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Dr. Drew
A New Report Is Surfacing Just Now About Bobbi Kristina And What She May Have Confided To Her Friend Days Before She Fell Into A Coma; Was The Boy Who Has Beaten With A Strap Hurt Or Helped By That Punishment?; A 14- Year-Old Boy Received 14 Violent Lashes With A Belt For Stealing A Man`s Pants, And His Wallet. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 01, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:00:15] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, we have got breaking news about Bobbi Kristina Brown. What we know about the days before she had
entered hospice, and some of her shocking pleas for help. You will see them only here.
Plus, beating outrage. Was an accused teen thief hurt or helped by a vicious whipping. There it is. Let us get started though with our
breaking news. A new report is surfacing just now about Bobbi Kristina and what she may have confided to her friend days before she fell into a coma.
The reporter who broke this story will join me in just a second. But, first, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA HOLLAND, SPOKESPERSON FOR THER ROSWELL POLICE DEPARTMENT: Bobbi Kristina`s husband found her face down in a bathtub, in the bathroom of
their home. She was unresponsive, meaning not breathing, no heartbeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Investigators looking at the case of Bobbi Kristina Brown have now turned their attention, reportedly, to her
boyfriend, Nick Gordon, a man that she calls her husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The family has made very clear that they have not been a fan of Nick Gordon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN (voice-over): They believe that he has not been completely truthful as to what happened to Bobbi Kristina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBI KRISTINA BROWN, WHITNEY HOUSTON`S DAUGHTER WHO IS IN A COMA: We are best friends -- Long, long, long ago, a long time ago. And now I am in
love with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Whitney Houston took him in when he was 12 years old and raised him as if he were her son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK GORDON, BOBBI KRISTINA`S HUSBAND: My life changed dramatically when I met Kristina and Whitney. I was going to high school. My mom had kicked
me out of the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: He should be nowhere near the hospital. I do not want him in the parking lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Rolonda Watts, host of "Sundays With Rolonda Watts" Podcast; Anneelise Goetz, attorney, host of "Your Life and the Law"
Podcast, Mike Catherwood, my "Love Line and KABC Radio co-host.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
And on Skype, I have Danine Mennette, criminal investigator, author of "Messages for Joey." And on the phone, I have Dylan Howard. He is
editorial director of Radar Online. Dylan, give us the latest.
DYLAN HOWARD, EDITORIAL DIRECTOR OF RADAR ONLINE (via phone): Well, Dr. Drew, we are learning chilling new details tonight about what Bobbi
Kristina was thinking in the hours before her death. Now, Radar Online have obtained a series of shocking text messages that shows Bobbi Kristina
was desperately reaching out to friends in these days before she was found face down in that bathtub.
In a series of disturbing text messages with a trusted friend, she talks about Nick Gordon, her 22-year-old alleged violent boyfriend. In these
text messages, she goes on to say, "I seriously do not know what to do about him. You know how he is. I care about him, but I am so sick of the
fighting and him telling me what I can and cannot do. Plus, what I found out," she said, "I am devastated. I need my BFF baby love."
Now, close ones -- close to Bobbi Kristina are telling Radar Online that Gordon was a jealous lover who often, according to family and friends, was
violent with her. And, they say that Krissy was referring to Nick`s outbursts in these text messages and they say that this will become
critical evidence in that wrongful death civil lawsuit that the estate has filed against Nick Gordon.
PINSKY: Thank you, Dylan. Thank you. I appreciate your report. Of course, HLN, CNN cannot independently confirm or refute the report here,
but Dylan has always been a good source of information for us. And, I appreciate that report.
I want to also bring in now Segun Oduolowu. Host of "Wired In With Segun" Podcast. All right, so Segun, so a young woman has a fight with her
boyfriend. She is found dead. Does that indict him? So what? She had a fight with her boyfriend?
ODUOLOWU: Well, no, I do not think it indicts him, but where there is smoke, there is fire. And, I -- look, I will go on records say it is just
my opinion. I think that if he is not guilty, I think he definitely knows that what happened. I think the family is very, very smart for not
allowing him any access to her in this vegetative state, because I believe he caused it.
PINSKY: And, he has been in treatment, but now, Rolonda, he is out of treatment. There are reports of him drinking, but we have not confirmed
that. But, of course, a guy that was far gone as he is, who gets out of treatment -- he needs a long-term treatment, probably going to be using.
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "SUNDAYS WITH ROLONDA WATTS" PODCAST: Yes, but it is still all speculation. I mean clearly, it was not a perfect
relationship.
PINSKY: Clearly.
WATTS: Clearly, we have seen the Dr. Phil interview and we know that he has some issues.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: And, you know, it sounds like a fight before -- among lovers.
PINSKY: I agree. Anneelise, I agree with Rolonda --
WATTS: But, where is the proof?
PINSKY: Right. Where is the fire? We see the smoke, but we cannot say, "Oh, he killed this woman." We really cannot.
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: Well, we cannot say that he killed someone. And, just to kind of back up for a second, the lawsuit is not a wrongful
death lawsuit.
The lawsuit is essentially the conservator coming in and saying, in the shoes -- if Bobbi Kristina could get out of bed today and say, "I am going
to take you to court because you, you abused me and there was assault and there was battery and you took my money," that is what the conservator is
doing.
