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Greene has not Moved to Oust Mike Johnson; Supreme Court Dismisses Kari Lake's Voting Machine Lawsuit; Rep. Gottheimer, Lawmakers Visit Columbia's Campus Amid Protests. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 23, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Trump has been barred from attacking witnesses and jurors. Prosecutors say he's violated that order at least 10 times. CNN's Brynn Gingras joins us from outside the courthouse in New York City. Brynn, good morning to you how do you expect this hearing to play out morning?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie. So at 9:30 this morning, when court gets underway, we're going to have that hearing about that gag order -- that gag order hearing. And essentially, what the judge needs to discern -- determine is if Donald Trump violated that?

Prosecutors are saying that, like you said, he violated it 10 times. Remember that gag order essentially says that he cannot talk ill about or on social media about the members of the jury of witnesses, family members of the prosecution, family members of the judge, and they say they want him fined $1,000 for each time he violated it.

In addition to that, they said in court paperwork that they would like the judge to remind Donald Trump that he is a defendant in this case, and like all criminal defendants, he's subject to court supervision. So we'll see how that exactly plays out.

Meanwhile, the feud between Donald Trump and his former fixer Michael Cohen, who was a main witness, in this case, it continues. Of course, we have seen them go back and forth on social media, but then we also heard Donald Trump talk about him to the media yesterday, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Things he got in trouble for were things that had nothing to do with me. He got in trouble, he went to jail. This had nothing to do with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Now, of course, some of the reasons that Michael Cohen did go to prison was because of Donald Trump. That is a proven fact. However, Michael Cohen did respond on Twitter saying essentially, that his attacks stink of depression. So we'll see how these two played out while this gag order is reviewed.

After that gag order hearing happens this morning, Kasie later this morning at 11 o'clock, the jurors are going to come back into the courtroom and prosecution is again going to call back the witness that they had on the stand yesterday for just a few not really long at all 30 minutes or so.

David Pecker he is the Former Publisher of the National Enquirer. Remember, prosecutors say he was a co-conspirator in this entire scheme that is at the heart of this trial. So we'll expect to see him talk about and lay out how possibly that scheme allegedly worked, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, Brynn, I appreciate your polite reading of the Michael Cohen tweet. Thank you very much. Good luck today. All right, for more on this is joining us now is Former Republican Governor of Iowa also the Former Ambassador to China under President Trump Terry Branstad. Mr. Ambassador, Governor, thank you very much for being here.

AMB. TERRY BRANSTAD, FORMER GOVERNOR OF IOWA: Good morning, Kasie. Good to be with you.

HUNT: It's going to be hard for me not to call you Governor. I'm not going to lie since that's where I first --

BRANSTAD: -- most Iowans call me Governor because I served longer as Governor than anybody else in the history of the whole United States never lost an election.

HUNT: Fair enough sir. I do really very much appreciate it. I want to get your reaction, simply, you know, as someone who as you point out, has seen so much in our country in Republican politics. What it's like to watch the presumptive nominee of your party sit in a courtroom, the way Donald Trump is this week.

BRANSTAD: Well, it's a circus in it. It's obvious, it's political. The Democrats in New York and other places just don't want to have to run against Donald Trump. Because Biden's record is a disaster compared to what Trump did as president and I think they're afraid to run against him. So they want to keep him tied up in court, for the whole campaign, although I just don't think the American people by that they want to see a real election. They just don't want to see this political circus.

HUNT: So do you not think that it's possible for this jury in New York to give Donald Trump a fair trial?

BRANSTAD: I think it's really questionable. It's a very stacked and of course, you've got a biased judge whose daughter is raising money for the Democratic Party. And you got all kinds of issues here that make it very questionable, whether you can get a fair trial.

HUNT: Do you think there's any danger at all in declaring that it's not possible for the justice system to be fair? I mean, don't we all as citizens need to have faith in the system? BRANSTAD: Well, that's a problem. American people have lost faith in the system because of the political nature of what's going on here. I really believe that in the end, the political -- the legal system will work its way and obviously whatever happens here in this trial court can be appealed at the state level and eventually probably to the Supreme Court this could take a long period of time.

