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Joy Behar Page
Michael Jackson Death Trial; Interview with William Shatner
Aired October 05, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, after Conrad Murray`s girlfriends stole the show in yesterday`s proceedings, today`s testimony in the Michael Jackson`s death trial focused on forensic evidence. We`ll have a sleep expert explain how insomnia could have driven Jackson to such extreme measures.
Then Donald Trump says the newly free Amanda Knox could be a big star. So will she have an easier time cashing in than Casey Anthony?
Plus William Shatner tells Joy how he made Rush Limbaugh cry and why he thinks Charlie Sheen has turned a corner.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: A rather startling audio recording was played in court today during the Conrad Murray trial. Let`s listen to Michael Jackson as he talks about helping kids and about his tragic childhood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I love them. I love them because I didn`t have a childhood. I had no childhood. I feel their pain. I feel their hurt. I can deal with it. "Heal the World", "We are the World", "Will You Be There", "The Lost Children". These are the songs I`ve written because I hurt, you know. I hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here with the latest from the trial is Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" on TruTV. Ryan, that is some recording. How revealing is that recording? What does it tell us?
RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION": Oh, it`s very -- it tells us a bunch of different things. First of all, Michael Jackson talked about how he wanted to build a children`s hospital. How he wanted to help children because he felt their pain as you just heard there.
He wanted to sort of reach out and give them something that they could live with and also that they could get out of their sickness and get out of their depression. He seemed to be so focused helping children.
The background of all this is Conrad Murray recorded this conversation in May, about six weeks before Michael Jackson died. And I guess on the prosecution side, they`re trying to show that Dr. Murray, this was part of his treatment. That he wasn`t treating his patient so well, but you could argue on the defense side, here is a Michael Jackson that`s seemingly intoxicated. And although he`s talking about his dreams and pain he feels, in many ways, it seems as if he`s under the influence and maybe this doctor was trying to help him.
BEHAR: But the prosecution played it. What are they trying to do with it?
SMITH: They`re really -- you know it`s an interesting question. We`ve been debating this. They`re really trying to show that this is Dr. Murray`s treatment. That Michael Jackson may have been a sick person with an addiction here and this doctor keeps him in this state.
Because during this conversation, there are parts where Dr. Murray -- when Michael Jackson is talking about helping children he`s in this seemingly intoxicated state and Dr. Murray says," I know, Michael, tell me more", and it`s almost as if he`s encouraging him to keep talking like this.
And the statement -- I think they`re hoping to show the jury that hey, this isn`t the way a doctor should treat his patient especially in terms of recording it.
BEHAR: But why did he record it anyway? I still can`t figure that out exactly. Why would Murray record this? And have it on his iPhone. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: You scratch your hand over that one, Joy. It`s a question I`ve been asking since we heard it on opening statements. I`m going to give you one possible avenue here. It could be that this doctor -- he was very mobile in his practice. He had practices in California, Las Vegas and in Texas. But he moved around a lot and a lot of times you`re analyzing patients and maybe what you might do is record a tape of them to give yourself a baseline or get a sense of what this patient is like. That`s one thought.
The other thought, of course, from the prosecution perspective is why would you do this anyway? Are you trying to hide something? Are you trying to get something on tape to show how bad this patient was off? Are you really helping him?
But really, there is no answer. We can never really know why he made this recording.
BEHAR: Do you know what he was on? Do we have any idea what it was. Was it the Propofol or was it Demerol? What was it?
SMITH: We don`t know what he was on at this time. Now, I will tell you there have been reports that at this time he was taking Propofol, he was taking other drugs, he was being prescribed these drugs. But on this particular tape in court it was not said what exactly he was taking that put him in this kind of state.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Thanks, Ryan, good to hear from you.
SMITH: Sure.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, we want to bring in Mark Geragos, defense attorney and former attorney for Michael Jackson; and Vito Colucci private detective and former Connecticut police officer.
Mark, you heard the recording today. What was your reaction to it?
MARK GERAGOS, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL JACKSON: My reaction -- I was just telling Ryan here a minute ago, the prosecution came out I thought incredibly strong and I don`t think this helps them. I just think this plays right into the defense case. If I were them, I`d put on the coroner, I`d play the tape of the interview and I would rest. I don`t think that -- I think that there`s a tendency to over-try cases. So far, they`ve gotten in, they got out, they got their character assassination in yesterday. They should just get his statements on and get out of this thing.
BEHAR: Really? So they could cut the whole trial short?
GERAGOS: Yes. I just don`t see the point. What they wanted to establish is that he was grossly negligent.
BEHAR: Right.
GERAGOS: They`ve established, you know, various baselines for that. They`re going to have, if you believe the defense, a witness the defense is going to call, who`s the so-called "father of Propofol", they`ll be able to cross-examine him. They don`t need to do some of this stuff. I thought it was one too baby mommas as witnesses yesterday, one too many baby mommas and they`ve got -- I think that these tapes aren`t going to help them.
