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Joy Behar Page
American Woman Missing in Aruba; Interview with Jerry Springer
Aired August 17, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, sinister developments in the disappearance of Robyn Gardner. Cops in Aruba reportedly find blood found on a rock where Gardner was last seen with Gary Giordano. And they`re investigating a pricey insurance policy he allegedly took out on Gardner before the trip. We`ll have the latest.
Then Jerry Springer talks about the perils of reality TV in light of the suicide of a "Real Housewives" husband.
Plus, Angelina from MTV`s "Jersey Shore" will explain why she says that reality show ruined her life.
That and more starting right now.
E.D. HILL, HLN GUEST HOST: Good evening, everyone. E.D. Hill sitting in for Joy.
And an insurance policy and a bloody handprint, those are reportedly the new developments in the case of the missing American, Robyn Gardner in Aruba. Could cops now have a motive behind the disappearance of the 35- year-old woman who traveled to the island with the man who is now called the suspect, Gary Giordano?
Joining us now with more from Aruba is Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent. Martin, tell me, what do have confirmed at this point? Do we know that it was definitely a bloody handprint or blood found and they`re not sure who or what it`s from?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do know that the blood exists. I should back up and say we`ve asked the authorities about the blood. They would only say "interesting", that is an exact quote.
And then they said they cannot confirm or deny the existence of what was described as blood that was found on the beach. The very spot where we`re standing right now. It was said that it was various accounts close to the investigation say it was either a bloody hand print. Others say that it was some blood on some rocks. Either way, right now what we do not know is if it is human.
We`re right by the ocean. It could come from animals. It could come from fishing. So number one, they are testing to determine if it`s human. Number two, whether it belongs to Robyn Gardner or Gary Giordano. That would be key. They have DNA from both people. Gary Giordano, they got it from him, and they have hairbrushes and toothbrush from Gardner. That`s how they can make a match -- if.
HILL: Now, this other development, I just absolutely find fascinating is the insurance policy. Reportedly, Gary Giordano took out some kind of an accidental death insurance policy as they were traveling to the island naming -- against Robyn Gardner, naming him as the beneficiary. Have we been able to determine whether that`s accurate or not, and does that seem strange?
SAVIDGE: Well, here`s what law enforcement is telling me. That yes, in fact, there is an insurance policy, two insurance policies. They knew about this early on in their investigation because Gary Giordano told them about the insurance policies. Part of their standard procedure of interrogating or talking to an individual is to ask them things about, did you take out something like a new insurance policy. He admitted he had.
But the authorities describe it as travel insurance. Keep in mind, Aruba is an international destination. He said that he was concerned if either one of them got ill, that they might need special kind of insurance, maybe flown back to the United States. But as part of those policies, sometimes there is an accidental death clause.
The Aruban authorities will not describe or tell us how much money anybody would have received in the advent of an accidental death, and they would not also say who was the beneficiary at this particular time. They only classify it as travel insurance and leave it at that.
HILL: But there clearly was something that led the authorities to think that they needed to keep Giordano there longer than they initially had planned.
SAVIDGE: Right. There`s no question that if you discover something like this insurance policy, even if Gary Giordano is the one that exposed it to them, then it does raise some eyebrows and does potentially give somebody a motive for something to go wrong with Robyn Gardner.
So that`s the question, and that`s why Aruban authorities asked for the help of the FBI. It was the FBI that actually found these insurance forms and transported them here to the island for Aruban authorities. And the Arubans are going over those documents right now.
HILL: All right. Martin Savidge. Thank you very much.
Joining me now are two of Robyn Gardner`s friends: Lianne Delawter and Reece Armstrong. Thank you both for joining us. Deanne, let me start with you, what do you make this insurance policy information? Does it sound like something Robyn would do, go on a trip to an island and take out an insurance policy?
LIANNE DELAWTER, FRIEND OF ROBYN GARDNER: No. I don`t think that anybody would take out a life insurance policy on themselves. I`m not exactly sure what kind of insurance policy it was, but I don`t think Robyn would knowingly have signed a life insurance policy.
HILL: And Reece, I spoke to Robyn`s boyfriend, and I haven`t been able to quite figure out what`s going on here. Were they still an item? Were there things going on? She`s supposedly got the boyfriend, he claims that. Yet, she`s at an island with another guy that she`s met online. What was happening?
REECE ARMSTRONG, FRIEND OF ROBYN GARDNER: Basically yes, her and Richard were still together. They still are in my eyes. You know, they`re young, they might have had a few fights. They might have had a fight before she left for her trip.
