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CNN Live Saturday
Preparing for the Space Shuttle Discovery Launch
Aired July 01, 2006 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: You know, by all accounts, Fredericka, this is a make or break launch. So it will go tort remaining launches for the space shuttle program. We're in the latter days, these are the golden years for the space shuttle.
Look at the crew walk out there. You see them waving, the commander on the right, Steve Lindsey; his pilot immediately to his left, Mark Kelly, I'm having a hard time making out the rest of the crew, but the remainder of the crew following them as they get into the astrovan there.
That ride to the launch pad, on that particular camper has got to be something. I'm joined by Eileen Collins here who one year ago made that walk, made that wave, there's always a group of workers there to cheer you on, got to be some butterflies in the stomach at that point.
EILEEN COLLINS, FORMER COMMANDER: Well, actually, you're pretty excited. It's great to see the employees out will because they've worked so hard getting your orbiter, your space shuttle ready to go on the mission. They do cheer us on. We see some of our instructors and flight controllers from Johnson's Space Center come out to cheer us on. We're pretty excited, the adrenaline's flowing. You're really focused on what's next.
What's next? You're going to go strap into the orbiter you're going to be checking your suit, your flight data file, your switchers; you're going into a pretty busy time now.
O'BRIEN: I'm told by a lot of astronauts, I'm sure you would bare this out, that on the day of launch time kind of slows down into little teeny increments. You're kind of living a minute at a time or even a second at a time in a sense.
COLLINS: Well I actually lose track of time in the general sense. I'm thinking of L minus or T minus time, you know, how much time is there until launch? We strap in at this certain time, we do the comtrex (ph) at this certain time, we start the auxiliary power units at a certain time. You're not really aware of, you know, is it 1:00 p.m. or 5:00 p.m., it's just really no sense of time in that aspect.
O'BRIEN: All right, as we see the convoy make its way, and they've got a, I guess by the time they get through the operations and check out building to here, it's about, what, probably about a 20 minute run or so, maybe 30 minutes. What do you talk about?
COLLINS: Well, we tell a few jokes. And our boss rides out with us so we a get a few last minutes pointers from him and, you know, it's really a -- it's a time for the commander to give his crew a little bit more confidence -- his or her crew a little bit more confidence. But it's really -- at that point in time, you're not thinking about the mission, you're just relaxing, telling a few jokes thinking about how much fun the mission's going to be.
O'BRIEN: All right, tell us about this tradition; I've always heard about this before, the crew can leave to do that walk-out. In the suit-up room there's a card game that the commander must play and the commander must lose it. Explain how this goes.
COLLINS: Well, it's a version of poker and it's a little bit like draw poker and you can't leave the suit-up room until the commander loses.
O'BRIEN: Do you know when this began? I mean how this all -- are you playing with one of the technicians is that it?
COLLINS: No, it's the crew and a couple of our bosses that play.
O'BRIEN: I see.
COLLINS: And in fact, if goes back to STS-1. And there is a little bit of a superstition there, but I have not found a relation to when the commander loses to whether or not you have a scrub that day. There's just no relation. Despite what you hear, it's just something that's fun.
O'BRIEN: So hopefully they've stacked the deck so the commander loses quickly, so on you can go.
COLLINS: Well, I will tell you on our first launch attempt last summer, I lost on the first try and we scrubbed that day.
O'BRIEN: Oh gees, not that we're putting a lot of superstition into it, but nevertheless, as technical an operation as this is, there are superstitions that along this. You know, in Russia, on their way to the launch pad, you know what they have to do there.
COLLINS: I'll let you talk about that.
O'BRIEN: Well, Yuri Gagarin did on the first mission ever, on his way to the launch pad, they stopped the vehicle, he to relieve himself. And now every Russian cosmonaut, anybody who flies on the Soyuz is supposed to do that.
COLLINS: Well I'm, -- there's a lot of superstations around launches, both in Russia and here. You know, some people will come in after a scrub, some of the workers in the second day, they got to park their car in a different parking spot because that is an unlucky parking spot, so they have to go -- and there's all kinds of superstations around launch, but...
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Eileen and...
COLLINS: To be honest with you, it's going to go, if it's going to go.
WHITFIELD: Eileen Collins and Miles, this Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta, Eileen, I know we talk about a little bit of TMI there, too much information on the relieve yourself there, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Sorry.
WHITFIELD: While, you got to have in light moments for a lot of the astronauts, as you mentioned, there's a lot of joking around in that astrovan as you called it, Miles, on the we to the launch pad, at the same time, do you have a lot of butterflies?
COLLINS: Well, I can speak for myself. I am very excited. It's like you're going into the big game and we know that our performance is going to make a difference. If we make a mistake, it could mean a scrub of the launch or even mean damage to hardware. So we are getting our butterflies up, when you get into the shuttle, you have got to be very focused.
My personal feeling is, I don't want to make a mistake, so before I take an action, I double check myself, I have another crew member watch me, am I on the right switch? Am I making the right call? And we always back each other up that way. The astronauts have a huge responsibility. And I think a little bit of joking around helps you relax and keeps your mind clear, so it's a good thing.
