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CNN Live Saturday

Americans Weighing In On Middle East Crisis and President Bush's Response; Israel's Pinpoint Operation has Widened in Lebanon; Some Supporters Don't Consider Hezbollah A Terrorist Organization; Potential Humanitarian Crisis

Aired July 22, 2006 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Here's what we know right now.
What Israel calls its pinpoint operation against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon has widened. Tanks and more troops crossed the border earlier today. On both sides of the border, more attacks, as Israel launched new air strikes on Hezbollah targets. More rockets slammed into northern Israel.

On the diplomatic front, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says she will search for a sustainable end to the violence as she heads to the region tomorrow.

Americans are weighing in on the Middle East crisis and on President Bush's response.

A closer look at what the latest polls are showing from our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: (voice-over): Do Americans want the United States to play an active role in trying to resolve the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah? The answer is clear -- no. The public wants to stay out of it.

What about sending U.S. troops as part of an international peacekeeping force? That sounds better, but the public is still divided -- and worried.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The world must deal with Hezbollah, with Syria and to continue to work to isolate Iran.

SCHNEIDER: Only 38 percent of the public approves of the way President Bush is handling the Israeli-Hezbollah crisis.

Do Americans believe Israel has gone too far in its response? No. Fewer than an third of Americans feel that way. Nearly half say Israel's response has been about right or hasn't gone far enough.

Does the public think Israel should continue to take military action until Hezbollah can no longer launch attacks or seek a cease- fire as soon as possible? They are split, by party, in fact. Most Republicans say Israel should continue to attack until the threat is eliminated. Most Democrats want a cease-fire.

What about the evacuation of Americans in Lebanon? Fifty-three percent think the government is handling it well. Some critics have made a comparison to another evacuation.

REP. JOHN DINGELL (D), MICHIGAN: It seems to manifest some of the same things that we saw when this administration handled Katrina.

SCHNEIDER: But the public sees a big difference. Last September, 63 percent thought the Katrina evacuation was handled poorly. Only 29 percent feel that way about the Lebanon evacuation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Fifty-seven percent of Americans say that they sympathize with Israel in this conflict. Only 4 percent say they sympathize with Hezbollah, although a lot of Americans, 39 percent, don't express sympathy with either side over the other -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: So, bottom line, Bill, lots of divisions all the way around.

How might this conflict and the U.S. involvement, or lack thereof, affect U.S. politics?

SCHNEIDER: Yes, well that's a very big question and it very much depends on which war, the war in Lebanon or the war in Iraq, is at the top of the agenda. The polling shows that Iraq is the Democrats' issue. People prefer Democrats when they are asked which party would handle the war in Iraq better.

But the war on terror is the Republicans' issue. Who would handle terrorism better? People prefer the Republicans. And the war between Israel and Lebanon is a war against radical Islamists. That's the same enemy that America faces in the war on terror.

WHITFIELD: Now, what about divisions in the Arab world? Are we seeing that, too?

SCHNEIDER: We are seeing some criticism of Hezbollah. A lot of Arabs, the Arab League, for instance, are critical of the fact that the anti-Israel cause may be hijacked by Shiites, by Islamic radicals who are backed by Iran. Iran is not an Arab country and there is some resentment that the anti-Israel cause is being picked up by people that a lot of Arab governments don't support.

And they're very worried. And so is Israel and the United States. Because if radical Islamists take over this cause, there's really no way to negotiate and there's no possibility of a land for peace deal.

WHITFIELD: And is that what's underscoring why this conflict seems to be so different, or, at least, it's showing some hallmarks of a very different Middle East conflict?

SCHNEIDER: Yes. This is a conflict with Islamic radicals and Israel. Israel is not fighting simply Palestinian nationalists like the PLO or other Arab countries. So that it's a far more threatening conflict for both Israel and the United States.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And so is that why there have -- there is this world pressure, then, on the U.S. to perhaps do a little bit more than just talking with Israel, that it has to branch out and possibly, for once, talk to Syria, for starters?

