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Joy Behar Page
Search for Baby Lisa; Michael Jackson Death Trial; Obama`s Late Night Laughs; Interview With Toni Braxton
Aired October 26, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, cops searching for missing Baby Lisa Irwin want to re-interview Lisa`s entire family including her two young brothers. But they`re keeping mum about a security video showing a man walking near Lisa`s home the night she disappeared. Joy will find out why.
Then the defense brings out character witnesses to vouch for Conrad Murray and his history of saving lives. But will that outweigh two weeks of the jury hearing about Michael Jackson dying under his care?
Plus six-time Grammy winner, Toni Braxton tells Joy how she`s gotten her life together after battling bankruptcy and health problems.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: I want to start tonight with the missing child in Kansas City. Police are now hoping interviews with Baby Lisa`s half brothers will shed some light on her disappearance. The baby`s parents have now decided to allow police to re-interview the two young boys about the night their sister went missing. So how can this impact the case? That`s what we want to know.
And here to discuss these developments are CNN`s Jim Spellman, who joins us from Kansas City, Missouri; Marcia Clark, author of "Guilt by Association"; and Tom Ruskin, private investigator and former NYPD detective/investigator.
Jim, Lisa`s parents had been refusing to let the authorities re- question the boys. The boys are 8 years old and 6 years old. Now, they are allowing it. So what changed?
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN ALL-PLATFORM JOURNALIST: Well, they`ve been under intense scrutiny, Joy, for three weeks now to let these boys be re- interviewed. Keep in mind, that evening, Deborah Bradley, the mother of Baby Lisa was drinking. She says she last saw Baby Lisa around 6:40. So while she was drinking with a neighbor, those boys were in the house. They could be vital source of information.
And since then, police have gotten over 900 tips that they`ve been chasing down. Any input that they can get from the family can help them with those leads, Joy.
BEHAR: But they did speak to the boys already, the cops, the day after Lisa disappeared. So how is this going to be any different from that?
SPELLMAN: Well, in those three weeks they`ve done a lot of investigation here, massive search in the house. They`ve learned a lot and they`re not getting anything from the parents who refuse to be re- interviewed at this point. So anywhere they can information, they hope to get it.
They were only briefly interviewed that night of the disappearance by a social worker, not police. Those same social workers will do this interview on Friday, Joy.
BEHAR: But aren`t police feeding questions to the social workers so it`s sort of like an interview by the police by proxy? Isn`t it?
SPELLMAN: It is. It is indeed. The parents though tell us that they`ve been trying to weight, what they say are the needs of the children versus the needs of the investigation of the police. They feel now that the circumstances, using these social workers, being assured that it won`t be confrontational. They feel more comfortable. Now, that`s what we`re hearing through their attorneys here and that`s what giving them the go ahead because they`re more comfortable doing this on Friday.
BEHAR: Ok thanks.
Ok Tom, isn`t it difficult to interview these children? I mean that has to be a tough thing?
TOM RUSKIN, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: It`s a very difficult thing for a cop and a social worker and child psychologist to interview children, especially at 8 and 6. You have to be very careful the way you ask the question because you can ask the same child the same question within 15 minutes and they may slightly change it or exaggerate.
BEHAR: Yes.
RUSKIN: They may have also overheard things by other parents and other adults that they may now repeat. So you have to be very, very careful and that`s why they`re using a psychologist and social worker to try and interview these kids.
BEHAR: Marcia, what do you think the authorities can learn from these kids?
MARCIA CLARK, AUTHOR, "GUILT BY ASSOCIATION": Well, you never know what they actually saw or heard, Joy, especially no questioning by -- that has anything to do with the police perspective has been done with them yet. So it`s entirely possible that they did hear noises. They may have heard someone intrude. They may have heard their mother say something. I mean even though she doesn`t remember it, she could have blacked and lost memory of things.
So they could be a fount of information at this point. And because it was only social worker investigation up until this point, social worker kind of questions, that just goes to the welfare of the children and are they ok. Not so much, what did you see and what did you hear and where were you at the time of.
BEHAR: I see. So that`s --
CLARK: So, it could be very good.
BEHAR: yes. I see. It could be very helpful to the case.
RUSKIN: The other thing that`s interesting in this case is, did the mother purposely lure the child into the bedroom? How did the child end up in bed? When Jeremy gets home, the father of missing Lisa, he says one of the children was in bed with Deborah.
BEHAR: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
RUSKIN: Yes. How did -- why did that child come in? Does the child normally walk in? So this could lead police in a different avenue than before.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. Wow. I didn`t know that. The boy went into the bed with the mother.
RUSKIN: Well, we don`t know. We don`t know how he got into the bedroom. But all we know is when Jeremy got home, he was in bed with Deborah.
BEHAR: Which is not the normal thing?
RUSKIN: I don`t know. I mean -- but that`s one of the things that police would want to know. How did the children -- where were the children put down and how. And the children may shed light there.
BEHAR: Jim, is it true the police are also going to get DNA samples from the boys?
SPELLMAN: The police tell us this evening that if the family will agree, they will take DNA swabs from inside the cheek of these boys. They did this massive here, a 17-hour search a week ago. They want to be able to eliminate a lot of the DNA that they found in the house.
