area. That's where we believe these pictures are coming out of. And so officials are asking people at that location to disperse, and also asking other folks on campus to simply avoid this area. And this comes after some talks that were ongoing between members of that encampment and UVA, which is, Jessica, really just a carbon copy of what we've seen at other campuses which are these negotiations, these talks take place between some of these demonstrators and the university. The big item that continues to be a top demand really is divestment -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Polo Sandoval for us with the latest from Charlottesville, Virginia. We'll continue to keep an eye on that. Thanks, Polo.

Also today, a change of scenery for former president Donald Trump, trading in the New York courtroom he's been sitting in for the last week for the banquet halls of Mar-a-Lago. He's said to be the main attraction at a fundraiser for the Republican National Committee's spring retreat. Wealthy GOP donors and high-profile Republican leaders will be there, including some people who very much like to be his vice president.

CNN's Alayna Treene is live in Palm Beach for us with more on today's big event.

And Alayna, this is really the center of the Republican universe right now.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. You're totally right, Jess. A lot of people, including wealthy donors, high-profile Republican leaders, and even the former president himself have been gathered in Palm Beach this weekend for both of the RNC weekend retreat, but also Donald Trump held a fundraiser at his Mar-a-Lago club today. Now I did just get some new details that I want to share with you

about some of the conversations that are happening behind closed doors at the Four Seasons. And that includes this morning, Chris Lacivita and Susie Wiles, both co-campaign managers of the Trump campaign, as well as Tony Fabrizio, one of Donald Trump's a leading pollsters, gave a presentation to the members who are gathered here this weekend and essentially they walked through the fundraising numbers that they had raised in April and that includes $76.2 million that they had raised last month.

Of course, we will not be able to see and verify those numbers until the FEC report comes out, filings come out later this month, but multiple attendees tell me that they walked them through those numbers. Another big news nugget that we got is that they walk through how they also have plans to expand the map in Donald Trump's favor in both Minnesota and in Virginia, two traditionally more Democratic leaning states.

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And they made the case for why they think they can be very aggressive in some of those states. So we're learning a lot from that. And look, you're totally right. You mentioned that some of the special guests this weekend include a number of people who are on Donald Trump's shortlist to become vice president.

Now some of those people include Ohio Senator J.D. Vance. They're going to be doing a fundraiser, Donald Trump and Vance, in Ohio later this month where they will appear together. Doug Burgum, the former or, excuse me, the North Dakota governor, is also in attendance as is Senator Tim Scott. All people again that we know have been on Donald Trump's potential list for vice presidential picks.

However, Jessica, I do want to just make very clear here that Donald Trump is still far away from deciding who that is going to be. When I speak with Donald Trump's team, they tell me that that decision will likely be made public closer to the Republican National Convention in July -- Jess.

DEAN: All right. Alayna Treene for us in Florida, thanks so much.

And joining us now is CNN senior political commentator and former Republican congressman of Illinois, Adam Kinzinger.

It's great to see you. We're just hearing from our colleague there Alayna Treene about everything that's going on around Mar-a-Lago right now. It is clear that as Trump continues to spend his weeks in this courtroom in Manhattan, he also continues to be the center of the Republican universe.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, he does. I mean, it's always interesting after these events to see the pictures that come out of Mar-a-Lago. It's really become like a weird kind of Hollywood for kind of certain people, which is unique. I don't know. I just -- politics to me never fell Hollywood, but it does to some people. The interesting thing is this vice president race. I mean, let's talk about who's not there. Kristi Noem, after admitting

to shooting her dog in the face, somehow thinking that that was going to help her in those VP stakes. As far as I know, she's not there. Maybe she is, but she is certainly out of the running for vice president I think because even Donald Trump would have a problem with that. And so it'll be interesting to see all that.

But I'm going to tell you what's going to happen is Donald Trump will spin as much time as he can trying to get these potential VP candidates to try to do more, I don't know, kissing up to Donald Trump, we'll say, so he can extract just as much juice from the turn up as he can before he has to pick a vice president.

DEAN: Right. And that is going to play out, to your point, in the next several months as we get closer to the convention and we'll see how that goes. It reminds everyone a little bit of the "Apprentice," does it not, as he has them all -- and see how they all perform.

