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Jane Velez-Mitchell
What Did Cooper`s Mom Know and When?
Aired July 07, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in that horrific hot car death case everybody in the country is talking about. A married
dad, accused of murdering his toddler son by intentionally leaving the young boy to bake inside a sweltering hot car for seven agonizing hours
while he sexted with half a dozen women, sending photos of his private parts. And the shockers continue tonight. We`ve gotten ahold of 16 newly-
released search warrants as the focus shifts from Justin Ross Harris to his wife, Leanna. What did 2-year-old Cooper`s mom know and when?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tragic accident or premeditated murder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father says he forgot to take the boy to day care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or something more sinister?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New search warrants just released this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up to six different conversations with different women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged with murder and second-degree child cruelty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His exposed penis, erect penis being sent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted to live a child-free life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She asked him about cheating on his life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Left for seven hours in his father`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A tragedy and an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or something much worse?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, authorities are looking for more evidence into Ross Harris`s secret double life, saying they have just scratched the
surface.
Just-obtained search warrants reveal cops want the medical records of Harris and his little boy, a DVD, a memory card, a thumb drive, an external
hard drive and, of course, they want to study his phone. They are trying to find more about his alleged sexting with six other women, including one
who was originally 16 years old and who had turned 17 by the time his child was dying inside a hot car. Could they be trying to determine how much his
wife knows? That`s how it looks.
Leanna Harris isn`t charged with anything. We want to stress that. Cops tell us she`s not under investigation. Only part of the
investigation.
But tonight, huge questions about her suspicious behavior. The big question hanging in the air: could Cooper`s mom be the next one charged?
Authorities seem to be laying out a case against her, making it a point to note her odd behavior. OK? Statements that she made in the wake
of her child`s horrific death, even recounting what she and her husband discussed after the child`s death when they were reunited by police.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She asked him -- she had him sit down. And he starts doing through this. And she looks at him and she`s like, "Well, did
you say too much?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant say anything to you that brought concern?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And once again, as we`re watching their reunion, after he`s talking about how Cooper looked peaceful and his eyes were
closed and he just, you know, looked like he was sleeping, he goes -- he goes, "I dreaded how he would look."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dreaded, past tense?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As in past tense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, new outrage over Ross Harris, the dad, allegedly trying to cash in on the 2-year-old`s life insurance policy.
What do you have to say about all this? I really want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to WSB radio reporter Veronica Waters in Atlanta. What is the very latest?
VERONICA WATERS, WSB RADIO REPORTER: Well, Jane, you hit the nail on the head. Cobb County police have said Leanna Harris, Ross Harris`s wife,
is not the focus of this investigation, but she`s a part of it. So if they`re trying to make her a suspect, they are keeping that on the down-
low.
But some very odd statements have come out of Leanna Harris`s mouth, as we heard from detective Phil Stoddard on the stand at the probable cause
hearing.
First of all, when the couple was first reunited after Cooper Harris was killed in that hot car, Leanna Harris asked her husband, as he was
bemoaning the fact that he would probably be charged with a felony and lose his job over this, "Did you say too much?" Kind of an odd question. Let`s
rewind the tape to when she went to pick up Cooper at the day care that day...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know what? I`ll tell you what. We actually have that piece of sound that you`re referring to.
WATERS: OK.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to play it because it is sort of the key thing that is perplexing everyone. How would she be able to say this?
Cops raised major suspicion, laying out damning evidence against Ross Harris`s wife, Leanna.
Now, she has not been named a suspect. I want to stress that. She`s invited on our show anytime. We`ve been trying to reach out.
But listen closely to the very first thing she said, according to cops, after she shows up to pick up her son at day care and learns he had
never been dropped off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once she walked into the day care, she walked back to Cooper`s classroom, where she ran into Michelle. And she asked, you
know, "What are you doing here?"
And Leanna`s like, "Well, I`m here to pick up Cooper."
And like "Ross never dropped Cooper off."
And she`s like -- just got really calm. She`s like, "Well, I don`t know what to do." They walked back out into the lobby, and in front of
several witnesses, all of a sudden she states, "Ross must have left him in the car."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the Lion`s Den. "Ross must have left him in the car." How on earth could she immediately jump to that
conclusion and that, by the way, being a correct conclusion?
Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, what`s that old poem [SIC], "Telltale Heart"? Are you kidding me? This is like a mother who
can`t help herself from saying the things she probably knows she shouldn`t be saying, but she`s trying to make it look like she`s the innocent mother
looking for her kid. But her brain knows the truth. So out it comes.
I mean, come on. There is no innocent explanation for why you would say that, none.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Brian Claypool...
BRIAN CLAYPOOL, ATTORNEY: Yes, there is. Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, go ahead.
CLAYPOOL: Yes, there is, Jane. Have you taken a look at this guy? He really, really looks like a John Belushi character out of "Animal
House." He`s really irresponsible. He`s emotionally bankrupt. And with all the sexting you`re talking about, I wouldn`t be surprised, Jane, if his
lawyer brings up a diminished capacity defense, because this guy...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse me, Brian. Excuse me, Brian. He`s a web designer.
CLAYPOOL: This guy was dead set on getting to the office. Pardon me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s a web designer.
CLAYPOOL: He`s a web designer. He`s a web designer by day. He was sexting six women. He may have an addiction that may prevent him from
being responsible...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t disagree with you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m so tired of addiction.
CLAYPOOL: That negates criminal intent. That negates it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse me. First of all, we were talking about how could the wife have correctly predicted what the husband did.
Now, let`s give Lisa Lockwood, investigator, author of "Undercover"...
CLAYPOOL: Could I explain now?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You had your chance. I`ll get back to you -- Lisa.
LISA LOCKWOOD, INVESTIGATOR: Thank you, Jane.
The only way the wife is going to predict that he`s done this is if he had done it before. So if we`re saying that he`s adult and he`s not
mentally capable, and he`s a John Belushi character, et cetera, then he`s done it before and she had a hunch. "Well, I guess he did it again."
Maybe that`s why they were so concerned about it, because he`s left the child...
MURPHY: There`s no evidence of that. You can`t just make stuff up. There is no evidence of that whatsoever. That`s not -- that`s not...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There may not be any evidence of this. But...
MURPHY: There`s no evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There may not be any evidence, but there`s also no plausible explanation for her lack of emotion.
MURPHY: Yes, consciousness of guilt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, this is not -- I find this very, very odd. Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, please. One at a time. I`ve got to ask you guys, one at a time.
CLAYPOOL: It`s not a crime.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Honestly, let`s keep it like a lively discussion. But when people can`t hear anything at home when everybody`s talking at
once, so Brianne Desellier, attorney, please, you weigh in.
BRIANNE DESELLIER, ATTORNEY: Yes. I just think this lack of emotion is just very, very odd. And I think there`s two very odd things here. No.
1, these Internet searches that she did. And No. 2 is lack of emotion. Because when you -- this combination of facts, there`s no plausible
explanation for this in my mind.
This is just not how you would expect a woman who just lost her only child to behave. And then forget about her comments at the funeral itself,
and she was describing herself as happy that her son doesn`t have to suffer through his first heartbreak and just be part of this broken world.
I mean, I might be projecting, but I think that if I just lost my only child, I would not describe myself as happy; I would not be grateful. I
would not be anything.
So this is just -- I find this very, very odd. And I think that you can tell a lot about what`s going on inside of her head just kind of by her
outward emotions here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me tell you what`s happening on Facebook. Cher says, "I think the mom is in on it, too. She sounded too rehearsed at
the funeral. We will all grieve differently, but she has an agenda." Again, this is just somebody`s opinion.
Christina: "I really felt bad for these parents when this first happened, but wow, the evidence is bad. And it`s obvious this wasn`t an
accident. They both deserve to be in jail."
Now, I don`t think it`s fair to convict this mom. She hasn`t been charged with anything. Cops don`t even call her a suspect.
But here`s what my question is to Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist. Why on earth, when she`s talking to her husband after they`ve been
reunited, OK, she says, "Did you say too much?" What -- why would you say that if there was not a "too much" to tell?
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It makes you wonder what kind of conversation did this couple have before this horrible incident happened?
