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Joy Behar Page
Missing American Woman in Aruba; Interview With Dave Ramsey
Aired August 15, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the man who says Robyn Gardner vanished in Aruba after the two went snorkeling together is sticking to his story. Aruban Authorities aren`t buying it, but do they have enough evidence to charge him?
Then buy, sell or fold; personal finance guru, Dave Ramsey answers your questions about mortgages, cars, and the stock market roller coaster.
And Brooke Hogan celebrates her dad`s birthday by taking him to the unveiling of her artsy, nude portrait.
That and more starting right now.
E.D. HILL, HOST: Hi, everybody, I`m E.D. Hill sitting in for Joy while she is out on her honeymoon.
Tonight we start with the story of a missing American woman, Robyn Gardner. The man last seen with the 35-year-old has been barred from leaving Aruba. The court ruled that Robyn`s traveling companion, Gary Giordano, must stay in the country as authorities try to figure out exactly what happened to her.
He says Robyn was separated from him during a snorkeling trip, but his inconsistent stories have many wondering whether that`s true.
Here now with more: Richard Forester, Gardner`s boyfriend; plus John Q. Kelly, civil litigator former prosecutor. He represented the parents of Natalee Holloway.
But first, I want to go to Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV. How many days does he need to stay in Aruba now?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, the prosecutors have just announced 16 more days E.D. that they are going to hold him on this reasonable suspicion. They firmly say that he is a suspect in the disappearance of this American.
But CNN has just confirmed through Martin Savidge that actually Giordano will be taken to a prison on the other side of the island. It is the Correctional Institute of Aruba, and that is where he will stay for the next 16 days.
HILL: How did the court come to the decision?
CASAREA: We don`t know because it is not like America, Aruban courts are very secret, it is not public information. But I think we can use our common sense to say that the Aruban prosecutors reached out to the FBI. They asked for cell phone records, text records, anything they could find that could help them show not only inconsistencies with this man but probable cause that he committed a crime.
Well, the U.S. has helped the Aruban authorities through the FBI raid Friday night of his home. They have that information. They went before a judge today asking for him to be held. We thought only eight days, but it`s 16. So that is even stronger for the prosecutors.
HILL: And have we determined whether or not he is cooperating? Because we`ve heard both things.
CASAREZ: We hear that he is cooperating from his attorney. Prosecutors have said he is not cooperating. So I guess, who do you believe at this point?
The fact is prosecutors don`t have the information they want. This is an unsolved disappearance. They believe it may be criminal activity. But the challenge is, once again, like with Jordan Van Der Sloot, it has to do with water which can really be difficult.
HILL: And a body; they still don`t know where she is, what happened to her. And we were speaking with someone before who had said that in this area there have been people who have been, you know, washed away, that have been sucked into the water. But that the bodies wash up on shore. And that hasn`t happened here.
CASAREZ: You know, E.D., when I was in Aruba last fall for when a jawbone washed up and it was thought it was Natalee Holloway, I took that opportunity to really speak with the prosecutor Taco Stein and he confirmed with me that because they never found a body with Natalee Holloway, that created the immense challenge for them.
Now, in the U.S. you prosecute without a body. You can do it. But there they`re much more hesitant. But then on the other hand, that was a judge`s son and that was a situation far different than this one.
HILL: And you said that they had searched Giordano`s home Friday. Do we know whether or not they found anything or even what they were looking for?
CASAREZ: We don`t. We don`t at all. But we know that he will continue to be held on reasonable suspicion in Aruba, so they have to have something. But on the other hand, he was the last person to see her.
HILL: Yes. Jean, thank you very much.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
HILL: I want to bring in our guests right now, Richard Forester, Robyn`s boyfriend. Richard, this has to be a very tough time for you. How are you holding up?
RICHARD FORESTER, ROBYN GARDNER`S BOYFRIEND: I`m just doing the best that I can E.D.
HILL: You`re also trying to get as many tips in -- there`s a tip line that you wanted to tell folks about. What is that?
FORESTER: The tip line has been provided by the Natalee Holloway Resource Center which has been fantastic. That number is 407-237-2295. It`s an anonymous tip line. All tips go directly to the FBI from the Natalee Holloway Resource Center
If anybody has seen anything, knows anything about Robyn, the disappearance, about Gary Giordano then please, please use the number. Again, it`s 437-227-2295. And it`s crucial that that number gets out there and stays out there in the public.
HILL: And then -- and it`s up on our screen. You mentioned the Holloways and John Q. Kelly, joins us, prosecutor, civil litigator. When you look at the facts that we know so far in this case, what strikes you? What jumps out at you?
JOHN Q. KELLY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Probably the same thing that jumped out at law enforcement, the implausibility of the story. You know, the time of day, the place they were supposedly snorkeling. That, you know, this gentleman would watch his date drift away rather than try to help her or summon help immediately; and other things, too, inconsistencies in his statements. Apparently she was not the type to engage in this type of activity, this time of day, under these circumstances.
