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Joy Behar Page
Sheen`s Roast; It`s Always Sunny with Danny DeVito; Interview with Florence Henderson
Aired September 20, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, more controversy as Chaz Bono makes his debut on "Dancing with the Stars". A TV shrink compares Chaz to a heroin addict. Joy sorts it all out.
And last night marked Ashton Kutcher`s premiere on "Two and a Half Men". Will the show survive without Charlie Sheen?
Speaking of Sheen, he was roasted and Joy wants to know, are any jokes deemed too filthy in that setting.
Plus, Florence Henderson dishes on her "Brady Bunch" backstage drama and her wild nights off-camera.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Last night was the much-anticipated roast of Charlie Sheen and everyone was there. Charlie, Brooke Mueller, Mike Tyson, Steve O (ph); I didn`t know if I was watching Comedy Central or "Celebrity Rehab". Charlie really took a lot of shots.
Watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Despite all those years of abusing your lungs, your kidneys, your liver, the only thing you`ve had removed is your kids. Your marriage to Denise Richards, it was kind of like her Vietnam because she was constantly afraid of being killed by Charlie.
JEFFREY ROSS, COMEDY CENTRAL: There`s no denying the fact that Mike Tyson had the hardest hitting right hook in history. Your opponents spent more time bleeding in the corner than Charlie`s ex-wives. Too soon? Too soon?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here to discuss this and other pop culture stories in the news are Nick Lachey, singer and the host of the "Sing-off" on NBC; Kim Serafin, senior editor of "In Touch Weekly"; and Jay Thomas actor and Sirius XM radio host.
So Jay, is it ok to do jokes about domestic violence and child custody on a roast?
JAY THOMAS, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Yes. It is. It`s fine. It`s fun. It`s perfect.
BEHAR: You have no qualms about it?
THOMAS: None whatsoever. Look, we live in this huge scumbag world now. And I am embracing the scumbag world because I want to make a living. So to say that it`s bad puts you in an age inappropriate thing and, you know, I`d have to stop dyeing my hair and act my age, so, yes, it`s fine.
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: You know what; somebody ought to stab somebody in one of the roasts. Brooke Mueller was there last night. If that isn`t the height of -- and I don`t mean this sexually, of prostitution, then there no definition of it. She sued her husband, they called the cops, the kids get taken away and there she is with the ex-husband that did all this stuff to her? They threw her -- you know, somebody threw some -- she`s the definition of dragging a 10-dollar bill through a trailer park. I mean, you know, you run out and you get the money, you know, you get the thing.
NICK LACHEY, HOST, "SING-OFF": It`s her roast tonight.
THOMAS: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes. Why don`t you just roast Brooke Mueller tonight.
THOMAS: Didn`t you find that to be --
BEHAR: I thought it was odd that she was there. But then there is a dollar sign around her.
THOMAS: I mean I doubt if I beat up my wife, she would show up at my bachelor party for my new wedding or whatever. That`s what it would be like.
BEHAR: Well, you don`t know that because a lot of domestic abuse people do not realize they`re actually in the --
THOMAS: I think she realized she had the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) beaten out of her. I think she pretty much knows she did.
BEHAR: Are any of the jokes worse than what Charlie has actually done in real life? Let`s face it.
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": That`s exactly what it is. I mean what can you say about Charlie that he hasn`t already said about himself and that he already hasn`t made fun of himself about?
It`s really hard for these roasters because you had to narrow it down. Do you focus on hookers? On the drugs? Do you focus on him dying early? Do you focus on the custody? What do you focus on if you`re a roaster?
BEHAR: It`s basically a roast bonanza to have a subject like him. You know what I mean. But Nick, you didn`t watch it?
LACHEY: I didn`t.
BEHAR: But it was televised. Do you ever watch these roasts on TV, Nick?
LACHEY: Yes. I do. You know, I think it`s gotten to a point now where it`s kind of what`s expected. I think humor, if you look at comedy over the years, I mean comedy itself has gotten to a lot raunchier place. So when people tune in and expect to see comedy in this kind of setting, I think we can expect that it`s going to be as far as people could be allowed to take it.
BEHAR: Ok. So let`s see. Because Amy Schumer made a joke about the death of "Jackass" star, Ryan Dunn. Ok, let`s watch that.
AMY SCHUMER, COMEDIAN: I`m sorry about the death of your co-star, Ryan Dunn. I know you must have been thinking it could have been me and I know we were all thinking, why wasn`t it. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Now, there`s Steve-O, whoever he is -- I don`t even know who he is. I thought that was my husband`s name, Steve-O. He was not laughing, as you can see. So maybe that crossed the line, a guy drops dead, now you make a joke about him being dead and saying that you hope -- wish it would have been him.
SERAFIN: Well, he probably would have been more upset to hear you don`t even know who he is, I would think.
BEHAR: That`s true.
SERAFIN: Right. I mean it`s publicity.
THOMAS: Do you know what Steve-O did last night?
BEHAR: No.
THOMAS: Mike Tyson sat in a chair and he held his fist out and Steve- O, who you feel sorry for, ran into Mike Tyson`s fist. These guys have tried to kill themselves, one of them successfully does it and you think it`s a bad joke. They`re trying to kill themselves, so when they do die, that`s success.
