Return to Transcripts main page

Joy Behar Page

Amanda Knox Goes Free; Michael Jackson Death Trial; Gene Simmons Finally Tied the Knot with Shannon Tweed; Michelle Obama Seen Shopping at Target; Life Begins at 50

Aired October 03, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Amanda Knox, the American convicted of murdering her roommate in Italy is going free. Joy will have latest details on the shocking appeal decision.

Then jurors in the Conrad Murray trial members hear testimony from the ER doctors who tried to revive Michael Jackson.

Joy will talk to Jackson`s former spiritual advisor Rabbi Shmuley about how this graphic testimony will affect Jackson`s children.

Plus can you have the best sex of your life after 50? Why some Baby Boomers are saying life really begins after middle age.

That and more starting right now.

JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Amanda Knox, an American girl who was sitting in jail in Italy for allegedly killing her roommate was set free today. She spent four years in prison there. Something tells me she`ll never eat another plate of spaghetti carbonara ever.

Here with me to discuss these dramatic developments is Matthew Chance, CNN correspondent who is in Perugia, Italy with the latest.

Matthew, Amanda Knox`s murder conviction was overturned. Tell me what that means for the girl.

MATTHEW CHANCE: Here in Perugia, she spent the last four years in jail -- in a prison just a short distance from here on the outskirts of Perugia. She was sentenced to 26 years for the killing of Meredith Kercher.

So now this jury after deliberating throughout the course of the day had decided to set her free, which means she`s out of the prison already. She already got in the car and been reunited with her family. They`ve issued a statement saying that she is on her way home to Seattle and will get there as soon as she can in the morning.

So it`s a huge turn of events for her and also for her former boyfriend, Rafaelle Sollecito who was acquitted at the same time.

BEHAR: Right. So now, can you describe the reactions to the verdict by her family and by Amanda herself?

CHANCE: Yes, I can because I was in the court when the acquittal was announced by the judge in this court in Perugia. Amanda was very stressed, she was very nervous right up until that point. And then when the acquittal came through, there were cheers and whoops from her family. All of them had gathered in the court to witness this.

Amanda herself just broke down. I mean she was absolutely hysterical. She had to be led out by the guards, she could barely walk. She was crying so much. She walked right past me and obviously just straight through into the prison van back to the jail to sign the papers for her release.

BEHAR: She spoke directly to the jurors in Italian earlier today and she pleaded her innocence in Italian. Do you think that that played a role in their decision? Do you think it helped?

CHANCE: I think it might have. It might have endeared her to the jury a little more. She`s obviously learned to speak Italian fluently in the four years she spent in prison here. She`s been thinking for months, we`re told by her parents, about what she was going to say in that address. Because it`s one of the unique things. In Italian law you`re allowed to stand up for 15 minutes and make that direct personal appeal, that plea of innocence. She did that to very good effect.

To what extent that was the reason why they acquitted her or if it was because of the evidence, some fundamentally flawed DNA evidence was brought up at this hearing, we just don`t know. But perhaps it was a combination of both the things.

BEHAR: You know, during the case, Amanda was painted as promiscuous, demonic, she called a "she devil". How are the Italians reacting to this verdict?

CHANCE: Well, I mean there`s two things there. You`re right. First of all, she was absolutely blackened in the trial and in the years since then.

Just the other day, in fact, in court, one of the prosecution lawyers was saying she`s got a split personality. She`s angelic on one side but she`s like Satan, she`s demonic on the other side. Absolutely ridiculous characterizations really.

You wouldn`t be able to say that in an American court without expert witnesses to back it up. Here, you can. And, you know, she always rejected that. She said she had been misrepresented in the media and misrepresented by the prosecution. She always said she was innocent.

Today, the jury in Perugia rectified the first trial and found her not guilty of killing Meredith Kercher.

BEHAR: Speaking of whom, the family of Meredith Kercher, the victim, was in court today. Have they spoken publicly yet.

CHANCE: They`ve issued a statement saying that they`re disappointed. But I was there in court with them, again -- and they were sitting right in front of me. It was Arlene Kercher, Meredith Kercher`s mother and Meredith Kercher`s sister, Stephanie Kercher, they were both there.

And when that acquittal came through, they were very, very upset. I mean Arlene didn`t cry, but you could see that the tears were welling up in her eyes. Stephanie actually broke down and the person next to her was comforting her. And that`s because all along they`ve believed that Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito were connected with the death of their loved one, Meredith Kercher. And they stressed time and time again that they wanted this jury to, you know, kind of uphold the original murder convictions. They didn`t get their own way and they`re obviously very upset by that.

But obviously our heart goes out to this family who, at the end of all of this, you know, have lost their daughter and their sister. And that`s I suppose, the tragedy of all of this.

