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Joy Behar Page
Michael Jackson Death Trial; Interview with Lewis Black; Life Begins at 50
Aired October 07, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, jurors in the Conrad Murray trial this week heard disturbing audio recordings of a drugged Michael Jackson, grisly forensic evidence and even testimony from Conrad Murray`s girlfriends. ABC`s legal analyst, Dan Abrams breaks down the key moments.
Then Joy will speak to Anna Nicole Smith`s former doctor about prescription drug abuse in Hollywood. Do private doctors get sucked into the fame game instead of focusing on their patient`s health?
Plus can you have the best sex in your life after 50? Why some Baby Boomers are saying life really begins after middle age.
That and more starting now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: It was a busy week for the prosecution in the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. Jurors heard from ER doctors who tried to revive Michael Jackson as well as testimony from Conrad Murray`s girlfriends. But the most dramatic evidence was an audio recording of a seemingly drugged Michael Jackson. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I love them. I love them because I didn`t have a childhood. I had no childhood. I feel their pain. I feel their hurt. I can deal with it. "Heal the World", "We are the World", "Will You Be There", "The Lost Children"; these are songs I`ve written because I hurt, you know. I hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here with me now to recap the trial this week is Dan Abrams, ABC News legal analyst, and founder and CEO of Mediaite. Ok, Dan, what can the jurors be thinking after listening to this tape?
DAN ABRAMS, ABC NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it does cut both ways. I mean the prosecution is trying to introduce it to say six week before Michael Jackson dies, this is the way he`s talking and you`ve got a guy who`s claiming he is trying to wean him off Propofol?
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: What happened in that six-week period? On the other hand, the defense could certainly say look, he didn`t start this. Michael Jackson was already drugged and addicted to drugs --
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: -- for a long time before Conrad Murray came into the picture and here is the evidence of it. Remember, the defense wanted to introduce Michael Jackson announcing the concert to even show that he was out of it back then before Murray had joined the team.
BEHAR: But then does the phrase, "a nail in the coffin", ring a bell? I mean this is what this is about.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Because of the tape -- I don`t think --
BEHAR: No, because the last (INAUDIBLE) of Propofol is what killed the guy and not what happened previous --
ABRAMS: That`s right.
BEHAR: -- and Murray wasn`t there with him. He was outside the room talking to those girls.
ABRAMS: Right. So there`s two questions to evaluate when looking at whether he`s going to be found guilty.
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: Number one is, was he grossly negligent? Was he reckless in his conduct? I think it is going to be very hard for him to defend against that one.
BEHAR: Is there any way out?
ABRAMS: On that one, no. But on the issue of cause of death; did he cause Michael Jackson`s death? The defense is going to claim that maybe Michael Jackson ingested Propofol himself.
BEHAR: Right.
ABRAMS: But even if they can pose questions about whether Murray caused the death legally of Michael Jackson is the best hope that they have, but I think it is going to be very tough.
BEHAR: But I`ve heard from various experts that he couldn`t have ingested, that you can`t swallow Propofol.
ABRAMS: Right. Yes. I mean look, it is tough to swallow Propofol. My guess is the defense is going to offer up some sort of expertise to suggest that somehow it could have happened. The idea that he put the -- he is sitting there, he`s got an IV attached --
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: -- to him, he`s got a catheter on his penis.
BEHAR: Right.
ABRAMS: And for him to get up and literally inject himself at that point is almost impossible to believe.
BEHAR: Is the word "almost" key there though?
ABRAMS: Yes because look, I want to see the scientific evidence. I want to see the experts testify about exactly what you were just saying which is this issue of, is it possible. How could someone have done it? How could you go about like taking off the thing, and can you actually drink it, and like how does it work? Because look, I never heard of Propofol, it was in the context of this case. I am learning more about it.
BEHAR: So is that testimony coming up soon?
ABRAMS: Yes, yes, yes. I mean --
BEHAR: Well, that will be interesting to watch.
ABRAMS: I mean it`s going to be very interesting and really important in the context of the case. Because look, right now, things look terrible for Conrad Murray --
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: -- but we are in the prosecution`s case.
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: We have to see what the defense has to offer.
BEHAR: One of the most damning things this week though and my personal favorite, actually, was the fact that he has these three girlfriends that he is on the phone with while poor Michael is dead or dying in the next room. And he`s in there chatting them up --
ABRAMS: You know what`s so interesting?
BEHAR: -- and he`s married on top of it.
ABRAMS: Right.
BEHAR: I mean he doesn`t -- that does not look good, I`m sorry.
