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CNN Novak, Hunt & Shields
Interview With Senator-Elect John E. Sununu
Aired November 09, 2002 - 17:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: I'm Robert Novak. Al Hunt and I will question one of the newly elected Republican senators in the GOP takeover of the U.S. Senate.
AL HUNT, CO-HOST: He is John E. Sununu of New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Republicans achieved a net gain of at least two senators in the midterm elections, regaining a Senate majority after a year and a half of Democratic control.
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: We had strong leadership from the president, I think we had good candidates, I think we had a good strategy led by Bill Frist in the case of the Senate Campaign Committee, and I do on the issues we had the issues with us. The war against terrorism, security here at home, strong national defense, and dealing honestly with the economy.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: People were concerned about national security, and that precluded us from having the opportunity to break through on the issues that we cared most about -- the economy, education and health care. There's no question that the president's position was very popular, very strongly supported.
HUNT: Congressman Sununu won 51 percent of the vote against three-term Democratic Governor Jeanne Shaheen in the New Hampshire contest that was considered pivotal in the battle for control of the Senate. Senator-elect Sununu has an engineering degree from MIT and an MBA from Harvard. He was a corporate chief financial officer until his election in 1996 to the House of Representatives, where he was named vice chairman of the Budget Committee last year.
To reach the Senate, he defeated two-term Republican Senator Bob Smith in the GOP primary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUNT: Robert Novak is in San Francisco, and Senator-elect Sununu joins us from Manchester, New Hampshire.
First, congratulations, Mr. Sununu.
JOHN E. SUNUNU (R-NH), SENATOR-ELECT: Thank you. Thanks, Al.
HUNT: Let me ask you this. What was the mandate that you and a number of your GOP colleagues received last Tuesday?
SUNUNU: Well, I don't think I've ever used the word "mandate" in my life, but I think it was a clear message that on issues important to the country by all accounts, the economy and national security, a message, a plan beats no plan at all, and we had a message on the economy of making the tax cuts permanent, knocking down trade barriers, putting in place an energy policy, and I think the voters responded to that in a similar way on national security. We've been working to create a Department of Homeland Security. That bill was stalled by the Democrat leadership in the Senate, and I think on the issues, the voters responded, they agreed more with the Republicans than with Democrats. We saw that in New Hampshire, but I think we saw it nationally.
HUNT: You don't agree then that it was the foreign policy issues and the terrorism and homeland security that dominated domestic issues as some Democrats claim?
SUNUNU: No, I don't think there was a dominance, and here in New Hampshire, I think it's fair to say people were probably a little bit more focused on the economy and taxes. It played into my election. I think it has an impact on the Senate race, but also on the gubernatorial contests, even the state Senate races. Taxes and the economy were an issue, and I think Republicans were more focused, more unified, with a message, and that doesn't mean everyone in the country or everyone in New Hampshire agrees on every point of that message, but people want to see candidates that have a clear vision of where they think we should be headed, and voters will respond.
HUNT: Along that line, one theme I think in your campaign, other campaigns across the country, was that you wanted to get something done. There was a criticism of the Democratic obstructionism in the Senate. Are we to assume from that therefore that you could take most of what the House has passed over the last year and a half, much of which has been resisted by the Senate, on the economy, on the environment, on a whole host of other issues, and that that will sail through the Senate next year?
SUNUNU: Well, I don't know that I'd use the word "sail," but I think it will move a number of key pieces of legislation, and we can start with making the tax cuts permanent. I think we'll see the completion of action in the Senate over the next year on the tax relief package. Welfare reauthorization. Welfare reform in '96 was very successful. We reauthorized it in the House. Hasn't gone anywhere in the Senate. Perhaps the Medicare prescription drug package and the homeland security bill.
These are all important pieces of legislation. We have pretty strong support nationally for, as you put it, getting something done on these bills, and with the Republican majority now in the Senate, I think it will be easier to get them to the floor and to complete work.
NOVAK: Congressman Sununu, in Saturday's "New York Times" on the front page, there was a story about interviewing voters on what happened Tuesday and they led off with a Manchester, New Hampshire resident who had voted for Al Gore for president in 2000 but voted for you for the Senate because he has come to admire President Bush and President Bush asked for New Hampshire residents to support you. Can you say frankly that you owe your Senate election to George W. Bush?
