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Diplomatic License
Current Events at the United Nations
Aired January 09, 2005 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw 2004 ending with nature at its very worst. We saw 2005 starting with humanity at its very best.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The devastation exceeds anything that I had thought. Pictures cannot capture what the reality is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: From high above Aceh in Indonesia, this is DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. Hello. I'm Richard Roth, traveling with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.
For a first time arrival taking a look from the air, the damage is incredible. It's like an atomic bomb went off. Entire villages, towns, wiped out after the waves came in.
On the program today, we'll follow Secretary-General Annan as he tours Aceh and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in the air and on the ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY.-GEN.: I have never seen such utter destruction, mile after mile, and you wonder where are the people, what happened to them.
But to work with the communities and the government to rebuild these villages is going to be a real challenge. I was shocked by what I saw. It was worse than I thought.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: To Mark Malloch Brown: many have criticized the United Nations for getting its message out regarding Oil For Food or anything. You've certainly not been shy with the camera or printed press. Will you be getting out there or perhaps dabbling in media efforts?
MARK MALLOCH BROWN, U.N. DEVELOPMENT: I'm glad, Richard -- I'm glad you recognized I'm not shy. As you know, my frustration is you never take advantage of me enough. Maybe now that I have politics to talk about as well as development, you'll greet me more routinely into your studio. I'm usually banging on the door and you won't let me in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Well, it doesn't take long for DIPLOMATIC LICENSE to listen to Mark Malloch Brown, the U.N. Development Chief, and start covering development, but we didn't really expect that a few day later we would be on the other side of the globe, here in Banda Aceh, Indonesia.
Mark Malloch Brown joins us.
You seem to have a very easy job, head of the U.N. Development Program and, by the way, this week appointed Kofi Annan's chief of staff and you've got 5 million people to worry about after this tsunami.
BROWN: Well, I suppose at least for this couple of days development and Kofi Annan's agenda have coincided, so I can do both jobs while being with him, but more serious, obviously, this whole crisis here shows the challenge for any U.N. manager, both in my role as development chief, but also as chief of staff. This is going to preoccupy us in the United Nations for months to come.
ROTH: You were on this tour of Malabo (ph), a very hard-hit town in Indonesia, and you took the helicopter ride with us, watching from above. What are your impressions? You've been, certainly, around the world and a lot of places that have fallen apart, so to speak.
BROWN: Well, of course, this is extraordinary. When a wave traveling at 450 miles an hour hits a shoreline, it doesn't just selectively take out buildings in the way that many disasters would or a war would. It takes out everything.
You peer down, trying to see the foundations of a village from the helicopter and wonder if it was a village of 100 people or 5,000 people, but what you know is it's gone utterly, completely.
And so the challenge here is extraordinary and I think beyond these villages that have gone, the thing that also struck me, and I had not understood this clearly until we came here, was the impact on the two towns of Banda Aceh itself ana Malabo (ph), where we just were and where a busy market, morning market, was destroyed, and everybody in it. And here in Banda Aceh similar casualties.
So about 2/3 of the deaths, I think, here have occurred in these two urban areas with the other 1/3 in these little villages.
ROTH: What is the latest on the relief effort, for your agency and the others, now that we're some two weeks out from the tsunami?
BROWN: Well, you know, what we see here is just the sheer difficulty of getting the logistics to work. Now this airfield is working, relief is coming in regularly with really the two critical allies in making that happen were initially the Singaporeans, who came and worked with the Indonesian military here, and now more recently the United States.
But that's just step one to get the food and supplies here to this airport. What we saw today was the road to Malabo (ph) was broken in many places with bridges down. So at the moment it's only reachable by sea or by airdrops because there isn't an airstrip there.
So putting back a logistics infrastructure is key, and I think, you know, beyond this initial role where the military has been so important, the role of the United Nations and of the NGOs now to not just put back the physical infrastructure but to start reassembling the human infrastructure and the people of these communities in ways that they can start to help themselves is very urgent.
ROTH: How do you coordinate all of the agencies, private groups, government agencies? The money is just pouring in.
BROWN: Well, yes, but it comes through an extraordinary bottleneck, the limited capacity of Banda Aceh and it's logistics system to take all of this. I think we're struggling. I think the United Nations has quickly setup a system here. It's been reinforced. It's new chief just arrived last night.
