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CNN Novak, Hunt & Shields

Ted Kennedy Discusses Current Congressional Issues

Aired July 21, 2001 - 17:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AL HUNT, CO-HOST: I'm Al Hunt. Robert Novak and I will question the liberal lion of the United States Senate.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: He is Democratic Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK (voice-over): Since the Senate tipped from Republican to Democratic control, it has passed a patients' bill of rights opposed by President Bush, many of the president's nominees await Senate confirmation, and this week the new majority leader assailed Bush foreign policy as the president left for Europe. Senator Thomas Daschle, in an interview with USA Today, said, quote, "I think we are isolating ourselves. I don't think we are taken as seriously as we were a few years ago," end quote.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do believe it's important to have a bipartisan spirit when it comes to foreign policy, and I would hope that that tradition continues.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Had I given some thought to the fact that the president was departing, I probably would have chosen a different time to make those comments.

NOVAK: After 38 years in the Senate, Ted Kennedy, at age 69, is third in Senate seniority behind 98-year-old Strom Thurmond and 83- year-old Robert Byrd. Senator Kennedy, as chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, managed the Patients' Bill of Rights to passage and was lead Democrat when the education bill was passed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOVAK: Senator Kennedy, you've been around a long time, a lot longer than Tom Daschle. Do you think he made an error in violating custom, criticizing the president's foreign policy status as he set foot in Europe?

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Well, I think Tom Daschle himself has admitted that he wished he had made these comments at a different time, but I think the criticism was fair. When you look at the two leading positions that this administration and this president have taken, and that is ballistic missile defense, as well as the abandonment of the Kyoto treaty, these are two major defensive and environmental issues which the Europeans, and allies around the world, have very strong views. Those decisions were made in isolation.

Now the president is back in consultation with our allies. I think that's wise that he do so. But I don't think we can have an American foreign policy that is based upon going it alone.

NOVAK: Do you agree with Senator Daschle that President Bush has created a vacuum in the world that is going to be filled by somebody else other than the United States?

KENNEDY: I think it's fair to say that there's concern not only that Senator Daschle has -- I, others have had -- that America can't have a go-it-alone American foreign policy. And when you take those two principal positions which the president did in isolation, I think that's the real danger. That's a fair observation, it's a fair criticism, it's one that I support.

NOVAK: Put bluntly, after six months in office by President Bush, do you think he is up to the job?

KENNEDY: Oh, I think he's clearly competent for the job. I think with regards to foreign policy, it's too early to make a judgment upon these trips and the explanations of his positions on those two items with foreign policy leaders.

HUNT: Senator, let me turn to some domestic issues. The House, as you know, this past week passed the president's faith-based initiative legislation. Your colleague Joe Lieberman of Connecticut said some recently, I just want to read it to you. He said, quote, "We have too often dismissed and disparaged the importance of faith in American life and made the faithful feel unwelcome in our party, the Democratic Party, particularly if they're open and outspoken about their religion."

Do you agree with Senator Lieberman, and therefore do you think the Senate ought to quickly pass the faith-based initiative?

KENNEDY: I'm for the faith-based initiative. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor. But I am not for it at any price or any cost. And if this proposal were to be before the Senate and effectively wipe out other civil rights and other protections for Americans at the state level or local level, I think that ought to be altered or changed, or I think it'll be difficult to pass.

But the idea of working and finding various kinds of programs, particularly to help the needy and the poor, drug rehabilitation, many of these other programs, they are sound, they do work and they should be supported.

HUNT: You are a longtime advocate of prescription drugs benefits for seniors, yet the cost would be about $300 billion a year. With the budget problems you have now, you can't afford that, can you?

KENNEDY: I think we can. I regret the fact that the president's budget is so inadequate, $158 billion, and I regret the fact that the president didn't include enough in his budget for a robust program.

I think it would be a mistake for the Senate to pass a prescription drug program that is priced too high for seniors or is inadequate.

Look at it this way: If a senior on Medicare needs a treatment for heart disease, they get it. They don't get it with a discount card. This administration has represented a prescription drug program with a discount card. That's not going to cut it.