ABRAMS: Right. Well, no. But you know what`s interesting is the judge ruled that the prosecution could not introduce evidence about his relationships with these various women because they were concerned of just that, that it was going to be seen as what the heck is this guy doing.
BEHAR: Wait a minute. It was admissible to tell them that he was on the phone with them. Right?
ABRAMS: Correct. Correct. On the phone --
BEHAR: Ok. That`s bad.
ABRAMS: Look there`s no question it is bad.
I mean what is he doing on the phone?
BEHAR: Who are the three women, the Supreme Court? I mean they were three women he was going out with.
ABRAMS: Exactly, right. No, but notice they were very careful about like what they`re, you know -- they didn`t say she`s an exotic dancer and she`s -- they were very vague.
BEHAR: An actress.
ABRAMS: Yes, they were very vague. Well, no, that one I think actually is.
BEHAR: The one who is using her instrument.
ABRAMS: Yes, yes. Her instrument -- it was one of the greatest lines in the trial. Her instrument --
BEHAR: Her instrument.
ABRAMS: Being herself.
BEHAR: So all the women testified that Murray either texted or spoke to them.
ABRAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok. And could the jurors conclude that his personal life distracted him from taking care of Jackson?
ABRAMS: Absolutely. And this is -- and again -- this is why I separated it out between the negligence and reckless conduct, and the cause of death --
BEHAR: Yes. Right.
ABRAMS: -- right, because this definitely goes to recklessness, gross negligence in the context of Michael Jackson. And you know what, there`s also a theme coming up throughout the week in the testimony.
BEHAR: What is that?
ABRAMS: And that is dollars. You keep hearing testimony about how he`s fighting on his contract to make sure he gets paid his $150,000.
BEHAR: Money, money, money.
ABRAMS: And for a doctor, and I think when jurors hear the idea that a doctor is focused so much on making sure he gets his $150,000 a month and then his patient ends up dying that I think that`s going to be a bigger problem than most people are suggesting.
BEHAR: Right. Not exactly Marcus Welby, MD.
ABRAM: No. Yes.
BEHAR: One of the girlfriends even testified that Murray called her while in the ambulance. Let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLE ALVAREZ, CONRAD MURRAY`S FORMER GIRLFRIEND: I remember him telling me that he was on the way to the hospital in the ambulance with Mr. Jackson and for me not to be alarmed because -- that he didn`t want me to be worried because he knew I would learn this through the news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So what?
ABRAMS: Look, I mean, she was another one -- these girlfriends by the way in terms of like the totality of evidence aren`t that important. I mean just the fact that he was talking to some, it does show distracted, et cetera.
BEHAR: Right.
ABRAMS: But I think there`s no question that the prosecutors want these jurors to think this guy is, you know, the Gene Simmons of doctors.
BEHAR: Right. That he`s out there, you know, like just going out and all these women and that`s not helpful either. But, you know, the court is trying to prevent that from happening. But these jurors have common sense. They`re going to be looking at all these women coming on the stand, he`s texting me here, I am talking to him then. They`re going to be like what is this guy doing?
BEHAR: Yes. You know, at one point the prosecution lined up all the bottles of medication in the house. Doesn`t this show Jackson that was an addict or that Murray was negligent? Which side is stronger there?
ABRAMS: Well, the fact that at one point he is ordering 255 bottles of Propofol, all right. You know, the notion that he is weaning him off of Propofol --
BEHAR: My God.
ABRAMS: -- by ordering --
BEHAR: You could put out the whole state of New York with that.
ABRAMS: Right but by ordering hundreds of bottles of Propofol, it is a tough argument to make, but he`s going to say this is how addicted he was to it. And remember in opening statement, fascinating line, the defense saying he didn`t die because he gave him Propofol. He died when he stopped giving him Propofol, which is effectively their argument.
BEHAR: But if you could take that amount of Propofol, you could just sleep for the rest of your life and never wake up for like the next 25 years.
ABRAMS: And you know, that`s the question; that`s why we get back to the science of the Propofol --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I`m looking forward to that testimony.
ABRAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: And thank you very much for bringing us up to date here.
We`ll have more on the Conrad Murray trial when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The trial of Dr. Conrad Murray has raised a lot of questions about the relationship between some celebrities and their doctors.
Joining me now to talk about this and much more are Judge Larry Seidlin, former Florida State Court Judge who presided over the Anna Nicole Smith body custody case; and Dr. Sandeep Kapoor, Anna Nicole Smith`s former doctor who was acquitted on charges of illegally funneling prescription meds to the former "Playboy" model.
Ok let`s start with the judge. Judge Seidlin, do you see any parallels between Michael Jackson and the Anna Nicole Smith cases?