SUNUNU: Well, I think that's a little bit of hyperbole. I was very pleased and honored to have the president come in and campaign for me for the Senate race. He did a great job of highlighting the issues we just talked about, how important it is to get a Department of Homeland Security, how important it is to make the tax cuts permanent, that Republicans had a much stronger positive message on the economy and national security, but I pointed out to the president on election night what I was really thankful for is to have Mrs. Bush come in the next day, Saturday morning. That was at least as well covered. She did a wonderful job, reaching out.
We did an event in the 2nd District where I ran weaker because I hadn't campaigned there on the ballot before, and we had Rudy Giuliani in on Monday night. All three of those visits were important in helping to control and drive the media. That's always important for a candidate. And the president did a wonderful job carrying a positive focus message on the economy, national security not just in New Hampshire but all across the country.
NOVAK: Congressman, a lot of people in New Hampshire, Republicans included, thought you made a political mistake in coming out for the flat tax. Governor Shaheen pounded you on that. Now that you're going to be in the Senate, will you press actively in the Senate for the enactment of a tax reform that has a flat tax?
SUNUNU: Well, I've always pushed for tax reform. You know that I favor a flat tax, but anything we can do to simplify the tax code is good for the economy, it's great for taxpayers. And it minimizes the frustration, the cost of compliance, the complexity, the fact that we have to rely on tax lawyers. All of that needs to be addressed somehow.
I don't know that there are many people in New Hampshire who thought it was a mistake. Of course, when you get pundits from Washington that come into New Hampshire, they are always looking for the mistake that's being made. I never think it's a mistake to stand up for an idea you believe in. I was willing to stand up and talk about strengthening Social Security, adding personal accounts to Social Security, you point out, reforming the tax code, never shied away from talking about reasonable, fiscally responsible prescription drug benefit for Medicare.
Even in the face of criticism, as a candidate, if you're willing to stand up and let people know what you stand for and why, I think they're going to respect you for it. They may not agree with you on every issue, but they want someone who's going to be a strong voice and a leader on the tough issues, and that's exactly what I presented in the campaign.
NOVAK: Senator Bob Smith never really gave you much help in that campaign and there was a write-in in his behalf. Do you think that that was one of the reasons why this was, after all, a pretty close race? You got 51 percent of the vote. Do you think that Senator Smith's supporters hurt you?
SUNUNU: Well, he received about .5 of a percent on the write-in. I won by a little better than 4 percent overall, 51 to 47. Believe me, I was plenty pleased with the margin. There were people that thought this would be a recount and it would go to midnight, and it might be .5 percent margin. At the end of the day, we saw Republican voters come out strongly and support Republican candidates.
I did very well among the independent voters, both in my congressional district and the 2nd congressional district. And I think it had to do with the ideas we were talking about.
After the primary, I reached out, tried to get every Bob Smith voter I could. The state representatives and state senators that supported him in the primary came onboard, helped me out. A number of his staff members came on and were making phone calls and working wards on my behalf, and I couldn't be more grateful. Every vote counts, every vote matters, and in New Hampshire, the key was to get out there, campaign person to person, and work personally with those voters that had questions, that wanted to hear more from me before being willing to commit.
HUNT: Mr. Sununu, let me ask you a quick question. When it comes to the economy, are -- do you think that President Bush ought to keep his current economic team, including Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, would you be pleased if he did that, or do you think maybe now is the time to bring in a couple additions to that economic team?
SUNUNU: Well, listen, I'm thrilled to be a member of the United Sates Senate, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start dispensing advice to the president about who he should and shouldn't appoint at that secretary level. I like Paul O'Neill. I think he's smart, I think he's got a wealth of experience. His problem, to the extent that he has one, is in Washington. He's direct and honest with people. He tells people what he really believes, and sometimes that rubs people the wrong way, but I'm not going to offer the president advice on who he should or shouldn't add to his economic team.
I think they've done a good job. I think the key now is to move important pieces of legislation, like tax relief, making the tax cuts permanent. I'd love to see the tax simplification that Bob talked about. I imagine the president will work and complete work on some trade agreements that knock down trade barriers around the world, submit those to Congress for approval in the near future. All of those lay a foundation for future economic growth, and that's what we should all be focused on right now.
