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Joy Behar Page
Missing Baby Mystery; Dan Wheldon Dies in Crash; Interview with Billy Gardell
Aired October 17, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, shocking news in the disappearance of 11-month-old Lisa Irwin. Her mother now says she was drunk off boxed wine when the little girl went missing. We`ll analyze the impact this is having on the case.
Then Indy car driver Dan Wheldon died Sunday after a horrific 15-car crash in Las Vegas. Is this a sport that needs a safety overhaul?
Plus Billy Gardell, one-half of the hit show, "Mike and Molly" talks about making it as a heavy guy in Hollywood.
That and more starting now.
E.D. HILL, HLN GUEST HOST: Hi there, everyone. Thanks so much for joining me. I`m E.D. hill sitting in today for Joy.
Lisa Irwin, that little baby still missing and her mother, Deborah Bradley, changes her story, now admitting she was drinking the night her baby vanished. Listen to what Bradley said during an interview with NBC`s "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you drinking that night?
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF LISA IRWIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much?
BRADLEY: Enough to be drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were drunk.
A lot of people are going to say, Deborah, you were drunk that night, is there any chance you did anything that hurt your daughter, that you`re just not telling us?
BRADLEY: No. No. No. And if I thought there was a chance, I`d say it. No. No. I don`t think that alcohol changes a person enough to do something like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Well, here with us to discuss the latest in this case, CNN`s Jim Spellman who`s in Missouri; Tom Ruskin, private investigator and former NYPD detective investigator; and Linda Kenney-Baden, former member of the Casey Anthony defense team. All of them brilliant in their own areas, so we`re really lucky.
Jim, I want to start with you because you were just at this latest press conference. What happened there?
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN ALL-PLATFORM JOURNALIST: Well, they announced a new attorney representing the family, Joe Tacopina. He worked on the Joran Van Der Sloot case, came in from New York today to take over and really, I think, try to reset this case; to try to alter the public perception of Deborah and the family.
And what happened is very interesting around the issue of drinking. He brought up two possibilities around the issue of her being drunk. One, that if she was indeed that drunk, she may not have heard an intruder coming into the house. Secondly, if she was drunk, could she pull of this perfect disappearance where the baby is gone without a trace and there`s no clue.
So he`s definitely trying to come in, recreate a different sense of her, a more sympathetic sense of her; also raising the issue that police focusing on her so much has detracted them from doing more searches. He`d like to see more searches.
They have been doing searches today and yesterday. They`d like to see more of that going forward, E.D.
HILL: Yes. Well, you`ve had, I think, National Guard, FBI, police, CSI; you`ve got a lot of people out there. Sounds like Joe is trying to create a defense.
SPELLMAN: At times he certainly lapsed into sounding like that . Yes, we even saw dog teams today right here at their home where Baby Lisa disappeared. They say that family today gave consent again to research this home when we saw them out here with dogs, going not only here but the neighbor`s house and the home where they`ve been staying for the last few days.
What he was a lot less clear on is will they be able to interview the family again. Will Deborah and Jeremy, the parents, be interviewed by the police again? It`s been about a week since they`ve last spoken to police. And their two sons -- I believe they`re about 8 and 5, they haven`t spoken to the police in quite some time either. Very circumspect about whether they`ll be able to do that.
So on one hand, sort of criticizing the police a little bit for not focusing more on searching, yet not really clear whether they`ll let them be interviewed again. But definitely trying to create a defense is a fair way to put it E.D.
Hill: All right. Jim, thank you. And Linda, I want to ask you because you know, Joe Tacopina, as Jim mentioned working on that Joran Van Der Sloot and you working on the Casey Anthony trial, you can understand why people are looking at her with suspicion.
LINDA KENNEY BADEN, FORMER MEMBER OF CASEY ANTHONY`S DEFENSE TEAM: Well, you`re always look at the parents. But you know what, I look at that scene and I saw the window still there and the crib still in the house. I mean (INAUDIBLE) would never would have done this. Why weren`t they taken out and given to the crime lab to look for it if that`s a consideration. Because you want to see if indeed the parents are guilty or not guilty. You want to see if their suspect or not suspect.
But what I was going to tell you -- what`s going to happen here E.D. At some point they go that because of the drinking, they`re going to arrest that mother. They`re going to arrest the father for allowing her to care for that child while she`s drunk. They`re going to separate them and they`re going to try to turn them on one another whether or not they`re guilty or not.
HILL: So would you counsel them to continue talking to police?
KENNEY BADEN: Through their lawyer.
HILL: Only through the lawyer now.
KENNEY-BADEN: It`s been a week, it`s been more -- it`s been a lot of time. They have to now talk through the lawyer. Submit me questions and we`ll give you the answers. Also what`s going to happen to them, the court is going to take those kids and they`re going to look at those kids and they`ll appoint a guardian and go question those kids --
(CROSSTALK)
TOM RUSKIN, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE: I think at a certain point in time, what they may do is they may have to lawyer up with separate attorneys.