HILL: Richard, they have said that -- and I know it`s difficult for you to hear this, and I try to understand how you`re feeling -- but frankly, it`s impossible for me to put myself in your position. They say that because no one has seen her, they have, you know, grave doubts that she`s still alive. Now that you hear this information that the snorkeling shop doesn`t -- didn`t apparently rent her snorkeling equipment. Last week, you told me she`s not the snorkeling type.
FORESTER: She`s not.
HILL: What does that tell you?
FORESTER: She didn`t go snorkeling. I don`t believe she did. I mean obviously I wasn`t there. But just -- just knowing her like I do, although as I`ve said before, I don`t believe she -- she would have gone snorkeling. It just doesn`t strike me as something that she would be too interested in doing.
HILL: DNA. They said, can you give it to us, no. Get the court to order it, yes, they get it. Don`t you need to match it to something? Why would you ask for DNA?
KELLY: Well, that`s it. It`s not consistent with a snorkeling accident. But if something was evident of a crime scene in the hotel room or a car or a location or something, they`d want the DNA sample.
You know, he may not have wanted to give it because his attorney told him not to, or he`s hiding something. We just don`t know the circumstances. But it`s a whodunit now.
HILL: He also apparently has a past.
KELLY: Yes.
HILL: A troubling past.
KELLY: Yes.
HILL: And he had I guess two restraining orders filed against him citing domestic abuse and threats. He was convicted of larceny. Apparently someone was telling ABC that his old girlfriend claimed that she had been choked by him.
KELLY: Sure.
HILL: Do thing that people have done either allegedly or been convicted of in the past have any bearing then on something like this on an investigation like this?
KELLY: Of course. Certainly during the investigative part of it; it doesn`t mean that past behavior is an automatic indicator of future conduct. But you know, it begs scrutiny. If he`s had problems with women in the past, if it`s anger management, if it`s dominance, if it`s violence, you have to factor that in with all the other inconceivable and inconsistent things that have gone on. Say, you know, this on top of the other factor make us have to look at this very closely and be cautious.
HILL: As you know, through the Holloway case, the Aruban authorities looked like keystone cops last time. Do you think that they`re doing a better job this go round?
KELLY: Sure, and rightfully so. I think they were on it right away. They treated it with the gravity they should right away. I think they did the land, sea, and air search right away. They notified the FBI, and they had -- had Mr. Giordano under scrutiny from the start, too. So I think they`ve learned from their past errors in their ways. There`s been attention.
HILL: Richard, have you been able to hear or find out anything more from Robyn`s friends? This was something that you hadn`t expected she was going to be going to Aruba. You thought she was with family. Have you gotten any more information to sort of fill out the story?
FORESTER: No, no, I haven`t. And, you know, I -- I wish I knew. And you know, all I really want is for her safe return so she and I can have that discussion and figure that out. I just -- I just want them to bring her back.
HILL: So in your heart of hearts, you think she`s coming back?
FORESTER: I pray she is.
HILL: All right. Richard, thank you very much. And John, always a pleasure talking to you.
KELLY: Sure. Good to see you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Do mean girls grow up to be mean women? Well, if you watch just about any reality TV show, you`d probably say yes based on how the women go after each other. Now watch, for an example, "The Real Housewives of New Jersey."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Obviously there has to be something else. It`s just not name change and arrested. There has to be something else. Are you stripping?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was arrested --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stripping, prostitution (EXPLETIVE DELETED) 19 times? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you stupid (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So the girls that tease, the nasty ones in high school end up being women like that they flip the tables and all that? And here to discuss are Dr. Jill Murray, psychotherapist; and Jill Zarin, co-star of "The Real Housewives of New York City"; and Kate White, author of book, "The Sixes," and editor-in-chief of "Cosmopolitan". Welcome all.
So Jill, I thought you would be taking this in stride. And you`re watching that clip and started going -- ahh.
JILL ZARIN, "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK CITY": I -- I -- it`s -- it`s embarrassing. I know that`s Teresa, that`s not a proud moment for her. I mean if you ask her, that would not be a proud moment for her.
HILL: Ok, let me ask you about this because that`s sort of the premise of a lot of these shows --
(CROSSTALK)
ZARIN: It is.
HILL: Being mean to each other. So is it -- if it`s embarrassing then why do we do it?
ZARIN: You know, you`d have to ask her why she did that. The emotions get to you. It does. The emotions get to you when -- when you`re in one of those scenes.
But a lot of these things on these reality shows, they`re not staged, but -- like I wouldn`t be friends with some of the girls on my show had I not been cast on a -- on a reality show and we have to sort of travel together or be together. And what really happens between us is real but you know, mean girls -- I mean, I just wouldn`t be friends with them.
So there wouldn`t be any meanness. It`s just sort of when you`re thrown together these things happened.
HILL: So Dr. Jill, is there something about the situation you`re in where these sort of things just kind of build on -- on themselves?