NOVAK: Congressman, we have to take a break. But I want to give you a quick question. Governor Shaheen is under some criticism from Democratic activists of being too accommodationist toward the president, being supportive of him when she should have been attacking him. Do you think that her attitude toward the president actually helped your campaign?
SUNUNU: That's really hard to say. Democrats did it across the country. They stood up and they said that they supported him on Iraq or they supported the tax cuts. In general, putting those two issues aside, they didn't differentiate themselves enough as a party. It wasn't clear what they stood for. There was a lot of talk about what they were opposed. They didn't want to modernize Social Security, they didn't like our prescription drug benefit for Medicare, they didn't want to make the tax cuts permanent, but there wasn't a very positive message there or vision. That was the case certainly here in New Hampshire, but I think you saw it all across the country, with a lot of Democrat candidates that weren't successful.
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break, and when we come back, we'll ask John E. Sununu, the senator-elect, what ought to be done in a session where he won't be in the Senate, the lame-duck session.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: Congressman, as you noted, you did not run away from the Social Security issue in this campaign, unlike some of your other GOP candidates. You joined the issue. Do you think that Social Security overhaul, partial privatization of Social Security ought to be enacted in this upcoming Congress?
SUNUNU: I'd like to see it enacted in this upcoming Congress.
HUNT: Do you think it will be?
SUNUNU: In order for it to be, in order for us to make real progress on the issue, the president does have to exert his leadership role, use the power of the presidency and the bully pulpit. We have to be focused. We'll need to have taken care of the tax relief, making the tax cuts permanent, a prescription drug benefit for Medicare, the homeland security bill. All of those would have to be off the table so that we can focus as a Congress and the president can focus on the importance of this issue, because it won't be easy.
But I'd like to get to that point and I'd like to see the president play his hand, if you will, work on legislation, develop consensus and bring it to the floor of the House and Senate.
HUNT: I was in New Hampshire for one debate where you did bring up the Social Security issue, but one thing you did not talk about was the so-called transition costs, which most experts say would be over $1 trillion if you went to partial privatization. It may well (UNINTELLIGIBLE) over the long run, but it would be a short-term cost every 10 years of about $1 trillion. Is it your feeling that we can just add to the budget deficit or that we ought to cut something else in order to pay for that transition cost?
SUNUNU: Well, we make decisions and priorities in the budget process all the time. We certainly shouldn't raise taxes to deal with the transition costs. If we have an effective proposal, one that's an actuarial balance that extends the life of the trust fund, it will, in effect, pay for itself by increasing the rate of return in the long run, extending the solvency beyond the 40-year timeframe.
So I don't believe we need to raise taxes. I'd like to see us work toward a balanced budget as quickly as possible. We saw four years where we had surpluses in excess of the Social Security surplus, so we know if we control spending, and get the economy growing, we're going to see strong revenue growth that can help compensate for any short term, as you put it, transition costs and still keep the budget in balance.
NOVAK: Congressman Sununu, in Washington on Tuesday, the lame- duck Congress, that is the Congress -- the old Congress, not the new people such as you, will convene. Senate Republican leader Trent Lott would like to pass appropriations and -- for the next year and go home quickly, but the president is urging and pressing him to pass the homeland security bill in this lame-duck session. Who is right?
SUNUNU: Well, I think Senator Lott's concern is that there's rarely been a lame-duck session that's been especially productive, that it will be a challenge to pass a homeland security bill quickly and effectively with all the parameters that we'd like to see, in other words, a bill similar to the House version, and he doesn't want to bring it up if there's opportunities to attach extraneous measures, to attach riders, to attach pieces of legislation that will add to the controversy or the complexity.
If there's an opportunity to pass it swiftly and cleanly, then I think it ought to be taken up, but in the Senate where you're dealing with a 49-49 Senate right now in the lame-duck, that's incredibly difficult.
NOVAK: So you suggest it might be wise to pass a continuing resolution for spending and wait until January when the reinforcements of John E. Sununu and others arrive?