[06:35:00]

I don't think the American people really want to see this. They want to see a genuine campaign on the issues. How can we make America better? People are not happy with the direction of this country with open border inflation and all those issues. And that's what we ought to be talking about, not these political trials.

HUNT: Do you believe that whoever Donald Trump selects as his vice presidential nominee should be someone who says that they would have done something different from what Mike Pence did on January 6th?

BRANSTAD: I don't think that's really relevant. I think they need to focus on the future, and say what they want to do to close the border to reduce inflation. And to reduce the cost of people buying things at the grocery store, and at the gas station they really want to see addressing the issues that they care about, not that the political class cares about. And frankly, I think focusing on the past is a mistake. We need to focus on the future, and how we can make America great again.

HUNT: So let me ask you to put on your hat as the Former U.S. Ambassador to China and ask you about the TikTok ban that was included in this foreign aid package that does seem likely at this point to move forward. Do you think that ByteDance should be forced to sell TikTok to continue to operate in the U.S.? And how do you think the Chinese are looking at that?

BRANSTAD: Well, the Chinese love to be able to influence America and America youth. And I think this is very dangerous to our national security into the privacy of American citizens. So I'm glad to see the bipartisan support to require the Chinese to sell TikTok to someone else.

HUNT: Do you think that the Chinese have -- that the Chinese Communist Party has taken actions around American data and TikTok, do you think that's something that they've done?

BRANSTAD: Well, they've done a whole lot of things because they had the balloon that flew across America. They have spies. They have people coming into the southern border of the United States now and so there are a lot of reasons why we need to be careful to protect our security and protect the privacy of our citizens.

HUNT: All right, Ambassador Governor Branstad, thank you very much for your time this morning, sir. I really appreciate having you.

BRANSTAD: Well, you're welcome. Thank you, Kasie. HUNT: Donald Trump defending Mike Johnson publicly as the House

Speaker faces escalating threats from the right wing of his party. That criticism has intensified since Johnson passed and $95 billion foreign aid package in the house with Democratic support.

Trump standing by the speaker on a conservative talk show Monday, he said, quote, we have a majority of one it's not like he can go and do whatever he wants to do. I think he's a very good person. I think he's trying very hard. Panel is back. Jeff, what do you -- what do you make of Trump finally saying, you know, publicly, OK I got your back, kind of, sort of --?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well look, he invited him down to Mar-a-Lago a couple of weeks ago. And that picture of Speaker Johnson standing next to the former president at Mar-a- Lago, it doesn't get any more supportive than that.

So look, is the Former President going to essentially love this foreign aid bill? No, but he does not want a messy speaker fights. I think that's at the root of all this. We'll see how long his support for Mike Johnson last. But for now, at least, I think it's very significant. That he is saying, look, we have a majority of one.

I mean, what is he supposed to do? He has a very hard job. So to me, it seems like he is giving as much support as humanly possible in this era for the speaker. And essentially some of his advisers behind the scenes are telling Marjorie Taylor Greene just sort of zip it. We'll see if that happens or not.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That was what's so interesting to me is one thing is his tepid, very tepid support for the speaker. But the other is his lack of control of the far right of his own party. I mean, this is to me the most interesting dynamic, the fact that we all have to discuss what Marjorie Taylor Greene thinks is, I think, a very, very sobering moment for this country.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, although it's worth pointing out like the only three people who are for the motion to vacate right now are Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paul Gozar and Thomas Massie. I think that's one of the reasons I other Republicans don't want to join because who wants to be the fourth on that weird Mount Rushmore of criminality and weirdness and whatever right?

[06:40:00]

And so criminally, the wrong word grossness is probably better. But I think that the Trump -- basically Mike Johnson is the crucial Jenga piece that if they pull him out, the GOP caucus collapses. And we're in a Bizarro situation where Donald Trump is worried that Republican chaos might make him look bad. And I think that's why Johnson --

HUNT: That is an interesting state of affairs.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: I mean, it threatens our House majority. And he knows how important a majority in the House could be. So I think that's at the root of all that's not some love for Mike Johnson. But you're right. I mean, they've not been able to control Marjorie Taylor Greene, we'll see what happens now because Steve Bannon says a very different thing on the radio show a lot, sort of supporting Marjorie Taylor Greene.

