Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Lindsay Lohan Back to Jail; Kim and Kris: The Divorce; Political Analysts Debate Occupy Wall Street; Former Athlete Discusses Having Type 2 Diabetes
Aired November 02, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Lindsay Lohan is going back to jail after being given a second chance following her probation violation.
Dennis Rodman who`s had his own problems with addiction and run-ins with the law weighs in on why some stars can`t steer clear of the justice system.
Then does Justin Bieber have an illegitimate child? He says no, but a 20-year-old woman claims the teen idol is the father of her newborn. Joy will have the details.
Plus the Herman Cain sexual harassment saga takes another wild turn. A lawyer for one of the accuser threatens to speak out. Political insider Ben Stein will give his take.
That and more start right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Lindsay Lohan is going to jail, this time for 30 days after a judge sentenced the actress to the jail time plus community service and therapy.
Here to discuss these developments are Adrianna Costa, correspondent for Extra; Dennis Rodman, former NBA star and member of the Basketball Hall of Fame; and Lisa Bloom, author of "Think" and founding partner of thebloomfirm.com.
Ok. Adrianna, the judge originally sentenced Lindsay to 300 days in jail. So what happened to that? 300.
ADRIANNA COSTA, CORRESPONDENT, EXTRA: So she`s going -- yes I know, it was 300. And when we heard that there was sort of like a gasp in the courtroom today. And then she said "Ok, well, you have to go next week. Turn yourself in and you do 30 days of jail first and then after that, then she`s to meet with her probation officer and do her court-mandated community service. And if she does it in the allotted amount of time well then, the jail sentence just keeps getting pushed back and back and back and back. And if by March 29th, she does all her community service, well then, she`s off the hook completely. So another slap on the wrist.
BEHAR: Really? Ok. So Lisa, instead of more jail time she has to do 50 days at the morgue and 18 days of therapy by March. Explain why the judge would be so generous and nice and give her this gift, Lisa?
LISA BLOOM, CO-FOUNDER, THEBLOOMFIRM.COM: Well, because we all know here in Los Angeles that the jails are so overcrowded and there`s a consent decree in effect so that people only serve about 20 percent of their sentence if they`re female and non-violent offenders as Lindsay Lohan is.
So saying -- you know, for the judge to say, I`m going to throw the book at you. I`m going to send you to jail, it`s meaningless. And Lindsay has so much experience going in and out of jail very quickly, she knows that. Better to have her do community service where we can actually get some benefit from her, you know, and use of her time rather than going to jail where we all pay for it.
BEHAR: Ok. Adrianna, you were in the courtroom today. How did she seem to deal with all of this? Is she ok with all of it? She must be happy.
COSTA: You know, I have to tell you -- yes. I mean they seem (INAUDIBLE). And she walked in, she seems, you know, prepped and kind of - - she knew what she was going to do. She knew she violated her probation. So what she did is went in and looked kind of serious. But then there were moments of levity in the courthouse.
Shawn Chapman Holley said to the court, what happens if Lindsay finishes her probation or hours sooner and the whole court laughed including Lindsay, like that`s obviously not going to happen. So there were moments of levity. She looked really put together, you know, not bouncing around like she has in the past. Very conservative in her dress, so I thought she did a pretty good job.
BEHAR: Maybe she`s growing up a little bit, you know.
COSTA: Perhaps.
BEHAR: Dennis -- let me talk to you Dennis. You`ve had some run-ins with the law and you`ve had issues -- with addiction.
DENNIS RODMAN, BASKETBALL HALL OF FAMER: You think so?
BEHAR: So, you know, I mean this girl is under the glass fishbowl like that and you were. What is it like having the public watch you while you go through all this personal stuff -- hilarious, I guess, huh?
RODMAN: Well, you know, you got to pay the price. Right. Yes.
BEHAR: I mean is it tough on you because it`s so public? Is it easier if you were not a public figure, you know?