SUNUNU: Well, I'm not saying that either. Look, I don't think I'm the answer to the problem. I don't know that one vote will make an enormous difference, but the concern is whether or not people would try to throw all kinds of additional measures on there, whether you get caught up with liability issues or tort reform issues, someone wants to add terrorism insurance to it. There are all kinds of ways for mischief to be created in the Senate, and I think it's a real question of how determined and willing the old Democrat leadership in the Senate is to try to complete work on this issue now.
I think if there's a cooperative spirit, I think if there's a bipartisan spirit that this is something that should be addressed now, because waiting another two months carries with it risks of not being prepared if we have another crisis in the country, then it will get done, but the challenge is doing it quickly and effectively without getting bogged down in delaying tactics.
HUNT: Mr. Sununu, the United Nations Security Council, as you know, voted unanimously to require Saddam Hussein to dismantle his weapons of mass destruction, to allow inspectors in. If Saddam plays his usual games and cheats on that and doesn't fully cooperate, should the United States go and take him out militarily first, or should we go back to the U.N. first?
SUNUNU: Well, I think the Security Council will always have the ability to act, to act with a resolution that authorizes perhaps the use of a Security Council or United Nations forces to help enforce compliance with the inspections. They'll have an opportunity to act, but the United States has been clear, Congress has spoken in a bipartisan way that the president should have flexibility diplomatically and militarily to force Saddam Hussein to comply with those resolutions to disarm, and to free political prisoners, to end the oppression of minority populations in the northern and southern part of the country.
All of those were spoken to in the debate in the House and Senate before passing the resolution on Iraq, so if there's a failure to comply with this weapons inspection cycle, if we don't have confidence that Iraq has fully disarmed, then I think you will see some level of action of the United States in concert with our coalition partners.
NOVAK: OK. We have to take another break, and when we come back, we'll have "The Big Question" for Senator-elect John Sununu of New Hampshire.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: "The Big Question" for Senator-elect John Sununu of New Hampshire. Senator-elect Sununu, your fellow New England Senator James Jeffords of Vermont gave control of the Senate to the Democrats 20 months ago when he crossed the aisle. Do you think now that the Republicans are back in the majority, that there should be retribution against Senator Jeffords?
SUNUNU: Oh, I think you were going to ask me if I thought he would switch back. I don't think there will be retribution in the Senate. I think people understand that he made a decision that he thought was right at the time. I don't think retribution serves any real purpose. I think we're going to focus on getting work done, getting important legislation passed over the next two years.
HUNT: Mr. Sununu, you've been a Bush supporter throughout the campaign on this show today. Is there any issue that you can envision you voting against the president's requests next year?
SUNUNU: Any piece of legislation? Look, sure, I have voted against the president on steel tariffs. I've voted to toughen clean air standards, ozone standards on power producers in the Midwest. There's probably some environmental issues, some conservation issues where there's probably a little bit of difference between me and the president, but the fact of the matter is, he's provided good leadership on the economy, good leadership on national security, and that's why I'm proud to call him my president.
HUNT: Well, thank you very much for being with us today, Senator-elect Sununu. Bob Novak -- we're going to take a break now -- Bob Novak and I will be back with a comment or two in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: Bob, you know, John Sununu's victory just broke Democratic hearts. They thought they could win that seat. He ran a good campaign and also for him, he was fortunate, he inherited his mother's, as opposed to his father's charm.
NOVAK: But he inherited his father's brains. He's a very smart fellow, as you could tell, and I think he's independent-minded. He indicated to me, Al, that he disagreed with the president on trying to use this lame-duck session to pass a homeland security bill when you've only got 49 senators. Maybe they ought to wait until January.
HUNT: Yeah, he during his campaign did not run away from the flat tax or Social Security partial privatization. I think that makes him somewhat unique. I think this -- don't look for enactment in this coming Congress. Most Republicans will run away from those hot issues.
NOVAK: This is the last edition of "NOVAK, HUNT & SHIELDS," which began 20 years ago as "EVANS & NOVAK." In hundreds of interviews, we have pressed the world's leading newsmakers for their views, and permitted them to express them with a minimum of interruption and harassment. They included Boris Yeltsin, Tony Blair, Yitzhak Rabin, Hafez Al-Assad, Walter Mondale, Gerald Ford, George W. Bush, Al Gore, Colin Powell and many others.
Twenty years is a long time for a television program, and we are grateful to CNN sticking with us, and particularly appreciative of you, faithful viewers. So, thank you, and goodbye.
