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Joy Behar Page
"Housewives" Suicide Controversy; Gene Simmons to Tie the Knot; Eddie Murphy`s Oscar Turn; Jerry Lewis` Last Stand Up; Interview With Denis Leary
Aired September 06, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, new controversy as Bravo airs the season premiere of the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills". The show debuts just weeks after a husband featured on the program committed suicide. Does the show bear any responsibility for his death? And Joy wants to know, do networks deliberately cast unstable reality stars to boost ratings?
Then Denis Leary talks to joy about the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and how the tragedy inspired his show "Rescue Me".
Plus, Joy finally dishes on her surprise wedding to her boyfriend of 29 years.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Bravo`s the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" premiered last night despite the tragic suicide of one of its reality stars, Russell Armstrong. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that in the town that we live in where your financial status is so important that there`s this need to keep up the front of what you have. That`s all he ever wanted to be was be successful and be a venture capitalist. It was something that is very, very important to him. When it went down the tubes, it was too much pressure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So should Bravo have allowed this season to air? And how much responsibility should reality programs bear for the fate of the stars they create? I`ll be talking to two former "Housewives". But first I want to go to Ronald Richards, Russell Armstrong`s former attorney. Did you watch the show last night, sir?
RONALD RICHARDS, RUSSELL ARMSTRONG`S FORMER ATTORNEY: Yes, I did.
BEHAR: What did you think about Bravo`s decision to air the season?
RICHARDS: Well, I thought they had a carefully scripted preamble that sort was wrote by lawyers to try to kind of dampen any sort of future defamation of Mr. Armstrong`s family name. And I thought the show showed these housewives` as being very vicious toward their other spouses, as well.
BEHAR: So was Russell`s family consulted regarding the decision to air this season or no?
RICHARDS: They weren`t consulted at all. They had a memorial on Friday where over 200 people attended in Denton, Texas, at the chapel at the cemetery.
BEHAR: I see. TMZ says that Russell`s family watched the show to make sure he`s not being portrayed negatively. Is that true?
RICHARDS: Yes, they`re watching the show. Last night there was no footage of Russell shown, just a warning that this show was shot before the suicide, and then they had Taylor go into her private psychotherapy sessions with Russell.
BEHAR: What were they -- are they considering legal action? Can they sue?
RICHARDS: Well, they`re considering a variety of things. Until there`s some footage of Russell shown or he`s defamed on air, there`s not much to talk about. Last night was completely within the goal posts so to speak. There was nothing that I saw that was problematic at all except it was silly to pretend that they`re trying to work on a marriage that everybody knows has now dissipated.
BEHAR: That is a little weird.
RICHARDS: Yes.
BEHAR: In that clip that we just saw, the housewife, Kyle Richards, who was speaking, she alluded to the fact that Russell may have been trying to keep up a front, pretending he was rich, you know, like that. Do you think that pressure contributed to his suicide? Did she have a point or no?
RICHARDS: Yes, she has a very good point because the drive for Taylor to stay on the show kept pushing him to finance that lifestyle. And when she veered away from him, he was left with the liabilities and without the marriage or the brand, it really contributed to his depression and his ultimate suicide.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much for coming on the show tonight and giving us some information. Thanks very much, Ronald.
RICHARDS: Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Ok.
RICHARDS: Bye.
BEHAR: Now I want to turn to Michaele Salahi, former co-star of the "Real Housewives of D.C."; and Dina Manzo former co-star of the "Real Housewives of New Jersey" and now the host of "Dina`s Party" on HGTV. Welcome, ladies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
Dina, what`s your opinion of Bravo`s decision to air the show last night?
DINA MANZO, FORMER STAR, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW JERSEY": I was shocked. I thought they would wait a little bit. I know, knowing Bravo they were still going to go ahead with it. But I really thought maybe they`d postpone it a bit. So I was shocked. I really thought it was postponed. I turned on my TV, and there it was.
BEHAR: Well, you took yourself off of the "Housewives" show, didn`t you?
MANZO: Yes.
BEHAR: Why?
MANZO: I mean that`s what people don`t understand. I know you`re in contract and everything but you make your own decisions. If you don`t want to do something, you don`t have to do it. I didn`t -- my husband chose not to be on, thank God. At first, it kind of bummed me out, but it actually made us closer in the end because he was my normalcy. He was the one I went to, to get away from all that.
BEHAR: Why didn`t he want to go?
MANZO: He just -- he was too busy working. He`s like, "I`ve got a real job," you know. So he kind of did his thing. I was like -- at first, I was like, but everybody else -- especially my family. But then a few weeks in, I was like, thank god, it was the best decision ever.
Then I pulled my daughter off Season Two. You can make those decisions. If you`re not happy, you can walk away. You`re in a contract to film. But I said you know what; you can film me playing chess. I`ll move this top on the other side and move it again.
BEHAR: But this guy apparently couldn`t pull himself off.
MANZO: I mean listen, I don`t think Bravo -- I`m not for the drama and there`s a lot of stirring going on. But I don`t think Bravo`s to blame or production. I think you make your own choices, and there`s a line that needs to be really --
BEHAR: Not crossed?
MANZO: -- yes. Various definitive where you`re willing to go with your family.