RODMAN: It`s not that difficult -- a lot of people expect me to do crazy things, and stuff like that. Dennis did this, Dennis did that. But most of the time you`ll ever see Dennis Rodman, you know, doing some great stuff -- I had the same thing with the probation and stuff like and had to do community service and that stuff. But I did mine and hey, I`m a free man.
BEHAR: You sure are.
Let`s listen to what the judge said to Lindsay about where she will do her community service.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE STEPHANIE SAUNTER, PRESIDED OVER LINDSAY LOHAN CASE: Although the Downtown Women`s Center is willing to take you back, I`m not going to put them through that again. I looked into another group called the Good Shepherd`s Center for Homeless Women. They refused to take you because they said you`re a bad example for the women who are trying to get their lives in order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. The homeless shelter doesn`t want her. How bad is that? That the only place that wants Lindsay is the morgue. Lisa, Dennis, Adrianna, anybody?
BLOOM: You know, I think that`s really sad. It`s true, isn`t it? She`s not a good example for anybody right now. Let her work at the morgue. Let her work somewhere where she can make a contribution.
And by the way, Joy, there are a lot of people who aren`t convicted felons, who volunteer out of the goodness of their heart. There are a lot of celebrities who volunteer at places out of the goodness of their heart.
You know, Lindsay`s court-ordered to do it and she still doesn`t do it. It shows how far she has to go.
BEHAR: Well, you know what, the dead are not judgmental. That`s all I have to say.
Dennis do you think this will --
COSTA: She has her work cut out for her.
BEHAR: She does.
Dennis, do you think this will finally put Lindsay on the straight and narrow in your experience and from your perspective, do you think?
RODMAN: It`s amazing that you see Lindsay Lohan, she`s only what, 24, 25 years old. And it`s amazing the fact that she has gotten so many breaks. Most people would be in jail for a year, two years and stuff like that. When you have these high-priced attorneys and stuff like that you can get off on certain things. Not because the jail is overcrowded, no, she`s a public figure, she has a whole lot of life to live.
My God, the morgue, come on. My God, the morgue, she`s got to be the prettiest young girl at the morgue.
BEHAR: I know. Maybe I should go there and do my show. I would kill.
Ok. So let`s turn to another big juicy tabloid story, the Kim Kardashian divorce. Listen to what Kim said to the Australian TV station network, Number 10.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY STAR: I married for love. Anyone that would, you know, get married for a TV show it`s just, you know, ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So do you all think she married for love? Let`s start with Adrianna.
COSTA: Oh, my gosh, I don`t know if I see the world through rose- colored glasses still but I do. I think she got -- Dennis is laughing at me. I think --
BEHAR: We`ll get to you in a minute, Dennis.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTA: I thought this started happening way too fast for her. She had the six month courtship. And we have Britney (INAUDIBLE), one of our very good friends on our show saying that she absolutely got married for love and even Britney was surprised when she heard of the divorce.
So I do think she just got wrapped up in the moment and having E! have this big special on the wedding. So that was my take.
BEHAR: Right. Dennis, what do you think?
RODMAN: You know, I have to say something crazy. Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. Wait a minute, hold. I mean this woman is sitting there saying "I got wrapped up in all the hype and hoopla and stuff like that." You married a guy that pretty much no one knows about in the NBA. I don`t know if he had a big unit or he`s just good in bed, I don`t get it.
Wow, Kim, I like the girl, Kim. She`s a beautiful women, she has a beautiful family. But the deal is -- who is Kim Kardashian? Who is she? She has this elaborate wedding; it would cost $10 million, $15 million. I don`t know how the public, amazing if you`re a superstar, just famous like Madonna and people in the news for years and years. But I mean, my gosh, she got all these gifts, all this money, the TV hype and stuff like that.
I did the same thing with me and Carmen. When me and Carmen got married because you know, we were in love but the deal is it didn`t work because we weren`t ready for the marriage. It was more like a boyfriend- girlfriend thing.
BEHAR: You and Carmen Electra. How long were you married to Carmen?
RODMAN: Maybe, I don`t know, 60, 70 day, if that.