And it`s almost like the wife is blaming her husband for getting caught for the crime, almost like they somehow theorized, if their child died in this
way, then perhaps they would be considered innocent victims in some way.
But I think one of the things that`s so striking, in addition to this mother`s odd leaps of comments -- "Oh, my husband must have left the son in
the car -- my son in the car" -- why isn`t this woman more angry? Why isn`t she more panicked? Why did she assume that the husband left her son
in the car in the first place, unless it happened before? But why not say, "Oh, my God, let me call my husband and find out if everything`s OK. I
want to make sure they`re both all right."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In her defense, she had spoken to him for about a minute less than an hour earlier, and maybe that`s why she said, "Well, I
just -- I talked to him less than an hour earlier," and did the math in her head, saying, "He never said anything about not dropping off our son, so he
must have left him in the car." I mean, I don`t know if that`s her line of reasoning. But I`m saying it`s a possibility.
Coming up, a Marine`s pregnant wife goes missing without a trace. Police suspect foul play. They have very few clues. What happened to this
beautiful young woman? Why did her husband wait an entire day to report her missing?
But first, a whole lot more on the hot car death that has outraged the nation. The death of little Cooper Harris, 22 months old. Will
investigators uncover more sordid details about this dad`s triple-X-rated double life?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty seconds after he had kissed his son good- bye for the last time, he`s at that decision where he decides to go to work.
He stops when a person starts walking toward his car and waits until that person passes, 30 seconds. With that child right beside him.
We believe the evidence has shown much more than that. We believe the evidence has shown that this was intentional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just starts screaming. And she`s like, "What do you mean Cooper`s no longer here? What do you mean?" And during this
conversation with all this emotion coming out, she asked Leanna...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s the emotion coming from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The emotion is coming from her mom, or who she identified as her mom. And during this, she`s like, "Why aren`t you
crying? Why aren`t you reacting to this?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did Leanna say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said, "I must be in shock."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: New questions about Leanna, the mother of this dead child, but of course, the man charged is her husband, Justin Ross Harris,
known to Ross -- known as Ross to his friends. Now, cops say while his son was roasting to death, locked in the backseat of his father`s parked car,
OK, in a child seat, his dad was sexting with six different women, sending naked pictures of his private parts back and forth. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was having up to six different conversations with different women, it appeared, from the messages, from Kik mostly,
which is a messaging service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of what nature were they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most common term would be sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were photos being sent back and forth between these women and the defendant during this day while the child`s out in the
car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, there are photos of his exposed penis -- erect penis being sent. There were also photos of women`s breasts being
sent back to him.
She said something to him to the effect of, "Do you have a conscience?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was his response?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Nope."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No conscience, huh?
One of the six women he was carrying on a sexual relationship with was allegedly underaged when it started. She was 16, but she was 17 at the
time of little Cooper`s death. Another was a somewhat older woman.
Now, we have to point out, Harris says his wife was aware of him previously cheating.
Straight out to the Lion`s Den. And my very special exclusive guest, Chris Wilkinson. And you were a friend of Ross Harris, the defendant in
this case. And I understand that you knew him back in Alabama. They -- the couple moved to Georgia a couple of years ago. But you knew him before
that. And he fixed your computer or something to that effect. Tell us a little bit about the impression you got of this man, Chris?
CHRIS WILKINSON, FRIEND OF ROSS HARRIS (via phone): You know, the whole description of him a second ago as morally bankrupt and a character
out of "Animal House" just does not gel with the guy I knew. You know, he was a very responsible, decent, appeared by all indications to love his
child.
You know, he hold three things sacred here in the south: football, religion and family. And this guy was the paragon of that. So for all
this to come out it`s rather shocking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You actually played with little Cooper. Tell us about the interaction between this man and his son, his only child.
WILKINSON: He was proud -- I had run into them at a football game. You know, it was nothing planned. And I just happened to run into them at
a university football game. And he was like, "Well, meet Cooper." And at that point, I had heard him in the background on the phone. And so I was
like, sure. Everybody loves babies. And he was very prideful. You know, this was his joy, this was his pride, his progeny. He was very proud to be
Cooper`s daddy. And I just -- you know, the picture that`s been painted by all this evidence just does not match what we know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when you hear that he has been sexting -- and I hate to be too blunt, but he was sexting photos, allegedly, of his erect
private parts -- I have to say it. This is what was mentioned in open court. And he was doing this allegedly with several women, getting photos
of breasts back, how do you dovetail that with the person that you knew?