[21:05:00] What is interesting in that complaint, we talk about, you know, where is the evidence? Where is the fire? They specifically say, "Loud
arguments in the complaint," which leads me to believe that that side, that family, probably has some witnesses that heard something.
PINSKY: The police -- The police were out there a couple of times. Yes.
GOETZ: And, so that will help buttress that argument that there was assault going on. there is domestic violence. And, if you have all of
that, of course you do not want this guy at the bedside of your dying family member.
PINSKY: Danine, you agree with all of this?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I do, but you know the thing is, Dr. Drew, is that I keep hearing this, he did it, he did it. I think that
if they had enough evidence to charge him with something, they would have done it already. She does not have to die for them to charge him with
something.
PINSKY: Right.
MANETTE: She can just be in the state that she is in now and it can be some other, attempted murder. It can be a battery, an abuse or something
else that they can upgrade to murder charges if necessary. I do not think they have enough evidence.
PINSKY: Speaking of the state she is in now, Mike --
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, CO-HOST OF "LOVE LINE AND KABC RADIO: Yes.
PINSKY: -- we have learned also that "People" magazine reported that the family flew Bobbi Kristina to Chicago in this, we are calling it a
vegetative state, it may be close to that, but that is not accurate, before putting her in hospice. They flew this girl in a hospital to Chicago for
what? Once again --
CATHERWOOD: I do not know.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: -- for magical witch doctor to throw his hands over her? I mean, there is plenty of good neurologists all around where she is. What is
going on here?
CATHERWOOD: I do not understand it. I mean I really do not understand -- first off, I have no knowledge of anything scientific. I am an idiot when
it comes to that kind of stuff. But, I do not understand why we, as Americans, really go haywire when we are near death. Like, we, in this
country, that is the one thing where --
WATTS: I do not think we are prepared for it.
CATHERWOOD: Sure, sure. No --
PINSKY: No.
WATTS: We as a nation do not deal with death.
PINSKY: We hide it away.
WATTS: But, I frankly do not want to deal with it.
PINSKY: It can be a dignified, relatively painless experience. It can be a part of life.
WATTS: But I think what is going on here, Dr. Drew, is that you have a family that is in such pain.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: I mean, again and again and again. And, maybe they flew, for one last-ditch effort, one last consultation --
PINSKY: But, why not bring --
WATTS: So whatever happens, they know they did everything they could do.
PINSKY: Bring the doctor out -- it is so obvious what is going on.
WATTS: I know. I know.
PINSKY: Bring the doctor to her. Segun, what do you say?
SEGUN EDUOLOWU, HOST OF "WIRED IN WITH SEGUN" PODCAST: Well, I hear --
PINSKY: You know, miracles! The miracle worker is going to come and visit her.
ODUOLOWU: I hear so much -- from the panel. Like first of all, do you think he did it? Because like I said, I do. Do I think he is guilty in
some way, I think he is culpable in some way?
And, we are talking about speculation on what the family did. Again, this family watched Whitney Houston die, smoke herself to death, did nothing.
Here they have her daughter, found in the exact same way that she was found. It is not only is it saddening, but ugly.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: So, before we feel for Bobbi Kristina in this vegetative state, Let us point some fingers at this family that not only dropped the ball
with Whitney, dropped the ball with her daughter, and now they might dropping the ball with this guy, Nick, and not going after him. I bet you
when she died, after a wrongful death --
CATHERWOOD: He brings up a very good point.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes, he does.
CATHERWOOD: He brings up a very good. And, that listen I know firsthand, that regardless of how moral or how tight-knit a family is, addiction can
happen to anyone at any time.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: But I do think that the defensiveness and the deflection that happened around Whitney Houston`s death, it does show that this is not an
environment that is necessarily healthy and embracing to the ideas of either mental health issues or addiction.
PINSKY: I completely agree. However, now, the reason I cannot go there is I feel sorry for them. They really are in pain. That is the reality.
They may be culpable of how they got to this point, but now they are here and it is a disaster.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: So, I feel bad for them. But, next up, you will hear from Bobbi Kristina`s aunt. And, later, was the boy who has beaten with a strap hurt
or helped by that punishment. Back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:08:43] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We know in Bobbi Kristina`s case, there is no more brain. Brain is scrambled. It is gone. It is over. We just know that now. We know
those facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICCI GILBERT-DANIELS, R&B ARTIST/PRODUCER: With all due respect, Dr. Drew, I am one who believes in the power of people being able to heal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I personally have witnessed --
PINSKY: No, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: -- Someone who has been on life support who has came back. He has recovered totally.
PINSKY: No, no. Wait. Hang on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: So, I think the power of miracle and prayer is effective.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is not a full recovery. It is someone who has severe brain damage, you are describing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, even you have to allow for the possibility of medical -- say it with me, everybody -- miracles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, we also have some breaking news about Bobbi Kristina. She has been in hospice, obviously, for almost a month -- for almost a week
now. And, you know, the end is very near for her.
But, her aunt, Leola Brown just posted this on Facebook. "I want you all to know that justice will be served!" Exclamation point. "I can smile as
I say it. I will do all that is in my power to see to it that my niece, Bobbi Kristina Brown, is served her justice and did not suffer like this in
vain!