BEHAR: I see. Ok.
Vito, let me ask you, you`re a former cop. Why do you think Conrad Murray did these recordings in the first place? Why?
VITO COLUCCI, FORMER CONNECTICUT POLICE OIFFICER: You know, you have to remember something. Who was he handling? He`s handling Michael Jackson, one of the biggest names in the whole world. Now, I know there`s privilege between a doctor and patient. But what`s to stop him from taping it, putting it away in a file cabinet for whatever use down the road.
But like Mark said, it could also be just to protect himself, it`s initial. He wants to show what kind of dialogue he had with Jackson. I don`t agree with Mark in the sense of this tape hat was played. It could help the prosecution. Because I`ve sat, just like Mark, front row in many high profile jury trials. The prosecution wants the jury to say, "My God, isn`t that terrible what this doctor did to him?"
Meanwhile, the defense will yell and scream. That was three weeks before or something. That`s not the day he died, has no relevance to the day he died.
BEHAR: I see. They`ll probably throw it out?
COLUCCI: I don`t know. It`s hard to say.
GERAGOS: I think what jurors will do with this is arguably, they can say, look, he was recording this to show Michael was in a state prior to him ever putting him out with the Propofol. This whole case comes down to causation. You have to show, as grossly negligent as he was as a doctor, it doesn`t matter if he didn`t cause the death.
If he`s on something else then I highly doubt that it`s going to be Propofol that he`s going to be able to talk because if he was on the Propofol, that would have knocked him out, he wouldn`t be sitting there talking.
BEHAR: Right. That`s true. That`s right.
COLUCCI: But, Mark-
GERAGOS: This tends to show he`s ingesting something else.
COLUCCI: Yes, but Mark, when he -- how about the lie? I think the biggest mistake he did was the lie he told the doctor in the emergency room, in the hospital, that Michael was not on anything. Don`t you think that`s going to come back and haunt him a little bit?
GERAGOS: Well, as always happens in these cases, it`s when somebody opens their mouth that you end up as a defense lawyer cleaning up after it. The problem is, still, the jury is going to get a jury instruction that says did he basically cause the death. You have to say he caused the death. You can have him do stupid stuff. If he didn`t cause the death, it doesn`t matter.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, Vito, there was a forensics examiner on the stand. He spoke of Jackson`s aliases, which he reportedly -- apparently he had 13. I have a list of them here. Who needs 13 aliases, Vito?
COLUCCI: Well, what happens Joy, I do a lot of cases and a lot of times I`ve escorted a lot of celebrities, worked security for them. When they go to hotels or sign in at private parties, many times, they`ll use a certain alias for a month or three months. Then they`ll change it to another one and another one. So I`m not too surprised at that. Because when I do what`s called a comprehensive check on an individual on a computer which is just for cops and ex-cops I find aliases. Sometimes there`s none and sometimes there`s many and a lot of times, they`re celebrities or very high-end people, Joy.
BEHAR: Well, they were different. With Conrad Murray, the aliases were Omar Arnold, Paul Ferranz. With Dr. Klein, it was Fernan Diaz. He had different names for different doctors so I would think that he would need for prescriptions maybe although I wonder if these doctors even had to give him a prescription.
You know what I mean? The Propofol just came. I don`t know if you need a prescription for all that.
COLUCCI: Joy, I can tell you, I do my work in Fairfield County, Connecticut, probably the richest county in the entire country. I`ve worked cases against doctors for the very rich, for the celebrities. They don`t have the same rules we have, Joy. These doctors get pills from Texas, all other states. I`ve done cases where we got the discovery, there`s 300 pills of this, 500 of this. They don`t have the same guidelines we have that we have to abide to, Joy.
BEHAR: Ok. Mark, does Dr. Murray need to take the stand? Would you put him on?
GERAGOS: No. I don`t think so. I don`t think so.
I think when they play his tape, his story is going to be out there. I don`t think at this point the defense is going to put him on. I could be wrong. If they think that they`ve lost everything after the prosecution rests, they might. But at this point, I don`t think that they feel that way. My guess is that they don`t put him on the stand.
BEHAR: Ok and by the way, happy birthday, Mark. I hear it`s your birthday.
GERAGOS: Well, thank you, Joy and yours in two days.
BEHAR: How do you know that? Have you been Googling me?
GERAGOS: I follow you -- I follow you closely. I follow you closer.
COLUCCI: Joy, he hired me, Joy. He hired me.
BEHAR: Vito knows everything. Ok, thank you, guys. And we`ll have much more on the Conrad Murray trial. Sit tight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next, a top sleep expert explains what was really behind Michael Jackson`s battle with insomnia.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The trial of Dr. Conrad Murray has raised questions of Michael`s insomnia and why Murray was treating it by injecting Michael with a surgical anesthetic Propofol.