But at the moment, it's working in parallel to a U.S. military logistics system and to a Singaporean and Indonesia effort, and welding that effectively into one while at the same time ensuring as different groups come in, different NGOs, that they join the system rather than setting up parallel distribution operations, is I think going to be a real exercise of organization and of leadership.
ROTH: What about the political disagreements here as Aceh struggles for independence and now has to recover from this? Is that something that -- is it going to bring in unity or is it just a matter of time before the people want their own independence?
BROWN: Well, let's see. I've seen so many times where the shape or the direction of politics is impacted by natural disasters, one way or another. In Nicaragua, there was a famous earthquake which led to the fall of a regime. In other places, governments and the political peace process has been dramatically strengthened or weakened by a natural disaster.
Here I think that the verdict is not in. This may be an opportunity for a new president, elected in Jakarta for this whole country just a few months ago, to reach out, as he clearly wants to, and told Kofi Annan and myself in meeting last night that he wants to use this to try and start a ceasefire process that leads to a broader peace, but we'll have to see.
ROTH: All right, and media is here en masse, the way they greeted Kofi Annan at the airport, but why doesn't the secretary-general get out of the vehicle when he's on that ride through some of the heavy devastation in Malabo (ph)? Is that because the government would prefer to just keep a quicker car ride? I mean, that would allow the world's senior diplomat to see the devastation up close.
BROWN: Well, he drove to a building which was filled with refugees, people who had taken -- been allowed by the government, encouraged by the government, to come into this municipal structure. And I think your cameras caught him talking to an old woman who lost all of her family except one daughter, in tears, in the arms of Mrs. Annan. And other scenes of that kind.
But, you know, I think for all of us this mixture of wanting to see, wanting to try and bring some comfort and perhaps help people grieve, like that old lady, by offering a sort of personification of the international concern and support, and yet at the same time not wanting to kind of come across or in any way be sort of disaster tourists, imposing on people struggling with just terrible tragedy and terrible problems.
ROTH: All right. We're talking to Mark Malloch Brown, leader of the United Nations Development Program here in Banda Aceh. DIPLOMATIC LICENSE will continue to follow the secretary-general. Next stop Sri Lanka over the weekend and probably the Maldives down the road.
We'll have more of our program from New York with Liz Neisloss right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES WOLFENSOHN, WORLD BANK: It is clear that in the longer term and in the medium term, the job of reconstruction is going to be enormous, and you only have to fly along the coast to see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN HOST: Just off a helicopter tour of the devastation, James Wolfensohn, president of the World Bank, rode along with Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Wolfensohn was speaking there in Malabo (ph), Indonesia.
Welcome back to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Liz Neisloss, in new York, picking up the trail from Richard Roth.
This week brought massive promises of aid to help the tsunami victims. One U.N. official said the generous contributions are coming in so often and they're so big you have to repeat them over and over to make sure you get the number of zeros right.
Nations met this week in Jakarta to talk about relief needs and money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a lot of enthusiasm to help out and the countries are becoming quite specific about the sums involved and what they are able to do and so I think the meeting is achieving its purpose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a world community, we should not be counting costs today so that in the future we will not be counting lives lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEISLOSS: But nations do count costs and before Kofi Annan hit tsunami zone, he told reports don't be surprised if we don't get all of the money.
So where do all of these big money promises add up to? Joining me now at the United Nations office, Kevin Kennedy. He is from the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, otherwise known as OCHA. Mr. Kennedy is head of OCHA's response division and has extensive experience in crisis situations in Somalia, Iraq, Sudan among other areas. And in Atlanta, Edmund Cain, director of the Carter Center's Global Development Initiative and a former career officer with the United Nations Development Program. He too has worked in a long list of global hotspots. And in Washington, Jules Frost. Ms. Frost is the U.S.-based director of Emergency Response for World Vision, a global relief organization that currently has staff in nearly all the tsunami-affected countries.
Kevin Kennedy, let me start with you. Pledges are now around $4 billion. Briefly, can you tell us what these numbers really mean? Are we talking cash, loans, goods? How do we understand this?
KEVIN KENNEDY, OCHA: Liz, that number can be counted a number of different ways.
I think we should focus on the monies that have been requested by the secretary-general for the United Nations appeal for tsunami victims. That consists of $977 million U.S. That's the first trench, and that is the money to meet immediate life-saving needs, and that's our first priority.