Alayna also talking about House Speaker Mike Johnson at an RNC event yesterday in the midst of this threat to be ousted by Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, and we've seen Mike Johnson who wasn't particularly close with Trump in the way that, say, Marjorie Taylor Greene is, really try to develop a relationship with him and Trump has said, you know, he's trying to do his job.

Do you think that he can save his speakership by kind of triangulating in this way?

KINZINGER: I mean, sure, yes. Donald Trump is going to support Mike Johnson. Mike Johnson won't go anywhere. I have very -- like personally I have very mixed feelings about this because I would love to see Marjorie Taylor Greene get basically ousted from the GOP which I think she's on the edge of doing. I mean I think there's enough people that have had enough of her antics. But in that process what we have to be careful of is, and this is just my opinion, to normalize Trump and to somehow say that Trump is the normal part of the GOP.

I mean this the guy that still tried to overthrow the will of the people last election, has basically made it clear he wants mass deportations and doesn't consider anybody citizens. I mean this is a mess. So -- but if you can at least take out Marjorie Taylor Greene, Mike Johnson did the right thing by putting Ukraine aid on the floor and so that's a good thing, and I think as long as he has Donald Trump supporting him, he's not going to go anywhere.

There'll be a few people that obviously turn against Johnson and somehow think they can raise a bunch of money by doing that like Marjorie Taylor Greene does, but I think he'll survive.

DEAN: And you mentioned that Trump would -- has said he wants to conduct mass deportations. He gave this interview to "TIME" magazine that came out this week and he really was quite clear laying out a lot of his plans for what he would like a second term to look like and there are some of the things that he said. Using the military to conduct mass deportations of migrants, firing civil servants that he calls bad, pardoning the January 6th rioters, saying states should decide whether to prosecute women who've had an abortion or even monitor women's pregnancies to identify those who've had the procedure.

But, you know, Adam, yet we look at the polls and roughly half of America supports him right now, and so I hear what you're saying, don't normalize him, but half of America is supporting him and will support him?

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KINZINGER: Yes, it's a reality. I mean, look, every authoritarian movement that has come to power comes to power on the back of either a bad economy or convincing people that there's a bad economy or on the back of crime or convincing people there's a problem with crime. So this year we've had actually a record of decrease in crime but Donald Trump is running on this idea that crime is skyrocketing because when people usually give up their freedoms is when they fear on those Maslow's hierarchy of needs for just basic safety.

And so yes, half of the country is normalizing him. Some of that, the Democrats have to be aware of. They have ignored the border issues or it seems that way. Even if they can come and say they haven't it seems that way. They should be attacking Donald Trump daily on the fact that he made Republicans walk away from the table on this border deal. But I don't understand kind of why that message isn't out there and it's resonating with Republicans or people that would lean Republican.

I'm not sure that Donald Trump wins. I mean I think it's still 50-50 but I think it's way too close. This is just my opinion. It's far too close than it should be especially given that he's just openly talking about his authoritarianisms.

DEAN: Yes. And so if I'm understanding you right, it sounds like what you're saying is that it really is that he is really capitalizing on these fears that some people may have out there, and really doing, it sounds like, a good job of being able to convince them that that they're in danger in some way.

KINZINGER: Yes. He's definitely doing a good enough job to keep himself at about 50 percent in the polls. Look, I mean the Democrats have some stuff they can talk about. They should though be much more forward-leaning on the border. I don't understand why there's this hesitancy to talk about it. Like I'm pro-immigration. I'm very pro- immigration, but also as a Guardsman, I worked at the border and I can tell you there's a real problem down there.

I think if they lean forward on that, they're probably not going to win on the issue of immigration but certainly blunt some of Donald Trump's. Now you don't have to necessarily run for election fighting on Donald Trump's terms, but I think when we see the American people have a concern about something you do need to fight on their terms and so he -- look, he's a demagogue. Demagoguery works and you've just got to push back against it.

DEAN: And another thing that we heard him say in an interview this week, this was with the "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel," he said he'd accept the election results if, quote, "everything's honest," and then he went on to say he expects it will be and will be, quote, "he'll maybe win maybe very big."