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Aired November 9, 2002 - 17:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: I'm Robert Novak. Al Hunt and I will question one of the newly elected Republican senators in the GOP takeover of the U.S. Senate.
AL HUNT, CO-HOST: He is John E. Sununu of New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Republicans achieved a net gain of at least two senators in the midterm elections, regaining a Senate majority after a year and a half of Democratic control.
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: We had strong leadership from the president, I think we had good candidates, I think we had a good strategy led by Bill Frist in the case of the Senate Campaign Committee, and I do on the issues we had the issues with us. The war against terrorism, security here at home, strong national defense, and dealing honestly with the economy.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: People were concerned about national security, and that precluded us from having the opportunity to break through on the issues that we cared most about -- the economy, education and health care. There's no question that the president's position was very popular, very strongly supported.
HUNT: Congressman Sununu won 51 percent of the vote against three-term Democratic Governor Jeanne Shaheen in the New Hampshire contest that was considered pivotal in the battle for control of the Senate. Senator-elect Sununu has an engineering degree from MIT and an MBA from Harvard. He was a corporate chief financial officer until his election in 1996 to the House of Representatives, where he was named vice chairman of the Budget Committee last year.
To reach the Senate, he defeated two-term Republican Senator Bob Smith in the GOP primary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUNT: Robert Novak is in San Francisco, and Senator-elect Sununu joins us from Manchester, New Hampshire.
First, congratulations, Mr. Sununu.
JOHN E. SUNUNU (R-NH), SENATOR-ELECT: Thank you. Thanks, Al.
HUNT: Let me ask you this. What was the mandate that you and a number of your GOP colleagues received last Tuesday?
SUNUNU: Well, I don't think I've ever used the word "mandate" in my life, but I think it was a clear message that on issues important to the country by all accounts, the economy and national security, a message, a plan beats no plan at all, and we had a message on the economy of making the tax cuts permanent, knocking down trade barriers, putting in place an energy policy, and I think the voters responded to that in a similar way on national security. We've been working to create a Department of Homeland Security. That bill was stalled by the Democrat leadership in the Senate, and I think on the issues, the voters responded, they agreed more with the Republicans than with Democrats. We saw that in New Hampshire, but I think we saw it nationally.
HUNT: You don't agree then that it was the foreign policy issues and the terrorism and homeland security that dominated domestic issues as some Democrats claim?
SUNUNU: No, I don't think there was a dominance, and here in New Hampshire, I think it's fair to say people were probably a little bit more focused on the economy and taxes. It played into my election. I think it has an impact on the Senate race, but also on the gubernatorial contests, even the state Senate races. Taxes and the economy were an issue, and I think Republicans were more focused, more unified, with a message, and that doesn't mean everyone in the country or everyone in New Hampshire agrees on every point of that message, but people want to see candidates that have a clear vision of where they think we should be headed, and voters will respond.
HUNT: Along that line, one theme I think in your campaign, other campaigns across the country, was that you wanted to get something done. There was a criticism of the Democratic obstructionism in the Senate. Are we to assume from that therefore that you could take most of what the House has passed over the last year and a half, much of which has been resisted by the Senate, on the economy, on the environment, on a whole host of other issues, and that that will sail through the Senate next year?
SUNUNU: Well, I don't know that I'd use the word "sail," but I think it will move a number of key pieces of legislation, and we can start with making the tax cuts permanent. I think we'll see the completion of action in the Senate over the next year on the tax relief package. Welfare reauthorization. Welfare reform in '96 was very successful. We reauthorized it in the House. Hasn't gone anywhere in the Senate. Perhaps the Medicare prescription drug package and the homeland security bill.
These are all important pieces of legislation. We have pretty strong support nationally for, as you put it, getting something done on these bills, and with the Republican majority now in the Senate, I think it will be easier to get them to the floor and to complete work.
NOVAK: Congressman Sununu, in Saturday's "New York Times" on the front page, there was a story about interviewing voters on what happened Tuesday and they led off with a Manchester, New Hampshire resident who had voted for Al Gore for president in 2000 but voted for you for the Senate because he has come to admire President Bush and President Bush asked for New Hampshire residents to support you. Can you say frankly that you owe your Senate election to George W. Bush?