KENNEDY: We ought to have a good program. Today, prescription drugs are as necessary for our seniors as hospitalization and physician care. We have to meet our responsibilities to the seniors, who, when we passed Medicare that said, play by the rules, pay into Medicare and your health care needs will be protected; they aren't without a prescription drug program.

NOVAK: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to give you another chance to answer Al's question about whether you agree with Joe Lieberman, that the Democratic Party has made the people of faith feel unwelcome.

KENNEDY: The people of faith? I'd say no.

NOVAK: You don't agree with him?

KENNEDY: No. No, I'd mean I -- look, I grew up in a tradition of Democratic political leaders that had very strong beliefs in their religion and had demonstrated their devotion to the country in terms of patriotism and were very effective in being loyal Democrats.

And I always appreciate other people's devotion to their faith, but I'm always a little leery of those who don't think that other people should be respected as much for theirs.

NOVAK: Senator, when you were leading the way on the Patients' Bill of Rights, the Republicans kept nagging you that this bill was going to take uncovered people who are now covered by insurance -- that there would be millions and millions of people without health insurance. And you gave a very interesting reply. I'd like to play it back to you right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: We'll be back. We can give the other side the assurance, we'll be back. Through all those speeches that we've heard over the period of these past days about, "Well, why are we doing this when we've got so many people uninsured?" We'll be back with legislation on the uninsured.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Now, as I interpret that answer, I understood you to say that you're going to bring back HillaryCare, the President Clinton's and Mrs. Clinton's health plan which tried to cover everybody and, of course, was rejected -- not passed by the Senate in 1993 and '94. Am I correct? KENNEDY: Well, I'd be for a comprehensive care for all Americans at a price that people could afford to pay. But what we're talking about in this statement was, effectively, family care. There is a reserve fund that was in the budget that provides about $30 billion. That's not going to do everything that we would hope that it could've.

I would have hoped that we could've worked with the administration, taking the $30 billion that has been in there in the reserve fund, taking some of the $70 billion that the president had talked about -- that was in his initial program that was dropped in the conference by the Republican leadership -- put those two together and provided expansion for what we call the parents of CHIP.

Those are the working Americans that are just about $32,000, $33,000, $34,000 a year, do not have the resources to be able to purchase the program. The CHIP program has been successful. We ought to take care of the parents of the CHIP. That is the next legislation that we ought to address.

And the Democrats will have a program that will report out of the Finance Committee that will address that, and I think we'll do it before the August break.

HUNT: Senator, we have very little time left in this segment, and let me just ask you one question about a controversial issue. Your colleague, Senator Bill Frist, this week offered what some see as a middle ground on the embryonic stem cell research issue. He would allow continued federal involvement but with some restrictions.

Do you think this is the basis for a compromise? And can you go along with what Senator Frist has proposed?

KENNEDY: Yes, with some -- I think there are some aspects of it that are overly restrictive. But the basic answer to your question is yes.

Today there are millions of Americans that are suffering from Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, from diabetes. We have the opportunity to make breakthrough cures in these areas. And I don't think that we ought to restrict the opportunity to try and see what can be done to relieve real hurt that is taking place with people and their families in these dreaded diseases.

I think it has to be -- when we see what has happened in recent times with Republicans like Orrin Hatch, Bill Frist, who have been pro-life -- this should not get locked into ideology. It should certainly not get locked into political pundits making judgments on this.

This ought to be something that we can get behind. We ought to have the appropriate ethical considerations, but we must go forward. It is too great an opportunity to miss, and I strongly support the effort to move ahead and establish the kind of framework and the kind of protections that we did with the fetal tissue issue.

KENNEDY: There we established important protections, not only for government research, but for private research.

HUNT: Senator, we're going to take a break right now, but when we come back, we'll ask Ted Kennedy who he will confirm and who he won't confirm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Senator Kennedy, your colleague, Senator Charles Schumer of New York, has very frankly said that ideology should be a consideration when determining whether to confirm or not to confirm President Bush's nominees for judge. Do you agree with him?