BEHAR: That is a very weird way of interpreting it.
THOMAS: I don`t think so.
SERAFIN: He even tried to be funny. He kept running into Mike Tyson`s fist until his nose was bleeding.
BEHAR: Well, I`m not --
THOMAS: So I guess he got over it. Right? Whatever sadness he felt, he got over it.
BEHAR: You know what? Charlie took it very well, I thought. He sat there nicely. Is he trying to redo his image a little bit now by being a player and not so hostile, as he has been?
LACHEY: I think he looks great in all this. I think he`s obviously, you know, come from the ashes so to speak and now he seems to be saying all the right things and handling himself in the right way. I thought he handled the roast from what I saw brilliantly, he looks like the hero in all this.
BEHAR: Yes. He did.
THOMAS: I think they made a mistake by hiring Ashton Kutcher. The little boy --
BEHAR: Let`s get to that.
THOMAS: The little boy is the one that they should have focused on in the show. And we can talk about it.
BEHAR: Well, I want to show you because -- go ahead Kim.
SERAFIN: I was going to say, you know, Charlie Sheen is on kind of this apology tour. He`s been, you know, trying to make amends. He came out at the Emmys. He said that he wished everyone well. He even tweeted last night that he was watching the "Two and a Half Men" episode. That he was laughing. He thought it was really funny.
So he`s trying to make amends. He also has his new show that he`s trying to sell "Anger Management". So, he knows he needs to kind of turn his life around and get people to change their opinion of him.
BEHAR: Right. But they were a little nasty on the show against him on "Two and a Half Men". So let`s watch. He was roasted and then he was killed off. Ok. You thought you had a bad day, Jay.
Charlie`s character --
THOMAS: I`ve been killed on TV a lot of times.
BEHAR: -- Charlie Harper was killed when his girlfriend pushed him in front of a subway in Paris, I believe he was hit by the number neuf train. Let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know this is a very sad day for all of us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speak for yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. I understand that some of you have mixed feelings. But I think we can all agree that Charlie lived life to its fullest and gave it everything he had.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gave me herpes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chlamydia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vaginal warts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. As you may know, Chuck Lorre who is the creator of the show, had a big blow out with Charlie which is what led to his getting off the show. Is this a little payback from Chuck Lorre to make him live that there. They kill him with a train, they abuse him in the entire show? What do you think Kim?
SERAFIN: Yes. I think nobody expected less from the things that Charlie said about Chuck Lorre and about his family. These are kind of nice things, the fact that he only mentioned sexually transmitted diseases and drugs once or twice.
You thought it would be the entire episode. And then you mentioned ashes, Charlie`s ashes fell all over the floor when Ashton Kutcher entered. So that was kind of a way of sticking it to Charlie Sheen.
BEHAR: Really? And violent death also. Jay, payback?
THOMAS: Chuck Lorre produced Roseanne`s show and who was the nutcase --
BEHAR: Brett Butler.
THOMAS: Brett Butler -- wait a minute, Cybil Shepherd and now Charlie Sheen. He might need some major therapy. Why does he keep going to work with these people?
Here`s what they missed. They didn`t need Ashton Kutcher. They buried Charlie. The little boy who will never act again but he`s very rich -- he shakes. Then we realize the ghost of Charlie, his uncle, has gone into him. He becomes a drug addict, a drunk and a womanizer. That`s the show.
LACHEY: See, I would have watched that.
THOMAS: Yes. That`s exactly right.
BEHAR: You`re saying Ashton Kutcher, forget about him.
THOMAS: Three weeks from now, that`s a sitcom. Why is Charlie laughing? They paid him $25 million and he gets $10 million a year during the reruns for the next decade. They`re all working for him. I`d be watching and laughing and tweeting and doing a couple of lines, too. I would have been having a big time.
BEHAR: You should know that 28 million people watched the show last night.
THOMAS: The money is going to Charlie Sheen.
SERAFIN: Ashton Kutcher -- let me say -- he actually did a good job.
THOMAS: Very good.
SERAFIN: He had a lot to step into. He took off his shirt, he was naked for half the show. So that`s going to get a lot of people coming in.
BEHAR: You want to watch it -- you want to watch something with Ashton, they introduce Ashton?
THOMAS: Sure.
BEHAR: Go ahead. Let`s watch that. Ashton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess now is as good a time as any.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not cleaning him up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: And the crowd goes wild. So Kim, how do you think Ashton did? Despite what he`s saying -- he`s putting the knife right in Ashton`s back.
THOMAS: No, no he is -- he did fine.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, but you don`t like the story line.
THOMAS: I like the little boy --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The little boy, yes.
THOMAS: -- he needs some acting. He needs a shot.
BEHAR: Ok all right. Now, one more story.
Last night was the season premiere of "Dancing with the Stars." And even though Nancy Grace and David Arquette lit up the crowd, all eyes were on Chaz Bono.
Let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHAZ BONO ON "DANCING WITH THE STARS")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He dances like a guy.
THOMAS: I thought it was Kevin Meany when I first turned it on. Can I say one thing please?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Meany dances like a girl, ok?