BEHAR: So you were married even less time than the Kardashian girl. You were married in the Little Chapel of Flowers in Vegas.
RODMAN: That`s right.
BEHAR: So you got caught up in the hoopla and romance of it also. You`re not any different.
RODMAN: Well, the deal was, with Carmen, she was pretty much working in MTV and stuff like that. I was in the NBA with the Chicago Bulls and stuff like that. And Carmen always wanted to be famous. And I always supported whatever she wanted to do and stuff like that. Once we got divorced, we started dating again. And it was all dating and then getting married, because we just rushed through it.
You know, my love life is like an open book. I don`t really care what happens. I can date a whole bunch of girls, and I have. It doesn`t really matter, so.
BEHAR: I mean so, she wanted to be famous and that was the motivation. Maybe that`s --
COSTA: She`s already famous.
BEHAR: That was like a ding-a-ling-a-ling, maybe you shouldn`t marry someone who`s just marrying you because she wants to be famous.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTA: One thing I can tell you.
BEHAR: Go ahead. Finish up, Adrianna.
COSTA: One thing I can tell you is I interviewed Kim Kardashian about a week ago in Las Vegas on her 31st birthday and when she was still with Kris and the whole family. And I asked her Kim, what`s the deal? If you had to do it over again, would you do a big wedding or something smaller. Seriously, just elope. I got so caught up in all of it. It went by so fast. It was months of planning, I forgot what it was all really about.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks everybody.
For much more on this be sure to watch my interview with Kim`s mom, Kris Jenner tomorrow night.
And here`s a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRIS JENNER, MOTHER OF Kim KARDASHIAN: What`s important to me is that Kim is ok and that she`s happy. And that she`s going to get through this. And as I told her and I said to you the other, you know, she`s not the first person to go through a divorce, she`s not going to be the last. Yes, this is a horrible time but she had a very difficult decision to make --
BEHAR: Yes.
JENNER: It`s for me to stand by her. Who am I to judge her or tell her what she should and shouldn`t do?
BEHAR: Right.
JENNER: This is what she felt was necessary right now, and I just want her to be ok.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In some shocking pop news, Justin Bieber is being sued by a woman who says he is the father of her love child. I`m not one to judge but I don`t think his voice has changed yet.
Here to discuss this and more are Rob Shuter, the naughty and nice columnist for the "Huffington Post"; comedian Caroline Rhea, host of "Don`t Tell the Bride" on the OWN Network; and Mike Golic, one-half of ESPN`s "Mike & Mike in the Morning".
Ok you guys, first of all let me show you, we have a picture of the baby. I`d like you to see it. There he is. Does he look like him or not? All right, so -- so that`s a joke. Ok.
So what do you think? A 20-year-old woman said she meet Bieber last year and had his baby. He was, I believe, how old is he now?
ROB SHUTER, THE HUFFINGTON POST: He`s 17. I think he`s -- 16 yes.
BEHAR: So he was only 16.
SHUTER: Yes.
BEHAR: Can we say statutory rape if it`s true.
MIKE GOLIC, ESPN`S "MIKE AND MIKE IN THE MORNING": Well, that`s what they`re going to say to her.
BEHAR: No, to him -- to her, right.
GOLIC: And to her yes.
CAROLINE RHEA, COMEDIENNE: In California, it`s 15.
BEHAR: Is it really?
RHEA: No, no it`s yes.
SHUTER: How do you know?
RHEA: I don`t know what I know. It`s so creepy the whole story. I don`t even want to think he`s having sex ever.
BEHAR: The details in the lawsuit say, that Justin told her he was a virgin and their encounter was brief -- TMI. So what do you say? What do you say?
SHUTER: They -- I don`t know about this story. The story is on the cover of "Star" magazine. They clearly had to vet this through their lawyers before they could publish it. So maybe these magazines might exaggerate a little bit but to out-right tell a lie is something that I don`t believe they can do. There must be something to this.
BEHAR: What do you think?
RHEA: People lie in Hollywood? That`s insane.
SHUTER: No.