But we'll see what Donald Trump says he's clearly distracted if he was sort of more engaged in this. Mickey might be talking more about this. But for now, Speaker Johnson has to be breathing a sigh of relief. In fact, he is I'm told, because of this tepid support or not. It's still support.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's to support.

HUNT: It is still support. Well, I mean, Jonah, what did you make of I mean, they're calling her Moscow, Marjorie, right on the front page on the front page of "The, New York Post". How does that like I do -- I am confused about like, why she is considering all these dynamics doing this? Is it just for her own attention?

GOLDBERG: Yeah, I mean, look, part of the problem that we have in our politics today is because the both parties are so weak. It is very easy for politicians, whether it's Gates, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, to raise large amounts of money outside of the party apparatus from small donors, just by being gadflies.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene raises a lot of money by peddling a lot of nonsense about Ukraine. And I think she kind of believes her own BS at this point. And it doesn't threaten her individually, politically.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: She also speaks for a side of the party. I mean, this isn't cheap. I mean, let's be honest here. She isn't just, you know, articulating her own whims. I mean, she is actually -- she's able to raise money because people actually believe what she says. And there's a part of the party that actually supports her and her viewpoint.

So, I mean, this is why she is actually important, but what I don't understand exactly is how is she going to move this forward? She is now seen as obstructive. She is seen as a problem for Trump. And that ultimately puts her position in the party --

GOLDBERG: No one ever accused her of being a four dimensional chess player, right? I mean, I think she lives -- she has goldfish memory and lives in the moment and she's just a creature of the internet aid.

HUNT: Well and then when your majority is so slim, and you change the rules to allow any single person to vacate the chair, this is where we get. All right coming up next Taylor Swift swiftly breaking a major streaming record plus pro-Palestinian protests spreading on college campuses across the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:00]

HUNT: 46 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup. The Supreme Court will decide if a Biden Administration regulation on so called ghost gun manufacturers is legal. The regulation says manufacturers must have serial numbers on the kits and keep a record of who purchases them.

Supreme Court dismissing Republican Senate Candidate Kerry Lake's case challenging the use of electronic voting machines in Arizona. Lake filed the case during her failed 2022 gubernatorial bid. NASA is back in communication with Voyager One for the first time in five months. The spacecraft which is about 15 billion miles away has been stuck in a data loop since November. The mission team received the first coherent data this week.

Another record shattered by Taylor Swift her latest album "The Tortured" Poets Department now the most streamed album on its first day a stunning 300 million streams on Friday on Spotify alone took just 12 hours.

Let's turn now to the crisis that's unfolding on college campuses across the country. As pro-Palestinian protests escalated schools like Columbia, NYU, MIT, the University of Michigan and Yale, stoking fears of anti-Semitic violence and resulting in dozens of student arrests at Columbia University the turmoil has forced the school to hold hybrid classes for the rest of the semester out of concern for student safety. And now lawmakers are demanding action. This was New Jersey Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): The protests here at Columbia are a new low. And something that I never thought I would see with my own eyes. Imagine trying to study for finals at Columbia. We're literally right outside the library. People are calling for your death. To the administrators of Columbia and beyond here are our demands. Stop the double talk and start acting now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And Congressman Gottheimer joins us now. Congressman, it's good to see you. Thanks for being here.

GOTTHEIMER: Good to see you. Thanks for having me.

HUNT: So you are of course celebrating Passover I want to note that particularly troubling that we're seeing so much of this as that is going on. What did you see on the ground at Columbia yesterday?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, we had two students who were kind enough to take us through campus before talking to us about what they're experiencing. And we saw the encampments, you know, signs and screaming and yelling and clearly what we heard from the students who feel intimidated and they talked to us about their friends who have been yelled at and screamed at intimidated, threatened when going into class or trying to leave their dorm room or going to the library.

So it is created a place that it does not feel safe for all students from all background and racism religions. And the bottom line is to me as I said as you heard me say a minute ago that's completely unacceptable at any college campus where it should be welcome for all students.

[06:50:00]

And of course, we're civil discourse and constructive dialogue should be encouraged. Not this sort of intimidation, yelling and violence.

HUNT: Congressman, the rabbi -- there's a rabbi associated with Columbia, who told Jewish students that they should return home. What was your reaction to hearing that?