You sat on the January 6th Committee. You've seen this all play out. What do you make of those comments and people out there, he's just saying that?

KINZINGER: Yes. Well, look, I mean, before January -- actually before the election of 2020 remember he said, he said, yes, I'll accept the results of the election if I win, and everybody laughed, Donald Trump, he's being funny. He actually meant that, like that's what he said. If he didn't win and so he didn't accept the results of the election, so that's what we have to take very seriously as again you can as he's doing with the crime issue, for instance, where he's saying crime is out of control and rising.

It is out of control in certain areas, but macro it's gone down. He can point the things and convince people as he did in 2020 that an election is stolen even against all odds, even against all court cases, what, 64 court cases that rejected him. But all you got to do is convince people and he's pretty good at convincing people of some of that. So don't -- take what Donald Trump -- people said usually, you know, like don't take him literally but take him seriously.

No, take him literally and take him seriously because he does telegraph what he is going to do and I think he's telegraphing this that he expects to win Wisconsin and if he doesn't he'll basically say, well, it's probably stolen again.

DEAN: Yes, and he's saying all these things pretty clearly.

All right, Adam Kinzinger, it's good to see. Thanks so much for stopping by.

KINZINGER: You too. You bet.

DEAN: Urgent ceasefire talks happening right now in Egypt with negotiators saying it could take days to finalize any kind of agreement. This as the humanitarian crisis in Gaza continues to worsen. Plus evacuations underway in Texas after days of record- breaking flooding that has swept away homes and cars, and now even more rain on the way.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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DEAN: Right now negotiators are in Cairo for talks on a possible ceasefire and hostage deal between Israel and Hamas. But U.S. and Israeli officials say any potential agreement could lead to more negotiations over logistics.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is covering this for us right now, and Kevin, the Biden administration really wants to see this done. KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

DEAN: But there are a lot of parts at play here.

LIPTAK: Yes, and they do have some cautious optimism that these talks in Cairo are heading in the right direction and we did see that Hamas delegation arrive there this morning. They said they arrived with a positive spirit so things do seem to be advancing in the right direction. And American officials have said that this is a generous deal. Israel has sort of agreed to a number of items that they had agreed to previously, and I think the big sticking point, the big hang up right now is whether this deal will eventually lead to an end of this war. That has been sort of a bottom line for Hamas.

[16:20:03]

Israel has said that it still needs to keep going after Hamas in Gaza. And so that seems to be the knot that they're trying to untie in Cairo right now.

Now we did hear last night from the American Secretary of State Antony Blinken talking about this arrangement. Listen to a little bit of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We await to see whether in effect they could take yes for an answer on the ceasefire and release of hostages. And the reality in this moment, the only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a ceasefire is Hamas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now what we've heard from American and Israeli officials today is that even if Hamas does agree to this framework, that's not necessarily the end of the road. There still will be some finer details that they have to negotiate.

I think the real fear among American officials now is that if this all falls apart, that Israel will launch that invasion into Rafah. That has been something that is at the top of mind for American officials. They have said that in order to do that they need to see a credible plan from Israel to protect the civilians that are sheltering there. They haven't seen that yet.

And what you've heard from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is that he will go into Rafah with or without a deal. So that's sort of the big facet that's looming over all of this at this point.

DEAN: Right. Right. And we'll just see how this unfolds because, as you say, even if they get to yes now and they've got to get to -- there's a lot more details to work out.

All right. Kevin, you'll keep an eye on it. Thanks so much.

And joining us now is former Defense secretary under President Donald Trump, Mark Esper. He's now a CNN global affairs analyst.

Secretary Esper, thanks so much for being here with us. What are you hoping to see from these talks in Cairo? Kevin just laid out kind of some of the sticking points. They've been sticking points throughout this process. But what might make this different?

MARK ESPER, NN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, look, I think we all hope that there is an agreement going forward that would allow for the release of the hostages, and I am here in Arizona with the McCain Institute where Secretary of State Tony Blinken spoke last night and he said very clearly the ball is in Hamas' court right now and they stand between the -- you know, a deal or no deal.