SUNUNU: Well, I think that's a little bit of hyperbole. I was very pleased and honored to have the president come in and campaign for me for the Senate race. He did a great job of highlighting the issues we just talked about, how important it is to get a Department of Homeland Security, how important it is to make the tax cuts permanent, that Republicans had a much stronger positive message on the economy and national security, but I pointed out to the president on election night what I was really thankful for is to have Mrs. Bush come in the next day, Saturday morning. That was at least as well covered. She did a wonderful job, reaching out.
We did an event in the 2nd District where I ran weaker because I hadn't campaigned there on the ballot before, and we had Rudy Giuliani in on Monday night. All three of those visits were important in helping to control and drive the media. That's always important for a candidate. And the president did a wonderful job carrying a positive focus message on the economy, national security not just in New Hampshire but all across the country.
NOVAK: Congressman, a lot of people in New Hampshire, Republicans included, thought you made a political mistake in coming out for the flat tax. Governor Shaheen pounded you on that. Now that you're going to be in the Senate, will you press actively in the Senate for the enactment of a tax reform that has a flat tax?
SUNUNU: Well, I've always pushed for tax reform. You know that I favor a flat tax, but anything we can do to simplify the tax code is good for the economy, it's great for taxpayers. And it minimizes the frustration, the cost of compliance, the complexity, the fact that we have to rely on tax lawyers. All of that needs to be addressed somehow.
I don't know that there are many people in New Hampshire who thought it was a mistake. Of course, when you get pundits from Washington that come into New Hampshire, they are always looking for the mistake that's being made. I never think it's a mistake to stand up for an idea you believe in. I was willing to stand up and talk about strengthening Social Security, adding personal accounts to Social Security, you point out, reforming the tax code, never shied away from talking about reasonable, fiscally responsible prescription drug benefit for Medicare.
Even in the face of criticism, as a candidate, if you're willing to stand up and let people know what you stand for and why, I think they're going to respect you for it. They may not agree with you on every issue, but they want someone who's going to be a strong voice and a leader on the tough issues, and that's exactly what I presented in the campaign.
NOVAK: Senator Bob Smith never really gave you much help in that campaign and there was a write-in in his behalf. Do you think that that was one of the reasons why this was, after all, a pretty close race? You got 51 percent of the vote. Do you think that Senator Smith's supporters hurt you?
SUNUNU: Well, he received about .5 of a percent on the write-in. I won by a little better than 4 percent overall, 51 to 47. Believe me, I was plenty pleased with the margin. There were people that thought this would be a recount and it would go to midnight, and it might be .5 percent margin. At the end of the day, we saw Republican voters come out strongly and support Republican candidates.
I did very well among the independent voters, both in my congressional district and the 2nd congressional district. And I think it had to do with the ideas we were talking about.
After the primary, I reached out, tried to get every Bob Smith voter I could. The state representatives and state senators that supported him in the primary came onboard, helped me out. A number of his staff members came on and were making phone calls and working wards on my behalf, and I couldn't be more grateful. Every vote counts, every vote matters, and in New Hampshire, the key was to get out there, campaign person to person, and work personally with those voters that had questions, that wanted to hear more from me before being willing to commit.
HUNT: Mr. Sununu, let me ask you a quick question. When it comes to the economy, are -- do you think that President Bush ought to keep his current economic team, including Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, would you be pleased if he did that, or do you think maybe now is the time to bring in a couple additions to that economic team?
SUNUNU: Well, listen, I'm thrilled to be a member of the United Sates Senate, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start dispensing advice to the president about who he should and shouldn't appoint at that secretary level. I like Paul O'Neill. I think he's smart, I think he's got a wealth of experience. His problem, to the extent that he has one, is in Washington. He's direct and honest with people. He tells people what he really believes, and sometimes that rubs people the wrong way, but I'm not going to offer the president advice on who he should or shouldn't add to his economic team.
I think they've done a good job. I think the key now is to move important pieces of legislation, like tax relief, making the tax cuts permanent. I'd love to see the tax simplification that Bob talked about. I imagine the president will work and complete work on some trade agreements that knock down trade barriers around the world, submit those to Congress for approval in the near future. All of those lay a foundation for future economic growth, and that's what we should all be focused on right now.
