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Migrant Crisis Takes Toll on Europe; Some Refugees; Migrants Reach Germany; Markets Rally in Early Trading; Kerry to Defend Iran Nuclear Deal in Speech; Obama Secures Enough Support for Iran Deal; Europe's Free Movement under Pressure; UNHCR Says Europe Has Responsibility to Help Refugees. Aired 10-11 ET
Aired September 02, 2015 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST: Welcome to the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Robyn Curnow at the CNN Center.
We begin with these words from one of the many migrants stuck in limbo at a Hungarian train station.
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CURNOW (voice-over): He told the media, "It's not our dreams to stay here and sleep in the streets."
Instead, many dream of getting to Germany, which has been welcoming migrants, despite protests.
But Europe is struggling to find a unified strategy for dealing with the massive influx of desperate and often undocumented people.
Let's get details on what is happening in Europe today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Our Hala Gorani is in Berlin to cover the impact of the migrant crisis and she joins us now.
Hi, there, Hala. You're in Germany, which again is the reluctant leader in a European crisis, at the center of trying to find a solution.
HALA GORANI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. And by the way, we're here for special coverage throughout the day on this unprecedented in recent memory
migrant and refugee crisis to hit Europe.
And many countries, as you mentioned, trying to cope with the influx of refugees of migrants, Hungary, where we saw chaos at a Budapest train
station, Germany, which is the country taking in the most number of refugees and political asylum seekers.
Other countries as well throughout the Eurozone. But no real harmony there in an approach, a unified approach to deal with this crisis. It is really
the largest refugee migrant crisis since the end of World War II on this continent. There's really no overstating how difficult it is going to be
for this continent to come up with a unified strategy.
I was mentioning a Budapest train station because Hungary essentially geographically, after migrants make it from Turkey onto Greece and then
come up through Eastern Europe, end up in Hungary, which is the gateway to the European Union and to the passport-free zone.
Hungary has been reluctant to allow all the refugees who want to to board trains in Budapest on their way to Germany through Austria. Germany, where
I am, where many of these migrants and refugees would like to end up, since Germany has really opened its doors, more so than other European countries.
Our Arwa Damon, senior international correspondent, our Arwa Damon, is at that Budapest train station where we saw chaotic scenes of desperate
Syrians, Afghans and other nationalities, trying to make it on trains but being denied the right to do so. Take a look.
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ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The crowds are still demonstrating although now since the sun is beating down and has moved in,
they are sending out a little bit gathered on the lower levels here, just continuing to wait and hope that someone who can make a difference has been
hearing their cries, a lot of them directed towards Germany and the United Nations.
There is still a small group of resilient demonstrators trying to stick out in a makeshift tent made up a pizza box. A lot of these people have been
waiting out here for days if not upwards of a week, hoping that somehow Hungary, Austria and Germany will be able to come to some sort of an
agreement.
This has been especially difficult for the parents, who say that they tried to save their children from the wars in Iraq and Syria, most of them have
been fleeing from those two countries. They brought them here because they thought that they would be able to give the a future, any sort of future.
They risked the seas. They trekked across the various different countries and few of the expected to be stuck, abandoned at this stage -- Arwa Damon,
CNN, Budapest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, we are also confirming that at the request of Bavarian authorities, there have been customs and border controls reinstated at the
Italian-Austrian border there, which is significant because this is usually a border where, of course, you would have more or less free movement.
But some authorities in Germany are saying they are just absolutely overwhelmed, unclear what happens to refugees who've gone up to the --
(BREAK)
CURNOW: OK. Clearly we've lost our Hala Gorani.
In the meantime, I'm going to pick it up. And she was just about to have a conversation with our Fred Pleitgen, who is in Munich. That's where the
asylum seekers are being given supplies and temporary shelter.
Hi, there, Fred. What's it like where you are?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, Robyn, because just listening to what Arwa was saying there
from Hungary --
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PLEITGEN: -- it shows really how tragic that whole situation is, because while there appear to be hundreds if not thousands of people there at that
train station in Hungary, outside that train station with virtually nothing, with no roof over their heads, very little food and water and
obviously almost nothing for their children to do as well, here in Munich, the authorities are ready and the volunteers are ready to actually take in
more people.
They've converted part of the main railway station here in Munich into something like a welcoming and processing center.
So what happens here, when the people get here to the platforms at the Munich railway station that you see behind me is that they're walked over
there by the police; they get medical attention. They get food. There's a lot of food. There's a lot of clothing there as well.
And then very quickly, they're usually put onto buses and then brought into temporary shelters around the Munich area. That process usually doesn't
take more than about an hour for these people to at least have a solid roof over their heads.
And we've been speaking to helpers there. And they so far, maybe 500 people have arrived today. That's nothing compared to the hundreds and
moreover thousands that arrived yesterday and on Monday and so they have the capacity.
But at this point in time, the people simply aren't coming. Now of course, that's not to say that Germany doesn't feel as though it is being somewhat
overwhelmed by the influx of refugees. There certainly are a lot of places where the shelters are full, sometimes three or four times as many as are
actually supposed to be in those shelters.
