Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Saturday

Israel Beefs up Aerial and Ground Assaults on Lebanon; Tour de France Champ Landis Test Positive in 2nd Doping Test; U.S., France Agree on U.N. Security Council Resolution

Aired August 05, 2006 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Our top stories now, a new diplomatic plan aimed at ending the fighting in the Middle East is heading to the U.N. Security Council. The United States and France agreed to a draft resolution earlier today. The full Council would have to approve the resolution. British Prime Minister Tony Blair calls it a first step, with much work still to be done.
Diplomatic efforts are doing nothing to stop the fighting right now. A key target today for Israeli forces, the Lebanese port city of Tyre. Along with more air strikes, Israeli commandos have been battling Hezbollah fighters in Tyre. In northern Israel, more rocket attacks today. At least three deaths are reported.

Cuban President Fidel Castro is apparently on the mend. The country's vice president says Castro is in satisfactory condition following stomach surgery. Government sources on the communist island say he has started to eat and sit up in bed. The 79-year-old Castro relinquished power temporarily last Monday to his brother Raul.

A second doping test has come back positive for Tour de France winner Floyd Landis. The Tour director says Landis is no longer considered the winner. Landis insists he did not take performance enhancing substances and says he'll appeal. Coming up at 4:00 p.m. eastern, we'll hear from former Tour de France winner Greg Laman and hear his take on the controversy.

Former senator and astronaut John Glenn is recovering from a car accident. Glenn and his wife suffered minor injuries when their car collided with another vehicle last night in Columbus, Ohio. The 85- year-old Glenn and his wife are in fair condition at a local hospital. The driver of the other vehicle was not hurt.

Welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY, I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Ahead this hour, two Cuban exiles with two very different plans for what they'll do if Fidel Castro passes away.

And later in legal briefs, our attorneys will debate the Mel Gibson case. But first to our top story. We begin with an update on today's fast breaking developments in the Middle East crisis. The "Associated Press" reports that an Israeli cabinet minister is praising a draft U.N. resolution on the Middle East, unveiled today by the United States and France. The full U.N. Security Council is expected to meet shortly to discuss the plan designed to bring an end to the violence between Israel and Hezbollah. About 170 Hezbollah rockets hit northern Israel today. Three people were killed. Raising the Israeli death toll since the beginning of the conflict to 78. Israel attacked a suspected rocket launching base at an apartment building in Tyre, Lebanon overnight. Israel says eight of the commandos were wounded, but the raid killed several Hezbollah fighters.

CNN has reporters all across the region, bringing you the latest on the fighting and diplomatic efforts to end it. And we are just one hour away from a scheduled behind closed doors U.N. Security Council meeting on the Middle East crisis. Delegates are expected to discuss a draft resolution worked out by the United States and France. No vote is expected today but U.S. Ambassador John Bolton says the agreement will push the process forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We expect there might be meetings at the expert level to answer further questions and we're prepared to continue to work tomorrow in order to make progress on adoption of the resolution. But we have reached agreement, we're now ready to proceed.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN senior United Nations correspondent Richard Roth joins us live. So, this behind closed doors meeting just may be an hour away. What is the feeling there at the U.N.?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well we're going to get some feeling in a moment from a guest from the Arab group here at the United Nations. They have been waiting for a resolution to come and now they have it because it's been worked out by the key players.

The resolution calls for a halt in the hostilities. A full cessation and then tells Hezbollah to immediately stop its attacks and for Israel to stop all offensive military operations. And it also calls for working out a lot of the contentious decades old border disputes and other things. And then a later resolution would send in a larger peacekeeping operation.

With me, Yahya Mahmassani, the League of Arab States ambassador here. What do you think overall of this resolution, is this something that will stop the conflict?

YAHYA MAHMASSANI, ARAB LEAGUE AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Well of course, if accepted by both parties I think it could stop the conflict provided of course, let me emphasize, that all the members of the Lebanese cabinet have to approve it. That's very important. Now there's a number of issues here, of course, namely for example the prisoners. They haven't resolved the question of the prisoners. They took it from the operative part to the -- hoping to resolve it at a later date.

ROTH: But this resolution says that Israel has to stop its offensive military actions. Which means Israel troops stay there? What happens?

