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American Woman Disappears in Aruba; Too Young to Model; Interview With Medium James Van Praagh
Aired August 11, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, in a case echoing the unsolved 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway, American, Robyn Gardner disappears in Aruba. Now, just nine days later, Aruban authorities have reportedly called off the search. We`ll find out why.
Then a new poll finds Casey Anthony is the most hated person in America. Somewhere, Arnold Schwarzenegger breathes a sigh of relief.
Plus renowned medium, James Van Praagh takes a visit to the other side with some viewers.
That and more starting right now.
E.D. HILL, HLN GUEST HOST: Hi, everyone. I`m E.D. Hill sitting in for Joy who is on vacation right now.
It has been nine days since Maryland resident, Robyn Gardner, went missing while vacationing in Aruba and the FBI is now getting involved and Aruban authorities have detained her traveling companion, Gary Giordano. He claims that she drowned while snorkeling off the south eastern tip of the island.
Joining us now is Robyn`s boyfriend, Richard Forester. Richard thank you for being with us. I have to imagine, it`s been pretty tough for you.
RICHARD FORESTER, ROBYN GARDNER`S BOYFRIEND: Absolutely has been.
HILL: Let me ask you some things that just kind of seem strange to me. She didn`t tell you she was going to Aruba? She apparently told you she was going with her family to Florida first?
FORESTER: That is correct.
HILL: Were you having trouble? Any reason she would lie to you?
FORESTER: No. Nothing other than the typical problems. I don`t know why. I`ve kind of not been worried too much about that.
HILL: Yes.
FORESTER: I mean I was originally upset about that, sure. But most importantly, you know, is her safe return and at that point, she and I can deal with those issues together.
HILL: Well, this guy that she was with there, Gary Giordano says that they went out snorkeling and she didn`t come back.
FORESTER: Yes. And I don`t believe for a second that she went snorkeling. That`s not her.
HILL: Why not?
FORESTER: Because honestly, to be perfectly frank, her hair would get messed up. Her makeup would get messed up. It`s 6:00 at night. She`s in Aruba. She`s had a couple of cocktails. She`s not going to stop and go swimming at 6:00 at night. She`s going to be getting ready to go out and have dinner and have drinks and go out for the night. She`s not going swimming. And that story to me, with 100 percent certainty I do not believe.
HILL: So let me ask you a bit more about her. Apparently she met Gary Giordano, who is now being detained on the island. He had stayed there and then was leaving and they said no, no,, no, you`re staying longer. Did you know about him or how she met him?
FORESTER: I was under the impression he was a friend. But I don`t know how she met him. I was under the impression that he was a homosexual friend.
HILL: And did you know that he was supposed to be on what she had initially said was this family vacation?
FORESTER: No, of course not.
HILL: Did it surprise you? How did you find out what was happening there?
FORESTER: I found out when I contacted a family member after she had not come home the night she was supposed to. And I hadn`t been able to get ahold of her for a couple of days.
HILL: Tell me about that. She apparently had texted you or contacted you in some way. What was that? What happened?
FORESTER: At about 2:00 in the morning on Tuesday, the 2nd of August, she wrote on my Facebook wall, "This sucks!"
HILL: What was she referring to?
FORESTER: I don`t know. I don`t know. I answered with a question mark and "inbox me". I never heard from her after that and then throughout the day, I e-mailed her. I tried to get her through Facebook. She finally around 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon replied through Facebook saying, "got your messages. I`m sorry. We`ll talk about this and sort it all out when we get home," something to that effect.
HILL: And I understand that you said that you saw there was some online activity after she had been reported missing.
FORESTER: Yes. I did. She has a G-mail account and when there`s a G-chat feature on there and when you`re on the account active there`s a green indicator light. When you go idle there`s an orange indicator light. And when it goes off it`s gray. And throughout the day on Wednesday and Thursday, that was the case. It was green, orange, gray. So I tried to instant message her and say, you know, "Hello. I can see you`re online, why aren`t you answering me. What`s up? What`s going on?"
HILL: Any idea what you think happened to her?
FORESTER: I mean I fear the worst but hope for the best. I hope that she`s fine somewhere and trying to get back. They have her computer. They have her phone. I imagine they have her wallet and purse. But, of course, after hearing the stories I`ve heard about Gary Giordano I certainly do fear the worst.
HILL: All right. Richard Forester thank you for being with us.
FORESTER: Thank you for having me.
HILL: Joining me now to talk about the latest developments in this case are Casey Jordan, criminologist, attorney and contributor for "In Session" on TruTV; and Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney.
Casey, let me start with you.
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Sure.
HILL: The guy she`s there with --
JORDAN: Right.
HILL: -- claims that she disappeared while they were out snorkeling at 6:00 p.m.
JORDAN: Right.
HILL: Anything strike you as strange?
JORDAN: Well, the most important thing is that everyone agrees. Both her current boyfriend back in Maryland and her family say that she was not the snorkeling type. She wasn`t even the "go in the ocean" type. Her boyfriend calls her the "margarita by the pool" type; that she was all concerned about hair and makeup would not want to get wet.