Joining me now to talk about this and more are Mark Geragos, a defense attorney and Dr. Michael Breus also known as the "sleep doctor", who is a clinical psychologist who specializes in sleep disorders.
Ok, let me start with you, doctor, you`re the sleep doctor.
MICHAEL BREUS. PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Sure.
BEHAR: Have you ever heard of Propofol as a treatment for insomnia?
BRUCE: I have never heard of that being used before.
BEHAR: No.
BRUCE: I can`t even think of an extreme case where it would seem like an appropriate use.
BEHAR: So you`ve never prescribed it as a -- as a drug to put someone to sleep.
BREUS: No that`s a medication that`s used by anesthesiologist and veterinarians and that`s about it.
BEHAR: Veterinarians.
BREUS: Yes.
BEHAR: Anesthesiologists, would you use it for a colonoscopy?
BREUS: You could use it for a colonoscopy, sure.
BEHAR: I see. What do you think about Dr. Murray doing that?
BREUS: Well, I don`t know the specifics of the case. But I can tell you in my experience and I`ve dealt with some very severe cases of insomnia before, I can`t imagine how it would be appropriate to go to that type of a medication for use.
Insomnia is a complicated process. And there are people that can have various types of insomnia. So there`s a lot of different medications out there and even behavioral treatments out there that are available for insomnia depending upon what type you have. You know all insomnia isn`t the same.
So in this particular case, it seems almost inappropriate to be able to do something like that.
BEHAR: But let`s talk about insomnia for a second.
BREUS: Sure.
BEHAR: I mean, I know people, one case I`m thinking of is a guy who couldn`t sleep for two or three weeks, somebody I know very -- I knew very well, he shot himself. I mean it can be a very, very serious mental condition when you cannot sleep, right? It`s a serious thing.
I mean, Cheney -- they used it as torture.
(CROSSTALK)
BREUS: Right.
BEHAR: Sleep deprivation on terrorist suspects. It`s a terrible, terrible thing. So tell me about it.
BREUS: And most people don`t realize, but there are several types of insomnia. So there`s the "I can`t fall asleep" insomnia, there`s the "I can`t stay asleep" insomnia and then there`s the "I wake up early for no reason" insomnia.
There`s -- it`s a very complicated situation. It can be secondary to another medical situation, it can be caused by other medications. And there`s a huge mental component to this. I would say 75 percent of my patients who have insomnia either have some form of depression or anxiety.
So we know that it`s being fueled mentally and in some cases even physically. So it can be an incredibly complicated situation.
BEHAR: So it could have driven Michael to extreme measures then, right?
BREUS: Well, I can tell you this, I`ve seen people in my practice who`ve had severe enough insomnia where they`ve made some really poor decisions. So a classic example is somebody and this is something that happens all the time --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
BREUS: -- is somebody who is up all night, they can`t fall asleep. And then what happens? They`ve got to drive a carpool in the morning, so they get in a vehicle with a child, they haven`t had the proper amount of sleep. We know that lack of sleep and massive sleep deprivation slows reaction time, we know it changes your decision-making.
BEHAR: Right.
BREUS: And it makes you cranky and moody. So there`s a lot of different things and this can go on for days in some people.
BEHAR: Sometimes longer.
BREUS: Yes, absolutely.
BEHAR: Right.
Now Mark, could Michael`s insomnia be part of the defense strategy that insomnia made Michael crazy?
GERAGOS: I think that part of what the defense is trying to say or suggest is that, look this is somebody who is desperate to get to sleep. That`s one of the reasons that he ingested the Propofol. That Dr. Murray was there trying to wean him off of it. And I don`t know that there`s -- necessarily weighting themselves to the addictive quality as much as the idea that he wanted to get to sleep or turn his brain off.
Some of the most brilliant people I`ve met have suffered from this affliction. And it`s -- and they always described it at least to me as a lay person anecdotally, as "I just can`t turn my brain off."
BEHAR: Yes, that`s -- that`s probably true.
BREUS: And you know what, Mark, that is the number one complaint that I hear in my office.
BEHAR: I can`t turn my brain off.
BREUS: I can`t turn my brain off. And I teach people different techniques --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They ruminate.
BREUS: Exactly and --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: People ruminate.
BREUS: -- and what happens is -- is that rumination causes overall physiological arousal, your body gets tense, you get hyped up, adrenaline starts pumping and then you`re not going to fall asleep. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
BEHAR: Yes.
BREUS: I think about sleep too much, now I can`t sleep, now I can`t sleep even more and I think about sleep too much.
BEHAR: Ok let`s talk about sedatives for a second. Because I remember Mark, you -- do you remember back in the day the only sedative anybody ever heard of was Sominex, I think.
GERAGOS: Right.
BEHAR: Nowadays, every commercial they`ve butterflies flying around to get you to sleep.
GERAGOS: Right, right.