MAHMASSANI: Well again, this is another problem. As long as Israel is on the Lebanese soil, where they are considered as an occupation force. So we would like to see the Israelis out of the Lebanese territory. But as a package, if you take it as a package, as a package as a whole, I think it might fly out provided, you know provided that the Lebanese side accepts it in its totality.

ROTH: Do you think Hezbollah will accept yes or no?

MAHMASSANI: Well I cannot tell you ...

ROTH: All right. Yahya Mahmassani, League of Arab States Ambassador here at the United Nations. He'll be around the Security Council consultations taking place in about an hour behind closed doors. There will be no vote today Fredricka, but in the coming days likely. If there is a vote, it will be approval of some form of resolution here. The first one designed to try to diplomatically solve the fighting. Back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Richard Roth, thanks so much at the U.N.

Well now let's go to the front lines. CNN's John Roberts is embedded with Israeli troops in southern Lebanon. He joins me now by phone. What's happening there, John?

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey Fred. Well on the news of this United Nations resolution, at least the framework with the United States and France agreeing to it. There is a sense of skepticism and a new sense of urgency for the unit that I'm traveling with here.

The sense of skepticism is how is this going to work? When an end to hostilities are called, if Hezbollah fires a rocket into Israel, is Israel allowed to go after that position? Don't forget, the key words here as Richard Roth highlighted were, offensive operations.

It's not to say that Israel can't stay in southern Lebanon and hold that ground, prevent Hezbollah from coming back into the towns and villages that they have spent so long cleaning out and trying to reconstitute itself. Israel would probably hold on to that ground until a U.N. force can come in and probably slowly withdraw or even remain in the territory until that larger international stabilization force comes in.

As far as the unit that I'm with right now, it's called a tank hunting unit, but there are no tanks to hunt on the Lebanese side of the border. So what they do is they turn their expertise, their fire power, their American-made sophisticated missiles against Hezbollah positions, searching out bunkers. They set up an observation post. They looked for a Hezbollah bunker, they try to engage the enemy.

What they have now, is they believe, an increasingly narrow opportunity of time to attack those Hezbollah positions while the diplomatic gears grind forward. They believe that maybe there's 48 to 72 more hours before a cease-fire is called, if the track continues at the United Nations at the pace that it is. And therefore they have a very, very short time now after this ramp up in offensive operations, a ramp up in the ground forces to try to degrade Hezbollah's capability to the greatest extent possible Fred.

WHITFIELD: And so now John, the idea of have something like about 10,000 ground forces there, mostly in southern Lebanon, are you getting a sense from your source there whether they are going to indeed increase that number?

ROBERTS: Well you know, they had that call-up of reserves and the unit that I'm with is a reserve unit, but it was called up after the first week of the operation. So they have been on the ground for a long time here now. We have not yet seen those three divisions of reserves arriving toward the front. It's been fairly piece meal.

We've seen some reserve artillery batteries brought in, some reserve troops similar to the unit that I'm with brought in, but nothing that would give you the idea of a grand scale invasion the way we saw back in the early 1980's, when Israel pushed into Lebanon.

There just hasn't been that there so I'm still somewhat unsure of what the total operation looks like. But it does look like they are pushing harder toward the north to try to push Hezbollah back. But they're still not trying to control these towns and villages, just the territory surrounding them.

WHITFIELD: All right, John Roberts traveling and in bed there with IDF forces there in southern Lebanon.

And Israel has just reacted to news of this U.N. draft resolution that the U.S. and France have agreed on. All this taking place as more Hezbollah rockets seem to smash into Israel today. Several hitting Haifa, which is where we find our Fionnuala Sweeney. Fionnuala, first let's talk about the reaction that Israeli cabinet members are already expressing about this draft resolution.

FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Isaac Herzog is the tourism minister, but he's also a member of the inner security cabinet which makes a lot of the key decisions on how this war is being prosecuted. And he within the last hour has said that to this resolution looks as though it's going to happen in a couple of days, which means now that Israel has to echo what John Roberts was saying, a limited amount of time in which to prosecute this war and carry out its objectives.

And what it wants to do is not hold Lebanon it says, not occupy Lebanon, but it wants to clear a buffer zone. They don't even want to call it a buffer zone as such but certainly a secure zone which they want to then be able to hold until a multinational force comes in.