BEHAR: Caroline what do you think? Do you think it`s true?
RHEA: I don`t even want to think about him having sex with anybody, it`s just the creepiest thing to me. He`s just -- like, first of all why do we have to know it was 30 seconds. Why is that detail important? 30 seconds?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The interesting thing is you can get pregnant in 30 seconds. Attention teenagers. You need to know this.
GOLIC: I don`t always say it won`t happen to them. Listen we`re going to find out with a cheek swab. I guess real quick about what`s going to go on here.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLIC: But think about it, 16 years old, it was brief and supposedly in a bathroom. Now, if you`re a 16-year-old boy, do you care where -- I mean seriously, when he you`re 16 at that age, you`re just happy to be around, I guess.
BEHAR: She says that she asked him to use a condom and he wouldn`t.
RHEA: Really?
SHUTER: She went into a lot of details. This girl sat down, took photographs, really told her side of the story here. So unless she`s completely delusional, this isn`t sources, this is her on the record. So this woman is either telling the truth or really, really nuts.
BEHAR: Ok his side, anyway, is calling it a malicious and defamatory lawsuit and that it has no bearing on the truth whatsoever.
RHEA: What if she said it was the best sex of her life and it took hours? You know what I mean?
GOLIC: Oh listen, everybody would be trying to interview him even more about that.
BEHAR: But in the music world, this could help his street cred to kids, you know what I`m saying.
GOLIC: Not that quick like that, no.
BEHAR: Just remember 30 seconds ok.
This one -- story is a little confusing folks. Try to follow along with me. Ok number one, there is an American model I`ve never heard of named Vanessa Hessler (ph). Have you ever heard of her?
SHUTER: I`ve never heard of her talked about.
BEHAR: Ok, number two she lost her job on German TV because she told an Italian magazine about her 4-year-long affair Moammar Gadhafi`s son Mutassim, ok. Now, they fired her ok, for saying that she thought that the Gadhafi`s were a normal family, kind of like the Mansons.
GOLIC: If there was ever a time for no comment, this was it. You know listen it`s great for shows like this but for your career, obviously, it`s zip it, shut-up and no comment.
I mean, you`re right. I mean, it`s like making a comment about the Manson, saying, yes, outside of them being just a little off, I think they`re a pretty cool family. I mean seriously.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
SHUTER: The reason this lady -- the young lady is so successful, is because we don`t know who she is. She`s gone back to the old days of modeling before the Naomi Campbell and there were just generic beautiful faces and they could sell your clothes and your advertising, your products but their faces without having that baggage of their personalities. So what she`s --
BEHAR: What personalities, what baggage?
SHUTER: There isn`t much. But what she has done is given herself a very definable identity.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHUTER: And unfortunately she lied about the Gadhafi`s and not the Clooneys (ph).
BEHAR: Exactly.
RHEA: She`s also -- she`s that`s adorable, who was her last boyfriend? Idi Amin? His great grandfather. That`s outside normal?
BEHAR: Ok but still another story, Scarlett Johansson made news recently when her nude Twitter pictures were hacked and released to the public. In "Vanity Fair," article she admitted taking the pictures and she joked -- she joked, "I know my best angles". I do, I know mine also; that`s why I like them to go to Cleveland when shooting me. So what about that?
Mike, what`s your best angle?
GOLIC: My best angle?
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLIC: Is the camera being off. I can`t even fathom taking a nude picture of myself on a cell phone. Who does that? Who the -- and then tries to say, oh I only sent it to my husband. It doesn`t work that way in the world today. Those pictures will be everywhere. And unless there is some trick photography involved or some -- some photo shopping, it isn`t happening for me.
BEHAR: Well, Caroline, have you ever posed nude for anybody? Have you ever --
RHEA: Joy, first of all, in a horror film. Second of all, Twitter and the W is silent. I have a phone when I press "call waiting" I take a picture of myself by mistake. It`s like I have 700 pictures of me like this.