SCHNEIDER: Well, a lot of people think that -- and there's pretty good evidence -- that Syria and Iran are part of this. It's a very complicated situation because the direct parties to the conflict -- Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah -- the two radical Islamist groups are not countries. It's very hard to talk about dealing with them. They're not countries with regular armies.

So they're backed by Syria and Iran. But the United States does not have regular relations with Syria and Iran.

WHITFIELD: Right.

SCHNEIDER: So when Condoleezza Rice is going to the Middle East, she's not going to Syria. She's not going to Iran. She doesn't deal with Hezbollah and Hamas, who are terrorist groups. So she has to deal with the countries that we talk to. But they're not really direct parties to this conflict.

WHITFIELD: Interesting.

All right, Bill Schneider, thanks so much.

And much more to come on the crisis in the Middle East, including Nic Robertson's in-depth look at Hezbollah. He's running through the streets of Beirut after a recent attack -- our Nic Robertson is -- along with others. The U.S. calls Hezbollah a terrorist group. But millions support the organization. Why?

That story next.

Plus, CNN's International Desk is keeping a close watch on all the latest developments in the conflict, including the attacks on the communications towers in Lebanon.

We'll keep you up to date as the events happen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello once again.

I'm Randi Kaye at CNN's International Desk in Atlanta.

We are looking at -- monitoring all the feeds coming in from the Middle East.

We wanted to show you some new pictures just coming in from APTN. You will be looking at Israeli rocket fire in Southern Lebanon. This is in the area of Tyre. Tyre, Lebanon, we are learning from APTN that Israeli rocket fire is underway there. You can see that plume of smoke. We've seen a lot of that throughout the day as we've been monitoring the feeds coming into the CNN International Desk.

That is the breaking news out of Tyre, Lebanon.

We also want to show you some pictures coming to us from Nahariya. Nahariya and Karmiel are both in northern Israel, not far from Haifa, not far from the border with Lebanon.

These are pictures of an attack by Hezbollah rockets, Katyusha rockets, on these two Israeli towns. We're being told by the Israeli Ambulance Service that there were two injured and 10 suffering shock in that area.

And as you may recall, Nahariya has been the target of numerous attacks in the last week. And this one certainly appearing to be a massive one.

We also want to let you know, we've been showing you pictures throughout the day of an area called Maroun-al-Ras. This is a border village in Lebanon just a few kilometers away from the Israeli town of Avivim. And we are now getting word from the Associated Press -- we knew that Israeli tanks had rolled into that area earlier and we know now, from the Associated Press -- we have not been able to independently confirm this -- that Hezbollah, the militant group there -- has claimed that its guerrillas have destroyed three of the Israeli tanks and caused casualties among Israelis in that area of Maroun-al- Ras.

So we are continuing to monitor that situation.

We also want to tell you about some word that we're getting from our Christiane Amanpour. We have a lot of paperwork here, so let me just find that one for you. Christiane Amanpour, our chief international correspondent, has been getting some information on just how long this military conflict is going to last. That's been a question for a lot of us here.

And it turns out that that she's getting word from her sources in Israel that it could last a few more weeks before we see a cease-fire.

Now, the headline out of Christiane's information really is that Israel is not expecting a full scale ground invasion. They plan to -- Israel plans to get into Lebanon, accomplish what it needs to do, pinpoint their targets, knock out the Hezbollah strongholds, get these guerrillas out of there and then move out.

So the headline is that not expecting a full scale ground invasion -- Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, Randi Kaye, thanks so much for that update.

A lot of moving parts there on several fronts, from both the Lebanese side, as well as the Israeli side. A number of attacks and now more information on the consequences of those attacks.

Well, the United States considers Hezbollah a terrorist organization. But does that mean everyone who supports the group endorses terrorism?