BEHAR: Ok. Now Michaele, Bravo took out one clip of Taylor, the wife, shopping for lingerie to spice up her marriage. They showed her talking about couples` therapy. Let`s watch the clip first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR ARMSTRONG, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS": We`re working on things. We`re really deep into so much psychotherapy that I`m sick of myself. And so it`s been really helpful for each of us to take a look at our lives and what we brought into the relationship and how it`s affecting our time together. You know, it`s been good for me, I know. I can`t speak for Russell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Now Michaele, why do you think they didn`t take Taylor out of the show altogether? Why keep her in at all?
MICHAELE SALAHI, FORMER CO-STAR, "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF D.C.": You know, I think that she signed on for the reality program, Joy. And to be honest, you know, you sign on and you`re locked in. That`s their business and they built an incredible franchise. So you know, they`re going to use their footage because we`re all talking about it.
It`s a tragedy, my condolence go out to her and his family. But I -- I couldn`t watch it last night, Joy. I didn`t watch it. Just because for me it`s too dark of a cloud. I can`t -- it`s too painful.
(CROSSTALK)
SALAHI: I remember being under scrutiny myself and not wanting to be spun a certain way in the media, Joy. And it`s really hard -- I remember saying what Russell said, I said it to my own mom. You know, I don`t think I can endure it. I think it`s too personal for me to watch it. I can`t.
BEHAR: So you`ve identified with --
SALAHI: Yes --
BEHAR: -- this man?
SALAHI: Yes, Joy, completely. Yes.
BEHAR: Because of the whole thing with the White House, that whole hullabaloo thing -- whatever?
SALAHI: Yes.
BEHAR: The alleged break-in? I`m going to say "alleged" because you denied that you did it. But so --
SALAHI: Right.
BEHAR: Yes --
SALAHI: We didn`t. And honestly, a lot of people didn`t know a permit was done by the production company. So when you film in front of the White House, whether you go there or not, you have to have clearance. They knew, you know, you have to get permits in D.C. You just can`t roll around with your camera.
BEHAR: Why do you -- I`m curious, you were burned in that whole White House debacle. Then why do you stay on this show? You`re asking for more publicity, could be negative. Why do you stay?
SALAHI: Well, I`m on a different show now --
BEHAR: What show are you on?
SALAHI: The "Real Housewives". I signed an NDA, so I have to say watch what happens, but it comes out next year. So we`re in production right now and filming. I`m really excited about it.
But the "Real Housewives" is an incredible franchise --
BEHAR: The "Housewives" you mean -- franchise.
SALAHI: Yes, the "Real Housewives" franchise. It is a great franchise. Why did I do it? To get my own life, you know. I was always living, Joy -- to be perfectly honest -- for my husband`s life. And I love him, but at the same time, I got lost. And I was like, gosh, I need my own -- I need something to save myself. So this was an opportunity during that period.
BEHAR: How do you feel about all that, Dina?
MANZO: I have a totally different take on things because I did it for other reasons. I have a foundation for children with cancer. I wanted to get it out there. And I have my business to promote, and I got my own show for my business out of it. I would never do another reality show --
BEHAR: Why not?
MANZO: It was the most toxic situation ever. I -- you allow it to happen. You put yourself in there.
BEHAR: Why is it toxic?
MANZO: Well --
BEHAR: How real is it really? It`s not that real.
MANZO: I call it enhanced reality because you react the way you would, but you`re put in situations you normally wouldn`t be in. So you choose to do this.
SALAHI: Right.
MANZO: People want to be on television, and people want to be famous.
SALAHI: Right.
MANZO: They choose this life. I would never put my life on TV ever again. I don`t want people knowing -- you know, they had these problems, obviously. It was under a microscope --
BEHAR: Maybe they should have a shrink on site.
MANZO: I think they really should. I think anyone seeing a reality show needs some --
BEHAR: Get a shrink.
SALAHI: Joy, you know what, "The Bachelor", I heard that production with ABC, they do that. I believe we will see --
BEHAR: It`s not helping.
SALAHI: Yes. Well --
BEHAR: Maybe they need a staff of shrinks over at "The Bachelor".
SALAHI: Maybe. But I think it`s a good idea. I think someone should because I remember when we went through the White House craziness, there was nobody. It just shut off, boom, nobody was there. So when you are going through something, it`s good to talk even if, you know, it is crazy. That`s how you get through it.
BEHAR: Yes.
Ok, thank you very much, ladies. And be sure to watch "Dina`s Party" on HGTV Saturday night at 10:00.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: After 28 years together Gene Simmons and Shannon Tweed are finally getting married on October 1st. Can I just say I hate a procrastinator?
Here to discuss this and other pop culture stories in the news are Perez Hilton, founder of PerezHilton.com and the author of "The Boy with Pink Hair"; Nancy Giles, social commentator and contributor to "CBS Sunday Morning" a great show; and comedienne Jessica Kirson. Hello everyone.
PEREZ HILTON, FOUNDER, PEREZHILTON.COM: Hello.
NANCY GILES, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Hello.
JESSICA KIRSON, COMEDIAN: Hello.
BEHAR: So Perez, you know 28 years and they were going together. What do you think?
HILTON: Well, I think that it`s interesting the timing of their wedding. They`re getting married just days before the new season of their reality show launches.
BEHAR: Oh -- oh that`s so cynical. Are you implying that there`s a connection between reality TV and reality?