But mostly, if you go in from shore, remember it wasn`t a boating trip snorkeling. You go in from shore to snorkel. You`re not going to go out hundreds of feet. Apparently he said they went out there and he was worried about the currents and he tapped her on the leg and they swam back to shore. He turned around, she wasn`t there.
Don`t you think he would be looking for her right next to him as they went back to shore if he`s concerned about the current?
HILL: Yes. Also, you know, if you`re out there for prime snorkeling it doesn`t really seem that normally 6:00 at night is the time to do it.
JORDAN: Exactly. But Michael, there are a lot of things. I guess, if you`re the police right now wouldn`t you be looking at, did they rent the snorkel equipment? Did they use the car? Does it show the mileage? What do you think that they`re looking at exactly right now to try to piece together what happened?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think anybody drowned a lady in this little beach area which I`m told is very calm. What probably happened, if this man was involved, the police should have to look at the car very carefully. Like remember in the Casey Anthony case, there could be hairs, there could be forensic items in the car. That`s what they should be looking at very closely.
And the FBI should definitely come into this case and if you want to know why, ask --
HILL: Well, when you look at this, it seems that the FBI apparently wasn`t there right at the beginning. But we all know what had happened in the past in Aruba and there has been a lot of critique of that.
So when they come into this, Casey, they take look at this guy. Whether -- you know, got to couch it -- whether he`s involved or not, he was there.
JORDAN: Right. That`s true.
HILL: And there apparently is a history of violence.
JORDAN: Yes.
HILL: How significant is that?
JORDAN: Well, from a criminological standpoint extremely significant. Again, it`s not just allegations, it`s a matter of court record.
HILL: It`s kind of weird stuff, too.
JORDAN: It is weird stuff. We have two former girlfriends and an ex- wife who say that he did basically harassment and stalking. One ex- girlfriend said he showed up outside her bedroom window wearing a deer mask and lighting up his face underneath with a lighter to try to scare her.
But the more concerning allegations are from the woman who said that he was constantly harassing her. He videotaped them having sex and then when she filed an order for protection against him, he had actually taken stills from that videotape and put it in all of her neighbor`s mailboxes, to embarrass and humiliate her.
HILL: Ok. And Casey was thinking, never videotape anything like that.
JORDAN: Right.
HILL: Michael, she says -- and I guess she told her parents and friends that have this guy Giordano was just a friend. However, she met him on an online dating site when she`s supposedly dating somebody else seriously. Is that something that if you`re investigating this, you look at and think, ok, one could be jealous of the other and we don`t know which way that could go?
GRIFFITH: You`re right about that. Let me tell you why this Richard Forester is doing himself a disservice. He`s been on every television show. This man may be a potential witness if there`s a trial. He`s coming off at a jilted lover and he`s coming off as a guy who wants to get Giordano.
If I were him I would really keep my mouth shut and not do any more television shows because he`s not going to come off as an unbiased witness if this case ever goes to trial. A defense lawyer could cut this guy to pieces.
HILL: But he has brought up some interesting things, Casey. He said that there appeared to be activity on her G-mail site --
JORDAN: Right.
HILL: -- after she was reportedly missing.
JORDAN: Yes. That`s important because he says that down in the corner of the screen, people who are on G-mail chat it shows whether they`re active or latent and he says there was G-mail activity.
HILL: They can track that sort of thing, right?
JORDAN: That`s why the Aruban police are trying to involve the FBI. They`ve entered into a treaty and to my way of knowing, they have already confiscated that rental car but more importantly, taken her iPad and her Blackberry, her phone, her computer, and turned it over to U.S. authorities for forensic diagnostics. And that is what we are really waiting to hear about.
HILL: And the question is, how long can they keep this guy? Are you able too -- I understand he was on his way to the airport after her mom arrived but then the authorities said, no, no, no. You`re not going anywhere. How long can they keep him?
GRIFFIN: Well, down in Aruba, I think they can only keep him for eight days. But I want you to know something very important. The U.S. has jurisdiction over this case under the passive personality principle of international law where the U.S. can prosecute people who attack American citizens or commit crimes against them overseas.
Like in the Maersk Alabama case. We just convicted that Somalian guy and he`s doing 33 years in jail. Like the Kenya bombing case. We convicted these people.
The -- right now the FBI should be cooperating very closely with the Aruban police because if they -- if they don`t bring any charges against him down there as they did not in the Joran Van Der Sloot case we can bring charges --
(CROSSTALK)
JORDAN: Yes.
GRIFFITH: -- against a person in the United States if they`re culpable in a crime.
HILL: You know, you bring a very good point --
GRIFFITH: Or an American citizen.
HILL: -- and Casey, this is the same town where Natalee Holloway disappeared.
JORDAN: Right. And I only think that that`s relevant. I mean, its apples and oranges, the two cases are 100 percent unrelated except that all eyes have been on the Aruban police. They don`t have a good reputation. People in America think that they`re a whole bunch of keystone cops.
HILL: Yes.
JORDAN: So maybe that will produce a really good investigation this time.
HILL: Well, let`s hope. We all want to know what`s happened to her. Thank you very much.
JORDAN: Sure. It`s nice to be here.