And I have to say, the generosity of donor countries, neighboring countries, individuals and corporations throughout the world, has been overwhelming.
NEISLOSS: Edmund Cain, what is the reality in terms of how much of this money is actually going to go to these countries? We hear the big number at the beginning. We've seen in many other disasters, whether it's Liberia or Hurricaine Mitch in Central America, lots of money at the beginning and not a lot at the end.
EDMUND CAIN,: We've had a very promising precedent in Afghanistan. Actually, the appeal there was over-subscribed. Now, there have been other cases where the monies didn't materialize.
But it would appear that the outflow of generosity in this case, both from the official government coffers as well as from private sources, is overwhelming and that we're going to see a real meaningful response.
You know, I just noticed today that over half of the households in the United States have privately contribute to this huge disaster.
NEISLOSS: Do you have any sense of why we're seeing this major outflow? One has to ask the cynical question, maybe, there were a lot of Western tourists, about 7,000 individuals either missing or killed in this disaster, from the wealthier Western nations. Does that have any factor in how much of a flow is coming to the crisis?
CAIN: Well, I think it does. We should be reminded that back in 1991, a horrific cyclone hit Bangladesh and over 130,000 people were loss in that event. Today we're seeing numbers in excess of 150,000, but it's comparable.
The difference is, of course, that this has impacted on 12 nations physically and over 50 nations have lost citizens. So this clearly has created a great deal of emotion across the globe. And, of course, now with the technology and the ability to see immediate film footage of this disaster, has also, I think, wrenched the heartstrings of many people.
The other factors, I think, cannot be denied, that there are -- it's clearly in the interest of the world to demonstrate to the world's largest Muslim country, Indonesia, that the rest of the world cares about them, and I think particularly the United States wanted to send that message.
NEISLOSS: Jules, let me ask you, how do you think that the relief effort has been going? How is the United Nations doing?
JULES FROST, WORLD VISION: I think given the magnitude of this disaster, to date we're doing pretty well, but the coordination and logistics is a challenge given the number of countries and the extent of the devastation to the infrastructure.
So I think we're going to have to improve coordination. We've got different things happening on the ground now with the OCHA office setting up and things are beginning to fall in place, but we're going to have to work really hard to make sure that we get all of the resources to the places that are hard to reach.
NEISLOSS: Was it a problem in this case that there was something called a core group of foreign nations, including the United States and Japan, Australia and India, that took the lead and somewhat sidelined the United Nations? As a relief organization, did that seem to be a problem?
FROST: Well, I think, if I may, World Vision welcomed Secretary Powell's announcement that he made in Jakarta, that the coalition now will be disbanded and the United States efforts will be put under the U.N. coordination. I think that's a good thing.
I also think it was good that the United States led out with that coalition, but now is a time for us all to work in collaboration.
NEISLOSS: Kevin.
KENNEDY: Liz, there has been no problem with the core group. We welcome that mission as well. I would hasten to add, the United Nations has been on the ground since day one. We've worked very closely with the core group nations as well as all the nations in the region and those lending a hand in the effort here. So there has not been any kind of conflict or friction at all. It's been quite cooperative.
FROST: And another thing, when it comes to cooperation, I mean, sometimes with the United Nations we see some in-fighting between different agencies, and that has not been the case in this circumstance. There's just too much to do and everybody is getting on with the business.
KENNEDY: I would add, Liz, too, particularly in Banda Aceh and in Aceh area and Sumatra in general, I think we -- when I say we, I talk about the United Nations, the non-governmental organizations, like World Vision, the Red Cross movement, the government of Indonesia, as well as the neighboring countries, and the militaries -- have been working very well together.
We have put in place on the inside our really A team on the ground. We have a new coordinator just for Sumatra. He is supported by two dozen experienced and capable staff.
Jules is right, there is a lot to put together. Bear in mind, our first priority now is to deliver assistance to people in need. The second priority is to put in place the coordination. But as we achieve more on the first, we'll be able to do better on the second.
CAIN: You know, if I might just add to that. You asked whether this assistance in the long run will actually be seen. I think it's very important, as Kevin has emphasized, that the secretary-general's appeal be met and that these urgent, immediate, live-saving initiatives be taken. But we can't lose sight of the long-term development challenges these countries will face.