But here, certainly, as far as that bottleneck there at Hungary concerned, there does seem to be capacity at least here in Munich for more people to
come -- Robyn.
CURNOW: How -- what is the mood within Germany? Clearly, people are welcoming; it's quite organized, as you're saying. But Germany is a
reluctant leader within Europe. You know, after the Ukraine crisis, the debt crisis in Greece, Germany very much taking center stage and trying to
find solutions.
PLEITGEN: Well, you're right. And one of the things about Germany is that especially of course since World War II, Germany usually tries to do within
Europe, is it tried to get forged some sort of common European solution.
Now there's two levels to all of this. On the one hand, of course, is the German population; and, on the other hand, there is German politicians --
(BREAK)
CURNOW: OK. We seem to be having all sorts of technical problems today. But that in a way is the beauty of live television.
I'm Robyn Curnow. You're watching the INTERNATIONAL DESK. Stay with us. We'll have more after this break.
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CURNOW: Welcome back.
Kidnappers have abducted a group of Turkish construction workers in a Shiite-dominated area of the Iraqi capital.
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CURNOW: The 18 men were helping to build a sports stadium in the Sadr City neighborhood north of Baghdad. The abductors reportedly stormed into the
workers' quarters before dawn in military uniform. No one has claimed responsibility.
U.S. President Barack Obama's lobbying efforts on the Iran nuclear deal is paying off. The president is now very close to getting enough support from
U.S. lawmakers for the historic agreement before a vote in Congress later this month.
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CURNOW (voice-over): U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry deliveries a speech on the agreement in less than an hour in Philadelphia. Kerry will
use the opportunity to defend the deal against its critics. He's also expected to argue that walking away could hurt America's image on the world
stage.
Well, our John Defterios joins me now live from Tehran in Iran.
Hi, there, John. Thanks for joining us here at the IDESK.
We're waiting to hear U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry speak.
What's the view on the ground there over efforts to get sanctions lifted once and for all?
Oh, dear; he doesn't seem to be hearing me.
The gremlins are out today.
Anyway, we'll carry on and move on with other news and we'll try and get John Defterios back.
Investigators are looking into whether a fire in Paris that killed at least eight people was intentional. It happened in the early morning at an
apartment building. Two children were among the victims. Officials say more than 100 firefighters spent three hours bringing the blaze under
control.
In a statement, the mayor said, quote, "Paris is in mourning."
Police in Thailand have arrested -- have issued an arrest warrant for another suspect in last months' Bangkok shrine bombing. The Turkish man is
believed to be the husband of a Thai woman, who authorities are also seeking. Police say he provided accommodation for the other bombing
suspects. So far eight arrest warrants have been issued. Two people have been detained, including this man. He was caught trying to illegally cross
into Cambodia on Tuesday. Police say his fingerprints matched those found on bombmaking materials discovered during a weekend raid on a Bangkok
apartment. He spoke Turkish while being interrogated.
U.S. stock markets are on the rebound after the Dow shed more than 400 points on Tuesday. Here's a look at the big board, up over 170 points
there. Fears over China's slowing economy have had a really volatile effect on markets during the past week.
Alison Kosik is there on the floor for us.
Have you had whiplash in the last week or so?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Robyn, you took the word right out of my mouth. Whiplash, as we see this bounceback after that 469-point
drop that put the Dow back into correction territory.
But if you think the worst is over, you may want to think again because September is historically a rough month for Wall Street. September
historically has more down days than up.
Good news, though, China, its markets will be closed for two days, some thinking that that will bring some stability, at least, to the U.S.
markets. Next on the radar for U.S. investors: the government jobs report for August, coming out on Friday.
Now what's interesting is that the number is good or beats expectations. Many believe you'll actually see another selloff here on Wall Street,
Robyn. That's because the thinking is if the data is good, if it shows the jobs market continues to grow strong, everybody thinks the Fed will go
ahead and raise interest rates at its meeting in September.
But that really still is a tossup; the question of whether or not the Fed will raise rates in September, keep in mind the Fed is focusing on U.S.
data, on how to make that decision. It's unclear whether or not the Fed is paying attention to all the global noise going on specifically what's
happening in the financial markets in China and with China's slowing economy -- Robyn.
CURNOW: Indeed. You talk about all the global noise and there are these long-term concerns over China. But many traders saying, listen, let's just
put this all in perspective, particularly with the U.S. markets. This is really a time of a much-needed correction.
KOSIK: Right. So, yes, this is a much-needed correction. But the big worry for U.S. investors is that China's slowing economy can seep onto U.S.
shores. In fact, we're already seeing that here in the United States. Manufacturing data came in at a two-year low yesterday. That is partially
because of China's slowing economy.
A lot of companies that reported for second quarter earnings season also mentioned China as weighing on their profits. One that comes to mind,
Hershey's, saying that in the second quarter, its sales from China down 50 percent. That's just one company of many saying how China's slowing
economy is impacting their bottom line -- Robyn.
CURNOW: OK. Thanks for that, Alison Kosik there at the stock exchange.
Well, let's take a look at the European markets. They're currently maintaining their gains, all in positive territory there. The FTSE making
the most gains there.
