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U.S. Pauses Planned Weapons Shipment Over Rafah Concerns; Sources: Trump Attorneys Plan Longer Cross-Exam Of Stormy Daniels; Rep. Greene Meets Again With Johnson Amidst Ouster Threat. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired May 08, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, SPOKESMAN, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: To evacuate. We will continue to work with the international humanitarian organizations to secure both food supplies, medical supplies, hospitals, and shelter where it's needed. We've expanded the humanitarian area in Al-Mawasi precisely for that.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: All right.

LERNER: And indeed, we have to keep in mind that it is a tragic war, a war that Israel didn't want for once but a war nevertheless, we have to win. Otherwise, we would be giving the upper hand to terrorists around the world.

ACOSTA: Colonel Peter Lerner, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it. For some analysis, I want to bring in a Barak Ravid. He's a CNN political and global affairs analyst. He's also the politics and foreign policy reporter for Axios. Barak, I mean, it doesn't sound as though the Israelis are going to change their military tactics despite everything that is being said around the world right now about what we've been witnessing in terms of the level of civilian devils -- devastation in Gaza?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think that when it comes to Rafah, at least for now, they actually did make some changes. Meaning, as you can see, the current operation is not really an operation in Rafah. It's an operation in the Rafah Crossing, which is, again, not the same as -- same as the difference between Washington State and Washington, DC. But still, it's not the same place.

ACOSTA: Yes.

RAVID: Meaning, the Rafah Crossing is on the outskirts of the city. The Israelis reached the crossing through a road that doesn't even go through civilian areas. And they're there for now.

I don't know if they're going to broaden this operation. If they do, then it's a different story. But at least at the moment, they went for the -- let's say, the most mild in the initial part of such of the operation that they've been talking about for a few months now. ACOSTA: And what do you think the impact is going to be when it comes to the administration hitting the pause button on these planned weapons shipments over to the Israelis because of these concerns of what might take place in Rafah?

RAVID: So, I think that's a signal -- that was a signal. And, you know, on Sunday, when I first reported the story about this paused weapons shipment, the White House didn't want to -- didn't want to respond. An hour ago, Secretary of Defense Austin confirmed it on the record in front of Congress.

So, I think that in the last few days, there was a development in how the administration wants to deal with this thing publicly. And the Israelis obviously are very unhappy about this. But at least for now, this is an isolated incident, or let's say an isolated signal when it comes to the current operation Rafah. Where we are at that moment, the administration and the White House, and President Biden don't see what the Israelis are doing at the moment as a violation of the red line that Biden has put forward a few months ago.

ACOSTA: And what do you think about what Colonel Lerner was saying that the stated objectives that they believe they can still find leaders of Hamas and military commanders of Hamas in this area where they're operating? How -- I mean, does that -- how does that fly with you in terms of what you know about these objectives and the -- and the possibility that they can find these Hamas leaders in that area?

RAVID: Yes. Well, you know, again, let's put my personal opinion aside here.

ACOSTA: Sure, yes.

RAVID: Let's just look at the facts. OK? You know, in November, after the last hostage deal and ceasefire broke down -- after a week of a ceasefire, Israel resumed its ground operations in the Gaza Strip, went to Khan Yunis, went to other areas of Gaza, and it said that military pressure will get the hostages out. Since then, they've got two hostages out and the military operation was very successful, but nothing more than that. And Hamas did not really changed its positions in the hostage negotiations since then and until today.

There were some cosmetic changes, but the main demand that Hamas has, which is that after the implementation of a deal, the war will end, this did not change even though Israel went through you know, all around Gaza with its -- with its military. It did not work.

ACOSTA: All right, Barak Ravid, thank you very much. We appreciate it. We'll be right back.

RAVID: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:38:57]

ACOSTA: All right. This just in. Sources telling CNN that Donald Trump's defense attorneys are planning a longer-than-expected cross- examination of Stormy Daniels. Let's discuss with Republican strategist Doug Heye, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Karen Finney. Guys, thank you so much for being with us.

Doug, what do you think? We've -- you know, kind of gone through the legal ramifications of what we saw yesterday in terms of the Stormy Daniels' testimony. We talked about that with our legal experts.

From a political standpoint, was this a damaging day for Donald Trump? Is it a wash? What's your sense of it?

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think most of this is all a wash. It comes down to whether or not there's a conviction. That will have political implications. The rest of this is very much baked in.

Remember, we had a thing that happened on -- late on a Friday afternoon during the 2016 campaign called the Access Hollywood tape. And we all thought well, this is it. Donald Trump is doomed because of bad news about Donald Trump's character. It turns out he was able to win through that.

So much of this is baked in with voters. They're not following the machinations on this on a minute-by-minute trial, especially because we're never going to have Donald Trump trying on the gloves on camera and so forth. They're not watching this live. And so, whether it's news coverage or late-night comedians, it's not breaking through in a way that's going to change anything short of a conviction.