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Where are we going now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now we are moving to where Israeli jet fighters bombed what it called Hezbollah headquarters.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): These are Beirut's southern suburbs, predominantly Shiite and a Hezbollah stronghold. These days, it's a dangerous place and this Hezbollah spokesman is clearly rattled by the prospect of more Israeli bombs.

ROBERTSON: How dangerous is it in this area at the moment?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is very, very dangerous. It's -- we are now the most dangerous place in the most dangerous moment.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Israeli warplanes have hit this area hard because it's the political capital of Hezbollah, a state within a state. Its influence is everywhere. Before the bombing began, you could find Hezbollah hospitals, schools and charities supporting Lebanon's traditionally poor and dispossessed Shiite community.

MALIKAH SROOR, HEZBOLLAH SUPPORTER: I said to Hezbollah, god bless you.

ROBERTSON: For Malikah Sroor and her family, Hezbollah provides water when no one else can or will. Even now, when so many are displaced.

M. SROOR: My sister was heard, told, go to bring water from there. There is cans, very big cans. They put water in it, in all Lebanon.

ROBERTSON: In her old neighborhood near Beirut's airport, the one she fled after Israel began bombing and the one she hopes to return to, Hezbollah picked up the garbage, paid for medical care and helped run-the schools. Stepping in and overshadowing the Lebanese government.

M. SROOR: Hezbollah is doing all the things for the people.

ROBERTSON: On a practical level, Hezbollah paid half the cost for her daughter's Zeinab's school.

And Zeinab says that was just the beginning of the help.

ZEINAB SROOR, DAUGHTER: If something is broken in my school, Hezbollah helps them to make it -- to correct it again.

ROBERTSON: Now, Zeinab is on her way to becoming the next generation of Hezbollah.

Z. SROOR: I hope that to, when I be big and adult, I want to be a doctor for Hezbollah. If someone have a hurt in his arms, I will -- I will help him.

ROBERTSON: Both mother and daughter say they appreciate all that Hezbollah does for them. But the most important thing to them is still the resistance.

Z. SROOR: I like them more when they kill the Israelis from our land because this land is ours, us only.

M. SROOR: They mean all my life, all my life to family, to my family and to my husband, to my sisters, to all the world.

ROBERTSON: And in return for all that it's given her, Hezbollah has won Malikah's unconditional support.

When the family is finally able to return to their home, they believe that Hezbollah will help them rebuild.

M. SROOR: They promised that they will help the people to continue their life again.

ROBERTSON: Hezbollah has a track record of doing just that. In 1996, after an Israeli military assault destroyed numerous buildings in Southern Lebanon, Hezbollah was quick to help its supporters rebuild.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hezbollah has a very interesting outfit called the Jihad Construction Company. They load their trucks with windows and all kinds of construction equipment and all these young guys with their T-shirts saying jihad is now here, they will go from house to house and offer the people do you want us to fix your windows? Do you want us to fix your doors?

ROBERTSON: Even now, as its buildings are being destroyed, Hezbollah is organizing refugees and relief services, proof its ability to provide social service has survived.

(on camera): Wow! There's a lot of damage here.

(voice-over): The rebuilding of South Beirut won't come until the bombs stop falling. But when it does, Hezbollah will be there for its followers, as it has so many times before. For now, it's more about surviving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our action is always reaction. It's never an action.

ROBERTSON (on camera): But they say you are killing civilians.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now there's jet fighters. We have to move. ROBERTSON: You're really worried about another strike here right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course. Of course.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Nic Robertson there reporting.

Tonight, Anderson Cooper hosts an all new "CNN PRESENTS," taking an in-depth look inside Hezbollah.

That's tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WHITFIELD: And take a look at this. Live pictures right now in the coastal city of Tyre, Lebanon, which is now taking on Israeli strikes.

Our Karl Penhaul is in the area.

He's on the phone with us now -- Karl, what's happening?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredericka, these Israeli warplanes flew over now about five minutes ago. And from what we heard and saw from our position, we saw at least three bombs being dropped on what I can best describe as the southern suburb of Tyre. It's an area about four miles actually south of the city limits.