WHITFIELD: As the commander, do you kind of feel like, you know, mother hen for everyone, at the same time you kind of have to help keep everyone calm, keep them pumped up, how much responsibility do you feel as the commander of a shuttle launch to be in control of everybody and to help everybody else be in control, too.
COLLINS: Well, you know, I flew twice as a pilot and I had two great commanders, Jim Weatherby and Charlie Freecourt, I watched how they worked and how they were able to keep the crew at ease. This is something that was important for me, to keep my crew at ease. People are going to make mistakes was we go into the launch. If we do make a mistake, we have a policy for that.
We recognize it, we admit it and we correct it and make sure it doesn't happen again, but I think the commander's attitude makes a big difference. So I try to stay very positive, very, I'd say lighthearted on launch day. The crew is very responsible. They know what their job is and at that point in time, we're just ready to go.
WHITFIELD: Eileen or Miles, either one of you, what will transpire now for the next three hours, 42 minutes and counting?
O'BRIEN: Well, what we're going to see very soon is, they'll arrive at the launch pad, they'll stop, they'll take a look, they'll gather in this whole sight. Eileen, a moment ago, called it kind of a living beast, as it creeks there with this super cold liquid hydrogen, it's steaming and belching and all the things that are associated with it. It is still a thing, but it sort of has a life of its own.
And then you get in that elevator, climb up and then go across into the white room, where the closeout crew will be to -- the so- called caped-crusader, astronauts who are there to help button you in, and that's when -- then when you see the whole ritual of strapping of strapping in.
What's interesting to me is -- and part of the reason I think that they get through this with a minimal amount of butterflies is how many times do you this in simulation, it becomes very much a part of a ritual and a routine, doesn't it?
COLLINS: Well, the launch itself we do over and over again in the simulator at Johnson's Space Center, but the actual strapping in of the real orbiter, we only do that once during a practice countdown about two or three weeks prior to the launch. Now, everything Miles said was exactly correct but he missed one thing: The mosquitoes - you get those mosquitoes -- the mosquitoes are attracted to the orange suits.
So we all put on mosquito spray when we get in that elevator and we get out to the launch pad, and we hope we have a little bit of wind like we do today, which can kind of keep the bugs down, but occasionally we'll take those critters to orbit with us.
O'BRIEN: And those are some mosquitoes who have had quite a ride. I never knew they could go that high until I was in the top of that launch pad, and they were just dive bombing. They are veracious and they like orange. Who knew?
COLLINS: They do, but again, it's a little bit of a distraction for the astronauts. You know, you're going to get on this six-a-a- half million pound spacecraft and you're going to launch yourself into space and you're going to be under three Gs of acceleration, there's a lot of shaking that goes on, there's -- it's quite an amazing ride.
And any little distracter like that can -- you know, it kind of keeps it lighthearted, you can joke a little bit and those are nice things to have but again, we have to stay very, very focused on what we're doing, we don't want to make a mistake. We're talking about a mission that's very, very important, and we're just trained for this. And we're trained really to, you know, have a little fun on the side, but to stay focused on the mission.
O'BRIEN: And by the way...
WHITFIELD: Oh go ahead, Miles.
O'BRIEN: You go ahead.
O'BRIEN: I just want to bring you quickly up to date. We are marching toward a countdown, at this point, the weather as been green, as they say -- 60 percent chance it will stay that way. The technical problem that we've been dealing with, we're told the engineers are probably going to come up with a waiver to allow them to fly with this thermostat or heater in the lower left section of the orbiter which is not working properly in order to let them fly with that.
And it controls a small thruster that allows them to control fine movements in orbit and Eileen tells me you can work without it, it's not ideal, but you can work without it. And that's probably where they're headed towards.
COLLINS: Yes, we do have enough redundancy in the heaters, again, there's thermostats, there's heaters, the RCS jets are, I would say, the attitude control jets need to stay within a certain temperature range and if you can't do that, you'll have to just not use that jet and then the jet would be failed, but against there's enough redundancy there that you can still continue the mission. It's not really a safety issue, it's more of a mission and redundancy issue.
WHITFIELD: And Eileen and Miles, that's exactly what I was going to ask you about, while every -- just about every minute is accounted for the crew member, the same goings without saying for the other folks on the ground just trying to make sure carrying out the last minute inspections. How critical are those last minute inspections and can you take us through what we saw moments ago when they made that discovery about this thermostat reading?
O'BRIEN: Well, they discovered that while ago. What you're seeing more recently is the so-called ice team. By the way, the helicopter which escorts the crew here, if you can put the live picture on my telestrator that will help us out I can tell you where we are. They're coming by us right now. We'll be able to get a look. And what happen is you'll see the astrovan stopping at the launch control center and out will come the astronaut's bosses because they don't get to fly today.
COLLINS: The astronauts bosses stop at the launch control center and they'll hear the launch count from there.
