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CNN Live Saturday

Israel Insists Limited Incursion, Not Beginning Of Large-Scale Offensive; Injuries from Rocket Attacks in Israel; Mohammed Khalifeh Discusses Lebanon Humanitarian Crisis; Azi Israeli Discusses Israel Humanitarian Crisis

Aired July 22, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta. We want to go to our CNN International for continued coverage of the crisis in the Middle East.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: Israel's air war in Lebanon, an operation, sources say, could last weeks longer.

Long lines of displaced people and the hundreds of thousands as they flee the fighting.

And protesters line the streets over the world's capitals to demonstrate the military operations.

Hello and welcome. You're watching our continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East. I'm Becky and Anderson in Beirut. We welcome our viewers from around the world.

Well, we're covering the story for you from all around this region, from both sides of the border. These are the latest developments they hour.

Some 5,000 Israeli troops now amassed on the border with Lebanon. Israeli tanks have moved in to the south of the country. Israel insists it is a limited incursion and not the beginning of a large- scale offensive. Well, the IDF said it told Lebanese civilians to leave villages in southern Lebanon by 4:00 p.m. local time. With that deadline now passed, the Israeli military says it will target Hezbollah positions in the area.

Four more Hezbollah rockets fell across northern Israel on Saturday. The Israeli medical sources say some 12 people were wounded. Some 300,000 Lebanese and 15 Israeli civilians have been killed in the fighting so far.

Nineteen Israeli soldiers, and an unknown number's Hezbollah militants also dead while in Beirut. Transmission towers that carry cell phone and television signals were hit by Israeli rockets. One worker was killed in the attack, and another was wounded.

For foreign nationals, trapped by the fighting, mass evacuations to Cypress are continuing. Five ships carried some 4,500 evacuees to safety. The northern part of the island opened its ports and is now helping the republic of Cypress cope with the accommodations crisis. Well, diplomatic sources tell CNN that the Israeli offensive is likely to last two or three weeks more. The sources say one possible outcome, a cease-fire that would include a new international force to police southern Lebanon.

While those diplomatic sources are at work telling us that this could last at least a couple of weeks, world powers and leaders around the globe are still looking for a diplomatic solution. Of course, Condoleezza rice will make her visit to the region in the next 48 hours. She says she's not looking for a cease-fire, a temporary cease-fire, at this point. She says that would just return the region to the status quo.

President Bush himself says she pushing for lasting peace.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Secretary Rice will make it clear that resolving the crisis demand confronting the terrorists group that launched the attacks and the nations that support it. For many years, Syria has been a primary sponsor of Hezbollah, and is has helped provide Hezbollah with shipments of Iranian-made weapons.

Iran's regime has also repeated defied the international community with its ambition for nuclear weapons and its aid terrorist groups. Their actions threaten the entire Middle East and stand in the way of resolving the current crisis in bringing lasting peace to this troubled region.

ANDERSON: While a junior minister at the British foreign office was in Beirut today, I met him. He has been strongly critical of the Israeli offensive here and had a message to Condoleezza Rice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM HOWELLS, BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon: the destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people. These have not been surgical strikes.

And it's very, very difficult, I think, to understand the kind of military tactics that have been used. You know, if they're chasing Hezbollah, well, go for Hezbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation, and that's the difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Kim Howells, one of the British foreign ministers.

While the French foreign ministers has called for an immediate cease-fire after meeting with his Egyptian counterpart, and suggested an exchange of prisoners could be one way to bring an end to the crisis.

Now, Germany also says the top priority is to create conditions for a truce. The Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier is in Cairo. He'll also meet with Israeli and Palestinian leaders. Well, as we've been saying, the Israelis have now amassed a force on the border. We have our correspondents down south of the border in the northern Israeli territories there. And, indeed, we've had our correspondents out down in south Lebanon.

The Israelis some hours ago making an incursion, making what they call a pinpoint incursion, into the areas of south Lebanon, below what is known as the Litani River.

Now, Ben Wedeman has been down in the area and he joins me now.

I know the Israelis have pushed into a small village just over the border into south Lebanon. You've been in a slightly different area. Tell us what you found.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we were on the Litani River, which is 20 miles north of the Israeli boarder. What we saw, basically a huge bottleneck. The roads and bridges have been destroyed in the area. There's just one lane of a road, a dirt path that's opened. So they're hundreds of cars trying to get out of the South.