BEHAR: Lunesta (ph), Ambien which people have -- get up in the middle of the night and eaten an entire roast pork and don`t even realize it. I mean they`ve got some wacky stuff out there now?
BREUS: Sure.
BEHAR: How did that happen? I mean, is it because the drug companies are pushing this stuff or is insomnia on the rise?
BREUS: Well, I would actually suggest to you that the reason that there are so many people out there who are on medication is because insomnia because it`s so complicated, many people don`t actually ever see a sleep specialist because of it.
I end up seeing patients who`ve already been placed on multiple medications before because their general practitioner has said we`ll try this, we`ll try that.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
BREUS: I would have much rather when they identify the person who had insomnia, send them to me early and we can use behavioral techniques. We can consider short term medications instead of having people on one, two, three medications at a time you`re counteracting side effects and things like that.
BEHAR: Yes.
BREUS: And in some of these cases, people don`t realize that this is a serious situation and these are serious medications. And when you have these medications, they`re nothing to fool around with. I`ve had patients who say that I`ve -- I have taken such-and-such medication and gone in and eaten a chocolate cake.
BEHAR: Yes.
BREUS: Right? Well, when you really start talking to them it turns out that they have two glasses of wine with dinner and then they took their medication and they wonder why and then and by the way, they took it before they brushed their teeth and washed their face.
So then, they`re doing some type of behavior there, they`ve got alcohol in their system, they`ve got a sedative in their system and they wonder why, they said, oh, you know, I`m kind of hungry, I think I`ll get a snack before bed, they wander into the kitchen and boom there goes the chocolate cake.
So people --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes. I have a friend who actually had sex with her husband and got up in the middle of the night after they had sex, went into the refrigerator ate an entire chunk of cheese and bottle of tequila and did not remember anything in the morning particularly the sex.
BREUS: Wow, that`s impressive. I can`t say that I`ve seen a case like that before.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll continue this discussion after a quick break. We have more on this topic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: And we`re back talking about the Michael Jackson death trial, but actually about insomnia and Michael Jackson`s severe case of insomnia, trying to turn his brain off, using Propofol to sort of almost induce a coma.
BREUS: Yes.
BEHAR: You know. But the average person doesn`t have that kind of a problem but most people just have trouble falling asleep lately. So what is your biggest concern about these people out there.
BREUS: Well, one of the things I want people to understand is this was clearly a tragic case. It was an extreme case. People have to realize they haven`t failed at sleep. A lot of people come to me and they say I just can`t sleep anymore. I used to sleep great. Why can`t I sleep anymore? What am I doing wrong. What`s so wrong with me?
You know, people`s sleeper isn`t broken, if you will. People need to understand that sleep is a natural process. Sleep will come with time as long as you create a great environment and the surroundings to allow it --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Which is like a darkroom, a cool temperature in the room --
BREUS: Exactly.
BEHAR: And if you can`t fall asleep, like you`re active in the middle of the night, should you get up or should you put the TV on, should you read a book?
BREUS: Well, there are a lot of things that people can do. If you wake up in the middle of the night and you feel like you can`t fall back to sleep, here`s a quick trick that I use for people. I`ve asked them to count backwards from 300 by threes.
BEHAR: 300 by --
BREUS: -- by threes. Now think about it. It`s mathematical --
BEHAR: That`s a lot of concentration, isn`t it?
BREUS: Exactly. You can`t think of anything else. Remember what Mark was saying, I can`t turn my brain off?
BEHAR: Yes.
BREUS: That`s how you turn off your brain and it`s so doggone boring, you`re out like a light.
BEHAR: Mark, you ever do that, turn off your brain by counting backwards from 300?
GERAGOS: I can barely count forwards to 300. To go backwards is a bigger problem.
BEHAR: Exactly. That is really a tough one.
You know, Jermaine Jackson was on the show when he was telling me that Michael had trouble turning off the performing thing. You know, he was so high after a show that he really couldn`t come down.
Now I`m a performer, I do stand-up comedy. A lot of times after the show, I like to have a glass of wine and sometimes in the middle of the set, I`m thinking, I want that glass of wine. I don`t put myself into a coma over it.
BREUS: No, absolutely not.
BEHAR: What`s the difference between someone like Michael and the typical type of performer?
BREUS: Well, the thing that people have to remember is that your body will naturally calm down on its own. People can use all kinds of different techniques, from meditation and relaxation to exercise.
I mean I`ve worked with some of the most famous performers, politician, athletes, people who are on stage in front of thousands and thousands of people.
BEHAR: Yes. Right.
BREUS: And what we know is that naturally your body will relax. And so people have to give themselves the chance to fall asleep.
BEHAR: They will. We all will relax eventually.
BREUS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: In fact, I feel like taking a nap right now.
BREUS: Is it my voice. Is it so melodious for you?
BEHAR: Now Mark, one more question. Conrad Murray is on trial, but how culpable was Michael Jackson himself? The guy was a drug addict. Wasn`t this inevitable that something was going to happen to him?