However, I'm not sanguine about a deal. I think that the Hamas will not give any ground until they have 100 percent confidence that this will lead to a permanent ceasefire and the removal of Israeli troops from Gaza. Otherwise, they give up all their -- all of their leverage, Jessica, and that will expose them to the IDF coming in and finishing off Rafah once and for all.

DEAN: And do you get the sense at all that that's something that Israel would be willing to accept?

ESPER: No, not at all. I mean, the Israeli population is telling Bibi Netanyahu and his government, his war cabinet, at least two things. One is they want the immediate release of hostages, and two, they want Hamas destroyed. Now that second part hasn't been defined. I mean, generally we could say it would be, you know, knocking out the remaining four battalions of militants that are in Rafah, taking out the leadership which includes Yahya Sinwar, the military leader in Gaza, and then, you know, getting rid of the underground infrastructure of the tunnels as best as possible.

So, if not, if they don't do those things, then Hamas is going to come out as declaring victory and we'll be right back to where we were seven months ago in many ways with Hamas in charge declaring victory, it will look like, you know, in the street in Gaza, in the West Bank and look like a victory for Hamas as well, which is not going to help the Palestinian Authority.

So it's very complicated, but I think Netanyahu is signaling very clearly one way or another they are going in and Hamas is listening to that saying, why should we sign a deal unless it includes 100 percent agreement that they won't come in.

DEAN: Yes. So let's talk a little bit more about that potential ground incursion in Rafah. You laid out that the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said we're going in with or without a hostage deal, and we know that this White House, that the Biden administration has said over and over again, we want to see a plan from Israel on how they're going to evacuate citizens from Rafah ahead of any sort of invasion there.

And one source has now told CNN that this information that Israel has given them some information, but at this point, they don't think it's enough to allow the administration to determine whether or not this is an executable and acceptable plan. What do you make of all of this? And do you think Israel might potentially move ahead without U.S. approval?

ESPER: Well, you're right, some of the reporting out there is that the United States has been briefed on a plan, but there's some doubt as to how credible it is and whether it is really executable. I mean, you're talking about moving 1.31 million, 1.2 million people out of Rafah, moving them around, getting them out of the routes of advance of the Israelis as they try and sweep through Rafah. So it's going to be very difficult. And I think, you know, at this point, Netanyahu, his government probably feels that they've provided the Americans what they need.

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They'll probably keep updating them. But again, I don't think that's going to delay the invasion of Rafah if Netanyahu thinks he needs to do that. He's not going to seek for -- seek Joe Biden's approval. He's going to do what he thinks he needs to do to finish off Hamas and to meet the demands of the Israeli people.

DEAN: And if he moves forward in that way, what kind of implications do you think that has kind of moving forward, both with their relationship with America, but also globally?

ESPER: Yes, it's going to be tough because an operation of that size in a city of that size, and how many people there is, inevitably going to be more loss of civilian life which is going to be tragic and that's going to weigh them down.

But it's going to take weeks and weeks, Jessica, for this operation to conclude and you've got to look at the political calendar as well. At a time we've got the protests breaking out in dozens of American campuses across the United States over the invasion of Gaza in response to the October 7th attacks, you're talking about this going through the summer and possibly into the Democratic convention in, what, August.

So this is going to drag on politically for some time and even then it doesn't speak to the conclusion of how this all ends. And that hasn't been clarified either. You know, once they -- let's assume they go into Rafah, clear out the remaining battalions, get the leadership, accomplish everything they want to do, well, what happens after that? What's the governance structure? Is Israel in control? Is the Palestinians in control out of the West Bank?

There's now talk about maybe it is an agreement among the United States, Egypt, Saudis, UAE, and others to provide some type of policing force and governance for a period of time. But even when you get through that, what is the end state? Is there a two-state solution or is there some type of other arrangement? None of that has been defined and really articulated at all.

I think this drags out well into the rest of this year and arguably in the next year. It's just that complicated. DEAN: Yes. There is so much there. While I have you, I also want to

talk about Ukraine. Ukraine saying this week, Russia attacked the eastern part of the country nearly 2,000 times in a single day. We know that they've been fighting for over two years now. We now have this new funding that Congress has approved after much back-and-forth and it looked like it maybe wasn't going to happen.