HILTON: Well yes. As we`ve seen with the Kardashians and with other people, weddings can be big business. You know if you`ve been together that long -- well, actually, you got married recently. Why did you get married?
BEHAR: Not for anything material.
HILTON: Why, why?
BEHAR: Well, that`s another story. But I mean --
GILES: More sex.
BEHAR: I didn`t get married to keep my show on the air. My show`s on the air.
GILES: It could have boosted the ratings, we never know, right?
BEHAR: No, no, no, I could have -- my ratings are great. Right?
GILES: Of course they are. Of course, well, that`s a big plus for Gene Simmons and Shannon Tweed. I think when they announced that he was -- oh God, I can`t put the sentences together -- when he was proposing, that was the biggest ratings that the show had had all year, isn`t that right?
BEHAR: Really?
GILES: Yes. I mean they`re publicity whores. I hate to use horrible words like that.
BEHAR: But do you remember when the couple was on -- on my show.
GILES: She walked off right?
BEHAR: Ok and Shannon walked off. Let`s watch it so you have some material.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: How`s your back, Gene?
GENE SIMMONS, FORMER KISS MEMBER: My -- my back is good. My schmeckel not so much.
SHANNON TWEED: That`s very nice of you to joke about that.
SIMMONS: It`s a joke. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) where are you going, what are you doing?
TWEED: It`s so rude.
BEHAR: She`s done with you.
TWEED: It`s so rude of you to joke about it. You think it`s really funny.
SIMMONS: I was -- I was just joking because she`s a comedienne.
TWEED: Here put that on.
SIMMON: Thanks for the question.
BEHAR: Sorry, are you blaming it on me? Don`t put this on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He put it on me like I`m responsible.
GILES: But you didn`t show the part she couldn`t get out.
JESSICA KIRSON, COMEDIENNE: She was wandering --
BEHAR: I know, yes.
KIRSON: That was my favorite part. She was like, I don`t like this, and then she`s just wandering around.
BEHAR: She didn`t know how to get out.
KIRSON: Yes.
BEHAR: I know it was sad.
KIRSON: It was amazing.
BEHAR: I didn`t -- I didn`t see or I would have helped her. But the poor girl --
KIRSON: Yes, I would have let her just keep looking around.
GILES: Absolutely. No that was so contrived. Come on. Didn`t --
HILTON: Bad acting.
GILES: It was horrible acting.
BEHAR: I really have to tell you the truth. I couldn`t tell if it was real or not. I couldn`t tell. No, I just didn`t know. Did you?
HILTON: Watching this, it clearly --
BEHAR: She seemed really pissed off frankly. Because you know, he`s talking about all the women he`s had all these years. And --
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: He`s got a long tongue I remember.
KIRSON: Oh like she`s never heard that before. He talks about it all the time. I mean --
BEHAR: Somehow she was ticked off that day because he was making light of it. And he -- she didn`t like that.
GILES: He always does that.
BEHAR: Yes.
GILES: That`s like his thing. That and his big tongue, right?
BEHAR: And who`s going to get custody of the tongue if they get divorced?
GILES: Yes, I`m so -- I don`t know. I don`t know.
BEHAR: You know they`re married -- they got married three days before the next season premiered. You`re right about that. Ok.
HILTON: I wonder if they`re going to register for gifts.
BEHAR: That`s another conversation. I mean, I don`t have anybody -- nobody sends me gifts. I don`t want any gifts for anything. I have plenty -- I`m fine.
Do you think it`s tacky for big stars with a lot of money to register for gifts?
HILTON: I think they have an opportunity to raise money and awareness for a charity of their choice. I had my birthday party this year, and I raised money for Glisten which does great work with gay teenagers so -- because I don`t need gifts. Unless it`s a date.
GILES: I need them. I need them, so you can send them to me.
BEHAR: Well you know FYI, Sherri Shepherd who just got married, she did not ask for any gifts.
HILTON: Good for her.
GILES: I think it`s very tacky, to be honest with you. I really do.
KIRSON: It is tacky.
HILTON: I don`t know if it`s tacky. I talked to a girlfriend of mine, and a girlfriend of mine said, you know, any woman, famous or not, is -- can do whatever she wants on her wedding day. And that`s a very special day for her. And if she wants gifts, she just wants to experience opening presents, then let her.
GILES: Oh, that`s gross.
KIRSON: Yes, well they can be messy --
GILES: That`s just gross.
BEHAR: It depends. If you`re a young person and you need the stuff, that`s fine. But if you`re --
GILES: If you need stuff but at a certain age, you don`t need anything.
BEHAR: Yes.
GILES: And you`re the one who can buy what you want the best.
BEHAR: Right.
GILES: So it`s just selfish and greedy.
BEHAR: Ok, let`s talk about Chaz Bono for a second and also one of my pals. "Dancing with the Stars" this season, he`s on that along with our very own Nancy Grace. I`m glad I`m not judging that one. I love Nancy, but who wants to be Bruno that day?
What do you think about all that? And poor Chaz is getting all this hate mail and stuff.
KIRSON: Well, of course Chaz is getting hate mail. Who wouldn`t -- I mean of course -- of course he is.
BEHAR: Why?
KIRSON: He gets -- he would get hate mail no matter what. But this is an opportunity for people to attack him more. And I think it`s very important for him to be on the show.
GILES: Absolutely.