It looked to me that those bombs actually fell in some fields from where, during the course of the afternoon, we had heard on at least three occasions the thud of what we presume were Hezbollah missiles being fired out of there and on toward Israel.

At this stage, though, that area, for the last four or five days, has been coming under this kind of fire consistently from Israeli warplanes around the clock and it is simply too dangerous to approach. And so at this stage, we have no immediate reports on any casualty figures or any damage from those bombing raids -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And, so, Karl, we know that leading up to today, Israeli air forces had been dropping leaflets along the Southern Lebanon border to alert people of this kind of activity that might ensue, etc.

Do you know whether that has been at all instructive in getting people to leave these areas?

PENHAUL: Well, while it is true that the Israelis have been dropping pamphlets asking civilians to leave, the Israelis, for the last 10 days on this area and throughout Southern Lebanon, have been dropping bombs, 500-pound bombs. And that has been the biggest incentive for the civilians around here to leave.

The city of Tyre normally houses about 80,000 people, according to the city mayor. And he told me this morning that half the population has left. And so that means Tyre's population is down to about 40,000.

What he also says is that about 30,000 people from some of the smaller villages across southern Lebanon, down toward the Israeli border have left their homes and headed toward Tyre, hoping to find sanctuary in Tyre. And so although part of the population has moved out, another huge section of population has moved in. And so if there are wider air strikes on other parts of the city, then the civilian casualties could be even higher than they are already -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And so, Karl, describe for me how Tyre has been able to handle the influx of the 30,000 or so from other border communities, while many of the other residents in Tyre have left.

PENHAUL: There's been very little planning in this. What it seems to be, because there are such large extended families in this part of Southern Lebanon, what it seems that has happened is that as families move in from the villages, they have either taken refuge with other family members who may be living here in Tyre city or they've gone to live in schools.

Some of them, we hear, have been living in hospitals, too. And others have just looked for empty buildings, particularly those apartment buildings that have basements, and just moved in there with mattresses and what food they can gather.

But again, talking to the city mayor this morning, he says food is starting to run-low. So there's a shortage of basic supplies such as bottled water, bread and some kind of protein, either meat or cheese -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And, Karl, since the Israeli Defense Forces have said they have been primarily trying to target Hezbollah arsenal or bunkers or places where they're housing weaponry, is it your understanding that Tyre in any way fits that bill?

PENHAUL: The understanding that I have from residents is that they don't believe those explanations from the Israeli Defense Forces for one minute. That because yesterday I was down at a massive burial for 87 civilians that had been killed so far in these bombing strikes. And I've also spent a day in one of the hospitals here. And we saw civilians being brought in minute by minute with horrendous shrapnel wounds.

One man, for example, had his left leg practically severed by shrapnel. Some shrapnel also went into his brain. Within 10 minutes of coming into the hospital, he was dead on the gurney. There was a 13-year-old girl whose body was pockmarked with shrapnel.

So to then go and tell them that the Israeli Defense Forces are targeting Hezbollah positions, they simply don't believe it.

That said, what we saw now about 10 minutes ago, the strikes about three or four miles south from here, as I say, during the day we have heard what we presume are Hezbollah missiles leaving from that area headed toward Israel -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And, so, Karl, we heard within the past 24 hours U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan saying that the world is looking at a potential humanitarian crisis.

Given what you described about the types of injuries that some of the people have sustained there and the evacuation of many others, talk to me about how hospitals or doctors, any kind of aid organizations, are able to treat those who have stayed behind, those who may have been injured.

PENHAUL: It really is just by luck at this stage, Fredericka.

There is no city-wide plan. As far as I can ascertain, the only one of the city officials that remains is the mayor himself. And he stayed on with his son. A lot of the other city officials have left. The hospitals that we talked to are doing their best. But, of course, at this stage they're running short of basic medical supplies. One doctor told me that they needed antibiotics.