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, FORMER FLORIDA STATE COURT JUDGE: Yes, there`s a number of parallels. You have Michael Jackson, Anna Nicole, fame and fortune. And when you have fame and fortune, you have power. The idea of being a celebrity in and of itself is powerful.
And you had doctors here, our good friend, Dr. Kapoor was a doctor that was asked to help Anna Nicole with her pain and he prescribed certain drugs. Where this case deviates is that in Dr. Murray, he is a physician for Michael Jackson but he`s an employer-employee relationship. And that`s the problem.
He`s making so much money working for Michael Jackson, $150,000 a month, that`s over a million dollars a year. He has a vested interest to keep a relationship strong with Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEIDLIN: So he`s almost at the will of Michael Jackson. He serves at the pleasure of Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: That`s right.
Well Doctor, what pressures do you think Conrad Murray was under as Michael Jackson`s physician?
DR. SANDEEP KAPOOR, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S FORMER DOCTOR: Well, arguably he came into a situation that was already disastrous. I mean he -- you know, the history of Michael Jackson in pain or untreated pain, we don`t know really much about his medical history, so he comes into a situation that arguably is over his head.
He may have had issues that he`s not sure how to treat; what other physicians, what other medications he was taking, I don`t think he knew. So he comes into a situation that he`s taking this -- these bizarre medications for sleeping which is never used before and he further faces a situation. What does he do? Does he walk away from a difficult situation?
BEHAR: But that didn`t happen overnight.
KAPOOR: It didn`t happen overnight.
BEHAR: No.
KAPOOR: And that`s the point. I mean whatever Michael`s situation was didn`t happen overnight. And there were other physicians and there were other health care systems that failed him along the way.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
KAPOOR: And now you have a physician who walks in, and arguably, yes, $150,000 is -- is more than I make a year, you know, as a general practitioner, so per month, that`s even -- you know that`s crazy. It`s crazy money.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s crazy but it`s tempting.
KAPOOR: It is, when you -- and you`re put in a situation where but -- where you have a lot of debt and he was pressed in a situation. But I have no idea why he didn`t sort of bring in other people.
BEHAR: You were Anna Nicole`s physician for three years, right? Did she ask you for prescriptions? Did you just give her prescription? How did that work?
KAPOOR: Well, she -- she was a patient already of the practice. So she comes into the practice and she -- and I bought the practice and she was part of it.
BEHAR: I see.
KAPOOR: So she only was on medications and I just continued basically what the physicians before has been prescribing.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But you know, the other day I went to the doctor and I ask -- I had some pain, I need -- I got some cortisone in my knee, right, and so I needed a Vicodin and he gave me many more than I needed. I mean I don`t use it but should a doctor say, well, I`m only are going to give you one a day?
KAPOOR: Well I think that it`s again, trusting your patient to understand that you know, generally, people just go into the ER even and just get like medication and they get more than they need usually.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
KAPOOR: And just keep it in their cupboard. But if you`re a patient who has issues with addiction --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right. Then you don`t keep it in the cupboard. Then you use it.
(CROSSTALK)
KAPOOR: Then it`s down the hatch.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
KAPOOR: I mean, so you have to really -- every patient is different and every patient is going to handle things differently. You may have a bad reaction to it and you don`t give it to them. The important thing is you went in --
BEHAR: Yes.
KAPOOR: -- the point is you went into the doctor in the beginning.
BEHAR: That`s right. Ok, let`s talk about Dr. Murray for a second again.
Now, he bragged to a girlfriend about being Michael Jackson`s doctor. We saw that and even brought her to meet the star.
Now Judge, is that kosher for a -- for a doctor to bring his girlfriend to meet a celebrity and get it all mixed up like that. Is that ok?
SEIDLIN: No, that`s not a kosher hot dog at all. He -- he -- he stepped over the line. He had to maintain a doctor-patient relationship and he didn`t. He became an employee of Michael Jackson, serving at his pleasure, bringing his strippers to meet Michael Jackson. He started to have a vested interest in Michael Jackson liking him and approving of him. And he just gave out drugs to Michael Jackson. He gave an -- he ordered enough drugs for Michael Jackson to light up one of your Christmas trees in Rockefeller Center.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEIDLIN: How much -- four gallons of Propofol. It was an insane amount of drugs. And he was going to bring that to London for Michael Jackson`s 50 concerts which he wasn`t going to be able to perform.
BEHAR: Now that`s (INAUDIBLE) -- but you were photographed with Anna Nicole at a gay pride parade I understand. Now is that professional, is that ok?