At the end of the day, like I said, Gary was a friend. Someone she trusted. Known him for quite some time now. Given the tough situation she might have been at the time, just losing her job, taking a trip was definitely something to clear her mind.
HILL: Lianne, she described Gary Giordano as just a friend? There was nothing romantic that you got the sense from her?
DELAWTER: No. I mean, Gary -- she was over Gary. He was a friend. She`s -- it`s not -- the press keeps making it out that they had just met, and that`s not the truth. They have known each other for at least three, four years.
HILL: I did not realize that it had gone that long, that they`d been acquainted. Was she aware of his past history?
DELAWTER: I think that it had come up at some point in time. But he -- I don`t think she knew the extent, and he had explained it away.
HILL: So she had -- she had questioned him about it?
DELAWTER: I think that at some point in time, something had come up about some women or some violence or something against women. And she had explained it away.
HILL: Reece, what do you think happened to her?
ARMSTRONG: That`s a tough question. One I`ve been asked many times. This guy, Gary, definitely put the worst taste in my mouth. I don`t believe 95 percent of what he says happened.
HILL: Why not?
ARMSTRONG: Just with the women coming forward and the fact that I`ve heard and like you said, you know, nothing`s confirmed officially, and the Aruban authorities can`t confirm a lot of things. But from what I`ve heard, his story has changed several times.
Knowing Robyn, like her boyfriend had said, I cannot imagine her saying, "Hey, let`s go scuba diving." There was also reports that Gary had said to the police that they had drank vodka, and she had taken sleeping pills that day, and then took her snorkeling.
So, me as a friend, one who takes sleeping pills during the day, secondly -- that`s like saying, hey, I know you took some sleeping pills, here`s the keys to my car, why don`t you go drive. Why would you take someone snorkeling when they`re under the influence of sleeping pills and alcohol?
HILL: Lianne, did you know her to drink in the middle of the day or to take sleeping pills?
DELAWTER: Well, you`re on vacation. Of course you might have a cocktail in the middle of the day, you know. It`s 5:00 somewhere.
The people at the restaurant described it -- they could tell that she was woozy.
DELAWTER: I myself -- sleeping pills in the middle of the day, no. But maybe roofies and vodka and -- only Gary can tell us that.
HILL: All right.
Her boyfriend, Robyn`s boyfriend, says that he does not believe that story at all about snorkeling. When you take all the things that you have been told from authorities from the reports and much of it changes. We`ve got to keep that in mind. This is an ongoing investigation, so it changes.
When you take the totality of hearing about vodka, sleeping pills, blood of some type found in that area, Giordano saying that Robyn went snorkeling at that time of night, does any part of it make sense to you? Does any part of it ring true?
ARMSTRONG: No.
DELAWTER: No. It`s just starting to -- it`s starting to look bad. Really bad.
HILL: Do you think that she was too trusting?
ARMSTRONG: She`s a very trusting person, she is. And especially not -- Gary not being a stranger to her, I`m sure she trusted him even more to have her safety. But that`s just, like what I was just saying. If he was aware and told the police she had taken sleeping pills, she had been drinking, then why on earth did you take her snorkeling? You know, that`s putting your supposedly good friends in a horrible position that nothing good could come out of that.
DELAWTER: She wouldn`t have snorkeled. She wouldn`t have snorkeled. She wouldn`t have gotten her hair and her make-up messed up. She wouldn`t have snorkeled.
At the end of the day, you have all of the bad things, and you have him leaving without our friend. And where`s our friend? We just want our friend back. Where is she? And only he knows those answers.
HILL: And the investigation continues in Aruba. Lianne and Reece, thank you very much.
ARMSTRONG: Thank you.
DELAWTER: Thank you.
HILL: And I want to tell you, be sure to tune in tomorrow night. I will have an exclusive interview with Natalee Holloway`s mother, Beth, about this Aruba case. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: TV talk show legend Jerry Springer hosts a warts-and-all dating game. It`s on GSN, called "Baggage," where contestants choose prospective suitors only after they`ve revealed often embarrassing, kind of gross flaws. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY SPRINGER, HOST, "BAGGAGE FIRST DATES": Please reveal your baggage. I pick food from my date`s teeth. You can`t handle the tooth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
SPRINGER: And what do you think about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that`s disgusting.
SPRINGER: Yes, what -- what about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love a beautiful smile.
SPRINGER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So if there`s something obstructing your teeth, I`ll take it out for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Immediately I started going --
SPRINGER: Isn`t it true?
HILL: Yes, you do. You do. I watched you, and you did it, too.
Jerry has now taken the concept to the next level with a special called "Baggage First Dates," where those couples take their awkward first steps toward romance with a camera with them.
I`m happy to welcome back to the show Jerry Springer.