WILKINSON: I don`t. I mean, this is someone I don`t know. This is someone morally bankrupt. This is somebody that -- you know, I`m sure more
people -- probably more people do it than we know, and probably there`s folks that we know that do it. But it`s a private thing. And of course,
it`s not publicized on national television...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Chris...
WILKINSON: ... because they`re not accused of a crime. But this is just unbelievable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know what you`re talking about, because pornography and this kind of behavior is rampant in our culture. But this man is
accused of doing this while authorities believe he intentionally allowed his son to die in a hot car.
WILKINSON: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Which would be to me almost the definition of evil. Did he ever mention his wife? Because she admitted to police they were
having marital problems, intimacy problems. Did he ever talk about his wife?
WILKINSON: I mean, in passing. You know, I remember one occasion we were on the phone and he was helping me with something for the website.
And he was -- I guess the baby was fussing, and he was like, you know, "Leanna, can you get Cooper real quick, or do I need to get Cooper?" I
can`t even remember the context in what he said.
But, you know, everybody has marital problems. So that part of it doesn`t surprise me. But it does surprise me that apparently she was aware
and no one else was and that it was OK. But you know, each to his own as far as that goes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Chris, I want to ask you to stand by, because Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, in the hearing, authorities made an -- a
reference to the idea or the concept that she was aware that he had cheated in the past.
Now, it wasn`t laid out, you know, concretely, because this is question and answer, and there were objections from the defense, et cetera.
But is she was aware of his cheating, does that factor into this toxic scenario?
LUDWIG: You know, it could if she wanted to find a way to keep her husband. Who knows what kind of plan they came up with? Who knows what
came up in her mind?
You know, very often, marriage feels very different when you have a child added into the mix. You really need new and better coping skills in
order to handle all the demands that come a family`s way. Perhaps these two have the idea their marriage would be better if a child was no longer
in the mix. Perhaps the wife had the fantasy -- the fantasy that if -- you know, that maybe the husband wouldn`t cheat if they had a more solid
relationship.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chris, I want to go back to you. Did he mention that it was hard for them to have this child, that they had -- his wife had
fertility issues?
WILKINSON: It wasn`t anything that he discussed personally with me. But it was pretty common knowledge just from posts on Facebook and all
that, you know, Cooper was planned out; he was very wanted. I`m not sure under which circumstances he was conceived.
But you know, you would think, given the fact that they did have difficulty conceiving and whatnot and that they`re older, that this
wouldn`t have become a huge issue in keeping their marriage alive, so to speak.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Chris, I want to thank you for taking the time. I know you`re one of the only people who knows this defendant who`s
talking. And we really appreciate the fact that you chose to speak on our show and give us some insight. And, you know, that`s what everybody says,
seemed like such a nice guy. Seemed like such a nice guy, but he`s living a double life. And that, we can say.
Don`t forget to check out our Facebook page. And please do me a favor, Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook, like it while you`re there. That
would really help me out. Facebook.com/JaneVelezMitchell [SIC].
Next, more on the suspicious death of Cooper Harris. What, if anything, did his mom know?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just screamed, "What have I done?" loudly. Obviously, it was a bit dramatic, you know, hands in the air, looking up
towards the sky, "What have I done," type of thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 22-month-old boy died from extreme heat exposure after being left in the backseat of his father`s car for hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the investigative information suggests the manner of death is homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutors say Ross Harris wanted to live a child- free life based on Internet searches they`ve uncovered that he made, allegedly. In addition to researching how long it takes a child to die in
a hot car, cops claim he was obsessed with websites showing all different sorts of ways to die. And just five days before he left his son to die in
a hot car, he watched a video of a vet demonstrating how unbelievably hot it gets inside a parked car in the summer.
Take a look at this very video from YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ERNIE WARD, VETERINARIAN: I thought I would put myself in a parked car, and let`s see just how hot it gets. Come on.