KAPOOR: Well, that particular day again was a charity event, it was one day. And I don`t think that was ok because I actually wrote it in my diary that night which was part of the trial last year as my own sort of confession. But I believed it was inappropriate.
BEHAR: Yes.
KAPOOR: And you know, we`re human and we make mistakes. That was the only day out of the three years I treated her that I -- that I actually did socialize with her. So I don`t think it`s ok in certain circumstances to - - to socialize with celebrities.
BEHAR: I mean, to me it`s like -- if you`re friends with your doctor, I don`t really see what`s wrong with that on the face of it. I have doctors and I`d love to be friends with my doctors. You know but -- I`m on television. Does that make it different?
KAPOOR: I think it does. And unfortunately that`s the case. You kind of have this barrier that`s artificial. And, you know, it can be always construed the wrong way it`s always about what kind of venue where you at and you know it --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It doesn`t look good.
KAPOOR: It doesn`t look good generally. But again, it depends on the type -- Anna Nicole Smith unfortunately was known for being kind of a mess. And that`s unfortunately what her persona was and so it`s assumed that everything is kind of -- everyone else around her is --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I think that`s a similar perception of Michael Jackson, I think, when he was alive, that he was a kind of mess, too, right?
KAPOOR: Well, I mean, I think there are definitely issues there. And then, he isolated himself arguably.
BEHAR: Yes.
KAPOOR: But he wasn`t out hanging out at the clubs or doing different things.
BEHAR: No, no.
KAPOOR: But he had a lot of issues that we don`t know a lot about either.
BEHAR: Judge, do you think Conrad Murray was negligent, now that you`ve studied the case a little bit?
SEIDLIN: Yes. What happens here is the prosecutor has to prove gross negligence. Negligence would be a civil lawsuit which I think we`ll see soon. But the -- but was Dr. Murray grossly negligent? I believe so.
Each act that the state attorney, the prosecutor is showing shows gross negligence. He should have had a medical team around him, Dr. Murray. He`s making $150,000 a month. He could have had nurses there. He should have had proper medical --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Why do you think he didn`t -- why do you think he didn`t have nurses there?
SEIDLIN: I believe that reflects on the fact of his actions, that if he had professionals around him, they would have -- it would have raised so many red flags. He didn`t have the proper equipment around him.
BEHAR: Right.
SEIDLIN: I think if the professionals were there, Joy, it would have shown he dropped the ball, that he was grossly negligent. That`s why he started to hide some of the equipment that was around. That`s why he didn`t let the emergency team know that he had given Michael Jackson this Propofol. When he went to the hospital, he doesn`t state it to the doctors there.
BEHAR: Ok. We`re going to take a break. We`ll have some more after that. Hold on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. We`re talking about celebrities and their doctors.
Doctor, this guy, Murray, he was on the phone with his girlfriends, you know, while Michael was in the next room on Propofol. Don`t you think -- does that sound -- that sounds really bad to me. Here`s the guy inside on a medication that really should only be administered in a hospital with a staff around it. The guy is in the room alone on the drug and he`s in the next room talking to his girlfriends. That looks bad.
KAPOOR: In medical terms, the standard of care is what we look at. The thing is there really is no standard of care for administering Propofol in this manner. So whether he was on the phone or in the bathroom, really there was no equipment that would have registered anything that he knew anything was wrong until it was too late.
So the key is that, you know, whether he -- whether he`s on the phone or not, he wouldn`t be able know that something was wrong with him until he wasn`t breathing.
BEHAR: Why would he leave him alone in there when he knew that something could go wrong? He knew it.
Judge, what do you think should happen to Dr. Murray? What`s your opinion?
SEIDLIN: He`s going to be wearing a striped suit, I believe. The defense hasn`t presented their case yet. But the damages that are being done to his character, to the way he practices medicine. He strongly deviated from the standard of care that should have been applied to Michael Jackson; there`s just gross negligence in so many scenarios, in so many fact patterns.
If you and I were in a restaurant -- in a Chinese restaurant, not a kosher one -- we`d have to just pick one column, one column that proves that it`s gross negligence.
Did I make you think of food as I`m talking?
BEHAR: You`re funny.
Do you think that Murray should go to jail?
KAPOOR: I think that Dr. Murray, I mean arguably, if he would have walked in -- if I would have walked into that situation, I would have screamed bloody murder and said "My goodness, we have to get this patient to a hospital." And he should have really tried to do that. And I think he probably wanted to do something to try to help him but he was way over his head. And I think that`s the problem.
And you know, I think that looking at those last 24 hours or 12 hours even, it doesn`t look good, based on what I`m seeing.