SPRINGER: It`s great to be back here. Thank you.
HILL: So how -- where do you find people that are willing to reveal things like this about themselves?
SPRINGER: Well, I think it`s become part of our pop culture. I mean it`s -- it`s something that`s been going on for the last 30 years. And now with improved technology where people can go on Facebook and with their video camera -- with their camera -- camera phones, so everybody is kind of -- they feel very free to talk about their own lives. Celebrities have done it for years, now regular people are starting to do it.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Does that make -- does that -- give us a sense that we have some sort of fame or a celebrity about us?
SPRINGER: It`s probably some of that. I -- I just -- I think it`s more than the idea that you`re going to be famous. Because most people realize you`re not really going to be famous. It will be -- for a couple of days and that`s it. And they`ll tell their friends, hey, I was on television or something like that.
I -- I think it`s more that people just feel more open about talking about things that used to be embarrassing to us. Now those of us of an older generation still would never go on a show and talk about their private lives.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Right.
SPRINGER: Include me in that group.
But I think young people today, they just -- they -- they share everything, not realizing that there are consequences to what they share.
HILL: Yes. What`s the weirdest thing that you`ve -- you`ve had on the show?
SPRINGER: Well, we had -- on my regular show -- oh on "Baggage"?
HILL: On "Baggage".
SPRINGER: Well, on "Baggage", we had this one -- it was really kind of neat how it ended. We had this beautiful woman on the show, and she had to choose among three good-looking guys which ones she wanted to go out with.
HILL: Yes.
SPRINGER: And each of the guys saw her and they`re going, oh, choose me, choose me.
HILL: Yes.
SPRINGER: You know they are -- and finally she -- despite the baggage that these guys had, she chose one. And they are hugging and jumping up and down and the audience is cheering. This is wonderful but now of course, he gets to see what`s in her bag. And when she opened her bag, it turned out that she was born a man.
HILL: Oh and how did they react to that?
SPRINGER: Well, this was interesting. The guy was -- he thought about it, was at first embarrassed. Thought about it and says, "Well, I`m going to give it a try because you`re a woman now. I don`t care what you were when you were born." Which was really kind of a neat -- oh and you start to wonder, would I be that open?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Yes.
SPRINGER: Would I be that -- so it was -- it was a nice moment.
HILL: That composed.
SPRINGER: Yes.
HILL: Because that`s a big one to drop on you.
SPRINGER: Sure, yes. Well, I used to be a woman, but I keep it quiet. I used to be --
HILL: I won`t mention the skirt you`re wearing underneath the set here.
SPRINGER: Yes, yes.
HILL: But the heels look great.
SPRINGER: Thank you.
HILL: You know, I think you bring up a really great point about there`s a generational difference here. Where young people -- I mean my -- my kids, they`ll tell you everything about their life.
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: Yes.
HILL: They`ll tell everybody.
SPRINGER: Yes.
HILL: Do you think that -- that there is a point where they -- they will start saying, hmm, I really regret that? Because I think he -- you -- do see that little bit of people who were going on some of the reality shows and then they -- they step back and they think, whoa, that`s not me.
SPRINGER: Yes, I think there`s another influence, as well. I think at some point they may, but I think what will happen first is that the things we reveal about ourselves after a while will decide that that`s not so shocking. Or that`s not so out of the ordinary anymore.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Is that a good thing or bad thing?
SPRINGER: It`s inevitable. It almost -- it`s not worth making a judgment about it. We are becoming a much more permissive, open society. Now you can say I wish you were back in the `50s again, but the fact is there was a lot of hypocrisy back then. We -- we pretended we were living this perfect lives, but behind closed doors, we weren`t.
Now it`s much more in the open. So certain things -- I think we`re much more open about sex than we used to be. We`re much more honest about it. But there are consequences about that. If we`re too permissive then all of a sudden people do things that have consequences and really hurt themselves in life.
I think generally, though, we`re more open. It`s -- it`s almost absurd to say can we ever go back to be a private society.
HILL: Yes.
SPRINGER: With today`s technology, it`s virtually impossible to be totally private anymore.
HILL: Well I mean we also, it`s not just being private about yourself, you want to know everything about everyone else. Because you look at the - the success of all the reality shows and you realize that people are tuning in because they want to see what that person is doing.
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: But that has always been the case. You could go back 500 years, and people would get together in the town square, and they would gossip. If they heard that someone down the street was doing something and oh, you know, he was sleeping with a woman next door, you don`t think those people would talk about it? Of course they talked it. It`s just they didn`t have radio and television and camera phones and -- Facebook --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Now it`s instantaneous, and you never can take it back.