There are also cars trying to get down to the South to get their relatives, people trying to get their relatives out. So, it's a real mess down there and it's a bottleneck that really they can't get through.

ANDERSON: We're talking about some 10 percent of the Lebanese population living in that area, 400,000 people, nearly half-a-million people, trying to get out, being told by the Israelis that they should leave. Because effectively, the Israelis will possibly mount a full ground invasion in order to create what they perceive as a buffer zone.

Now, you're suggesting, most people are finding it extremely difficult to get out. It is extremely dangerous.

WEDEMAN: Many people have already left. When you drive around the southern part of Lebanon you go through villages that are basically deserted, cities that are deserted. But there's still a lot of people left. There are people in remote towns and villages, can't get out because the bridges have been blown, the roads have been blown. Other people just don't want to leave.

ANDERSON: We know that the Israelis have now pushed over the border into a smaller area just north of the Israeli border.

Tell us what you know about that area.

WEDEMAN: That's a remote area. It's far away. The roads aren't very good, many have already been blasted. And much of the population in that area was really the first to leave when this began 11 days ago, following the capture of the two Israeli soldiers. So, by and large, this civilian population has, where possible, gotten out of there. It's right on the border. So those people realized fairly early that that's not a good place to stay. ANDERSON: OK. Ben Wedeman. He just arrived back from the south of the country, where we know there is the possibility that the Israelis may now push the border and look at some sort of full-blown ground invasion.

Paula Newton, I know, is in northern Israel, one of our correspondents, hoping that she will join us at some point in this next half hour.

We are, apologies for you, taking some satellite hits. You can understand that we are having major difficulties, particularly as the Israelis have taken out some communications network close to where we are here in Beirut. So, apologies if you are finding it slightly difficult to watch.

Let's get back to Paula Newton, who is on the northern Israeli border. Paula, tell us what you know.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We were in Avivim today in Israel, we could see Mineras (ph), which is a Lebanese town, and it was getting bombarded, shelled, by Israeli artillery as well, we understand, some strikes from the air.

What is going on there, and what Israeli commanders say, is that when they try and go in and cleanse these villages of that Hezbollah infrastructure, they will continue to hold those villages. We saw them at work with armored bulldozers, APCs, and tanks.

The problem is they are still encountering Hezbollah resistance. We saw a fierce firefight there in the last couple of days, four Israeli soldiers died and several injured. Today was a little bit more quiet. We only one Israeli soldier lightly wounded by machine gun fire.

But two Katyushas did land in the area, and it shows that Hezbollah is really going to go in and engage the Israelis when they try and go into southern Lebanon. But we had an Israeli commander say that they will continue to have these pinpoint attacks in southern Lebanon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. GAL HIRSCH, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: The most important thing is that, you can see, that we control this village, actually, right now, and we will keep attacking, because we don't have any other choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You control this village but not all the -- there's more shelling going on?

HIRSCH: There are many, many villages and cities in Lebanon and we do not intend to occupy Lebanon. It's not our interest, we don't want to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ANDERSON: Becky, we saw that plan in action today, and they continue to say that a ground invasion is not in the cards yet, and they have no intention of invading and occupying southern Lebanon. That, in general, what they want, in the end, to make sure that the Lebanese army is enforcing that buffer zone there.

Nonetheless, those pinpoint attacks continue. That engagement, that fight with Hezbollah continues. And so do the injuries.

And I have to add another point here. We are at 117 Katyusha rockets and counting landing in northern Israel. A very busy day for those today -- Becky?

ANDERSON: Just a question for you. You've been speaking to the Israeli Defense Forces, and perhaps some of these reservists who are now amassed at the border with some 5,000 troops we're told now, at the border. We heard talk yesterday from the president of Lebanon and the defense minister that, effectively, if Israel were prepared to cross the border, that Lebanon would send in its own troops. What is the reaction from the Israeli Defense Force to those sort of words? That sort of rhetoric?

NEWTON: From the commander on down to the lowest ranking troop, soldier on the ground here from infantry, Becky, it is that our beef is not with the Lebanese army. That they want the Lebanese army to be in southern Lebanon and make sure that Hezbollah is no longer in control.