Let's also look at --
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CURNOW: -- the Asia Pacific markets, how they closed on Wednesday. Mixed results there, but another wild day for the Shanghai Composite. It opened
with a drop of more than 4 percent before regaining most of those losses.
Well, John Kerry, the U.S. secretary of state, is expected to give a speech within the next hour, outlining the Iran deal, again trying to lobby those
last-minute members of Congress who are trying to decide whether or not to go with the president and John Kerry in terms of the U.S.' reaction to this
deal.
John Defterios, we're going to try and go back to Tehran now, hopefully you can hear me.
There's been so much talk and so much division within Washington over this deal.
What's the reaction in Tehran?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, in fact, Robyn, there's great anxiety leading up to this speech by John Kerry, only because they
want to see the administration get past this final hurdle before the vote on September 17th.
We saw the fact that there was two Democratic senators that came in to the camp of the administration here, firmly supporting the P5+1 agreement.
They don't want to see anything scupper the last-minute deal.
But what I find interesting, having been on the ground this week here in Tehran is that other delegations from the P5+1 that, in fact, the
delegations from Asia, are already in Tehran, trying to sign agreements from Germany to Japan, South Korea, the French delegation, the Italians
have all been here since July 14th, looking for opportunity.
Obviously the most promising sector is the energy sector. And in fact, when I spoke to the energy minister yesterday, they're laying out the first
some $185 billion of investment projects.
So the big worry for the U.S. companies is are they waiting too long to try to get back into what I think is fair to describe, Robyn, as the last
frontier market for the emerging markets, very large population; nearly 80 million consumers, very youthful population; 60 percent below the age of
30.
But the economy's had this noose around it because of the sanctions. It's been stifled for the last eight years right now. They've lost about 20
percent of their GDP. They're looking forward to the day where the sanctions get lifted so they can start growing and participating in the
global economy and get the politics out of the way, to be candid.
CURNOW: Well, I don't know; is that possible to get the politics out of the way? You know we talk about the toxic Washington politics but also the
hardliners in Tehran still calling U.S. the Great Satan.
How is that playing out in terms of the divisions within the Iranian government?
DEFTERIOS: I think that's a lot of political noise. And in fact, I spoke to a number of different people within the business sector and even within
the cabinet here in Iran. There's a whole centrist movement here to try to get -- pass this agreement, make sure it's signed. They want to start
exporting more oil by January of 2016.
And in fact, Robyn, they've put forward a very ambitious plan to increase production from, say, 2.8 million barrels a day today to 4.2 million
barrels a day by the end of 2016.
So that's rhetoric on one side; you have the U.S. allies Israel and Saudi Arabia, putting a lot of pressure on the administration on the other. But
inside here, the business community thinks there's an opportunity to be seized.
And I just turn around here, I can give you a sense of what's going on. Construction right behind me with three buildings. You look in the
distance, there's another crane. And then if I gave you a 180-degree pan, you'd seen another dozen cranes. This is pent-up frustration with the
sanctions where buildings were started but they weren't completed. Again, they've been strangled by the sanctions right now.
And being this close, they don't want to see it scuppered. And on the other side of course, with U.S. allies who are against this, it's not the
perfect deal; but those on both sides are suggesting perhaps it's the best we have right now.
It does need to be monitored. But it's the best opportunity to try to get Iran into the global tent for negotiations going forward. We know they
have a 15-year expiration to 2030. And in that window, can they make it work or not?
CURNOW: Let's go back to the issue about economic opportunities.
What exactly are the opportunities?
You say there are a lot of businessmen already in town.
Who are they talking to? What are they looking at?
DEFTERIOS: What's interesting with all the delegations that came in since the July 14th agreement, you can cover a whole range of sectors where the
European companies and the Asian companies have expertise. So they're knocking on the door for construction, engineering, energy sector is the
biggest one by far, $185 in the first tranche.
But they have a midterm target here, Robyn, to go from 2.8 million barrels a day to 5.7 million barrels day within a five-year window. That would put
them in the top four in the world. So they sit with the fourth biggest proven oil reserves and the second largest gas reserves. But they have
been unable to make that happen because they've been restricted --
[10:20:00]
DEFTERIOS: -- by the sanctions.
So this is that window of opportunity. And in fact, Jim O'Neil (ph), when he was at Goldman Sachs, wrote about the different emerging markets around
the world and the ones that offered the greatest opportunity, he put Iran in this bundle of the next 11.
(CROSSTALK)
CURNOW: John, I'm going to have to interrupt you. I'm sorry to do that. But we were mentioning that John Kerry is giving a speech to talk about
this Iran deal in the next hour.
In fact, our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, is about to interview him. He -- she's in London. I'm going to hand you over
to her for that conversation -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Robyn, thank you so much.
And of course, since the Iran nuclear deal was signed in July amongst the United States, Iran and the other world powers, it has been subject to some
quite divisive debate, most especially in the United States.
And to that end, the U.S. secretary of state, John Kerry, is today in Pennsylvania, where he's going to be giving a major address to the American
people about the benefits of this deal as Congress shortly returns to start debating it and then there will be a vote on it.