The idea -- but I used to have a trainer in Los Angeles, and she would come in, and was like oh my God, do you want to see my boyfriend`s -- what`s the --
GOLIC: Junk would be the --
RHEA: Junk, right. And I was like, no, no I don`t.
And she once said, because you got to see it. And I`m telling you it was so enormous she had to scroll.
BEHAR: Oh, my God.
RHEA: I said you need (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waiting. You really do.
BEHAR: But the -- the thing that fascinates me Rob --
RHEA: (INAUDIBLE). Is he hilarious? It`s just like the big smile and the meanest face.
BEHAR: He`s a married man now.
RHEA: Ok, all right, good.
BEHAR: But you know. The thing that gets me about these people, is why not just take the pictures on the date with you? Why do you have to send it electronically. That`s where you`re asking for trouble. If you want your boyfriend to see you naked, bring the picture or show him in the room.
RHEA: Who wants this --
GOLIC: Why not just be naked in front of him?
RHEA: I`m shooting in front of street lights and the lunar eclipse.
(CROSSTALK)
RHEA: Who`s photographing this?
BEHAR: Caroline, you know my motto, for a man to see me naked, I have to be in his will.
We`ll have more pop culture when we return.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a visit from Kim Kardashian`s mom, Kris Jenner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Kim Kardashian announced she was getting divorced after 72 days of marriage. Quite frankly, I don`t know what took her so long. But here`s my question to you Mike, because You`re in the sports business. There are rumors that Kim and her family will have Kris Humphries blacklisted from scoring big endorsements, is that true?
GOLIC: Well, let me put it this way. If they stayed married, and whatever that marriage was, he probably would have gotten some endorsements. But he`s not -- he wasn`t a well-known basketball player to begin with. It`s not like he had endorsement offers knocking on his door anyway.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLIC: And now that he`s out of the Kardashian clan, I don`t see that was going to happening anyway. So I don`t think he was ever going to be a real threat, anyway, even if they want to try and black ball him.
BEHAR: But Rob, as the divorced spouse of Kim, that sort of gives him more cache doesn`t it?
SHUTER: It gives him a little bit of time. It`s not going to get him a five-year career or the sort of career Kim`s going to have here. But if he`s going to make any money from this, he should do it now and probably the best way to make money is not through an endorsement but sit down and get paid to tell his side of the story.
GOLIC: Come out with the dirt. Isn`t that what everybody does? Isn`t that what you do?
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: That`s how you`re going to make some money.
BEHAR: That`s so evil.
Caroline, do you think that she could return the gifts?
RHEA: I would be so impressed if I could be married for seven days. I`m not going to judge her on that on. I couldn`t do it for seven hours. Go take everything back. I think she should totally give back the gifts. She gave back the groom, why doesn`t she give back the gifts?
BEHAR: You know, they claim -- Kris Jenner, I will be interviewing her when she was on "The View". They said that they did not -- she said they didn`t make any real money, no profit on the wedding.
SHUTER: That`s hard to believe.
GOLIC: Yes.
SHUTER: What I do believe here is I don`t think it was a scam. And let me tell you why. This family is so smart that if this was a business arrangement, they would still be married and they`d say to him, you live (INAUDIBLE); in a year`s time we will get a divorce.
BEHAR: That`s an interesting point of view.
SHUTER: They didn`t do that. And that`s what tells me this was real. This is a terrible decision for Kim to make business-wise, the backlash is very strong.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHUTER: So I actually think she`s being real --
GOLIC: But I think what will happen, you look at the publicity, most people say this is a private matter. We would appreciate everybody giving us our space and leave us alone. I think they`re going to say, this is a private matter and we hope to hold as many press conferences as we can to talk about it and use it to their advantage.
(CROSSTALK)
RHEA: You all watched her on television.
GOLIC: Exactly right. They don`t want anything private.
BEHAR: They live on TV and they`re fine with that, the Kardashians. I admire their business acumen. Those people know what they`re doing.
GOLIC: Someone`s paying them.
BEHAR: But when Kim made a sex tape, her numbers went up. So maybe this is going to help her. There`s no such thing as bad publicity, right?