HILL: Casey Jordan, Michael Griffith, thank you.
Coming up next, a "French Vogue" spread featuring a 10-year-old girl, a little girl sparking controversy over the sexualization of our kids; and you will not believe the photos we`re going to showing you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: There`s growing outrage over racy photos of a 10-year-old fashion model, 10 years old. Here are just two of the photos that appeared in French "Vogue." Now, first this 10-year-old girl lying on top of a tiger skin rug, looking provocatively into the camera. And the second one, she is dressed up and she looks like this sexy kind of weird, tiny woman.
The girl`s mother defends the photos. Others, they call them sad, kind of repulsive. Here to discuss them: Nicole Clark, a former international model for Elite and director of the documentary called "Cover Girl Culture" and Jenna Sauers, a former model and contributor for Jezebel.com.
Thanks both -- both for joining us.
JENNA SAUERS, CONTRIBUTOR, JEZEBEL.COM: Oh you`re welcome.
HILL: So Nicole, what do you think of these pictures?
NICOLE CLARK, DIRECTOR, "COVER GIRL CULTURE": I think they`re extremely inappropriate and a sign of the times and how -- how far away we`ve gone away from what`s real and acknowledging the fact that this is a child. She`s a little girl and it`s not appropriate. It -- it`s pedophile -- imagery for pedophiles.
HILL: Jenna, do you agree?
SAUERS: I have reservations about some of the girl`s work. She certainly seems to work rather a lot for a girl of 10. The French "Vogue" spread in particular isn`t necessarily -- those aren`t the most troubling photos of her that I`ve seen. There are some other ones that are a little bit less cartoonish but at the same time extremely sexualized that I find much more disturbing, to be honest.
HILL: Yes Nicole, you mentioned she`s this little girl. We have -- we have all sorts of regulations about child labor laws and things like that. Do kids need to be protected?
And I look at this and I`m not a person for a government coming in and saying, do this. You don`t want to wear a helmet on your motorcycle, you`re stupid. You know, so be it. You don`t want to wear a seatbelt? Again, stupid, go ahead.
But this is a little kid. People as you said are making this choice for her, adults. And if they don`t have the common sense, should someone else be able to step in and say, no, this is going over the line?
CLARK: Ideally, yes, that would -- would be the way to go but obviously we can`t hold the hands of the people in the media. And James -- or sorry, Jenna has brought up a great point. Is that we`ve -- we`ve become desensitized so much now that we`re comparing which image is less intense and which one is less inappropriate?
HILL: Yes.
CLARK: It`s a picture of a child and we can`t desensitize ourselves and become numb to the fact that she is looking sexy. And you have to ask yourself, do you enjoy looking at the pictures of this girl? In your heart, do you enjoy looking at them?
HILL: And it`s not just -- I mean we`re not just prudes sitting here going, "Oh, that`s disturbing." One of the guys here, not even a dad says, "I`m looking at that and it`s uncomfortable to look at." It is, because it just feels perverted, doesn`t it?
SAUERS: Yes.
CLARK: Yes.
SAUERS: Well, I`m -- I think that people -- it`s -- no, we`re not reading into these photos. These are photos that were -- that were chosen by a professional who do this for a living.
HILL: But I don`t get that. Ok put up --
SAUERS: It`s not by accident that they ended up in "French Vogue".
HILL: But what do they do, put up just one of those photos. Because tell me, if I`m looking at -- and I assume that this is to sell clothing. If I`m looking at that, I`m not going, yes, I want to look like a little- bitty girl in that weird dress. I`m not buying that dress.
So -- or this one. Look at that. There`s no way I`m going to buy that dress by looking at that little girl in it so why -- what are they gaining from this other than exploiting a child?
SAUERS: I think that --
(CROSSTALK)
CLARK: It`s shock and awe.
SAUERS: I think that --
HILL: Jenna.
SAUERS: -- personally, as I said before, I am disturbed by some of the images but those -- that particular spread, I think that it may be getting at -- it may be trying to explore the relationship the fashion industry has with extremely young girls which by its very nature is extremely problematic.
HILL: Yes.
SAUERS: I think that they`re trying -- and you could argue that this is an inappropriate venue to ask such a criticism because "French Vogue" traffics in these exact same kinds of images --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Right.
SAUERS: -- with slightly older models, I`m talking 13 and 14 year olds. You can argue that it`s an inappropriate venue but I think they are trying to make the point that -- that it`s inappropriate to see a child.
HILL: They put it up because it`s inappropriate? We don`t want to make the point if it`s appropriate.
SAUERS: Well and because they`re being controversial and they want to sell magazines, of course.
HILL: And well, Nicole --
CLARK: I think you`re right. It is sensationalism in order to sell and it`s at the cost of our perceptions of young girls and the perceptions of the objectification of women and -- and young children and --
HILL: Yes, look at that.
CLARK: And just -- it`s just so wrong. If this happened 10 or 20 years ago -- it wouldn`t have happened 10, 20 years ago. So are we going to look back in 10 years from now and say, remember, those pictures aren`t so bad as now.
HILL: Yes, pull up the Brook Shields photo, doesn`t this brings back memories.
