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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Trump On Trial; Second Day Of Testimony In Trump's Hush Money Trial; David Pecker Buried True And False Stories; Pro-Palestinian Protesters Arrested; Tesla's Rough Ride; Tesla's Profit Tumble; China's Ultra-Casual Dress Code; "Gross" Work Outfit Protest; U.S. Foreign Aid; TikTok Bill; Interview With Representative Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL); Cartoon Controversy; Evidence Suggests Some U.S. Cartoons Made In North Korea; NASA's Deep Space Probe Back In Touch With Earth. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 23, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Also follow the show on X, @TheleadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of "The Lead," you can listen to

the show. All two hours, whence you get your podcasts. Our coverage continues now with one Mr. Wolf Blitzer in a place I like to call "The

Situation Room."

I will see you tomorrow. Thanks for watching.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It's 6:00 a.m. in Shanghai, 11:00 p.m. in London, and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And

wherever you are in the world, this is your "First Move."

And a warm welcome once again to "First Move." And here's today's need to know. Hush money. Former tabloid boss David Pecker telling a New York court

how he buried true and false stories that could hurt Donald Trump's 2016 election campaign.

Deepening divides. Pro-Palestinian protesters arrested amid escalating tensions on U.S. college campuses.

Cartoon controversy, questions over whether U.S. studios unknowingly used animations created in North Korea.

And Voyager revitalized. NASA's deep space probe finally phones home from 15 billion miles away. All that and plenty more coming up.

But first, gripping scenes in a New York courtroom today at Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial, David Pecker, a former tabloid publisher who's

known Trump for years, testified for nearly two hours. He admitted to catching and killing stories that may have been damaging to candidate Trump

during his first run for the White House.

The day began with a contentious hearing on whether Trump had violated a gag order. He's banned from speaking publicly about witnesses and jurors.

Trump slammed the gag order while speaking to reporters outside the courtroom. Paula Reid has a look at the second day of testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former National Enquirer publisher David Pecker back on the witness stand today

where he shared details of his decade's long friendship with Donald Trump and how he eventually used his position to help Trump in the 2016 election.

Under questioning from prosecutors, Pecker described a meeting he had with Trump and his former attorney, Michael Cohen, in 2015, where they asked,

what can I do, and what my magazine could do to help the campaign? Pecker testified that he responded saying, what I would do is I would run or

publish positive stories about Mr. Trump, and I would publish negative stories about his opponents. I said, I would be your eyes and ears.

He told the jury he saw the agreement as mutually beneficial. It would help his campaign and it would also help me. Pecker said he began meeting with

Cohen a minimum of every week, and if there was an issue, could be daily. He said would go directly to Cohen when confronted with a negative story

about Trump.

The prosecution questioned Pecker in detail about a doorman who tried to sell a story about Trump allegedly fathering a child with another woman as

Trump sat in court and shook his head. Packer said he directed the editor of the Enquirer to negotiate a number, a price to buy the story and take it

off the market. The doorman was paid $30,000 for the story, even though it later proved to be false.

Pecker told the court, if the story got out to another publication or another media outlet, it would have been very embarrassing to the campaign.

Pecker claimed if the story were true, it would probably be the biggest sale of the National Enquirer since the death of Elvis Presley. But then

admitted if it were true, he wouldn't have published the story until after the election.

But before Pecker even took the stand, the proceedings began with a heated hearing on the gag order imposed on Trump in this case. The prosecution

asked the judge to order Trump to remove specific posts they allege violate the gag order and fine him $1,000 for each of the alleged violations. And

remind him that incarceration is an option should it be necessary?

The defense attorney, Todd Blanche, argued that Trump did not willfully violate the gag order and claimed Trump believes reposting others

assertions or content is not a violation. But the hearing became heated at one point with the judge telling Blanche, you're losing all credibility

with the court.

Paula Reid, CNN New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: OK. Let's take a quick look at some of the legal questions in this case. Gene Rossi is former federal prosecutor and he joins us now.

Gene, great to have you with us.

What the prosecution are trying to establish in this case is that the former president entered into some kind of an agreement with David Pecker,

who obviously was giving a statement today, and the former lawyer, of course, Michael Cohen, to kill bad stories ahead of the 2016 election.

[18:05:00]

The payments in order to kill those stories would then constitute election interference. Is that what we're sort of hearing and building from those

statements that we heard today?

GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Absolutely. In August of 2015, there was a meeting among Donald Trump, Michael Cohen, and David Pecker, and at

that meeting in the Trump Tower, they hatched a three-legged stool called The Scheme to do three things.

One, to publish stories that help Trump. Two, to publish stories that trash Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton. But the third leg of that school was to catch

and kill stories that would be damaging to Donald Trump. And they would do that by using money that was not reported on tax returns and on federal

election commission reports. That's the crime.

CHATTERLEY: And just to be clear, catch and kill, as we talk about it, catch a story, pay over some money, kill it, is not a crime. You can

question ethics, you can question morals, that's not a crime. What we have to tie it to, or what, at least, the prosecution has to tie it to, is

campaign ties to prevent damage being done in the campaign of 2016.

ROSSI: Exactly. You are absolutely right. I can have somebody make an allegation about me and I could pay him to shut up, but what you can't do

is to have somebody else pay that person and not report it as a contribution to your campaign. That's crime number one.

Crime number two is you can't make false documents and claim that payment as a business deduction on your corporate tax return. That violates the tax

laws. So, there are essentially two crimes that were committed as a result of these schemes.

CHATTERLEY: At one point, what we heard today as well was David Pecker giving a story that was 1,000 percent untrue, to use his quote, that Trump

had fathered a child outside of his marriage. The National Enquirer paid, he said, for that story and killed it allegedly. And, and the prosecutor,

Joshua Steinglass, said to him, look, if it's not true, why would you pay for it? And his quote was, if it got out to another publication or another

media outlet, it would have been very embarrassing to the campaign. There we go again.

Gene, if you were the defense looking at this, and I know I'm jumping ahead, how do you defend this kind of statements? You've got to separate

campaign from hush money payments.

ROSSI: You hit the nail on the head. If I were the defense attorney for Mr. Trump, Former President Trump, you have to cut the cord between the false

invoices, there are 34 of them, that say legal expenses, those invoices are false. But you have to cut the cord that connects them to illegal activity,

whether it's campaign hush money, or failure to file election -- proper election law forms, or taxes. There's a connection that has to be made, and

I would try to cut that cord if I were the defense attorney.

CHATTERLEY: How?

ROSSI: Well, you could say that the false invoices had nothing to do with his campaign. The false invoices had nothing to do with him protecting his

candidacy. And the false invoices had nothing to do with cheating on your taxes. That's all he can do. That's all he can do.

CHATTERLEY: Which goes back to the reliability of the witnesses that are going to be used throughout this case. I think in both cases. Can we talk

about the gag order?

ROSSI: Sure.

CHATTERLEY: And there was a sort of heated debate this morning. President Trump came out of court today and said, look, it's all unconstitutional.

Under this gag order, he's banned from publicly discussing both witnesses or the jurors in this case. How is he being treated, Gene? If this weren't

a former president, if this were not Donald Trump, how would an individual that was talking the way that he talks and posts on social media, for

example, be treated in this case?

ROSSI: I did 110 federal trials for the U.S. Justice Department. I have never seen a defendant or litigant that was allowed to do what he is

allowed to do as a petulant child. If Donald Trump changed his name to Donald Smith, he would be treated a lot differently. He's actually getting

favorable treatment. He's getting unequal treatment, but it inures to his benefit. He has repeatedly, I got to stress, he has repeatedly violated the

gag order. And all this judge is able to do with him is give him a slap on his wrist.

[18:10:00]

But here's what's really hurting Donald Trump, and it came out today. He is losing credibility with the judge, but more important, and people need to

talk about this, he is causing his attorney in the eyes of the judge to lose credibility. And as an attorney in court, many times, if a judge loses

credibility with you as an attorney, that is very bad for your client, whether it's the United States or a defendant.

So, Mr. Blanche took some hits today, and it's probably not a good omen for the rest of the trial that the judge is losing faith in anything he says.

CHATTERLEY: Actually, this is the critical point that I wanted to ask you, who it hurts most in this case. Should the judge be sterner with the former

president in order to protect him in many respects from himself? Because you can lose credibility if you're the defense lawyer with the judge, which

is one thing, but also lose it with the jury, which is perhaps a far more important issue at this moment.