HILL: Right.
RUSKIN: They may have conflicting interests.
HILL: Because they`re not married.
RUSKIN: They`re not married but it wouldn`t matter --
HILL: They`re not married; she`s married to somebody else, apparently separated. One of the children is the boyfriend`s child with someone else. The other child is her child with her estranged husband and this third baby, the baby that`s missing is their child together.
So there are so many pieces I had to have a flowchart in the office. It makes it very difficult. You`re saying separate counsel.
RUSKIN: Eventually, they may have to have separate counsels. If one is arrested, they may behoove the other one to get separate counsel. And Joe Tacopina, being the attorney that he is, the excellent attorney he is, he may say at a certain point in time, I can only represent Deborah or I can only represent the husband.
HILL: You know Joe?
RUSKIN: Yes.
HILL: Is he setting up a defense? Because it sure sounded like it.
RUSKIN: He is definitely looking to protect his clients.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEY BADEN: A nice way to put it.
RUSKIN: He is. He is looking to protect his clients. And that`s his job at this point in time. Also, because he believes his clients are innocent, is to get the police do what the police should be doing all along. What the FBI did today.
What the FBI did today is they came in with scent dog, got permission to go into the house, retrieve a scent from the crib and from her car and then to drive the dogs to see where it takes them. See if it takes them to the abandoned house where they found those diapers.
Hill: Let me ask Jim another question. Jim, I heard that they also very quietly were trying to -- did take things from a neighbor`s house. Did you see that or hear anything about it?
SPELLMAN: What we saw in the neighbor`s house was dogs go in with the police they were in there for some time and they came out with bags. We initially were wondering if this was evidence or something. The FBI told that those were just materials the dogs used when they`re doing these scents.
So we know that this is a family that has babysat the child before and looked after the child and maybe had regular contact, just right next door. We are wondering if those were the scents that you just mentioned, coming out to add to that search. We`re not sure about that yet. We weren`t able to get that confirmed. That`s (INAUDIBLE) question we have in for the police.
KENNEY BADEN: E.D. one other thing that is going to happen here is that, you know, you can`t discount the possibility this child was taken because is she`s alive, (INAUDIBLE) we need to find that child.
HILL: Right.
KENNEY BADEN: And somebody could have seen that child with that mother being a drunk and said, this family doesn`t deserve to have that baby, we have to protect that baby. So until we know, all efforts have to be on finding that baby.
HILL: Well, normally, I think that is the first thing you think is that somebody who can`t have a child or whatever has gone and snatched a baby.
RUSKIN: But to Linda`s point, it could have been someone who said she gets drunk all the time, she passes out, I`m going to --
HILL: And we don`t know that. Let me say, we don`t know that and she acknowledges she was drinking and was drunk that night.
RUSKIN: It`s a different -- well, now, we do. She has come out. She`s basically -- has told two different stories. That as an investigator would rub me the wrong way and it`s also why she may have failed the polygraph the first time. She knew she was telling lies. She knew she was telling lies. She knows that it wasn`t 10:30, it`s now 6:30. She could have very possible failed the polygraph the first time only because of those lies.
KENNEY-BADEN: Right. Right. Absolutely.
HILL: But if she knew -- you know, by saying these things, it`s clear that she did know more than --
KENNEY-BADEN: Yes, but if you`re -- let`s just say, if she`s drunk, what if she fell asleep and rolled over on the child and actually suffocated it? She could have done nothing. She may be innocent. The problem is no one seems to know and because you lie and tell different stories doesn`t mean you`re guilty of murder or hurting your child. It could mean you`re guilty of trying to cover up something else or maybe not. We don`t know.
HILL: Tom, you can understand though -- you want for police investigative purposes you have to go in there and assume that`s the crime scene and it`s not just the baby gone but the parents as the suspects.
RUSKIN: Correct.
HILL: And so you have to really focus on the area that you know the child was in yet at the same time the mother and other people are accurately also saying, you spent all the time here, you can`t spend the time there. Can you effectively run the investigation doing it all?
RUSKIN: Well, with 30 to 40 investigators which Kansas City Police Department have given plus the FBI people, you`re running a very intense investigation and you are traveling and following up on every lead. I think they`re up to 500 leads at this point in time. They`re following up on those leads as well.
I think eventually the story will air out if the parents are responsible or if someone else is responsible. But I`d say that police department is doing everything that they possibly could do. The parents also have to protect themselves, especially if they know that they`re innocent.
KENNEY-BADEN: And we know they want to find those cell phones. We haven`t talked about it. Those cell phones -- I mean where the cell phones are is where you find --
(CROSSTALK)
RUSKIN: Except what came out today, which is very, interesting, the police said that there was a call at 2:30 in the morning. The cell phones were shut off, they couldn`t pay for them is what the parents are saying today so they couldn`t have made an out-going call at 2:30 in the morning. The police may have been using that as a ploy. But the parents know that they were not telling them the truth.