KIRSON: For -- for teenagers who are going through the same issues. Who is -- it`s a very high rate of suicide. It`s very important for people to see this. And if people have an issue with it, it`s like they`re afraid their daughter`s going to watch and be like, "Mom, you know what, from watching this show, now I want a penis." Like it`s just ridiculous.
HILTON: And not to make light of the situation, but I think poor Carson Kressley is upset. Nobody is talking about him being on the show. He could have been the token gay.
BEHAR: Yes.
HILTON: Now there`s a gay and a transgender.
BEHAR: He -- Carson was the second gay person to ever be on.
(CROSSTALK)
HILTON: After Lance Bass.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Lance Bass was first. Chaz was on a long time.
GILES: I think it`s -- and I think it`s wonderful. I mean, they`ve done stunt casting in the past that nobody cared about. But I mean, not only is Chaz kind of an inspirational story, but like most people except for Bristol Palin, he`ll probably lose weight when he does the show. She gained.
BEHAR: But they`re saying --
KIRSON: Can you imagine if he gains 30 pounds?
GILES: No, that would be -- that would be --
KIRSON: That would be -- if he just ate sandwiches the whole time he danced.
BEHAR: Yes I do too, I think it`s fine.
GILES: Yes.
BEHAR: They`re saying that it`s confusing to children. What`s really confusing is where they found all those heterosexual dancers.
HILTON: Allegedly heterosexual.
GILES: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But I mean, he could be a role model for kids who are struggling, you know.
KIRSON: Yes. Of course.
GILES: Do you know what else? He`s going to be on a very mainstream show. I think that`s what threatens people more than anything. That he, by being on that show, might be sort of accepted by people. That`s where the parents I think are really scared. Let it be.
BEHAR: Yes. Maybe they are. Yes.
As if a person`s going to wake up, like you say, and I want to be a transgender.
Uf1: It doesn`t work that way.
GILES: Just because of the way he dips someone.
BEHAR: Dips. Ok. We`ll have more pop culture when we come back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, "Rescue Me`s" Denis Leary shares his thoughts on the 10th anniversary of September 11.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my lovely panel.
Now, it was announced today that Eddie Murphy will be the host of next year`s Oscars. This is known as the James Franco correction. All right. Now Eddie is a legendary comedian. But it`s been years since he performed on SNL or did stand-up. You think he`s got the chops?
HILTON: And I also think it`s been years since he had a big hit movie.
GILES: His movies aren`t so good but I think I`m so happy for him. I think he`s going to really knock it out of the ballpark. And I just personally wish I had more attractive feet because I`d be in the running for his love.
BEHAR: His love --
GILES: Yes, he loves like beautiful feet on women. I`m a size 11; I got like working girl`s feet.
(CROSSTALK)
HILTON: Well, you could look at Quentin Tarantino. Tarantino loves the feet, too.
GILES: Really?
KIRSON: Yes, I think he`s very -- I mean he`s amazing, and I`m sure he`ll do a great job. But he hasn`t been on stage, as you know, Joy as a comedian. He`d better do an open mike or two.
BEHAR: Yes. He needs to practice.
HILTON: He won`t be doing his own material. There`s tons of writers there.
BEHAR: But you know, when he was nominated in 2007 for "Dream Girls" and he didn`t win, he stormed off the set.
GILES: He left.
BEHAR: Touchy, touchy, prima donna. What about that? They won`t laugh at his jokes, he`ll leave?
GILES: I know. Well, there was an awkward moment where his seat was empty. They didn`t get a seat filler there in enough time because he just stormed off.
BEHAR: Yes.
KIRSON: Oh God.
BEHAR: Now, what you do think about the fact that Jerry Lewis was not on the Labor Day telethon? They did it for six hours without him. They raised more money than when he was there for 24 hours.
KIRSON: I mean really, he`s falling apart. Let`s be honest. I have a thing about him, obviously, because of what he said about female comics. I immediately --
BEHAR: What did he say?
KIRSON: He said that women aren`t funny. So you know, I use today to watch him all the time when I was little. I loved that -- all that stuff, you know.
BEHAR: We all imitated him.
HILTON: He`s also said not-so-nice things about the gays, too.
GILES: Right.
BEHAR: Yes. What did he say about the gays?
HILTON: I don`t remember specifics.
KIRSON: He said they`re not funny.
HILTON: Well, if that`s all he said, then he`s right. I`m kidding.
GILES: I think he`s ok with the blacks, I don`t know. I guess he palled around --
HILTON: I`m sure he didn`t like them either.
GILES: Yes, I know.
BEHAR: He criticized reality TV shows, "American Idol" and "The Bigger Loser". So maybe it was time for him to take a break.
KIRSON: I love that he`s criticizing -- he`s criticizing that people are losing weights.
GILES: Well, he raised billions for muscular dystrophy. I mean that -- you kind of can`t forget that.
HILTON: In the context of that --
KIRSON: That`s right.
GILES: He did. He really did.
HILTON: In the context of that, it`s unfortunate that it all ended with so much drama with him in the association and -- the statements about why he was not coming back and then he was coming back.
KIRSON: Fisticuffs.
HILTON: Yes.
BEHAR: Remember, he a dramatic ending with Dean Martin, too. Maybe he`s just like that, you know.
GILES: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean I love Jerry. I grew up with Jerry. Come on, Jerry Lewis, Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis.
