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CNN Live Saturday

Residents Gather to Mourn Murdered Families; Killings in Iraq Straining Relations; Terror Sweep in Toronto

Aired June 03, 2006 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: And in Baghdad, a car filled with Russian diplomats is ambushed by gunman. The Russian embassy confirms a diplomat was killed and four others were kidnapped.
Iraq's government isn't happy that the U.S. military cleared U.S. troops of killing civilians in Ishaqi. An aide to Iraq's prime minister said the investigation was rushed. The raid targeted a suspect al Qaeda safe house and several Iraqis civilians, including women and children were killed. Iraq is thinking of conducting its own investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASST. COMM. MIKE MCDONELL, ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE: Three tons of ammonium nitrate was ordered by these individuals and delivered to them. It was their intent to use it for a terrorist attack. If I can put this in context for you -- the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, that killed 168 people, was completed with only one ton of ammonium nitrate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The results, 17 Canadians arrested. Police say they planned terror attacks in southern Ontario. And the FBI thinks some of the suspects had some contact with two people recently arrested in Georgia. Kyung Lah reports from Washington with more on this developing story. Kyung, amazing.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is really is an amazing story, Carol. The contact, though, that you are talking about, according to the FBI here in Washington is limited contact between two men arrested in Georgia on suspicion of terrorist activity here in the U.S. and some extremists in Canada.

Now, the two Atlanta-area men, U.S. citizens, were arrested back in March. Attorneys for the two men have not returned calls we've made here at CNN. Now, over in Canada, authorities this morning announced that they had stopped an attack within Canada.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCDONELL: This group posed a real and serious threat. It had the capacity and intent to carry out these acts. Our investigation and arrests prevented the assembly of any bombs and the attacks from being carried out.

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LAH: Canadian authorities say they've snagged evidence of the suspects trying to obtain explosives, three times the amount used to blow up the federal building in Oklahoma City. Seventeen people were arrested last night, most of them adult men, some young people. All from Canada, either citizens or residents. Suspected of plotting a terror attack on some buildings in Toronto. This afternoon, the prime minister of Canada congratulated law enforcement for stopping an attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN HARPER, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Their target -- their alleged target, was Canada. Canadian institutions, the Canadian economy, the Canadian people.

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LAH: The chairman of the Homeland Security Committee Representative Peter King of New York says that Americans do need to be concerned about these arrests in Canada. Canada is a northern neighbor. And al Qaeda, according to intelligence experts, is evolving into these homegrown terror cells.

LIN: Kyung, we're watching some pictures of young men in cars being taken away. I presume some of them are the suspects. One of them there looks like he has a smile on his face.

LAH: It's sort of hard to tell. You can guess that's what he looks like, he certainly doesn't look very upset though.

LIN: And a diverse group here, right?

LAH: According to Canadian officials they are saying they are from various backgrounds. Sharing though, a philosophy. They are, according to the Canadian officials, inspired by al Qaeda. We do know, according to some of the experts we've spoken to, sources telling CNN that they do appear to be of Muslim background that they share the same religion but they all are inspired by al Qaeda.

LIN: Kyung, authorities are not talking targets, are they saying how close the guys got to actually setting off a bomb and making an attack?

LAH: They were very advanced. If you think about how close they were, they actually had these explosives. We don't know if they had them in their hands or if they ordered them and they are being shipped, exactly where the explosives were, but they did have ready access to these explosives. This is very advanced. It is something that intelligence experts say should be very concerning to anybody.

LIN: Kyung, thank you very much. More on this story throughout the night.

CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. So stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

U.S. forces in Iraq, under fire and now under scrutiny. An army investigation clears troops of wrongdoing in one incident, but the military is still looking into an alleged massacre and two deadly shootings. First, the March raid in the town of Ishaqi north of Baghdad. The army now says U.S. troops acted properly and will not face charges. Officials say U.S. forces came under attack and fired back. They say as many as 12 Iraqi civilians may have died.

Now, to the shooting death of an Iraqi man in Hamandiya back in April. A dozen U.S. troops are under investigation now. A source says murder charges are likely against several of them.

Now, another incident happened this week in Samarra. The military is looking into reports that soldiers shot and killed two women. One was pregnant. The women's vehicle apparently sped through a checkpoint while taking the pregnant woman to a hospital to give birth.

And in Haditha, the most serious allegations of all, the alleged massacre of 24 Iraqi civilians, including women and children, by U.S. marines last November. The marines are said to have gone on a rampage after a comrade was killed in a roadside bombing. Haditha is now the subject of two U.S. military investigations. One into what happened. The other, into a possible cover-up.