CLARK: But she was 15.
HILL: She was 15.
CLARK: We had one image of her whereas today, we`re inundated.
HILL: There it is. That was the photo that really I think sort of changed it all. That came out.
And now we look at it and we go, "Wow, she`s got a lot of clothing on.
This probably isn`t anything that`s going away but it definitely is -- it`s just -- it has a high yuck factor.
Stay right there. We will have more on this after a very quick break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a new poll says the most hated person in America is none other than Casey Anthony. We`ll look at why America chose Casey as public enemy number one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: I`m back with my guest talking about how young is too young in the modeling business? And we were talking about these two photos in particular that just came out in "French Vogue".
And Nicole, I want to ask you, when did you start modeling? How old were you?
CLARK: I was 18 turning 19 when I began. And things like this didn`t happen at all. I wasn`t surrounded -- I was with elite around the globe.
HILL: And Jenny you started younger didn`t you?
SAUERS: Yes. I modeled as a child and I modeled beginning in my early teens. I think I was 13 when I started modeling grown-up clothing.
HILL: Did they ever stick you in stuff like this?
SAUERS: No.
HILL: Would your parents have let you if they had tried to?
SAUERS: That`s a good question. I don`t think so.
There were times when I was a teenager that I was -- that ended up modeling some things which were certainly nothing like those photos but a few sheer blouses were involved and things like that, which at the time, I felt like I was comfortable with. But looking back on it I don`t think it`s a good idea to ask -- I was 15 at the time. I don`t think it was appropriate for those professionals to ask me to make that choice.
HILL: Yes, Nicole you did a documentary on this. Does this seem to be more of, as you said, a kid isn`t looking at things sometimes from the adult perspective. But adults are. Did you ever run into parents who were sort of pushing their daughters because they were living, perhaps, vicariously through them? Oh, yes, go ahead, do this. Or really pushing when they didn`t want to do something or didn`t feel comfortable?
CLARK: No. When I was doing "Cover Girl Culture", my documentary, I interviewed a lot of children and I actually hadn`t considered using the sexualization issue in my film until I interviewed children and I heard this dialogue of sexiness and pretty and wanting this sexual attention.
Children don`t comprehend; they don`t have the cognitive facilities to understand what that means. Not even until they`re in their teens. And I didn`t run into parents who wanted their children to do this.
I ran into parents who asked for help. What do we do? Like, what sort of resources are out there to help us combat this barrage of this mind erosion that`s going on with our children. And all I can tell them is that media literacy, reach out; there`s resources like the Girl Scouts, the Spark Summit, Parents` Television Council. There are a lot of resources to help with this.
HILL: I just say, stop buying this stuff. I`m not sure if that does it but we`re looking at that one thing and it looks like there`s an orgy going on.
I feel uncomfortable looking at them. I can`t imagine looking at a -- you know, having my daughter -- I`ve got an older daughter and a younger daughter. I can`t imagine them looking at this stuff. Jenna doesn`t it kind of tell you, this is what you`re supposed to look like?
SAUERS: Oh, I think it sends a terrible message. I mean you hit on a really good point just before. My problem is that this little girl at the age of 10, 9 when the "French Vogue" spread was shot, isn`t capable of understanding the ramifications of how she`s being presented.
HILL: No idea.
SAUERS: She doesn`t understand that when a professional hairdresser musses your hair in a certain, and when the photographer tells you, ok, look over your shoulder. Ok, drop your chin. Open your mouth, just a little, ok perfect. She doesn`t understand that to those adults --
HILL: You`re sounding really creepy right now.
SAUERS: And that`s what I`m saying.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: That that was what`s going through.
SAUERS: She doesn`t understand that she`s surrounded by professionals that do this for a living who are presenting her on purpose in a sexy way and that sends the message that your sexuality is not something as a woman that you control. It`s a set of choices made for you by adults.
HILL: Jenna, Nicole, thank you very much.
Coming up next, a new poll says Casey Anthony is the most hated person in America. But we`ll tell you who else made that list.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Casey Anthony`s failure to protect Caylee resulted in her untimely death, and that is according to a three-year investigation done by the Department of Children and Families. It was released today. Meanwhile a new poll out shows that Casey Anthony is the most hated person in America. Here now, with the latest on the Casey case is Michael Christian, field producer for "In Session" on Trutv.
Michael, thanks for being with us. What`s in this report?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, IN SESSION ON TRUTV FIELD PRODUCER: It`s a 12-page report, E.D. It was released as you say this morning. And it basically finds three, what they call, maltreatments that they say Casey Anthony was responsible for and that contributed to the death of little Caylee.
The first one is that, indeed, Caylee died, that that`s verified. Also, they say there was a failure to protect. That basically, Casey Anthony lied when she talked about how she had left this child with a nanny and they said that that was a failure to protect because had the child actually been with a nanny -- Casey didn`t know enough about that nanny, couldn`t get ahold of her, that the child was missing because she was with this fictitious nanny.
They also said that there was a verified, threatened harm, and that says that Casey basically was responsible because during this 31 days that she claimed Caylee was missing and she feared that Caylee was kidnapping or at least she said so at the time, she didn`t report that to law enforcement. So those three maltreatments as they say contributed to the death of Caylee Marie Anthony, according to this report.