GERAGOS: You know Joy, that`s precisely why I think the prosecution should really -- if they want to secure a conviction should stop and just rest this case because at a certain point, I think that the defense chose jurors that they thought were going to have this idea of individual or personal responsibility.
We`ve gotten to the point now where the prosecution is painting a picture of Michael where people might start to say what you just said and that`s the recipe for an acquittal.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you guys very much.
We`ll be right back. Take a nap.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up, now that Amanda Knox is free, could a million dollar payday for her story be in the works?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Amanda Knox has been freed from her Italian prison and Donald Trump thinks she could be in for some big money. The Donald is saying he`s been supporting her family all along and Amanda could have a big future. I know one thing she won`t be a spokeswoman for the olive garden.
With me now to talk about this and other pop culture stories in the news, are singer Bebe Buell whose new album Hard Love is in stores now, Joe Levy, editor in chief Maxim Magazine and Niecy Nash, host of "Let`s Talk about Love" on yahoo screen. Welcome guys.
So, Niecy, is Trump somehow trying to take credit for Knox`s release here?
NIECY NASH, HOST, LET`S TALK ABOUT LOVE: I don`t know if he`s trying to take credit but here`s the thing. Some people are saying that that mean he`s trying get her ready to go on the apprentice. I don`t think so, at least I hope not because in the court of public opinion, there still might be a question mark. And the best way to redeem yourself is always what, "Dancing with the Stars," people.
BEHAR: So, she should go on that not "Celebrity Apprentice"?
NASH: I`m just saying if you are trying to make a comeback, yes. You go on "Dancing with the Stars," you master the pasta doble, and there you are you are in America`s hearts.
BEHAR: What do you think?
JOE LEVY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MAXIM MAGAZINEI don`t even know what pasta doble means. I know I can`t get it at olive garden. But, beyond that I`m complete - how dare you suggest Donald Trump is trying to take advantage of anything or anyone for his own personal gain. Why would you say that?
BEHAR: My bad.
LEVY: You know, he did actually offertory pay her legal bills.
BEHAR: That, I want to see is a check for a million dollar.
BEBE BUELL, SINGER: The family is in debt according to the news. They are a million bucks collects to Donald. Let`s see it, Donald, rite the checky.
BEHAR: Do you think he will do that?
LEVY: Do I think he will give money to someone?
BEHAR: For no reason?
LEVY: No. No.
BEHAR: What`s the quid pro-ho in that case?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: He will want her to go on the apprentice.
BUELL: But she needs time to heal. I think before we start making her a star, maybe she doesn`t want to be a star. Maybe she wants to get an education.
BEHAR: You know, not everybody thinks she`s innocent, just saying.
LEVY: This is a weird media moment we`re paying attention to this Amanda Knox thing. To make it serious one second, when Troy Davis was executed a few weeks ago there was not this kind of attention from morning TV. There were morning shows sending reporters just to Perugia, Italy to stand in a square room over the week and say they make chocolate here, they don`t just imprison Amanda Knox.
BUELL: It`s fascinating case, Joe.
BEHAR: Why is it fascinating that executing a possibly innocent guy?
BUELL: Well to me, the fact that they didn`t really have any evidence. There was no DNA evidence.
BEHAR: Well, there was tinted DNA evidence.
BUELL: Yes, but that was from second-hand handling and noodling and doodling. But I don`t really believe they had concrete hard core evidence.
BEHAR: Well you know, in terms of her future career, 80 percent of people called do not, would not read a book by Casey Anthony. Do you think people will be that interested in this girl?
LEVY: I think that`s a strange comparison. They`re accused of different things. They both have been let go so perhaps they`re not guilty of those things, but the Amanda Knox case is one that people are more interested in and she`s done time in jail. She seems to have suffered. She`s more sympathetic is my point.
BEHAR: They`re both pretty girls. Let`s not forget that`s the real thing. Let me change the subject.
Tiger Woods has signed a deal to be one of the faces of Rolex, his first new endorsement since his sex scandal two years ago. I hope the watch comes with a baton alert.
(LAUGHTER)
BUELL: Is this the PMI edition of Rolex?
BEHAR: One of the main goals of the last ten years, let`s face facts here. Now, he lost five endorsements in the past as a result of this. How come Rolex is giving him this?
NASH: I don`t know. That just goes to show you what goes on in our society, especially with sports figures. Sometimes you can get a second chance. I`m still a little leery. You know I`m still trying to get the five hours of my life back I spent on my child`s report on Tiger Woods. So, I`m not rushing out to buy Rolex just yet.
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: You know Rolex wants to prove they`re impervious, you know. There is time next used to say takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Rolex wants to say you can be revealed to be the most heinous cheater in the world and still be durable, keeps good time.
BEHAR: Maybe you should do a you know
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s really durability.