O'BRIEN: And they're sort of like see you and off they go. And the closer you get to the pad, the fewer and fewer other human beings are around you. Suddenly you get to that point when they close things up, it must be a lonely feeling up there.
COLLINS: It is. It gets a little bit eerie; you have one security officer with you then one member of the closeout crew with you and he's going to be helping you with you oxygen and your cooling system and then it's the seven astronauts and we're, yes it is a bit of a lonely feeling out there but it's a good feeling.
O'BRIEN: There they go right by the area where we are right now, which is -- they're sort of stopped right now, as a matter of fact, right by the launch control center. There they stopped And out will come the astronaut bosses.
COLLINS: Yes, getting the last words of wisdom and words of advice frat bosses right now.
O'BRIEN: And who's on board there? That would be...
COLLINS: Kent Rominger, who's the chief astronaut, and Ken Bowersocks who Kent Rominger's boss, one level up. And they're both former astronauts, so they know what the crew is going through. O'BRIEN: Yes, and off they go. So Fred, it looks like we're marching toward a launch of Discovery at 3:49 p.m., but we still have still the weather to content with here. Frankly it's been pretty stable all day. We've got some white puffy clouds which would not stop the launch right now. What we'll watching for is inside a 20 mile disk around that launch pad.
And in certain parts of 30 miles depending on where it is, the formation of any sort of thunderstorms, certainly and clouds that might be kind of build up type clouds which could, by virtue of the shuttle flying through them, actually trigger its own lightning by virtue of static electricity, which is an interesting concept, but can happen.
So, all of these things will be factored in because the weather is important on the outside chance, remote chance, never happened before, that they'd have to abort and come back here and land at the Kennedy Space Center.
WHITFIELD: And Miles, for those folks who are just now joining us now here on CNN, you're looking at live pictures now where on board the van that you saw moments ago, what's being called astrovan, on board there, the seven member crew of the shuttle Discovery, getting ready to make their way through the Kennedy Space Center and make they're way to the launch pad there where the shuttle awaits them.
As Eileen Collins, commander at NASA, we've seen here pilot at least two at least two shuttle flights before, she's join us now as well, with miles O'Brien there at the Kennedy Space Center, describing that the crew has received some last-minute instructions, a pep talk too, if you will, from their bosses there at NASA as we await the arrival of that astrovan there at the launch pad.
And while they're making kind of a last lap, if you will, Eileen and Miles, as they make their way to the launch pad, at the same time, the butterflies just might be jumping through their floats as well as seeing all the other NASA employees line the roadway, greeting them at the same time they have to feel really excited and nervous too, as they're just moments away from the launch pad.
We're going to take a short break right now and then when we come back, we're talk again with you, Eileen Collins, and Miles O'Brien on the other side as the crew of space shuttle Discovery heads towards the launch pad there at Kennedy Space Center.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Well, welcome back to CNN LIVE SATURDAY, I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta. Miles O'Brien, along with NASA commander, Eileen Collins, there right in Kennedy Space Center and at the top of the screen, Reynolds Wolf in the Weather Center, and then on the far bottom side of the screen, you're looking at live pictures right there of the crew -- seven member crew of the space shuttle Discovery as they make their way to the launch pad.
NASA calls it a pedestrian mission, but is it really? It's the 115 shuttle mission, just over, now, three hours away, three hours 32 minutes away from scheduled launch. Miles O'Brien, let's go to you first. Weather has been a factor, and then too, this discovery of the thermostat reading which you say is now a waiver involved. So they still say all systems are go, right?
O'BRIEN: Yes, they do. Right now, they still haven't given us an official word they signed a waiver, but let me explain to you, before we get into the weather, let me with the help of Eileen what we're talking about. There are a total of 40-plus thruster all over the space shuttle, the main thruster system which has 38 of them, each of them are pretty strong, they have about 800 pounds of thrust.
There are six find tuning, for the most delicate of maneuvers in space, six of them they're called verniers, they are four in the back, two and two and then one on each side in the bow of the ship, if you prefer, or the front of the ship, whichever you prefer, depending on how nautical you are. One of them has a thermostat and heater issue, this is the left one and they're not confident it will operate in orbit.
The question is not an issue that would preclude it from getting to space. They don't use it on launch. It's a question of how that might affect the docking at the space station, for example. I talked to Eileen Collins a while ago, she said I'd fly without it. You can do it, you train for it, you train for the lack of those verniers, you might use more propellant, you might be quite as graceful. Right?
COLLINS: That's true, it's actually a challenge for the commander to fly around it without the verniers, but we do train for it and you know, everybody is going to try to do their best job and save as much propellant for later in the mission as we can.
O'BRIEN: So worth passing on when you look at the big picture.
COLLINS: I think so.
O'BRIEN: Because weather might get worse the next day, who knows what might happen, it's time to get the mission going. There's all kinds of factors you have to include, including the fact that they're going to try to fly another mission in the latter part of August.
