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Joy Behar Page
Conrad Murray Trial Begins; The Return of the King; Interview With Patti Stanger
Aired September 27, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, opening statements and the prosecution`s first witness in the trial of Conrad Murray. Joy wants to know if the case will hinge on the state of Michael Jackson`s health during his "this Is It" rehearsals.
Then the legendary Larry King has had his share of interviews with the Jackson family and he`ll give his inside take on the trial.
Plus "Millionaire Matchmaker" Patti Stanger is in hot water after making controversial comments about gay men and she`s not backing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTI STANGER, "MILLIONAIRE MATCHMAKER": So I don`t think there`s anything wrong with what I said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: It`s day one in the trial of Conrad Murray, the doctor who is charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson. Both sides presented their opening statements today starting with prosecutor David Walgren. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WALGREN, PROSECUTOR: Conrad Murray repeatedly acted with gross negligence, repeatedly denied care -- appropriate care to his patient, Michael Jackson. It was Dr. Murray`s repeated incompetent and unskilled acts that led to Mr. Jackson`s death on June 25th, 2009.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now to talk about all of today`s developments are Marcia Clark, author of "Guilt by Association" and former O.J. Simpson prosecutor; Jim Moret, attorney and correspondent for "Inside Edition"; and Robert Hirschhorn, attorney, and jury and trial consultant.
Marcia, did the prosecutor David Walgren, did he build a good case? What do you think?
MARCIA CLARK, AUTHOR, "GUILT BY ASSOCIATION": Yes. I think he did great. I think he did a great job. Some of it was actually quite surprising in terms of the fact that Dr. Conrad Murray did not initially tell the police that he administered Propofol. That it took as long as -- I think, what was it, two months before he actually told the police that he had administered Propofol. That makes it a very damning omission on his part. So I thought it was a very effective opening statement.
BEHAR: Do you agree, Robert?
ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, JURY AND TRIAL CONSULTANT: Absolutely not. The state has a weak case. The problem is with this case is that somebody has to accept responsibility for Michael Jackson`s behavior. They`re wanting to put it off on the doctor. It`s Michael Jackson that has to be held accountable. I thought they did a good job with what they have, Joy, but I don`t think they have a very good case.
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s hold off on that too for a minute. Because Jim the prosecution talked a lot about Murray`s gross negligence when it came to Michael. What exactly does that mean anyway, gross negligence?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, Joy, the fact is doctors are held to a certain standard of care. And if a doctor is negligent to a level that is so extreme that it rises to criminal behavior -- and that`s what`s being alleged here.
First of all, I have to disagree. I think the prosecution really said one word over and again repeatedly. There wasn`t one action that Dr. Murray did wrong; there was action after action after action. And not only what he did but what he didn`t do that he should have done.
And I think that the prosecution really laid out a road map for where they`re going and it was very powerful -- very, very powerful -- from the jury`s perspective, I think.
BEHAR: Ok. You know, you say it`s on Michael. But Dr. Murray, he left the room after he administered the Propofol.
HIRSCHHORN: Because he thought the man was asleep. He didn`t leave the room because he thought the man was dead. Joy he had been giving the man this particular drug many times over a couple of months. Michael Jackson didn`t die any other time. So something was different this time. That`s what the trial will be about.
BEHAR: But how big an issue is abandonment an issue in this case?
HIRSCHHORN: I don`t think -- if he was in the middle of administering the drug, it might be an abandonment issue. But if your patient`s asleep, you want the doctor to leave the room and let the man get some sleep. All Michael Jackson wanted was sleep.
BEHAR: Shouldn`t he monitor it? It`s a very powerful drug. He should have stayed in the room with him.
HIRSCHHORN: Yes, and you know what; for that, he should get his license jerked, not his liberty.
BEHAR: Ok. The prosecution played audio of Michael Jackson under the influence of something that Conrad Murray recorded on his iPhone. Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to be phenomenal. When people leave this show, when people leave my show, I want them to say, "I`ve never seen anything like this in my life." Go. Go.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: Marcia, creepy or what?
CLARK: That`s so tragic to hear. He`s so profoundly stoned, I mean obviously under the influence of something at that point. And his doctor was the one who recorded it. That`s what makes it so incredibly powerful.
And Mr. Hirschhorn, with all respect, is not a doctor. So doesn`t have the ability to talk about whether this is abandonment or whether he performed appropriately as a doctor. As far as how this impresses the jury, how could a jury not be moved by this to understand that Dr. Murray was in possession of an incredible amount of information regarding this man`s condition and that should have been so much more careful about the way he handled him.
I`m talking from a lay person`s point of view. I don`t pretend to be a doctor, Joy. But I have to say as juror, I`d be sitting there going wow, think this is an amazing amount of evidence they`ve got that shows the doctor`s knowledge of Michael Jackson`s condition. That`s key to proving grandson negligence.
BEHAR: Not to mention -- yes, go ahead, Jim.
MORET: Joy, I just want to add that when you listen to that powerful tape recording of Michael Jackson`s voice where he`s incoherent, what does the doctor do within the next two days? He orders a tremendous amount of Propofol. He orders --
BEHAR: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
MORET: -- Propofol. The doctor knew that Michael Jackson was in a bad way. I mean listen to that person, and you think oh my gosh, this person is stoned out of their mind, they`re incoherent, maybe they`ve got a serious problem.
BEHAR: Ok.