[11:40:13]

ACOSTA: You know, Karen, a lot of people are watching this. A lot of people are paying attention to this, and -- you know, and for all of the complaints from the Trump defense team about the level of detail that Stormy Daniels got into yesterday. I mean, going back to the Access Hollywood, it was Donald Trump who explained Access Hollywood. His locker room talk. There was a lot of that kind of level of detail that we heard yesterday.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's true. And here's what actually saved him. It wasn't that it was on a Friday, it was his wife. When his wife came out and said that, you know, that's the locker room talk.

That's -- I think she said, you know, that's -- you know, men talk like that, sort of thing. That actually created the permission structure in 2016 for female voters to then go ahead and vote for him. And obviously, as we know, Trump has had trouble with women voters throughout his various elections, and certainly, he's having trouble in this election cycle sort of, you know, galvanizing suburban women, where I think it will matter.

I agree with Doug that a lot of the back and forth. May -- people aren't probably tracking. They will pay attention, I think if they learned that Trump, you know, basically tried to hide this from the electorate. You know, also, I think there's a question of sure he was trying to hide it from his wife. He may be assumed that if it came out, what was she going to do?

HEYE: Yes.

FINNEY: In addition to maybe trying to protect her feelings and all. So, I think that's what people are going to -- particularly women voters and any voters who in 2016 might have set -- who maybe still were on the fence in 2020 who might have said, maybe. And then this will confirm that you know what, whatever thoughts you had about Trump, you were right, and you shouldn't vote for him again.

ACOSTA: You know, Doug, I -- you know, you might say, and you might be right, that this was all a wash yesterday, and Trump did get that win out of the declassified documents case where the judge there postponed that case indefinitely. But I wonder if the -- we're kind of losing the big picture on a detail that came out yesterday that a lot of folks are not paying enough attention to. Nikki Haley captured nearly 22 percent of the vote last night in Indiana's Republican primary. This continues to go on. And there's been a lot of talk and a lot of it's legitimate about the softness in Biden's poll numbers. This can -- this keeps going on, Doug. What do you think of this?

HEYE: So that's a very different matter, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes.

HEYE: I was one of Nikki Haley's -- Nikki Haley's final campaign events in Raleigh, North Carolina. And the atmosphere in that room was very real. And it was a big room. They had to upgrade the space twice to accommodate people.

Now, most of those people in Raleigh or at other events, or the people who voted for Nikki Haley, are probably going to vote for Donald Trump. It's what we call post-primary coming home. Democrats come home after the primaries. Republicans come home.

But if you're one of those Nikki Haley people who wore a t-shirt that said permanently banned, you're a lot less likely to do that. And if you're looking at swing states, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, North Carolina, that's where a few thousand people here and there, coming to real focus.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Wisconsin is one of those states, Karen, that we're all going to be focused on.

FINNEY: Yes.

ACOSTA: And the president is going to be in Wisconsin to talk about this new three-billion-dollar investment in a new Microsoft AI facility there. Apparently, roughly in the same area where I think Trump had talked about development going up during his administration that didn't come to pass. But I mean, do -- I mean, is Doug right that a lot -- most of those folks come home to Donald Trump, or is this a number here that we're just not paying close enough attention to?

FINNEY: I think it's a number we need to be paying closer attention to and certainly, the Biden campaign is paying close attention to, to understand whether or not -- they probably are not going to vote for Trump. But the question is, could they be convinced to vote for Joe Biden, or are they just going to not participate? And either way, again, when we're talking -- and I remember was Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania, we're talking about 22,000 votes. 21,000, right? These are small margins.

ACOSTA: Right.

FINNEY: So, if you could even get just those folks who voted in Indiana, 21,000, in Wisconsin to vote for Biden instead of Trump, that could be a margin of victory. So, people are paying very close attention as we try to understand what's going on in the electorate. This -- but the very last thing I'll say very quickly.

Obviously, President Biden is also in Wisconsin today to talk about accomplishments. But also, this is a contrast of a promise made and a promise kept versus Trump who made a promise, but he was not able to keep it to the voters of Wisconsin.

ACOSTA: Yes. And you know, Trump has been complaining that because of this Stormy Daniels trial, he hasn't been able to get out on the campaign trail as much as he would like. He's not doing that today. He's -- the trials not happening today, and he's not having a rally today. So, all right guys. Karen Finney, and Doug Heye, thanks, as always. I really appreciate it.

HEYE: Thank you.

[11:45:11]

ACOSTA: All right. Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is not backing down from her threat to force a vote to oust the House speaker, Mike Johnson. His response is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: We now go up to Capitol Hill where lawmakers are waiting to see if and when Congressman Marjorie Taylor Greene makes good on her threat to kick the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, to the curb. The two met privately again yesterday with the Georgia Republican naming her price to back off the motion to vacate. But top Senate Republicans are urging the speaker not to give in to her demands. New York Congressman and top Democrat on the foreign affairs committee Gregory Meeks joins us now.

[11:50:04]

Congressman, I mean, you know, what we've seen from Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's given the speaker a list of demands. It includes defunding the Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigation into Donald Trump. No more aid for Ukraine.