KENNEY-BADEN: But the phones are still missing. So where are the phones? Where`s the baby?
(CROSSTALK)
RUSKIN: What`s weird to me is how the parents haven`t tried that phone. If I had lost my phone and my baby, I`d be trying those phones every 10 minutes. Her parents said that they never have tried it.
HILL: There are a lot of questions here that have not been answered here. Thank you so much for joining us.
KENNEY-BADEN: Thank you.
RUSKIN: Thank you.
HILL: Always fascinating talking to you.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Linda Kenny Baden and Jim Spellman down in Missouri. And thank you everyone.
We`re going to have more on the disappearance of Baby Lisa after a quick break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still to come, race car driver Dan Wheldon dies in a fiery 15-car pileup. But could this crash have been avoided?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: I`m back.
And we`re continuing our conversation about Lisa Irwin, the missing baby from Missouri. Joining me know to discuss this Diena Thompson, mother of Somer Thompson. Somer was 7 years old when she was murdered by a sex offender. Diena is also the president of the Somer Thompson Foundation. And Dr. Gail Saltz also joins us here in the studio, a clinical psychiatrist and associate professor of psychiatry at the New York Presbyterian Hospital. Thank you both.
And Diena let me start with you. You know as a mom, I think it`s impossible to imagine hurting your own child. But a lot of folks are saying, well, the story is changing, the police are now talking to her again. She says, I expect to be arrested. You were a suspect at one point. Are they -- I guess in their investigation they can -- they were looking at you as well. And she`s saying, don`t waste your time, just go find my daughter.
Can you relate to that?
DIENA THOMPSON, MOTHER OF SOMER THOMPSON: Yes of course. I mean there -- 77 percent of the time when a child is abducted, it`s by a friend, a family member and acquaintance or neighbor So, I understand why they look at you. But it does get frustrating you know in the beginning of an investigation why they`re trying to rule out yourself and any other family members for them to -- for you to think that they think you did it. And I can understand and I can relate to what she`s saying. But I -- I the changing of the story is concerning.
HILL: Yes, that certainly is.
Gail talk to me about that. You know, I`m trying to understand, it`s difficult. But now, she`s saying I was drunk, right?
DR. GAIL SALTZ, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Right.
HILL: I got a box of wine, drank it.
SALTZ: Yes.
HILL: I told the cops that I saw my -- my daughter last at 10:30 at night, now it`s probably maybe 6:30, I think.
SALTZ: You know, you can imagine that`s something you`d want to cover up whatever the case maybe.
HILL: Right. Is that a normal covering up because you don`t want everybody to know you were drinking and --
(CROSSTALK)
SALT: You know we don`t know but you could really understand that -- that`s neglect and abuse of sorts itself so it`s not exactly something you want to readily admit to authorities or for that matter to yourself.
So that even if -- if someone else came into the house admitting to yourself that you drank and you blacked out and therefore you didn`t hear someone come into your house and steal your child would leave you feeling very culpable and guilty. And it -- and it actually makes her comments, you know, I`m going to get arrested shortly. It may be true but it also may be that she feels guilty and she feels you know even somewhat deserving of some sort of punishment because it`s not ok to get drunk and pass out and leave your baby.
HILL: Right but it`s that changing story. And Diena, when -- when you first talked to the police and certainly the circumstances are very different in these two. But when you first talked to them, I assume that as a mom you -- you`re going to -- you`re going to lay it out there, the dirt and all because you just want to give them the facts, the real facts so that to find -- they find your child. Does it -- is it hard for you to believe that she did that change with the times? Because the timing is so critical in an investigation like this.
THOMPSON: of course. I mean, I agree with what the doctor said, you know that she -- she might feel guilty. I`ve said it before I feel guilty because Somer got abducted walking home from school. And you know what if -- you know a whole bunch of what ifs.
HILL: Yes.
THOMPSON: So she maybe feeling guilty for that reason but God knows we`ve got to get all -- have put all the truth on the table whether we`re scared of it or not. We`ve got to find this little baby. I mean, it -- it you know we`re -- I think of this mother as you`re presumed innocent until shown that you`re guilty and that`s how I will look at it until -- until I hear otherwise.
HILL: You know I didn`t mention it. But you`re amazingly strong to come on and talk to us tonight. And I really appreciate it. It was -- it was two years ago this week that you`re daughter was -- was taken. And you know, it sounds to me, and you just said, you go through the what ifs. It sounds like you`re still kind of going through the what ifs.
THOMPSON: They never stop, they never go away today -- you know she went missing on a Monday. Today right now is 104 weeks ago my baby got taken away. And you know, this is the second year in a row, in October, last year, Zahra Baker was missing and now this little baby, Lisa. It`s -- it`s -- I what-if all day everyday and, you know, just trying to be strong for my family and for other people who are around --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Right.