Now, back to the weather issue, briefly, we are told by the chief weather officer here that the weather was not go for launch. There were some so-called anvil clouds which are kind of shorn off thunder heads which a space shuttle can't fly through on its way to space, and also they have to consider the possibility that some 30 minutes later it might have to come back for a emergency return to launch sites. It's never happened before.
Look at the crew there as they walk out. We're told it's back in the green, but it's going to be right on the edge, we'll be watching that closely. All right, there they are, top of the mobile launch platform there, Eileen, and this is a moment you remember throughout your astronaut career, all throughout your life, for that matter, right? COLLINS: You're not in a hurry to get in the elevator. The closeout crew has to load all your equipment in the elevator. While they're doing that, you take a little breather and you go out and you get a good perspective on the space shuttle stack take a good look at the Discovery vehicle that you're going to be flying into space, it's a pretty awesome moment.
O'BRIEN: Yes, you really do get a sense of it. You know, at 180-plus feet, it's a pretty awesome sight. Not as tall as the Saturn -5 rockets were, but when you look at it, there they are, kind of feasting their eyes on what they're about to ride into space. It truly is amazing when you're looking at something that weighs -- what is it? Is six million pound?
COLLINS: Six-and-a-half million pounds, approximately.
O'BRIEN: And it will be going in a matter of seconds. In a matter of seconds it will be going in excess of 100 miles-an-hour. I think six seconds after leaving the earth, it's going in excess of 100 miles-an-hour.
COLLINS: It will clear the tower at over 100 miles-an-hour.
O'BRIEN: Just like that, and you don't notice that speed just by looking at it.
COLLINS: Well the acceleration you feel is similar to when you step on the accurate and you're thrown back in your seat, that's the feeling that you get during the launch, but it's continuous and it'll go on like this until the booster separates.
After that, you're back to one G again with a slow continual acceleration up to eight-and-half minutes. When the main engines cuts off, you're back to three Gs. Meaning if you could hold a 10 pound weight in your hand, that would weigh 30 pounds during the latter stages of the assent.
O'BRIEN: Yes, so you're pretty much pressed against your seat.
COLLINS: You're pretty well thrown back in your seat and it's a heck of a ride.
O'BRIEN: Yes -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: Yes, Miles and Eileen, I was just wondering, you know, Eileen, you talk about the crew there, they're not necessarily in a hurry to get into the elevator as the equipment is making its way into the shuttle, but I wonder if, you know, these astronauts have to kind of pinch themselves every now and just really try to live in the moment and say wow, I'm getting ready to do this, this is something I've trained for for years and not be bogged down with the details that they've got to, you know, store in their minds just before launch.
COLLINS: Well, the way I think about it is what did I need to do now and what do I need to do next, in the very next couple of seconds. I'm not thinking ahead, what am I going to do on flight day two or what am I going to do when I land the shuttle. I'm thinking about what's next. I've got -- the commander goes in first, you strap in, you pressure -- you get your suit -- connections hooked up, you pressurize the suits, you do communication check.
Check your flight data file, check all the switches, make sure they're in the right place. You're running checks with the launch control center, so it's a pretty busy time. And then I listen in as the rest of the crew gets strapped in and it'll probably take 50 minutes to 60 minutes to get the whole crew strapped in and then you can continue with the rest of the launch countdown.
WHITFIELD: All right, Commander Eileen Collin and Miles O'Brien, we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to check in with our meteorologist, Reynolds Wolf, who will give us another view of the weather and how it may potentially impact the Discovery launch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Well, welcome back to CNN LIVE SATURDAY, you're looking at the seven member crew of Discovery, now at the mobile launch pad or platform, rather, our Miles O'Brien is along with Commander Eileen Collins there at the Kennedy Space Center.
And Miles, give us an idea of what they're doing now. We see a few high fives and shaking of hands and congratulations and we're pumped up and all that.
O'BRIEN: All that good stuff, yes. You know, it's interesting, I was just trying to make it out because it's kind of hard with that black and white, sort of, engineering camera. But these people are people they know pretty well.
This is the closeout crew and the so-called "caped-crusaders," who are members of the astronaut core who do -- get the switches thrown correctly, make sure that everything's ready for them as they go in, help them strap in, it's sort of like your own personal footman for getting on board a spacecraft. Eileen Collins, what's going on up there -- you're just taking -- good wishes being exchanged and that kind of thing?
COLLINS: Well yes, right now if you take a look you see this bridge that they're walking across. That's actually the bridge that the astronauts walk across to go through the hatch to get into the shuttle flight deck. We'll star with Steve Lindsey first, the commander goes in first, and then they alternate mid deck, flight deck crew members. You have four flight deck and three mid deck crew members. And like I mentioned, it'll take 50 to 60 minutes to get everybody in there and get their communication system checked out.
O'BRIEN: That's Steve Lindsey right there, he's the first to go. This is his second command and fourth flight.
COLLINS: Right. O'BRIEN: You may recall, real space fans might remember back on October of '98. He was a pilot on a mission that contain a certain senior citizen senator by the name of John Glenn and that happened to be his second flight. I'll never forget that one.