NOVAK: Congressman, we have to take a break. But I want to give you a quick question. Governor Shaheen is under some criticism from Democratic activists of being too accommodationist toward the president, being supportive of him when she should have been attacking him. Do you think that her attitude toward the president actually helped your campaign?
SUNUNU: That's really hard to say. Democrats did it across the country. They stood up and they said that they supported him on Iraq or they supported the tax cuts. In general, putting those two issues aside, they didn't differentiate themselves enough as a party. It wasn't clear what they stood for. There was a lot of talk about what they were opposed. They didn't want to modernize Social Security, they didn't like our prescription drug benefit for Medicare, they didn't want to make the tax cuts permanent, but there wasn't a very positive message there or vision. That was the case certainly here in New Hampshire, but I think you saw it all across the country, with a lot of Democrat candidates that weren't successful.
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break, and when we come back, we'll ask John E. Sununu, the senator-elect, what ought to be done in a session where he won't be in the Senate, the lame-duck session.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: Congressman, as you noted, you did not run away from the Social Security issue in this campaign, unlike some of your other GOP candidates. You joined the issue. Do you think that Social Security overhaul, partial privatization of Social Security ought to be enacted in this upcoming Congress?
SUNUNU: I'd like to see it enacted in this upcoming Congress.
HUNT: Do you think it will be?
SUNUNU: In order for it to be, in order for us to make real progress on the issue, the president does have to exert his leadership role, use the power of the presidency and the bully pulpit. We have to be focused. We'll need to have taken care of the tax relief, making the tax cuts permanent, a prescription drug benefit for Medicare, the homeland security bill. All of those would have to be off the table so that we can focus as a Congress and the president can focus on the importance of this issue, because it won't be easy.
But I'd like to get to that point and I'd like to see the president play his hand, if you will, work on legislation, develop consensus and bring it to the floor of the House and Senate.
HUNT: I was in New Hampshire for one debate where you did bring up the Social Security issue, but one thing you did not talk about was the so-called transition costs, which most experts say would be over $1 trillion if you went to partial privatization. It may well (UNINTELLIGIBLE) over the long run, but it would be a short-term cost every 10 years of about $1 trillion. Is it your feeling that we can just add to the budget deficit or that we ought to cut something else in order to pay for that transition cost?
SUNUNU: Well, we make decisions and priorities in the budget process all the time. We certainly shouldn't raise taxes to deal with the transition costs. If we have an effective proposal, one that's an actuarial balance that extends the life of the trust fund, it will, in effect, pay for itself by increasing the rate of return in the long run, extending the solvency beyond the 40-year timeframe.
So I don't believe we need to raise taxes. I'd like to see us work toward a balanced budget as quickly as possible. We saw four years where we had surpluses in excess of the Social Security surplus, so we know if we control spending, and get the economy growing, we're going to see strong revenue growth that can help compensate for any short term, as you put it, transition costs and still keep the budget in balance.
NOVAK: Congressman Sununu, in Washington on Tuesday, the lame- duck Congress, that is the Congress -- the old Congress, not the new people such as you, will convene. Senate Republican leader Trent Lott would like to pass appropriations and -- for the next year and go home quickly, but the president is urging and pressing him to pass the homeland security bill in this lame-duck session. Who is right?
SUNUNU: Well, I think Senator Lott's concern is that there's rarely been a lame-duck session that's been especially productive, that it will be a challenge to pass a homeland security bill quickly and effectively with all the parameters that we'd like to see, in other words, a bill similar to the House version, and he doesn't want to bring it up if there's opportunities to attach extraneous measures, to attach riders, to attach pieces of legislation that will add to the controversy or the complexity.
If there's an opportunity to pass it swiftly and cleanly, then I think it ought to be taken up, but in the Senate where you're dealing with a 49-49 Senate right now in the lame-duck, that's incredibly difficult.
NOVAK: So you suggest it might be wise to pass a continuing resolution for spending and wait until January when the reinforcements of John E. Sununu and others arrive?
SUNUNU: Well, I'm not saying that either. Look, I don't think I'm the answer to the problem. I don't know that one vote will make an enormous difference, but the concern is whether or not people would try to throw all kinds of additional measures on there, whether you get caught up with liability issues or tort reform issues, someone wants to add terrorism insurance to it. There are all kinds of ways for mischief to be created in the Senate, and I think it's a real question of how determined and willing the old Democrat leadership in the Senate is to try to complete work on this issue now.