But now recognizing that as this draft resolution has reached agreement between at least between the United States and France, now going before the Security Council, they have only maybe two days or three days at most in which to try to prosecute the war as they see fit, and then Fredricka to have a cease-fire if that is passed by the U.N. Yes you mentioned their rockets, more than 170 rockets falling across northern Israel throughout this day. Three people dead, three women, all members of one family in an Arab village in northern Israel.

Also several casualties and it has to be said that each and every day over the past three days, the number of rockets falling into this country from Hezbollah in southern Lebanon has been at its greatest since any time since this war began, more than 200 rockets on Thursday, more than 200 rockets on Friday. And now almost 200 rockets again on Saturday. An indication that Hezbollah is still capable of targeting Israel. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right. This arsenal leading to a lot of casualties on both sides. Fionnuala Sweeney thanks so much from Haifa. In fact the Israeli Defense Forces is saying the death toll on their side stands now at 78, nearly half of them civilian. And the Lebanese Internal Security Forces is reporting 686 Lebanese killed. Mostly civilians killed over the past three weeks of this conflict.

Israeli forces are zeroing in on Tyre, Lebanon, with air attacks and a commando raid targeting Hezbollah. The militant group says it successfully repulsed the raid, killing one Israeli commando and injuring three others. Hezbollah makes no mention of its own casualties, however, but Israel says it killed several Hezbollah members and said eight Israeli troops were wounded. Our Karl Penhaul is in Tyre with details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Flashes in the sky as Hezbollah fighters appear to launch a long-range rocket. And two hours before dawn, Israel struck back. Helicopters blast cannons, jets dump bombs. And on the ground an Israeli raiding party battled Lebanese troops and Hezbollah gunmen.

(on camera): Lebanese soldiers have told us that the Israeli commando assault began on this beach just on the northern edge of Tyre. It's not clear exactly where they landed but we have found some military glow sticks, these can be used to mark some kind of landing spot.

(voice-over): Lebanese military sources say the Israelis crept up the beach and down this farm track. Israeli military sources say a small elite unit approached these apartment blocks through banana plantations and citrus groves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you see here? It's been cut.

PENHAUL: Local resident Ahmed Moussa says the Israelis came through here. Their target, a first floor apartment in this block. It was 3:00 a.m. and I was sleeping when I heard shooting. There was a lot of shooting from everywhere. Around 60 people were on that corner, they were pointing weapons with laser sites. There were people screaming. Moussa explains there are spent shell casings in the stairwell, a pool of dried blood in the doorway. In the fighting, the apartment caught fire. In the wreckage, it's easy to make out magazines for assault rifles, ammunition, and a few rounds for rocket propelled grenades. Israeli military sources say they killed two or three men inside, and said they were Hezbollah commanders in charge of launching long-range rockets. Tyre c city hall official Mohammad Al Moussani, says the Israelis also tried to take a prisoner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They cuffed his hand and they took him. And on the way they killed him. Maybe he wanted to escape. Maybe he was making them slower.

PENHAUL: He says that man's body, whom he didn't identify, was later found dumped in a nearby orange grove. Looking at blood stains at the rear of the apartment, the Israeli commandos apparently fought a running gun battle as they retreated.

(on camera): You can see the bullet holes in this concrete pillar. And if I dig in a little bit, there are fragments of bullets still embedded in there. Now the angle of fire looks to have been from over there and sure enough, looking over there we found some spent cartridge cases.

(voice-over): City official Al Husseini says both Lebanese soldiers and Hezbollah gunmen were battling the Israeli force.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Lebanese army resisted the Israeli forces and I think there was some supplies came from Hezbollah.

PENHAUL: As the Israeli commandos fought their way back to the beach, Lebanese intelligence sources said Israeli attack helicopters provided air support and destroyed this car.

(on camera): The vehicle is still warm after it was shot up and caught fire. And you can clearly make out large caliber bullet holes sprayed through the roof.

(voice-over): A city block away, another helicopter fired on this Lebanese army armored truck mounted with anti-aircraft guns. Later, Israeli military sources admitted their commando force took casualties, but said the operation was a success. They said, "Everyone we wanted to kill, we killed."

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And that was Karl Penhaul reporting from Tyre, Lebanon.