What do you make up for this? Do you think the speaker will give in to her demands? How's he -- how's he been handling Marjorie Taylor Greene, do you think? REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): No, I don't think he's going to give it to her demands, nor should he. She is clearly an extreme MAGA Republican. And I don't think that she has the support, overwhelmingly of the Republican conference. So, that's known moving forward too. So, I just don't see what her motivations are to just shut the government down.

And I think that Leader Jeffries is showing that he is a real leader. Saying that we're not going to allow politics to overplay the people. We got to put people over politics. And so, we're not going to allow the government to virtually shut down again as the Republicans have done in the past.

And I think that's the right move to make. And so, I hope she sees the futility of what she's attempting to do. But she will not win in the long run because as Leader Jeffries has said, we will table the vote and continue to move on.

Then, the question is what we move from there. But so far, I think Speaker Johnson has stuck to his guns. And I hope that he continues to do that.

ACOSTA: Congressman, I did want to ask you about Israel and Gaza. U.S. officials telling CNN that the administration paused a shipment of bombs to Israel over concerns that they would be used in an attack on Rafah. I believe the Defense Secretary has said something to that effect in his testimony up on Capitol Hill but yet -- but yet, I was talking to an Israeli Defense Forces spokesman earlier, and he -- they seem to be pretty committed to the idea that they need to conduct some kind of an operation in Rafah despite what the Biden administration is doing with those bombs. What's your reaction to all of that?

MEEKS: Well, look, I've long said that the 2000-pound bombs that we saw exploding in Gaza after October 7th is not the right way to go. The deaths of innocent women, children, men, who have nothing to do with this should not be -- you know, the thousands -- over 34,000 dead. And I think that the world is with Israel in getting rid of Hamas, but you can't go after 10, 20, or a brigade of Hamas and kill thousands of innocent people. There's got to be a better way of doing it.

And I think that's simply what the President of the United States is saying. Because no one wants Hamas to exist. We could not have a two- state solution of which the president wants with Hamas still in charge.

I had a conversation with King Abdullah yesterday from Jordan. He's saying the same kind of thing. So, the world was with -- as we saw after October 7th, the world is with Israel in regards to the horrendous attacks that started this war in the first place.

And as we saw the world again, with Israel after the attacks from Iran. So, the world is there, but we just can't allow the kinds of bombing that we saw take place that destroys entire residences and kills thousands of individuals. And so, that dialogue and conversations with the president is saying that we have to have in order for him to move forward, I guess, with the weapons that he's now holding back.

ACOSTA: Yes. Let me ask you a quick political question. I mean, obviously, there's this Stormy Daniels trial going on and -- in New York right now. And just last night, the former U.N. Ambassador, Nikki Haley, got 22 percent in the Indiana primary, despite the fact that she dropped out of the race a while ago.

Should President Biden reach out to Ambassador Haley? Should there be some kind of outreach from the Biden campaign to Ambassador Haley to see if they can somehow bring her on board? Are there some votes out there that maybe the president and his team were overlooking?

MEEKS: Look, I think that some of the Haley voters and clearly not all of them are looking forward to the opportunity to see how we can work together, how we can bring Democrats and Republicans together, and not continuing to divide this country. And I think that if you look at the policies of what Joe Biden is putting forward, it does just that. So, I think that if the president continues to show what we can accomplish together and how we can change the language of which Donald Trump has put up, which is just a divide, that those individuals will naturally flow to Joe Biden.

So, yes. So, you reach out to those independents and to those Republicans who want to continue to strive to become a more perfect union. Absolutely. That's what this thing is all about. That's putting people over politics. And I fully anticipate that that message will go through.

[11:55:00]

And the hope is that -- and clearly, I think that the former Governor, Haley will hear that message. She used to be a diplomat herself in -- at the UN, so she should understand and see what Joe Biden has done. And with the Ukraine war, you know, how he's bringing people together in that regards, how he's bringing the Indo-Pacific together, working with Japan along with South Korea, and Australia, how he's doing all of those things that she knows very well needs to take place for us to continue to move forward.

ACOSTA: All right.

MEEKS: So, I would hope that she sees that. And that message is what -- is receptive and will get those voters.

ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Meeks, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

MEEKS: Thank you for having me.

ACOSTA: All right. And thank you for joining me in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta.

Stay with CNN. "INSIDE POLITICS" with Dana Bash starts after a short break. But first, here is this week's "CHASING LIFE" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of CNN's "CHASING LIFE" podcast.

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GUPTA: But in moderation, caffeine can also have health benefits.

GUPTA (voiceover): It can stimulate your nervous system, help with cardiovascular disease, and pack in plenty of antioxidants. The key is to pay attention to how much caffeine you're consuming when you're consuming it, and what it does to you.

GUPTA: You can try this little experiment. Just go coal turkey for a while, and then pay close attention to that first cup of coffee you have after a while.

GUPTA (voiceover): Once you know how caffeine works on you, you might even enjoy that cup even more. You can hear more about how to optimize your health and chase life wherever you get your podcast.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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