They know that everybody that`s normally in that house is going to leave DNA. Every DNA that they can account for helps them eliminate what DNA that they`re tracking that may have come from a stranger in the house.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, the police also want separate unrestricted interviews with the parents without the attorneys present.
Marcia, is that allowed? That sounded strange to me. It`s like, without attorneys -- I watch "Law & Order" -- and you can always say I want that attorney in there with me. I happen to know this.
CLARK: You`re exactly right, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes, I am.
CLARK: And you get an A -- you get an A in criminal procedure. And I always advise everyone whatever you do, don`t talk until you get a lawyer.
More people -- I think that one thing, that the lawyers have said in their comments to the press is that more people find themselves in police custody and then in jail because they talked without a lawyer, because they talked unadvisedly. That doesn`t necessarily mean they`re guilty but that they don`t know how to protect themselves and think on their feet in terms of answering police questions in a way that is honest and yet does give the right as well as the wrong impression.
And so that is why they`re insisting on having lawyers present. We all look at it on the outside. We go wow, they lawyered up, what does that mean? But I do know that these parents have been questioned rather closely from the very beginning. I also know that the mother was confronted with the fact that she took a polygraph. And I think that is actually very significant. I want to point that out Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
CLARK: The mother took a polygraph. She is not required to do that. No one is required to do that. It`s a voluntary thing. She did it and then she was confronted by the police by saying that she failed. That doesn`t mean she did fail. It could have been a police tactic to get her to admit to something. That may be a reason, too, why they`re lawyering up. So it`s something to think about.
BEHAR: If you say, I don`t want to take the polygraph that makes you look bad and guilty.
RUSKIN: No, it doesn`t necessarily and the lawyer may not allow you. To carry on with Marcia`s point, a lot of times you say I want an attorney present. Cops don`t take that offensively and shouldn`t take it offensively. But what happens is a lawyer will not allow a cop to lead a client down a wrong path.
BEHAR: Right.
RUSKIN: So if they`re lying to the client, the lawyer`s going to stop the interview because he`s not going to allow the police to do it.
BEHAR: Will they turn on each other if they`re interviewed separately?
RUSKIN: Not if they have an attorney with them, an attorney won`t allow them to do that. At this point in time, there`s no reason for separate attorneys. There may come a time that there is.
BEHAR: Now, this baby has been missing for three weeks. Children change from one week to the next. I mean it`s going to be very hard to identify this child, if found dead or alive.
RUSKIN: If the child was legitimately kidnapped, over a period of months, this child is going to change considerably. If it goes another month or two, the child could start to walk. At one year old, it could start to walk.
BEHAR: They do. They do start walking.
RUSKIN: Plus the physical attributes of the child are going to change and police are going to have to look at this to possibly find this child, if it was legitimately kidnapped.
BEHAR: They have those pictures who can draw pictures of you and what you`re going to look like, right, Marcia? They have techniques for that.
CLARK: You know, they do. But nothing is as good as the actual appearance at the time. And the more time passes, especially with a young baby -- it`s a very good point -- they change a lot. And walking, et cetera; you know, it`s going to be easier and easier for someone who kidnapped the baby to say it`s my baby and have no one contradict that.
BEHAR: Is there any more -- maybe Jim knows this -- any more information about the surveillance videos, Jim? You know, these guys, one was carrying a baby with a diaper and another was seen by a video camera just walking in the area? Do we know anything else about that? That was very intriguing information.
SPELLMAN: It is intriguing information and certainly fits in the timeline. But the video is very unclear to tell really what`s going on in that picture. We know that they`ve looked at it but it`s really hard to really gather much information that you can work on off of that. It`s a very quiet time of the night around 4:00 in the morning when that happened. They`re working on it but there`s really not a lot there to work with.
BEHAR: What about the witnesses?
SPELLMAN: I do want to mention -- well, there`s two eyewitnesses at least we know of, a couple actually right here around the corner I interviewed last week, and I thought were very credible. They said they described at 12:15, a man in a white T-shirt, carrying a baby without clothes, just a diaper on.
And the next morning as soon as this was happening with police in the neighborhood, they came forward. We know they`ve been interviewed.
Joy, I want to just mention one thing. Police here absolutely say at no time have they asked -- they interviewed the family without attorney`s present. They really --
BEHAR: They haven`t.
SPELLMAN: They really shot that down hard. But they wouldn`t even -- they wouldn`t even want that at this point because it could jeopardize anything they get out of those interviews.
BEHAR: That`s right.
SPELLMAN: They really hit -- pushed back hard on that.
BEHAR: Ok, thank you guys, very much. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The defense in the Conrad Murray trial called Nurse Cherilyn Lee to the stand yesterday to talk about Michael Jackson`s search for Propofol. Murray`s lawyer asked her to recount the conversation she had with the king of pop.
Let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHERILYN LEE, NURSE PRACTITIONER: He said, "Doctors have told me that it`s safe. I just need to be monitored." I said -- I said, "Well, no doctor is going to do this at your house." He said, "No, I just need somebody to come here and I will be safe, if it was monitored as long as I`m being monitored."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m joined by defense attorney Darren Kavinoky and former prosecutor, Holly -- Holly Hughes. Holly, she seems to be hammering away at Jackson being monitored. Is the defense helping to convince -- convict their client or are they helping to get him off here?
HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Actually Joy, I had the same thought you did. This is not good for the defense. They`re shooting themselves in the foot because basically, they`re saying the patient knew enough to communicate with Dr. Murray, "Hey, if you give me this stuff, monitor me, and make sure you have the appropriate equipment" because we hear her say that later in testimony. She says that`s exactly what I said, if they have the proper equipment and if they monitor me, I`ll be fine on Propofol.
So even if the defense is trying to blame Michael, saying he did this to himself, she doesn`t help because she`s saying the patient knew enough to demand his doctor do this right.
BEHAR: Right ok.
DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Yes. Well clearly, this witness was a double-edged sword. But remember that witnesses don`t have an obligation to talk to lawyers. So when she hit that witness stand, she went in there, totally unrehearsed, totally unprepared. And this was a mission like -- like running into a burning building to grab a treasured item and then run out and try and remain un-singed.
HUGHES: Yes.
KAVINOKY: There are some great stuff that the defense got and specifically it`s about Michael and his drug seeking behavior.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
KAVINOKY: Because really what the defense is trying to do, just to put it in context here.
BEHAR: -- is blame Michael.
KAVINOKY: Well, yes they`ve got to shift the focus from Dr. Murray to Michael Jackson and to the extent possible, to muddy up any investigation problems.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: You know, failure to maintain a crime scene, things like that.
BEHAR: Well, today seemed to be an attempt to try to repair his image because five former patients of Murray testified as character witnesses. They loved the guy. Murray even had tears in his eyes.
Did -- Holly, did the patients have any positive effects do you think, these people?
HUGHES: Well as a person what they did was humanize Dr. Murray. Because he`s been sitting there and he kind of seems some say stoic but others argue disinterested. What this did was show the jury, that yes, he is a caring human being. But it`s not helpful. Because they can say all day long, he`s the best cardiologist in the world. But Joy, he wasn`t an anesthesiologist, he wasn`t a sleep expert.
BEHAR: Yes.
HUGHES: And so the prosecution, if they`re smart will absolutely just tell the truth in closing and say you know what, they`re lovely people, I liked each and every one of them. I would love to hang out with these people. And they told you the truth, he`s a great cardiologist.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
HUGHES: The guy -- he wasn`t acting as a cardiologist when he administered Propofol without the right equipment.
BEHAR: But it doesn`t make him look like a monster.
KAVINOKY: Well, exactly.
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: And the key words there from Hollywood, if they`re smart. Clearly, they are smart, they are well-prepared. But with character witnesses, there are some really interesting rules about what they can provide. They can provide opinion testimony.
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: They can talk about reputation, specific instances of conduct but we don`t want trials devolving to just go into character. All of that said, anything that they can put out there to say, look, Murray is a good guy or get those jurors debating.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s helpful.
KAVINOKY: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: You want to inspire that kind of debate back in the jury room, because remember, from the defense perspective, all it takes is one juror to mess it up for the prosecution. They need all 12 in order to get a conviction and Dr. Murray only needs one to get distracted by those kinds of things.
BEHAR: Yes.
Now the Jackson family liked one of the witnesses, her name is Ruby Mosley? That`s good for Murray, isn`t it? That the Jackson family came out and they`ve acted like they liked her?
KAVINOKY: Sure. Sure and this is a woman who has been very, very vocal on Dr. Murray`s behalf.
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: And that`s the kind of feel good stuff.
BEHAR: Why do you supposed they liked her so much?
KAVINOKY: Well, she just comes across as being so very authentic. And -- and as Holly points out that`s something that the prosecution is going to try and undo when they have the opportunity in closing argument. But if I`m on Dr. Murray`s side, that`s the kind of feel good stuff they`ll really, really love.
BEHAR: Right.
KAVINOKY: I`ll have more of that stuff out there in the trial.
BEHAR: Yes, the jury saw that?
KAVINOKY: Yes, oh yes.
BEHAR: Yes. But the defense Holly has only two medical experts left to bring out there. Will that be enough?
HUGHES: Well, you know they`ve got Dr. Paul White, who worked with Dr. Steven Shafer, who was the state expert and actually trained him at some point in his career. So they`ve really gone to the head of the class and gotten the best guy they can.
It`s not so much quantity as it is quality. Is Dr. White going to be able to undo what Dr. Shafer did when he sat there and listed 17 points where he believed Dr. Conrad Murray was negligent.
So if their experts bring it and connect with that jury and get the jury to believe that there`s at least reasonable doubt here. Then, two is all they need. One would be all they need if the jury loves them.
BEHAR: I don`t really get it though, because Propofol, we all know now that you need an anesthesiologist in the room and the drug is lethal in a certain way.
KAVINOKY: Right, right.
BEHAR: To be put -- to be used in that kind of setting. So what are they going to say?
KAVINOKY: Yes to make it really simple.
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: The prosecution`s point, is look, Propofol should be used only in a clinical setting, never in a home.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
KAVINOKY: But if it`s going to be in a home, it`s got to be in a setting that`s just like a hospital with all of the monitoring and so forth.
BEHAR: Right which he had none of that?