ROSSI: Well, I can tell you one thing I would do if I were a judge, and I don't want to be a judge maybe for a year. I would issue two rulings

tomorrow or Thursday. Number one, Mr. Trump, I'm not allowing you to have your cell phone inside this courtroom. Because you're using it to post on

Truth Social. Number two, I am prohibiting you on the grounds of this courthouse to give a press conference or statement to the press. You can go

to Trump Tower. You can go on television. You can go on radio or TV. But you can't do it inside this courthouse or within a hundred feet. That's

what I would do.

CHATTERLEY: Well, watch this space. Gene, great to have you with us. Thank you so much. Gene Rossi.

ROSSI: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right. Straight ahead, Tesla on the road again. Shares of the EV company have been on a rough ride this year. A new product

announcement could turn things around, or could it after a bumpy first quarter?

Plus, young people in China are getting a dressing down at the office. Wow, that penguin. And they're loving it. A new ultra-casual dress code is all

the rage in the Chinese workplace. We'll explain why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:09]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." U.S. universities are struggling to defuse tensions on campuses over the war in Gaza. Pro-Palestinian

demonstrations are spreading across the nation at Massachusetts powerhouses, Harvard and MIT, at Boston's Emerson, Yale in Connecticut,

California's UC Berkeley, the Universities of Minnesota and Michigan, all joining Columbia and NYU. Well, hundreds of people have been arrested over

the past few days.

Isabel Rosales joins us now from Emerson College in Boston. Isabel, great to have you with us. I think what people are struggling most with is trying

to separate what's viable, allowed protest, what turns into hate speech and intimidation, and what's going on within campuses versus outside. Because I

believe what -- where you are right now is outside Emerson College.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Julia. That is correct. Listen, I've been to some of the most prestigious campuses in America here in the

last two days, Yale, Harvard, MIT. I'm here at Emerson, right outside Emerson College right now.

In the case of Yale, Monday morning, we saw tensions rising between police and protesters to the point that just under 50 of them were arrested for

refusing their orders to vacate the property, vacate the encampment, essentially calling them trespassers.

Here at Emerson, we're seeing this large crowd of just over 20 tents set up here in this alleyway leading up to the college signage. Food, water. This

is a very organized demonstration happening here. Over at MIT, we saw just over 20 tents in front of the chapel in solidarity with the students at

Columbia University, but they were quiet.

Listen, a lot of these students were on their laptops. Frankly, it appears just doing homework. They had the signs up. They were welcoming people to

conversations and discussions, and there have been no reports of any arrest there or here at Emerson College.

But we did get a sense on campus of the differences of opinions. There was a student organization, MIT Israel Alliance, that actually wrote to school

leadership saying that they felt unsafe on campus. Claiming that a lot of the students had actually left their dorms ahead of Passover and are

staying with relatives just because they felt so unsafe on campus. Claiming also that the encampment was anti-Jewish.

Then there's a different Jewish group called the MIT Jews for a Ceasefire. And I asked them specifically about that. Here was their response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can it be an anti-Jewish encampment when a large part of the people who are helping put it on is a Jewish community? We're

out here because we know that there's no life as normal when there's no life as normal in Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: And clearly, a diversity of opinions here because no group is a monolith, right? I did ask that organizer, too, what would happen if the

school asked them to take down those tents, to disperse of that encampment? And that organizer told me that they will not leave. They will not put away

those tents until their demands are met. And my team, meanwhile, tells CNN that they are determining the next steps here in regards to those tents.

Meanwhile, at Harvard, that is a closed campus, a Harvard Yard. The entrances leading into that student area, they were closed with signage

saying that this is only open to those with a student ID. And we did, in fact, see a Harvard school member checking IDs before anyone could come on

to campus. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating, isn't it? It's sort of reminiscent of The Occupy Movement, where you had people that were not necessarily from

the community sort of joining in to show some form of solidarity.

So, who are the people in the tents behind you then? They're not students. They're just there to express support.

ROSALES: We've tried to ask that question in these different campuses, trying to understand get a sense of, you know, are these students here? And

you'll get different sort of answers and an acknowledgement in the case of MIT. We've gotten from press releases, from these organizers that, yes,

these are student-run demonstrations, but they also have people from outside of student grounds, of campus grounds that are also showing in

support of this movement.