So let us go straight now to Philadelphia and the National Constitutional Center there and join Secretary Kerry.
Secretary Kerry, I want to start by saying thank you very much for giving us this interview ahead of this major address. And obviously the stakes
are incredibly high.
Tell us what you hope to accomplish in the hour that you have to speak to the American people.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I hope to make it clear, Christiane, first of all, thank you for having a moment here.
I hope to make it clear that this agreement, which has been entered into by the P5+1, six nations coming together and Iran, is an agreement that will
set out very strict requirements that Iran needs to adhere to -- which they have accepted -- and will, in fact, close of and provide assurance to the
world that the pathways are closed off to a nuclear weapon.
Iran has declared they never want to seek one, that they will not seek one. But that has to be put into a structure where it is affirmed by specific
actions that are verifiable. That's what this agreement does.
And I will deal with a number of the myths that are out there, that somehow this agreement legitimizes a path to a nuclear weapon or that it's not able
to be verified and so forth.
I think all of that is what I will talk about today. In the end, I hope to make it clear this agreement makes Israel, the Gulf states, the region
safer; it makes the world safer because Iran has agreed to operate in a way that proves that they will not seek a nuclear weapon.
And if they don't do that and there were an effort to go around it, we will know it and we will be able to take appropriate action as a result.
AMANPOUR: Secretary Kerry, this whole debate has been described as one of the most divisive in the United States in modern history. It involves
American security, Israeli security, concerns in the region of the Middle East.
And the American people seem to have succumbed to the very divisive debate and the coverage of it.
A recent CNN poll, the latest we've taken, just about a week or so ago, shows that 56 percent of the people who you hope to convince today say the
Congress should not approve it.
KERRY: Well, the latest poll I saw said that 52 percent of Americans support the agreement. But it is correct for you to say that it's been
divisive and I regret that it's been divisive.
But some have chosen to spend huge amounts of money and, frankly, have not been presenting the reality of what this agreement really does. That's one
of the reasons why I'm here today, it is to dispel the myths and lay out specifically and factually what this agreement does and doesn't do.
And I hope -- and I think we're seeing this incidentally as senators are looking at this very, very closely, examining it; we had another senator
announce today her support for the agreement, Senator Mikulski.
So there's an increasing march of people who are looking at it closely, judging it by its facts and then deciding that they do support it.
And we hope that as more Americans learn more about it, that'll also be true of the country as a whole.
AMANPOUR: You just mentioned Senator Mikulski and that now brings you to 34 votes apparently for approval of this deal.
What does that mean in terms of whether it sinks or swims?
[10:25:00]
KERRY: Well, obviously 34 votes are enough votes for the president's veto to be able to be upheld.
But we're not -- that's not the way we're approaching this. We want anybody and everybody hopefully to be able to vote for it. We're going to
continue to try to persuade people, up until the last moment. And our hope is that that number will grow obviously.
But it is -- it is enough to sustain the president's veto. But that's not satisfactory for us; we do want to try to go further and you know, we'll
continue to persuade.
But what's really important here, Christiane, is not to get caught up in the process. It's to really look at this agreement.
If this agreement were to be denied suddenly by the Congress unilaterally, after we have led the effort to negotiate it and we joined in good faith
with France, Germany, Britain, China, Russia and Iran has signed up to this agreement, if the United States were to sort of unilaterally move away and
say, oh, sorry; we're not going to do this, it would have profound implications that are very negative, I would judge, for our country and for
the national security of the -- of a nation, but also for the security of the region.
Iran would then be free to go do what it wants to do, having showed up in good faith to make an agreement and it's the United States that somehow
says, no, we're not going to live by this.
I think it would be extraordinarily damaging; but the politics are obviously intense. And there are fears that people have about Iran's
compliance because of past events.
What we're trying to point out clearly today, what I will say, is that this agreement is not based on hope or trust. This agreement is based on
verification. And on very specific steps that Iran has to take. For instance, you were just having somebody interviewed about business in Iran.
Business in Iran will not be able to take off until Iran has done all of the things that it has to do in order to expand the breakout time and live
up to this agreement. That could take six months to a year.
And so again, nothing in this agreement is based on hope or in a signature; it is based on very specific things that have to be verified for the
lifetime of this agreement.
There is no sunset to this agreement. It is the lifetime of the agreement that must be lived up to.
AMANPOUR: And, Secretary Kerry, as we continue, I want to also welcome our viewers in the United States; this interview is being broadcast live around
the world and in the USA.
So let me just ask you again, you said you wanted to dispel the myths, as you call it, around this deal.
One of them -- and you've addressed quite a lot right now -- one of them, even those supporters in Congress say they have a heavy heart about -- is
what about all the billions of dollars that will be freed under sanctions relief that many fear, not just in the U.S. but in the region, will go
towards Iran funding the kind of terrorism that it's been accused of funding in the past?
KERRY: Right.
Well, to give you an example of the level of distortion and the mythology, I keep hearing people talk about hundreds of billions of dollars that will
be released. That is not what will happen.
The money that has been held back in escrow is money actually that belongs to Iran. But it has not been delivered to Iran under the sanctions regime.