LEVY: Well, I read the fine print. And it`s not 100 percent.
BUELL: He needs that watch Joy. He needs that watch to keep all those appointments.
BEHAR: Bu you know, here`s the thing with the guy. He doesn`t play golf the way he used to.
LEVY: He`s dropped out of the top 50 in the PGA and for the first time since 1996 -
NASH: He has excluded.
LEVY: Well theoretically, the sex fueled the good golfing.
BEHAR: The sex fueled the good golfing?
LEVY: Yes.
NASH: Yes, correct.
BEHAR: Then when he was found out that everybody jumped on him, then his golf game went also a little off.
LEVY: I think the jumping happened before he was found out.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, next. Anybody else have anything to say before we move on?
BUELL: Well you know, I think it`s OK to forgive. I mean it`s his problem, the whole thing with the cheating. It`s really not up to us to decide who forgives -
BEHAR: How wrong you are Bebe.
BUELL: I don`t know.
BEHAR: You`re too good. We`re in television. Our job is to judge.
(LAUGHTER)
Next up, on last night`s "Dancing with the Stars," the judges in the audience seemed shocked to see who was voted off. Let`s watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The couple with the lowest overall combined total and therefore leaving right now is Christine and Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come down here, Christine and Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. The ballroom is a bit upset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I mean I`ll tell you the truth. That was shocking, because she`s a very good dancer, that girl.
NASH: Here`s the thing. Having been on "Dancing with the Stars," it`s not just about the dancing. You have to have a great personality, uh- huh. You got to have -
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What was that about?
NASH: I`m just saying you have to have a compelling story.
BEHAR: She has neither is that what you`re trying to say?
NASH: You have to have a great personality, a compelling story. You have to have a reason that America`s getting behind you other than the dancing.
BEHAR: I see. Well, could it be karma? She was a little bitchy in "The Hills Show" I understand.
NASH: OK. In her whole platform with "Dancing with the Stars" is I want to prove that I`m not a bitch. Well obviously, it didn`t happen and she had to go home.
LEVY: This is injustice. This is an injustice, they have voted off the best looking lady on "Dancing with the Stars". This is not right.
BEHAR: That happens a lot.
BUELL: She is pretty.
LEVY: I need something if I have to watch the show, I need a reason. If I`m going to be forced to watch the show, I mean -
NASH: The dancers, the pro dancers are gorgeous.
LEVY: Well, Yes. But I need somebody to root for.
BEHAR: Nancy and Chaz are bringing the ratings. So, I mean they`re the ones - I`m voting for Chaz.
NASH: I`m voting for Carson Kressley.
BEHAR: Carson Kressley cannot dance, give me a break.
NASH: I know but I love the drama.
BEHAR: I mean I like Carson. I like Chaz but neither one of them can dances.
NASH: But I love the drama.
BUELL: Contrary, Chaz has some crazy rhythm. Haven`t you seen it?
LEVY: It must be crazy.
BEHAR: It`s really crazy.
(LAUGHTER)
BUELL: But you know, and a lot of people were saying that they thought maybe they only kept Chaz on the show because Cher tweeted that she would come.
BEHAR: Next time.
NASH: But you know I don`t know whether or not that`s true. I don`t believe that. But if I had a famous momma who looked good in lace, I would be like, bring it to the bam room, sister.
BEHAR: I`m sorry. Chaz has got naked pictures of Bruno, in my opinion. Something else is going on there.
LEVY: You know what, everybody has does pictures.
BEHAR: That`s true.
LEVY: There really is -
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s true.
OK, moving on. Actress Sean Young made a bizarre appearance on letterman last night practically begging for a job. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN YOUNG, ACTRESS: I`ve been having trouble because I don`t get enough parts. I`m very shy, David. I have a phone phobia and I don`t really reach out. I want to say it`s time for people to reach out to me. I would like to be making films and a series would be great, a sitcom would be great. I need the folks to know I have a sense of humor and I`m easy going and you know I`m ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She`s ready. And the other thing is you know usually when people come on our show, I mean these talk shows, and they`re promoting something, right, especially on letterman, a show like that. She`s there and she`s not promoting anything. Why did he allow that, do you think? What`s going on? He feels sorry for her or what?
BUELL: It`s a tribute to her in a way, because it`s a platform for her to get it out there.
BEHAR: To beg for a job.
BUELL: Well I mean, I don`t think she was really begging. I think she was just sort of letting everybody know, hey, I`m alive. But, you know -
LEVY: I just want to say, I also don`t make enough movies, and I`m available.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: If that`s all it takes -
LEVY: I have a certain phone phobia, if I don`t know wants to pay me millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
BEHAR: Would you like to make a plea before we go, Niecy?
NASH: No. You just have to be a little more crazy. You have to add a little crazy to the pot otherwise -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You have to have a train wreck quality these days to be popular on television.
NASH: She needs a reality show.
LEVY: She has done reality shows.