Do you think that's going to be the boost Ukraine needs to ultimately win this war, not just survive, but win?

ESPER: Well, look, the funding is important. It has provided a big morale booster, but there's boosting morale, and then there's logistics. And the logistics of this fact is that it's going to take weeks and weeks, if not months, for really significant amounts that material and ammunition to be delivered to the Ukrainian frontlines. At the same time, Russia is going to continue to press forward.

They've seized about 200 square miles of Ukrainian -- new Ukrainian territory since the beginning of this year. They're going to try and do a little bit more before the May 9th Victory Day. But then we know that Russia is going to press for a major offensive this summer as early as mid to late May but going into the summer and they're going to try and capture as much ground as they can while the weather is good, which gets back to your question.

Look, I don't think Ukraine is going to be able to mass material, get the platform (INAUDIBLE), they still don't have F-16 jets, and then they have a big manpower problem. They need to conscript and train and make sure those soldiers are prepared. So I don't expect to see a Ukrainian counteroffensive really until spring of next year at the earliest. And so the question is, you know, can they hold out? Can they marshal the forces, prepare them for the spring of next year?

And then what are their chances of success? Because Russia will also be building up at the same time. And then the big wildcard, Jessica, is who wins the presidential election here, and whether it's Biden or Trump. If it's Trump, will he decide not to support the Ukrainians? He could turn off that ammunition and materials picket pretty quickly. And that would of course pull the rug out from the Ukrainians at that point in time.

DEAN: All right. More to come on that. Secretary Mark Esper, always great to have you on. Thanks so much.

ESPER: Thank you.

DEAN: The relentless flooding threat continues in Texas where rivers are surging to the highest levels seen since Hurricane Harvey. And even more rain is expected to fall over the weekend. We'll take you there.

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[16:33:49]

DEAN: The threat of devastating flooding is getting even worse as more rain falls in east Texas amid water rescues and evacuations there.

Take a look at this home in Montgomery County. Nearly like two feet of rain falling in parts of the state. And more is now on the way.

First responders are now using boats to rescue people who are stranded in Woodloch, Texas.

CNN's Rosa Flores is joining us now from Harris County, Texas.

And we see the flooding there behind you, Rosa. Give us a sense of how people are dealing with this, especially considering heavy rain is forecasted for tomorrow.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's just really devastating for the individuals who are impacted here. I've talked to multiple, who are very emotional about what they're going through.

Let me set the scene for you because this is a street that leads deep into a neighborhood that they call River Bottoms. There's a lot of people who live back there. A lot of them live in mobile homes or R.V.s.

But you can see that it is completely covered in water. There is a blue truck way back there. You can't see it.

I talked to the owner of that truck and he says that, overnight, the water started rising. He was actually inside the truck because he thought that he was going to be able to drive away.

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But by the time that he realized it, it was too late. He says that he could feel that the current was trying to pull his vehicle. That's when first responders said, he says, that they rescued him.

I mean, but you can see that all of this area is covered in water. You can see some mobile homes.

I talked to one another woman who says that she was actually at the hospital overnight. And she says that when she drove here this morning, she couldn't get to her home. And so she doesn't have her medications. She doesn't have her belongings. She was very emotional about that.

Now I want to tell you about the owner of this home. This is Stacy Smith's home. You can see that she was able to get out of her home, but you can see that the water levels are very high.

Now, she was very emotional because she says that about eight to 15 people, her friends, people she knows, are still back there, this area that I was showing you moments ago.

And if you take a look, you can see that it's covered in water. And she says that these eight to 15 people did not want to get into rescue boats with first responders. She says that she tried to convince them that it was best for them to

leave. And she says that her friends, her practically extended family would not get into the boats. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACY SMITH, HELPED FLOOD VICTIMS: A lot of them are not wanting to leave their homes because they've been there their whole life or that's all they have. And they don't want to leave whatever belongings they or their animals that we can't get.

A lot of them are just scared or they have nowhere to go at all. So I was trying to tell them, look, it doesn't matter. We're going to get you out of here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: And if you take a live look right now, you can see the water levels on the trees. Now, this is giving residents here hope because the water level has dropped a little bit. You can see that the water level has receded.