It -- the real amount is somewhere in the vicinity of $50 billion to $55 billion.
Much of that money is already spoken for in Iran because contracts with China, because of bad loans, because of balance of debt payments, because
of infrastructure projects. And for Iran to bring its oil industry back to where it was just five years ago, they would have to invest several hundred
billion dollars.
So, yes, it is probably fair to say something may find its way to some bad or nefarious activity. But the activities that we have objected to that
Iran is engaged in are not fueled primarily by money. And much of the terrorism that has been supported in the region is done on the cheap, not
because of money.
So I do not believe, nor does our intelligence community, that the money released by this, which is not hundreds of billions, but about $50 billion
to $55 billion, that that money is going to be determinative in any way regarding the security of the region.
AMANPOUR: Mr. Secretary, a lot of attention was paid to the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard this week, saying that the United States
remains and is the Great Satan, no matter whether this deal is approved or not.
But just afterwards, I spoke to the powerful head of Iran's parliament --
[10:30:00]
AMANPOUR: -- Ali Larijani, and he said that that was referring to America's past actions and that there may be a more friendly future.
Just take a listen if you would to what he told me about possible better relations with the United States going forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI LARIJANI, SPEAKER OF IRAN'S PARLIAMENT (through translator): And as I said, if the U.S. chooses to adopt a more realistic approach and attitude
towards Iran, then those habits and those terms will naturally change. But I think this agreement can be a beginning for a better understanding on
different issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So Mr. Secretary, do you think that this is an agreement that will do that, have a better understanding and more cooperation on different
issues? For instance, on the Syria war?
KERRY: Well, let me emphasize, Christiane, the agreement is not based on that. There is no expectation nor is the agreement promising that that is
what will happen. But obviously the United States of America would welcome an Iran that wants to join the community of nations in more ways than just
living up to its obligations under the non-proliferation treaty.
We would like to be able to find a way forward to deal with ISIL, with daish. We would like to see a resolution of the conflict in Syria. And
there are other issues.
But it will be up to Iran to clearly make choices that indicate its readiness to move in that direction and in meantime, this agreement is a
nuclear agreement; it is focused on the nuclear challenge. And we are not sitting around counting on some other transformation; we can -- it would be
welcome.
But this agreement is completely separate and focused exclusively on how do we guarantee that there will not be a proliferation in nuclear weapons,
either through Iran or otherwise.
AMANPOUR: Let me just ask you, as I must, the terrible crisis engulfing Europe right now, the flood of refugees, the biggest movement of people
since the end of World War II and the war in Syria is sparking that to a great extent.
We've seen how Germany is being generous to these refugees; we've seen how Hungary and even here in the U.K. governments are not being generous.
What would you say to your counterparts in Europe right now?
KERRY: Well, I just met with a group of my counterparts from Europe and I've listened very carefully to them at a conference that we had in Alaska
regarding climate change. And we had seven foreign ministers who had come together, six of them from Europe.
And they really were seized by this challenge of the migration that is taking place. It's an enormous challenge; it's a very serious issue for
all of us. And we in the State Department are trying to think through various ways to try to make a contribution to solving it.
But one of the key things is resolving Syria, obviously. And resolving Syria requires cooperation with Russia, with Saudi Arabia; we've come
together. We had a meeting a few days ago, a trilateral meeting between Saudi Arabia, Russia, the United States. We are looking at ways to see if
we can find a diplomatic path, a political solution that will have an impact.
But the most critical thing is Assad himself has got to contribute to that and he cannot contribute to it by sitting there and viewing this as a
choice about his future and his longevity as the leader of Syria. There is no way to find a peaceful track if that is the focus.
He is going to have to contribute to the transition that was envisioned in the Geneva process and that's what we're working towards with other
countries at this moment.
AMANPOUR: And, Mr. Secretary, ISIS, as we've seen, has just destroyed a 2,000-year edifice in Palmyra and it continues its rampage against human
life as well. A huge and important strategy session in Aspen in Colorado recently concluded that the only way to defeat ISIS is through a ground
force.
Is there any indication that the United States is moving any closer to gathering some kind of coalition, Western, regional or both, to defeat ISIS
as you have said it needs to be defeated?
KERRY: Well, it does need to be defeated and it has made that more clear putting its exclamation point on that reality, which we all knew anyway,
but in the last days with the beheading of the professor who guarded the antiquities as well as with the destruction of the antiquities and its own
threats and movements within the region, this is a --
[10:35:00]
KERRY: -- very dangerous group and we need to -- we need to increase the pressure on them.
And we are talking about very specific ways to do that with other countries in the region. You are correct; there will need to be people on the
ground. I am convinced there will be at the appropriate moment. And I believe that that pressure will increase and is increasing even as we're
talking in many different ways.
AMANPOUR: Well, you've just raised the idea of a ground force. I've got to ask you, you're talking about the pressure; you say it will happen.
You're convinced.
Who? Who will take part? The United States?
KERRY: Well, I think -- no, the president has said that at least for the time being, the president has made it very clear that American troops are
not part of that equation. And I don't think he has any plans to change that.