I don't think most of you will either. He hails from California, he's a U.S. Air Force colonel. And I know you like that as an Air Force colonel yourself, Eileen Collins. And he was involved in a mission last time in 2001 to the Space Station, he's been there, done that, in some sense.
COLLINS: And another thing about Steve Lindsey is after the Columbia accident, he was one of our return to flight astronauts, he was actually assigned to the return to flight team and really followed of the recovery period very closely and he took care of the families after the accident and we really owe a lot to Steve, he's done a lot of great work for NASA. He's just down the hallway from me. Steve and I have worked together over the past couple of years, and it's really great to see him and his crew getting ready to fly now.
O'BRIEN: Air Force Academy guy, and I know you used to teach at the Air Force Academy. I don't know if you overlapped there at all. Probably not. You weren't there at the same time.
COLLINS: No.
O'BRIEN: He is somebody, I just got to say, he helped out Evelyn Husband, the widow of the commander of the space shuttle Columbia and could not have done a more sensitive nice job helping that family through a terrible time.
COLLINS: He did, absolutely, wonderful. Very talented person. Steve and I went through test pilot school together, we were in different classes but the same time period. And Steve was actually the top graduate in his class of the test pilot school, which is really saying a lot over 25 people going through a very difficult program. You fly about 30 different aircraft that year. And Steve was really recognized back then as a very talented person, and I'm happy he came this way through the astronaut program.
O'BRIEN: Now, that beanie kind of arrangement that he's putting on there, has a lot to do with his communication gear. Explain what that...
COLLINS: Yes, the cap that you're wearing -- these are actually newly designed, we started flying these for the first time on my mission. They're a little more reliable and they're a little more comfortable, but the cap has the ear piece so you can have the good communication, not just launch control, but also your crew members. Once you get that helmet on, you can't hear anything outside the helmet, you've got to have a good com system.
WHITFIELD: Eileen, what kind of checks are they doing right now as, you know, you saw him kind of feeling all the flaps and different ripples in his suit while the other team of folks are kind of instructing? What sort of communications... COLLINS: OK, well his suit has already been checked out back in the crew quarters, but what they're doing now is putting on his harness. The harness is the device that would attach you to your parachute. Now the parachutes are in the shuttle.
He'll climb into the shuttle now, he'll lay on his back and these technicians and the astronaut support person will connect him to the parachute. The reason we fly the harness and parachute, it really goes back to the Challenger accident, we now have a potential way to, you know, survive certain types of launch accidents, but you would need a parachute.
So we're getting those checks done right now with the harness and there's other things in the harness like a fresh water supply if you ever came down in the water, that type of thing, so all that's got to be checked out. He's going to climb into the shuttle, the com system won't be checked out until he's inside, as well as the cooling system and the oxygen systems. The final checks take place once he's strapped in.
O'BRIEN: And we should point out, Fredricka, these orange suits are full pressure suits, which mean that they're sort of a self- contained mini space suit, if you will, has the capability of sustaining life a very high altitude and prior to Challenger the assumption was that, as they were thinking that the space shuttle would become sort of like an airliner, they flew in shirtsleeves, essentially, and jump suits.
And that was a big change after Challenger because the pressure suit might have helped that crew, they don't know, of course. There were all kinds of other factors that hurt that crew, but the fact is that the suit became reintroduced.
It was used on the first few shuttle flights when they were still considered test flights. And then when they went into what they called at the time "operational mode," they went back to shirt sleeves. The fact is though there's nothing operational about what we're seeing here, this is experimental flight.
COLLINS: Well, I believe every shuttle flight is truly a test flight. You're seeing Steve get into this seat right now. This a strap-in camera, that we added actually probably in the last five to seven years. We added in strap-in camera so you can see what you're going through. This is a little uncomfortable getting into your seat.
It's very difficult because the suits weight over 40 pounds. You've got to get in the seat, you've got to pull your bottom down so you can get strapped very comfortably. And your head has to be in a very specific area, so you can see what you need to see.
You have to be able to reach certain switches, so he's got to get his seat set just right, and the technician in the white suit looking over his shoulder is actually strapping in for him, and that will help him conserve some energy that he's going to need later in the launch countdown. WHITFIELD: So remarkable that we have so many camera angles that we can, you know, look at all of this as it's happening and learn so much about the complexities that go into every launch every time.
O'BRIEN: And, Fredricka, you're looking at Thomas Reiter there. He's a German astronaut who is going to be -- he won't be coming home on the Discovery. He will spend six months on the International Space Station, comes from Germany. ESA is the European Space Agency.
He spent a significant period of time in the mid-90s aboard the Space Station Mir, so is really the most experienced flyer on this mission as far as time spent in space. And he will overlap with the expedition crew -- 13 crew that's there and next crew as well, spending some time in space.
The first European to spend a lengthy stay on board the International Space Station, which is, after all, a partnership of 16 nations. There's the pilot, Mark Kelly who comes in.
The reason Thomas Reiter went in is he's on what's called the mid-deck, which is the deck below where he commander and the pilot fly, and he sits far right. So they put him in and they kind of -- it's sort of how they load an airplane these days, I guess. You know, you want to try to make it as easy as possible for everybody to get in so you don't have to climb over the other person.