Of course, that is unsettling to some people as we saw from one of the Jewish organizations saying that they don't feel safe with anyone just

walking onto campus and joining on something that they don't feel is authentic and coming from the actual student organization. So, a lot of

different answers here, Julia, depending on who you talk to.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that's part of the problem, that the leaders of these universities are dealing with. Where do you draw the line on all of these

things? Isabel, great to have you with us. Great to get your perspective. Thank you. Isabel Rosales there.

[18:20:00]

OK. Let's move on to a triumphant Tuesday on Wall Street. And that's topping today's "Money Move." U.S. stocks rallying for a second straight

session driven by solid earnings from General Motors, package delivery firm UPS, and music streaming service Spotify. The S&P and Nasdaq popping, as

you can see there, more than 1 percent.

It wasn't all good news, though. Shares of PepsiCo falling almost 3 percent on sales concerns. It says lower income consumers are pulling back on

spending, carrying the parent company of Gucci, also warning of sluggish demand for luxury items in China, too.

A mixed day in Asia, the Hang Seng rising almost 2 percent, but a dismal first day of trade for the largest IPO launch. In Hong Kong this year,

shares of China bubble tea maker Chapanda finished down more than 26 percent. It is China's third largest retailer of freshly made tea drinks.

Some incorrect pricing taking place there.

Now, Tesla just released quarterly results. Also, not investors cup of tea. Profits for the EV giant plunge by almost a half missing expectations by a

margin. Revenue also fell more than expected. Shares, however, soaring more than 11 percent in afterhours trade, perhaps tied to new product news.

Tesla says it's pushing ahead with a lower priced vehicle. A report earlier this month said it was ditching plans for a cheaper car to focus on

robotaxis.

Paul La Monica, senior markets analysis writer at Barron's, joins us now. Paul, always a pleasure to have you on the show. It could also be a case of

buy the rumor, sell the fact or vice versa, given how far this stock has fallen. But do you think it was ultimately the fact that they haven't

abandoned this lower priced car that perhaps is giving investors a bit of heart and hope here?

PAUL LA MONICA, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: I think that is a big part of it, Julia, the Model 2, there were reports that maybe Tesla was going to be

abandoning it. It does not appear obviously at all that that is the case. Not just that, it sounded as if, you know, the possibility of these cars

hitting the road is going to be sooner than a lot of investors had hoped and dreamed for.

Now, we know that Elon Musk is notorious for setting deadlines that are maybe a little too hard to it, and then they missed them. But right now,

Julia, I think investors are ecstatic. The stock is up more than 10 percent because there are hopes that you could see the Model 2 and other new models

out sometime in early 2025, which is, I think, earlier than expected.

And, you know, also, they are still plowing forward with the robotaxis, which apparently Elon Musk says will be called the cyber cab. So, if anyone

wants to kind of be their own mini-Uber or Lyft -- you know, personal Uber or Lyft driver, they can have these automated cabs go out and do pickups,

and there's a hopeful new revenue stream for Tesla coming from that.

CHATTERLEY: The cyber cab. It's been a tumultuous run into these earnings. Let's be clear. They have cut or are cutting more than 10 percent of staff.

There's questions over the Chinese demand story, which was a big deal, I think, for many of these analysts. Not only that competition, whether it's

traditional automakers or the Chinese automakers. And just this past weekend, we've seen them cutting U.S. prices as well by around 2K for,

what, Y, X, and S.

Paul, what is the big challenge here? Is it what many analysts foresaw, which is increasing competition? This was always going to be an issue?

LA MONICA: Yes. Definitely. Competition has increased around the world. Obviously, in the U.S., you have many of the major big three automakers,

G.M. and Ford, most prominently coming at Tesla, also European automakers.

But I think there are also concerns in China. You're not just with some of the pure play electric car companies, but with Xiaomi, the smartphone

maker, also looking to get into the EV world in a way that apparently Apple is no longer doing so with them abandoning their EV plans.

But, you know, I spoke to an analyst for a story recently who mentioned that, let's be honest, a lot of these electric vehicles, because of the

over air software updates, they kind of are like mobile operating systems on wheels with an electric motor. So, I think it's going to be very

fascinating to see what the new competition from tech companies in China looks like.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating, isn't it? That there's also this assumption that the tensions over technology, between the United States and

China, and I think most people agree that's only going to build, but that somehow Apple and Tesla can withstand this as two massive operators in

China, even as they perhaps try and diversify. We'll catch up on that again.