Back with Rolonda, Anneelise, Mike, Danine. Mike, any sense what she means by that? I think she is talking maybe about these texts.
CATHERWOOD: It is got to be. Yes. When she says, justice is going to be served, I mean, I certainly, do not know. You know, we are living in this
certain world --
GOETZ: I think what s going on is that it relates to the case that they just filed. Because If the D.A. is not going to take the case, they are
going to say, "Best part about the civil lawsuits, is that the government is not going to do it, you can take the law into your own hands and have
your day in court."
And the family is probably looking just like, "You know, I am tired of watching Nick not saying anything. I am tired of there being no evidence,
of there being no explanation. We are going to depose him.
We are going to bring in the witnesses. We are going to make him sit on the stand and answer our questions. And justice will be served." And I
bet that is very liberating for that family.
PINSKY: Danine, you agree with that?
MANETTE: No. Naturally. You know, I am coming from a whole different place here. I need to see the authenticity of these texts. They just kind
of came out of nowhere. And, I am not really quick to rush to judgment and assume something is valid when I have not seen any proof or have not heard
anything. These just came up out of the blue. I really believe that they had a very abusive and violent relationship, because that is from what she
came.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: And I think they probably had a big fight. But from the very beginning, I have told you that I really felt like this was a suicide. I
really do. I felt it is.
[21:15:00] PINSKY: Yes, Danine. I got to tell you, from my experience, what this usually is, is just a little -- the wrong combination, a little
too many opiates, a little benzo, maybe some alcohol --
CATHERWOOD: We have talked about this off the air.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: It is when you see adults --
PINSKY: Hardly adults.
CATHERWOOD: -- that are 85 plus --
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Die in shallow bodies of water, it is drug and alcohol.
PINSKY: That is our theory.
CATHERWOOD: I mean, that is the case.
PINSKY: And, it is rarely intentional. It is usually an accidental overdose. The accidental overdose is because somebody is using drugs on a
regular basis and they take a little bit too much that day.
But, Mike, my other question to you, is on the heels of that tape we just saw, where Segun was hugging that woman who really was talking about
someone who had a localized brain injury, Bobbi Kristina has had a global massive brain injury.
There is no more brain function other than just the basic lung function -- basic body functions. The brain stem is the only thing that is
functioning. All of this is just gone. Why cannot people listen to doctors? Why do they have to send her to Chicago? Fly her to Chicago?
CATHERWOOD: I am blown away by all of that. I have always said, there are only two occupations where people who have no idea what they are talking
about will tell you how to do your job and that professional athletes and scientist. And people who have no idea what they are talking about will
tell you, `Well, you know, listen, I read on pug med, that if I cut gluten out, you know, I am going to be able to jump over the moon."
WATTS: But listen, it is a family in deep pain and nobody wants to --
PINSKY: No. I understand.
WATTS: -- and all of us at that moment believe in that one glimpse of hope. And, whatever you say about the family, whatever the trials and
tribulations they have obviously in publicly been through, they are still a family of faith. I do know that.
CATHERWOOD: Rolanda is right. A lot of times, like --
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
ODUOLOWU: I do not --
CATHERWOOD: Rolanda is right, like, whatever we think, as people as outsiders, when you are put at a point where your child is going to die or
your sister or whoever --
PINSKY: Listen, guys --
CATHERWOOD: Your reasoning goes right out the door.
PINSKY: And it is the job of the caretakers, the medical team, to get them to the point of acceptance. That is our job, to do that because it is sad.
It is over. It is terrible. And, if they are getting to that point. Something is wrong with that team. They are either treating them special
because they are celebrities or they are backing off.
WATTS: Or maybe they want to make some more money.
PINSKY: Something is not good in my opinion. Now, maybe, just they are impossible to deal with.
CATHERWOOD: Could that be the reason why they flew her to Chicago?
GOETZ: But they got there, though, because she is in hospice now.
PINSKY: Yes. They got there, eventually.
GOETZ: So, that team got the family to understand the circumstances, that maybe took that one last-ditch trip to Chicago. But now they understand
and she is where she should supposed be.
WATTS: Second, third opinion, whatever.
ODUOLOWU: Wait. But how ghoulish of the peanut gallery to sit on the sidelines and tell a family how they should grieve or when they should
accept. She is in hospice now. Does it matter if she was in hospice six months prior? She is in hospice now and they have gone through to their
cycle to get to this place.
PINSKY: You should know, this is simply a fact that medical professionals spend a lot of time wringing in their hands about how much resources spent
on useless therapies. Because that could be used elsewhere for people who actually can recover.
ODUOLOWU: But they can afford it, right?
PINSKY: Maybe, maybe not. We do not know how. Regardless, it is resources that are being wasted and that is all I am saying.
WATTS: Or maybe the celebrity angle of it.
PINSKY: Well, that is what I am worried about. If you are a celebrity, you tend to get special care. And if you get special care or -- what do
they call it, sort of --
WATTS: Or more coddled to.
PINSKY: Well, even if it is special, it is substandard, because the standard of care is the best. We all made -- Physicians maintain the
standard of care because that is the best care. If you are getting something special, it ends up being not good. It is substandard.