WHITFIELD: And you -- oh, go ahead.
COLLINS: This is the most efficient way, as Miles was saying. You're going to alternate a flight deck crew member, mid-deck, flight deck, mid-deck, and that way we can get them in in the shortest amount of time. The goal is to get them all in, in 54 minutes.
O'BRIEN: And then Mark Kelly, one is of the only two twins in astronaut history, right? We talked to Scott earlier. Mark is from West Orange, New Jersey, the pride of West Orange, New Jersey. He is a U.S. Navy commander. He and his brother went through Navy flight school and flight test training together.
This is his second flight and he actually went to the Merchant Marine Academy, which is an interesting path. Although it has a very strong engineering program, I'm told. And, fortunately, wearing a mustache now so we can separate him from Scott which helps.
COLLINS: The way we tell the two apart is Mark has a mustache.
O'BRIEN: Mark and mustache, right.
WHITFIELD: All right, and Miles and Eileen, you talk about this -- you know, as they get ready to board an get ready for takeoff on this mission, weather certainly being a factor. Reynolds Wolf is in the Weather Center, and while we're waiting for instructions from NASA, of course, on what their forecast is and how it will affect this launch, Reynolds, what are you seeing?
(WEATHER REPORT) WHITFIELD: All right, we like that more than half glass full there, Miles and Eileen.
Well, Eileen, maybe you can explain to us why is weather so critical here? Why is it that rain would be enough to potentially damage the skin of this shuttle even with the kind of force and weight that we're talking about with this shuttle?
COLLINS: Well, there's two general reasons. The first one has to do with the launch and the second with potential emergency return. On the launch, you don't want to fly through rain, especially a thunderstorm here, because you could not only get hit by lightning but the stack itself could generate lightning. It could trigger lightning.
Now, we always prepare for an emergency return. If the shuttle lost an engine somewhere in the first, say, three to four minutes of flight, it could turn around and come back and land at Kennedy Space Center, and because of that, we need to protect a 20 mile circle around the site -- no thunderstorms in that 20 mile circle, and also lake extensions out to 30 miles, we can have no thunderstorms. And that would be the path that the shuttle would have to fly through to come back and here land at the shuttle landing facility.
So go ahead, Miles.
O'BRIEN: There's one other factor to consider. Do we have the tile over there? Do we have the little piece of tile? The shuttle is covered by 24,000 tiles. Some of them are white, some of them are black like this one. And I don't know if you can get a close-up of this. I have been actually very gentle with this tile. This is one of the tiles that you find on the belly of a space shuttle.
And look at how it's gotten easily -- I mean, it's very, very frangible would be the term. If you would go through a rainstorm at high speed, it would be like pressure washing this thing. You could cause some serious damage to the skin of the shuttle as well, so there's a lot of reasons not to fly through rain.
And so it's interesting. I mean, it is the most weather sensitive space mission you can imagine. I went to see a launch in Russia, Fredricka, years ago, one of the space station launches. They launched in pea soup fog. Could you not even see. Nobody could see the rocket.
The only way we knew it launched is we heard it and we saw the flame of the rocket through the fog. And I thought, you know, that's not a shuttle launch day by any stretch of the imagination.
As a matter of fact, we've been here, you've probably -- I don't know if you were part of this mission. We've had beautiful, beautiful days here, pristine days and the weather is not considered good in places on the other side of the Atlantic in Spain or France or Morocco.
There was a dust storm, shiraco (ph) in Morocco once that scrubbed a launch. So the point is, people like Eileen Collins have to fly this thing in for a landing if there's an issue. It's not like you just pull on this parachute and landing in some water. And so there's a lot to consider about weather on the health of the vehicle going through the clouds and the possibility of having to land somewhere.
WHITFIELD: And when you showed us that porous piece of foam, when we talk about wind, NASA doesn't want the wind to exceed 35 miles per hour. That too could impede on that flight. Is it because of that foam or is it because of something else?
O'BRIEN: Well, no, the wind concern -- the big wind concern on a day like today would be a crosswind. You want to make sure when you -- this is, after all, the biggest, heaviest glider ever devised by human beings. There's only one opportunity for people like Eileen Collins to land, and she does it right every time.
But you don't want to put her in a situation on that vehicle which is -- I mean, if you think about it, if it's getting hit by a crosswind, she would have a lot of work to keep it on the center line.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: She could do it, she could definitely do it, but it is a $2 billion spacecraft and there's no going around, and so if that wind causes a crosswind that exceeds 17 knots they do on a day like return to launch scenario. If it exceeds 17 knots that, will be a scrub but I don't think that's going to be an issue today.
WHITFIELD: We're looking at, on the right side of the screen, live pictures still of what's taking place as the strapping in is conducted, is carried out, moment to moment, crew member by crew member. Same sort of checks and balances taking place with every crew member in every seat, Eileen.