And there are three different types of challenges. Some are very poor areas that don't have tourism. Others are touristy areas where clearly private sector money will come in and help rehabilitate them very quickly. And then there are two very unique situations, one in Aceh and the other in Sri Lanka, where there is civil strife, where real opportunity exists for the government and the international community to see how we can use this disaster to built a rapprochement and a peaceful future for those civil disputes.
NEISLOSS: Edmund, though, I have to ask you, we hear a lot about long-term development, and in every crisis there always seems to be a fall- off. So how do you sustain the interest?
CAIN: It's been a very, very difficult problem and I like to think that one of these days people will understand that unless you invest in preventative measures, including early-warning systems, and you invest in the need to sustain livelihoods, meaningful livelihoods, where people can make a good living and have a decent life, that you're going to see these kinds of problems recur. Now, not necessarily a tsunami, but there are the issues of drought, there are the issues of famine.
We have virtually three tsunamis a month taking place in the world today when you look at the number of people dying from malaria, the number of people dying from AIDS, the 800 million people that go to bed hungry. These are disasters and hopefully events like this will focus people on the fact that people are in need and it's not just a one-shot event like this, but we need to look at these other problems as well.
NEISLOSS: Jules, one final very quick question. Do you worry about the relief efforts that are going to be taken away from in other places? Do you worry -- one official said he heard a giant sucking sound coming from other crises as all the money is going to tsunami relief. What are you worried about?
FROST: That is a concern, and we -- for instance, in Darfur, in Sudan, we've been seeing images of millions of people there as well as in northern Uganda, just to name two. And I encourage people to continue to give to those disasters, even though we may not be seeing them in the media.
And just one point, I think a critical thing is for the governments, as we move on, to make sure that they fulfill their commitments to the tsunami response as well as keep up their compassion in the long-term.
NEISLOSS: OK, Jules, we'll have to lave it there and we'll have to see if the governments do keep their promises.
At the United Nations, thank you to Kevin Kennedy, from the U.N. Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and, in Atlanta, Edmund Cain, director of the Carter Center's Global Development Initiative and, in Washington, Jules Frost, director of Emergency Response for World Vision.
And that's it for this week's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Liz Neisloss, in New York, and from Richard Roth, on the road, thanks for watching.
END
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Aired January 9, 2005 - 07:30:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw 2004 ending with nature at its very worst. We saw 2005 starting with humanity at its very best.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The devastation exceeds anything that I had thought. Pictures cannot capture what the reality is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: From high above Aceh in Indonesia, this is DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. Hello. I'm Richard Roth, traveling with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.
For a first time arrival taking a look from the air, the damage is incredible. It's like an atomic bomb went off. Entire villages, towns, wiped out after the waves came in.
On the program today, we'll follow Secretary-General Annan as he tours Aceh and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in the air and on the ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY.-GEN.: I have never seen such utter destruction, mile after mile, and you wonder where are the people, what happened to them.
But to work with the communities and the government to rebuild these villages is going to be a real challenge. I was shocked by what I saw. It was worse than I thought.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: To Mark Malloch Brown: many have criticized the United Nations for getting its message out regarding Oil For Food or anything. You've certainly not been shy with the camera or printed press. Will you be getting out there or perhaps dabbling in media efforts?
MARK MALLOCH BROWN, U.N. DEVELOPMENT: I'm glad, Richard -- I'm glad you recognized I'm not shy. As you know, my frustration is you never take advantage of me enough. Maybe now that I have politics to talk about as well as development, you'll greet me more routinely into your studio. I'm usually banging on the door and you won't let me in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Well, it doesn't take long for DIPLOMATIC LICENSE to listen to Mark Malloch Brown, the U.N. Development Chief, and start covering development, but we didn't really expect that a few day later we would be on the other side of the globe, here in Banda Aceh, Indonesia.
Mark Malloch Brown joins us.
You seem to have a very easy job, head of the U.N. Development Program and, by the way, this week appointed Kofi Annan's chief of staff and you've got 5 million people to worry about after this tsunami.
BROWN: Well, I suppose at least for this couple of days development and Kofi Annan's agenda have coincided, so I can do both jobs while being with him, but more serious, obviously, this whole crisis here shows the challenge for any U.N. manager, both in my role as development chief, but also as chief of staff. This is going to preoccupy us in the United Nations for months to come.