CATHERWOOD: I hate to be too kind of gross or morbid, but the reality is that, a lot of people probably have not seen what happens when someone
holds on too long.
PINSKY: Never. No. I know.
CATHERWOOD: It is bad news.
PINSKY: It is terrible. It is tragic. Any nurses up in the audience today? We had a nurse came down yesterday and shared with me what it is
like to see somebody in a coma fall apart. It is horrific.
ODUOLOWU: But it is not your child. Like we are making these judgments on people that are not our flesh and blood.
PINSKY: But, Segun. Darn it! Her child -- their child is gone! She is gone! There is a piece of meat there. The child is gone and we need to get
her used to the idea of grieving the loss of the child.
ODUOLOWU: But let her love that -- I mean -- a piece of meat? Let her love that piece of meat.
PINSKY: Oh Segun.
ODUOLOWU: Who are we to be the butcher that says, "now, let us carve her up."
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Danine. Danine, Danine get in here. Help me out here.
MANETTE: They got to make sure that they have tried everything. There is a component of guilt here.
WATTS: That is right.
MANETTE: They abandoned her. They all went about their way and she was stuck in this house with this abusive relationship. They feel bad. They
have to make sure that they have no should have, would have, could haves. They have to dot every "I" and cross every "T." They are not going to
throw in the towels until they have done that.
PINSKY: Mike.
CATHERWOOD: Since we have a panel of not only legal professionals, but medical professionals, would we be forced to hear some of these details if
there is a criminal investigation going on? Like could there possibly be criminal investigation that is going on that we are not privy to?
PINSKY: Oh, sure.
GOETZ: There is definitely. The D.A. has said it.
PINSKY: Well, Danine says no.
GOETZ: The D.A. has said, I am investigating right now, especially in light of what is going on with her going into hospice.
MANETTE: I do not think so.
GOETZ: The D.A. specifically said, that we are still actually investigating this case.
[21:20:00] PINSKY: Danine says no, though.
MANETTE: I do not think so. I do not think -- I think that they are just holding on to the evidence. But, I think if they had something to charge
him with, they would have charged him with it by now.
GOETZ: If they do not have enough.
PINSKY: May do not have enough.
GOETZ: I do not think they have enough.
WATTS: Or they could be waiting for him to confess something. I mean the way he was acting on Dr. Phil --
PINSKY: Was not that awful?
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: That was waiting for a confession.
CATHERWOOD: He looks like King Kumpa from Super Mario Brothers.
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Next up. Leave it here. Next up, beating outrage. Did this boy in this unbelievable video deserve -- well, forget deserve. Was it a good
thing or harmful thing, even if he did deserve it? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Tell them you are sorry, bro.
14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am so sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You going to ever steal again?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: Never in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A little boy in a seemingly quiet suburban neighborhood gets the beating of a lifetime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: 14 blows to the child`s behind. All the while, he was screaming, "It hurts!" and "I am sorry."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
14-YEAR-OLD KID: Owww! Please!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:05] PINSKY: Think about what that looks like. It is awful. It is not OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He got beat for stealing and now he is going to knows not to steal again. He is going to be on the straight and narrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" SHOW: The schoolboy keeps grabbing his front and his crotch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The buttocks is being jammed against the scrotum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Still there is no evidence of this serious physical injury element.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: There is always a need for discipline. There is never merit for abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: If somebody touches my twins that way, I am going to end up on the "Nancy Grace Show."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: This is a segment we call, "What The?!" It is a story you would not believe unless it were true. That boy received 14 violent lashes with
a belt for stealing a man`s pants, allegedly, and his wallet. The video is from Facebook, and here is how it begins. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): What did you do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): He stole my pants from the park and ran, right? Tell him what you did. Tell him what you did.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I stole his pants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Tell him how old you is?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am 14 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): He is 14 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am an old school dude. I do not even want to hurt this little dude. I want to take him home to his momma, but he will
not tell me where he lives.
Some people going to think I am wrong for this, but he is 14 years old and this is why kids do this (EXPLETIVE WORD). You feel me? I do not want to
do this. Why you stealing from people.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: Awwww!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Bad!
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am sorry. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Tell them you are sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: I am sorry. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You going to ever steal again?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): No.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Never in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Never in your life?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: Huh-uh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALER SPEAKER (2): Are we good or no?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Rolonda, Anneelise, Mike, Danine. Rolonda, your reaction.
WATTS: You are not going to like me after this, Dr. Drew. But, that little boy need to have his butt whooped.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Here is the problem. Let me frame the problem, which is -- first of all, you cannot take the law into your own hands, right? You are going
to get in trouble. Number two, I have nothing in principle wrong with physical discipline. What I have a problem with, it does not work. You
can stop the behavior in question, but you end up with all kinds of other trouble --
WATTS: I bet you he will not steal again?
PINSKY: But I can virtually guarantee you, he will do a lot of other stuff. Because that is how it goes. If the research showed anything
different, I would be all for it. Why not? Segun, I have nothing in principle wrong with it, except it does not work. In fac, there are always
better things. And in fact, it has the contrary effect on their personality development and their behavior and other things. It is just a
fact.