KENNEDY: Well, in one respect, yes, although I would have put it in a different way. As you understand, the founding fathers thought that the Senate of the United States ought to be the nominating agency for the independent judiciary that was established by John Adams. The last compromise that was made was to have really a shared responsibility between the executive and the Congress. That's why I think most Americans think, whenever the president nominates, the Senate ought to rubber stamp them. I think that's wrong.

When a judge is selected solely for their philosophy, I think it is fair game to examine it. But I think what we want or the American people ought to expect are going to be judges that are going to have a commitment to the core values of the Constitution. I don't consider that necessarily an ideology. I think it's more of a philosophy. But as long as they have a commitment to the core values, then I think that they ought to be -- whether they are a Democrat or a Republican, they are going to be in the mainstream of judicial thinking and I think that they then should be confirmed.

NOVAK: Senator, you have voted against the confirmation of more nominees of five Republican presidents than any other United States senator. And since you've been in the Senate, you've voted against 62 nominees, 14 members of the Cabinet, 12 federal judges, including 7 Supreme Court justices, voted against George Bush Sr. for CIA director, David Souter for the Supreme Court, C. Everett Koop for surgeon general. Have you generally taken the attitude that a Republican nominee is guilty unless proven innocent?

KENNEDY: No. As a matter of fact, I've been here longer than any other senator, with the exception of Senator Byrd and Thurmond, as you mentioned.

I regret some of those votes. I regret the vote on Souter. I should have voted for him. And with regards to Koop to be the surgeon general, I should have voted in his favor. I think he was an outstanding surgeon general.

So I've tried to do the best on these matters. There are a number. I voted against Mr. Bork. I think that that was the right decision. I voted against Clarence Thomas. I defend that decision today. And I voted against Carswell and Haynsworth and I think I was right about Carswell. I think Haynsworth, perhaps, you can look at it both ways today. HUNT: Well, let's talk about a couple of nominees that are up now, about to be up. You've had Judge Terrence Boyle of North Carolina before your committee before. He's been nominated for the court of appeals. Is that...

KENNEDY: Well, he's up; we're going to have a chance to, sort of, look at him.

HUNT: Well, you know about him. Do you think he's qualified?

KENNEDY: I don't -- I'm not sure. I haven't made a judgment on that?

HUNT: How about Jeffrey Sutton of Ohio?

KENNEDY: I'm not going to go take -- on this program, go on through and make mention...

HUNT: Oh, go ahead.

KENNEDY: Oh, no I won't on these particulars.

KENNEDY: We just passed Judge Gregory and we're considering other nominees. This isn't -- this ought to be -- we ought to have nominees that have not only the intelligent and the temperament and the ability, but also have that core commitment. And we have...

HUNT: Are you going to support...

KENNEDY: If I can finish.

HUNT: Yes, sir.

KENNEDY: We have a tighter rule, in terms of the Supreme Court, than we do for the circuit or for the district. And so, you may say that there is one person you might vote for the circuit, but not for the Supreme Court. I'm not going to consider my positions on this.

HUNT: How about Mr. Reynolds for assistant secretary of education for civil rights, will you support that and will there be a vote on the Senate floor?

KENNEDY: He raises serious questions with regards to his record on civil rights and on women's issues. And I think there's going to be a thorough review of his record. I think there are serious kinds of questions, and I don't know what the outcomes going to be.

NOVAK: Let me get a quick question in before we have to take a break, Senator.

The Democrats, the chairman of the Budget Committee, Senator Conrad, has said we're running out of money. Would you think that now is the time for the Democratic majority in the Senate to roll back those tax cuts over the next decade, those across-the-board tax cuts, in view of the declining surplus? In effect, taking away the tax cut that have already been... KENNEDY: Well, I think, first of all, I think it is wise to give thoughtful consideration to Kent Conrad's analysis of what the budgetary situation is, because I think he makes a very, very convincing case that we are in the process now of using Social Security and the danger of using the Medicare and that we're really dipping into the trust fund. I'm convinced that that is taking place at the present time.