[18:25:00]

I think one of the big questions for me is the conference call. We know that Elon Musk can be vibrant, punchy, testy at times. And I think Dan Ives

is a great example, a regular on this show. He's asked for an adult in the room this time around because people do want clarity on the future. What

have we heard so far? I know that it's been -- what, it's been on for about an hour and now you're talking to me, so you're not listening. But anything

standout to you so far?

LA MONICA: Yes, I've been following the live coverage from my colleague out route at Barron's and it sounds like that so far, from what he has been

reporting, that Musk has delivered on that notion of sounding like a reasonable, responsible CEO.

There is, of course, the usual musky and hyperbole, if I could call it that, but I don't think he's gone so far overboard that you have bears and

short sellers scratching their heads and saying, you know, what is he talking about now? There's no way he can deliver. I think investors are

excited.

And let's be honest here, Tesla shares plunged more than 40 percent so far this year, heading into this earnings report, the bar was set incredibly

low. So, I think Musk realized this is not the time to try and have pie in the sky proclamations. They have to execute and show Wall Street that they

are a legitimate car company that can compete with the G.M.s and Volkswagens and Toyotas of the world and should be taken seriously. So, so

far, it looks like job well done.

CHATTERLEY: I know. I'm sure you and I are both speaking to investors that are both rubbing their hands together. All they need is something calm and

collected on this call and they'll look at it as a time to buy. Paul, great to have you. Thank you. Paul La Monica there.

LA MONICA: Thank you, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: All right. Turning now from cars to clothes. In China, the term dress for success has a lot less cachet among young people than perhaps it

used to. Workers upset about their job prospects and the soft economy are staging unique rebellions both in the office and online.

Marc Stewart, you'll be pleased to know, dressed up for the dressing down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For some young people here in China, what I'm wearing right now may be considered too dressed up, too formal for the

workplace. Part of a bigger online movement reflecting concerns of this current generation.

We've been scouring social media. And essentially, young people are wearing what's being called gross work outfits. We saw a young man wearing a

flannel shirt and sweatpants, a young woman in pajamas and a bulky sweater. Business suits and high heels are out. Puffy jackets and slippers are in.

These videos that are circulating are going viral. It's a reflection of protests, bad bosses, low pay, and long hours in the workplace. An

extension of sorts of the lie flat movement, rejecting consumerism and the office rat race. It's a statement about the rough economy here in China.

In fact, if you look at government data, the jobless rate for young people was nearly 15 percent in December 2023. Many young people don't feel

optimistic. Some of the postings online have messages such as, my ugly outfit matches my salary, and how gross my work is, how gross will my

outfit be.

We've seen generations express themselves through art, music, and writing, and for the current moment here in China, fashion.

Marc Stewart, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: Some people were so dressed up that you could viably substitute yourself with a friend. You wouldn't even notice. That might be an option

as well.

Now, from dress codes to drenched landscapes, take a look at this video of a car being swept away. Southern China is dealing with massive flooding.

And bad news is, there's more heavy rain on the way. Chad Myers has the details. He's always dressed for success. But this looks quite frightening.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It really is. I mean, we've had 200 millimeters in some spots and another maybe 300 to go. I mean, so what you

see there may be exacerbated by the time we work our way through Friday.

Not many showers out there right now in China. Things have calmed down, especially for Southern China. Most of the rainfall has moved offshore. But

even in the last 24 hours, 92 millimeters in places that don't need any more rain because it's already running off. It already looks like this.

There's already water in roadways. There's water in homes. In thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of homes here in parts of China.

There you see some of the downtown residential areas all the way up to the front room windows there. So, an awful lot of water coming down and still

more to come down today.

[18:30:00]

The flood risk isn't as bad today as it will be tomorrow because the rain comes back tomorrow. And there are places here, just north of Hong Kong,

including Hong Kong proper and not that far your north, that will get another 250, a quarter of a meter of rainfall. So, you just start adding

that up and you're looking at nine, 10 inches in some spots.

And yes, Taiwan, those are some ugly colors for you too. That's 250 and more for you. So, you could be somewhere in the ballpark of 10 more inches

of rainfall to come, and that's on a hillside that's going to have to run downhill. Hong Kong, thundershowers, thunderstorms all the way through the

week.

A little bit of cold air here in parts of Europe, and it's been cold. Cold enough in Helsinki to do that to the daffodils. Come on. You don't get

daffodils, paper whites, blue bonnets, and then all of a sudden get snow on top.