A hundred and thirteen degrees. It`s awful. The only thought that`s going through my head right now is, I just -- I want out of the car. You
know, it`s just -- everything in my body is saying, get out, get out, get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joining me now, a very special guest, the vet who stars in that video, Dr. Ernie Ward.
Doctor, we shudder to think what this child went through. But we know he was fine when he was having breakfast with his dad, witnesses say. And
then when his body was investigated, he had scratches to his face, lacerations to the back of his head. It`s in the 90s outside. What did
this child go through -- and he was strapped in tight. Can you describe the likely scenario, as tough as it must be to describe?
WARD: Yes, Jane, I mean, the nation can`t stop talking about this tragic and horrific event. I made this video basically to try to raise
awareness to the dangers of leaving dogs in parked cars. I mean, untold hundreds of dogs die each year, and as a veterinarian in the south, I
wanted to do something to save those lives. And we have. This video`s been very effective at moving people to think twice.
And of course, this -- with the child`s death -- I mean, I can tell you firsthand that it is an unbelievable feeling of helplessness. I mean,
you really -- you know, as I describe in the video, all you want to do is get out. And this is an infant strapped in a car seat, helpless,
powerless. I just cannot imagine the suffering that must have -- must have occurred.
And you know, again, this tragic accident, this whatever it turns out to be -- we just really want justice. I think the nation needs to have
peace when these horrific events occur.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, again, the child had scratches to his face, lacerations on the back of his head. We know that he was too big for the
car seat that he was in. So his head popped out. You could imagine him frantically strapped in, trying -- trying and then wondering, "Where`s
daddy? Where`s daddy? Why did he...?" I can`t even -- I can`t even begin to contemplate...
WARD: You can`t. You can`t speak to children. But having, you know, experienced this with dogs over the years, I mean, you see them. They
destroy the inside of these cars. I mean, they claw the windows until their paws are bloody. I mean, they almost break windows out.
So I mean, again, I don`t think any of us can imagine -- and as a parent myself, these are the types of things that we really want to raise
awareness so that it never happens again. And if this turns out that it is of some -- you know, some criminal nature, again, the nation demands
justice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. I`ve got to go back to psychotherapist Robi Ludwig. The idea of an innocent 22-month-old child being strapped in
there by Daddy, who kissed him, by the way, before he strapped him in and wondering, "Where`s Daddy? Where`s Daddy? Why did he leave me here?" I
can`t even -- it`s too -- it boggles the mind.
LUDWIG: Jane, it`s painful. I have to tell you, when I was researching for this story, I did a search on "what happens if you leave a
child in a car." And they have a public announcement service video, where they show a normal-looking mom choosing to leave her child in the car just
to go shopping quickly. And what happens to the child? The overheating that goes on in just 15 minutes. And it can be 70 degrees out, and this
can happen. I could not get through the video, and I knew it was a public announcement video, because it was just too painful to see. You just don`t
want to go there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And police are saying that this guy did this intentionally. They used the word -- prosecutors used the word
"intentionally." That inside his air-conditioned office he is sexting with women and sending them photos of his erect private parts.
Now why? Because the focus has shifted to the wife -- why? What possible motive would she have to go along with something like that? She
has not been charged with any crime whatsoever.
We`re going to debate that on the other side. And we`re taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up to six different conversations with different women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged with murder and second-degree child cruelty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His exposed (EXPLETIVE DELETED) being sent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted to live a child-free life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was yelling. He was hollering. He was screaming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For leaving Cooper in a hot car for several hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe the evidence has shown much more than that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or something more sinister?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into this broken world would be selfish. Am I angry with Ross? Absolutely
not. It has never crossed my mind. Ross is and was and will be, if we have more children, a wonderful father. Ross is a wonderful daddy and a
leader for our children. Cooper meant the world to him.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a re-enactment of what Leanna, the wife, the mother of this child, said at her son`s funeral. It seems like her focus
is entirely on her husband. And cops say when Leanna was told of her son`s death, she asked to see her husband first rather than the little boy`s
corpse.
Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor -- I mean we`re trying to understand, what on earth would motivate -- she`s not charged with anything but the
focus has shifted to her. Let`s face it, people are asking. Why would she say that? That she wouldn`t bring her child back? Why would she be so
loyal to her husband given what we now know? What motive would she have to go along with this?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think it`s tied to the same question we`ve asked about why would this guy do this to his kid who he
seemingly loved? They had trouble getting pregnant. They finally get this beloved child -- everybody says they love the child. Oh my God, suddenly
the kid is dead and boy it was intentional. But we have no idea why.
Clearly these two are in cahoots. They clearly know why the child died. And in my opinion, rank speculation, the child was killed to cover
up something else that was going on, probably related to this weird sex stuff he was doing on the Internet, perhaps with his own child. I say that
because the guy spent his entire day with an erect penis and women, you know -- you don`t just do weird sex stuff on the Internet without having at
least some interest in to children --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want -- ok, Brian Claypool, all right --
MURPHY: -- and sexual activity.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Wendy, we got your point. But Brian Claypool -- you`re the defense. There was a reference by prosecutors
during the hearing, something to the effect of, was he doing this highly sexual stuff with someone else in the room? The implication that he was
doing this while his young son is somewhere in the room.
BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t know if that`s true or not, Jane. Here`s the problem I have with the analysis by
Wendy. She says they`re in cahoots. The last time I checked, you need evidence. You need tangible evidence to hold the mom responsible for
conspiracy. You need an agreement. We don`t have a text message, last time I checked. We don`t have any e-mails. We don`t have any voice mail
messages. And we don`t have any discussions at all about those two collaborating to kill their son.
We have stop viewing this from emotion and parenting. I have a little girl, too. I`m trying to remain objective and see if there is evidence out
there that suggests they`re in cahoots. I don`t see anything --
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: There`s a ton of evidence.
CLAYPOOL: Zero right now.
LISA LOCKWOOD, INVESTIGATOR: I believe what the police are doing right now --
MURPHY: There`s a ton.
CLAYPOOL: Zero.
LOCKWOOD: Detectives are doing it with their search warrants.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Lockwood.
CLAYPOOL: But you don`t have anything yet. And everybody is -- Jane, people need to slow down plugging in the electric chair for both Justin and
this woman. I don`t agree with what happened. It shouldn`t have happened. But to say they planned this -- why would they fight to have a child?
MURPHY: I didn`t say they planned it. I said they are in cahoots.
(CROSSTALK)
CLAYPOOL: Jane, why would Leanna --
MURPHY: Being in cahoots means that she`s covering for him.
(CROSSTALK)
BRIANNE DESELLIER, ATTORNEY: I agree with you, Wendy.
LOCKWOOD: Let me answer. Let me respond to --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Please stop everyone. I want to give Lisa Lockwood a chance to way in, then Brianna. So start, Lisa.
LOCKWOOD: So with the search, the new search warrants that the police have put into action, that`s what they`re doing. They`re trying to
ascertain if she was in cahoots. That`s their job to find out what her role was in all this. To have a woman who did an Internet search and
allege that she was doing it because it was her biggest fear to find out what happens to a child in a car and how long does it take a child to die?
That coupled with the fact that he did it.
Now you could say one thing, maybe she was emotionally abused if you want to look at motive. Maybe she did want to get rid of this child
because she wanted to keep him because their relationship was in such turmoil.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brianne Desellier -- I hope I pronounced your name right -- they did have intimacy problems, according to the wife. They also
had money problems, according to prosecutors. He was passed over for promotion. He didn`t get another job he wanted. Student loans, car loans,
$4,000 in credit card debt -- I mean while they looked fine on the outside, they were possibly a mess as a couple. Was this -- could this
hypothetically be a way to clean up the mess?
DESELLIER: Jane, exactly. I think that this is a classic case of things are not always as they seem. And the interesting thing about this
case that I think we do need to remember is that usually in a case like this, you have the defense and you have the victim.
In this case, the defendant and the victim are kind of the same. So we have to remember that she is not an unbiased bystander in this case.
She`s not your typical victim searching for justice.
So here`s what I think is going on. I think that she took a page out of Casey Anthony`s book. If you were in that trial, there was a little bit
of cross finger-pointing going on. And mom got on the stand and took responsibility for those Internet searches. I think that`s a little bit of
what`s going on here with mom.