THOMAS: I respect -- I respect that you can do whatever you want in this country.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
THOMAS: And -- and Chaz Bono has done it. But if you stick a branch up my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) I`m not a tree, all right?
BEHAR: What?
THOMAS: I`m a guy, ok.
BEHAR: What are you from the arbor society?
THOMAS: No, I`m just saying, you -- you can`t add or detract things and you change who you are. You could grow a penis, I`m not going to call you Al. I mean, it`s just not going to happen.
BEHAR: Why not? Why not?
THOMAS: That -- I`m never going to forget that it was a girl.
BEHAR: No, I don`t agree with that. I think he`s a guy now.
THOMAS: Wow.
BEHAR: As far as I`m concerned, Chaz is a guy.
LACHEY: There`s a lot of facial hair there from what I`m seeing.
BEHAR: Well, he`s taking hormones now.
LACHEY: Yes.
SERAFIN: I thought he did a great job.
BEHAR: Yes.
THOMAS: Wow.
BEHAR: Ok, thank you guys very much.
THOMAS: Thank you.
BEHAR: And you can catch Nick Lachey on "The Sing-off" Mondays at 8:00 p.m. on NBC.
We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next, Danny DeVito drops by to talk about the new season of his hit sitcom, "It`s always Sunny in Philadelphia."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Danny DeVito and the gang are back for the seventh season of the FX hit "It`s Always Sunny in Philadelphia" and it looks like Danny`s character, Frank, may have found love.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait for me in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok, babe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, who`s that?
DANNY DEVITO, ACTOR: My new girlfriend, Roxy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That woman seems like a prostitute.
DEVITO: That`s because she is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, here with me now is the always entertaining, Danny DeVito.
DEVITO: She`s -- she`s adorable, Roxy.
BEHAR: She is. So she`s a crack whore that you want to marry? Is that it?
DEVITO: A crack whore, right was my favorite crack whore. And you know, because it`s not like -- it`s not so much that I only would do -- Frank would only do with -- with crack whores, I mean in some don`t do crack, some were like --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Some of them are just whores.
DEVITO: -- but some of them will do heroin, some of them are just whores, some of them are just -- but they -- they must be accepting money - -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok that`s --
DEVITO: -- because I can`t -- I don`t want to do it with anybody who doesn`t take money. Why?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, why is that?
DEVITO: Well, if they don`t feel that they`re worth anything, why should I bang them?
BEHAR: That`s very true.
DEVITO: Yes. I mean, you got to -- you got to give up.
BEHAR: Yes.
Their self-esteem should be high enough to put out for cash.
DEVITO: Yes, and I`m going to -- right.
BEHAR: Yes, I got you.
DEVITO: You`re going to put out for nothing, that`s crazy.
BEHAR: And then -- and then I saw a clip of a -- of a scene about the kids` beauty pageant.
DEVITO: Oh yes, we did a -- well, we do a lot of crazy stuff on the show.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEVITO: These guys are -- Rob McElhenney, Charlie Day, Glenn Howerton started the show. And they`re really like, you know off the -- you know, I thought I was like of the -- you`re like off the -- the deep end.
These guys -- and they`re -- they are 30-ish years old.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
DEVITO: So I was like, I`m on stage with people less than half my age.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
DEVITO: And they are like, it`s inspiring how -- how stupid and base and low and crass and everything that appeals to me -- that they -- they love all that stuff.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You found your match?
DEVITO: I found these guys, you know and I went, like my God -- and then, at first, they didn`t know, because they say, well, Danny does this, he did that, he`s the "Penguin", he`s the "Twins", he did this and that. The ok, "Taxi", I was crazy on that but they didn`t really know if I was going to fit in. And I didn`t know whether I was going to click in the sensibility.
But it`s like, you know, amazing. It`s like, you know, we mesh. Their crooked crazy twisted minds, you know --
BEHAR: It fits yours.
DEVITO: Like a glove.
BEHAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVITO: Like a real dirty glove.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
DEVITO: Like an old, like rubber glove that was somewhere we don`t want to talk about.
BEHAR: These dirty things.
DEVITO: Yes, really, like, somebody took it off like that and that was the glove.
BEHAR: So -- so this thing about the kids` pageant.
DEVITO: Oh yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEVITO: So we did -- I mean we do many shows.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEVITO: And the kid -- this was called -- it`s called Frank`s -- I think it`s called Frank`s Beauties, Frank`s little beauties, Frank`s Beauties. And I am in the show -- I have a lot of dough and I -- but I like to like invest in like crazy things and whatever it is. And I was in a bar with a guy and he -- and he pitched me a beauty pageant.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEVITO: And I figured, well, this is great, right? Yes. Right? All the broad you want.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEVITO: You know and scanty outfits, some of them will probably take money, right?
BEHAR: Yes -- which is what you like.
DEVITO: Which is what I like.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEVITO: And you know and so I figured it`s really good. So I make the deal with the guy. Then I find out he gets in trouble with the police for coming on to one of the broads.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEVITO: And then I find out it`s a kiddie pageant. So now, I`m like -- you know my father used to tell me, you tell me who you hang around with, I`ll tell you who you are.
BEHAR: Right.