BEHAR: Does it make either of you nervous -- not nervous about yourselves -- but maybe celebrities can`t go to the doctors anymore?
KAPOOR: It seems like that. I mean celebrities -- sometimes I feel like in Los Angeles, they get worse care because they`re going to specialists that someone knows somebody and they kind of get cut out of like just general medicine.
BEHAR: You always have -- Judge, you always have the feeling like if you`re a celebrity you`re going to get better care. But we`ve seen now that that`s not necessarily true.
SEIDLIN: No. If you`re a celebrity, if you`re famous, you`re going to get worse care. That`s the problem, because unfortunately, the power of what we have causes people to defer to us, to sort of give us what we`re asking for. And that`s unfortunate.
You know, as a footnote, Joy, you got legal pundits saying that Dr. Murray should have been charged of murder one. Those lawyers should go above the cleaning store where they came from because that`s not going to be -- be -- there`s no malice here.
BEHAR: No. It was an accident.
SEIDLIN: He was just grossly negligent.
BEHAR: Yes. But he`s going to have to pay for that, I think.
SEIDLIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you guys very much.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK. They always say don`t sweat the small stuff. Lewis Black sweats everything. In fact, he just sweats. I don`t know if it`s anger, caffeine, menopause, whatever. joining me is the very funny Lewis Black.
OK. So what`s on your mind, Lewis?
LEWIS BLACK, COMEDIAN: What`s on my mind?
BEHAR: Yes, what`s bugging you.
BLACK: What`s bugging me is I can`t -- this is what I don`t understand. How come, you know, we can`t tax rich people, hmm?
BEHAR: They don`t want to be, that`s why.
BLACK: But some of them do.
BEHAR: Yes, that handful, the Warren Buffett, multimillionaires.
BLACK: You really think, really, to me, the hardest thing I found as a comic is trying to approach that, because when you`re saying and we`re broke and we have no money, but the last thing you want to do is tax rich people, it is like the punchline to a joke. And we`re not going to tax rich people.
BEHAR: People don`t understand. It doesn`t make any sense.
BLACK: You couldn`t have said that, I mean, 30 years ago if they said you couldn`t tax rich people, people, even Republicans would go, how silly. Now it is like don`t tax. They use that word because they`re job creators. And they say it like they`re saints. They`re saints.
BEHAR: They`re job creators.
BLACK: They give, they give the breath of life. And the poor people are not job creators. What do they say, I hear it over and over again, when was the last time a poor person ever gave anybody a job? It is hard to think of what job to give somebody else when you`re standing over deep fat fry, OK? You`re not really going, boy, I wish there was somebody I could create another job for that would be worse than this job.
BEHAR: But the corporations who aren`t paying as much taxes--
BLACK: They`re not paying anything.
BEHAR: I know. But they also don`t want to move towards giving jobs for some reason, and we still don`t know why. They`re insecure about the economy, they say.
BLACK: They`re insecure and there is that other thing they say, they are overregulated. They`re overregulated. But they never explain what that means. They always just say it. Boehner says it all the time. And Boehner, I need an investigation because I don`t think it is a bronzing thing, I think he`s stood near uranium too long.
BEHAR: That could be. Agent Orange maybe.
BLACK: I think he is radiated. Because -- and that may be why he`s weeping all the time.
BEHAR: What is that with the crying all the time?
BLACK: Because radiation has that effect. We don`t know. That`s the thing. If you don`t die, you just weep for your shrinking soul.
BEHAR: I think that rich people would pay if they had to. They would. If they said this is what we`re going to bring it back to where Bill Clinton`s level was, I think they would be happy to do it.
BLACK: If you were asking -- OK, so they said we`re going to bring it down, they go, you can`t tax people making $250,000 a year. The economy is so bad that you can`t tax the person making $250,000 a year.
BEHAR: That`s really too low. The 250 does not mean a person is rich, not in New York City.
BLACK: I know it doesn`t any more, certainly not here. But it will show you the level of where the economy is. Ten years ago, or five years ago, $250,000 would be seen as a chunk of change. Now it`s like where is that -- how is that putz going to get across the street?
BEHAR: But if you live in a small town in the middle of the country and you make 250,000, that`s a lot of money.
BLACK: It is a lot of money. And you can create jobs everywhere. You can bring people and they will join you and your seed shall go forth.
They`re going to tax 3 percent more. That`s what they want to tax. OK? And everybody is screaming about that. 3 percent is not a lot.
BEHAR: No.
BLACK: You know how I know that?
BEHAR: How do you know?