THOMPSON: -- who know what I feel and feel for this mother herself.
HILL: I guess you should take heart in that, and that you are doing everything you can with your life right now to help other people in similar situations.
Gail, talk to me a bit about the -- the interviews that these parents are doing. I thought it was odd. If my child was missing, I would be talking to the police for sure, investigators, FBI, CSI, you name it. But I wouldn`t be running around giving TV interviews to every Tom, Dick and Harry. They`re doing that.
SALTZ: You know under incredible duress and there isn`t really much more of a stressful situation than this, than having your child missing, you don`t know what people will do. They react in all kinds of ways.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: So this is normal?
SALTZ: I`m not saying it`s -- it doesn`t appear normal in some ways. But what I`m saying is this isn`t a normal situation. And under this kind of stress, people can act very oddly and do things that aren`t to their benefit, aren`t to other people`s benefit, might not be to the benefit of the investigation.
And combine that with we`re living in a time where people -- and I do think this is odd, people seem to believe that unless it`s on broadcast TV, Facebook, Twitter, somewhere public, it`s almost like it didn`t happen. We`ve become the society of having to emote publicly in order to be validated in some way. So there`s this underlying message and I don`t know if that`s affecting them or affect parents to make them feel that in order to be heard they have to go on television.
HILL: Diena, I know that they are going to be watching TV, watching the interviews following what`s going on with this -- with this investigation you know every second, as I imagine, any parent would do. Is there anything that you would tell them at this point?
THOMPSON: You know, don`t -- don`t feel guilty. You can`t what-if yourself. It won`t make a bit of difference. It doesn`t change the outcome, regardless whether it be good, bad, indifferent. It`s not going to change it.
I`d say be completely honest. They might make you feel like they`re looking at you as a suspect. But if you know you`re innocent, then you know you`re innocent and that`s all that matters.
HILL: All right. We`re going to take a quick break and continue in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: We are back talking about that missing baby, Lisa Irwin. Dr. Gail Saltz joins us and Diena Thompson, as well.
Gail, you have seen some of the interviews with the mom, with the dad. Is there anything about their demeanor that strikes you as interesting or you can take away something from?
SALTZ: I think really what everybody should take away is you simply can`t judge a book by its cover. This is -- you know, on the stressful list of tragedies, this is the tippy top. People who have lost a child, their risk of suicide in the first year after that is really high. So to judge, you know, that they look nervous or they look uncomfortable or they look overly involved with the camera -- I mean we don`t know what these things mean.
HILL: Everybody reacts differently.
SALTZ: Everybody reacts differently. And we`re judging them differently because we all have preconceived notions
Do you know how many viewers probably are judging them from the Casey Anthony case?
HILL: Absolutely.
SALTZ: You know, simply feeling like well, she didn`t get what she deserved and now I want somebody to get what they deserve. We project our own.
HILL: I think -- and again, you know, talking as a mom, I do think I`m one of those judgmental people. I go, ok, a little bitty baby, you`re sitting there with a box of wine not knowing whether or not you checked in on your child. I do get judgmental about that because I think, you took on the responsibility.
SALTZ: You know what, it`s not ok. But that isn`t murder so -- but it`s very hard to control those emotions especially when we`re parents.
HILL: Yes.
SALTZ: And we have feelings like I would just never do that to my child and it angers me to imagine somebody doing that.
HILL: You know Diena, I have talked to and gotten to know a number of families with children who have been killed in military action. It has been sad but interesting also how at times, it has changed people`s lives so completely, not just the loss of a child, but the way that they are able to have relationships with other people and some cases it has crushed marriages, crushed families.
What did you experience? Is there something that -- and we assume these parents are in no way connected to this. I think we have to go with that assumption. Is there something you can do that gives them heart and gives them strength?
THOMPSON: I mean, you know, I agree with everything you just said. I feel like my family, you know, if you can envision like one big huge, you know, group of people all to make up one big person, like an arm fell off here and a leg fell off there, that`s how we really felt like really in the beginning of all this, like we were just falling apart. But also, it`s given me more insight as to whether somebody is really there for good intentions or bad intentions.
You know, just -- wow, I mean there`s so much I could say, really. Just be careful, you know, really -- people want to be there but they don`t always have the best intentions. That would be something I would definitely say to watch out for.
HILL: All right. Well, Diena, thank you so much and Dr. Gail Saltz, thank you as well.
And I want to let folks know that if you`re in Florida. Wednesday is the second angel-versary vigil in honor of Somer Thompson. It`s being held at Orange Park, Florida. And if you`d like more information on it, go to somerthompsonfoundation.org.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: A terrible tragedy in Las Vegas on Sunday when Dan Wheldon, a 33-year-old race car driver who won the Indy 500 twice in short career, died after crashing during the race. Wheldon leaving behind his wife and their two young sons. He was one of the most popular drivers on the tour, and his death now raising new questions about the danger of high-speed racing.