BUELL: She did "The Celebrity Rehab".
BEHAR: OK, I got to go. You can watch Niecy Nash on Yahoo`s "Lets Talk about Love" and Bebe will be performing in New York at the Hero Ballroom, yes, on October 12th. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: From "Star Trek" to T.J. Hooker, to Boston legal, William Shatner has been a fixture on American TV. His new book is "Shatner Rules," your guide to understanding the Shatner Rules and the world at large.
WILLIAM SHATNER, AUTHOR, SHATNER RULES: It`s pretty good.
BEHAR: That`s very good. How are you William?
SHATNER: I`m so good.
BEHAR: Shall I call you Bill?
SHATNER: Yes.
BEHAR: What do people call you?
SHATNER: Bill.
BEHAR: Bill. He`s just my bill.
SHATNER: Just my joy.
BEHAR: So, tell me about your book, "Shatner Rules."
SHATNER: Shatner Rules is a very funny read. Somebody interviewing me earlier today said they got a seat on the subway because they were reading the book and they were laughing out loud and people moved back and gave them her seat and she realized all she has to do now is go on the subway with the book and laugh out loud.
BEHAR: Sometimes, that`s a sign of mental illness, especially on the subway.
(LAUGHTER)
SHATNER: But as long as you can read, there`s a certain sanity involved there. So, the book is funny. The book is really funny. And it`s a good funny light read. At the same time, there`s a little stip going on there.
BEHAR: Who doesn`t like a little stip.
SHATNER: Everybody. At any age.
BEHAR: Exactly. How old are you now? I know you tell your age?
SHATNER: What do you mean tell my age? It`s being broadcast. I think there`s a mistake in the Montreal registry`s office about 20 years. How can I be 80 years old?
BEHAR: I know now. You`re not William at all.
SHATNER: Well, thanks.
BEHAR: You really don`t.
SHATNER: And you don`t look -
BEHAR: Whatever I am.
SHATNER: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But no. I don`t tell mine. I can`t even say it; it`s so high now the number that it gives me vertigo to say the number.
SHATNER: 80 make me puke.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But you look very good. I must tell you.
SHATNER: Good for what?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know. Good for 80. Did you ever think when you were 40 -?
SHATNER: Yes.
BEHAR: I`m never going to be 80.
SHATNER: I thought at 40, I went to bed - it`s in the book. At 40, I went to bed for three days. I thought my life is over. I`m 40, what have I done.
BEHAR: This is really?
SHATNER: Yes.
BEHAR: You did?
SHATNER: Honestly. I turned 80 some months ago, and I was in bed and I thought, what do I do? At 40, I went to bed for three days, now, I`m 80. Is like, 40, you say, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life. At 80, there`s no rest of your life.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No. That`s not true. You have another 20 years at least.
SHATNER: Have I got 20? How do you know that?
BEHAR: Because I can tell, you`re a healthy looking guy. You are alive and you actualized and you will live 20 more years. I guarantee you that.
SHATNER: That`s my guarantee. So, I got another 20 years, lots of books to tell you about I will write. I got an album.
BEHAR: You talk about in the book you got roasted. I want to watch a clip of you at the Charlie Sheen roast.
SHATNER: OK. Charlie Sheen got roasted for that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I personally asked William Shatner be here only because I need some clean urine. I had to ring it out of the diaper but it did the job.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You look great. Your skin is so tight. I can`t tell if you had a face lift or vaginal rejuvenation.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. They`re out there, these people. They`re nasty.
SHATNER: They`re evil, nasty people.
BEHAR: Why did you do it? Why did you seat there?
SHATNER: Why did you play that clip about me taking on Charlie Sheen? You`re mean, mean people. You`re in show business. You know what it`s like. You slant this. The Charlie Sheen roast was an intervention.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: On him.
SHATNER: On him. Why not have interventions with humor? Why wouldn`t you want to do humor.
BEHAR: That is a good intervention.
SHATNER: And instead of shaming them, you poke fun at them like at a roast. That was like I had a line - why can`t you be nice to women? Would it hurt you? Would it kill you, being nice to women to open a door for a girl before you lock her in the closet?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s good.
SHATNER: Yes, yes, it was one of the lines. So, it`s an intervention.
BEHAR: Yes. What was he like behind the scenes? Was there - ?
SHATNER: Drunk! No, no.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s the old story.
SHATNER: He was terrific and sane and wonderful.
BEHAR: You feel like he`s going to be fine now?
SHATNER: My gosh, yes. You know there`s a book in what must have happened between him and the producer and -
BEHAR: Chuck Lorre.
SHATNER: Where they went and what they did and how it all came down and why. I mean it`s very complicated psychologically, something good to examine, but not here. Here, we`re examining "Shatner Rules" and here we`re examining the album which is "Seeking Major Tom."