BLACK: Because it is only 1 percent more than 2 percent milk. Now, how good is that? People don`t understand economics. And there`s a really straight way to look at it. And if you don`t understand what I said, go to your fridge right now and get some 2 percent milk and taste it. OK? Because it doesn`t taste like milk. And if you add 1 percent more milk, it`s still not going to taste it. And that goes to prove these people aren`t being taxed heavily.
BEHAR: Now, what about these people who are marching on Wall Street? We used to march the Vietnam War, we went to Washington, we marched for women`s rights.
BLACK: I was gassed.
BEHAR: You were gassed, really?
BLACK: I did. I was, you know, an idiot, I walked around the corner and walked right into it.
BEHAR: Do you think it is going to get to that point with these people?
BLACK: It might if it gets -- if it grows out of that park. The interesting thing, you know, we -- they`ve been yelling for years, these kids don`t get out there, how come they didn`t protest the war, how come they aren`t protesting anything. Now they come and protest, and they`re going, I can`t believe they`re protesting. What a bunch of shmucks.
BEHAR: That`s true. And also the right-wing media, I notice, they were all over the Tea Party, covering every move they made, and glorifying them as the new, the great, the revolutionary, et cetera. This group, they think they are a bunch of kids, they`re acting out.
BLACK: They`re kooky.
BEHAR: They`re spoiled brats, they`re kooky. How come, because they`re not on the right? Is that what that`s about?
BLACK: Essentially we have gone -- we do this. I mean, why is this so difficult? We go, the pendulum goes. Now -- Obama went woo, we go to the left, which means really in reality --
BEHAR: Obama didn`t go to the left.
BLACK: I know that. But in reality, we go to the center.
BEHAR: Which they call the left.
BLACK: Which is now the left, you know, and soon to be actually the right wing. So then it goes back to the right, immediately, because it is healthcare. The government is coming in and they`re going to check your prostate at any second. So you have to go all the way back to the time in which we, you know, the Salem witch trials, where there`s no such thing as medicine and you don`t pay, and everybody -- you take like a chicken over to the doctor and he cures you, you know. So we end up with a right-wing kind of a thing, and now it is going to go back to the left. Which is what is starting there.
BEHAR: This CD that you have here was made -- this comes out of --
BLACK: 1990.
BEHAR: 1990. And you are now putting this out there. Don`t you have any new material?
BLACK: No, I`m done. I`m really done. As a matter of fact, a lot of people don`t -- I really am having trouble with getting older.
BEHAR: You are?
BLACK: And so I have decided -- yes.
BEHAR: Why, what`s bothering you, booby (ph), talk to me?
BLACK: I just don`t like it. I don`t like, you know--
BEHAR: Well, who does? Nobody does.
BLACK: Nobody does. And it`s like, you know, you go to your -- I went to like my 30th reunion, it was like that was the beginning of the end, it was like a mortality festival. It was wow, what happened to you? You`re sitting there trying to carve a face out of what was once there, it`s like kind of lumpy. It`s like play dough, you just have to kind of rip back the years. Oh, there she is.
So I -- I forgot the question. So on going backwards, that`s the whole thing. I hit 63, and now I`m going to go backwards. We`re going to go through, we`re going to just start giving out -- I am just going to do CDs from the past.
BEHAR: You know, Andy Rooney was on, and he did his last show on "60 Minutes" this past Sunday. And he`s 96 and he finally retired. When do you think is the cutoff to retire these days? He was 96, and he finally got off television.
BLACK: This is the cutoff for me. When I am in a club somewhere and whatever age, and I am playing at a comedy club, and I turn to whoever is near me and go, you know what I like most about this? Is they have got a really good restaurant here at the club and that this food is free. When I`m saying that--
BEHAR: It is over.
BLACK: -- somebody has to come take me. You know, when I go I can`t wait to get back tomorrow for another cup of this soup, then I need to be taken off.
BEHAR: Would you like to die in the middle of a set like Dick Shawn, great comedian, Google him, Dick Shawn, he was a wonderful comedian. He died, dropped dead right in the middle of his act.
BLACK: No.
BEHAR: You wouldn`t like that? Why not? I would. That would be great.
BLACK: Would you really?
BEHAR: Yes. Ma, I`m not Jewish. Boom. And I just die. I would love that.
BLACK: No. You`d be that -- because you wouldn`t die immediately, and you would hear them going, is she dead? Is she dead? I wonder if she`s dead? Do we get our money back?
BEHAR: I won`t hear it, I`ll be dead.
BLACK: I always love it when somebody steps in front of the spotlight, and there is that moment where it goes to black, I think this is it. And then of course -- I think that`s the aneurysm.