HILL: You know, maybe I`m just not that smart, but why does it matter now? They spent three years investigating this. It comes out after the trial? What was the purpose?
CHRISTIAN: That`s right. It really doesn`t matter. It`s more or less a professional courtesy. Apparently the law in Florida requires this department to issue reports like this whenever there`s been a death of a child. It`s simply for the record.
HILL: Even if it had come out before the trial, could it have been used? Would it have made any difference?
CHRISTIAN: You know, it really wouldn`t have, E.D., because she wasn`t charged with any of these particular charges. She was charged with murder, but she was not charged with neglecting her child.
HILL: Perhaps if someone had noticed that there was something going on beforehand, the little girl wouldn`t be dead right now.
Let`s talk about this poll. It found that Casey is the most hated person in America. So what do you think? When you look at her right there, you see her, she`s crying on TV. She got out free, though. She got out free. So does she win? Does she lose?
CHRISTIAN: Well, I guess you could look at it either way. I think you have to say she lost if she`s the most hated person in America. Apparently she got 94 percent, which was way more than anybody else got. She beat people like Spencer Pratt, who is on MTV. He is the second most hated person. She beat the Octomom. She beat O.J. Simpson. She beat John Gosselin. She beat Levi Johnston, Bristol Palin`s ex-fiance. She beat Jesse James, Sandra Bullock`s ex-husband. She beat Paris Hilton. She beat Heidi Fleiss. She beat Howard Stern. She also won -- or lost, if you want to put it that way -- she`s the second creepiest person in America, according to this poll. The winner of that, the creepiest person is Marilyn Manson.
HILL: Well, you can look at her and you never know when she`s telling the truth or when she`s not or what she thinks is the truth. That is kind of creepy.
What about this probation fight? Why is it taking so long to decide whether Casey should have to come back to Orlando?
CHRISTIAN: You know, the problem here is there is really no precedent for this. There`s no case law that either side or Judge Belvin Perry who is going to have to make the decision, could find that was really on point with this.
When they had their hearing last Friday, they talked about this, and Judge Perry said this was a mess. He called it a maze. He called it a morass. He said everything that could have gone wrong with this issue did go wrong.
So basically, he was going to have to look at case law outside the state of Florida, and that takes some time. I can guarantee you his law clerk has been busy since that Friday morning hearing. No decision yet. They had told us it would not come down before Wednesday, which was yesterday. It could be today. It could be later today. It could be tomorrow morning. It could be tomorrow afternoon. We just don`t know. We`re just sitting here waiting.
HILL: One of the sad things in a case like this is that we spend so much time looking at her and trying to figure her out, her motives, her reasoning, her rationale. You know, whatever. And sometimes you forget that there`s this little girl -- or was this little girl -- and she`s dead. And it would have been her sixth birthday Tuesday. How is that remembered?
CHRISTIAN: There was a memorial walk last night. People went to the site where Caylee`s remains were found, and it was a surprise in a way, E.D., because her grandparents went, George and Cindy Anthony.
Now, that was maybe a bit of a risk for them. There are some people who are not happy with Casey`s parents, who think they were involved in this somehow. And if you remember back three years ago, when this all first happened, there were people who were showing up at the Anthony house who were protesting, who were screaming at George and Cindy. George and Cindy turned the hose on some of them. So I think for them to go out in public was a bit of a gamble. I think it paid off. I think they were very well received by the people at this memorial.
And you got to remember, they are victims, too. They lost a granddaughter that they loved very much, and the focus last night, as you say, her sixth birthday, was to once again, remember Caylee Anthony.
HILL: Michael, thank you very much.
CHRISTIAN: Sure.
HILL: Most of us have suffered the loss of a loved one and a lot of us would just love the chance to talk with them just one more time. My next guest says that he can actually help folks do it. He says he can talk to the dead. His name is James Van Praagh and he`s the author of "Growing Up in Heaven: The Eternal Connection Between Parent and Child." And it`s probably fortuitous to talk to you right now because we were just mentioning Casey Anthony and Caylee.
Do you think there is a connection between a parent and a child? If there is, I worry about what theirs is?
JAMES VAN PRAAGH, AUTHOR, "GROWING UP IN HEAVEN": Yes, I do believe there`s definitely a connection between them. And on a soul level, it`s very, very different. I mean, on a physical level we can see it, but on a soul level, and I do believe in past lives, I do believe in reincarnation. I do believe that in another lifetime, maybe something happened, maybe this soul chose this situation because -- to teach the mother something. So we really don`t know really until we get to the spiritual dimension.
HILL: I`m sure that there are a lot of folks watching thinking you`re nuts.
VAN PRAAGH: My whole life they thought that.
HILL: Well, that`s my question. How did you know? At what point in your life did you know, I`m not crazy because I think I can talk to dead people, I actually can?
VAN PRAAGH: Yes. I think -- first of all, what anyone thinks of you is none of your business. That`s why -- I live by that, and everybody should, they will be a lot happier people.
As a little boy, I used to see spirits around people, I used to see auras. The movie "The Sixth Sense," that was my childhood.