DR. JILL MURRAY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, I just don`t think that there is a situation in the world where women need to be mean to other women. I think that just with any situation in any relationship, it`s not ok to say "she made me do it," "he made me do it," it`s just not acceptable. There`s other alternatives.
ZARIN: Well, I don`t know if you`re a mother or not, but my daughter`s mean to me. I mean what can I tell you? And I`ve got a teenage daughter who is mean to me all the time. What kind of -- I mean that`s the reality of life. I mean it would be nice for me to say nobody should be mean to each other but --
HILL: But moms -- moms and daughters I think we all --
KATE WHITE, AUTHOR, "THE SIXES": That`s reality.
HILL: If you`ve got a teenage daughter, you`ve got a fight with her.
WHITE: Right but --
ZARIN: So I mean, but to make a statement -- I mean, with all due respect to Dr. Jill, but to make a statement that, you know, it shouldn`t happen -- that`s life.
HILL: Kate, you understand this stuff. I mean, you just wrote a great book, "The Sixes", about mean girls.
WHITE: Yes.
HOLMES: And you`re editor-in-chief of a women`s magazine. Do you think this is a new phenomenon or is this just something that we`re focusing on now?
WHITE: When I set out to do this thriller, I just pulled an idea from the air on mean girls to make it provocative. But as I looked into it, I found that there is a prevalence with this. In fact, when I asked "Cosmo" readers in a poll do you think women have gotten meaner, 82 percent said they have.
And I think that in an age of empower. When we`ve encouraged women to have their own voices --
(CROSSTALK)
MURRAY: Yes.
WHITE: -- it`s been misinterpreted at times to mean you can screech, you can scream, you can flip a table, you can bitch- slap someone verbally. And I don`t think that`s the most effective way to get what you want.
HILL: Dr. Jill --
(CROSSTALK)
ZARIN: I agree with you. I agree with you.
HILL: Dr. Jill, just let me say -- just something that I sort of observed. I get uncomfortable watching these shows because -- I always think, you know, guys don`t -- they don`t have shows about guys going after themselves like this.
MURRAY: Yes.
HILL: I feel like there`s a bit of sexism here.
MURRAY: Well, "Jersey Shore" -- "Jersey Shore," the guys go after each other.
HILL: Yes but Dr. Jill, is there something about girls --
(CROSSTALK)
MURRAY: Yes.
HILL: -- going after each other that in a sense -- I kind of feel like we`re sort of being used.
MURRAY: I think so, too. It embarrasses me as a woman to watch other women behave this way. I -- I`m hoping that in real life, you know, Kate and Jill don`t have friends that treat them this way.
ZARIN: I know.
MURRAY: It`s horrifying.
WHITE: I really don`t.
MURRAY: Right and so I think that there is this -- this whole genre of women being mean to other women, and it being exciting to watch. I think that there is this whole media perception.
For example, ok, I`m sure Joy Behar gets questions all the time when she`s on "The View". You guys can`t really like each other, right, yes.
I mean when there`s -- these shows where lots of women are on them, there`s always these questions that, oh, I bet you guys don`t really like each other. There`s this idea that women can`t be friendly with each other; that there should always be this meanness, this threatening behavior, that we should be threatened by each other and that we can`t be friends. I think it`s horrible.
WHITE: You know with -- with men -- men don`t make it personal. They don`t attack each other`s kids and their parents.
HILL: That`s such a good point. And they don`t.
WHITE: And often -- and often when guys go at it, the end is a win- win situation. And so often with women, somebody`s got to end up feeling like a stripped car in the end.
ZARIN: Well, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", and it couldn`t be a better book to explain that. I mean, you`re right. My husband would never say or act or do things that maybe I would or have and that`s what makes us different.
We are vocal. And we say -- we are opinionated, women in general. We say what we`re thinking. And with the empowerment now which is causing -- you know, your magazine encourages women to voice what they have to say --
HILL: Is it empowering or, as my father would say, verbal diarrhea?
(CROSSTALK)
WHITE: I think empowerment run amok is what it is. Because I think at some point you have to realize it`s one thing to be heard and another thing to be heard effectively. And if you want to take charge and take control of situations and -- and have success career-wise, you don`t have to act that way. You really don`t.
ZARIN: Well, TV is sensationalism. Nobody wants to watch you getting a manicure and being polite. Let`s be honest.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: That`s true and it`s entertainment.
ZARIN: And if you want to watch shows like that, then watch "National Geographic" and "Pawn Stars."
WHITE: But Jill, do the producers encourage that sort of thing?
ZARIN: Well, I think a show to the extreme would be like "The Bad Girls Club."
HILL: Yes.
ZARIN: And that is -- I mean, even I was horrified by that -- even "Jersey Shore". I mean, there are shows that you say there`s no way anybody is going to watch this, it`s so horrible, and then, they get an 8.2 rating, and it`s the number one show and the cast is making a $1 million an episode.