KAVINOKY: Right but what we`re going to get from the defense is that, even if there was a breach, even if Dr. Murray did breach his -- his professional duties and obligations.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: That -- that wasn`t the proximate cause of Michael Jackson`s demise. And really their strategy here and this is why the character witnesses are so important, is to blur the lines.
Remember, that there`s four of those jurors who have alcoholism or drug addiction touching their lives in some way.
So that the more the defense can blur the lines between doctor responsibility --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
KAVINOKY: -- and patient responsibility and get those jurors debating about whether it was actually Michael`s fault that he -- that he ended up in this condition, That`s all to the benefit --
BEHAR: So if you`re an addict yourself, you might be sympathetic to the patient and said the doctor did it. That`s not good for the defense.
KAVINOKY: Yes, well, they may be saying that Michael did this to himself, his doctor-shopping and his drug-seeking, that`s where they`re going.
BEHAR: I see. Ok. Thank you, guys, very much.
We`ll be back in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next up, President Obama pays a visit to Jay Leno. We`ll have the juicy details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: On "The Tonight Show" last night, President Obama didn`t seem to be that worried about the current crop of GOP candidates. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: Have you been watching the GOP debates?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I`m going to wait until everybody`s voted off the island. Once they narrow it down to one or two, I`ll start paying attention.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: "The Survivor" show, the thought of Ron Paul in a jockstrap.
With me now to talk about this and other pop culture stories in the news are: Nadia G, author of "Nadia G. Bitching Kitchen, Cooking for Trouble"; China Okasi, social commentator and founder of ChinaOkasi.com; and Michelle Collins, comedian and managing editor of bestweekever.tv. Welcome ladies to the show.
MICHELLE COLLINS, MANAGING EDITOR, BESTWEEKEVER.TV: Hi Joy.
BEHAR: Ok. Michelle, do you buy that he wasn`t watching the debates. What do you think?
COLLINS: No. I think he was munching away on some celery watching -- who didn`t watch the debates? I don`t even like politics and I watched the debates, namely for Mitt Romney, what a piece.
BEHAR: Is he attractive? He`s hot.
COLLINS: Mitt Romney? Oh, come on.
BEHAR: Oh, I like -- I love a Mormon. But I also --
COLLINS: My favorite. There`s so much thing going around here.
BEHAR: Well, he and Huntsman are two good-looking Mormons, I`ll tell you right now. No wonder they have 10 wives each these Mormons. But he doesn`t. I`m just kidding, don`t write to me, I know they don`t really do that.
China, do you think he`s pretending not to watch the debate? Why would he do that?
CHINA OKASI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You have to remember September 22nd, the debate in September 22nd. Actually, he gave them some attitude. He was like if you want to be president, you need to call out people who are booing gay soldiers. He was really like forthright and like reprimanding the GOP.
I mean come on, honey. We have the tape. You watch it.
BEHAR: He watches that.
(CROSSTALK)
OKASI: And he`s a pop culture president.
NADIA G, AUTHOR, "BITCHING KITCHEN, COOKING FOR TROUBLE": And it`s all good that he acts cool about it too. I mean he`s the president, he`s allowed to act cool. I`ve like (INAUDIBLE), roll with hair and makeup and sequins.
BEHAR: Yes. That dress is so understated. I need it.
NADIA G: I know. It`s just me. It`s just me.
BEHAR: I need SPF 30.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- addressing the Kardashian controversy, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LENO: You recently said that you didn`t like the girls watching the Kardashians. Have you seen the show?
OBAMA: No, I have not seen the show.
LENO: You`re making a judgment without ever seeing the show.
OBAMA: I -- I am probably a little biased against reality TV partly because, you know, there`s this program on C-Span called Congress that is - -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Do you -- now again, do you think he`s watching the Kardashians?
COLLINS: Listen, I don`t want to say anything. With her ass, he`s watching. I`m sorry, can I be the one? Please.
OKASI: OMG, I`m blushing. All I have to say is even my Grandmama in Africa watches the Kardashians. If she were alive. Let me just say, I have five of them; that`s a whole other show. I might be a Mormon.
I think that somebody who ran the biggest social media campaign of our time, come on, he`s all pop culture. President Obama runs America but the Kardashians run the world.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s right.
We`ll have more pop culture when we come back. Stay right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, country music superstar, Toby Keith. Plus Chaz Bono tells Joy what it was like to be voted off "Dancing with the Stars".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I am back with my lovely panel. Now, Chaz Bono was voted off "Dancing with the Stars" last night, and emotions were running high after he took offense at one of the judge`s comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was like watching a cute little penguin trying to be a big menacing bird of prey.
CHAZ BONO: If you`re an overweight woman in this competition, losing weight, they love you. When you`re an overweight guy trying to do this competition and getting in shape, they penalize you for it and call you a penguin. Who the [ EXPLETIVE DELETED] makes comments about me being cute and cuddly and every -- and ewok with the Princess Leah, and this, like I`m some fat troll dancing with this beautiful woman every week. I`m sick of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So, Michelle, what do you think? First, is he sensitive or not?