I think if there's a cooperative spirit, I think if there's a bipartisan spirit that this is something that should be addressed now, because waiting another two months carries with it risks of not being prepared if we have another crisis in the country, then it will get done, but the challenge is doing it quickly and effectively without getting bogged down in delaying tactics.
HUNT: Mr. Sununu, the United Nations Security Council, as you know, voted unanimously to require Saddam Hussein to dismantle his weapons of mass destruction, to allow inspectors in. If Saddam plays his usual games and cheats on that and doesn't fully cooperate, should the United States go and take him out militarily first, or should we go back to the U.N. first?
SUNUNU: Well, I think the Security Council will always have the ability to act, to act with a resolution that authorizes perhaps the use of a Security Council or United Nations forces to help enforce compliance with the inspections. They'll have an opportunity to act, but the United States has been clear, Congress has spoken in a bipartisan way that the president should have flexibility diplomatically and militarily to force Saddam Hussein to comply with those resolutions to disarm, and to free political prisoners, to end the oppression of minority populations in the northern and southern part of the country.
All of those were spoken to in the debate in the House and Senate before passing the resolution on Iraq, so if there's a failure to comply with this weapons inspection cycle, if we don't have confidence that Iraq has fully disarmed, then I think you will see some level of action of the United States in concert with our coalition partners.
NOVAK: OK. We have to take another break, and when we come back, we'll have "The Big Question" for Senator-elect John Sununu of New Hampshire.
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NOVAK: "The Big Question" for Senator-elect John Sununu of New Hampshire. Senator-elect Sununu, your fellow New England Senator James Jeffords of Vermont gave control of the Senate to the Democrats 20 months ago when he crossed the aisle. Do you think now that the Republicans are back in the majority, that there should be retribution against Senator Jeffords?
SUNUNU: Oh, I think you were going to ask me if I thought he would switch back. I don't think there will be retribution in the Senate. I think people understand that he made a decision that he thought was right at the time. I don't think retribution serves any real purpose. I think we're going to focus on getting work done, getting important legislation passed over the next two years.
HUNT: Mr. Sununu, you've been a Bush supporter throughout the campaign on this show today. Is there any issue that you can envision you voting against the president's requests next year?
SUNUNU: Any piece of legislation? Look, sure, I have voted against the president on steel tariffs. I've voted to toughen clean air standards, ozone standards on power producers in the Midwest. There's probably some environmental issues, some conservation issues where there's probably a little bit of difference between me and the president, but the fact of the matter is, he's provided good leadership on the economy, good leadership on national security, and that's why I'm proud to call him my president.
HUNT: Well, thank you very much for being with us today, Senator-elect Sununu. Bob Novak -- we're going to take a break now -- Bob Novak and I will be back with a comment or two in just a moment.
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HUNT: Bob, you know, John Sununu's victory just broke Democratic hearts. They thought they could win that seat. He ran a good campaign and also for him, he was fortunate, he inherited his mother's, as opposed to his father's charm.
NOVAK: But he inherited his father's brains. He's a very smart fellow, as you could tell, and I think he's independent-minded. He indicated to me, Al, that he disagreed with the president on trying to use this lame-duck session to pass a homeland security bill when you've only got 49 senators. Maybe they ought to wait until January.
HUNT: Yeah, he during his campaign did not run away from the flat tax or Social Security partial privatization. I think that makes him somewhat unique. I think this -- don't look for enactment in this coming Congress. Most Republicans will run away from those hot issues.
NOVAK: This is the last edition of "NOVAK, HUNT & SHIELDS," which began 20 years ago as "EVANS & NOVAK." In hundreds of interviews, we have pressed the world's leading newsmakers for their views, and permitted them to express them with a minimum of interruption and harassment. They included Boris Yeltsin, Tony Blair, Yitzhak Rabin, Hafez Al-Assad, Walter Mondale, Gerald Ford, George W. Bush, Al Gore, Colin Powell and many others.
Twenty years is a long time for a television program, and we are grateful to CNN sticking with us, and particularly appreciative of you, faithful viewers. So, thank you, and goodbye.
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