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: That`s the real difference. I think we are social animals, and we are fascinated by the human behavior of other people. You could be a professor of English at Harvard, and if you came home one night and you heard that -- or you saw that your wife was in bed with the next-door neighbor, you would act exactly -- even if you`re a professor at Harvard, you would act exactly the same as the people on my show.
You wouldn`t say for "Forsooth, what is it that I find in my bed, dear?" You would start cursing, throwing things, yelling, throwing the guy out. You know, so the idea that -- that we`re all so proper in life, the truth is most of us know how to behave in public. But I don`t know that the behavior of wealthy people, for example, is any different than the behavior of poorer people.
HILL: Well, I know that the behavior of the folks on your show is interesting. So you want to check that out on the Game Show Network.
SPRINGER: Yes. On "Baggage," yes.
HILL: Yes.
SPRINGER: My show, be careful.
HILL: We`re going to take a break. More with Jerry Springer right after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, former "Jersey Shore" cast member Angelina says reality TV ruined her life. She`ll be here to tell us exactly why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPRINGER: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a career-enter. Hey Mr. Tambourine Man play a song for me I`m not sleepy now and there ain`t no place I`m going to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: We wanted to surprise you with something.
SPRINGER: Sorry about that.
HILL: I want to ask you about a -- little bit more about this reality -- you know, the reality TV that we`re so intrigued by.
Because earlier in the week we had an attorney for Russell Armstrong. You know, he just committed suicide --
SPRINGER: "Housewives of Beverly Hills".
HILL: Yes, his wife is one of the "Housewives of Beverly Hills". His friend was saying that there was such a pressure to live up to the hype, what people thought they were, that he had gone into great debt. And now all of a sudden his wife was divorcing him, and there was just all this things piling up on him.
Is there that pressure once you get in that life where people are watching you to be sort of more than you are?
SPRINGER: Well, I think there is. That is an example of the consequence of being on television. Of being in front of the public. You step into the spotlight, and it isn`t -- you can`t control it anymore.
HILL: But it`s because they want to see you and then all of a sudden these people are showing something that`s not them. They weren`t living within their means, they`re throwing $60,000 parties.
SPRINGER: Well, those are bad judgments -- those are bad judgments made by individuals. But we`re a free society. And someone chooses to go on television in a free media, they take the consequences of that. They may turn out to be famous, loved, isn`t it wonderful. They may also turn out to be ridiculed. It may turn out that their life takes a bad turn. In this case, it was a horrible tragedy.
But I don`t know what the alternative is. The alternative is to say certain people can`t be on television. Then who`s going to determine who can get on and who can`t?
HILL: Are they ready for the fame, for the pressure, for all of that? Because we`re under a microscope.
SPRINGER: But people -- I know but think about it. Then we have to say to newspapers, we have to say to television news programs, stop doing stories about people where you hurt them. Stop doing a story whereby you could humiliate someone with that headline.
Newspapers every day run stories, the worst pictures they can find, the most salacious headlines they can find, and they never ask the person they`re writing about is this story going to embarrass you? Will this story hurt your career? They do it anyway.
HILL: Here`s one -- a cabin crew on Air France refuses to let Gerard Depardieu to go to the bathroom. He apparently stands up and goes to the bathroom right there. People like that deserve to get called out, don`t they?
SPRINGER: Yes, well the airlines must give out Depends. I`m telling you -- I`m 67 years old. I`m not ashamed to tell you but my gosh, when they say stay in your seats, you know -- obviously he shouldn`t have done that. That`s different. You`re inviting that kind of behavior.
But let`s be honest, the media jumps on stories, never worrying about whether the people they`re writing about, whether it will hurt their family, hurt their marriage, hurt their career, whether it humiliates them. And what if some of the people they write on suddenly go and commit suicide? The newspapers` never responsible.
Then, you know what the media says? Well, we`re in the news business. The public has a right to know. 95 percent of the stories we put on television and we put in newspapers, there is no need to know. There`s an interest in knowing.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: That`s what drives the news, the interest.
SPRINGER: Yes, yes. Not just stuff we need to know.
HILL: Jerry, thank you very much.
SPRINGER: Thanks for having me.
HILL: Catch Jerry Springer on "The Baggage: First Date Special" Sunday at 8:00 p.m. on GSN.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Welcome back. I`m E.D. Hill, filling in for Joy this week. A lot of questions still about the suicide of Russell Armstrong, the husband of "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" star Taylor Armstrong. One of the biggest questions being asked is whether the pressure of living life in the reality spotlight was just too much for him. Here to talk about the reality show fast lane is a woman who says being part of the "Jersey Shore" cast ruined her life. Angelina Pivarnick. Welcome.