HILL: So that`s right and we`re going to take a quick break. And I want to --
(CROSSTALK)
ZARIN: You bet it does, you bet it does.
HILL: -- I want to ask you what they tell you that we don`t see. What we don`t hear.
ZARIN: Behind the scenes.
HILL: Stay right there. We`ll continue in just a minute.
A.J. HAMMER, HOST, HLN`S "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Coming up tonight on "Showbiz Tonight", showbiz exclusive with Katherine Jackson. New revelations today from Michael Jackson`s mom about the star-studded tribute concert to her son, at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Welcome back. We are rejoined by the panel. Talking about girls and what better example of that than the girls on "Jersey Shore", those mean girls. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the biggest (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m here, and I`m staying whether you like it or not.
SNOOKI, JERSEY SHORE: You are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) slutty (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. I`m not --
SNOOKI: You don`t care about anyone else but yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew coming into this house that there was unfinished drama between Sammy and the girls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don`t understand how you even have friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: First off, if I`m their mother, they are getting their mouths washed out so fast, I can`t even tell you. That`s the number-one thing.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: My goodness, it just drives me -- the hair on my arms --
ZARIN: I would kill my daughter. I would pull her by her hair. I would kill my daughter. I mean she just would never would -- it would never happen.
HILL: We`re rejoined Jill Zarin and also Dr. Jill Murray is joining us. She has been talking about mean girls. And you were mentioning that you think -- we saw it in that clip -- that girls act this way.
The guys, you see them just sitting there like it`s a tennis match going back and forth. It looks like they`re just enjoying this. Kind of sick, isn`t it?
DR. JILL MURRAY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Guys are digging this. It`s like throwing a couple of girls in wet T-shirts in a mud pit and asking them to wrestle, you know. They`re loving this.
(CROSSTALK)
MURRAY: Right. But they`re also horrified by it. There`s a real difference between being assertive, which I think what Kate`s magazine is promoting for women, and being aggressive. Aggressive is -- is horrible behavior. And when we show teenage girls and girls in their 20s this kind of drama, this kind of stuff as being glamorous and being acceptable, they grow up to be mean women.
ZARIN: I want to add also there`s alcohol involved here. Has anyone noticed the trend -- whether it`s "Jersey Shore", "Bad Girls", even "The Housewives", when alcohol is involved, a lot of their behavior changes.
MURRAY: It really does.
ZARIN: More binge drinking.
HILL: Kate. Let me ask you about that. In Cosmo, what do you -- is this something that is really the norm, the new norm? Or is it something that`s always been there?
WHITE: I think unfortunately our readers watch shows like this because it`s the train wreck aspects of it. They don`t emulate it, but they watch, it drives the ratings and it creates this vicious cycle.
You know, what we encourage our readers to do is be assertive but know you judge situations and sometimes you use what Elizabeth Dole used to call sugar lips because it`s far more effective to getting the job done.
HILL: Ok. Jill -- I want to ask you, do the producers ever tell you not mean enough, be meaner?
ZARIN: Never. Absolutely not.
HILL: In the back of your mind, though, when you`re thinking the meaner I am, the nastier this gets, the higher the ratings will go, do you think --
ZARIN: No, I could say at the reunion there were certain things that I did that I knew would get effect. When I rubbed Kelly`s feet, for example, and I was simulating what Ramona had done in a scene. When I had an own moment, I knew that would get something. But it was never -- it`s never mean.
HILL: All right. Ladies, thank you so much for joining me. Appreciate it.
You can see Jill in Atlanta on October 15th as part of the "Housewives" tour. Tickets go on sale on Friday.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: How did Hulk Hogan`s daughter Brooke celebrate his 58th birthday? By taking him to the unveiling of a Miami art exhibit featuring that -- that is Brooke, his daughter, posing nude in a cage.
Here to discuss this and other pop culture stories in the news are Deborah Norville, host of "Inside Edition." Morgan Spurlock, director, producer, and writer. And Beth Littleford, comedic actress. Thanks all of you for being with us. OK, Morgan, how gross is that?
MORGAN SPURLOCK, DIRECTOR/PRODUCER: I mean, when I first heard about it, I thought she was going to be like really naked. She`s not really that naked --
HILL: Excuse me, she`s naked in a cage and taking dad to go see it.
BETH LITTLEFORD, ACTRESS: I`m getting "Hustler" magazine cover from that picture.
SPURLOCK: Well, I wanted "Hustler" magazine picture on that cover. That`s not what it is. It`s her in a cage from the side -- it`s like it`s not even--
DEBORAH NORVILLE, HOST, INSIDE EDITION: And you don`t really see anything.
SPURLOCK: There`s nothing there.
NORVILLE: If you would have seen something, you would have had ribbons over the parts that you see, so you don`t really see anything.
HILL: That`s true, but it`s the whole concept of, hey, dad, for your birthday, let`s go look at me naked in a cage.
NORVILLE: All I know is we would take daddy to the Olive Garden and everybody gave him a shirt.