Joining us now, ESPN pit-road reporter Jamie Little. Jamie, thanks for being with us.
There was some question about the speeds that they were racing on, even the day before when they were practicing. Has there been more talk about that now?
JAMIE LITTLE, ESPN: Of course a lot of people naturally want to talk about the speeds and what was different, and a lot of people, naturally, when somebody is killed, they want to pinpoint something that went wrong. But the reality is there`s always nerves going into an Indy car race. What was nerving for a lot of these guys is that there were a lot of unknowns. This was the first time they had raced on this new surface and this new high banking at this particular track. You add in the fact that they had 34 cars instead of the traditional 20 to 24 cars in the field, so there were a lot of drivers that didn`t have a lot of experience at these speeds on this size of track.
But what happened with Dan Wheldon, you can`t say that wouldn`t have happened if it was lower speeds or 15 cars. So it`s one of those freak accidents that is just so unfortunate, but we all know in racing, it is an inherent danger.
HILL: Well, you are an amazingly professional and very strong. A lot of people may not realize this, but Jamie was very good friends with Dan Wheldon, his family. He was one of the guys that I think you really got to know first when you started covering racing. You`re there at the scene, you are covering this. You`re at the hospital. That had to have been really hard for you.
LITTLE: It was definitely the hardest day for me in my career, especially on the job. And you know, I cover racing and all of us who cover motorsports, you`re so close to these drivers because we`re with them week in and week out. We have access to them before they get in the race car, when they get out of a race car. When they have had an accident, we`re right there with the microphone.
And when I started covering the Indy car series back in 2004, Dan Wheldon was the first guy that I could actually call a friend on and off the track. He just had this infectious personality, always smiling and always teasing me. He did things to me when I was on the air, he dumped ice down my back, and he jumped in the middle of an interview. I mean, he just loved to have fun. He loved his job. And on top of that, he was a tremendous talent, a tremendous champion. And above all, I want people to know what a great person he really was.
HILL: We have a photo on screen right now of Dan with one of his children. What happened at the hospital? You were at the hospital. You know his family, and I understand his wife and his kids, almost his whole family was there. What was going on?
LITTLE: Yes. Well, when everything happened, I actually had to go to the infield care center, because there were so many drivers involved. You go there, and that`s what we do, that is protocol after a normal accident. You go there, you get the stories, you talk to drivers who`ve been checked and released.
You can tell that the vibe was a little different, it was a little more intense. There were drivers going in and out. And it started getting more serious. And we knew that it was Dan Wheldon at that time. And I remember seeing his wife, Suzy, come into the care center when they had brought Dan in there before they put him on the helicopter. And I saw her get consoled by the chaplain for the Indy racing league. And I saw her reaction, and then everything kind of changed. And a car showed up, she jumped in the car, and Dan`s sister was in the car, his three brothers were there, and the children as well.
So I went on, I met them at the hospital. I didn`t see his wife, she was there in with Dan, but I did see some of the other family members. And his parents weren`t there. They`re back home in England. Fortunate he did have a lot of family in town in Las Vegas for this.
HILL: You know, it was horrible. It`s horrible when any life is taken, but these guys are racing at 200 plus miles an hour. It can`t be that shocking that when you do that for a living, there are going to be accidents and deadly ones at that. Do the families -- do you get the sense that the families understand this, or is there a feeling of almost being invincible when they`re inside those cars? Because the cars are very safe. They`ve taken all these new precautions with the padded walls and all that. Is there kind of this feeling that, yes, you`ll have a wreck but it is not going to be that bad?
LITTLE: Right. Going into it, there`s always the nerves, that`s why there`s always the kiss before you get in the car with the husband and wife. They always say, I love you. It`s just known that it can happen. It`s the dangers of what they do. But chances are they are going to be OK, they`re going to get out of that race car at the end of the day and they will be home for dinner.
But in the back of our minds, whether you`re a reporter, you`re a driver, you`re a wife, you`re a family member, you know that this can happen. You just don`t want to believe that it will. And when it does, it strikes everybody, and it changes the way that you see things.
HILL: Did you sense a mood change with the drivers after this?
LITTLE: Absolutely. The reaction -- like I said, Dan was so infectious. He had so many great friends in that garage that he competed against for years. And they all respected him and adored him. He was so much fun. And when they were getting news slowly finding out what had happened and that he had been lost, the tears that you saw -- the league did the right thing, they didn`t let the race continue. Instead, they put all the drivers in their cars for five laps to pay tribute to Dan Wheldon. And you could visibly see the tears. Dario Franchetti was -- just clenched his third straight championship. That was the last thing on his mind. All he thought about was his buddy, Dan Wheldon, just lost his life and he had tears. And you felt it. You felt that it hit all of them.