ROTH: You were on this tour of Malabo (ph), a very hard-hit town in Indonesia, and you took the helicopter ride with us, watching from above. What are your impressions? You've been, certainly, around the world and a lot of places that have fallen apart, so to speak.
BROWN: Well, of course, this is extraordinary. When a wave traveling at 450 miles an hour hits a shoreline, it doesn't just selectively take out buildings in the way that many disasters would or a war would. It takes out everything.
You peer down, trying to see the foundations of a village from the helicopter and wonder if it was a village of 100 people or 5,000 people, but what you know is it's gone utterly, completely.
And so the challenge here is extraordinary and I think beyond these villages that have gone, the thing that also struck me, and I had not understood this clearly until we came here, was the impact on the two towns of Banda Aceh itself ana Malabo (ph), where we just were and where a busy market, morning market, was destroyed, and everybody in it. And here in Banda Aceh similar casualties.
So about 2/3 of the deaths, I think, here have occurred in these two urban areas with the other 1/3 in these little villages.
ROTH: What is the latest on the relief effort, for your agency and the others, now that we're some two weeks out from the tsunami?
BROWN: Well, you know, what we see here is just the sheer difficulty of getting the logistics to work. Now this airfield is working, relief is coming in regularly with really the two critical allies in making that happen were initially the Singaporeans, who came and worked with the Indonesian military here, and now more recently the United States.
But that's just step one to get the food and supplies here to this airport. What we saw today was the road to Malabo (ph) was broken in many places with bridges down. So at the moment it's only reachable by sea or by airdrops because there isn't an airstrip there.
So putting back a logistics infrastructure is key, and I think, you know, beyond this initial role where the military has been so important, the role of the United Nations and of the NGOs now to not just put back the physical infrastructure but to start reassembling the human infrastructure and the people of these communities in ways that they can start to help themselves is very urgent.
ROTH: How do you coordinate all of the agencies, private groups, government agencies? The money is just pouring in.
BROWN: Well, yes, but it comes through an extraordinary bottleneck, the limited capacity of Banda Aceh and it's logistics system to take all of this. I think we're struggling. I think the United Nations has quickly setup a system here. It's been reinforced. It's new chief just arrived last night.
But at the moment, it's working in parallel to a U.S. military logistics system and to a Singaporean and Indonesia effort, and welding that effectively into one while at the same time ensuring as different groups come in, different NGOs, that they join the system rather than setting up parallel distribution operations, is I think going to be a real exercise of organization and of leadership.
ROTH: What about the political disagreements here as Aceh struggles for independence and now has to recover from this? Is that something that -- is it going to bring in unity or is it just a matter of time before the people want their own independence?
BROWN: Well, let's see. I've seen so many times where the shape or the direction of politics is impacted by natural disasters, one way or another. In Nicaragua, there was a famous earthquake which led to the fall of a regime. In other places, governments and the political peace process has been dramatically strengthened or weakened by a natural disaster.
Here I think that the verdict is not in. This may be an opportunity for a new president, elected in Jakarta for this whole country just a few months ago, to reach out, as he clearly wants to, and told Kofi Annan and myself in meeting last night that he wants to use this to try and start a ceasefire process that leads to a broader peace, but we'll have to see.
ROTH: All right, and media is here en masse, the way they greeted Kofi Annan at the airport, but why doesn't the secretary-general get out of the vehicle when he's on that ride through some of the heavy devastation in Malabo (ph)? Is that because the government would prefer to just keep a quicker car ride? I mean, that would allow the world's senior diplomat to see the devastation up close.
BROWN: Well, he drove to a building which was filled with refugees, people who had taken -- been allowed by the government, encouraged by the government, to come into this municipal structure. And I think your cameras caught him talking to an old woman who lost all of her family except one daughter, in tears, in the arms of Mrs. Annan. And other scenes of that kind.
But, you know, I think for all of us this mixture of wanting to see, wanting to try and bring some comfort and perhaps help people grieve, like that old lady, by offering a sort of personification of the international concern and support, and yet at the same time not wanting to kind of come across or in any way be sort of disaster tourists, imposing on people struggling with just terrible tragedy and terrible problems.
ROTH: All right. We're talking to Mark Malloch Brown, leader of the United Nations Development Program here in Banda Aceh. DIPLOMATIC LICENSE will continue to follow the secretary-general. Next stop Sri Lanka over the weekend and probably the Maldives down the road.