LITTLEFORD: Clearly, I know why he was underwhelmed.
SPURLOCK: She could have been dancing in a cage -- let`s just say it could have been a lot of worse.
LITTLEFORD: As opposed to crawling out of the cage, just carefully covering her nipples.
SPURLOCK: Tastefully for a nonprofit.
HILL: She tweeted about it, too.
NORVILLE: Well, here`s the thing. She said that everybody who`s having these discussions ought to get a life and stop picking on her. You know what? I think they love that we have these conversations. I think Hulk Hogan loves it, I think Brooke Hogan loves it. The fact that they`re twittering about it, the fact that we`re talking about it --
(CROSSTALK)
LITTLEFORD: They should stop doing it. There have been several inappropriate instances. He`s sort of flashing her at some point when they were playing a game. He`s dating a woman who looks like her.
HILL: What`s with that?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: His new wife looks like his daughter.
NORVILLE: Old wife.
HILL: And his old wife. And his old wife is dating a 22-year-old look-alike of him 20 whatever years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did they need to get divorced?
HILL: Is there something strange here?
SPURLOCK: That`s right, why didn`t they just stay together?
HILL: He had his daughter and his wife. He didn`t need anything else.
NORVILLE: But the picture come could back, you just look at that picture and you go, this is the American family. This is --
SPURLOCK: Could have been worse. We could have seen Hulk Hogan naked. Let`s just put that out there. Just saying. You know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s not. Let`s retract that and forget it. Just bleep that out of our minds right now.
(CROSSTALK)
SPURLOCK: Never happened. Look -- happy family.
HILL: I`ve got more photos for you to take a look at. Michele Bachmann, did you -- you all, of course, saw the magazine cover where everybody was saying, oh, that was mean. Well, this is Michele Bachmann eating a corndog.
SPURLOCK: There`s a better shot than that.
NORVILLE: Can I just say something about this?
SPURLOCK: Come on, there`s a better picture than that.
NORVILLE: The people who are great fans of Michele Bachmann will think anybody talking about that being a phallic-like picture or something needs to get their head out of the gutter. The fact is, again, I think they like that we`re talking about it, and if she really were concerned about these image issues, a lady -- because we`re from the South, right, Beth?
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: That little piece of hot dog, would have dipped it in her mustard and then she would have eaten it, in a ladylike fashion.
HILL: Oh, I`m from Texas. We just jab in that mustard and take a huge old bite--
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Wait. Look at this, though. We have got a picture of Texas, my governor, Rick Perry eating a corn dog.
SPURLOCK: Yes, Perry. Let`s see it. Do it.
HILL: Pull it up.
SPURLOCK: Oh, yes.
HILL: OK, now, which one is more phallic?
SPURLOCK: Oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah, Rick. Rick Perry.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: I think Michele Bachmann`s folks cannot complain -- there`s Rick Perry.
(CROSSTALK)
LITTLEFORD: They`re irresistibly funny. You have to publish them. You have to get them out there. And of course they will stream. And they`re photo ops. These guys know they`re photo ops. They`re out in the public, so they can`t complain.
SPURLOCK: They love America, and America is a corn dog. So what`s wrong with that?
HILL: Or a fried twinkie. I`m not sure which is better.
SPURLOCK: But note to self -- if you are an official running for public office, try not to eat anything shaped like a penis in public. I`m just saying. That`s just --
HILL: Unless you want to deal with the consequences.
SPURLOCK: Unless you want to deal with it. I`m just saying. You get -- you made that bed, you should prepare to sleep in it.
NORVILLE: Clearly America`s head is in the gutter. And since that is to be -- that`s a truism, you just got to know that this is going to happen.
HILL: That`s right.
LITTLEFORD: Well, the dirty is in the eye of the beholder is what you`re saying.
HILL: Well, I look at those photos, and I`m sorry, I don`t think I have the dirtiest mind certainly on this set, but I immediately go there. It`s just natural. But yes. I think that probably taking it off the side is --
SPURLOCK: Next week, Michele Bachmann is touring the Chiquita banana factory. Can`t wait what comes out of that story.
LITTLEFORD: It`s not hurting her. She`s the front-runner.
HILL: Let`s talk about another person in the news frequently for his behavior, Alec Baldwin. And I think you`re going to have a very good time trying to analyze this. You know, first off, he`s considering running for New York City mayor. And he said that he deliberately chose to live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Now, that is a -- you always hear about the Upper East Side. Upper West Side is just as chi-chi and highfalutin. But he chose to live there because it`s a middle-class neighborhood and he likes its economic diversity. It`s either, you know, $10 million for an apartment or $20 million for an apartment? So you got a $10 million spread there.
NORVILLE: I know what building he lives in. That`s not a cheap building. That`s a $9 million, $10 million building.
HILL: I think his apartment was up for sale for like $9.5 million.