COLLINS: A little sensitive. Penguins, adorable, who doesn`t love penguins. You put a penguin in a suit on "Dancing with the Stars," he is going to win the competition, No. 1. No. 2, I think it`s good they`re commenting on it, because obviously women go through this, whether it`s to their face, behind their face or whatever. But this to me says equality. If you think Danny DeVito is on "Dancing With the Stars," wouldn`t they say to him, Danny, you`re looking short or chubby. I mean, he is a literal penguin. He was Penguin in "Batman." You know what I`m saying.
(CROSSTALK)ROSSTALK)
NADYA G: I think it`s totally wrong to hit someone below (inaudible) the beltline.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They don`t do it to women as much on this show.
OKASI: If somebody called me a swan, I wouldn`t be like, oh my God, you`re calling me a bird, and you know what that means in hip-hop, don`t you?
BEHAR: I don`t. What does it mean?
OKASI: That is another show.
BEHAR: What does that mean? Say it.
OKASI: It just means you`re a trifling kind of like chickenhead.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Again, great, I don`t see the problem. (inaudible) chickenhead, where do I sign up.
OKASI: I mean, I love you, Chaz Bono, and I love penguins. I live in New York.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But they never said anything about Ricki Lake`s weight or Kirstie Alley`s weight. They don`t discuss it. Is penguin supposed to mean he`s fat and he`s waddling?
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Did you see Kirstie Alley by the way? She already -- you saw her?
BEHAR: Oh, stop it.
COLLINS: I won`t. OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Weight aside, Chaz was not -- I am going to tell him this tomorrow, he`s coming on the show. He`s not a great dancer, but he is a charming guy and he is endearing, and so that`s what kept him on the show, I guess, right?
OKASI: Absolutely.
BEHAR: And Cher`s appearance didn`t hurt.
NADYA G: And it was also very moving. Everything he said about being a role model for all the transgender, gays and lesbians, I think that was really good. Dancing, not his forte. Role model? Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: As a role model, he made his point. I think he did. But he`s already -- he hurt his hip, he hurt his feet, enough already with that.
COLLINS: I mean, I can barely walk. What`s next.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How about Maksim Chmerkovsky?
COLLINS: I love him.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He is very hot, but he seems to be madly in love with himself, doesn`t he?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He got into a little hot water for losing his temper with the judges. You know? Do you think they should kick this guy to the curb or is it just good TV to see that?
COLLINS: It`s good TV.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: That`s what people tune in for, Jersey Shore, Housewives.
OKASI: You have go to respect your elders, though. When he told, when he said you should quit or whatever. You never tell an old person to quit. They want to keep going.
(CROSSTALK)
OKASI: Maybe you should quit, you`ve been doing this a long time. Don`t tell me when to -- you don`t retire me, boy. That kind of thing. So I think it was a little bit over the top from him. But he`s still sexy, I`ll just say.
BEHAR: A lot of guys who are sexy are also [ EXPLETIVE DELETED]
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Next up, Herman Cain is taking heat for a campaign web ad that features his chief of staff, Mark Block, smoking on camera. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK BLOCK, CAIN CHIEF OF STAFF: We`ve run a campaign like nobody`s ever seen. But then, America`s never seen a candidate like Herman Cain. We need you to get involved, because together, we can do this, we can take this country back.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s so creepy.
(CROSSTALK)
NADYA G: That song is amazing, you got to admit.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Who was that, Lady Gaga? Who was that?
NADYA G: I don`t know.
OKASI: Smoking is something you do after sex, not after a campaign message.
(CROSSTALK)
OKASI: Screw you, whoever is voting for --
BEHAR: Do you think Herman Cain is getting money from the tobacco companies?
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Herman Cain is getting money from pizza companies, tobacco, the guy doesn`t know where to stop. I wish they would have taken it a step further and had the people from the tobacco ads with like no fingers, you know what I`m talking about, those horrible ads.
BEHAR: Where they put the --
COLLINS: The hole in the throat?
(CROSSTALK)
OKASI: He`s the head of the National Restaurant Association. So he`s lobbied against higher tobacco taxes and banning smoking in restaurants.
BEHAR: Meanwhile, do you know that he had both liver cancer and colon cancer, this guy? Hello, get with the program.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Now, Obama smokes, too, you know, but he does it in private. He`s trying to quit, too, I think.
COLLINS: It`s like the Don Draper of smoking. It`s like a little sexier, it`s not like full of pores and that mustache, there is so much going on.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: That was like literally--
BEHAR: He was not smoking. Only his campaign manager was smoking. It`s like, OK, let him take the hit.
COLLINS: It shows that he gives his employees breaks, I like that. Every few hours, they can go downstairs.
BEHAR: What do you think of the shot of Herman at the end? Can we just show that again? It`s like a still shot of Herman at the end. Look how creepy that is. What does that say to you?
OKASI: Actually, it puts him at the background.
(CROSSTALK)
OKASI: I`m glad you brought up Obama, because he`s sort of in the closet and this one isn`t. So it`s like don`t ask, don`t smoke. It`s like a new law.
BEHAR: Can I just say though that he`s leading in the polls?
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Herman Cain. He makes a great pizza. We live in America, Joy. Get with it.