HILL: Did you question yourself, though?
VAN PRAAGH: No, because as a child, you look around the world around you, you really measure things by what you`re observing, what you`re seeing, what you`re experiencing as a child, you don`t know any better.
HILL: Were you scared?
VAN PRAAGH: Not at all. My visions were very, very loving, actually I would say loving, compassionate ones. Nothing scary, nothing like horror shows. Nothing like that at all.
HILL: So what happens? When you`re talking to somebody or they are coming in and saying, I want to connect with somebody, can you make that just happen?
VAN PRAAGH: It if it`s there, it`s there. If it`s not, it`s not. I can try to -- it`s like a radio. You turn on the radio and you tune to the signal, the station, if you will. And if they are a good communicator, I will be able to hear them, feel them and see them, and a combination of that. And I never know who`s going to communicate, what they`re going to say. I`m a survival evidence medium, which means my job is to bring through evidential details only onto the family member and the spirit.
HILL: Do people feel better after they do that or worse?
VAN PRAAGH: Yes, I do shows all over the country, the world, and people have said to me, you know, a half an hour with you is like years of therapy. And it really gets right to the core of matter, that they realize there`s no such thing as death, death is an illusion. It`s an illusion. It`s energy. We can`t kill energy. It just changes form.
HILL: Well, we wanted to let some of our viewers connect with you and so we`ve got some callers.
Heather joins us from Kansas. Heather, what do you want to ask?
CALLER: I would like to know if you have anything from my sister?
VAN PRAAGH: Your sister. OK. OK. What`s her name, please?
CALLER: Nicole.
VAN PRAAGH: Nicole? OK. I do feel -- let me just -- there`s a man here with her also, by the way. So the man that came to get her when she passed over. I have to tell you that. So I don`t know if there is a grandfather of hers? But he definitely comes to get her.
I want to say something about hearts with you. Did you do something with regarding Nicole with hearts? Like is there a frame with a heart, a picture of hers, something with a heart?
CALLER: You know, we`ve had a lot of them at her funeral so there might be.
VAN PRAAGH: OK, because I`m getting something with hearts, and I feel like -- she said she`s with you a lot, and I got to just tell you, you must smell flowers or roses around the house every once in a while?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: Because she`s giving me a thought here that she`s with you with the flowers and you smell them, and they can do that. They can do that. They can come through and project a scent to us, an image to us. I also want to say a bracelet you might have of hers? Is there a bracelet or a necklace you have?
CALLER: Oh my gosh, this might be somebody different.
VAN PRAAGH: Who is that, with a bracelet? You were just looking at it recently.
CALLER: Great grandma Rose?
HILL: Great grandma Rose?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: Oh, that`s the -- Rose. Were you just looking at that bracelet, going to fix it or something?
CALLER: I just -- actually I got a lot of her stuff, there`s a rosary that is hanging by my bed that`s hers.
VAN PRAAGH: OK. So you must have just done that or put that up there or something.
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: OK. So she`s with you, and if I look at that rosary and the bed, there`s something to do with flowers. I know you said Rose, but there`s also something to do with flowers. I`m not sure, the bed spread with flowers, but there`s something with flowers there. Would that be right?
CALLER: Uh-huh.
VAN PRAAGH: OK, because that`s what I`m being told. So there`s a man there with her, it must be her husband, and he has a problem with his walking before he passes over, and it looks like one leg is shorter than the other.
CALLER: Oh, my gosh. Yes, I know who you`re talking about.
VAN PRAAGH: You understand? So she`s with them and they`re communicating stronger. Maybe because she just passed recently or a couple of years probably she`s only been there. That`s what I feel. And that`s one, there you go.
HILL: Heather, I hope that helped you.
VAN PRAAGH: Hope it validates you.
CALLER: Thank you.
HILL: James, do you ever get goosebumps because you just gave them to me.
VAN PRAAGH: I do. All the time. All the time I do. Because it`s new (ph) for me.
HILL: We`re going to take a break. And we`re going to let more people talk to you, more viewers. We`ll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Welcome back. I`m with medium James Van Praagh who says that he can talk to the dead, and if you were just watching the previous segment, you`re probably still sort of sitting there like me, going, how does he do that? He`s the author of "Growing Up in Heaven."
Do people contact you? I mean, living people always contact you and initiate the contact, or does it sometimes go the opposite way?
VAN PRAAGH: Very good question. I don`t do private readings. I do really -- I teach, I go around the country teaching and also doing lectures and so forth. I`ll be at Westbury tomorrow doing that. And it`s really me, I`ve become the instrument. A spirit comes through me. I never know who`s going to come through for the audience member. I never know what`s going to happen, so it`s like a crap shoot, really.
HILL: We`ve got you here so let`s let our viewers talk to you.
VAN PRAAGH: OK, good.
HILL: Another call. Cindy is joining us from Kentucky. Cindy, what do you want to say?
CALLER: Hi, James, this is Cindy. And I was hoping to connect to--
VAN PRAAGH: Your son?
CALLER: Yes, my 20-year-old son, Richard.