BEHAR: Are you going to be a standup comedian for the rest of your life? Is that your fate?
BLACK: No, I think I`m going to go on to the opera. I think that that`s really my calling. Yes.
BEHAR: How about acting or --
BLACK: I mean, I would love to, you know, I would -- I mean, I really in the end would like to have a TV show, but I don`t think it is going to happen.
BEHAR: They don`t want you?
BLACK: They don`t want -- they want me to be Lewis Black, run around, bellow like a lunatic--
BEHAR: For the rest of your--
BLACK: For the rest of my born days. Until I have that -- until -- I -- how would I like to die? You know, they bring a really nice meal and my head goes into the bowl of soup.
BEHAR: OK. I wish that for you then. Thanks, Lewis! His new CD is called "The Prophet." And we`ll be right back. I only wish the best for you!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: They used to say that life begins at 40, but according to my next guest, it begins at 50, along with menopause and arthritis. Rita Wilson and Arianna Huffington have created a new Web site designed specifically for baby boomers called Huffpost50.
Joining me now, actress, producer and editor at large of Huffpost50, Rita Wilson, and Arianna Huffington, president and editor in chief of the "Huffington Post." Welcome, ladies.
So, I read Bill Maher`s post today on your site about life at 50. He`s in his 50s now, mid-50s somewhere. This is what he write, part of it. "This is the first time in your life that you can see over the crest of the mountain and down into the valley below, you know death."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. It`s a really up piece Bill has come up with. Is it because he`s over 50 or is it because he`s a depressive? What does this mean?
RITA WILSON, ACTRESS: Well, I think when you`re younger, you have an idea the world is yours and time is never going to end.
BEHAR: Right.
WILSON: And then you hit a certain point and you think, OK, wow, let me look at that calendar for a little bit. And you begin to see that it`s limited, it`s not just I mean really life is limited anyways. I mean you can drop dead crossing the street. But I think people start reassessing what they`re going to do in that next third of their life. But he writes about it very humorously.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, you have to laugh. As the grim reaper is breathing down your neck, you might as well laugh.
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, PRESIDENT, EDITOR IN CHIEF, HUFFINGTON POST: It`s like he does appreciate life more. That even though his body doesn`t exactly operate the same way, he said you get a cut and it didn`t heal as fast, et cetera. But you have a sense of the end of life I mean that is the whole point of knowing that death will come. It`s not a morbid thing. You know Greeks --
BEHAR: Is that what put you together?
HUFFINGTON: That was a big deal because, you know, first of all, Socrates, you know a Greek compatriot. He said practice death daily.
BEHAR: Who said that?
HUFFINGTON: Socrates.
BEHAR: Socrates. Did you ever date him, Arianna?
(LAUGHTER)
HUFFINGTON: Unfortunately he was into young boys.
BEHAR: That`s true. So you were out.
HUFFINGTON: I was definitely out.
BEHAR: So, you should think about death daily.
HUFFINGTON: Yes. The idea of that is that then you look at everything in perspective. You don`t worry about the little things. God, one day we are all going to be dead. Do we really need to worry about the things we worry about every day? You know, all the things we worry about that don`t even happen. You know that famous saying there were many terrible things in my life but most of them never happened. So you know, over 50, you have a sense of perspective about it.
BEHAR: Nobody ever wants to die. I was watching Andy Rooney on Sunday and he`s like, well, I`m 98, whatever the hell he is. I don`t want to die. I don`t want to die. But, listen -- you know.
WILSON: Well, that`s the thing. I think it`s an assessment at a certain age, where you just say, all right, if I only have, in my head, "X" amount of years left how do I want to spend them? What do I want to do? And I think one of the -- some of the things we will hear about and already started hearing about, is that sometimes change or looking at your future or something you choose to do differently, to changing up your life, and sometimes change comes because it`s forced on you or necessity. And I still see a lot of people taking those sorts of things that happened to them and saying, OK, well it`s as bad as it can get. What am I going to do now?
BEHAR: A lot of people are losing their jobs. So for women, I mean this conversation is important for a lot of people, but particularly for women, I think, who are getting divorced at 40, like I did. I was broke at 40. I got fired. I was divorced. I had nothing when I was about 39 or 40. I was on unemployment insurance and I said I am going to do what I have to do now. So I changed my life.
WILSON: What did you do?
BEHAR: I got up on stage and did stand-up comedy.
WILSON: There you go.
BEHAR: I worked in Jersey for 50 bucks a night in front of three drunks. I mean, that`s how I did.
WILSON: You got out of your comfort zone.