BEHAR: Romney only 21 percent, Cain at 25, Perry at 6 percent. Thank you. OK, moving on, Lindsay Lohan is reportedly posing nude for "Playboy" for nearly $1 million. Do you think she`ll be wearing an electronic ankle bracelet in the picture? Because you know--
COLLINS: I think it`s very convenient. This way she doesn`t really even have to put her clothes on before getting a cavity search from her parole officer. You know what I`m saying? She can go right from the shoot, get searched.
BEHAR: But you know, she`s done nudity. She`s done topless.
OKASI: She should do bleaching on the teeth. I think that--
(CROSSTALK)
OKASI: The teeth are quite atrocious. Do you have that?
COLLINS: The teeth are almost too sad for me. I can`t explain that. The teeth kill me. This is like-
BEHAR: What`s the teeth--
COLLINS: This is like--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She has stuff stuck in there. What happened to her teeth and why is everybody focusing on her teeth?
COLLINS: Well, I mean, it looks to me like she`s been smoking something. I think that maybe she`s been hanging out with Herman Cain a little bit.
NADYA G: But you know, with everything that Lindsay Lohan has been through and her family, like shooting for "Playboy," we`re just lucky she`s not like shooting up random people in the street, you know. You know, like big deal, she`s shooting for Playboy.
BEHAR: And a million bucks is nothing to sneeze at.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Her mother accompanied her to the Playboy shoot. Isn`t that charming?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Bring your mother to work day.
And her mother was also shopping around a tell-all and her father has been arrested again. I read he got into a domestic dispute.
COLLINS: In Tampa where they all happen.
BEHAR: That happened in Tampa?
COLLINS: Everything like that happens in Tampa, yes.
BEHAR: So there`s really a reason why she turned out the way she did. These are not exactly the mother and father of the year.
COLLINS: Is she too old for the state to intervene? I mean, this poor girl literally--
BEHAR: She`s too old. Yes.
COLLINS: It`s a shame.
BEHAR: But what about the fact that she`s going full frontal now? That was interesting. I mean, for a million bucks, would you go full frontal?
OKASI: Call my publicist. I don`t know.
(CROSSTALK)
OKASI: It`s a recession, what are you going to do?
BEHAR: You know what her community service was? She had to show up at a morgue, and she reported for duty at the morgue today full 20 minutes early, because the dead don`t like to be kept waiting, you know.
COLLINS: They sure don`t.
BEHAR: They get very antsy if they have to wait.
COLLINS: I would hate to have my body -- I would rather donate it to science than have Lindsay Lohan come in and put a tag on my toe and check in on things.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- community service at the morgue, I don`t understand--
(CROSSTALK)
NADYA G: -- to scare her, that she`s going to die from a drug overdose or something like this, to see the repercussions of having teeth like that.
BEHAR: OK, all right, finally, a new study found that men are funnier than women, but only by a slight margin of one point. I think this study was done by the same guy who said size doesn`t matter, don`t you? You`re a comic, Michelle, what do you say to that?
COLLINS: Listen, you know, it`s a very hard thing to say. I obviously don`t agree. I think there are certain jokes men might be able to do better, like fart jokes. I think they might be better at those type things.
BEHAR: They`re good with masturbation material.
COLLINS: They love a jay-off joke. They`ll jay off for the next three hours. They don`t care. Yes. Can I say that? It`s HLN, right?
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: They will jay-off all day. But is it true? I have no idea, I honestly don`t think it`s true.
BEHAR: I don`t know.
NADYA G: These numbers, they`re crazy, it`s by 0.11 percent. That`s what the study shows, 0.11. So we all know that men are known for taking tiny things and making them a lot bigger in their heads. So in terms of men being funnier by 0.11 percent, listen, you`re a hilarious lady, I grew up watching Carol Burnett, Betty White and "The Golden Girls," Chelsea Handler is awesome. Like there are so many hilarious women out there.
BEHAR: Joan Rivers.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And back in the day, Tony Fields (ph), Phyllis Diller. There are so many of us.
OKASI: And I`m sorry we don`t have time to be funny. We`re too busy having your babies, taking your crap and pretending to be stupid instead of running for president.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, thank you guys very much. And tomorrow, be sure to tune in when I interviewed Chaz Bono about getting kicked off "Dancing with the Stars." We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The talented Toni Braxton has sold 60 million albums, she`s won six Grammies and her show, "Braxton Family Values" has become the number one reality show in WeTV`s history. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As long as Toni Braxton is going to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s just be real honest, since Toni decided not to do it. And I`m ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that what I said?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said you`re not doing it.
(CROSSTALK)ROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You kept on saying it`s Toni`s fault and Toni is saying it`s Kamal`s (ph) fault. I`m so confused. For real, for real, they`d better get this bow (ph) together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that makes more sense for me to go feature (ph) because you guys don`t want to do it on my record, you don`t want to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is the talented Toni Braxton. OK, Toni, listen ...
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: There`s five of you and a brother, yes?
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: You`re like the Kardashians in a way, right?
BRAXTON: Kind of like the black Kardashians.
BEHAR: The black Kardashians.
BRAXTON: Yeah, that`s OK.
BEHAR: Well, they`re kind of like the black Kardashians. You know -- it`s great. But you`re the most famous of al the siblings.
BRAXTON: To date. To date.
BEHAR: Today and tomorrow ...
BRAXTON: Do you think ...