Yes, she`s showing an utter lack of emotion, which I think is very, very odd. I mean I seriously saw people showing more emotion at the World
Cup game last week when the United States lost than she is showing after her child`s death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the mother is in red there in the middle.
DESELLIER: But that doesn`t mean she killed -- yes, it doesn`t she killed her child. But I think that she might be just cross finger-pointing
a little bit and that`s going to really help the defense because that`s going to prevent the prosecution from really being able to prove --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very, very quickly -- sorry to cut you off. Carleen, Washington -- are you still there. Carleen, Washington?
CARLEEN, WASHINGTON (via telephone): Yes, I`m here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you have to say? We only have a couple of seconds.
CARLEEN: Ok. Well, my question was what kind of car seat was he in which was already answered by your receptionist that he was in a rear-
facing car seat. That makes absolutely no sense to me. A child that age - - normally once a child is able to sit up on their own, which certainly a 22-month-old should, and reaches a certain weight, would be in a forward-
facing car seat, of course in the backseat but still forward-facing, which it seems to me would be a lot harder to forget --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guess what, Carleen, detectives claim Cooper`s parents bought a new forward-facing car seat just weeks before his death
but then switched back to his old rear-facing car seat, one he was apparently too small for. Just another bit of evidence -- we`re going to
stay on top of this case. And new developments every day so count on it tomorrow.
Up next, a very disturbing mystery. A Marine`s beautiful pregnant wife vanishes on the way to Joshua Tree National Park, supposedly. Why are
cops calling her disappearance quite suspicious tonight?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pregnant wife of a Marine went missing Saturday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope she`s out there and I hope she can see this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The possibility of foul play is very real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just doesn`t seem real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erin Corwin vanished without a trace. She had been scoping out locations in California`s Joshua Tree National Park to
take photographs when she went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s a little on the timid side. Maybe a little bit on the naive side. But once she got to know you, you had a
friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her husband who is in the U.S. Marine corps reported her disappearance the following day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are also looking at it as a potential criminal investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news in the mysterious disappearance of a beautiful pregnant wife of a U.S. Marine colonel. Cops are now calling the
circumstances quite suspicious. 19-year-old Erin Corwin has been missing for more than a week now. She reportedly left her home in 29 Palms,
California, to go to nearby Joshua Tree National Park. Her husband of a year and a half, a Marine colonel is the one who reported her missing the
next day. But did she even make it to the park?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORE HEAVILIN, ERIN CORWIN`S MOTHER: We also talked about her running out to Joshua Tree to kind of, you know, just kind of scope out a
couple of different places that we might want to just go look at and take some pictures. She would have never gone off trail for very far.
We always joked with her and have a running joke that she could not find her way out of a brown paper bag because she has no sense of
direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Investigators have been searching the sprawling desert for any trace of this young woman. A key clue -- two days after she
vanished, they found her car near her home in 29 Palms which adjoined the huge 29 Palms Marine Corps` base where her husband operates.
Cops call her disappearance suspicious. Homicide detectives have now been brought in. Erin is an animal lover and volunteers at a horse shelter
in California. Days after her disappearance, her mom learned that her daughter was three months pregnant.
Straight out to Pete Demetriou, reporter with KNX News Radio -- Pete you know the area very well, what are your sources telling you why they`re
calling this suspicious?
PETE DEMETRIOU, REPORTER, KNX NEWS RADIO: Simply because somebody doesn`t vanish into a puff of air and leave behind everything that they
have in the way of a family and anything that they would use to get around in an area as rugged as the Joshua Tree National Park, namely her car. It
was nowhere near Joshua Tree.
Even so they`re operating on the best information that they had that she might have gone into Joshua Tree and there in lies the problem. That`s
1,235 square miles of extremely inhospitable country. Temperatures there have been averaging over the last seven to eight days the search has been
under way anywhere from 99 to 110 degrees with less than 10 percent humidity. That`s not a very habitable place, to say the least.