But we know that there is more rain coming overnight. And that's what authorities are so worried about.

And you know, just to share more about what Stacy shared, Stacy Smith was saying that those eight to 15 people who are still in the river bottom area who don't want to leave, they are sick, some of them are disabled, some of them are elderly. They have their pets with them.

And they're very, very concerned. And she's hoping, in the next few hours, to actually go in there and try to convince them to come to higher ground.

Back to you.

DEAN: Scary situation.

Rosa Flores, for us, thanks so much.

Jurors in Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial ended the week with testimony from Hope Hicks, formally, a close aide to Trump, who started crying on the stand at one point during her testimony. Just how crucial her testimony may have been.

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DEAN: Perhaps the most dramatic moments so far in Donald Trump's hush money trial in New York came on Friday when Hope Hicks, his former spokeswoman, took the stand.

Hicks, once a trusted advisor, cried. And she described the fallout when the "Access Hollywood" tape became public in October 2016, just before the election.

And she testified the campaign then worried about a "Wall Street Journal" story about Trump's connection to Stormy Daniels.

Former White House lawyer for the Trump administration and CNN commentator, Jim Schultz, is joining us now.

Jim, nice to see you.

What were your big takeaways from Hope Hicks' testimony?

JAMES SCHULTZ, CNN COMMENTATOR: So I thought she came across very credible. And she also became -- you know, she came off in a way that she was sympathetic to the jurors.

I mean, that moment where she got upset. She had spent the day being very truthful, very open. And I think the jury probably received that well.

But also there was nothing really blockbuster here for the prosecution, and nothing that was really for the defense, putting a nail and the coffin of the prosecution's case. So I think it came out of the balance.

The one issue that came out I thought was where, after the fact, she testified that Donald Trump said, well, good thing -- that's a good thing that was taken care of before the election.

And I think that was a moment where people are making a big deal about it. But remember, that's kind of hindsight being 2020. So I don't know that that's really going to convince folks that this was all -- you know, that they make the connection between the campaign in and this -- this payment.

And ultimately, remember, you have to get to the point where -- and there's nothing tying the payments itself to Donald Trump. And none of that came out through this. You need that in order to -- more to make the case. None of that came out through her testimony.

But what she did was also impugn the credibility tremendously of Michael Cohen, saying, look, he was always trying to get in the room. He was always trying to be part of the campaign. He wasn't supposed to be. They didn't want him in the room, but he kept trying to get in the room.

And she also said he tended to go rogue.

DEAN: Yes. And she gave a lot of background on how the Trump campaign was feeling after that "Access Hollywood" tape came out.

Do you think that the prosecution was able to paint a picture of Trump being politically motivated in silencing Stormy Daniels. I hear you when you're saying, uh, you could just say like, yes, I guess it's hindsight 2020, it is good that it came out before.

But do you think they were able to drive home that point that it was politically motivated?

[16:45:03]

SCHULTZ: Sure, sure. They're driving home the point that the campaign was concerned about anything that went on, especially this issue, right, in that moment.

Sure the campaign was very concerned about it. Sure. Donald Trump was very concerned about it. That's -- campaigns, that's -- that's what you have to worry about, all of these types of personal things coming out. So, sure, that's one piece of it.

But they also talked about -- she also talked a lot about Donald Trump in getting personally involved in things, right? But in particular, anything that dealt with front-facing commentary, messaging that was going out, how things were said, that he was a micromanager involved in every piece of that.

But what we didn't get out of that was that he was a micromanager on the other side of it, the business side of it, how things happened, how things were recorded -- recorded.

Remember, at the end of the day, this is a business records case. And they've been unable so far to make any real tie between that business record and Donald Trump.

DEAN: And I'm just curious, as someone who worked as an attorney in the Trump White House, knows the former president, Hope Hicks did a lot. She explained a lot about him, added a lot of color to the way that he runs his business, did run his business, ran his campaign.

Is that the Donald Trump you know? Did that sound familiar to you, her kind of description of him?

SCHULTZ: Look, she was -- she talked a lot about -- about how the Trump Organization worked. That it was a big business, but it was run like a small family business. That he was very involved in a lot that went on in the Trump Organization.