BEHAR: "Seeking Major Tom." So, wait a minute, before we get on to that, I must ask you something you wrote in the book you made rush Limbaugh cry and Jon Voight cry. How did you do that? Why are they crying?
SHATNER: Because I touched their soul.
BEHAR: How? Are you sure it was just their soul that you touched?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What did you do? How did you get them there?
SHATNER: Joy, there is a way that you and I could arrive at, maybe even with limited time for your interview show, that we could trade they`re talking to you, that we could trade intimacies that would touch us and make us weep because it resonates. My show, "Raw Nerve" and even "Aftermath," two talk shows I had, gives me the time, because we film it, to reach in slowly and find the place of your soul, and that -
BEHAR: So what did you find? Come on.
SHATNER: Talked about rush Limbaugh and his childhood.
BEHAR: Oh, the poor little fatty.
(LAUGHTER)
SHATNER: You see how tabloid that is? As against being earnestly and honestly involved.
BEHAR: Can`t you see? He was crying for himself. But he didn`t cry for anybody else, only himself.
SHATNER: Jon Voight, we wept over the beauty of patriotism.
BEHAR: That`s beautiful. But you know his daughter has issues with him, Jon Voight.
SHATNER: I have issues with you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know. But fortunately, I`m not related to you.
SHATNER: Or unfortunately, because I could have taken care of it.
BEHAR: She has issues with him. I would be interested to see what that`s about.
SHATNER: Well right, I didn`t want go there.
BEHAR: But you wept over patriotism.
SHATNER: Yes. Because I didn`t want go to the tabloid thing over his daughter and that`s the difference.
BEHAR: So, the two of you were crying over the mother land?
SHATNER: No, we were crying over other areas. And you then speak of his weeping which was so good because I didn`t go to where he was being protective, I don`t want to talk about my daughter.
BEHAR: I see. And rush Limbaugh cried about the little boy that was bullied as a child so now he`s a bully as he`s an adult. That`s interesting. We`ll have more with William Shatner in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: What the hell is that? OK, that`s William Shatner, "Seeking Major Tom" and he`s back with me now.
SHATNER: "Seeking Major Tom." Brilliant, marvelous album. Not necessarily because of me but there`s 20 of greatest musicians alive today are working with me on this album.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
SHATNER: Brad Paisley, Sheryl Crow, Lyle Lovett. Peter Frampton. I mean just the list goes on and on. That clip was me trying, and I don`t know how they get it out there. But Zach Wild of Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath did "Iron Man." In my concept of this album, "Major Tom," which was the David Bowie song where the sense - and he disappears. Where`s major Tom?
BEHAR: Right.
SHATNER: I speculate what happened to Major Tom with all these songs. Goes to heaven and goes to hell in the last part of the concept album, rock Oprah, if you will. He goes to hell in Iron Man. Zach Wild did the vocals which I laid down that track, didn`t know what I was doing. Went to Zach Wild when he laid down his track, realized, my God, what I had done there was nothing. I had to come up with the energy and the musicality that he showed. And the song is fun.
BEHAR: OK. Let me change the subject. Because there`s breaking news today that your friend Leonard Nimoy, is not going to go to those Star Trek conventions anymore.
SHATNER: You`re kidding.
BEHAR: After how many years. He`s also 80 this year.
SHATNER: He`s also what?
BEHAR: 80 years old.
SHATNER: No, no, he`s older it much older.
BEHAR: Much older?
SHATNER: Much older.
BEHAR: How old?
SHATNER: I don`t know. I don`t do tabloid stuff. But he`s, we can`t be the same age. Have you seen us?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, he`s not going to go to those Star Trek conventions.
SHATNER: I will miss him.
BEHAR: OK, now. There`s another thing I was surprised to read in your book, that Spock and Captain Kirk have a gay romance online. Did you know that?
SHATNER: No.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHATNER: What line can I go to, you see?
BEHAR: Online. It`s like people write about online.
SHATNER: I am so embarrassed.
BEHAR: They`re a gay couple.
SHATNER: I am so embarrassed to be on this show. The tabloid headlines that you go for -
BEHAR: I do. And what about this fight that you had with George Ducoi (ph)?
(LAUGHTER)
SHATNER: What fight? I love him. He just misinterpreted my love.
BEHAR: What was it that happened between the two of you? I`d like to know that.
SHATNER: I don`t know. I kissed him gently on the lips and he took it to -
BEHAR: He took offense?
SHATNER: He took offense and then he sat on it, the fence. What?
BEHAR: Was there tongues involved?
SHATNER: No. The only tongues involved are the different language.
BEHAR: Well, anyway, Bill, it was very nice to have you here. You`re a very busy man.
SHATNER: I hope you enjoy the album "Seeking Major Tom."
BEHAR: Thank you.
SHATNER: I hope you enjoy this new book.
BEHAR: The new book is called "Shatner Rules" and the album is called -
SHATNER: "Seeking Major Tom."
BEHAR: "Seeking Major Tom."
Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