LITTLEFORD: If that`s middle class, we live in very different places. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
LITTLEFORD: He`s just -- just shows how out of touch he is. I`m a fan. I don`t like the way he talks to his daughter. Other than that, I`m a huge fan. I`m a fan of his comedy, I am a fan of his politics. Where does he think is more expensive to live than the Upper West Side of Manhattan? That`s what I`d like to know.
SPURLOCK: But just to keep it in perspective for everyone else out in TV Land, our current mayor is a billionaire, who has so much money he doesn`t even live in the mayor`s mansion, because he thought the mayor`s mansion was not quite nice enough.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Not quite nice enough for the entertaining he needed to do.
SPURLOCK: That`s right.
HILL: Which is nice if you can do it. You know?
SPURLOCK: So here`s the other thing -- so we are taking a step down into a middle-class mayor from Bloomberg to Baldwin. That`s the way you should look at it.
NORVILLE: Alec Baldwin`s not going to be running for mayor any time soon. He`s under contract to "30 Rock." The next mayoral race will be in 2013. So we are talking what, 2017?
HILL: And also--
NORVILLE: He may have--
HILL: -- he may have Kelsey Grammer running against him.
NORVILLE: Who may actually run in 2013.
HILL: But who`s lived here for nine months?
(CROSSTALK)
LITTLEFORD: He was on Broadway, that practically counts.
SPURLOCK: This is the best sitcom right there, just like the two of them running for mayor.
HILL: It`s an amazing group of people who come in there. I don`t know if you all -- I think most of you came on this show when I was over at Fox News Channel hosting "Fox and Friends." I haven`t been there for a long time --
NORVILLE: How long has it been?
HILL: Five years.
NORVILLE: OK.
HILL: However, Geraldo was talking to my old buddies on "Fox and Friends," and he said this -- watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA: You know, it`s -- what have we accomplished? These are very, very important issues, Steve, E.D. and Brian.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Geraldo? Gretchen`s been doing the show for about five years, not E.D.
RIVERA: What? What`s that about five years?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never mind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s OK. I`ll tell you when I see you next week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Slap you upside the head probably.
LITTLEFORD: You know, it`s a tribute to you. He`s still holding a torch.
SPURLOCK: That`s right.
LITTLEFORD: He can`t forget you.
HILL: They`re all great. And Gretchen is a sweetheart. You know, when you`re out there in the field and you know this of course --
NORVILLE: You can`t hear a thing. He`s at a rally. I don`t think he heard what the response was --
HILL: But also you`re focusing on the story you`re talking about --
SPURLOCK: Not to mention when you`re doing a lot of this. Also does -- also doesn`t help.
LITTLEFORD: Geraldo`s never been hindered by the facts, you know.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: Can I say, I had to play that back three times before I understood what Geraldo said. He said -- he said it so quickly, how did she know that it was your name that he said? I didn`t understand it --
LITTLEFORD: I`ve been called Beth Littlefield on air, may name is Beth Littleford. I`ve been called Beth Littlefield. It`s almost as bad as being called the wrong name in bed. It`s deeply hurtful.
NORVILLE: Hold on, my name is Deborah. How do you turn Deborah into Barbara? I can`t tell you -- and I don`t know if it`s Barbara Walters or not, and we love you, Barbara. But I don`t know, is it Barbara Walters, is it Barbra Streisand? Does Deborah and Barbara sound anything the same?
SPURLOCK: It`s a compliment.
NORVILLE: I think it`s just -- it`s a name and it`s got the same number of syllables.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: I imagine it probably gets interesting --
SPURLOCK: Dashingly handsome. Other than that. Yes. Apart from that, nothing. It`s hard to screw up Morgan. It`s kind of--
HILL: How about Spurlock, though?
SPURLOCK: Oh, I`ve been charged with all kinds of things there.
HILL: Beth, Morgan, Deborah, thank you very much for being with us. And you can see Beth Littleford in "Crazy Stupid Love" in theaters now. Also, Morgan Spurlock`s new series, "A Day in the Life," sounds fantastic, premieres Wednesday on Hulu. And one more note, our Joy Behar was hitched over the weekend. She got married. Congratulations, Joy, and thank you for letting me sit in. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: With the markets on a roller coaster ride, a lot of us are getting nervous about what the future holds. So we figured it would be a good time to talk to Dave Ramsey, personal money management expert, radio host, and author of the "Total Money Makeover." Dave, welcome.
DAVE RAMSEY, AUTHOR: Thank you.
HILL: All right. Tell me what I should do, because I think a lot of folks are like me. I see the market like take a tank, 500 points down one day, and I think, oh, I got to buy. The times that I`ve done that, it goes down another 300 the next day. When do you know when to buy? When is a buying opportunity, as the experts say?
RAMSEY: Well, obviously if we could figure that out, we`d all be multi-gagillionaires, exactly where the bottom is, or where the top is, or those kinds of things.