DEVITO: So now, I`m tainted by this scumbag. And this guy is a pedophile.
BEHAR: He`s even worse than you.
DEVITO: Yes, I would never do it with a little kids.
BEHAR: No, that`s offensive.
DEVITO: No, they don`t have any money.
BEHAR: Ok, we`re going to take a break.
We`ll have more with the crazy Danny DeVito in just a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, a very candid conversation with TV mom extraordinaire, Florence Henderson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the star of "It`s Always Sunny in Philadelphia". But you were and still will always be the star of "Taxi".
DEVITO: Yes. That was one of my favorite experiences. It was great.
BEHAR: It was a great show.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVITO: It was so great. It was really like the thing about it is the writing was amazing and the cast, it`s all about that family, you know, if you have that -- if you can get that family going.
BEHAR: The -- what do you call it?
DEVITO: The actors who hang out and -- you know --
BEHAR: The chemistry.
DEVITO: Yes. Chemistry.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVITO: It becomes like you know, you had Danza, like right off the - - my first joke with Tony Danza in the show, I remember it like it was yesterday, was Banta his name was, Banta, you`re the only man I know who has a cauliflower back. He`s a boxer.
BEHAR: Funny.
DEVITO: Anyway, you know, Judd was the strong -- Judd Hirsch was the magnet and he`s the only one who wanted to be a cab driver. I had a great time on the show.
BEHAR: A great time. And you know, the other thing that I remember you from, probably the first thing you ever did was "One Flew over the Cuckoo`s Nest".
DEVITO: Right. "Cuckoo`s Nest".
BEHAR: You know what; when I saw that film, I thought that you were all real mental patients. I had no idea you were actors.
DEVITO: Right.
BEHAR: How did you ever --
DEVITO: It`s acting, you try to convince people of that.
BEHAR: I realize that. But you were so convincing, I thought you were really mentally ill.
DEVITO: Yes. No, wait a minute now. Mentally ill, we`re all mentally ill. We`re all mentally ill. You`re mentally ill.
BEHAR: Well, you`re actors so you`re mentally ill.
DEVITO: The idea is I did the play off Broadway, I don`t know if a lot of people know that. I did the play. The story was we went to this hospital here to do research. It was Ward`s Island.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
DEVITO: That was the scariest place. It`s right over there -- if you go to the Triboro Bridge, you see that thing that building with the little windows, they told everybody when we were doing research to do the off Broadway show, they said that we were graduate students. So they let us in.
BEHAR: So they let you in to watch.
DEVITO: They let us in. And I saw -- there were two guys in there that I just honed in on.
BEHAR: Really?
DEVITO: And I watched for hours.
BEHAR: Is that the character you came up with?
DEVITO: Yes. I combined them.
BEHAR: What was the main thing about the character?
DEVITO: The thing about it is that in the book, Martini has been shot down in an airplane, like in the war. And he -- he was really worried about drowning. One of the things I thought would be really cool, if Martini always hallucinated these kinds of -- you know, like water rising in the room.
I always sat on my feet because I kept my feet away from the ground and I didn`t want to touch any of the water. I always wanted to be, you know, like -- I wanted people to like me. So I would -- I would salute them, say hello to them.
BEHAR: Anyway, Danny, it was a great performance. And it`s great to see.
DEVITO: Oh, thank you so much. Truly great.
BEHAR: Always fun to see you. Next time you`re in New York, I want you to come back on my show.
DEVITO: Ok. Ok. I`m in that apartment right there.
BEHAR: Yes, he lives right here.
DEVITO: Right here next door.
BEHAR: You can see Danny in "It`s Always Sunny in Philadelphia".
DEVITO: Wait.
BEHAR: What?
DEVITO: "It`s Always Sunny in Philadelphia".
BEHAR: I`m sorry.
DEVITO: That`s ok. And we`re in syndication now. And we`ve been on for seven years and holding (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
BEHAR: You can see Danny. Let me do it again. You can see Danny in "It`s Always Sunny in Philadelphia" which it`s never sunny in Philadelphia.
DEVITO: Very nice. You did that --
BEHAR: Thursday nights on FX.
DEVITO: -- smooth. That was really --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: On the "Brady Bunch," Florence Henderson played a sweet, kind, wholesome mother of six. But in her new book, "Life Is Not a Stage," she reveals she was a very good actress. Joining me now, the lovely lady herself, Florence Henderson. We`ve been going through this book, and honey, you`re no angel.
FLORENCE HENDERSON, ACTRESS: No, I`m not. And I wanted to set the respect straight. You know, when you`ve been so identified with a character like Carol Brady, so many people assume that that was me. That`s my whole identity. And, you know, I just wanted people to know, unfortunately, I`m not Carol Brady.
BEHAR: No one is Carol Brady.
HENDERSON: No one.
BEHAR: Even Carey Grant said -- I wish I was Carey Grant.
HENDERSON: I thought you were going to say he said I wish I was Carol Brady.
BEHAR: Well, he said that too. He said that also when he dressed up like a lady.
HENDERSON: I knew Carey Grant.
BEHAR: Did you know him?