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: I know, I know.
BEHAR: The greatest. We`ll never see that again.
HILTON: Ladies.
BEHAR: Why are you mad at me because I got married?
GILES: Because you weren`t married, it really gave me something to hang on to as a somewhat older woman who`s not married. I was like, but Joy Behar`s not married, she`s cool. Now you went and did it and now I`m a freak again.
BEHAR: I would like to apologize to all those women out there --
GILES: Thank you. Will you? We were rooting for you.
HILTON: You`ve still got Goldie Hawn.
BEHAR: That`s right. Goldie Hawn. That`s true.
BEHAR: And Susan -- no, they`re not together.
Thanks, guys. And to see when Jessica Kirson -- I was going to say Simpson -- Jessica Kirson is performing near you, go to jessicakirson.com.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", a brand new battle over the Kim Kardashian sex tape. Tonight, is the plot to banish Kim K.`s video romp backfiring? We`ll see it at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Denis Leary is a comedian, an actor, an author, and a wise ass. He co-created and stars in the hit series "Rescue Me," which airs its final episode tomorrow night on FX. Please welcome Denis Leary.
(APPLAUSE)
DENIS LEARY, COMEDIAN: Is wise ass in my official bio? I don`t think so. Hey --
BEHAR: It`s on Wikipedia.
LEARY: You got married.
BEHAR: I did. So?
LEARY: Well, I mean, that`s a huge --
BEHAR: So what, who cares?
LEARY: No, the whole world cares.
BEHAR: I don`t know why.
LEARY: No matter what I`m about to talk about with you that you think is planned to talk about, the biggest news we could talk about is the fact that you got married.
BEHAR: No, no, it`s not that big of news. It`s just that when you`re old as I am -- and you`re catching up, I have to say.
LEARY: Yes, I am. But I`ve been married for 22 years.
BEHAR: I`ve been dating for 29.
LEARY: Yeah, dating. So now you guys have been living together for - -
BEHAR: No, only since 2001. Before that, we were separate -- he lived in the Bronx, I lived in Manhattan.
LEARY: That little cough after you said that -- that speaks volumes.
BEHAR: No, it`s about being nervous about the topic, a little bit, because I don`t know what really to say about it. We decided to get married. I don`t really understand why everyone is so interested in it. I kept it a secret --
LEARY: By the way, I`m interested because I`ve known you long enough that I actually know this man.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: So I`m interested at which point it turned from this is all great and everything`s fine to let`s get married.
BEHAR: Well, the -- I told this already today on "The View," but I`ll tell you partly again. It was really when you realize that gays could not get married, and, therefore, they could not be -- wait, listen. Why are you smirking already?
LEARY: Because you`re connecting it to gay marriage. Like --
BEHAR: I`ll tell you why. Because I know these two lesbians. The one was sick, the other one could not go in the room and could not do the - - you know --
LEARY: Yes, right, civil rights. The legal rights.
BEHAR: Yes. Unless they were married. She had to pretend that she was her sister. Well, that made me think, that could happen to me. I`ll have to pretend that I`m his mother. And --
LEARY: And that scared you.
BEHAR: And that really scared me. And so I said, you know what, I realize why gays want to get married. It`s not just civil unions.
LEARY: No, no, no, yes.
BEHAR: And then there`s the estate taxes and stuff like that if you die. I mean, it`s all --
LEARY: OK. Can I ask you this question, because I think all of America -- maybe you answered this question already on "The View." So who came home and said to whom, let`s do it, let`s pull the trigger? Was it you or was it him?
BEHAR: I think it was me. Because he actually would be happy to have done it a while ago. And I wasn`t. So now I said, listen, that`s enough with this. We`re too happy. Let`s get married.
LEARY: I mean, having been married for 22 years, it`s -- it`s good to be with somebody that was with you before --
BEHAR: When they knew you.
LEARY: When I had nothing.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: And it`s also, as you get older, if it lasts and it stays together, it becomes really -- and once the kids leave, it becomes a really great thing. If you`re lucky, you know.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: I`ve been lucky.
BEHAR: Well, your wife`s a great girl.
LEARY: Great girl.
BEHAR: She helps you -- she writes with you and does her own thing, too. Right?
LEARY: She`s very smart and beautiful. And God knows what she saw in me.
BEHAR: What about your character on "Rescue Me," has renewed his vows.
LEARY: Yes.
BEHAR: I understand.
LEARY: Yes.
BEHAR: Would you want to do that? Would you do that?
LEARY: With my wife?
BEHAR: No, with your dog.
LEARY: I`ve actually done it with one of my dogs. I don`t think my wife is interested in that. You know, we -- we kind of -- listen, there`s a natural process -- I don`t know. I`m speaking for my wife now, which I shouldn`t be doing.
But when the kids left, you know, everybody warns you. Actually, a doctor friend of mine even said to me, when the -- my daughter was getting ready to leave, which is a year ago now, to go to college, and you start to hear people whose kids left, you know, especially guys, say stuff like, you know, when the daughter goes away, when the last kid goes away, watch out. Sometime the wives go crazy.
And this doctor friend of mine, he said, you know, you should really be prepared. I`m like, for what? And so on the way home from dropping my daughter off, my wife was crying. And I was, you know, I was emotionally upset myself. And then I started to think, like she`s not stopping the crying, and she`s talking a little crazy. Is she going to kill me now? On the way home, like she`s going to kill me and dump me at the Vince Lombardi rest area? Is that what`s going to happen to me? So -- but it worked out. So I think that`s a natural --
BEHAR: The empty nest syndrome.