HIRSCHHORN: But Joy --
BEHAR: Yes.
HIRSCHHORN: There`s no suggestion that Dr. Murray gave him the drugs that made Michael Jackson sound so horrible on that tape. Dr. Murray has a really -- a really difficult patient and friend in Michael Jackson and that tape shows -- I think that`s the best evidence for the defense because it shows exactly the problem the doctor has with Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: But I mean what about the jurors though? Half of them are fans of Michael Jackson. How does that influence them to hear that?
HIRSCHHORN: Best evidence the prosecution has on this whole case, best evidence, is the fact that some of the jurors are such big fans of Michael Jackson. When they hear that tape, that`s going to be a side of Michael Jackson that these fans never heard before but that this doctor had to deal with on a daily basis. The man was between a rock and hard place when it came to Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: Ok.
CLARK: Oh, no. No. I have to say, I`m sorry, Joy --
BEHAR: Go ahead.
CLARK: I so disagree with that. I think it makes Michael Jackson that much more sympathetic. They see him as somebody who has had a very rough life. He`s obviously in bad shape. He`s somebody who is taking drugs to try and deal with his life and all pressures of his life.
I think it goes the opposite way. They hear this and they see him as a child-like person who needs protecting. He didn`t get it obviously.
HIRSCHHORN: He needs Dr. Drew. That`s what he needs.
CLARK: We all need Dr. Drew. We all do.
HIRSCHHORN: Hello.
BEHAR: No, we need Dr. Ruth.
MORET: Joy, that doctor had 150,000 reasons a month to give Michael Jackson drugs. That`s the problem here.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right.
Ok. The prosecution laid out a timeline that showed that Murray was slow to call 9/11. Was he stalling for time? Jim.
MORET: I mean I can`t understand why -- the defense made it very clear.
BEHAR: What was he doing?
MORET: Their position was Michael Jackson was -- well, Michael Jackson -- he was on the phone, he was checking his voice mail. He was -- I don`t know what he was doing. I mean he wasn`t where Michael Jackson was lying there either unconscious or possibly dead. The defense is telling everyone he died instantly. That doesn`t really make sense because the defense is suggesting Michael Jackson may have ingested this orally, took a number of pills. That takes time for your body to metabolize.
So I don`t understand -- if Michael Jackson was in the same position as he was in that audiotape, how could he have given himself all of those drugs? I think the defense did a good job with what they had but I don`t think was as persuasive.
BEHAR: Ok. We didn`t get to that yet, the defense.
MORET: Oh, I`m sorry. I`m sorry.
BEHAR: That`s all right. What about the fact that he didn`t call 911 for a while. What was he doing?
HIRSCHHORN: Number one, calling 911 is not going to make the man`s heart start again. That`s not going to help start his heart. He`s a doctor, he was giving CPR. I think he panicked. You don`t --
BEHAR: Well, wouldn`t you? Wouldn`t you? If you`re giving this guy massive doses of Propofol which you`re supposed to only give in a hospital, now the guy is dead. You would panic, too.
HIRSCHHORN: I would. I should have my medical -- well, Marcia`s already said I don`t have a medical license, she`s right about that. If I did, I wouldn`t be administering medical service in this kind of environment where I get paid $150,000 a month. He should get his medical license taken away but have his liberty taken away, that`s a different story.
BEHAR: Ok. What were you going to say before I move on? Somebody was jumping in there.
MORET: He panicked. He`s a doctor. First of all, he`s not an anesthesiologist, he`s administering anesthesia. He`s a cardiologist; he doesn`t know how to do CPR. This doctor has more problems than just his medical license and I think his freedom should be taken away in this situation.
BEHAR: You know, here`s a point. I mean here, he`s giving some kind of a drug, an anesthesiologist is not in the room.
HIRSCHHORN: But Michael Jackson has the right to have his personal physician. If Michael Jackson wanted to take the risk of having a personal physician supply that kind of heavy dose of anesthesia to him, that`s his right.
BEHAR: But he was desperate to sleep.
CLARK: Wait a minute. Did he -- that`s why we have drug laws and that`s why we have standards of care for doctors. If that was ok, if the patient could simply say give me what I want then a doctor could get heroin and shoot him up with heroin. I mean how far do you take that kind of logic?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s a good point.
CLARK: Obviously --
BEHAR: All right, hold that point.
CLARK: -- what`s with the doctor.
BEHAR: We`re going to take a break and we`ll hear what the defense had to say today when we come back and then you two can continue arguing.
HIRSCHHORN: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow, singer Gloria Estefan turns up the heat in Joy`s studio with her latest album.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. We`re talking about the first day of the much anticipated Conrad Murray trial. Ok, let`s listen to the crux of the defense`s argument.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The scientific evidence will show you that when Dr. Murray left the room, Michael Jackson self-administered a dose of Propofol. That with the Lorazepam created a perfect storm in his body that killed him instantly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok Marcia, so the defense is arguing Michael that gave himself the fatal dose of Propofol. First of all, is that even possible to do? We don`t -- could he do that?
CLARK: You know, I mean that is the question, Joy. That is right there, you have framed it perfectly, beautifully. That is going to be the crux of the matter. The jury is going to look at it and say, wait, could that really happen? It`s going to be up to the prosecution to show with doctors` testimony, because that -- this is a really technical issue.