CNN's Arwa Damon was embedded with the same marine battalion in Haditha just days before the killings. Her story first aired on PAULA ZAHN NOW.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was not until I went back months later and looked again at the video you're watching now that it hit me. I was with the Marines in Haditha a month before the alleged killings last November, with the same battalion that's under investigation, the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines.

It was on its third tour of duty in Iraq, having lost 30 of its members on its previous deployment during the battle of Fallujah. What I remember most are the IEDs, the roadside bombs. On the way to the operation, the Humvee that I was in was hit by an IED. If it had hit another two inches back, we would have all been dead.

The city of Haditha seemed to be a mine field of IEDs, daisy- chained up and down the main road, buried on street corners. In fact, the number of times that we were told we were standing right on top of an IED minutes before it was found turned into a dark joke between the Marines and our CNN team. It was our way of coping.

The Iraqis here were wary, non unfriendly, but keeping their distance, watching behind closed doors as Marines searched their city. It was not the first time they had seen the Marines operate here.

I have been on countless operations up and down the Euphrates River Valley with other Marine battalions, going into cities and towns where closed doors sometimes were rigged with IEDs, or had an insurgent waiting with an AK-47, or a frightened family.

And it's a split-second decision to fire or not. The wrong decision could mean a dead Marine or a dead innocent civilian. How they didn't pull the trigger at the first movement they saw, sometimes, I don't know, but I did not see that happen.

I have been pinned down on rooftops with them for hours, taking incoming fire, and seen them not fire a shot back, because they had not positively identified a shooter. In this case, they thought they had a positive I.D. and fired a tank round. Wounded civilians streamed out. The Marines seemed horrified and rushed to help.

I was not in Haditha for the killings now under investigation, but, given the restraint I saw on so many operations, I found myself asking, could it really be true? Could there have been intentional killings of civilians? I don't know.

Arwa Damon, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: That report first aired on PAULA ZAHN NOW. You can join Paula weeknights at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and 5:00 Pacific.

Now in just a minute I'm going to ask a general familiar with soldiers' stress how they can handle it. But right now for insight into the Haditha investigations we go to a former navy Judge Advocate General, JAG. John Hutson joins us now from Boston. He is currently Dean of the Franklin Pierce Law Center. John, good to have you.

JOHN HUTSON, FRANKLIN PIERCE LAW CENTER: Thank you. It's nice to be here.

LIN: You take a look at Arwa's reporting there, and you really get a clear sense of what it's like, the fear, the stress, out there in the field. When you're prosecuting a case like this, how much of that emotion goes into the decision of guilt or innocence?

HUTSON: Well, it doesn't go particularly into the decision of guilt or innocence. So much as it goes into the question of how you're going to sentence somebody if you find them guilty in the first place.

The guilt or innocence question is a more factual question. But there's a phase in the court-martial system called extenuation and mitigation and it's at that phase where you try to extenuate or mitigate the offenses that kind of emotion can play a very powerful, profound role.

LIN: How does the military investigate disputed claims when eyewitnesses, for example in some of these cases are children?

HUTSON: Well, it's difficult, of course. The Department of the Navy, the Marine Corps is blessed with an organization called the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, and they are world-class criminal investigators and they will go in there. They'll -- they'll look at bullet markings. They'll study the bodies, if they can get a hold of them. They'll talk to people.

They will come up with a really very well-refined sense of what happened there. They'll figure out the "who" and it's the "why" and the "how" that's very much more different in fact quite a bit more important in a lot of ways.

LIN: How do you go about that? In the case of Haditha, they will be exhuming bodies, taking a look at physical evidence.

HUTSON: That's right.

LIN: And going back to the scene, which is not an easy thing to do to even walk the streets there.

HUTSON: Right.

LIN: So much danger there it's incomprehensible how a thorough, much less thoughtful, investigation can take place.

HUTSON: Well, I think at the criminal end of it, at precisely what happened, they'll be able to do a very respectable job. In spite of all the adversity. NCIS is good at that sort of thing. But, as I say, I think the more difficult part is going to be for the Marine Corps and for the military in Iraq generally to figure out why this happened. And how people could go on a rampage like that under these circumstances. And that's awfully important.

LIN: Well, and you've got a situation here now where Iraq has formed a parliament. It has government and now the prime minister is saying, and spokespeople for the prime minister are saying that, that Iraq should conduct its own investigations. Now, what are the rules of engagement there and how is that going to affect the outcome of whether marines are going to be prosecuted or not?

HUTSON: It won't affect it at all, I don't think. The United States armed forces are going to conduct this investigation, and the United States armed forces are going to court-martial anybody that they believe may be guilty of these awful offenses. So, Iraq can talk about it, but the reality of it is, as a practical matter, that it's going to be the United States and particularly the Marine Corps that deal with this.