BEHAR: ... and yesterday. I mean, doesn`t that cause a little friction, shall I say, with your sisters?
BRAXTON: You know, sometimes, I should say in the past, it has. I can`t deny it. And my sisters are talented, especially my younger sister, Tamar. She has a wonderful beautiful voice.
BEHAR: Oh, yeah, Tamar.
BRAXTON: And she`s been with me my whole career, I kind of straddled her on my back and took her to everything with me. So she`s like when is my chance, when is my time going to happen. So, she`s eager.
BEHAR: She is. And I think I remember ...
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: ... seeing her back before you were last time.
BRAXTON: Yeah.
BEHAR: And she wanted to be a star.
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: So, what`s going on? Is it taking so long and how are you helping the girl before she has a nervous breakdown?
BRAXTON: I know. I know. I like to think that I am helping her but I think she`s just -- she wants it now. When is it going to be my time? She feels as though she`s in my shadow, like I`m always going to be Toni Braxton`s little sister.
BEHAR: I know.
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: But she has a different name.
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: What is her full name?
BRAXTON: Tamar Esteen (ph) Braxton.
BEHAR: Esteen?
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: She needs to drop the Braxton maybe.
BRAXTON: Maybe Tamar -- tell her that.
BEHAR: Yeah, or just Tamar, like Madonna and Cher.
BRAXTON: I agree.
BEHAR: OK. Now, you know, we`ve been talking a lot about the Michael Jackson trial this week.
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: Because Conrad Murray is on trial, and everything, and -- they really basically this week the defense is basically saying that, you know, because Michael was an addict and he`d had to sleep, it really was his fault in a way. What do you make of that?
BRAXTON: I think it was -- he has to take the blame because he took medications.
BEHAR: Michael?
BRAXTON: Michael. That he didn`t really need. But I think the doctor is also to blame, too, because he should know not to administer such medications ...
BEHAR: Yes.
BRAXTON: ... under the way he was giving it to him.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRAXTON: Should have had a nurse there, he should have been watched 24-7. The reason I know this, because a family member of mine right now is in intensive care, ICU, on that medication ...
BEHAR: Yes.
BRAXTON: ... and he is monitored.
BEHAR: Propofol?
BRAXTON: Right now. Right now. He`s breathing through a breathing tube ...
BEHAR: Oh, a respirator.
BRAXTON: Respirator, yeah. And he is monitored about three or four nurses ...
BEHAR: Exactly.
BRAXTON: ... three or four doctors - they come back and forth in there, so I kind of understand it a little better.
BEHAR: You would think that the doctor would know that?
BRAXTON: I would think he would get that and go, wait a minute, I`m going to go to the bathroom or wherever he went for 20 minutes, or whatever, he should have had a nurse ...
BEHAR: I know.
BRAXTON: Should have spent that extra $40,000 of his income to bring a nurse in. Or ask for that in contract.
BEHAR: Right. Right. He also had a lot of money problems, Michael Jackson.
BRAXTON: Don`t we all.
BEHAR: Yeah, I know you can relate for that ...
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean where are you at with that?
BRAXTON: I`m good!
BEHAR: You are good?
BRAXTON: My bankruptcy is declared. So, it`s over, that part is behind me.
BEHAR: You`re not bankrupt anymore?
BRAXTON: No.
BEHAR: So, you can open up a Christmas club account now?
BRAXTON: I could. I could. But the greatest thing is I would love to tour, but my body is not 100 percent ready to go on a long tour yet because of the lupus. But I`m feeling good, so --
(CROSSTALK)ROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Oh, lupus. We`ll get to that in a minute.
BRAXTON: Lupus, yes.
BEHAR: But that, too. But just for my own edification ...
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: Michael, didn`t he own the Beatles catalog?
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: So, how come he had money problems? That must have been, you know, a cash cow.
BRAXTON: You know what, sometimes we may not know all the details, sometimes the press enhance things.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRAXTON: So, perhaps he got advancements on it, and you have to recoup those advancements, that`s what people don`t understand a lot of times.
BEHAR: I see. Yes.
BRAXTON: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes, you did reveal that you had lupus last year. How is that now? That`s an immune deficiency disorder. What is that? Yes.
BRAXTON: For me, auto meaning self. I`m allergic to myself, in a sense.
BEHAR: You`re allergic to yourself?
BRAXTON: To myself, yes.
BEHAR: My body fights everything good and bad, even if you`re a good thing, it kills it off. So eventually over time, it diminishes for me, my type of lupus, my organs. And it loves my heart, which is ironic with the song "Unbreak my Heart," but it loves my heart and a little bit of my brain. Just a little bit.
BEHAR: What do you mean it loves your brain or your heart? What does that mean?
BRAXTON: Well, vasculitis, it becomes inflamed. I`ve had periocarditis, I`ve had micro-vascular angina and it affects my micro- vascular arteries.
BEHAR: You have to take ...
BRAXTON: Medication.
BEHAR: Cortisone?
BRAXTON: I hate taking all the other ...
(CROSSTALK)ROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Why not? It makes me puffy?
BRAXTON: It makes me puffy, so if you see me on the show sometimes, and I`m -- it`s because of that, and also it changes my mood and makes me a little aggravated and agitated.