I think there`s going to be a lot of medical testimony about whether he could have been capable of doing that and whether it was ingestible in the manner that the defense claims. I`ve heard doctors tell me I don`t even see how he could have administered the Propofol to himself on that any point let alone at a point after we keep taking so many other drugs. As you`ve heard from the prosecution he had a cocktail of -- of sedative-type drugs, downers if you will, already in his bloodstream.
Was he in any condition to administer Propofol? I don`t think so. But I think that will be the issue that has to be resolved.
BEHAR: Well, the -- the admission of other drugs into this trial is going to happen.
HIRSCHHORN: Yes, I understand that what judge did is he excluded that evidence. But Joy I`ve got to show you. This is the jury questionnaire that was filled out by the jury. This jury writing --
BEHAR: Yes.
HIRSCHHORN: And it`s got all of these different drugs. Now they`re not thinking that it was Dr. Murray that was taking these drugs. And listen to some of these drugs. There`s Ambien, Demerol, ephedrine, Lidocaine, Oxycontin, Percocet, Valium. Drugs that are in the case whether the prosecution likes it or not because the jury is going to know it.
I mean, it looks like --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He took all of those drugs.
HIRSCHHORN: It looks like the "King of Pop" was the "King of Dope".
BEHAR: He was.
HIRSCHHORN: I mean look at all these drugs in the man`s body. That`s why the defense -- hang on one sec, Marcia, what the defense is going to say --
BEHAR: Hold on a second.
HIRSCHHORN: What the defense is going to say is look, when Dr. Murray left the room Michael Jackson is the one that self-administered the medication. If the defense raises the doubt --
BEHAR: What if the doctor says it`s impossible to do that to yourself?
HIRSCHHORN: But there`s going to be a defense that says -- there`ll be a defense expert that says --
BEHAR: There will be that, yes.
Ok. Go ahead, Jim.
MORET: Wait a minute. When the doctor left the room. Those are the key words here "when the doctor left the room." The doctor knew he had given Michael Jackson drugs over a period of hours. He`d given, according to the doctor, a small amount of Propofol and then the doctor claims that when he left, Michael Jackson was sleeping.
But he left the room Joy. He`s being paid $150,000 a month. He`s not being paid to go answer voice mails and e-mails. He`s being paid for medical care and Michael Jackson didn`t receive it.
HIRSCHHORN: But Joy, he was there because he wanted his patient to go to sleep.
CLARK: Joy, let me clarify something.
HIRSCHHORN: All his patient was begging for was to sleep.
BEHAR: Right. And he`s paying him to do it. That`s the point.
HIRSCHHORN: And he`s paying him to do it.
BEHAR: Go ahead, Marcia.
CLARK: Ok. Yes, Joy, what I was trying to say is that other drugs in terms of what Michael Jackson may have taken in the past were excluded. But what was in his bloodstream at the time of the death is not excluded. And that is -- that evidence is going to come in. And it`s going to show that Michael Jackson already had Lorazepam, other kinds of sedatives in his bloodstream so that there was that on top of the Propofol.
That`s what I`m saying, is that when you talk about whether or not he could have administered it to himself, you`re going to look at the condition he was at that time. And those drugs are going to be very important to have a doctor come in and say he couldn`t have done it or he could have done it. That will be the issue.
BEHAR: Because he was too out of it to do it? Is that the --
CLARK: Yes.
HIRSCHHORN: Could have been.
BEHAR: But it also seems to me very difficult to put yourself on an IV drip.
HIRSCHHORN: Well, but you don`t know what the IV setup was. In other words, he could have had an ability to put it indirectly to his IV line instead of into his arm.
BEHAR: I see. A do-it-yourself IV.
HIRSCHHORN: Exactly. But Joy, here`s the other thing. Do we know how much of the other drugs Michael Jackson took that Dr. Murray was aware of? If he was aware of it was one thing. If he wasn`t aware of it, Dr. Murray can`t be held accountable for Jackson taking these other drugs.
BEHAR: Ok.
All right, Jim, the first witness the prosecution called was Kenny Ortega, Michael`s choreographer.
MORET: Right.
BEHAR: So what did he have to say?
MORET: Well, Kenny Ortega talked -- Michael worked closely with Kenny Ortega, not only for the tour but Kenny Ortega was also the director of the "This Is It" documentary. And Kenny Ortega he talked about seeing Michael Jackson out of it. And Kenny Ortega was very concerned that Michael Jackson wouldn`t be up for rehearsals and therefore up for the tour. And he expressed these concerns.
And what was he told? He was told by Dr. Murray, hey look, I`m the doctor, you`re the director, I`ll deal with this. You just go do what you do, let me take care of Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: Yes.
MORET: He was dismissed. And that`s really what opens the doctor up to some trouble here, I think.
BEHAR: Ok. You agree with that?
HIRSCHHORN: Yes absolutely. That -- and I tell you something else, if you look at the picture of Dr. Murray that they keep showing, this guy, all he does is scowl and frown. This man needs to learn how to take a happy pill and be a little happier out there.
BEHAR: A happy pill? A guy is dead. Why should he have a happy pill?
HIRSCHHORN: He can`t you scowl the whole trial. He`s got to show the jury he has a human side to him because otherwise he looks robotic Joy. And as a jury consultant, as someone that looks at juries for a living, if he looks robotic the entire trial, the jury is going to think there is something terribly wrong with this guy. His judgment wasn`t there and that`s what caused him to do this.