But I do know that there are others who are talking about it. There are people in the region who are capable of that. And I believe that everybody
understands -- there are also people in Syria, by the way, already who are capable of that and there are Syrian oppositionists of the regime who are
also capable.
So I believe that, over the next months, with our meetings in New York coming up at the United Nations general assembly and otherwise, this will
be very much a topic of conversation; it already is a topic of conversation. And there will be increased focus on ramping the effort with
respect to ISIL.
AMANPOUR: Secretary of State John Kerry, thank you so much for joining us at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia, just ahead of your big
speech to the American people on this Iran deal. Thanks for joining us.
KERRY: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And that's it, some very, very interesting comments from the secretary of state, Robyn, back to you. We'll be talking about this,
discussing. And of course, very soon, CNN will be carrying the secretary's speech. And as he said, the stakes are very high -- Robyn.
CURNOW: Thanks so much, Christiane, great interview, indeed, stakes very high, saying there this agreement is not based on hope and trust; it's
about verification.
And we will of course bring you that speech live when it happens.
Now as we mentioned, as Christiane went to air there with John Kerry, we heard that U.S. President Barack Obama has secured enough support for the
Iran deal to prevent Republicans from killing it.
Our Sunlen Serfaty join us now from the White House.
What -- I understand that it's not Sunlen we're going to be tossing it to; it's Jim Sciutto, our national security correspondent.
What did you make of what John Kerry just told Christiane?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Robyn, this has been the consistent administration line, really since the start of these
negotiations, that, yes, this is a strong deal, that they have confidence it will be followed by Iran but that that confidence is based not on trust;
it's based on verification measures within the deal.
That's been a tough sell here in Washington, not just with Republicans but with Democrats as well. Plus we learned just in the last few minutes that
now the president has the votes he needs to override a potential veto of the Iran deal.
Senator Barbara Mikulski, a Democrat, who I should note is not running for reelection, she becoming the 34th vote which, by a complicated math of U.S.
legislative procedure, gives the president enough votes to override a veto if, as expected, the Republican-controlled House and Congress vote to
disapprove the Iran deal.
That is a big legislative victory for the president and keep in mind that he didn't even want to have Congress to have the power to vote up or down
on this deal. That was a concession he had to make. And now he has the legislative backing he needs here, even though far below a majority to get
that deal through.
CURNOW: John Kerry also said that this speech that he's going to make in the next 20 minutes or so was about dispelling myths. He spoke about
levels of distortion, mythology. He's clearly -- and this administration clearly right up to the wire, trying to convince the American public that
this is the right thing to do now.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And listen, on both sides -- and I've spent a lot of time in Iran; I've been there 10 times. There's enormous amount of distrust on
both sides, right? And that's certainly the leadership but also in the population. But it's always been interesting to me that oftentimes, for
instance, when I speak to Iranians, they are more open to America than their government and certainly very open to and supportive of this deal.
And when you look at the numbers here in the U.S., several public opinion polls have shown that most Americans support the negotiations, support the
deal.
So really the most skeptical audience --
[10:40:00]
SCIUTTO: -- has been on the Hill, on Capitol Hill here. And listen, some of those are very fair questions, because a lot of the final pieces of this
agreement was seen early in these negotiations -- and I was there in Switzerland as they began these negotiations, where things, concessions get
administration officials at that time would not have been lauding as a success. For instance, all of Iran's nuclear facilities remain in place.
Now certainly under restrictions and changes, but for instance, you have Fordo, which was a secret military facility, still has centrifuges in
there. They're not going to be spinning uranium but you know, a lot of these things, a lot of these remaining questions were ones that early on in
the negotiations would have been surprises; now they're part of the final deal. And the administration has had to convince people that that's not a
problem and they've at least convinced enough Democrats to override a veto.
CURNOW: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much for your --
SCIUTTO: -- override of a veto, I should say.
CURNOW: -- Jim, thanks so much for your perspective. Great to have you on the show.
I'm going to leave it at that and I want to take you now to Elise Labott. She's in Philadelphia. She's been traveling with the Secretary of State
John Kerry.
What we heard John Kerry tell Christiane there as Jim was saying, this is not new. This is what the administration has been saying for a number of
months now. I mean, President Obama coming out just a few weeks ago, saying this is the best deal; it's the strongest non-proliferation
agreement we've ever negotiated, again, also repeating -- we're going to hear in the next 20 minutes -- these attempts by the administration to
dispel what they call myths.
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Robyn. We've heard countless interviews by the secretary; I've interviewed him;
Jim's interviewed him; Christiane's interviewed him. You had the president making a major speech.
Why today does the secretary feel it's necessary to come here to Philadelphia? We were talking to officials last night before we left. And
I said, why does he feel the need to make another speech?
Look, they're coming down to the September recess staying over for Congress. Going to come back to bases and vote and they said they're not
taking any chances. They're going to be fighting for every last vote. And they are -- they do want to dispel what they say are a lot of
misconceptions and misunderstandings about the deal.
And one thing that you've heard out there from critics of the deal, that this deal will allow Iran to cheat. The inspection regime that they've set
up will almost guarantee that Iran can cheat and as soon as the deal is over, we'll be able to move towards nuclear weapon.