And you know, the good thing about the Indy racing league, this was the last race with this car. A new generation race car is coming out next year. And as ironic as it sounds, Dan Wheldon was leading the way in the development of that car, and it`s going to be safer. And when we saw those cars take flight yesterday, the new car is supposed to stop that from happening more often. So, it`s just -- it`s sad. It was a sad day in the league.
HILL: Certainly, the world of racing lost a wonderful driver and you lost a friend. So thank you for taking time to be with us tonight.
LITTLE: Thank you for letting me talk about him.
HILL: Indy driver Paul Tracy amassed 31 victories in his 20 years of racing, but yesterday`s accident will be one race he will never, ever forget, because it was his car that Dan Wheldon hit right before he went airborne. And Paul joins us now. Thank you for being with us.
We`ve all watched that video. And so we know exactly where you were. When his car came down, and I don`t know how far it flew, were you able to see it as it landed?
PAUL TRACY, DRIVER: There was obviously a lot going on at that time. I saw when the accident had started, I saw two cars touch. I instantly got off the gas and was starting to slow down, and then the car that was starting to spin, you know, at 225 miles an hour, everything happens in the blink of an eye. And I hit the car in front of me. A car flew over the top of my car, hit my car.
HILL: There we go. We`re watching it right now.
TRACY: From there, it`s just smoke and car parts and fire. And you really can`t see a lot of anything. It all comes to a screeching halt. And, you know, over my career, once I got out of the car, I have never seen anything that looked -- it was almost like something out of a movie set, "Days of Thunder" or something, where you see all these parts and cars on fire. It was really quite an unbelievable scene.
HILL: You know, it has struck me that in a career, in a field where these things are -- you know, crashes are pretty commonplace, you all are used to them. You realize there have been crashes, there have been all these safety precautions taken, and almost all the time you walk away from them, you know, with really nicks and dings but that`s about all. You realized right away that this was something pretty serious. It sounds like the other drivers, this has shaken a lot of people.
TRACY: Well, it really has. Obviously, we -- as a racing driver, I`ve been around the sport a long time, I`ve had a long career. There was a lot of young drivers there that were in the accident, have never come across something like this in their past. I`ve been, you know, I`ve seen a few of my friends die in racing accidents. Obviously, it`s a tremendous tragedy. It`s something that you never want to see, but at the end of the day, we all know this is a dangerous sport. It`s a part of the sport that nobody likes to see. And our condolences go out to Dan and his family and his wife and kids. It`s a terrible day, but out of this something good has to happen. You know, in the years past when Dale Earnhardt Sr. died and Greg Moore died, there was a lot of good things that have come out of this that will progress in the years to come because of Dan`s memory, and we hope that`s what we can achieve.
HILL: One of the things that has been talked about is that it was just flat out too fast. I know it`s race car driving, but some folks, even folks racing in it were saying that they were questioning the speeds the cars were getting to and the amount of cars in the field. Is that a valid concern?
TRACY: I mean, it is. I mean, I`ve raced cars over my career where I`ve run 240 miles an hour in qualifying at some tracks. I`ve been in cars that we`ve run slower.
You know, I think the biggest problem, we had a lot of cars in the field. There were some drivers in the field that were maybe not as qualified as some other drivers, and the wreck really started from two rookie drivers that touched each other.
You know, ultimately, races, there`s going to be crashes in races, whether it`s rookies or veteran drivers. I`m not trying to place the blame on anybody, but this is a side of the sport that we never like to see.
HILL: Yes. We appreciate you joining us and offering your perspective. Paul Tracy, thank you.
TRACY: Thank you.
HILL: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: In Hollywood, a place where appearance is everything, how much does size really matter? It may be less than you think, thanks to the hit show, "Mike and Molly." Now, the show revolves around a couple who meet and then fall in love at an Overeaters Anonymous meeting. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s early (ph). Is everything OK?
GARDELL: Well, there was a little mishap with the vessel. Apparently when you represent one-third of the ship`s ballast, you should probably keep your seat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You sunk a boat?
GARDELL: Yes. Sunk a boat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Joining me now is one of the stars of "Mike and Molly," comedian Billy Gardell. Thanks so much for being here.
BILLY GARDELL, "MIKE & MOLLY": Hi, thank you for having me, appreciate it.
HILL: I`m one of the many, many people obviously in America who love watching your show.
GARDELL: Thank you.
HILL: When it first came out, there was a lot of controversy about it because folks were saying there are too many fat jokes, and then other people were saying this is making being fat acceptable. Are either of those accurate?
GARDELL: I think people have too much time on their hands. I`m sure you`re referring to the Marie Claire blog where she said that fat people shouldn`t be able to fall in love.
HILL: That was probably the most shocking of it. I`m sure she regrets ever writing it.
GARDELL: Well, you know, I came on "The View" and talked to the girls about that. They were -- I talked to Joy in fact about that -- and you know, not everybody is going to like you and some people have their own issues, so I choose to ride with the 14 million a week that do like us. So that`s OK with me.