I know you love snow, but Julia, this is a little bit too late.

CHATTERLEY: I don't like snow on my daffodils, Chad. Frozen daffodils.

MYERS: That's right.

CHATTERLEY: Not my style. Yes. Yes. Crazy weather. Chad Myers, great to have you.

MYERS: You bet.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. We'll be right back. Stay with "First Move."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" with a look at more of the international headlines this hour. The second day of Donald Trump's

criminal hush money trial has wrapped.

David Pecker, a former tabloid publisher who's known Trump for years, testified for nearly two hours. He admitted to "catching and killing"

stories that may have been damaging to Candidate Trump during his first run for the White House.

The U.S. Department of Justice will pay $139 million to the victims of Larry Nassar, the former doctor of the National Gymnastics Team. More than

100 women and girls claim the FBI initially failed to investigate their allegations of sexual abuse. Nassar was sentenced in a state court to 40 to

175 years in prison.

[18:35:00]

The City of Baltimore, Maryland is suing the owner of a container ship that destroyed a bridge across its harbor. The ship's manager is also named in

the suit. It accuses them of negligence and providing the wrestle with an incompetent crew. The ship rammed into the bridge last month after losing

power.

And the U.S. Senate is on track to approve a $95 billion foreign aid package. The vote is expected to take place late Tuesday or early

Wednesday. The package, which passed the House on Saturday, would provide nearly $61 billion for Ukraine, over $26 billion for Israel, and more than

$8 billion for Taiwan and other allies in the Indo-Pacific region.

Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic majority leader, said the money sends a strong message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): To our friends in Ukraine, to our allies in NATO, to our allies in Israel, and to civilians around the world in need of

help, help is on the way. And to the whole world, make no mistake, America will deliver on its promise to act like a leader on the world stage, to

hold the line against autocratic thugs like Vladimir Putin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: One of the bills has a provision that would ban TikTok in the United States if its Chinese owner doesn't sell its stake within a year.

Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, co-author of that bill, had this to say on social media, my TikTok divestment bill passed by the House this weekend is

not about TikTok. It's about its parent company, ByteDance, which is controlled by the Chinese Communist Party and is working to advance the

CCP's interests.

And I'm pleased to say Congressman Krishnamoorthi joins us now. He serves on the House Intelligence Committee and a select committee on China.

Congressman, thank you so much for your time this evening.

You've been very clear that this is the only way, in your mind, to tackle the national security threat that ByteDance and their ownership of TikTok

presents. How confident are you now that China will turn around and say, OK, we'll sell it?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): I don't know. It's up to them. It's up to ByteDance. It's up to the CCP. It's up to its paramount leader, Xi Jinping.

That's how high up the echelon this particular decision will be made.

And it actually demonstrates very clearly why we're so concerned about TikTok. The fact that the CCP and its paramount leader will have to decide

shows the connections between the platform and the CCP.

Just to refresh the facts here, the editor in chief of ByteDance is the secretary of the CCP cell embedded in the company to control all of its

products, including TikTok to make sure they adhere to "correct political direction." And so that, along with other issues concerning the platform is

what drove 360 members of the House to vote for passage of the bill, and it's getting considered in the Senate right now.

CHATTERLEY: The problem that you've got is that for all users of social media, there's a willing exchange, the use of the social media platform

versus effectively giving up their data. That's the deal. Would you agree it's now in the Communist Party, in China's interest just to sit on this,

refuse to sell and watch TikTok users and millions of small businesses that rely on the platform to show their frustration at congressmen like you and

at the Biden administration for putting what is something that they love at risk and threatening to take it away from them?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: They might try that. But you have to recognize that the Chinese economy right now is tanking and they are very, very much looking

to get foreign investors to come into the country and help to shore up the economy.

So, at the same time they're doing that, do they want to send a message to foreign investors who aspire to be as successful as investors in ByteDance

that their investment could be zeroed out or nationalized for political purposes? I think it would send them -- send those investors packing, thus

hurting the economy more.

Now, with regard to your other point, with regard to political pressure on folks like me and others, they actually launched an influence campaign,

TikTok did, on the very day of consideration of our bill in the Committee of Jurisdiction called the House Energy and Commerce Committee. They sent

out a push notification with a pop up to millions of users, including minor children, basically appearing to compel them to press a button to call

their member of Congress to lobby them against the bill in order to use the app.