BEHAR: It does?
BRAXTON: Yes. I want to kill people. Like really. That`s not good.
BEHAR: Yeah, that`s not good at all.
BRAXTON: But today is a good day. I mean I take Plaquenil and my other medications, which is very helpful, but ...
BEHAR: You`re such a young girl to have to be putting yourself through all this.
BRAXTON: Yeah, but I`m here and I`m healthy. I mean not as healthy as I`d like to be. But I try to stay strong for my kids.
BEHAR: What do you do when you feel puffy -- look puffy and you have to go on stage or TV, even worse?
TB : Just puffy on TV and on stage, I have great makeup artists and cut me up and slenderize (ph) with, you know, makeup.
BEHAR: Yeah, but you are a very pretty girl.
BRAXTON: You know, a little makeup, a little paint make you are what you ain`t. So ...
BEHAR: That`s -- my mother used to say that. That`s good. OK, we`re going to have more with Toni Braxton in just a minute. So stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the lovely Toni Braxton. So, what do you want to talk to me now?
BRAXTON: You know, I`m little upset with you.
BEHAR: Why?
BRAXTON: We both share the same birthday.
BEHAR: October 7.
BRAXTON: Seven. And I tweeted you, and you didn`t respond.
BEHAR: Heads will roll!
BRAXTON: Happy belated birthday!
BEHAR: Thank you! I was born in 1970, when were you born?
BRAXTON: Oh, `67.
(CROSSTALK)ROSSTALK)
BEHAR: `82 ?
BRAXTON: Exactly.
BEHAR: All right. You know, Lindsay Lohan is going to be posing nude for "Playboy", she`s going to ...
BRAXTON: She--
BEHAR: A million dollars, I understand.
BRAXTON: I`m not posing.
BEHAR: What about you?
BRAXTON: I thought about it.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRAXTON: I really did contemplate it, but I -- because of my kids, and they`re really are going through their booby stage, and I don`t want this, I saw your mom!
BEHAR: But for a million bucks, that would get you right out of the hole, Tony.
BRAXTON: It was -- my fee was pretty good. I was pretty close to that, I was pretty excited about it.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRAXTON: I was going to donate my first -- first I was going to do Autism Speaks, so they said you can`t do it, it`s for kids. So maybe a little bit -- but -- what do you--
(CROSSTALK)ROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Pose nude for autism?
BRAXTON: I was going to give the proceeds to autism.
BEHAR: Yeah.
BRAXTON: And this is for kids. I mean most kids have autism. They grow up to be adults, but --
BEHAR: I know, but you have an autistic child, right?
BRAXTON: Yes, my kid is autistic and that wouldn`t --
BEHAR: How is -- she -- or a boy, him?
BRAXTON: He`s a boy.
BEHAR: How is he doing?
BRAXTON: He is doing good. We just relocated to L.A., a little challenging,
BEHAR: Why?
BRAXTON: Because I`m starting over. Getting acclimated with new schools, new teachers.
BEHAR: How old is he?
BRAXTON: He `s eight.
BEHAR: Eight. The other boy is -- doesn`t have this?
BRAXTON: Yeah, he doesn`t have it.
BEHAR: That`s a tough thing.
BRAXTON: Very tough.
BEHAR: You have a lot of (inaudible) for young girl.
BRAXTON: But you know what? I keep saying, I`m here. Because if I start thinking and feeling sorry for myself, it will cause me to have a flare and be ill, so I try to be as positive as I can.
BEHAR: You`re very talented, you`re very pretty, so you can`t win everything, I guess.
BRAXTON: There you go. There you go.
BEHAR: And the other thing is, you`re separated from your husband in 2009 and you keep talking about him on the show constantly.
BRAXTON: You know what? Because we were really trying to work out--
BEHAR: Are you dating him?
BRAXTON: We were dating, and I don`t want to give everything away through this -- about the show. We were really trying to work it out, that`s all I can say. But I have been dating.
BEHAR: Other men?
BRAXTON: I`d been playing in the snow, a little bit.
BEHAR: Oh, really? The white boys.
So, do you prefer the snow or the coal?
BRAXTON: Right? Well, brown sugar is delicious always. You know, the sweetest (ph) things (ph). But I have to say the snow makes great snowballs.
BEHAR: Really?
BRAXTON: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)ROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The Kardashians only liked the African-American boys.
BRAXTON: Yeah, they really like those little brown sugars.
BEHAR: They love the brown sugar over there, those girls.
BRAXTON: They do. And I`m looking at the snowflakes.
BEHAR: Yeah. And it`s funny, all of them same thing.
BRAXTON: Yeah, that`s true.
BEHAR: Yeah, it`s like a genetic thing.
BRAXTON: I get why they get like that, but I`m kind of getting the other side as well.
BEHAR: So you`ve tried both.
BRAXTON: Newly. Trying.
BEHAR: So, what about that once you go black, you never go back, is it true or isn`t it?
BRAXTON: I like, well, as an African-American, I like to think there`s a lot of truth in that. I`m hoping the snowflake I`m with will feel that way.
BEHAR: OK. Merry Christmas to you! Season two of "Braxton Family Values" premieres on November 10th at 9:00 p.m. on WeTV. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