Well Israel says it could have bombed the apartment building in Tyre, instead of moving in with commandos. The Israeli military says it launched the ground assault to avoid civilian deaths. Well we got details a short time ago from the IDF.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GENERAL NOAM FEIG, DEPUTY CMDR., ISRAELI NAVY: This operation was planned as part of an ongoing process. Based on intelligence and our knowledge of the terrain and our preparations to ward off various attacks. It was carried out yesterday in response to the shooting from Hadera and it was planned in such a way that it could be performed very quickly.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Straight ahead, insights into Hezbollah from a journalist who has had access to members of the group and can give us insight into their goals, he says.

Also, what are Mel Gibson's fellow celebrities saying about the controversy surrounding his DUI arrest? And how is the American public responding to President Bush's handling of the crisis in the Middle East?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Here's what we know right now in the crisis in the Middle East. Israeli cabinet minister Isaac Herzog is praising a U.N. draft resolution aimed at ending the crisis. He tells the "Associated Press" it's an important development, but he says the Israeli military will keep up its strikes in coming days. France and the United States agreed on the draft resolution earlier today. It still must pass the full U.N. Security Council. The council is meeting behind closed doors at the top of the hour.

The fighting rages on today. Israeli warplanes are striking more targets today in the Lebanese city of Tyre. Israeli commandos have clashed with Hezbollah fighters on the ground there. In northern Israel, more Hezbollah rockets rained down on Haifa and Kiryat Shmona. Rockets also struck a village in the Galilee region, killing three people.

In less than an hour, the U.N. Security Council is due to meet in a closed session. Members will consider a draft resolution calling for a full cessation of fighting between Israel and Hezbollah. But the chief players in the conflict remain skeptical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMAD CHATAH, ADVISER TO LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER: Any attempt to end this crisis without a domestic Lebanese agreement is a recipe for continued conflict. We, in Lebanon, including Hezbollah, including Hezbollah, which is part of the government, have approved a plan that includes having the army as the only group with weapons. And that is the central point of our plan to get out of this quickly but permanently.

ARYE MEKEL, CONSUL GENERAL OF ISRAEL TO N.Y.: We know how this war is supposed to end. By the time its over, Hezbollah cannot be anywhere near the Israeli border. They have to be disarmed. They cannot have the capability of sending missiles or rockets towards Israel and our hostages have to be freed. The Israeli kidnapped soldiers. These are all conditions and this is what the U.N. resolution will have to reflect. (END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: As for Hezbollah, one of its ministers says the rockets won't stop until the last Israeli soldier is out of Lebanon. With us now in Tyre, Lebanon is Ghaith Abdul Ahad, he is an Iraqi photojournalist and he has had exclusive access to Hezbollah and other Islamic militias. Good to see you Gate?

GHAITH ABDUL AHAD, IRAQI PHOTOJOURNALIST: Hi, good to see you.

WHITFIELD: Well, explain, if you will, why is Hezbollah so mysterious?

AHAD: Well, you have to know it's one of the most secretive organizations in the Middle East. If it is not the most secretive. They have had so long to prepare for this battle. They evolved through so many long years. They first started like any other militias, kidnapping, car bombing, killing, and then they evolved to become like this sole militia in the south of Lebanon. They are trained like normal soldiers. They are organized like a normal army. But at the end of the day they have a very good political structure with a very good foreign backing.

WHITFIELD: And so Ghaith, here you are, an Iraqi-born journalist. What explains how you've had such access to Hezbollah and why you have reported on them so extensively?

AHAD: Well I mean, I don't know. I mean I'm just a journalist trying to do my job. It's still a very secretive organization. I mean compared to the access I've had with other militias or insurgents groups, this one is -- I mean I'm really kind of frustrated.

But I don't know. I mean compare them to the Shia militias in the south of Iraq where we just went in, said hi, took our cameras and started going out with them, covering the battles of (INAUDIBLE) and Sadr City. Those people are almost impossible to cover, shoot, or work with when they're in battle.

WHITFIELD: So, Hezbollah is widely considered to be a militant terrorist organization. What is right or what is wrong about that based on your experience with them getting the kind of access you have been able to get?

AHAD: Well the word terrorist is such a flexible word in this part of the Middle East. What's terrorist for some people is a national resistance movement. Hezbollah has gained so much legitimacy, authority since the Israeli withdrawal in 2000. Most of the Lebanese and different factions, Christians, Muslims, Jews, they consider Hezbollah as a legitimate resistance movement. Now, not many of them agree with Hezbollah's latest movement. But they honor militant organizations, they are a guerrilla-fighting organization.