BEHAR: When Michael was quoted as saying, "When people leave this show, when people leave my show, I want them to say, "I`ve never seen anything like this in my life." It`s pathetic. The guy was under so much pressure and he put himself under it.
HIRSCHHORN: Oh, absolutely.
BEHAR: I mean who would ever want to live like that?
Thank you guys very much. We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next, talk show titan, Larry King, drops by to reminisce about the private moments he shared with the Jackson family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Winning an Emmy award for lifetime achievement in television means that one, you`ve made an enormous contribution to television arts and sciences; and two, you didn`t die young. This week, my old pal Larry King who`s still going strong, received television`s highest honor.
So welcome to the show, Larry King.
Larry, I have to say, I miss you. I miss you on television. I really do.
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: Thank you. I miss -- a lot of times I miss doing it. Some days I don`t but some days I do.
BEHAR: Of course not.
KING: The big stories, I miss doing it. But this was my studio.
BEHAR: It was? I was here many times. It didn`t feel like this.
KING: Well, the lighting was different. I didn`t have a Joy Behar cup. I didn`t have that background, I had my dots.
BEHAR: You had your dots.
KING: But this was the place in the CNN New York ground floor.
BEHAR: So how does it feel to be back here? Feels good?
KING: Yes. It feels very good. I was part of this place for 25 1/2 years in Washington, Los Angeles, in New York so often. Sure. It`s very mixed emotions.
BEHAR: I understand, we`re covering the Conrad Murray trial.
KING: I heard.
BEHAR: Yes. HLN is on it.
KING: No kidding.
BEHAR: But you knew Michael Jackson pretty well, didn`t you?
KING: Fairly well. I guess I was with him three or four times. Never interviewed him. We were supposed to set up; we never did it. I had dinner with him once.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What was he like in person?
KING: He was very quiet. Celine Dion told me an interesting thing about him. He was in the audience one night watching her in Vegas. And she announced he was there -- he, like this.
BEHAR: He didn`t like it.
KING: You want to come up, Michael? No, no, Michael, come on up. Let`s do something together, the band played, whack, he was a great entertainer.
BEHAR: He went right into it.
KING: Right into it. But he was one of the shyest people I ever met or have been around.
BEHAR: I mean there`s so many things in this trial that are interesting. What do you think about the defense strategy for Conrad Murray?
KING: Well, one, in all the years I`ve been in broadcasting I never prejudged a trial. The reason is to prejudge is to assume things --
BEHAR: Right.
KING: -- not in evidence. I don`t know what`s in evidence. So I`d have to be in the jury room everyday in the jury. I couldn`t hear what`s said behind the scenes, because I`m not supposed to hear that and then I could make a judgment. All the rest is speculation.
So I understand the success of the television network doing well with this covering it but I don`t like people saying, well, he`s guilty. How do you know he`s guilty? He`s charged with involuntary manslaughter. That means not deliberate, right?
BEHAR: No. That`s right.
KING: Neglect. I don`t know. I don`t know the circumstances.
BEHAR: Well, his defense is also saying maybe Michael did it to himself.
KING: Maybe he did. We weren`t there.
BEHAR: We don`t know. No one was there except him and Conrad Murray.
KING: And since we weren`t, we have to listen to the evidence. I felt a little sorry -- you know, it`s one of those cases when the prosecution presents his opening case, that`s wrong. Then the defense, hey, that`s a point I never thought of.
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true. But we`ll watch it.
KING: But the public will follow it.
BEHAR: We`re interested in watching it.
Ok. We`re going to have more with Larry King. That was just a little tidbit when we come back. That was nothing.
KING: That was it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Donald Trump says most of the Republican candidates for president are meeting with him. So is Trump the GOP kingmaker or do they just want to be on "Celebrity Apprentice?" I`m back with Larry King.
OK, Larry. They all kissed Trump`s ring. Have you seen this?
KING: Yes, they all came to New York.
BEHAR: All except Ron Paul, I understand, that`s according to Mr. Trump. Will that help them at all, do you think?
KING: I don`t know what to think. You know, I love Donald. He is what he is.
BEHAR: He is a character.
KING: He is. He is himself. What you see is what you get. He`s been a terrific friend to us. I like him very much, I`ve known him for years. This coming to kiss the ring -- you know, Republicans, they`re in a -- they`ve got a weakened presidency, so they`re frothing at the bit, and they can`t find a -- they have got to find a niche, so Romney has his niche yet he had that Massachusetts problem with his health care. And the Governor Perry is -- you know, he wants to secede from the union.
BEHAR: He doesn`t believe in evolution or global warming, climate change.
KING: No, but on the other hand, he did some very compassionate things.
BEHAR: I know, which they can`t tolerate.
KING: They don`t know how to put up with it, like for example he believes that the child of an illegal alien should be given health care if in trouble.
BEHAR: And an education.
KING: And an education, too. Wow. A kid hit by a car, your father was escaped -- got his way into -- leave him there.
BEHAR: You saw that they booed -- or they applauded when they said a guy on a gurney who`s uninsured, what should you do with him, let him die? And they all say yeah!
KING: My favorite on personal basis of them is Jon Huntsman, who has -- he would have the best chance, in my opinion, of winning the election, but very little chance of getting the nomination because he`s too moderate and very progressive and very bright.
BEHAR: You like him because he`s almost like a Democrat maybe. You know?