And they`ve been working it very hard. You mentioned homicide investigators are involved, absolutely, along with the sheriff`s
specialized investigation section. They`ve also had, I believe, this weekend close to 50 search and rescue personnel, not only from San
Bernardino County but from the Los Angeles County Sheriff`s Department, they brought in their SAR people and they`ve had helicopters flying the
region for the last several days in any kind of an effort to pick her up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Lisa Lockwood, investigator, I found it odd that she would go at 7:00 a.m. to Joshua Tree National Park on
a Saturday to scout out possible locations for a family outing to come. I just don`t -- maybe it`s me. But that doesn`t seem like what somebody does
at 7:00 a.m.
LOCKWOOD: It doesn`t. It doesn`t pass the sniff test at all. And mom was only aware of her going to scout out that location from the
information she received from the husband. So mom was just relaying something that`s happened. She doesn`t know.
If her daughter was in a place where she can`t find herself out of a paper bag would she be out there on her own at 7:00 a.m. doing that? My
concern is this -- a few concerns that I have -- we`re not aware what was left in the vehicle. Was she on her way home and got out of the vehicle
because the vehicle was inoperable? Did she leave things behind? Was there a cell phone in there? Was her phone in there? Did she have a
backpack? Was this going to be an adventure where she had food and things like that? Were those things in the vehicle or were they gone with her?
These are a couple of things that we`re not aware of but the direction that vehicle was facing is very important. Had she gone to Joshua Tree or she
was on her way home? We don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Erin was three months pregnant but had not told her mom yet. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEAVILIN: I don`t really know where they`re coming up with three months because the pregnancy was just confirmed on Father`s Day. I think
she was going to tell me when I got here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to stress something, Erin`s husband, a marine colonel, is not named as a suspect. We want to stress that. But I
also have to say hypothetically and statistically, one of the leading causes of non-accidental death for pregnant women is murder at the hands of
the man who impregnated her. She only 19 years old, she was newly pregnant apparently thinking of becoming stay-at-home mom.
Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, your thoughts on that?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, pregnancy can raise a lot of aggression between couples and especially if a husband, let`s say, doesn`t
feel ready to have a child. Pregnancy can signify a trap and a very expensive trap. So we don`t know if the pregnancy was something that
triggered a problem between this couple; we really do need more information but it certainly where husbands feel trapped.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to have more on the other side. Pete, stay with us because you have been to the area. I have been to Joshua Tree
National Park and the surrounding area and I have some other thoughts about other possibilities on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEAVILIN: We also talked about her running out to Joshua Tree to kind of, you know, just kind of scope out a couple of different places that we
might want to just go look at and take some pictures. She would have never gone off trail for very far. We always joked with her and have a running
joke that she could not find her way out of a brown paper bag because she has no sense of direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is the devastated mother of 19-year-old Erin Corwin, three months pregnant, missing, nobody knows where she is. Her
husband reported her missing and he is a corporal in the marines, not a colonel, a corporal in the Marines.
Pete Demetrious, briefly, I have been to that area. I know there are beautiful areas like Palm Springs but if you drive north away from Joshua
Tree, you can get to what I call "breaking bad territory". Real desolate, with almost like abandoned houses, houses with silver over the windows.
You know what I`m talking about. This is not -- this can be a dangerous area.
DEMETRIOU: It can be a dangerous area depending on who is outside the national park area. One thing one of your guests said earlier they
couldn`t understand why she would leave that early in the morning. Most people who live in areas like 29 Palms, if you`re going to do something,
you do it early on, 7:00, 6:00 in the morning. Why? It`s better to do that when the temperatures are 60 to 70 degrees, rather than 110.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that does make sense. On the other side, Wendy Murphy former prosecutor will give her opinion on what`s going on in this
tragic mystery.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is 19-year-old Erin Corwin? Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy -- weigh in.
MURPHY: Well, look, for Scott Peterson we know it was being tied down to a baby he didn`t want. For famed brutal murderer of his pregnant
Jeffrey McDonald who was in the military, he didn`t want another mouth to feed. For some people it`s the insurance, you know, there`s news out there
about this issue all the time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let me say this. I have to say this. We have no idea what happened. We don`t have enough information, for all we know she
is out there, somewhere. I pray she is found alive.
Nancy next.
END