WHITFIELD: So can you explain, based on your reporting, you know, the members of this resistant movement, as you put it, it's not just the leader Nasrallah or just the fighters, but in many cases it's the shopkeepers, it's the teachers, it's an ordinary citizen. Why is it so difficult sometimes to distinguish who is a Hezbollah follower?

AHAD: The Hezbollah followers are basically Shia, are very well organized. They're divided into mainly two sections. The active resistance, active fighters, who like a professional army they spend their time training, working. And also the supporters or the reserve units who kind of do their normal life every day and then they go in training camps twice, three times a year. It's very difficult to fight Hezbollah I think. It's very difficult to disarm Hezbollah, to defeat Hezbollah because of it's really stretches its roots deep into the Shia south of Lebanon and into different layers of the Shia/Lebanese society.

Like every insurgent movement, I mean we see in Iraq 130,000 American troops trying to fight an insurgency, by far less organized than Hezbollah and they're having such a difficult time. So compare that with the Israeli capabilities and compare that to Hezbollah's organization, I think the Israelis have such a difficult time if they want to disarm Hezbollah through bombing or fighting on the ground.

WHITFIELD: Iraqi photojournalist Ghaith Abdul Ahad. Thanks so much for your time and your insight into the dealings that you've had with Hezbollah as a journalist there.

AHAD: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Well this weekend on CNN, Anderson Cooper takes us inside Hezbollah with an in depth look at its weapons, its warriors, its mission. CNN Presents Inside Hezbollah tonight and tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. eastern.

Here at home, this man, Mel Gibson, fighting a battle on two fronts of his own. He's trying to control damage from his anti- Semitic statements and he's also facing drunken driving charges. Straight ahead, a look at how Hollywood is reacting to this controversy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Mel Gibson faces the possibility of jail time if convicted of drunken driving. But for now, it's his anti-Semitic remarks that are getting most of the attention. He has apologized for them but as CNN's Brooke Anderson reports, many in Hollywood say that's not enough.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mel Gibson, actor, director, producer, anti-Semite. Strong words from one of Gibson's fellow actors, Rob Schneider, who placed an open letter to the entertainment community in the Hollywood trade paper, "Daily Variety." In it he responds to the statements Gibson made during his DUI arrest by saying, "I, Rob Schneider, a half Jew, pledge from this day forth to never work with Mel Gibson.

Even if Mr. Gibson offered me the lead role in "Passion of the Christ II". While shrouded in a veil of sarcasm, Schneider's sentiments, like others from the world of entertainment, represent a growing Hollywood backlash against Gibson.

BARBARA WALTERS: I don't think I want to see any more Mel Gibson movies.

He needs to be like welcomed into the Jewish community by a public circumcision.

ANDERSON: The creator of MASH and Tootsie, Larry Gelbart, had this wounding message for Gibson posted on columnist Army Archerd's Web site. "You managed to con everyone, sir, including those of your own faith." He goes on to call Gibson, "A man who so stokes the bonfires of bigotry."

(on camera): While a handful of Hollywood power players have spoken out about Gibson's actions, there are others who still remain silent.

RICHARD SCHICKEL, "TIME" MAGAZINE CRITIC: They may have to do business with him, so nobody is going to openly criticize him. Which I think is really cowardly.

ANDERSON: But others are wondering where are Gibson's famous friends in his time of need? That's a question William Donohue, president of the Catholic League, wants answered.

WILLIAM DONOHUE, CATHOLIC LEAGUE PRESIDENT: When people have fallen, they need their friends at that moment. Not when he's apologized successfully to the Jewish community, not two months out. They need it now, so where the hell are these people?

ANDERSON: CNN has reached out to numerous Hollywood actors and directors who have worked closely with Gibson. The resounding response, no comment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't see any of his former costars rushing to defend him.

ANDERSON: So while this tarnished Hollywood a-lister struggles with a public shunning by the people he works with, the world waits to see who will stand by him.

Brooke Anderson, CNN, Hollywood.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And we'll have more on Mel Gibson later on this hour. I'll be joined by our legal experts, Avery Friedman and Richard Herman.

Well, how is the American public responding to President Bush's handling of the crisis in the Middle East? We'll explore that when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com