ANGELINA PIVARNICK, FORMER CAST MEMBER, JERSEY SHORE: Hi.
HILL: Your reaction when you heard about this suicide. A lot of folks have said, look, they`re trying to live a life that really wasn`t their life, and it just built up so much that he couldn`t take it anymore. Does that make any sense?
PIVARNICK: I mean, it`s a crazy life to live, you know. And I mean, it`s got its good points, and it`s got its bad points. And I guess he just couldn`t take it anymore, and he decided to kill himself.
HILL: Apparently they were spending money they didn`t have. They were trying to be somebody, something that they weren`t. And according to his attorney, it just drove them into debt. And he was -- he was very stressed out about that. When you`re on a reality show like that, is there a temptation, or are you pushed to sort of do things and say things and be things that you aren`t?
PIVARNICK: Well, you really have to always like look your best, everyone`s taking pictures of you. You`re famous, you know? It`s different from just living that normal life now, you know? And I guess that that`s what they did. They just went out and spent money that they couldn`t spend. And, you know, before they knew it, they were over their heads with things. That`s just sometimes what happens when you`re in this world.
HILL: But it`s a reality show, it`s supposed to show what you really do. Do you think that you were portrayed --
PIVARNICK: I was not portrayed like who I really am. You know, when you put cameras in front of you, sometimes you get a little nervous or you`re not really being your full self. But I know that I was not portrayed the person that I really am.
HILL: So what`s the difference between how people viewed you on reality TV and who you really are?
PIVARNICK: I am a really outgoing, fun girl. I get along with mostly everyone. I really don`t like to fight too much. I mean, if I fight, I fight. But I love to just have a good time, you know. And on the show, I was just portrayed as just the villain and the girl that fought with everyone and the drama queen.
HILL: So what was that?
PIVARNICK: I have no idea, you know, they all ganged up on me, and it just doesn`t make sense to me. There were things they did wrong, and there were things that I did wrong. So I mean, we were both -- both parties were wrong, you know, at some points.
But I`m a human, and we all make mistakes. And they make mistakes. And I was the one that was basically just pushed to the limit, just to -- I don`t know. I guess like I just couldn`t take it anymore, you know. And I just hated the way I was being treated. And, you know, look what Mike did. The Situation. He put a tampon under my pillow. I mean, who does that, you know what I mean? That is a disgrace for females all around the world. You don`t do something like that.
HILL: Do you think that being on that show has made -- if you`re looking for the silver lining in this, has it made you a better person?
PIVARNICK: I think it`s made me a better person because I actually -- I know who I am. And if people hate on me, I am still living my life, and I`m having a fun time doing it. I`m not going to let anybody get me down.
HILL: When we take a look at the other cast members on "Jersey Shore," are they really like that or are they coming across as perhaps nicer than they are?
PIVARNICK: I think -- it`s funny that you asked that. It`s weird. It`s like some of them are portrayed the way that they are, and most of them are just being fake on camera.
HILL: Like who? Who`s fake? You`re not on there anymore, you couldn`t care less.
PIVARNICK: Mike is fake. He`s fake. You know, he`s just a fake person. And a couple of the other ones are fake, too. I don`t even -- listen, my life with that is kind of like -- it`s done. And I want to be the better person and not really talk about them like that, because I`m better than that.
HILL: You`re moving on now. You got a record out.
PIVARNICK: I do. I have a record out, yes.
HILL: What`s it called?
PIVARNICK: It`s called "Gotta Go Out." I`m really excited about it. It`s amazing.
HILL: So you still like the party lifestyle?
PIVARNICK: I do. I mean, I`m a young girl, I`m 25 years old. And I like to go out. And this song is definitely about my life. And it`s basically for females out there, for guys out there that just like to party and have a good time. And like, you just want to go out and just let loose for the night.
HILL: Let me just ask you about something I know is probably painful for you. But I want to ask about it because it goes to the reality show and the pressures and everything else. You have announced that you were pregnant.
PIVARNICK: Yes.
HILL: And you lost the child.
PIVARNICK: Uh-huh.
HILL: Do you think it was that stress of the public spotlight?
PIVARNICK: Yes. I -- I admitted that it was, because, you know, it`s like pressure. It`s very hard to -- like people think it`s all beautiful and it`s all like, you know, like roses and everything, and it`s great. But at the same time, like I said, it has its great times, and it has its downfalls, you know. And I just kept hearing like the media was talking so much negative about me and this and that. And I was just like, I can`t take it. I was very stressed out. And it just happened the way it happened. And I can`t -- I can`t stop what God intended, you know.