BEHAR: Indeed. Ok. Thank you very much, Matthew.

Now, I`m bringing in my panel to discuss the legal aspects of the case: Marcia Clark, author of "Guilt by Association" and former O.J. Simpson prosecutor; and Richard Herman, criminal defense attorney. Marcia are you surprised this was overturned, the conviction?

MARCIA CLARK, FORMER O.J. SIMPSON PROSECUTOR: Not entirely. I mean it`s always a little bit of a surprise when you get a reversal. And yet this evidence was so decimated on appeal.

All of the independent experts -- and that`s really kind of an impressive thing in and of itself. These experts not necessarily aligned with either defense or prosecution but hired by the court to look into what had been done in the way of handling crime scene evidence. All of them pretty much uniformly said it was a mess. And you cannot say that the DNA evidence that they used to convict her really was associated with the crime.

So from an objective standpoint, it`s not surprising.

BEHAR: Richard, are you surprised?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not surprised, Joy. The entire prosecution case was gutted when the court suppressed all of the DNA evidence. There was no evidence to hold Knox at the crime scene. So when this happens the case is gone. There`s nothing left to go with.

And we know in 50 percent of the cases that go on appeal in Italy like this, 50 percent of them get some sort of reduction in sentence or the whole case gets thrown out. So we knew there was going to be some sort of reduction here. Whether she was going to be set free today. I didn`t think she would go home today, but she is. No more pasta and no more pizza for her, she`s out of there.

BEHAR: I know, it`s true. How did they get a conviction in the first place? Is it just the Italian system? She would never have gotten a conviction here, right?

CLARK: No, it`s unlikely. And I think that`s the difference Joy. And it`s an interesting thing. They have a different system. When they go to trial with their evidence, the other side doesn`t necessarily test the way they do here.

Here, before you go to trial, the defense tests it, it goes through a round of batteries of experts. By the time you get something into court, it`s been through the mill. Not there. They got stuff in after the fact, we find on appeal had never been properly handled and no one raised an issue about it. It wasn`t contested that way.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Go ahead.

HERMAN: That`s the integrity of their judicial system that it was on appeal. And they were able to have independent examination of that. But the case that came in against her was strong, Joy. It was -- people have been convicted in the United States with less evidence than that which convicted Knox. So it was the integrity of the Italian judicial system that allowed these independent examiners and scientists to come in and just basically suppress the evidence.

BEHAR: That`s interesting.

HERMAN: I mean you have to tip your hat to them.

BEHAR: What about the prosecutor? There`s some kind of --

HERMAN: He`s crazy.

BEHAR: Tell me about the prosecutor Richard. What do you know?

HERMAN: First of all, he`s already been convicted. He`s on appeal on some sort of issue similar to this case where he concocts these trysts, these sexual trysts. I don`t know what`s going through this guy`s mind but whatever it is he imputes them to the cases that he`s prosecuting.

Obviously he has way too much power. There were no checks and balances on this guy. He was able to bring this on theory that he concocted on his own with absolutely no corroboration.

CLARK: See, here`s the difference. And I think Richard raises a good point. They don`t seem to have the checks and balances at the trial level that we do here which is why so much is based upon what happens on appeal over there. And that`s why their appeal is like a retrial. Here, it`s not.

BEHAR: Yes. But meanwhile, you`re stuck in jail.

CLARK: Oh, yes. I`m not saying we should do it Joy. But you know -- yes.

BEHAR: The judge gave her three years time served, right?

CLARK: Yes.

BEHAR: But what about the year, the extra year? Are they going to give that back to her?

CLARK: They can`t give it back right?

BEHAR: Can she sue the Italian court system?

CLARK: You know, I don`t know what their system is in terms of civil lawsuits against the court. My guess would be -- major guess would be no because usually governments are immune from that kind of lawsuit.

But their system is balanced that way, where there`s much more credibility placed on the appeals process than at the trial level. We don`t do it that way here. It`s completely the opposite.

BEHAR: It`s fun to say that it`s great to have an appeals system like that meanwhile she`s been in jail.

CLARK: Yes, that`s the problem with it. Yes.

BEHAR: It seems ass-backwards, as they say.

CLARK: Yes. Yes.

BEHAR: Richard, what did you want to say? You were going to say something about that.

HERMAN: I`m just saying that, you know, again, you have to look to the integrity of it, Joy. Four years in prison, believe me, if she could sue them, she would not sue them. She wants nothing to do with anything in Italy, especially the courts right now. And I think her parents are still -- they were indicted on some sort of libel claim against the press there. So I don`t know how that`s going to will play out. But I think she`s had her fill of the Italian judicial system.