LIN: And, then, a question, of course, of credibility for Iraqi civilians who are living through this war, but a whole another matter.

HUTSON: It's a whole another matter.

LIN: John Hutson, thank you very much.

HUTSON: You're quite welcome. Thank you.

LIN: We're going to be talking about stress and soldiers when we come back. Can training break down on the battlefield?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're dealing with a guerrilla warfare in a heavily urbanized environment where the combatants and the noncombatants are dressed the same way. You're being attacked by weapons with no distinguishable enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: He served in Iraq and I'll be talking about it with General David Grange. And later, our own Jeff Koinage confronts the president of Congo about his soldiers raping women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, you have a six-year- old daughter, you have a twin sister, you have a mother. If something like they were to happen you to, what would you do, sir?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: What will he do? Stay with us.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We know that 99.9 percent of our forces conduct themselves in an exemplary manner, and we also know that in conflicts, things that shouldn't happen, do happen. In this instance, there's an investigation with respect to what took place, and we'll soon know the answers. There's an investigation with respect to what took place thereafter and we'll soon know the answers and my impression is that the Marine Corps is handling it well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld defending the conduct and training of U.S. troops in Iraq. Still, all U.S. military personnel in Iraq are being given a refresher course in core warrior values. Well, CNN's Brian Todd investigated for THE SITUATION ROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As they try to piece together what happened at Haditha, U.S. military officials say they are determined not to let it happen again. Announcing a new program, what they call core warrior values training.

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, MULTINATIONAL FORCE/IRAQ SPOKESMAN: The legal, moral, and ethical standards that every military member should be adhering to on the battlefield.

TODD: But from Iraq to Vietnam combat veterans we spoke to say Marines and soldiers have already gotten training in ethics and morality on the battlefield and have strong opinions on how this new program may work in situations like Haditha.

GARETT REPPENHAGEN, IRAQ WAR VETERAN: This ethical training that they are talking about right now is a temporary Band-Aid.

TODD: Garett Reppenhagen was an army sniper in Iraq. In battle zones like Baqubah, he says, his unit was ambushed several times. He says he killed civilians he thought were targeting his unit but turned out to be unarmed and he says moral and ethical training often breaks down in battle.

REPPENHAGEN: You're dealing with guerrilla warfare in a heavily urbanized environment where the combatants and the noncombatants are dressed the same way. You are being attacked by weapons with no distinguishable enemy.

TODD: In Vietnam, Rick Weidman served as an army medic in the same division as Lieutenant William Calley, who was convicted of murder in the My Lai massacre. Soldiers frustrated by the loss of five of their own entered a village of My Lai and killed hundreds of civilians. Weidman was not at My Lai but his unit was booby trapped and ambushed repeatedly with civilians often in the mix. Mention battlefield ethics to him and he recall as time he worked on a Vietnamese girl of about 12, wounded by American troops. The girl, he says, had no nose left. He was furious with his unit.

RICK WEIDMAN, VIETNAM VETERMAN: Until I found out that they had pulled her out from -- She had opened up on our troops and killed four guys and wounded three others. So who is the enemy?

TODD (on camera): But other veterans were quick to say none of the stress excuses the alleged conduct of the marines at Haditha. They say morality training can work, but only if it works hand in hand with the leadership of officers who can pull their troops back from those situations. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Join Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM each weekday at 4:00 and again in prime time at 7:00 Eastern.

Well, the Iraqi insurgency has created incredibly high stress levels, that we know. Everyone is a potential enemy and attacks can occur anywhere at any time. A new Pentagon report also paints a chilling picture of the strength of the insurgency. So joining me is CNN military analyst and retired army general, David Grange. David, good to have you.

DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you.

LIN: You take a look at these incidents, Haditha, Ishaqi, Samarra and, yet, even another one, what do you account for the sheer number of these civilian death reports?

GRANGE: On a battlefield like this and insurgency and especially in built-up areas where you have enemy mixed with civilians or there's civilians at one period of time and a few seconds latter there are insurgents and vice versa, you have a lot of civilian casualties. And the problem is going to be, it's going to continue that civilians do get hurt. In this case, it could be where there was some revenge involved. We don't know yet, and if that was the case, that's inexcusable.

LIN: Eighteen years old, 19 years old, these marines, 20 years old. I mean, they are virtually children in a different world. What is it like working with these young men and training them, and how much can we really expect?

GRANGE: Well, that's right. Most of these soldiers come right out of high school. A year later, they are -- a half year later they are on a battlefield, so they are quite young. Those are the people that -- that's the age that fights this nation's wars. And it is tough. It's a tough training challenge for the commanders, for the sergeants to get these troops ready to understand what battle's about and how to act properly on a battlefield when you have just unbelievable stress and death all around you. How do you maintain your composure and discipline and obeying the rules of land warfare in a situation like this? It's a tall order.