HENDERSON: He came to see "Fannie," which was my first big Broadway show, six times. The first time he came, there was a knock on my door. We were (inaudible), and I`m taking off the makeup. And I said, who is it? And they said, Carey Grant. I went, yes, right. And I kept cleaning my face, and they knocked again. Anyway, it was Carey Grant. I was like, whoa.
BEHAR: Exciting.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, we`re having Dyan Cannon on, I believe this week? Is it? Yes, Thursday. She is going to talk about -- because she was married to Carey.
HENDERSON: I know. As a matter of fact, when I was doing "The King and I," I think, in San Francisco, I got a call from Carey Grant, whom I had met several times, asking me about a place for her to stay. She was coming there in "How to Succeed in Business."
BEHAR: They took acid together and all sorts of stuff.
HENDERSON: I know.
BEHAR: Debbie Reynolds said he was gay at one point. All sorts of things are coming out about him that were so fascinating. But he was great. What a great, great actor.
OK. Now, another thing I found out about you in this book, is that you would have been Barbara Walters. You had that job on the Today Show and then you quit or something, and Barbara took it.
HENDERSON: I did. I was pregnant. I got pregnant on the show. Not on the show, but I got pregnant.
BEHAR: That monkey, did he do it? You know that monkey?
HENDERSON: It wasn`t Dave Garraway (ph) either. Yes, I stayed with the show for a year, and then Hugh Downs took it over and he asked me to come and be on the show with him. But I had a Broadway offer and I loved the theater and singing, and I thought, you know, I should stick with that, and Barbara Walters got the job.
BEHAR: It`s like a road not taken.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: You would have been completely different. You would have been working with me on "The View."
HENDERSON: I would so love it. I`m such a fan of your show, you know that.
BEHAR: Thank you, sweetie. And the other thing, I asked you this today on "The View," about sitting in for Johnny Carson, which I also -- I`m in awe of this, that you were the first woman to ever sit and take his place.
HENDERSON: And I did it several times. But you asked me was it nerve-wracking? Yes, it was. But there were such great writers on the show. They are fantastic. So they do a lot of your work for you. But when that light goes on, you`re the one out there.
BEHAR: That`s right.
HENDERSON: It`s all been great experience. I`ve been lucky to get all that experience throughout my career.
BEHAR: You had a fantastic career. You look fantastic. I mean --
HENDERSON: Thank you.
BEHAR: If anybody looks up your age, people are horrified by --
HENDERSON: Oh, so am I. Very horrified.
BEHAR: You look at least 20 years younger than what you are.
HENDERSON: Thank you.
BEHAR: And you stayed nice and skinny, you bitch.
HENDERSON: Well, you know what, I work out. I work out three times a week, I watch what I eat. I enjoy life, you know. I have a cocktail. I know you like your wine. I do, too.
BEHAR: Oh, yes, baby.
HENDERSON: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about your childhood a little, because I was very interested in how you grew up. Because you were really dirt poor as a child. Really poor.
HENDERSON: Very poor.
BEHAR: You were a beautiful little girl, though, which probably helped you become successful, it`s an asset?
HENDERSON: I don`t know. I could always sing. I think God gave me a voice. And when I was -- I don`t ever remember not singing. And I would sing and pass the hat. And I would sing for groceries.
BEHAR: Like Edith Piaf.
HENDERSON: Yes. And sometimes people would cry, and I would think, I wonder why they`re crying, because I sang OK, it wasn`t my voice. But I think they saw something in me that, you know, touched them.
BEHAR: Maybe they felt sad that a little girl had to sing for her supper like that. You know? Your father was a tobacco farmer, I understand.
HENDERSON: He was a share cropper. A share cropper. Have you ever wormed tobacco?
BEHAR: Wormed? Have I ever what?
HENDERSON: Wormed. You go out and you turn the tobacco leaf over, which is real green--
BEHAR: No. I grew up in Brooklyn, Florence, we didn`t have any tobacco farms.
HENDERSON: Was it south Brooklyn?
BEHAR: Actually north Brooklyn.
HENDERSON: See, if it were south Brooklyn, there would have been tobacco.
BEHAR: But I mean, like, did you have to do that?
HENDERSON: Yes. And you pull these long green worms off and then you pull them apart, and the tobacco gum sticks on the hairs on your arm. My brothers made a bet with me that if I would bite the head off a tobacco worm, they would give me a quarter, and I did it.
BEHAR: So you had a rough time as a kid. And then I read that your mom, she basically left the family. You had 10 kids in the family.
HENDERSON: There were 10 of us. The only two left was my sister, whom I called Babby.
BEHAR: Oh, just the two of you were left when your mother left?
HENDERSON: Yes. The two of us were the only ones at home.
BEHAR: But she left you with an alcoholic father.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Not nice.
HENDERSON: No. It was tough. I can`t even begin to tell you. But I learned how to get someone off a toot very young. You know, you give them a little bit of milk, a raw egg, and a little bit of whiskey, and you just taper it off. And yes. It was difficult. I won`t lie to you. It was tough.
BEHAR: But the other interesting thing was how you -- the first break that you had, there you are a kid in -- where were you? What state?
HENDERSON: I grew up in a little town called Rockport, Indiana.
BEHAR: Indiana.