No mater what they say, though, Becky, you know that they are setting themselves up for really a tough fight in southern Lebanon if they decide that they are going to go in with a full ground force. Up to now, though, you have to make this clear, that the Lebanese army is not in southern Lebanon, and the only resistance they're getting from the villages is from Hezbollah -- Becky?

ANDERSON: Paula Newton is on the northern Israeli border.

Let's skip back into Lebanon, then, down to the south. About an hour-and- a-half, under normal conditions, from Beirut, the town of Tyre, considered by the Israelis as a Hezbollah stronghold -- you can't get there in an hour-and-a- half now, it takes hours to get down there -- the Israelis have taken out most of the infrastructure, the roads and the bridges, in order to get there.

Karl Penhaul been there for some days now, and he joins us from there at this hour by phone call.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Interesting to hear Paula reporting from the other side the border, there, and suggesting that the Lebanese army and that the Israeli forces have no beef with the Lebanese army. They may not exactly be how members of the Lebanese army see it. In fact, here in southern Lebanon, there are a number of barracks of the Lebanese army and today we talked to one or two soldiers. Very privately, because they're not allowed to talk publicly to the media. But, I talked to a sergeant who recently had returned, in fact, from the United States, from a session of infantry training in the United States, and he said that both he and the rest of his men had been given orders that, if Israel does invade with its troops, then their orders are to stand and fight. And that is the Lebanese army, not Hezbollah.

Hezbollah are very obviously standing and fighting in the course of the day. We've seen a number of missiles, or heard, at least, a number of missiles being launched by Hezbollah in the fields just to the south of Tyre.

Also as well, Becky, in this area, there are a number of Palestinian communities here. Palestinian who have maybe fled since the creation of Israel right back in 1948. But, even those communities have some presence of the PLO Fatah wing. And armed member there have also told us today that if the Israeli troops try and enter their community, they will also fight to try and defend their communities -- Becky?

ANDERSON: I just want to get a little bit more from you on what it is these Lebanese soldiers are saying. Because there is talk here that, effectively, if the Lebanese army were to defend its country, then of course, it would be on the command of the government and the prime minister from here. If they were sent, there is a possibility of a split, and it's something like 6,000 of the Shia soldiers might split and effectively fight for Hezbollah.

There's only talk at present. There are some 60,000 troops, of course in the army. Can you gauge whether any of those that you were speaking to, this is after all an area that you're in which is known to be a Hezbollah stronghold, can you gauge whether any of those soldiers would be prepared to effectively split from the Lebanese army if it was defending itself and work alongside Hezbollah? This is a really big issue at the moment.

PENHAUL: Exactly. It is a big issue, which is why it was very interesting to talk to these soldiers. There was no suggestion that they would split from the military, from the Lebanese army, to go and fight under Hezbollah's orders. What they said was that they had orders from their hierarchy, from their chain of command, that if Israeli troops came across the border, then that would be an invasion, and that their order was to defend Lebanon, to defend their country.

Now, you're right, there has been a political debate as to who could declare a state of war, and we've seen comments from president Emile Lahoud, and also some suggestion there it would have to be the parliament that issued some declaration of war. But, what the soldiers seem to suggest, that prior to any declaration of war, their orders are simply to defend the country.

And I said to one soldier, I said to a Sergeant, in fact, I said "So what are you going to do? Fight Israelis with Israeli tanks with guns?" And he laughed. He said, "No. We got RPGs back there -- rocket propelled grenades." He says "We'll stand here, and we'll fire rocket propelled grenades at them" -- -- Becky. ANDERSON: Interesting stuff, all right. Well, that's Karl Penhaul on the phone from Tyre, one of the cities which has suffered catastrophic devastation by the Israeli strikes down close to the boarder, about 16, 17 kilometers from Lebanon here.

Let's go back down south, once again, into northern Israel. Fionnuala Sweeney is in Haifa and joins us from there -- Fionnuala?

FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Becky, we are hearing that there are a number of injuries from a barrage of rocket attacks across northern Israel this evening. Two people were injured in the town of Sefat, and then ten others were injured in a rocket attack on the towns of Nasiriyah and Kamayel (ph), which are about 20 minutes away from Haifa, here.