KING: Well, you know, he was ambassador to China. My wife was betrothed to him.
BEHAR: She`s what?
KING: They were born like how far apart?
BEHAR: What do you mean betrothed, they were going to get married?
KING: No, they were children together.
BEHAR: I don`t think that`s what betrothed mean. You don`t mean that?
KING: I don`t know what I mean. I do know that they were children together--
BEHAR: Infants who are engaged to be married, is that what you`re telling me?
KING: When he was governor of Utah, she called him one day and asked to speak to Johnny.
BEHAR: Oh, he`s a Mormon.
KING: Yes.
BEHAR: And so is Romney, which brings me to that question, what about the Mormon factor?
KING: I don`t know.
BEHAR: Well, you know a Mormon, you sleep with a Mormon?
KING: Occasionally, when she lets me. One thing I know is they can`t run together.
BEHAR: No.
KING: Romney and Huntsman. They can`t run together.
BEHAR: No, they can`t.
KING: It would be great -- the one thing good about it if Romney or Huntsman got it is a Mormon against a black, what does the South do? What do they do? You`re in Alabama, oh, my gosh.
BEHAR: There would be mass suicides in Mississippi.
KING: Suicide, what do we do?
BEHAR: I know. What about Christie? Chris Christie. They`re saying -- they`re trying to get him into the race.
KING: He keeps denying it, huh? You know better -- you know him better because you live east.
BEHAR: I know, but I don`t live in his state. I just watch him like everybody else.
KING: He`s supposed to be an effective governor.
BEHAR: But he has a little anger management issues.
KING: Does he?
BEHAR: Some woman, they have a tape of him, some woman said to him, do you send your kids to private school? It`s none of your business! I don`t think that`s going to play, do you?
KING: He`s a little overweight, too, right?
BEHAR: Oh, please. He shouldn`t be running for office, he should be jogging. So what about a Jewish president, do you think we`ll ever see a Jewish president?
KING: Your lips to God.
BEHAR: Michael Bloomberg would be great as the Jewish -- first Jewish president.
KING: Michael who?
BEHAR: Bloomberg.
KING: Bloomberg, oh, the mayor.
BEHAR: The mayor of New York City.
KING: But he doesn`t want to run, too. And now, he`s weakened. Right? He wouldn`t be reelected.
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know. He could buy the whole thing pretty much.
KING: I think we almost had a Jewish vice president.
BEHAR: Lieberman.
KING: Yeah. And I think those days are hopefully gone.
BEHAR: A gay president maybe someday? President Harvey Fierstein. The Oval Office will be pink, it will be fabulous.
KING: Won`t it be great someday, a major independent candidate is gay, the Republican is Mormon and the Democrat is black.
BEHAR: And the first lady is a man.
KING: The first lady is a man and there`s mass suicides.
BEHAR: In Mississippi.
OK, let`s talk about your lifetime achievement.
KING: I`m glad you brought that up. This is my lifetime hernia. I was very honored to get this, Joy, last night.
BEHAR: You won that last night.
KING: When they told me I was going to get it, I was -- actually, Wendy Walker, my producer, called up and said we got this letter. And to see the people -- you know, Brian Williams emceed it. And it was touching. It was a touching night.
BEHAR: Shall we see it? I have a clip.
KING: You got a clip, yes, sure.
BEHAR: Let`s show a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It was a joy every night, radio or television, to go in and meet people from all walks of life and ask them questions and get paid for it. It was unbelievable. They gave me the privilege, the privilege of sitting there and being seen around the world. I`m a little Jewish kid from Brooklyn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You always remember where you came from, Larry.
KING: I never forget. I never forget where I grew up. When I come back to Brooklyn, if I don`t make it out sometimes, a friend of mine took the two little boys out to the house we grew up in.
BEHAR: Chance and Cannon.
KING: Chance and Cannon, they`re 12 and 11.
BEHAR: Wow.
KING: Chance is into puberty now.
BEHAR: Oh, yeah?
KING: What is it, they had a -- this is what Chance did. What are you laughing at, Shawn? What did I do wrong now?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That it`s puberty. But it`s OK.
KING: I said -- no, there was a modeling show on Rodeo Drive. And there were models in the window. Chance, 12 years old, wrote his phone number on a card, put it up to the window and said, call me.
BEHAR: Boy, like father like son.
KING: And Cannon is a little comedian.
BEHAR: He`s a comedian?
KING: He called me last night, very angry, very anxious. I like President Obama but he`s tying up traffic.
BEHAR: That`s cute.
KING: They`re adorable.
BEHAR: So you know, Barbara Walters is considered a living legend. Are you considered a living legend also?
KING: It`s better than the alternative.
BEHAR: A dead legend.
KING: That`s what they said last night. And it was nice to hear. You know, if you spend -- Frank Sinatra said something very true.
BEHAR: Dooby-dooby-doo--
KING: He also said, there`s a lot to be said for longevity. Because I was asking him about Presley. What do you make of Presley? You know, because he`s completely different. He says, if the public will accept you for a multitude of years, you`re doing something right.
BEHAR: I guess so. I think so.
KING: So I`m not going to quibble with it. A legend or -- it`s just -- why am I fondling this?
BEHAR: I don`t know. You are fondling it. It`s like, get a room with this thing. Now, listen, Larry -- you interviewed--
KING: That was funny.