[18:40:00]

That infuriated lawmakers. Why? Because the platform was basically using the geolocation data of minor children to compel them to call without their

parents' consent. And when they flooded our offices with thousands of phone calls, they asked the question, what is a congressman? What is Congress?

Can I have my TikTok back?

Now, imagine if they use the same influence campaign in a motion -- in a moment of national peril, whether it was a natural disaster or potential

conflict or election day. That is the very threat that helped to convince so many lean yeses, people who were considering voting for the bill to

become solid, strong yeses.

So, they can do all the pressure campaigns they want. But so far, they have tremendously backfired.

CHATTERLEY: On the day that President Trump -- sorry, President Biden, forgive me, signs this bill, would you like to see him off TikTok?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I'm not going to tell the president how to campaign. It's not on my personal phone, and it's banned from all of our government

devices.

It's legal right now, obviously, for hundreds of millions of people around the world, including here. I would just say, be cautious on how you use it.

We know that TikTok's own representations about its platform have now been proven false, the ones they made before Congress. So, just be cautious.

CHATTERLEY: And consistent, perhaps in the message, too. But I'll read between the lines on your answer on that one. Let's broaden this out,

because this, obviously, was part of -- and is a part of a broader package of House approved aid so far for Ukraine, for Israel, for Taiwan, of

course, and others in the Indo-Pacific.

One senior senator, Bernie Sanders, came out today and called on the Senate to vote to strip offensive military aid to Israel as a result. And if we

look across the country, there are voters, Democrats in particular, that are very conscious and aware of what's taking place in Gaza. And I think

perhaps would have some sympathy for this. Fine, you can have aid. You don't get weaponry. Congressman, where do you stand on that?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I supported the package in the House. Now, I suspect that it's going to pass with tremendous support in the Senate right now. As you

know, it's going as one package. I don't know how the Senate will consider amendments. But, you know, however, their process is, it will unfold. But I

suspect the whole package will get voted favorably out of the Senate by tomorrow night.

CHATTERLEY: Would you be in favor of restrictions though on weaponry to Israel?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, and there are restrictions right now --

CHATTERLEY: More restrictions?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: -- on this weaponry. Well, the White House very much clarified in something called National Security Memorandum 20, it's also

known as NSM-20. The restrictions that will be on this aid and any other arms transfers to Israel or any other country, they have to comply with

humanitarian law.

So, in other words, there can't be blockage of massive humanitarian aid now or into the future. And after the World Food Kitchen incident, we have to

absolutely make sure of that. The other thing is it has to comply with the rules of war. And so, we are waiting for those certifications, of course,

from the White House by May 8th.

But in the meantime, you know, we have to make sure Iron Dome, Arrow -- the Arrow system, Iron Beam, and the other defensive systems are fully

replenished. We saw what happened a couple weeks ago with regard to Iran. We can't leave them out in the lurch here.

CHATTERLEY: Congressman, thank you so much for your time. Great to chat to you, sir, and hopefully, we'll chat again soon.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Hey, thank you so much.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK. Straight ahead. The dark truth behind some of America's most popular cartoons. We dig into evidence that suggests they

could be animated in North Korea, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:47:07]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." U.S. researchers have discovered a trove of documents inside a computer server housed in North Korea. Now,

evidence in those files suggest U.S. studios unknowingly outsourced animation work for popular cartoons to those in enemy territory. Alex

Marquardt has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Invincible" is a popular animated show streaming on Amazon Prime, with a

third season on the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your power's got to be due any day now, son.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): It's based on a comic book about a superhero team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wasn't ready before.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): While its main character is all American, some animation in the new season may come from one of America's biggest foes,

North Korea.

Martyn Williams is a North Korea analyst at the Stimson Center.

MARTYN WILLIAMS, STIMSON CENTER SENIOR FELLOW: I'll show you what we found.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): He shows us what was inside a recently discovered North Korean Internet server.

WILLIAMS: There's a bunch of working files in here files.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Files, including sketches and video from North Korea, which resemble the animation from two shows produced and streamed by

American companies, Amazon's "Invincible" and another coming soon called "Iyanu: Child of Wonder," set to stream on MAX, which along with CNN, is

owned by Warner Brothers Discovery.

There's no evidence that the studios knew that any proprietary work was on a North Korean server.