I think what the secretary's going to do is lay out the elements of the deal and why those myths are, in their view, untrue. For instance, the
idea that Iran can, behind everybody's back at the inspections, are not as tight as they should be, would be able to develop a nuclear weapon.
He's saying, listen, these are not things that you could hide under a rug, flush down the toilet. He said there is no way Iran can, in closed doors,
develop a whole fuel cycle and all the material needed for a nuclear weapon outside of international eyes and international intelligence.
So I think he's going to lay out the fallacy of some of the critics out there and lay again the case in particular about concerns about Israel and
the Gulf states. That's what you've heard a lot from Congress; this morning Secretary Kerry sent a letter to all lawmakers on Capitol Hill,
laying out what the administration is prepared to do to make sure that other activity, other terrorists and destabilizing activity from Iran
continues to be countered.
Secretary Kerry said he has no doubt that Iran will continue to try and foment destabilizing in the region. But at the same time, just because
they're signing a nuclear deal with Iran does not mean they're going to take their eye off the ball on some of this other nefarious activity.
CURNOW: However, he did concede that having Iran at the table might be useful in terms of international politics, geopolitics, and particular over
the issue of Syria.
LABOTT: I think that that's their great hope. And that's been the hope all along. And you've seen letters from President Obama to the Supreme
Leader saying this, President Obama has said it out loud.
But you get mixed messages from Iran. I mean, Ali Larijani told Christiane, yes, we were hoping that this could be a new era. But there
are many hardliners in Iran, many clerics that do not want to see that type of cooperation. And the Supreme Leader himself has sent mixed messages; on
one hand, talking about a new era; on the other hand saying that, you know, Iranian resistance to Israel, Iran's feelings about America are not going
to change.
Look, this is not going to happen overnight. But I think what the feeling is, that once you bring Iran into the fold, once you start getting their
cooperation, that could help with other areas.
And I think one of the things you're going to see this administration do is try and get Iran to have a better relationship --
[10:45:00]
LABOTT: -- with its neighbors in the region, particularly Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, and if Iran does not feel as if it needs to kind of thwart
over its neighbors in the region, perhaps over the long term, there could be a better relationship between Iran and the West and between Iran and its
own neighbors.
CURNOW: Elise Labott, thank you.
And of course we now have a very clear idea of what the secretary of state will be saying in that speech in the next 15 minutes.
You're watching the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Robyn Curnow. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll be right back after a short break.
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CURNOW: Welcome to the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Robyn Curnow. Here's a check of the headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW (voice-over): Turkey has confirmed 18 Turkish contractors were kidnapped in Baghdad. Syrian officials say the group was working in Iraq
for a construction company. Right now Turkish authorities say they don't have many details on how it happen or who may have been responsible.
Syrian state television is reporting at least 10 people have been killed in a car bomb attack. It happened in the government stranglehold of Latakia,
which has largely been spared the violence that is ravaging other parts of the country. State media blamed the attack on, quote, "terrorists," Syrian
officials' term for anti-government forces.
U.S. secretary of state is about to lobby for the Iran deal in a speech in Philadelphia in the next hour. The White House just secured the final vote
is needed to prevent Republicans in the U.S. Senate from scuttling the agreement. Congress votes later this month.
Hungary's prime minister will meet with European Union officials Thursday to talk about the growing migrant crisis. Hundreds of migrants hoping to
board trains to Germany and Austria remain stranded in Hungary's capital, Budapest. Hungary insists they need valid passports and, in some cases,
visas to travel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: The migrant crisis has thrown the Schengen agreement into the spotlight. The decades-old pact allows open travel within most of Europe
and it's considered one of the cornerstones of the E.U. But some European politicians want the Schengen scaled back as Isa Soares now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They've escaped the horrors of war and persecution on rickety boats, on crowded trains and on all fours,
crawling throughout the night, all in the hope of reaching the safety of Europe.
For many, Hungary is the entry point to Europe's borderless zone, the Schengen area. But as the number of migrants reaching the Union increases
daily, some have questioned the very purpose of this European project.
ANDREJ BABIS, CZECH FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): We really need to close the Schengen area, which means we need to protect Schengen, we
need to prevent the immigrants from coming here.
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): I am simply saying that if we are unable to agree on a fair distribution of refugees
within Europe, then some people will start to call Schengen into question. We do not want that. We want a fair --
[10:50:00]
MERKEL (through translator): -- distribution of refugees and then we won't need to discuss Schengen.
SOARES (voice-over): Implemented in 1994, the Schengen agreement eliminated internal border controls, which allowed citizens from 26 member
states to travel freely around most of Europe.
Twenty years on, and Schengen remains fundamental to the very idea of the European Union. And it covers 7,721 kilometers of land borders. And what
it does, it allows some 400 million E.U. citizens to work, to travel and to live in any of these E.U. countries without the need for special
formalities -- and by that I mean visas and paperwork, really no red tape.
Trade and security between these countries also shared. And as you can imagine, they benefit greatly from it. But some argue that with the rise
of ISIS and with large numbers of migrants arriving in the bloc from Africa as well as the Middle East, a borderless Europe is exacerbating the crisis.