LEARY: Yes. But that -- that week when you go home and you spend it, when the kids are gone and you face off against each other, I think is a natural either renewal of the vows or --
BEHAR: Or a divorce.
LEARY: Or a divorce.
BEHAR: That`s what a lot of people --
LEARY: Or a murder. When we got home that night from dropping off my daughter, I mean, I`m sure I`m not the only guy that was in this circumstance ever, where you just go like, you know, what`s going to happen now?
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: And so fortunately for us, we rediscovered that, you know, we get along really great. We have a lot of the same interests. But she`s also busy, and I`m busy which is --
BEHAR: That`s good.
LEARY: I think that`s one of the keys.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: I don`t trust these people that are, A, always happy together, B, always together, and C, do everything together.
BEHAR: Why not? Why don`t you trust them?
LEARY: They creep me out.
BEHAR: Why, it could be possible. Is it not possible?
LEARY: I don`t know. I think there`s something --
BEHAR: You think they`re lying?
LEARY: I think they`re killing people and hiding the bodies under the porch is what I think. They`re very creepy people. Don`t you think? People that are happy all the time to begin with? Forget married people --
BEHAR: First of all, nobody`s happy all the time. Joan Rivers said one time the best thing. Someone said to her, are you happy, and she said, I`m happy, I`m not happy. And I thought that pretty much described it.
LEARY: But there are weirdos out there that are happy all the time. A lot of them talk to God.
BEHAR: Well, yes. What about the people who are running for office, for the presidency now? A lot of them are talking to God.
LEARY: Michele Bachmann talks to God.
BEHAR: Is God talking back to them? That`s what scares me.
LEARY: George Bush talked to God.
BEHAR: He did, too. But that`s praying.
LEARY: Glenn Beck talked to God.
BEHAR: Isn`t that praying when they talk to God? Isn`t that what they mean by I talk to God?
LEARY: I don`t know what they mean. God`s never spoken to me. Not that I deserve to be spoken to by God. I did 12 years in the Catholic Church and pretty much stole everything I could get my hands on. But I did not do well in that church. But it freaks me out a little bit. Glenn Beck especially. People like that or George Bush where they get sober and they stop doing blow and drinking, and all of a sudden God talks to them. Listen, I knew a lot of blow-heads. I was in the comedy world, OK. And I hope God`s not talking to those guys.
BEHAR: I hope not.
LEARY: But God doesn`t talk to everybody. Doesn`t talk to me.
BEHAR: No. Let`s talk about your show a little, because "Rescue Me" is in its seventh and final season. Let`s look at a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, Tom, go!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll be fine. Trust me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That is the tease to the series finale. Are you -- do you die?
LEARY: I can`t tell you. That`s tomorrow night.
BEHAR: I know.
LEARY: Yes.
BEHAR: I hope you don`t die.
LEARY: I`m so evil, I want to tell you right now, tell like whoever`s watching the show and ruin it for everybody. That`s me. But I --
BEHAR: Don`t tell.
LEARY: I would really get into a lot of trouble. I don`t want to ruin it for people.
BEHAR: But were you in that building?
LEARY: Yes. My character--
BEHAR: So you died.
LEARY: All the--
BEHAR: It`s obvious, isn`t it?
LEARY: All the main guys in the show are in that fire. So that`s how it ended.
BEHAR: Oh, everybody dies.
LEARY: Yes, everybody`s in there. It`s one of the options.
BEHAR: That`s an option. What`s the other option? Somebody has a water hose that takes the fire out? I don`t think so.
LEARY: I can`t tell you.
BEHAR: Well --
LEARY: You`d have to watch the show.
BEHAR: The -- the show is very politically incorrect, which we enjoyed that so much. You know, the -- there was domestic abuse, womanizing, drinking, there were racial jokes. Which part of that will you miss most? Will you miss the womanizing, probably that`s the most fabulous to miss, right?
LEARY: The fab -- you know what I`ll really miss is that we wrote -- there`s a lot of black humor in the show, obviously, and that comes from the firehouse culture and dealing with the emotional things that they have to deal with in terms of their job. And the busting chops that goes on in the kitchen. That`s the thing really -- a lot of the things that we wrote were always made better by the actors. But especially in the firehouse kitchen, when we had like six or seven of the actors playing firefighters, we would go in there with three or four cameras. And we would shoot, it would be like a scene in the theater. Everybody could potentially be on camera at any given moment. And we would take what we had written, which was quite often funny and not politically correct, and the guys would also improvise within the framework. And I think that was one of the things the fans loved about the show. But anything went in that kitchen.
BEHAR: Do you -- do you think -- you think you`re a fireman, don`t you? You actually believe you`re a firefighter at this point, don`t you?
LEARY: Can I just say one thing --
BEHAR: Go ahead.
LEARY: If there`s a fake fire in this studio in the next five minutes --
BEHAR: He`ll put it out.
LEARY: I could put it out.
BEHAR: OK. We`ll have more with firefighter Denis Leary in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In the years after 9/11, TV and film wasn`t sure how to handle the events of that day. Denis Leary`s hit show "Rescue Me" embraced it, telling the story of New York City firefighters and their lives in the aftermath of 9/11. So we`re here right now with co-creator Denis Leary.