COLLINS: That's right. Every crew member will check out exactly the same. You're going to get a helmet on, you're going to do a pressure check with the suit, and then you're going to make a radio call to the NTD, which is the NASA test director here in the launch control center.
You're also going to make a call to Houston and talk with the CAPCOM. You're going to be speaking with Houston shortly after liftoff, so now you want to make sure that your com system is working. You're also going to run a thorough check on your oxygen system to make sure you have good air flow as well as the cooling system.
The astronauts wear suits -- underneath the orange suit you wear a blue suit with has small cooling tubes with cold water that flows through that. The suit can get pretty hot, so all that needs to work. We have technicians there in case you have any problems, but that will take at least seven minutes per crew member to get the check done.
WHITFIELD: Wow. Does that include sort of dry runs in the 17 (sic) minutes to make sure that, you know, that water is cooling, it's working, it's flowing? COLLINS: Well, we do have an astronaut who's not part of the crew that's out there. He comes out right after the tanking is complete. He or she will run through checks on all those systems, so we know that they're working before the crew gets there. But, again, if anything happens, we have hardware to swap out, we have technicians out there. They can help the crew.
What we don't have is if there's something happens with their suit and the suit breaks, you're out of luck because we don't have spare suits but for everything else we have backup.
WHITFIELD: All right, three hours, nine minutes and counting. We're going to take a short break, Miles, and then we can continue on the other side. Three hours, nine minutes to the launch of Shuttle Discovery, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: One by one, we're watching live pictures as each member of the Space Shuttle Discovery crew are strapped into Discovery there, with just over three hours to go before scheduled liftoff .
Our Miles O'Brien is joined by NASA commander Eileen Collins there at the Kennedy Space Center. And, Miles, all morning long, and quite frankly, all week long we've been waiting for NASA on giving a thumbs up on is this launch a go, is it going to be a scheduled launch at 3:49?
And certainly, while the large number of NASA has agreed that it is a go, we also heard from two chief engineers, top NASA officials who said it was not their recommendation that it should be launched as scheduled today at 3:49. What's the system?
O'BRIEN: Well, let's back up a little bit. I just want to -- before we get too deep into that, I do want to tell our viewers that the weather here has just turned into no go for launch. No go for launch is what we're told. It's going to be touch and go on the weather. So we'll be watching this very closely.
Now, as to the bigger picture of, the debate here in the engineering community as to whether the space shuttle is safe, it goes back to the problems that brought down Space Shuttle Columbia three- and-a-half years ago, killing the crew of seven.
Foam, insulating foam which covers that huge external fuel tank filled with hydrogen and oxygen, falling off, in the case of Columbia hitting the left, leading edge of the wing, a fatal breach in the heat shield. Sixteen days later when the crew returned, the vehicle disintegrated.
When Eileen Collins flew two-and-a-half years later on the return to flight mission after a lot of time and money spent, NASA thought it had solved the foam problem, but they did not, evidently, because when she flew, not long after liftoff, a piece of foam fell off another portion of the external fuel tank, one that they knew might be problematic but thought would be OK. Fortunately, it didn't hit anything, but that made them go back to the drawing board one more time. They took off the offending foam in this case, about 30 pounds worth, a long strip of foam along the top part of the tank but that leaves about three dozen small, little pieces that cover brackets called ice frost ramps.
Considered risky, as a matter of fact, considered probable they will fall off, and probable they could cause a catastrophic scenario. That's serious business. Those are called red items in space. And the engineers have said we're no go with those red items.
The administrator has said we're going press on with this, because when you look at the whole big pictures here of the risk, the time that's left in the space shuttle program due for retirement in 2010, the missions required to complete the space station and the fact that these little pieces, these ice frost ramps haven't kicked up, haven't in the past generated big pieces that would bring down the shuttle, he decided to go.
But nonetheless, I Eileen Collins, can you recall a debate that has been quite this open, quite this heated?
COLLINS: Well, I think it's good that, you know, people are really speaking up, the engineers are encouraged to speak up. In fact, if you don't speak up, you're not doing your job.
I do want to say though that the shuttle is safer to fly now than it has ever been. The difference is we know more now, we understand the risks more because of all the flights that we've flown. It's been 114 to date, and we're flying the 115th flight right now. We know more about the shuttle, so it's maybe -- you understand the risk a little bit more.
But on the other hand, I feel that this flight is the safest it can possibly be. I agree with the decision that we ought to try to launch today. I think that the probability that we could lose this foam and have it hit the shuttle is so small that it is worth taking the risk to continue on with the space exploration.
O'BRIEN: So let's face it, Fredricka, to put this all into perspective, there's nothing surefire or safe about flying a space shuttle, about taking something from zero at the launchpad weighing six millions pound, and eight-and-a-half minutes later, traveling at 17,500 miles an hour many, many times faster than a speeding bullet. So this is a risky business.
And what they do here, their job here as the NASA administrator Mike Griffin has put it, this is what you pay me to do, to assess that risk. So that is the decision. And the truth is, to fix those offending pieces of foam, those ice frost ramps, might incur at least another year delay on the program. And that in turn would create pressure at the other end to fly missions to get this space station done.