HENDERSON: And then I went to high school across the river in Kentucky. Owensboro (ph), Kentucky. I rode a Greyhound bus every day back and forth.
BEHAR: A Greyhound bus?
HENDERSON: Uh-huh. yes.
BEHAR: And you had a girlfriend who was a -- came from a rich family.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: She went to the same school with you.
HENDERSON: Ruth Helen (ph).
BEHAR: Tell me about her.
HENDERSON: Ruth Helen. She`s still my best friend. We just spent about 10 days together. I could always sing and had the lead in the high school musical, and she knew how bad I wanted to go to New York. I picked out the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York. Not a clue, no chance of ever getting there. And she said to her family, please come and hear Florence, and maybe we can help her. They came, they like what they heard -- anyway, I had told everyone that`s where I was going.
BEHAR: What a nice girlfriend.
HENDERSON: Still the best, I love you, Ruthy. She`s watching.
BEHAR: She really saved you.
HENDERSON: Yes, she truly did. Almost makes me cry.
BEHAR: It is. You get veklempt from stories of kindness like that. It`s great.
HENDERSON: I know. Yes, and we`re still the best of friends. And anyway, you know, I see -- if you have dreams, voice it, because two months later, I was barely 17, I was in New York City at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts.
BEHAR: Isn`t that nice?
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: And you`re still friends with that lovely person that did that for you?
HENDERSON: Yes. My best friend.
BEHAR: And then you got the "Brady Bunch" at some point, which really made you a household name?
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: And so what did it field like in those days? You were the most beloved mother. Everybody loved you. Isn`t that great? Everybody doesn`t love me, believe me. They do not. I have opinions and people get pissed at me a lot.
HENDERSON: I know they do. But you can take it.
BEHAR: Oh, I don`t care.
HENDERSON: I know. So what? Who cares?
BEHAR: So what?
HENDERSON: Yes. I love that when you do that.
BEHAR: But I mean, when you`re an actress and you are doing a part that`s lovable, it`s kind of nice, isn`t it?
HENDERSON: People would ask me, you know, why did Carol Brady, why did you create that character? And I said, I created the kind of mother that I wished I`d had, and I think everyone longs for. You know, I still - - it`s never been off the air in this country, and it`s in 122 countries around the world. I get so much fan mail from all over the world. Everybody wants a hug from me and I hug everybody. I get so much affection.
BEHAR: But you`re a mother yourself, right?
HENDERSON: I have four children.
BEHAR: Four children. Were you anything like Mrs. Brady?
HENDERSON: Well, there`s certainly some of Carol Brady in me. But you can talk to my kids. I`ve been known to swat their behinds, and as a matter of fact, my kids would say when I was doing a show, they go how come you never scream at those kids on television? I go, because they`re not my real kids! But my kids turned out to be the most fabulous human beings.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
HENDERSON: Thank you.
BEHAR: And you know, Robert, what`s his name, Robert Reed.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Who played your husband.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: We now know that he was gay at the time. He died of AIDS, the poor guy.
HENDERSON: I know.
BEHAR: But it`s interesting. Did you know he was gay at the time?
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: You did. No one else in America knew it?
HENDERSON: No one on the show did. I was the first one that realized it. We were doing a love scene for the pilot. And we rehearsed it. Everything went very well. And then we were getting ready to shoot it. Our director, John Rich (ph), who was a very strong, tough director, who created every hit show probably on television, and he didn`t like something Bob was doing. And he nailed him, and again, and Bob got very cranky and got started an argument, and all of a sudden, I went, Bob`s gay.
BEHAR: Why? What made you think that?
HENDERSON: I could just tell.
BEHAR: By the way he was arguing?
HENDERSON: I could tell and I could tell he was very nervous about looking good on that love scene. So I said to John Rich --
BEHAR: You pressed the button.
HENDERSON: I took him aside, I said -- I can handle this, don`t -- please don`t say anything else. And -- and I did. And that`s the way it was. But I had so much compassion for Bob, to think, he was playing the father of the world, and he had to be in this closet.
BEHAR: That`s tough.
HENDERSON: I think it made him very cantankerous and, you know, because he was tense ...
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: He had so much anxiety about that.
BEHAR: And we cleared up this morning on the other show, "The View" that Greg, he`s played your son.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Was not your real boyfriend in real life.
HENDERSON: No.
BEHAR: And that he -- yeah, when we come back, I want to talk about - - a little bit about that and the politician who -- who did something, gave you a gift that you`ll never forget. We`ll be right back.
HENDERSON: Oh, Joy, I love the way you put things.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the iconic TV mom and author of "Life Is Not a Stage", Miss Florence Henderson. So, I teased it a little bit before we went away about a certain person who gave you a gift, so tell us who he was now. It`s a politician, famous, he`s dead now ...
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: ... so we can trash him.
(laughter)
HENDERSON: I don`t want to trash him.
BEHAR: No.
HENDERSON: It certainly was a rude awakening for me. It was ...
BEHAR: You had a little affair.
HENDERSON: The Mayor of New York City, John Lindsay. And, you know, I had worked hard for his election. We were friends ...
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: I was in L.A. I was alone a lot. I was lonely. And ...