So, Denis, everybody was avoiding doing 9/11 shows, you know, at that time because it was really touchy. But you embraced it.
LEARY: Yes.
BEHAR: Why did you feel that you could take that risk?
LEARY: My cousin was a firefighter in my hometown of Worcester, Massachusetts. He was killed in a warehouse fire up there in December of `99, along with five other firefighters. One of whom was also a guy that we grew up with, who was in my class in school, Tommy Spencer (ph). And also it was in our old neighborhood, and a lot of the firefighters, the guys I grew up with and went to school with, a lot of them became cops and firemen. So when they were looking for those bodies in that particular tragedy, I mean, there must have been at least 40 of the kids I grew up with who were firefighters.
BEHAR: Unbelievable.
LEARY: So I was kind of surrounded by that. And one of my oldest friends here in New York is a firefighter for the FDNY. So I wanted to do a movie at first about it. I didn`t want to do it about the Worcester fire because that was too close to my -- my own heart and my family. And I was toying with the idea. And I was talking to Peter Tolan, who was my partner on this TV show called "The Job" that we did and saying let`s do a movie. And the more we talked about it and the more we thought about it, the more we realized it would be a terrific television series. And we decided to just write the script and see how it came out.
So we wrote it, and I don`t think we really expected anybody to want to take it on. And at the time, USA and HBO were interested in it, but FX was a brand new network. They had the show "The Shield"--
BEHAR: Yeah, great show, "The Shield."
LEARY: Great show, yes. So I mean, in retrospect, I`m so glad that we took the meeting with them and met them because -- I just can`t say enough about John Landgraf, the head of that network, and the people, his marketing people.
BEHAR: And it was a risk that actually did --
LEARY: It was great.
BEHAR: Paid off.
LEARY: And creatively, they let us do whatever we wanted to. And they were great guides in terms of how they wanted the story to be told. I can`t say enough about their marketing department. I mean, they --
BEHAR: They`re good.
LEARY: Yes. They were great.
BEHAR: You know, the last episode that you shot, you shot that a while ago.
LEARY: Yes.
BEHAR: So now since then, President Obama has managed to capture Osama bin Laden. Did you regret that you couldn`t do an episode on that?
LEARY: No, because the finale, the final two episodes of the show, really deal with at one point we go down to ground zero in present day, even though we shot it a year ago. The guys and Tommy Gavin, my character, it`s more about loss and grief for them and survivor`s guilt. And how they feel -- and we actually discuss revenge.
So the thing about revenge is it doesn`t really replace the people that have been taken away.
BEHAR: That`s the problem.
LEARY: Yes. I don`t know, my partner, Peter Tolan, said if we had known that Osama was going to be captured and killed, knowing "Rescue Me," we probably would have done a page of Osama jokes. We weren`t really -- we weren`t after that. We were more interested in how the guys deal with ten years later, you know, and the public, you know, celebration of it, you know.
BEHAR: What do you think about that? I mean, Obama, President Obama taking a lot of hits lately, a lot of hits. His poll numbers are down.
LEARY: Yep.
BEHAR: People are mad at him. And yet he doesn`t seem to get any kind of, you know, any kind of real great credit for -- for killing Osama bin Laden. Also, the way he handled Libya. It`s interesting, he`s good at that. And yet people are still -- they don`t want him in there anymore, apparently.
LEARY: Well, I mean, people -- it`s all about the jobs and the economy. And I just like the fact that he`s not coming out and saying that God`s talking to him.
BEHAR: No, no. He --
LEARY: That`s always a good sign.
BEHAR: He`s a rational person.
LEARY: Yes. He`s a rational person.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: So you know, I have no crystal ball. I like what he`s doing, and I like the way he`s handled himself so far. Obviously, with this many people out of work, that`s a big problem.
BEHAR: I think that 9/11, you know, was a tipping point for the country, we all know that. And it really had a lot of ripple effect, you know, in the economy, too. So this is what the problems are we have now. You know --
LEARY: You`re talking to the wrong guy. I flunked math twice in high school. So --
BEHAR: OK, we`re not --
LEARY: The only reason I`m here is because the nuns wanted me out of the school. So they basically gave me D`s so I would get out of there. But I know nothing about math.
BEHAR: That`s right. But your kids were small. How old -- your latest one went to college. Your kids were small on 9/11.
LEARY: Yes, my son was 11, and -- 10, about to turn 11. And my daughter was -- was 8. Yes, they were very small.
BEHAR: And so how did you explain to an 8-year-old what happened?
LEARY: You know, it wasn`t easy. They were sent home from school that day. They were up in the country. And, you know, that`s such a devastating event and it affects so many people. And if you remember, there was at least four or five days before any kids went back to school. And --
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: And when they did, the teachers spoke to them about it. But - -
BEHAR: Were they scared?
LEARY: They were very scared. Yes. They didn`t really -- it`s hard for kids to really grasp why, and you know, you try to protect them as much as you can, but you can`t, because it was everywhere.
BEHAR: Right.
LEARY: And in my kids` case, they grew up in New York City when they were small. So they knew those buildings. And they had -- they had been through the thing in Worcester with my cousin dying, and they`d been to that funeral mass. They were aware of death then.