VAN PRAAGH: And let me ask you something, did you have a cap of his, a baseball cap?
CALLER: Yes, we do.
VAN PRAAGH: And I know that you put it on display somewhere? In a --
(CROSSTALK)
CALLER: Yes, we did.
VAN PRAAGH: And I want to say hi to dad, and I want to watch some sugar problems -- blood sugar problems there with father, you understand about that?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: Because like the diabetes, the blood sugar. Yes? So he has to have that looked at. I feel your son is (inaudible) Rich, yes, Richard, Rich, you said?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: I feel a very, very quick passing. I feel -- he hit his head, whatever it was. Definitely hit the head. I feel like I`m thrown. I do feel like he didn`t know what hit him. OK, I got to say that to you. I know there were some friends, there were either two memorial services for him. Did you know about that?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: Because the friends have one, he has one. And did you take flowers and put them by the -- by the curb or outside the house?
CALLER: That is correct.
VAN PRAAGH: OK. Because I want you to know, he loves that, he loves that. He loves the poem that you read, a special poem. And you also either went to his iPod or picked out some songs to play at the service. Does that make sense?
CALLER: Yes, it does.
VAN PRAAGH: He wants me to thank you for doing that.
CALLER: Oh my God.
VAN PRAAGH: He was really moved by that. And he wants me to tell you, there was also a flag at one of the memorial services?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: You understand that? And I know that you have his jacket, because he says my mom has my jacket, and they`re holding my jacket. You must have just done that?
CALLER: I did.
VAN PRAAGH: Because he just wants to validate that.
HILL: Cindy, it`s E.D. Hill. I`m sitting here and I`m sort of blown away by all the things that James is able to tell you. Does it give you comfort?
CALLER: It`s amazing. I mean, he hit -- I mean, bullseye. Bullseye hit. Everything he just said. I cannot really -- because I can be a skeptic and because, you know, being a Christian and they kind of deter you from going this route. But let me tell you --
VAN PRAAGH: It`s God`s work.
CALLER: Let me tell you, Richard would have to have seen that, I mean, to tell you that.
VAN PRAAGH: Yes.
HILL: Cindy, I want to let the rest of the folks watching know that you had no idea who you were going to talk to.
VAN PRAAGH: At all.
CALLER: I`m telling you, I just saw that James was going to be on your show today on Facebook. And it was just by fluke that I sent the e- mail. Couldn`t believe I got the call. But his FFA jacket is in a display case, like you put memorial flags. Now, there`s no way anyone on earth except a close family member even knows that.
HILL: FFA jacket, he must have been a great kid.
CALLER: He was.
VAN PRAAGH: He still is. Still is.
HILL: I`m glad he was able to help you. I want to let another viewer talk to James as well.
Jennifer is joining us from Connecticut. Jennifer, what would you like to ask?
CALLER: Hi there.
VAN PRAAGH: Hi, Jennifer.
CALLER: I would just like to speak to either my sister or my father.
VAN PRAAGH: OK, all right, before I begin, was there someone that died of cancer?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: Was that your sister?
CALLER: No.
VAN PRAAGH: That was your dad?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: OK. I have a cancer condition here. And I want to say a cancer condition, I`m feeling when they merge with me of being wasted away, and I got to tell you, I feel wasted away. All right? I need to ask if he was ever in the military when he was younger.
CALLER: Kind of.
VAN PRAAGH: Wasn`t there something to do with his military at either the service that you had for him, or someone found something to do with a picture of him something to do with the service or the military?
CALLER: Not that I know of.
VAN PRAAGH: You don`t know about that? Well, I just got that feeling very, very strong. I got to tell you that. I feel that this man, he was either in a coma before he passes over, because I do feel him out of it. I don`t know if he was in a hospice or someone was brought in.
Do you understand that?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: And I know someone who was definitely there -- he wasn`t himself for, like, I`d say a month before he passes. I feel like I`m out of it, I`m totally out of it, I`m not in the body. I`m out and in the body and I am unconscious of a lot of things. I don`t know why, but I feel like he`s showing me coins in his pocket, and I`m standing there shaking the pocket with coins. So I don`t know if he used to do that. I`m also shown a porch on a house and I`m sitting on that porch. Do you have the memory of the porch?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: Thanks, because he wants to give you that memory to give you, to relive that memory, as you know it`s him. That would be significant. Does that make sense?
CALLER: Yes.
VAN PRAAGH: OK. And I know that was a breast concern, by the way, with the sister?
CALLER: No.
VAN PRAAGH: All right. Who has breast cancer?
CALLER: My grandmother did.
VAN PRAAGH: Your grandma did. OK, because someone that died with breast cancer, I get that very, very strong, and I want you to know she`s fine as well, and she likes planting flowers. Flowers are a very big deal, and was with you recently in the garden. OK. You understand?
CALLER: Yes.
HILL: Jennifer, thank you for calling. And I wanted to get a couple of questions to you because I know --
VAN PRAAGH: It`s hard to do this quickly.
HILL: I know that, and a lot of our viewers I`m sure would love to talk to you.
VAN PRAAGH: I have a website and I`m on Facebook. And they can get me that way. And again, I have a show tomorrow night at the Westbury and I`m accessible to people.