GOTTHEIMER: Part of why I was there yesterday with three other my kind of three colleagues was to make it clear that they should feel safe, they must feel safe, that the university has to provide an environment for them where they feel safe. Imagine sending your child off to college and obviously spending a pretty penny for it. And they're not safe, and they're going to worried if they're going to be safe.

And so what I think -- I think it's that's unacceptable, that they can't let the rabbi say that they can't even feel safe on the campus. And I think that it echoes a huge responsibility now that many of my colleagues are calling for that these university presidents across the country step up and provide a safe space for all students, whether you're Jewish, or you know, you have no anti-Semitism, no Islamophobia again, no attacks on anybody. Nope, no hate and encourage civil, constructive discourse. And I think that's what everyone should expect that of a college campus.

HUNT: Would you feel safe sending your kids to Colombia in this environment?

GOTTHEIMER: After what I saw yesterday, I will be very concerned, right. I mean, and I understand why parents are very concerned. And you know frankly you heard what people have been screaming out. We are all Hamas. There was another student who apparently screamed out and is some of one of the protesters accused was on campus.

Never forget October 7th. It'll happen not one more time, not having 1000 more times, but 10,000 more times. So you can imagine how you would feel if you were a student there, and what that must be like for them.

HUNT: Do you think the President of Colombia should resign?

GOTTHEIMER: I really think it's up to the Board of Trustees. I think the President of Colombia must act. I mean, I think the president was at Congress, I guess two weeks ago, and spoke out against anti- Semitism. And so there's no place for it, which I strongly agreed with. But now it's time for action, not just words.

And so this is a big moment for the President of Columbia and frankly for presidents across the country so this Yale and other places and recent days where they have these encampments and where students are being threatened and intimidated and the question that for all of these presidents is, will they step up to the moment and do the right thing, and that's what we should expect from them to act? And not just to talk not just for words, but actually for action and to make all students feel safe?

HUNT: What action are you looking for?

GOTTHEIMER: I think specifically at Columbia, for instance, the president started by saying there's no place for these -- these encampments in front of a library where students can't go in where people are screaming and yelling or blocking people on intimidating students and, or kids can't leave their dorm or study that's got to end you've got to take that down and say, this is not how we're going to do this, right?

If you want to first amendment you want to protest, that's fine. Here's how you protest, you want to provide an environment for a civil discourse, actually bring people together have the dialogue, right, it's not always going to be a friendly dialogue. But you can have a constructive dialogue. And that's the way if you're the president, how they should do this.

But you don't allow what's going on right now you ended. I mean, the fact that they had to go online hybrid because right to have for classes for the rest of the semester, that they can't let students meet in the classroom because students don't feel safe, as the rabbi said, you have to go home.

That is not what should be expected of Columbia or any college and I'm expecting the President of Colombia to step up and fix that. And the bottom line is there's federal funding that goes to these universities, so that everybody, they have a legal obligation to make every effort to protect all students and under Title 6.

And that's the expectation. We expect that from Congress as these universities, and I'm hoping they step up to this moment -- to the moment and they do so now.

HUNT: Do you think federal funding should be revoked from universities that don't take the kind of action you're talking about?

GOTTHEIMER: I think there should be Title 6 investigations when you have -- when you have incidences like this, and I think many of us have called for them. And I think the Department of Education is investigating many of these colleges. And I think that's the right appropriate step.

HUNT: All right, Congressman, Josh Gottheimer, thank you very much for being with us.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having me.

HUNT: So Jonah Goldberg just how troubling is this and how did we get to this point?

GOLDBERG: Oh Gosh you got an hour?

HUNT: We have just minutes.

[06:55:00] GOLDBERG: I think there's a -- there's a long tradition of campus protests in this country that goes back to before the founding is gotten much more intense where schools intent. They consider part of your academic experience your college experience to be protesters. And I think that sort of encouragement gives a lot of administrators a blind eye to when these things go off the rails.

Look, I think the anti-Semitism stuff, particularly Passover is a big issue. It's a legitimate issue to talk about. It's a serious issue. And I think there's a lot of anti-Semitic stuff going on out there. But when you're saying you're Hamas, when you're praising Hamas, when you're praising Hezbollah, when you're saying you're going to globalize the Intifada.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Excuse me, I'm so sorry.