BEHAR: Thank you. So you interviewed Ahmadinejad. Did you realize that he hates Jews and wants them all dead? Were you aware of that?
KING: I don`t know if he wanted me dead. I`ll tell you something interesting--
BEHAR: Did he know you were Jewish?
KING: Oh, yeah. The day before we met, this is at -- at the Iranian minister`s house. And he was very kind. We were setting up the interview. A guy from Iran, and he`s, you know, you`ll do well and you can ask anything you like, the president will be happy. And I look at the wall and there`s like four paintings, all by Marc Chagall.
BEHAR: Really?
KING: So I said to the guy, Marc Chagall. Oh, I love Marc Chagall, he`s my favorite painter. I said, you know he was Jewish? The guy went into catatonic shock. He`s Jewish?
BEHAR: Really? He didn`t know.
KING: Marc Chagall is Jewish? He didn`t know.
BEHAR: But did you not feel any discomfort? I mean--
KING: Discomfort? No--
BEHAR: I know it gets ratings, but if Hitler was here, would you interview him?
KING: I got in a tussle with him because he was -- he made one point, it was a point, he said if there was a Holocaust -- this is when I get into it -- why wasn`t Israel set up in Poland and Germany and why weren`t the trials -- what did Palestine have to do with the Holocaust? No, what did Palestine, his point was what did Palestine have to do with --
BEHAR: With the Holocaust.
KING: With the war against the Jews, if there was a war against the Jews.
BEHAR: Oh, if.
KING: Was the crime in Palestine?
BEHAR: I see.
KING: So instead of going there, I said, what do you mean by if? And I couldn`t get him off that. And so I don`t like to argue with guests because you don`t learn anything. It`s thrilling to watch an argument, but you don`t learn anything.
BEHAR: That`s a good tip for me in case he comes by.
KING: No, but what he is, he has an open collar. He invited me to Tehran.
BEHAR: But didn`t you say to him -- listen -- what`s his name, his first name?
KING: Ahmadinejad --
BEHAR: Ahmed (ph), whatever.
KING: I think it`s one word.
BEHAR: Ahmadinejad, you say, didn`t you see the footage of the Holocaust? Didn`t you see Auschwitz?
KING: Lies and phony things!
BEHAR: Really, we made up those lies? See, I would get into a total fight with him. I`m not -- I`m not as cool as you are, I guess.
KING: I often try to keep myself out of it. In some cases, it was hard.
BEHAR: Before we go, who was the smartest president you ever interviewed and the dumbest?
KING: No president was dumb. You can`t be president and be dumb. It`s easy to say Bush II, but I like him a lot.
BEHAR: You could like him, doesn`t mean he`s up here with Lincoln.
KING: Well, he knew baseball.
BEHAR: He knew baseball.
KING: If you know baseball, you --
BEHAR: There`s a qualification for international affairs.
KING: Probably the smartest was Clinton.
BEHAR: Clinton the smartest. He is brainy.
KING: Because -- oh.
BEHAR: He`s got the brains. OK, thank you, Larry.
KING: Thank you, Joy, thank you.
BEHAR: Congratulations.
KING: Congratulations on the marriage.
BEHAR: Oh, thank you very much.
KING: Going to have a baby? I think that shows (ph).
BEHAR: I was hoping for twins.
KING: That`s right. Name them Irving.
BEHAR: I`ll name them Irving after -- after Irving Berlin. Yes.
KING: Yes.
BEHAR: And next, millionaire matchmaker Patti Stanger is here responding to the controversial remarks she made about gays and women.
Oh, yes, we`re right on it.
KING: What did she say?
BEHAR: You`ll have to watch.
KING: I`ll watch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Helping lonely rich people find love is not easy, but Patti Stanger never stops using her subtle charms to help millionaires find their match. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTI STANGER, MILLIONAIRE MATCHMAKER: Do not do this to a girl again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, don`t -- I am going to tell you something.
SANGER: Don`t tell me what to do. Don`t tell me what to do. Don`t be pointing at me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, I`m not having this.
SANGER: OK, you know what, I was going to praise you for having a romantic dinner, but that should have been the only part of the date.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to me.
SANGER: When I told you not to test women. You disrespected me, now get the [EXPLETIVE DELETED] out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Oh, so someone`s having a bad day. Here with me now is Patti Stanger, host of the "Millionaire Matchmaker." Patti, why did you get so pissed at that guy?
SANGER: Oh, he made the girl go on a date where he took photographs of her and gave her a dress, didn`t let her own the dress. Very creepy move on a first date. That was considered a fun date for the girl.
BEHAR: So you yelled at him?
SANGER: Yes, it was creepy.
BEHAR: OK, now you were just on "Watch What Happens Live." That`s Andy Cohen`s show?
SANGER: Correct.
BEHAR: And you made some remarks about gays and monogamy. Let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANGER: In the gay world, there`s always going to be open. Are you straight or gay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gay.
SANGER: OK, well then you`re OK. There`s Grinder (ph) for you, you go on Grinder. You`ll have a great time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait. Hold on. So gays can have open relationships?
SANGER: There is no curbing the gay. Have you seen the Madison (ph) episode? Seriously. You know, I tried to curb you people and you just don`t -- I decided to throw in the towel and say, do what you want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK, now, let me just say, that Gawker has written about you this, "dumb comments that reinforce stereotypes of gay men as effeminate, disease-carrying sluts who are incapable of monogamy."