HILL: Did the whole way you were portrayed upset your family?
PIVARNICK: It did, actually, you know what, my mom cries all the time when she sees -- because the reruns play now.
HILL: Yes.
PIVARNICK: Because the new season just came out. And she goes, I can`t even watch it anymore, she goes, I have to turn it off. I cry all the time. My sisters cry. It`s ridiculous, because I`m not that person. I`m not that person. I`m a fun girl. I mean, you know, I just -- I can`t even believe it. When I watch it watch myself, I`m like, that`s not me, you know?
HILL: Do you think that the producers -- you know, a villain is always a good thing to have on a show. Do you think that there was perhaps something behind the scenes where they said, OK, you know, why don`t you guys go after this or --
PIVARNICK: You know, I still -- to me, I don`t know. I --
HILL: You question it, I can tell.
PIVARNICK: I question it. I question it. I swear to God I question it, because I don`t know -- it was like I killed one of their family members, the way that they were treating me. It was crazy, you know. And I -- I`ve had the same friends for years, and they look at me and they are like, Ange, you are not like that, you are not like that. You are a fun girl. I`m the life of the party. And I`m just -- I am a sweet girl. I`m a very good friend, too, and I don`t understand why I was portrayed that way.
HILL: Is there anything that you did during the show that you wish you hadn`t?
PIVARNICK: I --
HILL: A situation that you could take back or something you said --
PIVARNICK: I would say that the Sammy and Ronny letter, I really would say that, because I don`t think I should have told Jay Wow and Snooki that I would have -- that I was going to do it with them, because I actually didn`t. If you watched the show, I didn`t have anything to do with the letter personally. But they swear to this day like that I did, which is funny because they wrote it themselves and you could see clearly they were typing it, just those two. And I should have never got involved with that, basically, because it put me in a bad spot and made them all turn on me.
HILL: Do you watch the show yourself? You said your mother doesn`t watch the reruns.
PIVARNICK: No.
HILL: Do you watch the show?
PIVARNICK: No, my mom doesn`t even watch anything. None of my family watch the show anymore. Because we just don`t want to deal with it, you know? And I don`t watch it.
HILL: Do you think there`s a difference in the way they portray the women and the men? Because when I watch one of these clips, the girls are going at it and the guys are just watching it like it`s a ping-pong match. Sitting back and letting them look stupid.
PIVARNICK: It really -- I don`t know. It`s just crazy. The show`s just crazy drama now. And I`m happy I`m not a part of it anymore. I`m doing my own thing now. I moved on. I`m happy with my life. And --
HILL: So would you do a reality show ever again?
PIVARNICK: Yes, actually I`m in the works of that right now.
HILL: You are? What are you doing?
PIVARNICK: My own show. It`s in the works. It`s in development stage right now. I`m really excited about that.
HILL: Is it going to follow you around or --
PIVARNICK: I can`t really discuss that yet, but it`s definitely going to be sexy and drama-filled and -- just -- an amazing type of show that everybody`s going to want to watch.
HILL: And in terms of your personal life, do you -- you still want a baby?
PIVARNICK: Of course. I would be lying if I said I didn`t, you know. I definitely want a kid one day, a baby. That would be great. A husband, like a family, that`s what I want. And, you know, obviously it wasn`t my time yet. And one day hopefully I`ll be blessed with it again. And we`ll move on from there.
HILL: Sounds like you`ve taken a lot of very valuable lessons from --
PIVARNICK: Yes.
HILL: What turned out to be a difficult situation.
PIVARNICK: Definitely difficult. It`s very difficult to be somebody in the reality world. It`s good and bad, you know?
HILL: Angelina, thanks so much for being with us.
PIVARNICK: Thank you.
HILL: Appreciate it.
When we come back, I will talk some more with Jerry Springer. And we`re also going to be joined by the entertaining Penn Jillette. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: She`s running for the GOP presidential nomination, Michele Bachmann, and she seems to be on a roll lately. Fresh off winning the Iowa straw poll, Bachmann took her campaign to South Carolina yesterday where she spoke to a crowd of supporters. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Before we get started, let`s all say happy birthday to Elvis Presley today.
Happy birthday!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Yes, one little problem -- it wasn`t his birthday, it was the anniversary of his death. So was that a simple slip, or is it proof that Bachmann is prone to gaffes? Here now with their unique views on this, and much more, the guy making the noise to my left, Penn Jillette, illusionist and author of "God No: Signs You May Already Be an Atheist and Other Magical Tales." And Jerry Springer, legendary TV host, former mayor of Cincinnati.
OK. You`ve been in the political spotlight. Is everybody just focusing on every single word she says? Is it fair?