BEHAR: I was thrust out of it.
WILSON: Exactly. And sometimes that could be a positive thing.
(CROSSTALK)
HUFFINGTON: There should be a platform where people can come together and discover like a tribe of people at a similar age for different reasons looking at their lives again and reinventing themselves.
BEHAR: But you guys have changed something in mid-life right, what did you change?
WILSON: At 49 years old, I did "Chicago." I did a musical, and it was something I always wanted to do. And it actually terrified me. And I uttered the words one day to my agents and the next day, I had an offer. It was almost --
BEHAR: That`s scary.
WILSON: I can`t do this.
BEHAR: Be careful what you wish for.
WILSON: Be careful what you wish for. I went to see the show, and I turned to Tom, my husband in the middle of the show and said, I can`t do this. There is no way I can do this. He was like, are you insane? You have to do this. So actually, my daughter said the same thing, you have to do this. And it was definitely not my comfort zone.
BEHAR: What about you? What did you do?
HUFFINGTON: Before I say that, I saw Rita in Chicago, and frankly, that was what gave me the idea to ask her to help create this item with the editor at large because it was amazing to me, embodied what I wanted the site to be, the chutzpah to take on a big challenge late in life. My big challenge was launching the "Huffington Post." I was 54. And literally, even the people who loved me most were saying to me, don`t do that. That`s a huge risk.
You know, the Internet is for young people. It`s not for people over 50. What are you doing? Who needs that?
WILSON: And extraordinary in six years what you accomplished. You didn`t know what it was going to be.
BEHAR: It`s gotten bigger. Now you merged with AOL, right, and it`s a big conglomerate now. You`re like a big Muckity-Muck (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She wasn`t (ph) when she was 53.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: All right, we`ll continue this in just momento. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Sally O`Malley. I am proud to say I am 50 years old. Not one of those gals who`s afraid to hide her age, unlike some other gals. And I like to kick, stretch and kick! I`m 50! 50 years old.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Molly Shannon as the 50-year-old Sally O`Malley. Wish I could kick that high. I don`t think I can. I am back with my guests, Arianna Huffington and Rita Wilson, we`re talking about being more than 50 now.
What about sex after 50 and dating after 50? How do you and Tom Hanks keep it hot, Rita? Do you role play, like you will be in a little school girl outfit, and he will be like Private Ryan and you`ll meet in a garage (ph) somewhere? I mean what do you two do?
WILSON: Wait, I just want to tell you something, speaking of costumes. Just look at what he made me wear in "That Thing You Do." I just want to say -- do your research.
HUFFINGTON: I need a picture of that.
BEHAR: What about sex after 50?
WILSON: Arianna?
HUFFINGTON: We have a great article on the Post today about sex after 60. And the whole point is that nothing is ever over.
BEHAR: Right.
HUFFINGTON: And whether it`s your dreams or your sex life, the most important thing is to stop judging ourselves, because while we`re young, you know, we spend so much time -- we exhaust ourselves second-guessing everything, doubting ourselves. I watch my daughters. You know, they`re 20 and 22. And self-doubt is part -- is something endemic in our lives, especially as women, right? And when you get older, it is just wonderful to be freed from that.
BEHAR: That`s the pleasure about it. But then men who are in their 50s and 60s, they want to date 25-year-old women. Girls your daughters` age, how does that hit you?
HUFFINGTON: You know, if they want to date 25-years-old, they should date 25 years old.
BEHAR: Pickings are slim for women over 60 trying to find a guy.
HUFFINGTON: First of all, life is not about finding a guy.
BEHAR: I know that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Find a woman now, you can become a lesbian.
(LAUGHTER)
HUFFINGTON: That happens to a lot of women, it does.
BEHAR: What is that about?
WILSON: Because it is a hormonal change. I think it is a shift. I believe somewhere between the age of 48 and 54, a woman`s brain actually grows, and things happen in there, like a teenage adolescent brain. Why is everybody laughing so hard?
BEHAR: So, you don`t think that it is something you`re born this way and all that stuff, it might change?
WILSON: I think you`re born that way, but I think for women in particular, I think there`s a shift that happens.
(CROSSTALK)
HUFFINGTON: But women can create amazing things. That`s one of the things that happen. The children grow up, they have more free time. What do they do with that? And to go back to what you said earlier. A lot of women are losing their jobs. A lot of men are losing their jobs.
BEHAR: You know what I always say, no risk is a risk. When you`ve got to take some kind of a risk when you`re in your mid-life and you need to change something. Thank you very much, ladies. Very interesting and we will check out the Huffpost50. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