SANGER: You missed the top of the hour with the questions.
(CROSSTALK)
SANGER: And the question was this. I live in Los Angeles, I`m gay, everyone here is a player, I can`t find somebody who wants a monogamous relationship. He won`t go to the Abbey (ph), he won`t go online. And I said to him, that`s right, it is true, because whether you`re straight or gay, that`s player town.
Now, did I say all gays? I said the gays in Los Angeles, because what`s going on is my show shoots from Los Angeles. And for five years, I have put gay dating on the map. Nobody else ever did this. There was no logo then. I did the no-hate campaign, I was an advocate for gay marriage. I stood up there for my gay friends. I have more gay friends than Carter has pills. And the bottom line was, he`s saying to me he can`t find somebody who wants a monogamy. In the show when we do the mixers, the guys are passing around their telephone numbers, they`re sleeping with each other. Even after the millionaire gets the date, he is sleeping with a pool of people.
My friend Mark Batter (ph) was on last night. He`s gay, a great designer. He said, Patti, this is what it`s like around the country, this is the gay community. I said, I`m trying to curb them.
Now, this is not the lesbian. The lesbian gets involved, they move in together. They`re quiet, they`re at peace. But the gay men, you know, they whip it out at eye lock, they get involved, and then they find out later whether or not they want a serious relationship. And I hope they use the privilege in New York of gay marriage, because now they have it, and a lot of the gays aren`t getting married even though they have got the privilege.
BEHAR: Well, listen, a lot of people don`t want to get married these days. They shouldn`t be put up--
SANGER: But you did.
BEHAR: I did, but it took me 29 years.
SANGER: OK, but use the privilege. But the point of the story was, the bottom line--
BEHAR: But here`s where I think you went wrong. When you make it sound as if all gays are like that. If you said all blacks, all Chinese, all women, anything, it will get you in trouble.
SANGER: I was -- I apologized if GLAAD was offended, but I have been the first person for gay marriage in the box, to put it on the map on television, where every network fought me. "Queer as Folk" wouldn`t do it. OK? I was the one. And I`m still there in the trenches. I have put -- I think last week`s episode with Madison, he is one of my closest friends, he`s gay and he`s dating, but he`s dating a different guy that he`s dating on the show, and he`s dating other people.
BEHAR: But do you think bottom line that gay men are more promiscuous than straight men, because they are men after all?
SANGER: I think there`s -- I think it`s like a standard operating procedure like where like it`s OK. When a player comes out like a Warren Beatty, and he`s spreading his seed around town, he`s labeled as a player and he`s labeled cool. In the gay community, if you want monogamy, that`s not really cool. But gays do this by and large. That`s what the bathhouses were built on. You know, you`ve got Grinder now. Grinder is a big thing right now. We can`t overlook Grinder. Do you know what Grinder is?
BEHAR: No.
SANGER: It`s a site where gay men hook up for sex and you can actually look at the GPS locator and find the guy and go to the bathroom and have sex with him, in the woods, in the park, anywhere.
BEHAR: Well, that`s -- that might be one segment--
SANGER: There`s no straight Grinder.
BEHAR: Well, no, but there`s that -- there`s that Ashley Madison thing with --
SANGER: But that`s affairs.
BEHAR: -- which tells people how to cheat on their spouse.
SANGER: But that`s affairs.
BEHAR: I mean, it`s just this kind of -- kind of lowlife, as you`re describing.
SANGER: But when you talk to the gays and you have community conversations with the men out there, and they tell me, what`s he look like? Is he cute enough? It`s all about physical things first.
BEHAR: All right. Straight men do this, too, though.
SANGER: Straight men do this. Players do do this. And I think there`s a genetic thing -- I think if we were to examine the biology of these men, we find that there`s an extra chromosome that makes them predatory like that. But when they find--
BEHAR: It`s called testosterone.
SANGER: Well, there you go. Well, gays don`t have a lot of testosterone if you do the tests on that.
BEHAR: They do so.
SANGER: No, what I mean--
BEHAR: What about the ones who play hockey?
SANGER: I`m not talking about that. I`m talking about that they use both sides of their brain. You know, that`s their -- straight men usually use one side. Gay men are very bright, very handsome. Very--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They are not all handsome. I know plenty of guys who are gay who are not handsome.
SANGER: Thy put themselves better together.
BEHAR: That`s different. They groom.
SANGER: They dress good, they decorate, they clean, they cook.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But all this is positive stereotypes, but they are still stereotypes. Do you understand?
SANGER: But there`s stereotypes in everything, you know, Italians, Jews. Everything--
BEHAR: You have to use the word some. Just use the word some.
SANGER: I said Los Angeles.
BEHAR: The entire city of Los Angeles?
SANGER: No. I said a lot -- like I`d say 75 percent of the gays, because there is this place called the Abbey, they all hang there --
BEHAR: All right, stop giving so much publicity for them. Now, let`s go to women for a second.
SANGER: OK.
BEHAR: Because you said that New York women are smart in business but dumb in love.
SANGER: That`s true.
BEHAR: Now, what does that mean?
SANGER: They won`t listen to me as far as trying to find love, that they -- they go 40, 50, and they`re still single and alone. It`s really sad. there`s five women to one guy here.
BEHAR: What`s the problem?
SANGER: They need to get to the suburbs.
BEHAR: Why would they want to do that?