BEHAR: It`s too bad. It`s a beautiful country.

Thanks guys.

The latest on the Conrad Murray trial when we return.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next, shocking testimony from the ER doctors who tried to revive Michael Jackson. We`ll have all the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`ve been watching the Conrad Murray trial and I`ve got to say as an outsider looking in, things are not looking good for Conrad Murray. Watch what the ER physician had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RICHELLE COOPER, UCLA MEDICAL CENTER: Michael Jackson died long before he became a patient that I was responsible for. No, knowing even more information, it is unlikely with that information I would have been able to do something different that would have changed the outcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: With me now to talk about today`s developments are Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, former spiritual advisor to Michael Jackson and the author of "10 conversations You Need to Have with Yourself"; Marcia Clark, former O.J. Simpson prosecutor; and Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, a board certified internist. Welcome to the show.

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, BOARD CERTIFIED INTERNIST: Thank you.

BEHAR: Ok. This doctor was saying that he was DOA when he got there. That doesn`t look good for Murray, does it?

CLARK: No. No.

BEHAR: Why?

CLARK: It doesn`t help.

BEHAR: Tell me.

CLARK: Well, because it shows that he was -- the Propofol was administered and he was dead and there was nothing more that could be done by the time 911 was called. Remember, Joy, that there was a big delay and you had the assistants testifying last week about the fact that he called all the assistants and the security guards and didn`t call 911.

BEHAR: Right, right.

CLARK: In fact, it wasn`t until a security guard finally called 911. So there was a big delay. That delay is key to the prosecution showing he did everything but the appropriate thing to save Michael Jackson.

BEHAR: And he also, Dr. Jorge, he didn`t tell the ER doctor that he had given him the Propofol. What do you think about a doctor not telling that to another doctor? It seems outrageous to me.

RODRIGUEZ: Well, it`s outrageous. It`s malpractice. It`s definitely a break in doctor-to-doctor protocol. I mean we`re used to turning over patients in emergency rooms and in ICUs all the time. You tell them everything that has happened both good and bad because they have to build their decisions based on what was done. So it`s completely unjustified and unheard of, actually.

BEHAR: Unheard of. Right?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

BEHAR: And also, it`s a win for the prosecution, is it not?

CLARK: Huge. It`s huge. His failure to mention Propofol over and over again, let alone the very first time when he was talking to the emergency techs is a very important proof of consciousness of guilt. You know, this is not something you forget to tell.

BEHAR: Yes.

CLARK: You know, giving Propofol and especially under the conditions he did was very dangerous, and obvious cause of death. If you don`t tell that right up front, it`s not because it slipped your mind or it was a minor thing. This shows that he had a guilty conscious about what he`d done.

BEHAR: It`s kind of unbelievable.

And Rabbi Shmuley, you were Michael`s spiritual advisor. That`s what I understand, right? Why would he pick this Conrad Murray? What was up with that?

RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, FORMER SPIRITUAL ADVISOR OF MICHAEL JACKSON: As his rabbi, I tried to help him rehabilitate his life. It`s clear why he chose Conrad Murray. Michael suffered from deep loneliness and a sense of abandonment and isolation.

When I first got to know him in 1999, he was living a hermit-like existence at Neverland. And it took a lot of effort to give him a sense of purpose that his celebrity could be consecrated to a higher cause. But whenever he felt that pain and loneliness, he translated it as a physical ailment. So he turned to these fraudulent physicians who medicated the pain away when really he had to get to the root cause.

Now, so many of these physicians would never have been found out had Michael not died. It was clear he was headed in that direction. The fact is that they imperilled his life and Conrad Murray seems to have acted more like a pusher that physician.

BEHAR: Yes.

BOTEACH: But you have to understand also, in Michael`s mind, Joy, Michael always criticized to me these rock stars who slept with groupies and who had all these tattoos and took street drugs. In his mind, these weren`t drugs because they were being prescribed by a legitimate physician. Michael had a very wholesome self-image.

BEHAR: Ok. Dr. Rodriguez?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. You know what, Rabbi, I think you`re the first person that I`ve heard has mentioned that. Because to me, when I heard about the case, the first mistake in my opinion that Dr. Murray made was that he did what the patient wanted as opposed to remaining objective like a true physician should have, analyzed the situation and then done what he thought he should have.

He should have said -- all right, what`s wrong with this patient? Is he addicted to medication, does he have some sort of psychological problem. Instead, he went and gave him exactly what it was that he wanted, which was almost like saying "Hey, I want cyanide."

BEHAR: He seemed to be looking for enablers.

RODRIGUEZ: Of course. Absolutely.