Indeed, in Haifa, there have been something like nine air raid siren warnings throughout the day. And at one point, seven Katyusha rockets landed in an open space. There were no injuries, but its a very clear indication that Hezbollah, despite being hammered by the Israeli military on the Lebanese-Israeli border, and indeed in southern Lebanon, have still got the capability of striking in Haifa and across northern Israel. So, Haifa and, indeed, northern Israel remaining very tense this evening.

ANDERSON: Fionnuala, just give us a sense of the scale and size of Haifa -- I know we talked about this before, but I want our viewers to get some sort of indication of the size of the town, and just a sense of fear that there now must be.

SWEENEY: Well, Haifa is a beautiful city, it's about 20 minutes south of the Lebanese border, and it sits on the sea of, the Mediterranean, and there is a bay of Haifa on which many people holiday-make. And, obviously, in the height of summer use the beaches.

Now, there were a few people on the beaches today, compared to yesterday, when they were pretty much deserted. But, what has been happening here over the last 11 days of this conflict, is that there have been consistent and sustained rocket attacks on this city. Eight people were killed in a rocket attack last Sunday.

And then there was a lull for a couple of days, perhaps lulling people into a false sense of security. And then just yesterday, it all kind of kicked off again which a number of air raid warning sirens immediately followed by several rounds of Katyusha rockets, in which several people were injured, two or three injured critically.

It is mainly a secular town. Usually towns in Israel go quiet at the weekends, for the Jewish Sabbath, but not as much so as one might expect in Jerusalem, which goes really very quite quiet during the weekend, the Sabbath weekend.

So, people would have normally been expected to have been out here, out and about on Friday and most of Saturday. But even now as the sun has set and you look over the city and look down towards where people would normally be congregating in the city, there is very, very little movement.

And further north in Nasiriyah, which has sustained some ten injures from a rocket attack this evening. We were there just a couple days ago, and the town was absolutely deadly quiet. There was nobody around, except for the odd dog or cat on the street, and it really had a very eerie feel tab as people stayed in their homes, and, occasionally when the air raid sirens went off, went into their reinforced rooms that every Israeli has in every building here -- Becky?

ANDERSON: Fionnuala Sweeney is in Haifa.

We're going to take a very short break. After that, we're talk more with the Lebanese Health Minister about the growing humanitarian crisis in his country. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcomes back. You're watching our ongoing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East. I'm Becky Anderson in Beirut.

You are going to see a few little technical glitches as we move through this next ten minutes or so. We are taking a few satellite hits. This is a situation after the Israelis, knocked out some of the communications systems just around the north of Beirut today.

So, a few little glitches, but stay with us while we address the humanitarian crisis, the growing humanitarian crisis, on both sides of the border. We're going to start in Lebanon, though.

I'm joined by Mohammed Khalifeh, who is the Lebanese Health Minister. Sir, something like more than half a million displaced now. We know more than 325 civilians killed, thousands have been injured. Give us your assessment as it stands of the situation in Lebanon.

MOHAMMED KHALIFEH, LEBANESE HEALTH MINISTER: Well, the situation is very bad and heading toward very big, tragic events. As you said, now, I was just in the cabinet. The number of people which has been displaced is getting more than 750,000. And imagine in a small country, who is going to cater to them in terms of nutrition, health, food supply, and hygiene.

On top of that, we managed today, as we have a map here. We have done a mass burial for more than 80 people. Most of them, as you know, in families, one-third are children.

The number of wounded, casualties, is more than 1,500. 1,200 still in the hospitals. Again, one-third of them children are being, having amputee and laceration of their eyes and such things.

ANDERSON: Where's the worst problem for you? As far as those injured and displaced. In the south or ...

(CROSSTALK)

KHALIFEH: Well, down in the south and, as you noticed, it's very difficult to get in supplies here. Food, drugs, medicines, as well as now the hospitals are running out of fuel for energy, because they could generate their only power.

ANDERSON: All right. We know the U.N. and various other organizations are coming in here with what they cal assessment teams. This is too little too late at this point, isn't it?

KHALIFEH: I fully agree with you, it's too little, it's too late. How come you can assess somebody who sustained multiple shrapnel, very bad injuries? They are dead by the time. I am sure, and have said several times, if such things go ahead for a couple weeks or for ten days, I am sure that situation will be very bad. A cease-fire is a must.