SANGER: Because the men are buying houses in a down economy, short sales, you know, foreclosures, real wealthy guys -- this is about millionaires, not regular average Joes. OK, are wanting to spread their wealth around, get a good investment, and they go out to Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. These girls are city girls (ph). I took two girls out over the weekend and said, get your asses to the suburbs.
BEHAR: But then what you`re asking them is to give up their lives, which is probably a fabulous urban life in the Big Apple, to go die in the suburbs.
SANGER: I said to them, which would you rather have, love or business? And they said love. I said, well, then go for it.
BEHAR: They say love and they want love for two years, and then they want their fabulous lives, their single lives back.
SANGER: But don`t they want children?
BEHAR: I guess they want children, but they still want their interesting lives. They don`t want to be stuck in some place where they are not happy.
SANGER: But there`s five women to one guy. How great is that?
BEHAR: I`m not saying suburbs are a nightmare. I`m just saying a lot of these girls that you`re talking about, like New York.
SANGER: And then eventually they get married and they move out to the suburbs. Right, Long Island, New Jersey. They all do that in the city.
BEHAR: All I can say to you, did you ever hear of Sylvia Plath? We`ll have more with--
SANGER: Oh my God, she killed herself!
BEHAR: -- Patti in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Patti Stanger from "The Millionaire Matchmaker." You`re looking for Mr. Right out there, for the girls, right?
SANGER: Uh-huh.
BEHAR: You say -- do you say something about there being not too smart on these dates?
SANGER: No. I said to soften up. Don`t lead with your resume. If you lead with Harvard, you know, masters degrees, all these major things, like I built a corporation -- men are very sensitive right now. The economy crashed. They left their balls at the door, so to speak --
BEHAR: I thought these guys are millionaires.
SANGER: No, no, we`re talking about in general.
BEHAR: OK, general.
SANGER: And I say to them, here`s what you have to do. You have got to soften that. You`re leading and making more money than them, because they generally don`t like that. And they feel emasculated, and they move on to the dumb, you know, waitress.
BEHAR: But that`s not even -- that`s a great note for anybody to not talk about how much money you`re making.
SANGER: But they lead with their resume. They lead with their accomplishments, and then the men feel like they don`t have enough accomplishments to take to the table.
BEHAR: How big a turnoff is that to say, hi, I`m Frankie from Harvard. Give me a break.
SANGER: They do that.
BEHAR: No one wants to hear that.
SANGER: They did that on my show this season. A lot of that happens. They lead with the resume.
BEHAR: OK. That`s a good note. Now, Kate Gosselin is single. What are you going to do with her?
SANGER: I would like to find her a guy. Let her come on "Millionaire Matchmaker."
BEHAR: Who`s going to go with her? She has got all those kids. Eight.
SANGER: You know what, I used to say that--
BEHAR: These same sensitive guys are going to take on eight kids?
SANGER: She loved the bodyguard, so maybe we`ll get a guy like that for her.
BEHAR: The bodyguard?
SANGER: Yes.
BEHAR: How much does he make? She needs to support eight kids.
SANGER: Not him because he`s married, but somebody like that.
BEHAR: But a bodyguard or somebody like that doesn`t make enough to support these eight kids.
SANGER: You know, I feel like she`s clever and she`ll figure a way to make money. I don`t think she`s as dumb as everyone thinks she is.
BEHAR: No, she`s not dumb. No one ever said she`s dumb.
SANGER: I think she`s very clever, and she`s very attractive now, and I don`t see why she can`t find love. Those kids are grown up.
BEHAR: They`re still kids. Elementary school.
SANGER: So maybe it`s a guy who couldn`t have kids and he loves kids. You ever think of that? Maybe it`s a soccer coach or something like that.
BEHAR: All right. How about Sandra Bullock`s ex, Jesse James, is -- and I think Eva Braun is dead, so what are you going to do with him?
SANGER: I can`t -- I wouldn`t--
BEHAR: You wouldn`t fix him up?
SANGER: He`s a Nazi, I am not fixing up a Nazi.
BEHAR: Tareq Salahi. What about him?
SANGER: OK, he needs therapy. He needs dating detox. My book, "Become Your Own Matchmaker," read that chapter three times. He needs that.
BEHAR: So do you think you`re going to be invited back to Andy Cohen`s show?
SANGER: You know what, it`s really funny, after that comment was made, he didn`t disagree with me in the break. So unless he comes out on Twitter and says something against me, I highly doubt it. I love him. So I don`t think there`s anything wrong with what I said.
Look, I`m telling the truth. And everybody knows it, because everyone is tweeting me on my Twitter saying, I agree with you, but nobody wants to say it. I`m known as saying the truth. I apologize if it offended people, but I really believe a lot of this can be changed if they got more monogamous, and they`re not.
BEHAR: OK. But remember the word some.
SANGER: I said Los Angeles. I said L.A. I didn`t say the rest of the country. I said L.A. Los Angeles.
BEHAR: But even Los Angeles --
SANGER: Oh, come on. It`s player town. Everybody knows it.
BEHAR: OK.
SANGER: Nobody`s getting married there, not even the straights.
BEHAR: What about Hohocus (ph), New Jersey, what about that?
SANGER: I bet you they`re all monogamous, living a beautiful, beautiful--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You have this fantasy of the suburbs that needs to be destroyed.
The new season of "The Millionaire Matchmaker" airs Thursday at 9:00 p.m. on Bravo. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