WILLIAMS: At some stage in this production process, these files appear to be being worked on by the North Koreans.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): There's a clip of "Iyanu," which hasn't been released yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, me, spare your life.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Williams says a lot of American production work is outsourced, particularly to China, where it could then be subcontracted to

North Koreans without the American companies' awareness.

WILLIAMS: It's very common. Numerous Chinese companies have been sanctioned by the U.S. for working with North Korea, not just in animation, but in

other areas, as well.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): A draft of one animation has Chinese instructions translated into Korean. There's also this production sheet in English for

"Invincible."

MARQUARDT: Is there any evidence that the American studios knew about this?

WILLIAMS: We didn't find any evidence that they had any direct knowledge of any of this. We found some names of some animations. We found the names of

some U.S. companies, but nothing that concretely tied that back to the U.S. companies.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Using North Korean labor would be a violation of U.S. sanctions. MAX and the producer of "Iyanu," Lion Forge Entertainment,

declined to comment. Unique Studios, which co-created the graphic novel series, did not respond.

Sky Bound Entertainment, which produces "Invincible," told CNN it never approved outsourcing and would investigate.

WILLIAMS: This is just something that's very difficult to kind of figure out who you are working with, because once stuff starts getting outsourced,

once stuff starts moving through the system, actually finding out who the person is at the other side of the keyboard is very, very difficult.

MARQUARDT: The U.S. government does give American companies advice and guidance on what to look out for, how to do their due diligence to make

sure they know who they're working with.

[18:50:00]

But that can be a lot of extra work, which is difficult, especially for small companies, the kind that may need to outsource animation and

programming work. And it is high stakes for these companies, because the Treasury Department can file lawsuits if the sanctions are violated.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: OK. Coming up, E.T. phone home. NASA's Voyager spacecraft is officially back in touch with earth after five long months of silence. The

remarkable reconnection, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." Now, after five months of, well, gibberish, NASA's Voyager is finally making sense. The 46-year-old probe is

humanity's most distant spacecraft. It's responsible for some incredible photos of our solar system. Just take a look at that.

Now, a recent data issue had threatened to cut off contact, but had been fixed remotely by NASA's scientists. No mean feat considering the craft is

some 15 billion miles. That's about 24 billion kilometers away. Kristin Fisher has the details.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, Voyager 1 is really old and really far away. It was only designed to function for

about five years. It's now been flying through space farther than any human made object has ever flown for 46 years. And it's now flying through

interstellar space, some 15 billion, that's billion with a B, miles away.

And so, just imagine trying to troubleshoot an issue with your computer or restart your computer, that can be tricky enough, but imagine doing it when

it takes 22 hours from the time you hit the button on earth to the time that signal reaches the spacecraft and then another 22 hours for that

signal to get back to earth. That's what NASA engineers have been up against.

Back in November of 2023, that's when this issue first cropped up. Voyager 1 started sending back some data that was incoherent to the NASA engineers.

And so, ever since then, for the last five months or so, NASA engineers have been troubleshooting this issue, trying to make sense of the data that

Voyager 1 was sending back.

They first started by trying to reset it. And then they did this thing where they kind of poked the spacecraft. They were able to troubleshoot the

issue to a single chip, and then they were able to extract the data from that chip, move it somewhere else on the spacecraft. And just a few days

ago, they were able to get their first coherent message back from Voyager 1.

The fact that they were able to do that is impressive all by itself. And then you factor in that Voyager 1 has been surviving and living in

interstellar space for so much longer than it was ever intended to run. Voyager 1 really just continuing to amaze.

[18:55:00]

And just remember, this is a spacecraft that has an album on it, the Voyager 1 soundtrack. So, you know, if there's anybody out there in

interstellar space, that's one of the things that Voyager 1 is carrying on it. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Playing a soothing lullaby. And finally, on "First Move," the British Royal Family has released a new picture of Prince Louis to

celebrate his sixth birthday. He's very cute. The smiling image taken by his mother, Catherine, Princess of Wales. And just to be clear, CNN has

been able to verify every it is unedited. This follows controversy, of course, over a Mother's Day photo with her children last month, which had

been digitally altered.

It's been a series of difficult months for the royal family, with both the Princess and King Charles announcing that they've been diagnosed with

cancer. Happy birthday, Prince Louis.

And that just about wraps up the show. Thank you so much for joining us, and I'll see you tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END