BEHAR: It`s a lot.
LEARY: Yes. It was a lot.
BEHAR: For an 8-year-old. My God.
LEARY: Yes. Tough time.
BEHAR: You know, you tweeted something that was interesting. You said firefighters who worked at ground zero, 19 percent more likely to get cancer and 100 percent more likely not to get invited to 9/11 memorial next week. Now, you know, so go ahead, what do you say about that?
LEARY: I tweeted another tweet, which was that the firefighters were not invited to the memorial next -- this coming week.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: But you know, they weren`t invited down on that day. But they showed up anyways.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEARY: Listen, I understand the numbers, I understand that there`s going to be a lot of people down there. I just find it very hard to believe you can`t find some way -- not just with the firefighters but with the police, as well, to have --
BEHAR: The first responders.
LEARY: To have those guys represented.
BEHAR: Well, Bloomberg, I was talking to Mayor Bloomberg of New York City. And he was saying the first day is for the families.
LEARY: I understand.
BEHAR: Then day two we`ll have everybody else. And we will have a ceremony for the first responders. So does that sort of alleviate the --
LEARY: It alleviates the pain to a certain extent. I still think, and maybe they`ve changed it, I don`t know. I hope I`m up to date on this. But I think you could at least take a sampling of guys, whether you want to go with chiefs or lieutenants or a mixture of firefighters and officers, and have them down there, you know.
BEHAR: Yes. Right.
LEARY: You know, I just -- and the same thing with the police. I mean, those guys -- I think there`s a kind of a thing in this country that happens which I don`t understand, where the military and our first responders are supposedly appreciated when they show up to save all of us - -
BEHAR: When they`re giving.
LEARY: When they`re giving. And then as soon as it becomes their service is done, they have to fight for their health rights, they have to fight for the right to be represented, they have to fight for pay raises. I just --
BEHAR: I think it`s one of the disgraces of the country, frankly.
LEARY: It`s a disgrace every single time it happens. And the only reason that health bill for the people who were down at ground zero got passed is because Jon Stewart did that episode of his show that kind of shamed them into it.
BEHAR: Bravo, Jon Stewart.
LEARY: Which is astonishing.
BEHAR: I love it when comedians make a difference.
LEARY: Yeah, me too.
BEHAR: OK, we`re going to be back with some more from Denis Leary. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back with Denis Leary. Tell me about the firefighter foundation that you--
LEARY: Leary Firefighters Foundation, www.learyfirefighters.org. We raise money for departments all over the country, including New York. You can specifically send money for the New York department. And we build and buy equipment and training facilities for these departments. In New Orleans we bought them 16 boats. We rebuilt 33 fire houses. Here we have the first high rise simulator in the history of the FDNY, which has been up and running about three and a half, four years now.
So you give us the money. The money literally gets spent within six months. It`s an ongoing process, because every fire department in America, every urban fire department needs help financially. And so it`s something that`s very dear to my heart, and people respond -- every time I mention it I get more money, because people love firefighters.
BEHAR: OK. That`s good. You want to say it again, the?
LEARY: Learyfirefighters.org. Do you even have to say www? You don`t need to do it anymore.
BEHAR: No. That`s so 2010.
LEARY: That`s really it.
BEHAR: Now, "Rescue Me," your show, it was a drama, but it had a lot of funny things in it. What`s your take on humor and 9/11?
LEARY: Well, I remember, after it happened, I had already scheduled an event -- something I do every year for the Cam Neeley foundation, which helps to cure cancer. We do a thing called Comics Come Home up in Boston. It`s in its seventeenth year now. I forget what year it was then, but we had a show scheduled about three weeks after 9/11, an annual show, and we were all a little concerned, comedians coming from all over the country. And that night -- so it`s three weeks later in front of 5,000 people in this theater in Boston. I opened up and I did a bunch of Osama bin Laden material. And then after me Lenny Clarke (ph) did some. And I think the only person who didn`t that night was Steven Wright, because he doesn`t do that kind of stuff in his act.
The jokes killed. They -- the audience exploded. And the reasoning of course we know as comedians is that people came to laugh that night, and it was probably the first time they had laughed about 9/11.
BEHAR: It`s a relief.
LEARY: I remember a network executive saying to me at the time or a movie executive saying this is going to alter the way people feel about comedies. And I was like, what are you talking about? They`re going to need to laugh more than ever. If anything, they are going to be looking to laugh. And he was full of fear. But the live audience that night was just -- it was unbelievable.
BEHAR: Well, the pain.
(CROSSTALK)
LEARY: That`s what we`re supposed to do.
BEHAR: Yes. We always try to make our mothers laugh.
LEARY: I know. That`s how it starts, right?
BEHAR: Denis, I can`t tell you how lovely it`s been to see you.
LEARY: So this is done.
BEHAR: I`m done, yes.
LEARY: So now when -- is there going to be a wedding reception?
BEHAR: When`s the divorce?
LEARY: When`s the divorce? Is there going to be some kind of a party or something?
BEHAR: No. We did that already.
LEARY: You did?
BEHAR: We had a small party, a little bit, you know, a dinner. Not a big deal. That`s enough. Right? I`m not into that whole thing. I did it already when I was 22. Now I`m 42 and I don`t have to -- shut up!
The final episode of "Rescue Me" airs tomorrow night on FX. Thanks for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