BEHAR: There he is. A picture of him. Handsome, handsome ...
HENDERSON: Very handsome.
BEHAR: Mayor Lindsay.
HENDERSON: Tall gorgeous man.
BEHAR: Gorgeous!
HENDERSON: I wasn`t terribly physically attracted to him.
BEHAR: I was.
HENDERSON: But we went to dinner at someone`s home and then he said, I`ll take you back and he said, come have a drink at the Beverly Hills hotel. And that was my mistake. And he was very persuasive and I was very lonely and, you know, I made a poor choice. And the next morning, I woke up and ...
BEHAR: Itchy.
HENDERSON: Itchy. And now, here`s the thing. I believe in karma, I just didn`t know it would happen overnight. That I would be punished with those little critters. I tell you, that scared the hell out of me.
BEHAR: I`m telling you.
HENDERSON: Yeah. Have you ever had crabs?
BEHAR: No. I haven`t. I`ve had lobster. No, but to get crabs from Mayor Lindsay, I`d rather get that from him than let`s say, you know, Fiorello LaGuardia, for example. Or, you know. If you`re going to pick a mayor, he was the one. He was good looking.
HENDERSON: Yeah. He truly was. You know, and he -- he sent me flowers. He apologized.
BEHAR: You told him about it?
HENDERSON: No, I did not. But he knew.
BEHAR: He knew.
HENDERSON: He must have had them.
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah. Well, he got them from some place.
HENDERSON: Well, exactly. Hello. Where were you the night before?
BEHAR: I`m also, I`m interested in your marriages -- marriages also. Because I was reading that you went to a hypnotherapist ...
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: ... because you had problems with your first marriage. You were married to a guy for 29 years, right?
HENDERSON: Yes. But I didn`t go to the hypnotherapist because of that. I went because I developed terrible stage fright and fear of flying. That`s why I went.
BEHAR: And they hypnotized you out of that?
HENDERSON: It was the greatest thing I`ve ever done. And hypnotherapy helped me so much in so many areas of my life. And I went to school and became a certified hypnotherapist.
BEHAR: Really?
HENDERSON: Yeah.
BEHAR: That`s nice. But you fell in love with the hypnotist.
HENDERSON: I did.
BEHAR: The hypnotherapist.
HENDERSON: I did.
BEHAR: I mean that`s a little, you know, shaky ground there.
HENDERSON: I know.
BEHAR: But was it real or were you hypnotized?
HENDERSON: People used to kid John and say, you hypnotized her. No way. He was the most incredible human being ...
BEHAR: Yeah.
HENDERSON: and I was so blessed.
BEHAR: But he passed away, right?
HENDERSON: Yes. Nine years ago this month.
BEHAR: Are you married again now?
HENDERSON: No.
BEHAR: You are not.
HENDERSON: I date.
BEHAR: So you are a widow, basically?
HENDERSON: I am. I date -- I tell you , dating is always hard ...
BEHAR: It is hard.
HENDERSON: At any age. But ...
BEHAR: It is.
HENDERSON: At this age, it`s very interesting.
BEHAR: Are you dating younger guys or your age?
HENDERSON: I don`t put a limit on it, you know. I am really not into young guys.
BEHAR: You`re not?
HENDERSON: Why?
BEHAR: I know, what are you going to talk about?
HENDERSON: Yes.
JB : The -- you know, they don`t even remember the "Brady Bunch. That`s a drag.
HENDERSON: No, it`s -- it`s not my style.
BEHAR: You`re a hypnotherapist, you say.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Can you hypnotize, I need to lose 20 pounds, can you help me out here?
HENDERSON: It works, I tell you.
BEHAR: To lose weight?
HENDERSON: Oh, absolutely.
BEHAR: It will kill my desire for pasta?
HENDERSON: Well, it depends. Well, I eat pasta all the time. But it depends on your suggestibility. You know, you have to have a really good therapist but it works. It works.
BEHAR: OK. Now, what about this, I`m interested in, too, that you went to a priest because you were raised a catholic.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: You went to a priest to get special dispensation to use birth control. I`ve never heard of this.
HENDERSON: Well ...
BEHAR: Who gives dispensation for that?
HENDERSON: This was many years ago. He didn`t really give a dispensation. But at that time, there was -- I forget what it was called in the Catholic Church, for medical reasons for whatever, you could practice birth control. Well, I have a terrible disease that I was born with of the ear, called otosclerosis, so I was literally going deaf. And after each child, I would lose so much more hearing. For a singer, that is like death.
BEHAR: I see.
HENDERSON: And I think it also helped my stage fright because I was afraid I wouldn`t hear ...
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah.
HENDERSON: ... hear the music, hear the actors. And so, you know, he said, you really shouldn`t have any more children. I had four. It was like, you know, the lady that had the same problem, otosclerosis, and she and her husband would go to bed at night and she had all these kids. And you go, honey, you want to go to sleep or what? She`d go, what? Hello.
BEHAR: It`s a joke. It`s a joke.
HENDERSON: So she wound up with all these kids. And I now had four kids -- and so there ...
BEHAR: My god. Thank you.
HENDERSON: And -- are you sleeping?