BEHAR: So, how do you fit into that? Rabbi Shmuley, how do you fit --

BOTEACH: I can tell you a very quick story. I remember we took Michael to a cancer benefit here in New York and we go back to his hotel room and he says that his fans pushed him against the wall and hurt his back and he asked for a physician. We brought one of the most credible doctors in all of New York to see him. The doctor walks and says, "Michael asked me for a quantity of drugs that would kill an elephant." I walk in back to the bedroom and I said, "Michael, are out of your mind? You`re going to kill yourself with this stuff. You`re not being given it. You won`t and you won`t take it."

BEHAR: Yes.

BOTEACH: And he said "I have a very high tolerance for it." I said, "I don`t care what you have, you`re not going to get it." The next day he came to my house for the Shabat (ph) Friday night dinner and he stood throughout dinner because he said that his back still hurt him. But he had absorbed the message. He didn`t take anything to numb that pain. He learned to live with his pain.

The problem is if you have the wrong people around him who said yes. Look as far as I`m concerned, the opening defense argument -- the opening statement was such an indictment by Mr. Chernoff of his client when he actually said that Michael revealed to Conrad Murray when he first took this assignment that "I only sleep with Propofol." And Murray said, "Ok, I`ll try to wean him off it but I`ll give it to him."

What if Michael said I only sleep with a giant axe being lodged in my head, would he have done that, too?

BEHAR: Exactly. Exactly.

RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely.

BOTEACH: I mean talk about destructive behavior on the part of a physician. This stuff happens every single day in the world of celebrity and fame and it`s time that we stopped it by sending people to jail.

BEHAR: Ok. But Murray --

RODRIGUEZ: If I could just --

BEHAR: Go ahead -- go ahead, Dr. Rodriguez.

RODRIGUEZ: I was going to say Rabbi, it isn`t just in the world of celebrity and fame. Physicians are under pressure all the time from people in their communities, from people who they don`t want to lose as patients to give them what they want. And now with the age of misinformation on the Internet, you have no idea how many people call already telling me what antibiotics they want without me even seeing them.

It`s a small scale but it`s the same issue. The physician has to be a doctor.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: What about the $150,000 he was getting a month to be his physician?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

CLARK: This goes back to the same issue we were talking about as being a pusher. You know, you`re hiring me and now, he basically is being paid to furnish him with drugs. That`s it. He`s a supplier.

BEHAR: Ok. We`ll have more on the Conrad Murray trial after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: We`re back talking about the Michael Jackson death trial. Ok. Did you hear the -- Rabbi, this is for you. Listen to the recording of Michael Jackson slurring his speech. I want you to hear this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: We have to be phenomenal. When people leave this show -- when people leave my show, I want them to say I`ve never seen anything like this in my life. Go. Go.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BEHAR: Rabbi, did you ever hear Michael talk like that when you`re in his company?

BOTEACH: I heard Michael slur some words especially when he was around fraudulent doctors who were treating him for broken feet, for spider bites, believe it or not, but never that bad. And what that shows you is that more people should have been indicted. Because if he was in that state, a lot of people saw that he`s body had become a walking pharmacy.

But he was a cash cow who was going to generate huge profits for concert promoters and managers. And they basically made a human being into a guinea pig in order to line their pockets. It`s disgusting and I`m wondering why only one person was indicted.

BEHAR: Ok. Dr. Rodriguez, you know, Murray -- the phone records are showing that Conrad Murray was texting while Michael was in the other room. I guess he was dead at that point, right? What about that?

RODRIGUEZ: You know what -- that`s exactly the point that I wanted to make. First of all, there`s an old saying in medicine, you don`t turn your back on a woman in labor or on a patient who`s sedated because anything could happen at any minute. So the fact that he wasn`t there, right now, it indicts him.

But in my opinion, one of two things happened when he came back into the room. Either Michael Jackson was already dead, which makes sense to me because that`s why he didn`t do anything, he went to talk to the chef because the other scenario is even more heinous. If he came back into the room and Michael Jackson was alive but dying and still had breath and still had a pulse --

BEHAR: Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: -- and Dr. Murray did not start CPR on him at that moment and waited 30 minutes for the paramedics to arrive, to me, I mean really that`s almost homicidal. I mean I`m not a lawyer but to leave someone die is even worse in my opinion --

BEHAR: He didn`t know how to do CPR.

(CROSSTALK)

RODRIGUEZ: He`s a cardiologist. That man is a cardiologist. That is what -- that is his bread and butter. If anybody knows how to do CPR, it`s a cardiologist.

BEHAR: I know that, Dr. Rodriguez.

RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

BEHAR: But that is almost like the most ridiculous part of this whole story is a cardiologist doesn`t know how to do CPR when people who are in this room know how to do knit.

RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely.

CLARK: But the theory is that he said that in order to make sure others could help him give CPR. In other words, he wasn`t asking, does any know CPR, show me how. He was going to do it but he was going to need somebody to relieve him.

RODRIGUEZ: But Marcia.

CLARK: But on the second -- the second scenario, you`re talking about Doctor, I don`t believe that that was the case that he actually let Michael die knowing that he could still be revived.

RODRIGUEZ: I don`t either.

CLARK: Yes, I know you don`t.

And that probably would be a second degree murder or at least close to it. But the reason it`s criminal negligence and not just a malpractice suit is because the level of care dropped so far below anything that a reasonable physician would give.

Here, you`re talking about conduct absolutely reckless, leaving a patient on Propofol alone in the room without adequate monitoring and going out and talking to a girlfriend for half an hour -- that alone.

BOTEACH: Absolutely. You know what --

BEHAR: I got to go. Thank you, Dr. Rodriguez. Thank you guys.

We`ll be right back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next, Gene Simmons and Shannon Tweed tie the knot after 28 years. So, was it true love or just a publicity stunt?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: After 28 years and two kids together, KISS rocker Gene Simmons finally tied the knot with Shannon Tweed this weekend in Beverly Hills.

With me now to talk about this, another POP culture stories in the new, our Chuck Nice, comedian and the hose of the new show "Price Displays" coming to HGTV this November. Carrie Keagan, host of VH1 "big morning`s buzz, live" and Chris March, star of "Mad Fashion" on bravo.

OK, guys, so he proposed on camera. They got married on camera. Is this true love?

CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: I think it is, because Gene Simmons truly loves publicity. It is his truest love of all.

CHRIS MARCH, STAR, MAD FASHION: Come on, wouldn`t you marry that tongue? Why didn`t you marry Steve?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: My wedding was completely private, as you know. I did not do anything about it.

CARRIE KEAGAN, HOST, BIG MORNING BUZZ LIVE: Nothing says love, like in any film crew. Nothing so bad.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: After they were on my show last - how long ago was that? Last year? I don`t remember. She walked off the show because she was ticked off at him, I thought, is that fake or isn`t it fake? Is this marriage fake or isn`t it fake? I really can`t tell with these two, frankly.

KEAGAN: its 28 years. I think they`re definitely in love. I don`t know he would find anybody who put up with his crap like she does. And I`ve actually had dinner with them. You know, I hang out with them. You see them together. She definitely is a woman who can put him in his place. And she might be the only one besides his mother who can do so.

BEHAR: They had an open relationship, Chuck. You know, will they continue to do that after marriage? I don`t know.

NICE: No. Because that`s what he`s going to find out that you know there`s a saying, no hooping, no stooping. And another`s another saying hooping, no stooping. So -

(LAUGHTER)

KEAGAN: Then again, he said they had an open relationship. I don`t believe she ever said that have an open relationship. I don`t think she ever agreed to it.

BEHAR: So, he had it but she didn`t.

KEAGAN: I think -

NICE: That`s normally how it works.

MARCH: I think they`re low rent Osborne`s and you got to do something to stay on TV. I mean -

BEHAR: They are the low rent Osborne`s? What are the osbournes?

(LAUGHTER)

MARCH: Well, that remains to be seen.

BEHAR: Alright, let`s move on. GOP presidential hopeful Rick Perry is coming under fire for a sign at his Texas hunting camp that used to have the "N" word on it. OK? Chuck, your thoughts.

NICE: Yes. The ranch was called rhymes with bigger head so we don`t have to bleep this out. It rhymes with bigger heard and so, it was leased by his family and so, it was already named that. And people are like, is he a racist? I think what it speaks to more importantly is this comfort level that he has with an antiquated socially unacceptable status quo that has passed. And I think it also shows, in keeping with the fact he is this Texas swagger, I`m the governor of this state, I don`t have to change the name bigger head, if I want to have friends at bigger head, I`ll have friends at bigger head, pow-pow pow-pow.

(LAUGHTER)

MARCH: Is he antiquated or you just like super cool?

NICE: You mean like 50 cent?

MARCH: I don`t think he`s super cool.

BEHAR: First of all, they said they painted it over back in the day. But if you can still see the word through that, why can`t they paint it in black or remove the rock?

KEAGAN: Because if they painted it in black, it would be racist.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: OK. Perhaps they don`t care enough to remove it. It`s possible.

KEAGAN: its history, I think that`s the problem. A landmark kind of thing and people in Texas don`t want to touch anything -

BEHAR: Like the confederate flag, they feel that way about that, too.

NICE: Yes. I don`t mind the confederate flag. It was on general lee and "dukes of hazard".