HILL: So you talk -- you communicate with dead people. Are you afraid of dying?
VAN PRAAGH: Not at all. No.
HILL: Why? Why not?
VAN PRAAGH: Because I believe that`s our natural state of being is the spirit world. I think this is our school world down here. This is the hard place. This is -- we`re souls having a physical experience, not the other way around.
HILL: Does anyone who has died in your past contact you?
VAN PRAAGH: Sure. My mother comes to me sometimes, my father comes through, my cousin at times comes through. Not as easily as I can read somebody else. It`s hard for me to read my own self, which is interesting. You think it would be easy, but it isn`t, because I think it`s my own emotional desire, so it`s hard for me to discern between my own stuff and that of the spirit, to be objective if you will. And I was very skeptical too by the way when I started, very skeptical of this, but it`s something you can`t deny.
HILL: People at home, I think if you`ve lost someone, and we all have, you`re always wanting to connect in some way. Is there something that we can do ourselves to try to be more receptive?
VAN PRAAGH: Yes. Yes. Very, very much so. Stop trying so hard and stop saying, come to me, come to me, come to me. They will show up in your dreams. Say come to my dreams and they`ll come to you in your dreams. And be aware of like signs around the house. Or you`re driving the car, you think of them. They`re probably sitting next to you in a seat, probably sending you a thought. They`re always around us.
HILL: Does it give you a lot of satisfaction? Especially with our first and second caller, to know that you`ve --
(CROSSTALK)
VAN PRAAGH: It`s the greatest -- I think it`s the greatest thing that a human being can do for another human being, is to provide this information, and take away the fear of death. Because if you take away the fear, you begin to live life fully.
HILL: James, thank you very much for being with us.
VAN PRAAGH: Thank you.
HILL: Well, if you`re in New York, as James said, catch him at the Westbury theater tomorrow night, and be sure to check out vanpraagh.com. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Well, the economy may be in the tank, but that doesn`t mean you have to go down the drain with it. Joining me now is HLN Money expert, Clark Howard, whose new back, called "Clark Howard`s Living Large in Lean Times," has over 250 ways to buy and spend smarter. Welcome, Clark.
CLARK HOWARD, AUTHOR: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: OK. Let`s get right to it.
HOWARD: Sure.
BEHAR: You say that it`s better right now to buy a new car than a used car. Why do you say that?
HOWARD: It`s never happened before. Because of the financial crisis three years ago, four years ago, there`s not the supply of lease vehicles coming back into the market to be sold as three or four-year-old used cars, so right now the cost of used cars is at an all-time record high versus new. So right now in most cars it makes sense to buy new instead of used. I`ve never said that in 24 years.
BEHAR: Really?
HOWARD: This is a special case.
BEHAR: What about leasing a car? Better than buying?
HOWARD: Leasing is awful.
BEHAR: It`s a tax deduction.
HOWARD: For a business maybe, but really the only people who should ever lease a car are people who feel charitable towards the people who are going to own it next. OK? You pay all the depreciation on the car. The benefit flows to the next person, the owner who buys it after you paid to buy it, essentially with a lease.
BEHAR: You can buy it after you lease it.
HOWARD: That`s true. And many times that`s a great idea is at the end of a lease, just buy the thing.
BEHAR: Because you know the car then.
HOWARD: Exactly. It`s a used car without unknowns.
BEHAR: OK. Let`s go to groceries. Let`s look at some of the ways that people can save money when they`re buying groceries these days.
HOWARD: It`s become so much easier because there are what are called hard discounters. They`ve been popular in Europe for 50 years, have now invaded the United States. The biggest player in the business is Aldi, that`s now in about 30 states around the country.
BEHAR: What is it?
HOWARD: A-l-d-i. They offer very small supermarkets. With just generally one or two items in each category.
BEHAR: What if you don`t have an Aldi near you?
HOWARD: You have a problem. But there are competitors of Aldi that are opening up. But Aldi is just booming--
BEHAR: What if you just go to the A&P or something?
HOWARD: Much tougher with traditional supermarkets. So if you live in an area that only has traditional supermarkets --
BEHAR: Move.
HOWARD: -- you`ve got to become -- that`s good advice. But couponing is great, and couponing has been so in lately. But still only a tiny percent of people really take advantage of couponing, with this key tip. When something that`s a nonperishable is on sale, buy every last item you can stuff in any drawer, closet or pantry in your house.
BEHAR: Canned vegetables?
HOWARD: Anything that`s nonperishable. Massive quantities when they`re on sale.
BEHAR: It`s easy to say but when you don`t have money --
HOWARD: But that`s the whole idea, no, but that is the whole idea, is that if you substitute items based on what`s on sale to stretch your budget, you can really cut your food costs by more than half.
BEHAR: OK.
HOWARD: The biggest problem, though, is people who get tired of fixing food at home and eat out. You want a recipe to eat up your wallet, eat out.
BEHAR: Eat out. That`s true, that`s true. OK, we ran out of time so quickly. But you can get the book out there and you can see the Clark Howard Show Saturdays and Sundays on HLN. So get the book because everything`s in here. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