JERRY SPRINGER, FORMER TALK SHOW HOST/CINCINNATI MAYOR: Well, when you run for president, it -- it inevitably happens. So it`s a gaffe, and it will pass. But I think the reason this has some wheels to it, some legs to it, is not that she got the date wrong and mixed that up. But what you need most in politics, you can be a conservative, you can be a liberal, but you have to be authentic. And what that was a slip is that it was -- she obviously didn`t know much about Elvis or wasn`t really concerned -- you know, she was using it as a way to show I`m one of you, we`re all together, we love Elvis, and that was phony.
That`s what -- is why people are jumping on her. Not because she got the date wrong. You could take a poll, people aren`t going to remember the date. But the fact that she was trying to sell it --
HILL: I never remember the dates.
SPRINGER: Well, he was born on January 8th, 1935, in Tupelo, Mississippi. But --
PENN JILLETTE, ILLUSIONIST: Yes, you got to know that.
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: But it just shows that it`s not authentic. You know, she was just trying to fool the people like, oh, yes, I`m one of you. And I think that -- that`s where politicians trip up.
HILL: Penn, all politicians come out there. And the idea is you have to relate to people to show I can represent you because I am you.
JILLETTE: Yes, that`s a really, really good point. The lack of authenticity. Because the mistake itself doesn`t -- doesn`t mean anything. But to pretend that you`re not going to be scrutinized for every single thing you say is insane. I mean, as soon as you start running for president, there become 100 people whose full-time job it is to find everything wrong with you. That`s all they do.
HILL: But they find everything wrong with everyone. Joe Biden, when he tells the guy in the wheelchair, stand up so that everybody can see you. You know, everybody makes these mistakes. But it does seem to me, and maybe it`s just my, you know, being a woman that I pick up on this, and it may be absolutely inaccurate, but it seems kind of sexist to me. Am I wrong?
JILLETTE: I don`t think so. I think it`s absolutely the opposite. I think the idea that women are now in politics and the gloves are off and they get hit as hard as the men in politics is a very, very good sign. I think that with way back with Geraldine Ferraro and stuff, they were trying to be a little bit careful. No one knew really what to do. And I think being--
HILL: And she was tough as nails. She could take on anybody, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: Honestly, the media goes after every politician. So we can`t just say, oh, it`s because she`s a woman. And you -- which I understand. But part of the tape was cut short because she went on and on about Elvis. You know, it wasn`t like sometimes if you`re a rock star and you go from town to town on a tour, you say hello, Detroit! Problem is, you`re in Minneapolis.
HILL: I remember -- I think it was Gore in Lambert Field.
JILLETTE: It`s also funny that she couldn`t feel the crowd. I mean, there`s a great Youtube thing of Bruce Springsteen. He comes out and says, you know, I forget what town it is, but it`s a different town. Hello, Cincinnati, he`s in a different town, and does this whole thing. And throws his hands in the air and hits the guitar, and does the whole thing. And then as he hears the audience, he goes over and talks to Miami Steve, who says, where are we? And then explains how embarrassed he is.
It seems like somebody who`s a politician should be able to read the crowd. Because it sounds to me like you`d feel people going, yeah, Elvis.
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: She`s not going to be the nominee anyway.
HILL: OK. Rick Perry, let`s talk about the Texas governor.
JILLETTE: What a segue. You two really work together --
(CROSSTALK)
JILLETTE: It`s so great to see pros work.
HILL: We have until (ph) 11:00, we`ve got a really good gig then.
JILLETTE: That was good.
HILL: Rick Perry.
JILLETTE: Like ping-pong.
HILL: Enters. And Michele Bachmann`s fresh off the Iowa straw poll win. But here Perry comes in. And I want to get your opinion about this whole treason statement that he made.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: If this guy prints more money between now and the election, I don`t know what you all would do to him in Iowa, but we`d -- we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas. I mean, printing more money to play politics at that particular time in American history is almost treacherous (ph) -- treasonous in my opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Maybe he meant treacherous.
JILLETTE: If he stuck with --
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: He would have been OK.
HILL: Treasonous?
JILLETTE: He should have said treasonous, how about that Elvis? Wasn`t Elvis something?
SPRINGER: Yes. Well, treason, of course, is the capital crime. And you hate to hear a governor of Texas, where they have, you know, a lot of the death penalty--
HILL: Hang`em high.