Beyond that, what I come down to revisiting some of the aspects of the tax, yes, I would. I don't expect that particularly the third of the tax break that we're giving to the top 1 percent of American taxpayers, I think that that is probably the area that could be reviewed so that we could afford a prescription drug program so that we could make sure that we're going to get the funding in education, and thirdly, so we can get the funding that's going to be necessary for national defense which we're going to be short of.

HUNT: Senator, we're going to have to take a break now. But we'll be back in just a minute with "The Big Question" for Ted Kennedy.

(COMMERCIAL)

HUNT: "The Big Question" for Senator Kennedy: You are a strong advocate of campaign reform and a major power in the Massachusetts Democratic Party. Your state's basically unaffected by redistricting, you keep your 10 seats. Yet the speaker of the Massachusetts, Thomas Finneran, proposes to wipe out the district of Marty Meehan, the prime proponent in the House of campaign finance reform. Do you think that's the message the Democratic Party of the Bay State wants to send?

KENNEDY: I think, first of all, it's regrettable that the speaker didn't meet his commitment and give an up-and-down vote on the Shays-Meehan.

HUNT: The speaker of the U.S....

KENNEDY: In the House of Representatives on that. And I think that's regrettable. And we're going to come back to that one way or the other; either he's going to give the vote or we're going to tag the finance reform on different legislations and send it back.

Secondly, I like Marty and I admire him. And I think the fact that people that have the trust and confidence and also have the ability to impact national legislation, as he has, is certainly a strong consideration. And I would think, quite frankly, the kind of recommendation that was made by Joe Moakley, in terms of the allocation of seats, made more sense.

But with this proposal, there is the possibility, for the first time, of a minority representation in the city of Boston, which we have not had, and it also gives additional, kind of, a benefit into southeastern Massachusetts.

I would have preferred the Moakley. And I like Marty Meehan and I think he can continue to serve in good order. But there's pluses and minuses in that proposal, but we shouldn't get away from the fact that we ought to get a vote on campaign financing in the House.

NOVAK: Well, we're really out of time. I'd just like a quick answer, Senator. Your junior colleague, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, makes no secret that he's running for president. If he actually runs for president, will you automatically endorse him?

KENNEDY: I'm working hard for John Kerry to be re-elected. That's what he's campaigning for and that is what his focus, his intention, and he will be re-elected.

And I think it's important for all Democrats to focus on 2002. We've seen what a difference Democratic leadership has made in the United States Senate in these past weeks with that Patients' Bill of Rights.

KENNEDY: We want to continue that trend. We'll let 2004 take care of itself.

NOVAK: Senator Edward M. Kennedy, thank you very much.

Al Hunt and I will be back with a comment after these messages.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: Bob, I was fascinated by his response to your question about nominees he had opposed. He said he regretted opposing Judge Souter, he regretted opposing C. Everett Koop. But, you know, he didn't say he regretted opposing George Herbert Walker Bush as CIA director.

NOVAK: Al, unless I misheard, I think I heard the senator say he would like to roll back those tax cuts that were just passed, especially those for the most productive elements of society, the people who can put them to work for the economy, and that's just what the people in the Bush administration have been saying: The Democrats want a tax increase.

HUNT: Bob, you know, he's been there for 32 years, as you said, but whether it's HMO, whether it's prescription drugs, whether it's education, he is the liberal lion, but he also is the legislative lion. He's right in the middle of everything in the Senate.

NOVAK: He is a real piece of work. He loves to talk about policy. I think he could go on a long time. And the one word that has really gotten out of his vocabulary is centrist and moderate. He is a real liberal, and he's very proud of it.

I'm Robert Novak.

HUNT: And I'm Al Hunt.

NOVAK: Coming up in one half-hour on "RELIABLE SOURCES," a look back at the leadership and life of newspaper publisher Katharine Graham with The Washington Post's Bob Woodward. And coming at 7:00 p.m., the "CAPITAL GANG" talks about President Bush's foreign policy under attack. World Affairs expert Zbigniew Brzezinski and conservative activist Grover Norquist join THE GANG.

HUNT: Thanks for joining us.

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