MARCH: If I was president, wouldn`t you have that removed, just like clean all that kind of stuff out of the world.

BEHAR: Doesn`t that seem like they used it against him now? HIs opponent in the Republican Party?

KEAGAN: But politicians should be allowed to be who they are? Don`t you think?

BEHAR: You mean, if they`re racist, they should be president, no.

KEAGAN: I didn`t say I would vote for him.

BEHAR: But I mean, they can be who they are but they are not going get any vote.

NICE: If you look at elements of the tea party, this may actually give them a bigger head bump you know as it may be.

BEHAR: Well, Herman Cain came out against it, he doesn`t like it. But that`s just in fighting now. What about the use of the "n" word? I mean how do you feel about it?

NICE: You know for me, personally, I don`t appreciate it you know. And I like it. I think it`s a funny word as a comedian. You know growing up, listening to Richard Pryor, I mean he made that word so funny.

BEHAR: But you know I know that if you`re African-American, you probably can use it. If you`re white, I don`t think you could.

NICE: No.

BEHAR: But does it give permission when the black community uses it, does it then give permission to others to use it?

NICE: I think some people think it is a tacit approval of any using the word because black people use it. But I have a friend of mine who says, damn, white people can`t let us have anything you know not even a horrible word like nigger.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: It`s true in a way.

KEAGAN: If it said cracker head, would it have been as big a deal?

BEHAR: No. Cracker head, no. White people, no.

MARCH: You can`t remove any word from the English language. Because I think if you do so, then you`re not going to know who your enemies are. I think you can become sensitive to using it or not using it and the kind of people who do or don`t use it. But if you take it away, you are not going to know who hates you to your face.

NICE: I like that.

BEHAR: Here`s another story really earth shattering. Martha Stewart`s daughter, Alexis has written a tell-all book about her mother. And apparently tells all including that Martha liked to go to the bathroom with the door open. I wonder if Martha would consider this a good thing.

KEAGAN: She was just gearing up for prison.

BEHAR: Do we need to hear Miss Carrie that should she share the mere pees with the door open? Really? I mean, come on.

KEAGAN: Yes. Because she`s Martha Stewart and we need to know she`s normal. And she was like a human being and she done weird things and -

(CROSSTALK)

KEAGAN: I pee with the door open all the time.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You know what Chuck, white people (inaudible)

(LAUGHTER)

MARCH: That`s all she`s got on her mother, peeing with the door open? Where`s the wire hangers.

KEAGAN: There was no actual beating. They didn`t get to celebrate Halloween.

MARCH: Let`s face it; she`s been like making money off her mother a long time.

BEHAR: She didn`t make the Halloween costumes and she made the kid wrap her own Christmas present. This is for Miss Craft.

(CROSSTALK)

NICE: You have to know to wrap your own gifts, I`m Martha Stewart. You`re my daughter. Wrap that. Let me see (inaudible)

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: That`s true. I know. I guess that`s true. Let`s move onto the next story.

Michelle Obama was spotted shopping incognito in a D.C. area target last week wearing a baseball hat and sunglasses. Now Chris, why does she have to shop - Chris, whatever, whoever, why does she have to shop at target, why?

NICE: You know I think it`s a good thing she`s shopping at target, not for President Obama because it really shows how bad the economy is that the first lady is at target.

BEHAR: Well, they`re saying it was a setup, that there was an AP photographer there. Do you think it was a setup?

MARCH: I do. Well, I think Michelle Obama went to target the same reason every woman does, because their tampons were probably on sale.

(LAUGHTER)

KEAGAN: I think there was a two for one sale on public opinion. That`s why she went in. Blue light special.

MARCH: Bringing a video camera with her, of course it was set up.

BEHAR: She probably the kind of person you know she wants to be normal and do her thing. And she really can`t. Maybe she needs to understand she can`t go to target and be unnoticed, that the AP photographer is going to follow her there.

KEAGAN: But she was incognito. She had her sunglasses on and put a Hawaiian shirt.

BEHAR: But you see it gives grist to the Republicans who don`t like her and want to go after her. They say it`s a phoney-baloney move.

NICE: But they will say it is no matter what she does. If she was seen shopping at Tiffany`s, then they would say that she`s austancious (ph) butt hole for shoving it in the face of America during these perilous times. So, regardless what she does, there will be some opposition from that side regardless.

BEHAR: Right.

MARCH: Do you think Michelle Obama really needs to shop at target, really?

BEHAR: And she bought Lysol.

NICE: OK, now, it is definitely a set-up. Now, she`s certainly in the White House cleaning toilets.

BEHAR: Lysol. I mean don`t they have cleaning products in the White House?