BEHAR: But, I mean, today, you wouldn`t go to a priest to ask for that anymore? I mean ...
HENDERSON: Oh, Lord, no.
BEHAR: You`re such a good catholic girl.
HENDERSON: I was such a -- that`s why, you know, my own behavior sometimes surprises me because I was a very strict catholic until I married out of the church.
BEHAR: Yeah.
HENDERSON: And ...
BEHAR: You married a Jewish guy first, didn`t you?
HENDERSON: Yes. Yeah. But we were married in the church. But, you know, I used to be somewhat judgmental, you know how Sherri Shepherd and, you know, Elizabeth can be a little judgmental? I was very much like that ...
BEHAR: I see.
HENDERSON: Because I was holding on so tightly to my life. And it wasn`t until I realized that I was capable of the things that I judged others for.
BEHAR: You grew up.
HENDERSON: Yeah.
BEHAR: You grew up. OK, we`ll have more with Florence Henderson in just a minute. We`re not done.
HENDERSON: Exactly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Florence Henderson, the lovely Florence Henderson. You know, tell me about the yeah -- the time you met Sinatra.
HENDERSON: Well, you know what I was doing a show in L.A., I flew out to do a show. It was a Bing Crosby show. And I was staying at the Hollywood Rosenfeld. But I didn`t have a car or anything. I took a cab there. I was just a kid really. And so I`m waiting for a cab and here comes this little Karmann Ghia. And the window rolls down. And it`s Sinatra. He says hey, kid, where are you going? And I said ...
BEHAR: ... just walking on the street?
HENDERSON: No, no, I`m waiting at NBC.
BEHAR: I know, but we just spoke to you ...
HENDERSON: He was on the show, too.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
HENDERSON: So he said -- where are you going? And I said to the Hollywood Roosevelt and he said hop in. And I went -- I`d heard stories about Frank Sinatra ...
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: He was so sweet and so nice.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
HENDERSON: Yes. And he took me to my hotel.
BEHAR: But you didn`t sleep with him, though?
HENDERSON: No. I didn`t sleep with -- I`m often asked that in my one woman`s show. I do a Q&A.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: And he said, did you sleep with this person? No. Did you sleep with that person? No. Did you sleep -- someone even asked me did I sleep with Tiger Woods? I said, yes, I was his 18th hole.
BEHAR: That`s a good one.
HENDERSON: Or now you`re away ...
BEHAR: That`s funny. Very funny.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, but he -- didn`t he sleep with a girlfriend of yours, Sinatra?
HENDERSON: Sinatra?
BEHAR: Didn`t? I have
HENDERSON: Yes, he slept with a lot --
BEHAR: OK, let`s talk about "Dancing With The Stars."
HENDERSON: OK.
BEHAR: OK, because it was on last night. Nancy Grace danced. What did you think of her dancing?
HENDERSON: You know what, I was surprised. I thought she did pretty well.
BEHAR: She was good.
HENDERSON: Yes. I was surprised, and if she hangs in, she`s going to lose weight.
BEHAR: You know, I couldn`t -- truthfully, I like Nancy. I could not stop watching her. I was upset when it was over. I loved watching. She was so fun (ph) on her feet and everything.
HENDERSON: I know -- see ...
BEHAR: Yeah.
HENDERSON: That`s what`s great about that show.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: Because who would have thought Nancy Grace would dance like that?
BEHAR: I know.
HENDERSON: And I thought she did.
BEHAR: You would think she would trip her partner. Kidding, Nancy, kidding.
HENDERSON: Nancy, careful.
BEHAR: Yeah. OK. And also Chaz was fabulous.
HENDERSON: I thought Chaz was great. And what`s all this nonsense, you know, everybody, that I hate going on.
BEHAR: Oh, please.
HENDERSON: Isn`t it?
BEHAR: Oh, people, get a life.
HENDERSON: Yeah.
BEHAR: But when you were on, were you kicked off early or later?
HENDERSON: Five weeks I lasted.
BEHAR: That`s very ...
HENDERSON: Yeah, it was very good.
BEHAR: So you enjoyed it?
HENDERSON: I loved it. I tell you, but I couldn`t help but think last night as I`m watching Nancy and all of the people on the show, I think I wonder who has got the most blisters, I wonder who is wearing the most mole skin because your feet -- you just die in those shoes.
BEHAR: Then why do it?
HENDERSON: Oh, it`s so much fun.
BEHAR: Yeah, all right. Oh, gosh, I`m never going to do it.
HENDERSON: Oh, don`t say that.
BEHAR: I`m not.
HENDERSON: How do you know?
BEHAR: I`m not. Because I don`t want to.
HENDERSON: Why not?
BEHAR: No, I`d rather have a poker put in my eye than do that.
HENDERSON: Oh, you`re scaring me. I thought you were going to do Jay Thomas`s line ...
BEHAR: No, no.
HENDERSON: A poker up your -- yeah, never mind.
BEHAR: OK, her book is called "Life Is Not a Stage." It terrific, pick it up. Thank you for watching, everybody good night.
HENDERSON: I love you, Joy.
BEHAR: Thank you, I love you, too. You`re so adorable.
HENDERSON: Thank you.
END