HILL: 14 million a week is not bad.
GARDELL: I`m not angry with that woman. She has her thing, and I`m sure she learned from that mistake.
HILL: I will be real honest, because it`s what I do, right or wrong, the first time I watched where I saw the, you know, sort of the more intimate scene, I remember just kind of being taken aback and thinking, don`t see that. I guess we`re used to with larger people, you think back to Roseanne Barr--
GARDELL: Sure, Dan, Roseanne and Dan.
HILL: And they weren`t doing the same sort of thing. It was all the schtick. It wasn`t the relationship.
GARDELL: They had some tender moments on "Roseanne." They had some very honest moments on it.
HILL: But there is a real love connection.
GARDELL: Yes, there is definitely a connection. And the creator of our show, Mark Roberts, is a Chicago playwright. And when he set out and created this show, he told us at the beginning, he said this is about two people who thought they were never going to fall in love getting to fall in love. And I think that`s why people root for the show.
HILL: You can relate to it.
GARDELL: And what`s great is, you know, while Mike and Molly are working on their health, that`s their flaw, the people that surround them are actually -- that`s the mess. Those two have it together the most.
HILL: They`re the nutty ones.
GARDELL: Yes. You have got her mom who`s just swilling wine, the sister is out of control, played by Katie Mixon. And Reno Wilson plays my buddy, who`s your best friend who gives you all sorts of advice on things he`s never done. I mean, that`s real life. I got a mother played by Rondi Reed, who`s the perfect Midwest Northeast mother, where nothing is going to work out, everything is bad, don`t expect anything good. I mean, those are real-life things.
HILL: I notice the glass of wine in the hand is always --
GARDELL: Always.
HILL: Always a staple.
GARDELL: It`s that big.
HILL: However, nobody is saying that`s promoting alcoholism.
GARDELL: Right, exactly.
HILL: Doesn`t it strike you as kind of odd that they pick on one thing and not something else? And for that matter, does Hollywood care, do they care about what they really --
GARDELL: I don`t know.
HILL: Are they America`s police or are they there to make money and run (ph) a business (ph)?
GARDELL: I don`t think they`re America`s police. I think they are you know -- I think it was a risk to do that because we`ve become such a society that`s based just on looks. And I think the entertainment field has suffered a little because of that. I mean, in the `70s, the actors and the musicians, if you looked at those guys, they wouldn`t get in the door these days. Nobody would look at Bruce Dern or Gene Hackman or Dustin Hoffman and go, that`s a leading man. They were there because they were talented. Nowadays, I think it`s a little different.
HILL: Do you think you`re breaking that?
GARDELL: I don`t know. I think we`re making people aware that everybody has feelings, everybody is allowed to fall in love, and I think that`s a positive thing.
HILL: Does it ever hurt your feelings?
GARDELL: No, I`m a comic, man, I have a callous on my feelings. I`ve been doing standup since like--
HILL: I know you`re a professional but that`s something very personal.
(CROSSTALK)
GARDELL: You know, it`s different -- if it`s a stranger doing it, it either makes you angry or a little hurt. But when it`s like a friend of yours, a friend of yours who can tease you. I got a buddy who`s short and I`m on him about being short and he`s on me about being big.
HILL: Height challenged. Not short.
GARDELL: The point is -- whatever. Short. Short. But the point is, you can tease each other as long as there is a little love behind it. Because you`re also, you`re confronting that issue together as friends.
The truth without love is abuse. If you just say it just to be mean, that`s abuse. If you say it like, hey, man, I`m a little worried about you, you know what I mean, there`s a line. I think there is a line. And with humor, if it`s done the right way, with a little bit of love underneath it, I think you can get away with anything.
HILL: So what about that Marie Claire piece? Is that something -- because it was a stranger, obviously. Did that hurt?
GARDELL: I got angry when I first read it. And then I thought to myself, this woman is just mixed up and she`s got her own issues. I think she had anorexic issues, so obviously--
HILL: She had weight issues herself, yes.
GARDELL: -- if she saw me on TV, she must have been horrified. You know, just trying to put myself in her place. I mean, I`m sure, you know, she`s dealt with this, and people really let her know how what she said was --
HILL: They did. They came down on her.
GARDELL: So I rely on our fans, and I think at the core, most people are pretty decent.
HILL: So I read that you recently lost 25 pounds.
GARDELL: I did.
HILL: Are you trying to lose weight?
GARDELL: I`m trying -- I just want to have enough energy to do the show. It`s a lot of work with the show. I have been a big guy all my life, I am not going to lose a bunch of weight, because then you`re like that weird fat person that got skinny but still has a big head. I don`t want to do that. So I`m just trying--
HILL: I`m visualizing it right now.