MARCH: Maybe Martha Stewart came over.

(LAUGHTER)

NICE: And used the bathroom with the door open.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: They say that she also was wearing clothes - she wears clothes from the G.A.P. and the crew, J. Crew and everything else. She`s a regular person. I can`t picture Nancy Reagan shopping at targets, could you?

NICE: No. No. I wouldn`t want to see her at target. I would think the end of the world was coming if I saw Nancy Reagan at a target.

BEHAR: Nancy Reagan did the opposite when we were in a bad financial situation, she just spent money. She did the opposite and she took plenty of flak for that too.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: She had two sets of dishes. I thought what is she kosher? Nancy Reagan is Jewish?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Alright, thank you guys. You can catch Chris March on "Mad Fashion" premiering tomorrow night on Bravo. And Carrie on VH1"Big Morning Buzz, Live" returning on October 17th. Busy, busy, busy. We`ll be right back.

Coming up, the truth about sex after 50. Good news you don`t want to miss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: They used to say life begins at 40. But according to my next guest, it begins at 50 along with menopause and arthritis. Rita Wilson and Arianna Huffington have created a new Web site designed specifically for baby boomers called huff-post 50.

Joining me now, actress, producer and editor at large, a pop-post 50, Rita Wilson and Arianna Huffington, president and editor in chief of the "Huffington Post." Welcome, ladies.

So, I read Bill Maher`s post today on your site about life at 50. He`s in his 50s now, mid-50s somewhere. This is what he write, part of it. "This is the first time in your life that you can see over the crest of the mountain and down into the valley below, you know death."

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: OK. It`s a really up piece bill has come up with. Is it because he`s over 50 or is it because he`s a depressive? What does this mean?

RITA WILSON, ACTRESS, PRODUCER, EDITOR AT LASRGE FOR HUFF POSTS: Well, I think when you`re younger, you have an idea the world is yours and time is never going to end.

BEHAR: Right.

WILSON: And then you hit a certain point and you think, OK, wow, let me look at that calendar for a little bit. And you begin to see that it`s limited, it`s not jus I mean really life is limited anyways. I mean you can drop dead crossing the street. But I think people start reassessing what they`re going to do in that next third of their life. But he writes about it very humorously.

BEHAR: Yes. Well, you have to laugh. As the grim reaper is breathing down your neck, you might as well laugh.

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, PRESIDENT, EDITOR IN CHIEF, HUFFINGTON POST: It`s like he does appreciate life more. That even though his body doesn`t exactly operate the same way, he said you get a cut and it didn`t heal as fast, et cetera. But you have a sense of the end of life I mean that is the whole point of knowing that death will come. It`s not a morbid thing. You know Greeks -

BEHAR: Is that what put you together?

HUFFINGTONN: That was a big deal because, you know, first of all, Socrates you know a Greek compatriot. He said practice death daily.

BEHAR: Who said that?

HUFFINGTONN: Socrates.

BEHAR: Socrates. Did you ever date him, Arianna?

(LAUGHTER)

HUFFINGTONN: Unfortunately he was into young boys.

BEHAR: That`s true. You were out.

HUFFINGTONN: I was definitely out.

BEHAR: So, you should think about death daily.

HUFFINGTONN: Yes. The idea of that is that then everything in perspective. You don`t worry about the little things. God, one day we will all going to be dead. Do we really need to worry about the things we worry about every day? You know, all the things we worry about that don`t even happen. You know that famous saying there were many terrible things in my life but most of them never happened. So you know over 50, you have a sense of perspective about it.

BEHAR: Nobody ever wants to die. I was watching Andy Rooney on Sunday and he`s like, well, I`m 98, whatever the hell he is. I don`t want to die. I don`t want to die. But, listen - you know.

WILSON: Well, that`s the thing. I think it`s an assessment at a certain age, where you just say, all right, if I only have, in my head, "X" amount of years left how do I want to spend them? . What do I want to do? And I think one of the - some of the things we will hear about and already started hearing about, is that sometimes change or looking at your future or something you choose to do differently, to changing up your life, and sometimes change comes because it`s forced on you or necessity. And I still see a lot of people taking those sorts of things that happened to them and saying, OK, well it`s as bad as it can get. What am I going to do now?

BEHAR: A lot of people are losing their jobs. So for women, I mean this conversation is important for a lot of people, but particularly for women, I think, who are getting divorced at 40, like I did. I was broke at 40. I got fired. I was divorced. I had nothing when I was 39 or 40. I was on unemployment insurance and said I will do what I have to do now. So I changed my life.

WILSON: What did you do?

BEHAR: I got up on stage and did stand-up comedy.

WILSON: There you go.