ANDERSON: Talk to me about your own family, if you will. Because I know that many are in the south, aren't they? How worried are you?

KHALIFEH: Yes, I am worried. My brother is a mayor, he refused to leave his constituency, as well as my mom. They are sitting there, and they both want to leave. They will face the fate as the other people in the area.

ANDERSON: When you say they will face their fate, are they resigned to the fact they may not get out of the area?

KHALIFEH: Yes, sure, sure. If things will go this direction with such aggression and violence and bombarding residential areas with heavy artillery, with war ships, I am sure things will be very bad.

ANDERSON: Talk about the health situation. Are you effectively saying Lebanon can't cope?

KHALIFEH: Yes. Actually, the hospital and health system is not only to handle the war casualties, but, mind you, we are also treating very sick patients. More than 3,000 people that they have chronic illnesses. They have placed, and we have to offer them a lot of services.

ANDERSON: Let me just ask you, have the Israelis hit the hospitals here? Those are the reports.

KHALIFEH: Our hospitals here, some of them, the have been damaged badly. As you know, in the southern suburbs, three hospitals, which they do cater for more than 500 people there, shut by now. And this is, again, a very big tragic event.

ANDERSON: All right, we're going to leave it there, so we thank you very much, indeed, for joining us. Safety to your family.

KHALIFEH: Thank you very much.

ANDERSON: All right, let's now address the situation on the other side of the border. Things aren't easy anywhere at present, so you can imagine. We've got the Israeli health minister joining us now, Azi Israeli.

Sir, I hope you can hear me. Again, your assessment of the situation, where you stand, if you will?

AZI ISRAELI, ISRAELI MINISTRY OF HEALTH: Yes. In the Northern part of Israel, there are many attacks on civilians. The attack are targeted at civilians, and we have more than 1,000 casualties. Most of them are with acute stress, but some of them are unfortunately killed, and some are very severely injured.

We are very sad about it, and we hope that all these targeted attacks against civilians will be stopped by the Hezbollah immediately.

ANDERSON: Well, you understand, I guess that the Hezbollah will say, effectively, that these attacks won't stop until soldiers are returned, until the Israeli troops are out of the border. Let's just address the political situation as it stands at present, if will you, because you are a cabinet minister.

The Israelis pushing across the border today into south Lebanon. I know you've had wounded on your side. There are many, many wounded on this side of the border as well. Can you tell us anything more about that operation?

ISRAELI: Yes, but first of all I want to correct you, that I'm not the health minister. I'm the director general of the administer of affairs, so I'm not a politician. This is one thing.

Number two, you know that we are trying to do, our soldiers are trying to avoid any attacks on civilians, and they're doing their utmost, that the number of casualties among civilians and, in any event, will be as few as possible.

Unfortunately, the Hezbollah is putting the missiles and putting their Katyushas among the civilians, the Lebanese, and we have nothing against the Lebanese, and we would love to leave in peace with them. And unfortunately, they are attacking directly civilians in the northern part of Israel. As a matter of fact, today, we admitted...

ANDERSON: All right, let talk about, let me talk about the health system, if we will. Let me just ask you, we've got a terrible delay on this line. Let me just ask you, how is your health infrastructure coping with the casualties that you have had on your side of the border?

ISRAELI: All our hospitals are trained to deal with mass casualties. They have many drills to deal with it, both for conventional and unconventional attacks. And one hospital in the western Galilee is operating in an underground facility mode. And this is very unique in our area. All the other hospitals are working as in an emergency. They have sent off all the regular patients, and we are prepared to deal with the victims of the attacks.

ANDERSON: OK. Can you just, if will you, give us an assessment of the casualty figures to date in Israel? ISRAELI: All together, until today, including today, there were more than 1,200 casualties in Israel, including some that are dead, and some in a very severe way, condition. In the hospitals now there are approximately 80 casualties still in the hospitals, and we hope that this number will go down.

You know, that today we admitted a lady from southern Lebanon to one of our hospitals, because we are humanitarian and we are, the moment that she said she's in need, we admitted her to one of our hospitals, and we give her the best care that we can.

ANDERSON: OK. So, we're going to have to leave you there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us. Out of Israel there, from the ministry of health in Israel.

We thank our viewers around the world for watching this continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East. I'm Becky Anderson in Beirut.

We're going to take this short break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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