SPRINGER: Suggest it. So I mean, that obviously is a horrible thing to say. He`ll -- he`ll get over that, you know. But what he`s learning, and I think President Obama probably said it correctly, is when you`re running for president of the United States, it is not like you`re running for governor or Congress. It`s not a local election. Everything you say has impact and import because the rest of the world is watching. And to suggest that the chairman of the Fed, even if you don`t like the Fed, to suddenly say it`s because of a decision which you agree or don`t agree with is treasonous is -- I mean, it`s so off the charts --
(CROSSTALK)
JILLETTE: -- the director of the Fed, saying -- using the word treason with anyone is going to be a big mistake. That is -- that is the most serious crime.
HILL: I think we can agree with the treacherous part of it.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: There is this feeling in America that whether you`re a Republican, Democrat, libertarian, whatever, you`re dissatisfied with what`s going on in Washington. Is that --
JILLETTE: Someone must be happy about it, right?
HILL: You think so? Have you met a person who`s happy about what`s happening in Washington? Who says, they`re doing a great job.
(CROSSTALK)
SPRINGER: In America, the government is us. So this business that we say, you know --
HILL: Have we messed up?
SPRINGER: I love politicians who run against Washington -- they are Washington! You know, what is this all about? And you know, obviously I`m liberal, so I think the federal government has a lot of good things that it does and it`s important to have. And I want to have a national government. You know, I think we`ve -- we moved beyond that. We are a whole nation.
HILL: But how do we afford it? I want to ask you all about taxes when we come back. We`ll take a quick break. More with Jerry and Penn in a minute.
JILLETTE: Good segues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: I`m back with two very opinionated people, Jerry Springer and Penn Jillette. I want to get your opinion on what the CEO of Starbucks has just recently done. He sent out this note to other CEOs saying don`t give any money to any politician until they get their act together in Washington. Is that a valid idea?
SPRINGER: I like that idea because I don`t think corporations ought to be making political contributions. I disagree with the Supreme Court decision. So from my point of view, I think that`s wonderful. Now admittedly, I think Starbucks is doing that because probably they have a more liberal bent. But I wish all corporations would stop giving. Let individuals contribute. This idea that a corporation is a person is absurd. I have never dated a corporation.
HILL: Never say never.
SPRINGER: OK, once. But other than that -- no. So it`s like -- I want them out of it. They`ve got too much money and they`re controlling politics.
JILLETTE: I don`t think that a corporation is magic. I don`t think that there`s anything special about that. Corporations, as you said, the government are people, corporations are people, too. The New York Times gets to publish their opinions and the New York Times is a corporation.
HILL: So they should get to put the money if they want to.
JILLETTE: I think you should be able to. The fewer limits we have on freedom of speech right across the board, the better. I always want to go toward more freedom and not less.
That having been said, I think that Starbucks deciding not to give money, anybody deciding not to give money to Washington, is a fabulous idea. And I don`t know if you have to be of the liberal bent to do that. I think telling them -- I don`t know what get their act together means.
HILL: Yeah, he didn`t really explain--
(CROSSTALK)
JILLETTE: But I think it`s a cool thing to do.
HILL: Let me ask you about taxes. Warren Buffett, brilliant guy, comes out and he says -- and a number of other very wealthy people have said this, too -- sure, raise my taxes, I should be paying more. He said, come out on the absolute ultra rich. Now, when we have the ideas that say $250,000 is the ultra mega rich, when you`re in a place like Manhattan, or L.A. or Las Vegas, that doesn`t really hold water.
JILLETTE: Las Vegas is cheap.
HILL: What do you think about this tax the mega rich and what is rich?
SPRINGER: Well--
JILLETTE: He`s rich.
SPRINGER: Yeah, I should clearly--
HILL: You`re rich?
SPRINGER: Yes.
HILL: You want to pay more taxes?
SPRINGER: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
JILLETTE: Who is stopping Warren Buffett from giving all his money to the government right now? Why can`t he do that?
HILL: He can.
SPRINGER: Because that won`t make a difference. If you just get a few people volunteering to do it. The point is we are very lucky to live in the United States of America.
JILLETTE: Absolutely. So why doesn`t he start by giving all his money to the government? That`s an easy solution. It`s so easy to write an op-ed piece. He gives--
(CROSSTALK)
JILLETTE: He gives so much money to philanthropy, which shows he thinks he can do a pretty good job with his money himself, it doesn`t have to be the government. He does such a wonderful --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: We`ll pass the hat.
JILLETTE: Sure. We all do, we all do very much. I don`t know why we think the government automatically does a better job with our money than we do.
HILL: We are going to continue talking on government tomorrow. I appreciate you guys coming in. Always good to talk to you, Jerry and Penn. Thank you.
Also a quick note. I am going to be interviewing the controversial Christine O`Donnell about her new memoir on Friday. Thanks for watching. Good night.
END