LIN: How do you? When you hear about "core warrior values" being taught once again, a refresher course for troops. For the Iraqi families who are claiming that marines went on a rampage. I mean, what are Iraqi civilians to think in terms of how prepared U.S. troops are going to be for this insurgent battle?

GRANGE: Well, the United States military is more prepared than most armies in the world for this, in regards to treatment of civilians on the battlefield. And regrettably some incidents do happen. What's going to happen, though, is that whether they are guilty or not, the disinformation in Iraq and elsewhere is going to make them look guilty.

LIN: Uh-huh.

GRANGE: So they are going to bear the burden of that, in the civilians of that particular province, that village, that area, whether they are guilty or not, and the other soldiers and marines on the ground have to deal with it.

LIN: And the Pentagon report that recently came out that shows that the insurgents are as strong as ever before, that the leaders of insurgency are beginning to collaborate with the leaders of al Qaeda. Is this an indication you to that Iraqi forces are still nowhere near up to the task of securing their country?

GRANGE: Well, I think the Iraqi force have improved considerably. From last year as an example. The insurgency has always been pretty -- pretty strong, and they do have -- they've collaborated with al Qaeda and others, that have a common enemy, which is us, and which is the legal government of Iraq.

And they are going to continue to fight the best of their ability. They have no other option. Many of these people, can they turn down their arms and surrender? Yes, but they are not going to have the life that they want, they had before, and so they are going to continue to fight. So, yes, it's going to be a tough 2006 fighting this insurgency. LIN: And we have to remember the vast majority of men and women doing their job on the battlefield, doing it well, what we are hearing about, the reports in Haditha are hopefully just a minority. Thank you very much.

GRANGE: I think it is.

LIN: Brigadier General David Grange.

Well, Indiana police are still looking for mass murder suspect. Keith Oppenheim joins us live from the scene in three minutes.

And it's light and it's cheap, and it might save lives during an earthquake. We're going to take a look straight ahead on CNN.

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LIN: Other news across America, in Los Angeles, an alleged smuggling ring busted. Federal authorities charged 11 people and they are accused of moving hundreds of illegal immigrants, including babies, from Mexico into the U.S.

In Sedona, Arizona, about 200 people are being allowed to return home after a wildfire forced them out of their subdivision. The fire destroyed five buildings. Crews spent most of today working to contain that blaze.

And Indianapolis police continue to search for Desmond turner, the ex- convict is the man suspected in the killings of four adults and three children on Thursday. Another suspected triggerman was arrested Friday.

LIN: Police tear gassed one house this morning in their search for Turner. And Keith Oppenheim joins us live from Indianapolis with more on this manhunt. Keith?

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. An emotional scene is taking place right behind me, if you can see what's happening in front of Cova Rubia's (ph) home. Friends and family are gathering here. They are hugging each other, crying, speaking in Spanish. There's a makeshift memorial here and they are mourning the loss of seven family members, all who were murdered last week on Thursday night.

At the same time, police are very much involved in intense manhunt for the key suspect, Desmond Turner. Desmond Turner is 28 years old. He's believed to be the main perpetrator of this brutal crime. There have been, get this, seven raids in the last day. And the last raid happened this morning, just a few miles away from this murder scene.

Police found -- rather, fired canisters of tear gas into a house, but the suspect was not there.

Here at the house, there have been a number of neighbors coming by. Many of them appalled that a whole family was murdered. And some are talking specifically about the welfare of young children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVA SINCLAIR, FAMILY FRIENDS: They'll never see another Christmas, they'll never be out in this yard playing with the balls and the trampoline you see out there. They don't have a chance to grow up and experience life. They just got out of school for the summer and haven't had a chance to enjoy that. You know, just -- this is sick people. They need to be caught, and they need to be taken to the full extreme that the courts will allow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OPPENHEIM: That's exactly what police are hoping for too, Carol, that they will find Desmond Turner, the suspect, soon. They did arrest an accomplice, they say, of Desmond Turner, James Stewart, on Friday. And -- but now they are really focusing on Turner and they hope they can get him within the next few hours, possibly, if not the next day.

By the way, I should point out that one of the gentlemen from the group behind me came up to me just moments ago, and he told me that the family's going to have a service, a Christian service, tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. Eastern. A large gathering here in the street as they mourn in front of the house, where the murders took place.

LIN: Keith, our hearts go out to that family behind you. Thank you.

Well, they lived through the quake, but lost everything. And, now, it's a day-to-day struggle. How are the survivors getting along?

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HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In aid term this is the cruelest form of distribution. Only the strong stand a chance.

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LIN: Hugh Riminton reports from Yogyakarta.

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