RICHARD OUKLIS, DIRECTOR, THE BRUGERS GROUP: There is actually sort of growing pressure that's welling up from some parts of the population, but
also amongst various politicians, that say that the ideals of the European Union, the ideals behind the Schengen agreement, are actually causing
problems and will create difficulties. So in time this could be one of the issues which really does shatter elements of the European unity.
SOARES (voice-over): At a time when Europe is calling for more integration, physical divisions are going up from Hungary, Bulgaria, Calais
to Malia (ph), fences or walls of barbed wire are being built. It's an image that takes a continent back to 1999, when the last border fell right
here in Europe -- Isa Soares, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Well, we want to talk more about Europe's dilemma with Iain Begg, the professor at the London School of Economics.
Thanks so much for joining me.
We heard there Isa's package and there seems to be this very stark choice between fair distribution or breakdown of Europe's borders.
Is it that stark?
IAIN BEGG, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: No, I don't think it is. What we're really seeing here is an extremely unprecedented flow of migrants
coming principally from three countries, Eritrea, Syria and Afghanistan, trying to arrive in Europe as asylum seekers or refugees.
And that's been compounded by a number of economic migrants coming from a number of African countries.
The sheer volume is more than the entry points -- Hungary, Greece and Italy -- can cope with. And that's why they're asking the other parts of the
European Union to share the burden.
Now Schengen may be a complicating factor in this. But those migrants will be arriving regardless of whether Schengen was in place or not. And that's
an illusion that's being fostered, that somehow Schengen is to blame for this.
It just means that people can more rather more freely from one country to another than they would if strong borders exist, let's say, between Italy
and France or between Hungary and Austria.
CURNOW: You talked about the burden, particularly being faced by Greece, Italy and Hungary. Hungary's being very vocal. They've been on this
program, the spokesman saying they're doing what is expected of them under E.U. rules and regulations; however, many people have expressed disgust at
the way Hungary is treating these migrants.
What's your view on all of this?
BEGG: My view on it is that it's correct to say that Hungary's doing what it should do, which is to try to process asylum seekers in the country in
which they first enter the E.U. That's a convention that's been in place for a good 20 years inside the E.U., known as the Dublin convention.
Hungary is implementing it.
Because of the numbers in Coventry (ph) Station in Budapest, they're having to do this in a rather harsh manner. And that's where some of the
objections are coming in. They're also policing their border with Serbia, which is the point of entry, much more strictly than many other countries
do; that, too, is consistent with E.U. rules, which is that you should have a strong external border and no borders inside, a bit like the U.S. has
with the Rio Grande as the border between Mexico and the United States. You don't blame Texas for this. It's a policy of the states as a whole.
CURNOW: So there's been a lot of talk about a unified strategy. But Germany does seem to be taking the role, a leadership role, in the face of
what seems to be inertia or, at least, confusion in Brussels.
What do you expect is going to come out of that might in the next two weeks?
And do you think anything concrete is going to be decided?
BEGG: I think there will be a huge amount of pressure coming from Berlin for other countries to share in absorbing the number of migrants that's
coming in and specifically the asylum seekers. We must distinguish here between asylum seekers and the economic migrants, which is never an easy
boundary --
[10:55:00]
BEGG: -- to cross.
And there, I think, the Germans are saying we are taking large numbers and we're welcoming Syrians. You other countries -- and here they're talking
about Slovakia. They're talking about the United Kingdom -- you're not taking your share of this. And unless you do so, we will have ways of
persuading you that you won't like in other circumstances -- for example, David Cameron is trying to renegotiate Britain's position vis-a-vis the
E.U. Without German support, he's not going to get very far on that.
CURNOW: So there's been -- and trying to put this into perspective, into historical perspective, people have said this is the greatest human
migration within Europe since World War II.
Does this -- does what we're seeing now have the potential to shatter the E.U.?
BEGG: No, I don't think so, because it's not a problem caused by the E.U. nor by the free movement inside the E.U.; it's one which has landed on the
E.U.'s doorstep because of failures of foreign policy.
The medium- to long-term solution is to deal with the difficulties in Syria and Eritrea, two of the countries which are the main sources of the
migrants. And that cannot be done overnight because of -- it's such an intractable problem. But that's one solution to it.
A second one is better security. Better security leads to precisely the sorts of pictures we see in Hungary and Greece of difficulties in absorbing
the migrants and being harsh with them when they arrive.
So there is a tension here about how to deal with it.
The third angle to it is going to be dealing with it, once the migrants arrive, and that's where the German approach of burden sharing has to be
the basis for a true answer.
CURNOW: OK. Iain Begg, thank you so much for giving us your perspective from London. Thank you very much.
BEGG: Thank you.
CURNOW (voice-over): Well, you're watching CNN and we're keeping an eye on Philadelphia. There you can see U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is
waiting to take the podium. He is going to address the American people. He's going to try and lobby again for the Iran deal. He spoke to our
Christiane Amanpour just a few moments ago, saying that in the speech he would deal with a number of myths out there about the Iran deal.
We're going to go now to break. But we will take you to that speech as soon as he takes that podium. Thanks so much for watching.
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