And, look, government's a little different, right, in terms of how -- how things are run and the processes that they go through.

But the one thing she hammered home is the external-facing things, the things that were hitting the press, the messages that were going out, that he was intimately involved with day in day out in the White House. And that's certainly him.

The public persona, most important thing to him.

DEAN: And we've certainly -- we've seen that play out within the microcosm within this whole trial, right? He wants to manage the public perception of what this trial means, too, and also what it could mean for his -- his chances to be reelected.

Jim Schultz, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

SCHULTZ: Always happy to be on. Thanks.

DEAN: College students across the country are crossing the stage this weekend against the backdrop of intense pro-Palestinian demonstrations. More on this.

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[16:52:00]

DEAN: Commencement celebrations are underway at universities here in the U.S., and they come amid weeks of unrest at college campuses all across the country where protesters have been calling for an end to the war in Gaza and for schools to divest from Israeli-linked entities.

Today, pro-Palestinian protesters interrupted the commencement ceremony at the University of Michigan. The event was briefly delayed as police removed those protesters, you're watching right there.

CNN's Rafael Romo is live for us at Florida State University in Tallahassee.

And, Rafael, officials took precautions today, ahead of today's ceremonies. What did they do and what did -- what did the scene look like?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me tell you, the commencement ceremony here at Florida State University, Jessica, in Tallahassee, finished about an hour ago.

But there's another one coming up as 7:00 p.m. And it was very orderly and calm. And of course, full of excitement for those graduating and their families and loved ones.

In fact, this was one of six ceremonies that were scheduled to be held here at FSU between Friday and Saturday. According to the university, FSU is awarding degrees to more than 7,800 graduates.

Five protesters were arrested during a demonstration here at the FSU campus. But that happened on Tuesday afternoon. Two of them are current students, according to the school, and they were banned from campus for one year and it's still an open question whether they will be able to graduate.

FSU said in a statement that the arrest occurred after the individuals ignored multiple requests and warnings to comply with a lawful order. Officials said that the universities rules and regulations had been explained repeatedly over several days and that the group had been compliant until the arrest happened.

Now, it was also a tense week at the University of Florida in Gainesville, about two hours away from here, where nine pro-Palestine protesters were arrested Monday evening on campus.

On Friday, we spoke with the leader of the same group of pro-Palestine protesters in Gainesville. He criticized Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who recently said that Florida is not going to put up with violent protesters and people who, in his words, tried to come into your college launch.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARON ALI-MCCLORY, YOUNG DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA: We're asking for disclosure of financial transactions of the endowment so that we can ask for divestment from weapons manufacturing and companies that are complicit in the genocide happening in Gaza.

Additionally, we want the U.S. to end, of course, partnerships with weapons manufacturers and other such kind of affiliations that the university has.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Jessica, protesters are also demanding that the University of Florida publicly denounce what they call violence and discrimination against pro-Palestinian students as well as a call for a ceasefire in Gaza.

On the other hand, we also spoke with graduating Jewish students who told us some of the protesters seemed unable to understand how hurtful and offensive some of the things protesters are chanting can be.

[16:55:07]

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZOE MOTTIOWITZ, U.F. GRADUATING JEWISH STUDENT: People don't understand the meaning of words that they're saying. I think that's the whole issue with this movement is people are seeing that it's a trend and saying from "the river to the sea" and not realizing that's completely anti-Semitic and calling for the genocide of Jews.

So, you know, you have this argument that it's genocide on one side, but really when you're chanting these things to Jews, it means the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Jessica, again, so far, the ceremonies here on FSU had been very orderly and calm. This place, as you can see right now, is empty, but it'll fill up again when the next ceremony starts at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Now, back to you.

DEAN: Rafael Romo, for us in Tallahassee, thanks so much for that reporting.

Former President Trump using his time outside the courtroom to raise more money for his campaign as he courts potential V.P. picks as well. We're going to have more ahead on that in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And also a quick programming note for you. The CNN original series, "HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED" with Jesse L. Martin returns to CNN tomorrow with two new episodes. And you can catch those at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.

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