WATTS: Dr. Drew, I do not know where you grew up --
(LAUGHING)
ODUOLOWU: Doctor drew --
WATTS: I grew up -- look, I am old school. I grew up in North Carolina. We got whoopings like that. And, you best believe, we did not do that
stuff again. Now, I will admit, I am not crazy about having gotten whooped like that.
I have a little psychological issue, probably, because of that. But I tell you what, I tell you what, that little boy will not do it again and that
man might have made the next Dr. Drew, for all we know.
CATHERWOOD: The argument could be had, though -- the argument could be had is, whether or not you come from a family that believed in physical
discipline or not, does it change the fact that if you were to receive physical discipline, that is between you and your family. I guarantee you,
you did not get whooped by some random dude in your neighborhood.
WATTS: Nah-uh, no --
CATHERWOOD: You know what I am saying, like that is a different ball game.
WATTS: Your neighbors would whoop your booty across every yard until you got back home and they would call your mother and tell you.
PINSKY: Anneelise. What is going to happen to that guy, Anneelise?
GOETZ: You know, this --
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on, studio. What is going to happen to this guy.
GOETZ: You know, this is so incredibly infuriating to me. Because what that man did, is he beat a child. That is a child. That is a total
stranger that he found in a park and he beat him. And, we are saying it is OK, I think, because, because of the color of his skin.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no, no!
GOETS: We are saying -- No -- someone tell me. Someone tell me that if they saw a white man grab that little boy and beat him, that this
conversation would not be different?
ODUOLOWU: Yolanda. Yolanda, let me --
WATTS: Rolonda. Rolonda.
ODUOLOWU: Let us just play it out this way.
GOETZ: It is illegal.
ODUOLOWU: The first thing that came out of this man is mouth is, "I want to take him to his mother`s house, but he will not tell me where they
live." First of all --
GOETZ: I do not care!
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second. Here is the second thing -- here is the second thing. And here is the second, you want to talk color, they kill
kids that age, now, in this America, for stuff worse than that. So, I would rather --
PINSKY: Hey.
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second. I would rather that man beat that kid with a belt than it was a cop who found him and shot him. The discipline --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: It is an unrelated phenomenon. The question was -- give this man a microphone. This man up here. Go ahead. Yes, sir. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Well, first of all, in my country, Saint Kitts and Nevis, that is the regular thing. This happens all the time. This is
not anything new. Absolutely.
CATHERWOOD: They do not have vegetables, though. There is no vegetable in Nevis. They have to have them shipped in, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: No. There are vegetable. You are misinformed.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: So, what --
[21:30:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: So, what I am saying is , this is absolutely the right thing to do. That is a child. That guy could have
ended up on jail or shot dead. Come on, man.
PINSKY: It is simply -- I wish that were true.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: I will say this --
PINSKY: This is so baffling.
WATTS: What I liked about when the man was whooping the little boy, he did say, and, you know, the old cliche, "This is going to hurt me worse than it
is going to hurt you." But he also sent that little boy in so much love that he is going to help him with his schoolwork. That he is going to not
let that little kid go. It was not like he just whooped him and ran away.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Yes, he said that -- wait, wait. Hold on. He is going to help him with his schoolwork and then he said, "Tell them how old you is?"
PINSKY: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: What grade is he going to be in? He is a moron.
PINSKY: Jenna Kravitz is a Clinical Neuropsychologist. She is a specialist in the development of this organ right here, the brain. Jenna,
let us get into this. I know what do you want to talk about, as a mom. What you would do if that have been your kid -- or a neuropsychologist,
what it means to the brain development when a child goes through this kind of a phenomenon?
JENNA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL NEUROLOGIST: Absolutely. Dr. Drew, we have more than 80 years of clinical research that says over and over again that
physical violence is not the way to shape or change behavior.
PINSKY: Because?
KRAVITZ: In fact --
PINSKY: Because?
KRAVITZ: For a number of reasons! It can affect the gray matter in the prefrontal cortex of the brain.
PINSKY: So, this part of the brain. I got my brain up.
KRAVITZ: That is right.
PINSKY: Look, Jenna. This part of the brain becomes deficient.
KRAVITZ: Right. And this area of the brain mediates things like impulse control, aggression, personality.
PINSKY: So, you end up with kids with more aggression, different kinds of personalities --
KRAVITZ: Absolutely.
PINSKY: -- than they would normally have, and difficulty containing aggression.
KRAVITZ: Not only that -- but this video, I mean, is so despicable to me on so many levels. As a clinician, there is no argument -- it is 2015.
There are way better ways to discipline your children than beating them with a belt, number one. But as a mother, if anybody touched my kid like
that --
GOETZ: Right.
KRAVITZ: Oh, my gosh! I would go totally aped --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes, sir. What have you got?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Two things, my school administration, they were the ones to spank me. So, it is kind of like a random person too on
the same front as they are spanking. You do not know this person.
PINSKY: The school does that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: When I was a child, they used to.
PINSKY: Why did they stop it if it is such an effective treatment?
ODUOLOWU: Because everybody got really --
PINSKY: Because it does not work!
ODUOLOWU: Everybody wants to give everybody a trophy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: And, the other is this is what it means -- it takes a village to raise a child.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
GOETZ: No, it is not a village!