GOLDBERG: Yeah.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm sorry. But there everyone --

GOLDBERG: Let me finish my point. It means you're pro-terrorist. If you are celebrating Hamas, your approach --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying --

GOLDBERG: OK that's my point.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. But what I'm saying is there are selective quotes that are being taken often not from students themselves in the encampments in Colombia, they have said this. There are Jewish students who are actually part of this. And they are being used to wait, let me let me --

GOLDBERG: You -- let me finish my point.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No that's true. And just say more broadly, when people are calling for action, like Representative Gottheimer, what are they actually calling for? You've already had police go off.

HUNT: Hold on if there are -- if the people in those encampments, whether they're Columbia students or not, if the university can clear them from that encampment, and that is something that university can do.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But they've already put -- let me -- let me just say how we got here. The Columbia chose to bring police to clear the encampment that inflame the situation, to where now you're seeing these protests spread to Yale, to New York University and beyond. I am many people have said that the action of bringing police into a group of people who are already feeling that they are sort of representative of the oppressed, who are inspired by what happened with George Floyd in 2020.

And seeing what is happening in Gaza, that that has only really acted as a catalyst here. And so I wonder at the wisdom of bringing in the armed police into what is essentially a university campus there -- you know --

GOLDBERG: I question the wisdom of having a double standard that says it's OK to shout hateful, terror, pro terrorists things at Jews, but you can't -- you have --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No one is endorsing that.

GOLDBERG: A lot of people are endorsing that. A lot of people aren't condemning it. Yeah, a lot of people aren't condemning it. And I think I agree with you. Universities and the Democratic Party in the left have a huge problem trying to figure out how to cut this Gordian knot that they've created for themselves.

But that doesn't mean I have to sort of condone or not call out I spent, I got a lot of scars from calling out horrible statements on the right over the last 10 years. I call that anti-Semitism and bigotry all the time on the right.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Of course.

GOLDBERG: I don't hear a lot of that from sort of squat, adjacent type people calling out this stuff on the left.

HUNT: So John Fetterman had put out a tweet yesterday saying like, we are very close to Charlottesville for some of this stuff. Do you agree with that?

GOLDBERG: I think the comparison can go too far. But I think Joe Biden statement yesterday, where he basically did they're good people on both sides kind of thing was not the kind of moral clarity. The written statement was pretty good. But what Democrats have a huge problem here, because the there's a big chunk of their -- of Biden's coalition that does not like to hear criticism of any of this, you know, anti-Israel stuff, and they don't know how to get out of it.

And the pure politics of this is we've not seen campus protests like this since the Vietnam era. So for the political fallout of this, the young voters part of Biden's coalition. You're absolutely right. President Biden is not welcome on campuses. We'll see how this flares up during commencement addresses, which are coming up next month. Will the President speak at any commencement?

Well, the First Lady, others. So this is not solely about domestic politics. Obviously, it's bigger than that. But it has a huge following --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And looking at the conventions, the Democratic Convention coming up. I mean, talk about what we're going to see there. I think that's Jonah has mentioned this in the past. And I think that that's exactly right. I will also just say one other thing.

We're really not talking about the heart of this, which is what is actually happening in Gaza. And that is, of course, what is inflaming this entire situation. And that is really what the Biden Administration is trying to -- HUNT: I mean I just keep coming back to Jonah's point, though, right. The reason why this has become such a flashpoint, and obviously, there have been incidents across, you know, different campuses. But to your point, again, I mean, we just heard Josh Gottheimer say, he was there.

You heard people saying October 7th, you know, again, 1000 times 10,000 times, I mean, what it does seem, if you're a Jewish student, shouldn't you be able to attend the classes, you're paying lots and lots of money for without -- to hear that?

GOLDBERG: Yeah, look, I mean, like we spent a long time in the last 10 years talking about all the speech code things about all these like so hypersensitivity things about triggering words, but somehow gas, the Jews go back to Poland, all of that kind of stuff. Well, that's complicated. I don't think it's complicated.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's horrific. But when you're talking about --

HUNT: Are you saying that Columbus shouldn't call the cops to get those weapons --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm not -- I'm not saying that they shouldn't I'm saying that that has inflamed the situation and that is I mean -- I'm just talking about what the result is.

[07:00:00]