So that is the logic which goes behind this. And what we should point out here is even if a big piece of falls off today and even if it hits the orbiter and causes a serious breach, the crew is going to be fine. It is not a risk to them on their way to space, it's a risk on return. There are many, many options afterward.
WHITFIELD: And that's where one of the options involving potentially them waiting it out at the International Space Station and potentially another shuttle coming to pick them up would come into play?
O'BRIEN: Exactly. Exactly. Of course, the one thing that we've all pointed out and thought about here is that the shuttle that would go pick them up would be of the same design with the same foam as Discovery, Atlantis. Now, what are the odds of foam causing problems back-to-back in such a way? I suspect you would be better off putting your retirement money in the lotto when you consider those odds.
But nevertheless, that is the scenario. It does not mean that the crew is lost. It means the orbiter would be lost and it probably means the end of the program. And that's where this is getting -- where the tension rises here. As the administrator said earlier, every flight now is make or break, isn't it?
COLLINS: Well, you know, we're really talking about making a programmatic decision about risk right now, since, you know, Miles mentioned there is no risk to the shuttle crew. The risk is not to the crew because we have a way to bring them back. The risk would really be to the shuttle program, and we believe, looking at the odds and look at the probability, that this is a risk worth taking.
O'BRIEN: By the way ...
WHITFIELD: And so Eileen, as these crew members are strapped in -- sorry, Miles, to interrupt you -- but as they're strapped in, how much of the conversations of go, no-go are they privy to at this juncture?
COLLINS: Well, the crew are listening to the loops, the NTD loop, which is the NASA director, you're going to hear all the chatter that's going on. It's really kind of in NASA speak, it's a little bit hard for the general public to understand, because there's so much talk going on in acronyms.
And the crew will understand what's going on, the crew can jump in any time. The crew has to be very sharp in listening because they can be called on at any minute to run checks, but the key thing that they'll be looking at is if there's -- as long as everything is flowing fine, they'll do their specific checklist actions on a time and on a call.
But they'll be listening for the weather. They'll listening to hear if anything unusual is happening, if anything breaks. We're pretty much just -- you're working on the T minus clock right on down to T minus zero.
WHITFIELD: All right. More of the countdown of the launch, two hours, 59 minutes to go. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Just under three hours to go before the scheduled launch of Shuttle Discovery, a 12-day mission, seven crew members on board, carrying with them food, water, oxygen and other supplies eventually making it to the International Space Station.
With me, Miles O'Brien and commander Eileen Collins at the Kennedy Space Center, and in our Weather Center, meteorologist Reynolds Wolf. Weather is certainly a factor, possibly playing a part -- a serious part as to whether this will be a launch scheduled for 3:49 p.m. today.
Reynolds, what are you seeing?
(WEATHER REPORT)
WHITFIELD: Well, Miles, the folks at the Kennedy Space Center are used to the very unpredictable, sometimes, Florida weather. These thunderstorms rolling in always a dicey situation. That's why it's difficult to commit, even though they've got a 3:49 scheduled launch time with less than three hours to go. We're still not quite sure, are we?
O'BRIEN: Well, yes, let's remind people why they have to do this on the button. We're talking about rendezvousing with the space station flying overhead at 17,500 miles per hour. They essentially need to launch as it passes overhead, or they'll never catch up to it. There's not enough fuel and not enough time to do it.
And so they have to hit this precise moment like a quarterback trying to fire a pass to a receiver at that precise moment in order for the shuttle, in this case, the football, to make it to the receiver, the space station. You're looking, by the way, at Mark Kelly as he sits front right and he's getting his gloves put on, getting some help with that.
Eileen, once you get all geared up like that, you sort of feel like the Michelin man, I guess. It must be really difficult to be throwing switches and doing what you need to do. I assume -- of course, the switches are designed with that in mind, right?
COLLINS: Well, you can move the seat into different locations to access different switches, but you're right, you're strapped in there pretty tight. You're actually strapped in very tight, but you've gone through the training as to where to put the harness straps so you can reach the right switches and when is the right time to move your seat to reach different switches.
Ideally, if you're a tall astronaut with long arms, you can reach everything. But we train for this. We get into the shuttle and simulator back in Johnson Space Center. We train out here. We have one practice launch countdown before we come out for the real thing. So as hard as it is -- you cannot be claustrophobic, by the way. As hard as this is, you're trained and you're ready to do all this. O'BRIEN: All right. Fredricka, we are now two hours, 52 minutes away. We're watching the weather very closely, and just so you know, that countdown clock, there's a discrepancy, there's a couple of holds build into that countdown. That's why it's different than the time you see on the countdown to launch there.
WHITFIELD: I was going to ask you that. I thought do we have to wrong or do they have it wrong?
O'BRIEN: No, we're right, don't worry.
WHITFIELD: All right, Miles O'Brien and commander Eileen Collins, thanks so much. We're going to take a short break and we'll be back with more on the countdown to the launch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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