PINSKY: What about what Anneelise said? What if that had been a Caucasian person whipping that child, Segun? You had this huge reaction, but you did
not address the point. Please address the point.
ODUOLOWU: No, because I would have no problem. If a white man caught a black kid --
PINSKY: And started whipping him! He started whipping him.
ODUOLOWU: And said, I want to take you to your mom and he said no and took his belt off and gave him a whooping, I would prefer that too, what I have
seen some of the white people that do stuff with black children.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: I do not think so. I think if we looked --
GOETZ: We are not a self-policing society. We are not a self-policing society. We are not a society where you see a wrong, and then you punish
the person. That is not how this country works.
ODUOLOWU: You say we are not a self-policing society when we see people taking the law into their own hands all of the time.
PINSKY: All of the time?
CATHERWOOD: But, It is still illegal.
GOETZ: If you are encouraging that behavior, you are encouraging men to commit assault and battery.
PINSKY: Hang on. Stop everybody. Stop. Stop. Stop.
(CORSSTALK)
GOETZ: People need to understand that.
PINSKY: Danine. Danine, you work in criminal justice system, where you see the consequences of these kinds having been beaten, what is your
opinion?
MANETTE: Yes, and you know, and that is the thing. My issue is, with someone beating someone else`s child, I cannot wrap my mind around that.
How this man just decided to grab this kid. He could have had a conversation with him. He could have screamed at him. He could have
pretty much scared the daylights out of him.
But the fact that he put his hands on someone else`s child, I have a real problem with that. But given, you know, the whole -- you know, issue about
whether or not abuse, you know, physical violence, it messes with the brain and all of that. I could give you that, so I can sign on to the fact that
corporal punishment may have a negative impact on kids --
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: But the fear of corporal punishment works.
PINSKY: All right. Next up -- Hang on. We are going to stop here. Thank you, Danine. We arfe going to keep this debate going. And, later on,
there is a tornado out there we are keeping an eye on. And, also, we got a Walmart story that was trashed by out of control teens. We got that video.
And, again, as I said, we are monitoring the weather in Kansas, Missouri, I believe, where we will show you more of this unbelievable storm. That is a
super cell that is over, I believe, Kansas City. We got a careful watch on that and we are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:34:41] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: It hurts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It is a whooping. It is a whooping. It is a whooping.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD SPEAKER: It hurts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It is a whooping. Turn around, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am sorry, I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I know you are sorry, bro. Tell him you are sorry, bro. You ever going to steal again?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Never in my life!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You ever going to steal again?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Never.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I did not even hit you hard! Turn around! Turn around!
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Please!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You have about three left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That disturbing video posted to Facebook has nearly 10 million views, tens of thousands of comments. One woman wrote, quote, "Now, this
is why black men are needed in our neighborhoods. Discipline goes further than a child support check."
Back with Rolonda and Anneelise, Mike, Danine, Jenna. And, you guys still jumped around the issue that Anneelise courageously brought forward. What
if a a white guy had that belt and was whipping that poor kid?
ODUOLOWU: But, Dr. Drew, I do not think we should.
WATTS: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Because one of the things I heard everybody saying is, that is abuse. Abuse is an ongoing thing. That was a one-time incident.
PINSKY: One-time incident.
ODUOLOWU: So, let us stop jumping from abuse --
PINSKY: Abuse --
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: No, that is abuse. That is child abuse. That is a definition of child abuse.
ODUOLOWU: You know what? Go volunteer in a clinic like a do, sometimes and you will see what abused children look like.
PINSKY: There is chronic abuse. Yes.
ODUOLOWU: And, if it was a white guy, I would champion a white guy who did that.
[21:40:00] PINSKY: All right. Fair enough.
ODUOLOWU: There is chronic abuse and there is abuse, but I want to get a comment from the audience. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Well, I normally would not agree with putting your hands on somebody else`s child. I think that this man did
the boy a favor, because --
PINSKY: I wish.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I think that -- he could have potentially saved this boy from a life of crime. Now, while he did temporarily suffer
some humiliation and some pain --
PINSKY: Let me interrupt you. It is unfortunately, a fact, that it does not do that. It has the opposite effect. If it would do that
statistically --
KRAVITZ: May I --
PINSKY: No, it just does --
KRAVITZ: It is not temporary.
PINSKY: Jenna, please. Help me. Back me up with this.
KRAVITZ: You said a temporary, you know, humiliation. That is not temporary. He had tortured the kid, published it on social media, for
everyone to see.
ODUOLOWU: Torture?
KRAVITZ: Hold on. Hold on.
ODUOLOWU: Torture?
KRAVITZ: Hold on! OK, abused him. And, then crazily, at the end, he tried to establish a report and a mentorship with him. What a crazy --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And, what happened --
WATTS: It happens every day.
PINSKY: Wait. But you understand -- that is where the personality development gets a problematic.
KRAVITS: This is the exact ingredient, this kind of confusing message, where we see contribute to things like personality disorders.
PINSKY: That is absolutely true.
ODUOLOWU: Oh, gosh!
PINSKY: No, that is absolutely -- Listen, guys, we study psychology. You can go get a psychology degree and study this crap, because she has done --
ODUOLOWU: Of all of your empirical studies, how many were done on black people?
PINSKY: Lots of them! It does not matter on color.