GARDELL: I just want to -- you know, I want to just be healthy. I`ve lost 25. I always joke with the producers that they got me a trainer because the ratings are good. The ratings go away, then there`s no trainer.
HILL: A trainer?
GARDELL: Yeah, he`s a great guy. His name is Chris Diesel (ph). Romanian. Romanian.
HILL: That`s scary.
GARDELL: Yeah, but I need that kind of guy, because I`m a Pittsburgh guy. I`m not going to respond to how are you feeling today? I need a guy who`s like, let`s go, no talking.
HILL: Stay right there, quick break. More with Billy in just a moment. But first a sneak peek at Joy`s interview tomorrow night with Martin Sheen and his son, Emilio Estevez. Among the topics they discuss, you bet, Charlie Sheen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, HOST: He`s been in the public eye a lot lately.
EMILIO ESTEVEZ: No way. Has he?
MARTIN SHEEN: Is that who they`ve been talking about?
ESTEVEZ: I thought it was weird. He has the same last name and everything.
BEHAR: I know. Did you realize that was him.
ESTEVEZ: Just now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: We are back, talking to the star of "Mike and Molly," Billy Gardell. I should say one of the two stars of the show.
GARDELL: One of the two. Yes.
HILL: Melissa gets a little credit, too, doesn`t she?
GARDELL: Yes, absolutely.
HILL: She just won an Emmy.
GARDELL: Amazing, right? Absolutely.
HILL: Not that amazing when you watch her, because she`s fantastic. But you all must have been just thrilled.
GARDELL: We were absolutely blown away.
HILL: What did you do?
GARDELL: Well, we were at home. I was at home with my wife and my child and my manager. And when they announced it --
HILL: Your manager lives with you?
GARDELL: No, but he`s a good friend. I`ve been with him 22 years. It`s not a normal Hollywood relationship. I actually like him.
HILL: It`s a person you like, he`s a friend.
GARDELL: I actually care about him.
HILL: OK, so you have your buddy over.
GARDELL: So anyway, they were over, and they said her name and we jumped up like it was a play in the Super Bowl. And then my wife and I went to the after-parties. But to watch her win that and the way she won it and how gracious she was when she gave her acceptance speech, that was a real reflection of who she is. And it really -- our show is, like, we were -- everybody was so proud of her. When she came into work on Monday, when she pulled up, we were waiting out by her parking space and we had the "USA Today" cover and we cheered her on. It was really a beautiful moment for our show.
HILL: Well, we`ve got -- we don`t have 14 million viewers like some people we know. However, we do have a lot of viewers, and they e-mail us and contact us and Facebook us.
GARDELL: All right.
HILL: And so here`s some of the questions we got on Facebook and so I want to throw them out at you.
GARDELL: Sure, certainly.
HILL: It says you started in standup in the late `80s. How is the comedy scene different now?
GARDELL: It`s unbelievably amazing right now. I`ve gone from playing small clubs, you know, 80 people on a Thursday, maybe a big show on Saturday night, 60 people on a Sunday, to casinos and theaters which are 1,200, 1,500 people. And it just blows me away. And all of that is because of "Mike and Molly." About 20 percent of those people know who I am from standup; the other 80 percent completely from "Mike and Molly," and it`s nice to be able to turn them on to the fact that I`m a standup, because that`s another career which I never want to let go of.
HILL: Let me ask you about standup comedy, because I`m always interested when watching people who do standup and the topics they choose to discuss. Is it only politically correct for fat people to do fat jokes?
GARDELL: Well, I don`t do any fat jokes. I don`t do any fat jokes--
HILL: When you watch --
GARDELL: But you`re fat. No, I don`t do fat jokes.
HILL: But when you watch folks, they do tend to--
GARDELL: Yes, I think a black person can do black jokes. I think an Asian person can do Asian jokes. That`s because it`s -- I think that`s acceptable. I think if you`re doing -- if you`re going outside that line, you`re just making people a little awkward. And you better be really funny about it.
HILL: Then this question goes to that.
GARDELL: You better be really funny about it.
HILL: Another viewer said you opened for George Carlin, who once said it`s the duty of a comedian to find the line and cross it.
GARDELL: It`s the duty of that comedian. Some comedians like to cross the lines. Some guys don`t. Some guys stand in the middle of the road. I started, when I started out, very angry and way over the line. And then as I got older, see, I think a lot of times with comics, your life kind of permeates your act. Whatever is happening in your life is what`s going on on stage. So if you`re angry in your life, then that`s going to be on stage. If you`re looking for the guy that`s just going to make you laugh for an hour and forget about, that`s me.
HILL: Come to you.
GARDELL: Yes.
HILL: And come to you for that great show.
GARDELL: Thank you.
HILL: Thanks so much for joining us.
GARDELL: Thank you.
HILL: You can see Billy in "Mike and Molly" Monday nights 9:30 on CBS. Thank you for watching. I`m E.D. Hill. Good night, everyone.
END