BEHAR: I worked in jersey for 50 bucks a night in front of three drunks. I mean that`s how I did.

WILSON: You were out of your comfort zone.

BEHAR: Thrust out of it.

WILSON: Exactly. And sometimes that could be a positive thing.

HUFFINGTONN: There should be a platform where people can come together and discover like a tribe of people at a similar age for different reasons looking at their lives again and reinventing themselves.

BEHAR: But you guys have changed something in mid-life right, what did you change?

WILSON: At 49 years old, I did "Chicago." I did a musical and it is something I always wanted to do. And it actually terrified me. And I uttered the words one day to my agents and the next day, I had an offer. It was almost -

BEHAR: That`s scary.

WILSON: I can`t do this.

BEHAR: Be careful what you wish for.

WILSON: Be careful what you wish for. I went to do the show and I turned to Tom, my husband in the middle of the show and said I can`t do this. There is no way I can do this. He was like, are you insane? You have to do this. So actually, my daughter said the same thing, you have to do this. And it was definitely not my comfort zone.

BEHAR: What about you? What did you do?

HUFFINGTONN: Before I say that, I saw Rita in Chicago, and frankly, that was what gave me the idea to ask her to help create this item with the editor at large because it was amazing to me, embodied what I wanted the site to be, the hoot-spa, to take on a big challenge late in life. My big challenge was launching the "Huffington Post." I was 54. And literally, even the people who loved me most were saying to me, don`t do that. That`s a huge risk.

You know, the Internet is for young. It is for young people, not for people over 50. What are you doing? Who needs that?

WILSON: And extraordinary in six years what you accomplished. You didn`t know what it was going to be.

BEHAR: It`s gotten bigger. You merged with AOL right, and a big comeglomrat (ph). Now, you like a big Muckity-Muck (ph).

WILSON: She was when she was 53.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Alright, we`ll continue this in just momento.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEP CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Sally O`Malley. I am proud to say I am 50 years old. Not one of those gals that hides her age. I like to kick, stretch and kick! I`m 50! 50 years old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: That was Molly Shannon as the 50-year-old Sally O`Malley. Wish I could kick that high. I don`t think I can. I am back with my guests, Arianna Huffington and Rita Wilson, talking about being more than 50 now.

What about sex after 50 and dating after 50, how do you and Tom Hanks keep it hot. Do you role play, you will be in a school girl outfit, he will be like Private Ryan and you`ll meet in garage (ph) somewhere? I mean what do you two do?

WILSON: Wait, I just want to tell you something speaking of costumes. Look at what he made me wear in "that thing you do." do your research.

HUFFINGTON: I need a picture of that.

BEHAR: What about sex after 50?

WILSON: Arianna?

HUFFINGTON: We have a great article on the post today about sex after 60. And the whole point is that nothing is ever over.

BEHAR: Right.

HUFFINGTON: And whether it is your dreams or your sex life, the most important thing is to stop judging ourselves because while we`re young, you know, we spend so much time; we exhaust ourselves second guessing everything, doubting ourselves. I watch my daughters. You know, they`re 20 and 22. And self doubt something endemic in our lives, especially as women, right? And when you get older, it is just wonderful to be freed from that.

BEHAR: That`s the pleasure about it. Then men in the 50s and 60s, they want to date 25-year-old women. Girls your daughters` age, how does that hit you?

HUFFINGTON: You know if they want to date 25 years old, they should date 25 years old.

BEHAR: Pickings are slim for women over 60 trying to find a guy.

HUFFINGTON: First of all, life is not about finding a guy.

BEHAR: I know that. Find a woman now, become a lesbian.

(LAUGHTER)

HUFFINGTON: That happens to a lot of women, it does.

BEHAR: What is that about?

WILSON: It is a hormonal change. It is a shift. I believe somewhere between 48 and 54, a woman`s brain actually grows, and things happen in there, like a teenage adolescent brain. Why is everybody laughing so hard?

BEHAR: So, you don`t think it is something you`re born this way and all that stuff, it might change?

WILSON: I think you`re born that way, but I think for women in particular, I think there`s a shift that happens.

HUFFINGTONN: But women can create amazing things. That`s one of the things that happen. Children grow up, have more free time. What do they do with that? And to go back to what you said earlier. A lot of women are losing their jobs. A lot of men are losing their jobs.

BEHAR: You know what I always I always say, no risk is a risk. You have to take some kind of a risk when you`re in mid life and you need to change something. Thank you very much, ladies. Very interesting and we will check out the huff post 50. OK.

Be sure to stick around for "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," which is up next. A.J. Hammer will have an exclusive look at how Michael Jackson`s mother is holding up through the trial. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody!

END