WATTS: But it is a cultural difference. I think you are right. I think there is a cultural difference.
PINSKY: You know what? Rolonda is right --
CATHERWOOD: It is a cultural difference, but one of the most convenient and inexcusable scapegoats in the world is tradition. And, just to simply
say that in the Latino culture, in black communities, we have been doing this for a long time.
Does not in any way make it useful or right? It does not! And, it is no different than the millions of kids who call up to "Love Line" and they
say, "Well, I have been dating this guy for so long, why give up on him." Length of time or the tradition of doing something, does not in any way
make it useful.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: However -- however, you were right that there is an impact of authoritarian versus authoritative parenting. And, you are right that
African-American parents are more effective with this kind of discipline than other cultures. So, there is a culture component. But it is --
ODUOLOWU: But, do you know why? Do you know why? They used to -- Like, black parents used to beat their kids, so the kids would be in line. So
the kids would not act up outside, and the white people back in the day would kill them. So, it runs a little bit deeper --
PINSKY: You know why psychologists are fearful it happens? Because of intergenerational transmission of trauma, because somebody did it 150 years
ago and it just keeps happening over and over again.
ODUOLOWU: But, we see it happen over and over again.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am. Hang on. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Have you been to the jails? Have you been to the prison?
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Have you spoken to them?
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Have you spoken to the parents on how they were raised? Have you spoken to those of us who are educated and go to
school and know how we were disciplined? Uh-huh, it was not abuse. It was not abuse. It was discipline, because we did things that were wrong.
We were wrong. I got a look. I got a look. But we stayed out of jail and we are healthy. I am speaking. I am speaking. White people do things
differently. We cannot do that. You are watching them burn down our churches. You are watching them come into our churches and kill us.
I am tired of watching them killing my brothers. I am tired! I am going to discipline them before you get a chance to shoot them. You hear me. I
am going to save my brothers! You will do the right thing! You will stay out of jail! I am talking to all of you.
CATHERWOOD: That is a baseless argument.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I got to show up to work two hours early, because I get overlooked! You hear me? I am tired! It is a baseless
argument and I am tired!
CATHERWOOD: It is baseless argument. We are talking about punishment towards children --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No. We are talking about discipline --
CATHERWOOD: And if you interview 100 percent of the people in those prisons, and I guarantee, they say, "My parents beat me."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No. No. You are wrong! You are wrong.
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. We have somebody --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: You are wrong. You go talk to them. You are making stuff up.
CATHERWOOD: So are you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I speak to them.
PINSKY: Mike --
CATHERWOOD: Today, to beat a child, to prevent white people from killing them? That is mindlessly saying something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No. I am talking. Do not talk! Do not run your mouth without having facts. You go talk to them.
PINSKY: Danine, I need to tall to you.
CATHERWOOD: What facts are you presenting that if you are not beating a kid --
PINSKY: Danine, can you hear me? Danine -- Mike, you are not helping me. Jesus Christ!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Disciplined, that is not beating.
PINSKY: Danine.
MANETTE: Yes.
PINSKY: You work in the prisons, what are the facts?
MANETTE: I do.
PINSKY: What are the facts?
MANETTE: Yes. You know -- and Anneelise is absolutely right, Dr. Drew. If somebody came upon a scene with a white man beating a black boy,
surrounded by a bunch of white folks with cameras like a runaway, all hell would break loose. And, for anybody to say, that is not true, they are
lying.
PINSKY: So, what about what you see -- OK, I agree with you.
MANETTE: Number two.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: I have no problem with discipline. I have a problem with the fact that this man grabbed a belt and beat this other boy, this other
person`s child. That is the problem to me.
PINSKY: But Danine -- Danine, everyone is getting all upset. What about what this young lady was saying, because she is tired of seeing things that
we are watching on television that is horrible --
[21:45:00] MANETTE: The problem is --
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. Danine --
MANETTE: -- every kid, I guarantee you that.
PINSKY: In prison?
MANETTE: Every kid -- I have worked in juvenile hall for six years, every kid there was beaten. It was corporally punished.
PINSKY: Right.
MANETTE: So, it works for some people, it does not work for others.
PINSKY: Right.
MANETTE: You cannot just say across the board, beat your kids and they will stay out of jail.
PINSKY: That is right.
MANETTE: They end up in jail. They learn that violence is the way to do things. It is not appropriate.
GOETZ: That is right.
PINSKY: So you as someone who works in the criminal justice system on a daily basis --
MANETTE: Yes.
PINSKY: What you are telling me is, you are confirming what Mike is saying.
MANETTE: Yes.
PINSKY: You are confirming what I have experienced --
MANETTE: Yes.
PINSKY: That the physical violence sometimes does work and people do end up -- it is not as though you are necessarily going to have trouble --
MANETTE: Fear of a whooping works, too. I am going to whoop you! That will work too. If you whoop them one time, and then you do not have to
whoop them again. But this constant beating for everything. They learn to react through violence.
PINSKY: And, statistically --
MANETTE: That is the problem in our society.
PINSKY: Right. Statistically, the probability goes up, the more you see physical violence, right? Is that true?
MANETTE: Yes. That is how you learn to express yourself, physically.