We'll have more of our program from New York with Liz Neisloss right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES WOLFENSOHN, WORLD BANK: It is clear that in the longer term and in the medium term, the job of reconstruction is going to be enormous, and you only have to fly along the coast to see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN HOST: Just off a helicopter tour of the devastation, James Wolfensohn, president of the World Bank, rode along with Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Wolfensohn was speaking there in Malabo (ph), Indonesia.
Welcome back to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Liz Neisloss, in new York, picking up the trail from Richard Roth.
This week brought massive promises of aid to help the tsunami victims. One U.N. official said the generous contributions are coming in so often and they're so big you have to repeat them over and over to make sure you get the number of zeros right.
Nations met this week in Jakarta to talk about relief needs and money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a lot of enthusiasm to help out and the countries are becoming quite specific about the sums involved and what they are able to do and so I think the meeting is achieving its purpose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a world community, we should not be counting costs today so that in the future we will not be counting lives lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEISLOSS: But nations do count costs and before Kofi Annan hit tsunami zone, he told reports don't be surprised if we don't get all of the money.
So where do all of these big money promises add up to? Joining me now at the United Nations office, Kevin Kennedy. He is from the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, otherwise known as OCHA. Mr. Kennedy is head of OCHA's response division and has extensive experience in crisis situations in Somalia, Iraq, Sudan among other areas. And in Atlanta, Edmund Cain, director of the Carter Center's Global Development Initiative and a former career officer with the United Nations Development Program. He too has worked in a long list of global hotspots. And in Washington, Jules Frost. Ms. Frost is the U.S.-based director of Emergency Response for World Vision, a global relief organization that currently has staff in nearly all the tsunami-affected countries.
Kevin Kennedy, let me start with you. Pledges are now around $4 billion. Briefly, can you tell us what these numbers really mean? Are we talking cash, loans, goods? How do we understand this?
KEVIN KENNEDY, OCHA: Liz, that number can be counted a number of different ways.
I think we should focus on the monies that have been requested by the secretary-general for the United Nations appeal for tsunami victims. That consists of $977 million U.S. That's the first trench, and that is the money to meet immediate life-saving needs, and that's our first priority.
And I have to say, the generosity of donor countries, neighboring countries, individuals and corporations throughout the world, has been overwhelming.
NEISLOSS: Edmund Cain, what is the reality in terms of how much of this money is actually going to go to these countries? We hear the big number at the beginning. We've seen in many other disasters, whether it's Liberia or Hurricaine Mitch in Central America, lots of money at the beginning and not a lot at the end.
EDMUND CAIN,: We've had a very promising precedent in Afghanistan. Actually, the appeal there was over-subscribed. Now, there have been other cases where the monies didn't materialize.
But it would appear that the outflow of generosity in this case, both from the official government coffers as well as from private sources, is overwhelming and that we're going to see a real meaningful response.
You know, I just noticed today that over half of the households in the United States have privately contribute to this huge disaster.
NEISLOSS: Do you have any sense of why we're seeing this major outflow? One has to ask the cynical question, maybe, there were a lot of Western tourists, about 7,000 individuals either missing or killed in this disaster, from the wealthier Western nations. Does that have any factor in how much of a flow is coming to the crisis?
CAIN: Well, I think it does. We should be reminded that back in 1991, a horrific cyclone hit Bangladesh and over 130,000 people were loss in that event. Today we're seeing numbers in excess of 150,000, but it's comparable.
The difference is, of course, that this has impacted on 12 nations physically and over 50 nations have lost citizens. So this clearly has created a great deal of emotion across the globe. And, of course, now with the technology and the ability to see immediate film footage of this disaster, has also, I think, wrenched the heartstrings of many people.
The other factors, I think, cannot be denied, that there are -- it's clearly in the interest of the world to demonstrate to the world's largest Muslim country, Indonesia, that the rest of the world cares about them, and I think particularly the United States wanted to send that message.
NEISLOSS: Jules, let me ask you, how do you think that the relief effort has been going? How is the United Nations doing?
JULES FROST, WORLD VISION: I think given the magnitude of this disaster, to date we're doing pretty well, but the coordination and logistics is a challenge given the number of countries and the extent of the devastation to the infrastructure.
So I think we're going to have to improve coordination. We've got different things happening on the ground now with the OCHA office setting up and things are beginning to fall in place, but we're going to have to work really hard to make sure that we get all of the resources to the places that are hard to reach.