They needed bandages. They needed equipment. They really just were not used in this part of Lebanon, which has of late been a tourist resort, they're not used to this being a battlefield and they're not used to treating combat injuries here.

They're just doing the best they can, trying to get by. Now, yes, the International Committee of the Red Cross did come in here two days ago with two truckloads of aid. And the organizer of the convoy there told me that he had supplies for 500 people. Well, of course, they're doing an initial assessment. But as you can imagine, the humanitarian crisis is going to be way, way larger than that kind of scale. And so they'll have to look at trying to secure some way of getting supplies down from Beirut to Tyre.

But the roads in large sections between here and Beirut are now completely bombed out, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: So, Karl, one more time, just to recap for those viewers who just may now be joining us, you're reporting that Israeli warplanes dropped what appear to be three bombs in the southern suburb of Tyre, Lebanon there in Southern Lebanon.

Those bombs possibly landing in fields. Yet, at the same time, you, Karl, reporting that there are injuries, people who are -- people who have decided to stay in that town of what used to be 80,000 people. There are some injuries that have been sustained.

Karl, is it your feeling that people there expected that Tyre would be a target of this kind of attack?

PENHAUL: Interestingly enough, I was talking to a group of Palestinians that I've met today. They certainly believed that Tyre would be in the eye of the storm because they said in 1982, when Israel invaded Lebanon before, that Israeli troops came through Tyre. In fact, they stayed in this region up until around 1985, although by that stage they had pulled back from Beirut itself. And so both that community and other members of Tyre's community are used to that kind of thing. But they say, they say that they are very fearful of what will happen if Israel does invade, although there are groups of people here, both civilians and also the Lebanese Army, interestingly enough, that say they do have guns and they will fight if the Israelis invade their country -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Karl Penhaul, thanks so much.

And continue to be safe there in Tyre, Lebanon, as those Israeli warplanes have just recently dropped bombs.

Now, we're going to head east, exactly parallel there along the Syrian-Lebanese border town of Metulah.

And that's where we find our Paula Newton there.

Earlier, Paula, we talked about how you were hearing activity there and had even tried to take cover.

What is the latest now?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's -- the latest now is 116 Katyusha rockets landing in northern Israel and counting. Most recently, two injured in Safed, which is -- it's fairly -- it's a deep -- it's deep into Israel, maybe 15 -- as much as 15 miles. And two people injured there.

It has been a bit of a frantic day here in northern Israel. Many people taking cover, including ourselves. We were right next to an Israeli Army position. And at that point, two Katyushas fell. At that same location, we understand that one Israeli soldier was injured by machine gun-fire coming from Hezbollah.

We were in a location, Maroun-al-Ras, which is a Lebanese town that continued to get heavy bombardment today. But it is the Israeli foothold in Lebanon. We do understand that there is no ground invasion that is imminent, that the Israeli government is prepared, but still has yet to make a decision on that.

But what they are trying to do is once they seize these kinds of villages, is to hold them. They want to make sure that they get a buffer zone of at least a half a mile into Southern Lebanon to at least be able to get on the ground and see what kind of bunkers Hezbollah has created there and continue to wipe them out.

But it has been a very dangerous day. We've been all over these roads. So have some other CNN crews. And everywhere we stop, we see fires from new Katyushas landing in northern Israel -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And, so, Paula, are the forces there giving you any indication about how difficult it is to actually locate these bunkers that they want to target?

NEWTON: Very difficult. They've expressed to us that even after hitting a target two and three times from the air, they then go and investigate on foot and they find something that they say they never knew was there and that they never would have been able to pinpoint and hit from the air.

So what they've gone in is they've gone -- had reconnaissance teams going in. They've had pinpoint operations. They put that information back to the Air Force. And if the Air Force can go back in and strike it by air, they do.

What is clear here is that now several hours ago, a deadline passed for the Southern Lebanese people to evacuate yet again.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right...

NEWTON: We are expecting more air strikes.

WHITFIELD: All right, Paula, thanks so much from Metulah, Lebanon.

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