PINSKY: All right. All right. So, we are going to keep the conversation going. We will be back right after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am going give you my number, you hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Yes, sir!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You call me! Listen, bro, listen, stop calling. I am going to take you to the park. We are going to hang out and
stuff! You feel me? I am going to check on, you, boy. We are going to get you grades up. You hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You hear me? I do not want you to go to jail. I started taking you to the police station. My debit card, my I.D., my
keys, everything was in there. Everything. For what? For nothing!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That video was posted to Facebook, 10 million views, tens of thousands of comments. Back with Rolonda, Anneelise, Mike, Danine,
Jenna,Segun, and we got a whole panel here and some great participation with audience.
Let me get more audience participation if possible here. Listen, one thing, Rolonda, to think is on one hand, I am very gratified to see this
guy do this. It is very satisfying, to see a kid immediately punished in a way that is like sort of primitively gratifying. But, you heard what
Danine said, the correlation with real problems --
WATTS: I know.
PINSKY: And it is a transgenerational trauma being transmitted there --
WATTS: I think you got 10 million hits on that, because people are so frustrated about really what to do. One of the things we do know is that
our teenagers desperately want and need discipline.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: I think that that a well-trained kid is a happy kid. And, I think that we are just frustrated that in society, what do we do? We got to save
our kids. Beating them may not be the issue. Taking them to the park, spending more time with them. But what we saw here was an example of the
whole village, trying to raise a good child. Where does that stop?
PINSKY: Can you give that woman -- can you take the mic back to woman -- I talked to you during the break a little bit. You, come back out. --
yes, yes. Give her the mic again. Come back out.
Because I asked her to stop, during the break, I went up and gave her a -- I shook her hand and I said, you know, sometimes I want to change the name
of this show to, what is wrong with us? What is wrong with us? Why cannot we get it together? What is wrong with us? You do not have any ill
towards anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No. We have been programmed to be segregated. My best friend is Filipino. My other best friend is Italian.
And, I would die, I would the crushed if I could not enjoy my friend. I think it is just --
PINSKY: But you also expressed your frustration at seeing the churches burning and all the crap --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes. No one is talking about it, like, you do not care. They care more about the gay marriages than they do people`s
lives, who are being killed.
PINSKY: No, we have been talking about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I do not see it.
PINSKY: Rolonda and I --
WATTS: Dr. Drew has been talking about it!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: OK, I am saying, social media posts, just different things. It is just like, it is there and then gone. People do
not keep it up. It is just like, "Oh, well, on to the next." It is not OK. We should care.
WATTS: But, on that note, I think this is a great opportunity to say, what will we as a communities do about our kids who are running around, ripping
off pants and --
PINSKY: But where is his dad? Where is his dad?! Where is his dad?
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, if his dad is not there --
WATTS: Wait, then your neighbor shows up!
ODUOLOEU: But if his dad is not there to raise him right, this guy took it upon himself to discipline this kid. We may have problems with the
discipline, but the first words out of his mouth, "I want to take you home to where you live, but you will not tell me where you leave." He was
trying to do right. So, he showed that kid, how they treat thieves in the street. OK?
WATTS: That is right.
ODUOLOWU: Now. We may not like the lesson, but it was definitely taught that you are not going to do that again.
PINSKY: Danine, you have something to say here? I hear you.
MANETTE: Yes. You know, my husband went through this same situation. He happened to see some boys breaking into our garage from the top window and
stealing my son`s bike. And, he ran downstairs, snuck up on them and confronted them in the garage and just started going off on them, yelling
and screaming, and grabbed one of the boy`s bikes.
He said, "I will just take your bike. How do you think that feels?" And they were terrified. They were sweating, but they got the message. He did
not need to put his hands on them.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: He went over and over and over, you know, what was important and what was not!
PINSKY: And, he did not get himself in any trouble. Danine, he, himself, did not get in trouble. Go ahead. Young lady.
MANETTE: Exactly! But it takes a community to pull these kids --
PINSKY: Yes. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I totally agree, it does take a village to raise a child. I do not believe that the man is wrong. I believe that
society is going to say that he is wrong, because we no longer care about our morals anymore. We care about the politics and the laws. And, the
laws say you should not whoop a child.
PINSKY: But, you know what? What is your name, sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Asia.
PINSKY: Asia, did some great rapping during the commercial breaks. Asia, I do, I care deeply, but I only care what really -- I am worried that, you
know, I am a clinician. I look at the science, what works, and that is what we apply. That is why we are able to deal with heart attacks.
[21:55:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: But like you said earlier, how history sort of repeats itself --
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: For African-Americans, it does work for us. Like she stated, we got disciplined. You got a whooping, you got the --
CATHERWOOD: I think that the argument is getting muddied here. It may be very effective, and it may not be something that he is doing wrong. But to
argue, to then say, to refute science that says, if you are violent to a child, that child has a much better --
PINSKY: Guys, listen --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: But if you take aside science and put your morals and faithful beliefs --
CATEHRWOOD: The truth can be truth --
PINSKY: Once again. I got to come back to the camera here again. I got to go to break. Be back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. It has been an interesting conversation. If you like this, please tweet us. Send us a Facebook post. Thank you for watching.
DVR us, so you can watch it again. Thank you for watching. Thank you for participating. We will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END.
END