NEISLOSS: Was it a problem in this case that there was something called a core group of foreign nations, including the United States and Japan, Australia and India, that took the lead and somewhat sidelined the United Nations? As a relief organization, did that seem to be a problem?
FROST: Well, I think, if I may, World Vision welcomed Secretary Powell's announcement that he made in Jakarta, that the coalition now will be disbanded and the United States efforts will be put under the U.N. coordination. I think that's a good thing.
I also think it was good that the United States led out with that coalition, but now is a time for us all to work in collaboration.
NEISLOSS: Kevin.
KENNEDY: Liz, there has been no problem with the core group. We welcome that mission as well. I would hasten to add, the United Nations has been on the ground since day one. We've worked very closely with the core group nations as well as all the nations in the region and those lending a hand in the effort here. So there has not been any kind of conflict or friction at all. It's been quite cooperative.
FROST: And another thing, when it comes to cooperation, I mean, sometimes with the United Nations we see some in-fighting between different agencies, and that has not been the case in this circumstance. There's just too much to do and everybody is getting on with the business.
KENNEDY: I would add, Liz, too, particularly in Banda Aceh and in Aceh area and Sumatra in general, I think we -- when I say we, I talk about the United Nations, the non-governmental organizations, like World Vision, the Red Cross movement, the government of Indonesia, as well as the neighboring countries, and the militaries -- have been working very well together.
We have put in place on the inside our really A team on the ground. We have a new coordinator just for Sumatra. He is supported by two dozen experienced and capable staff.
Jules is right, there is a lot to put together. Bear in mind, our first priority now is to deliver assistance to people in need. The second priority is to put in place the coordination. But as we achieve more on the first, we'll be able to do better on the second.
CAIN: You know, if I might just add to that. You asked whether this assistance in the long run will actually be seen. I think it's very important, as Kevin has emphasized, that the secretary-general's appeal be met and that these urgent, immediate, live-saving initiatives be taken. But we can't lose sight of the long-term development challenges these countries will face.
And there are three different types of challenges. Some are very poor areas that don't have tourism. Others are touristy areas where clearly private sector money will come in and help rehabilitate them very quickly. And then there are two very unique situations, one in Aceh and the other in Sri Lanka, where there is civil strife, where real opportunity exists for the government and the international community to see how we can use this disaster to built a rapprochement and a peaceful future for those civil disputes.
NEISLOSS: Edmund, though, I have to ask you, we hear a lot about long-term development, and in every crisis there always seems to be a fall- off. So how do you sustain the interest?
CAIN: It's been a very, very difficult problem and I like to think that one of these days people will understand that unless you invest in preventative measures, including early-warning systems, and you invest in the need to sustain livelihoods, meaningful livelihoods, where people can make a good living and have a decent life, that you're going to see these kinds of problems recur. Now, not necessarily a tsunami, but there are the issues of drought, there are the issues of famine.
We have virtually three tsunamis a month taking place in the world today when you look at the number of people dying from malaria, the number of people dying from AIDS, the 800 million people that go to bed hungry. These are disasters and hopefully events like this will focus people on the fact that people are in need and it's not just a one-shot event like this, but we need to look at these other problems as well.
NEISLOSS: Jules, one final very quick question. Do you worry about the relief efforts that are going to be taken away from in other places? Do you worry -- one official said he heard a giant sucking sound coming from other crises as all the money is going to tsunami relief. What are you worried about?
FROST: That is a concern, and we -- for instance, in Darfur, in Sudan, we've been seeing images of millions of people there as well as in northern Uganda, just to name two. And I encourage people to continue to give to those disasters, even though we may not be seeing them in the media.
And just one point, I think a critical thing is for the governments, as we move on, to make sure that they fulfill their commitments to the tsunami response as well as keep up their compassion in the long-term.
NEISLOSS: OK, Jules, we'll have to lave it there and we'll have to see if the governments do keep their promises.
At the United Nations, thank you to Kevin Kennedy, from the U.N. Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and, in Atlanta, Edmund Cain, director of the Carter Center's Global Development Initiative and, in Washington, Jules Frost, director of Emergency Response for World Vision.
And that's it for this week's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Liz Neisloss, in New York, and from Richard Roth, on the road, thanks for watching.
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