What the studies have shown us over the years, especially for stuff like your 401(k) or my 401(k) is that just keep investing steady, month in, month out. Don`t try to time the market. Those who try to jump in and jump out really don`t make more. They end up missing the windows that they would have -- the windows of profitability that they should have been in. So what I do, I just keep investing all the time.
HILL: I`ve also heard that when times are uncertain -- and that`s a good word for what we`re in right now -- you should invest in things people have to have -- diapers, food, gas, things like that. Is that wise?
RAMSEY: If you were going to pick single stocks, yes, probably being in companies that produce things like basics. You know, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. But so few Americans really exist on basics anymore anyway. Most of the things we buy are wants. And we call them needs, but they`re wants. And so, yes, but if you wanted to do single stock investing -- I don`t do that. I do growth stock mutual funds that are spread across a lot of companies and a lot of very smart people that come to work in cars longer than your house, you know, make the decisions to pick those stocks every day. That`s where I`m going to be investing. I want to be well diversified. And again, I don`t really get into the detail of it personally, and I don`t recommend it for our clients either.
HILL: What about gold?
RAMSEY: Well, gold is quite the rage right now. I call it the snuggie of investments. It`s sold on midnight cable, and if you buy it, it will make you look stupid.
I really am not a gold fan. It has gone through the roof. It`s probably going to go on up to $2,000 before the end of the year. But again, I don`t invest in things on the short term. I only invest, which by definition is five, ten, 20 years out is where I`m looking, and gold has a horrible long-term track record. All the money it`s made it`s made in the last five or six years, and it really, really, really is based on fear is where this number is right now. And as soon as the fear subsides, it`s going to tank. I`m not a gold fan.
HILL: You know, 18 years ago when I was thinking about investing, it was for the education of my then-baby. However, one of our viewers emailed this and she has got the same question I do. We`ve got kids going off to college. Are college degrees worth it right now? Because I hear that, you know, a lot of kids get out and they can`t get a job with the degrees they`ve got.
RAMSEY: Well, I think the lie we`ve told people in the marketplace is that a degree gets you a job. A degree doesn`t get you a job. What gets you a job is the ability to carry yourself into that room and shake a hand and look someone in the eye and have people skills. These are the things that cause people to become successful. That and the knowledge you got while you were getting the degree. Now, that has value.
I`ve got a little company with about 320 folks working for us, we`ll hire about 50 people this year. And we like to see a college degree. But we more concentrate on did the person learn something while they were in college that they can actually apply in the marketplace? So, yes, college is very worth it if you use some common sense on how you go about getting the degree.
HILL: And probably not art history?
RAMSEY: Well, exactly. You need to think about, you know, are we going to get a degree in German polka history, a Ph.D. in that, and go $240,000 in student loan debt to get that? Well, that kind of brain damage is out there in the marketplace and you can`t do that. But a good, basic business degree from a state college -- yes, that`s a good return on investment.
HILL: Let me ask you about mortgages, because you know, the mortgage rates are really good. But I hear that, you know, folks are trying to go and refinance because it seems smart, and then they can`t do it. Should we try to refinance right now? Or should you be focused on maybe selling a house and renting instead?
RAMSEY: Well, I think real estate`s a great buy right now. This may be the best time to buy real estate in the last 50 years. It is definitely on sale. It is way lower than it should be in a lot of cities. And when it recovers, those that purchased are going to look really, really smart.
As far as refinancing, the best time to refinance since, what, 1960, since we saw 3.25 or 3 3/8 percent rates on 15 years, oh, my goodness. It`s wonderful. But if you`re upside down in your home, you owe more than it`s worth, then that refinancing option is off the table. But if you`ve got a little equity and you are sitting with an adjustable rate mortgage or 6 percent fixed mortgage or balloon mortgage, this is the best time -- it`s 3 freaking percent. What do you want?
HILL: But you say investing in -- that`s one way to put it. You say investing in real estate right now is such a good idea. How do we know it`s not -- I guess we can`t -- but how do we know it`s not going to go really go off the cliff even from here?
RAMSEY: I don`t think it`s going to, because it is one of those things we were talking about a little bit earlier. It is a basic component of life. It`s called shelter. And so housing that has really dipped is in areas where we had a bubble, where things were artificially high based on kind of a gold rush mentality. But lots of cities have already burned back through the inventory that was on the market. Cities like Dallas and Houston, Atlanta, Nashville, where I am, Oklahoma City, a lot of these Midwestern-type cities, Kansas City, doing very, very well. You got the problems in Florida, Michigan, California, that are still there. Las Vegas still got a problem. Real estate`s very splotchy. It`s very local. So look at where you are, and you can look at how long it`s going to take it to recover.
But I`m very big on real estate. I think it`s a great place to put money. I personally am buying a lot of it right now.
HILL: Well, I certainly hope that everybody`s got the money to be able to go out there and take investment opportunities when they see them. But you know, a lot of folks still are feeling in a very precarious position, they`re afraid of losing their job. And one of our -- our viewers e-mailed in, how much of an emergency fund should a person have? Just, you know, there in case of whatever.
RAMSEY: Well, a good rule of thumb is three to six months of expenses.
HILL: Expenses meaning what?
RAMSEY: That`s a standard emergency fund. Your household expenses. If it takes you $3,000 a month to operate, three times that would be $9,000, six times that would be $18,000. So somewhere between $9,000 to $18,000 in that guy`s house is where you would be.
Now, if you`ve had job layoffs or they`re announcing the potential for downsizing, the company you`re working for is really unstable, and there are still some of those out there now, then you may want to beef that up a little bit. You may want to not be getting out of debt so much or not be putting money in a 401(k) and certainly not going on vacation and those kinds of things. Let`s just pile up cash and get ready. Worst case scenario is, you know, that you don`t lose your job and you got a big pile of cash. Well, you turn around and use that to invest with.
HILL: Here`s one that`s looking ahead. For kids, when is the time that you should start a fund for your child? You have an infant, you know they`re going -- hope they`re going to be going to college at some point. When do you start putting money into a fund for that?
RAMSEY: Well, we teach folks as far as saving for college, that`s a little bit further down a program we call the baby steps. Baby step one, I want you to save $1,000 for a starter emergency fund. Two, I want you to get out of debt, everything but the home. Three, finish the emergency fund at three to six months of expenses. Four, save for retirement. And then baby step five.
So once you`ve gotten yourself out of debt, it`s college. Baby step five. Once you`ve gotten yourself out of debt and you`ve got your emergency fund and you start your retirement, then it`s time to start saving for your kids` college.
But you are not a bad parent -- for instance, I work with a lot of single parents, single moms. You`re not a bad parent if you don`t save for your kid`s college because instead you had to choose to feed them and clothe them. Those things come first. They can go to school and do this thing called work while they`re in school. That`s not child abuse.
HILL: That four-letter word work, oh, my goodness. Dave! Dave Ramsey, thank you so much for joining us. The author of "Total Money Makeover." We`ll be back with more tips from Dave right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: We are back with personal finance guru Dave Ramsey. Our takeaways from the previous segment -- buy real estate, and if you can, take the money you`ve saved and go in there and refinance. You may have to put some more money down, but try to refinance because the rates are low.
All right, Dave, more questions from our viewers. I`m 40 years old, married with two kids but haven`t started saving for retirement. Is it too late? What should I do?
RAMSEY: Well, you need to get yourself out of debt, because the biggest problem that keeps people from saving long-term is the payments that they pay to the bank, the stupid car payment, the student loan that`s been around for so long you think it`s a pet, the Mastercard, the Visa, these things coming out our ears.
The payments that people pay out like that are the things that keep them from saving. And so get that cleaned up and then that will enable you to do the investing the way you should.
No, it is not too late. You still got plenty of time if you go ahead and start acting right starting now.
HILL: All right. If you`re a woman in your 40s or 50s as this viewer writes in, what should we invest in given the current economy?
RAMSEY: I personally invest in two things. I`m very simplistic in how I approach it. I have found that the wealthy people that I`ve spent a lot of time with have very simple investment plans. I buy real estate that I pay cash for, and I buy good growth stock-type mutual funds. I spread my mutual fund investing across growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. I only buy mutual funds that have at least a ten-year or longer track record. And I`m very--
HILL: A track record of what?
RAMSEY: I`m very long term.
HILL: Because -- go ahead.
RAMSEY: Track record -- no, what are you saying? Track record about what? What are you saying?
HILL: I was going to say when I go in there and I look at these things, I`m thinking what, 10 percent, 8 percent? What do you look for? What is a good track record?
RAMSEY: Usually what you can do is pull up that particular category. Let`s say you were looking at aggressive growth stock mutual funds. And you could look at four or five mutual funds in that category that have long track records and compare them against each other, and then there`s usually an index as well that you could compare them against. For instance, you would compare them against a Standard & Poor 500 if you were buying a growth stock mutual fund. And it has averaged around 11.5 to 12 since it began. And so -- and you`d look at the last ten years, it wouldn`t have done that well. So if you were buying something with a ten-year track record only, you compare it against that as your bellwether.
HILL: All right. Now, because of the environment and the economy being what it is, are there deals out there to be made? Say you`re going for a car or you are buying something else, can you cut a deal?
RAMSEY: Oh, absolutely. Especially if you`re going in with cash and with a quick closing and those kinds of things on a piece of real estate, or if you`re buying a car from an individual that has got a reason to sell. A lot of dealers are sitting on inventory of different things, whether it`s furniture or electronics. But a lot of businesses are operating, the retail establishments are operating pretty much as they have and don`t have big margins. So it depends on what your source is that you`re going into. But I`m always looking for a deal.
HILL: All right. Dave Ramsey, we had a great deal having you on tonight. Thank you so much.
RAMSEY: It is good to see you, E.D. Thanks for having me.
HILL: And thank you all for watching. Good night.
END