SHUTER: I think that`s right. I think --
RHEA: We made a sex tape?
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: I think we forgive celebrities for divorces, for sex tape, for different bad behavior, what we don`t forgive is if they dupe us. What we find very hard to forgive if there`s some sort of joke and we`re not in on the joke.
BEHAR: That`s what it looks like.
SHUTER: And that`s what`s going to really hurt Kim here.
BEHAR: It`s interesting what you said that if it really was a scam, she would have stuck it out.
SHUTER: Yes. She would have lived somewhere else and would have walked down the Red Carpet every six weeks together like may some couples in Hollywood do.
BEHAR: Like who? Name one.
SHUTER: Caroline, I have no idea what I`m talking about.
BEHAR: Name one.
RHEA: I do.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Who?
RHEA: I have no idea. I watch "Dora the Explorer" all the time.
(CROSSTALK)
RHEA: -- with Diego -- that`s all I know.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you very much.
You can catch Caroline this weekend at Zany`s Comedy Club in Nashville, Tennessee. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOY BEHAR: As one of the women who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment allegedly wants to speak out, Cain himself is starting to lash out. Watch this exchange with a reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me say one thing. I`m here with these doctors and that`s what I`m going to talk about. So don`t even bother asking me all these other questions that you all are curious about, OK? Don`t even bother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a good question, though.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you concerned about the fact these women do want to come forward. Are you concerned about --
CAIN: What did I say? Excuse me. Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It looks like Cain`s gone from nine-nine-nine to whine, whine, whine. Joining me to discuss this is Ben Stein, actor, economist, lawyer, and the author of "What Would Ben Stein Do?" and Roland Martin, CNN political analyst extraordinaire.
Roland, is the pressure getting to Cain?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It`s clear it`s getting to him. In fact it`s very interesting how all of a sudden 24 hours has totally changed this story. Conservatives were out saying this is liberal media attacking him. Then you have these crazy mouthpieces like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter saying it`s because he`s black.
Now Herman Cain is saying that a former staffer who worked for his 2004 senatorial campaign is the one leaking the information. If that staffer was cool working for a black guy in 2004, now how all of a sudden it`s race? They look absolutely nuts with all these conspiracy theories. And then now a former restaurant worker who now works for Perry`s campaign, a pollster, said he saw him make inappropriate comments. A conservative radio talk show host in Iowa said Herman Cain made inappropriate comments. It looks like the Republicans are doing Herman Cain in.
BEHAR: I always said that, Ben. I said if anybody leaks this, it`s from the Republican side because the Democrats had no truck in this business right now. If they were going to leak like, they would wait until he is a nominee.
BEN STEIN, ACTOR, ECONOMIST, LAWYER: I think there`s something to that. I would like to say, I have seen situations where women have accused men of sexual harassment and nothing came of it. I think it`s really quite unfair to him to assume there`s something to it without knowing more about it. Here is a guy who has an extremely distinguished career, has come from nothing to be an extremely successful guy and very articulate. Let`s hear more about what`s going on. Rumors are not enough for me to derail him.
BEHAR: Well, then shouldn`t he be happy to let this woman feel free to speak? He should want that. He`s a straight shooter.
STEIN: Not if he thinks she`s making things up and is going to be a loose cannon. If he can get all sides of the story out, then I think that`s fine. But if he`s going to have one loose cannon shouting at him, I don`t necessarily think that`s good. She did sign a confidentiality agreement. There must be a reason for knit.
BEHAR: Because the company doesn`t want her to spill the beans and keep quiet. They want her to keep it quiet to protect his --
STEIN: But that doesn`t mean what she said was true. We don`t know what the sexual harassment was. Maybe he asked her if she would have sex with him and maybe said to her, you look awfully cute in those shoes. We don`t know what it was.
BEHAR: Roland, comments?
MARTIN: Here`s the problem. I understand what Ben is saying. I appreciate him trying to bail Herman Cain out. But the difference here is this here -- this is not a situation where there is a woman coming forward 12 years later with saying something happened 12 years ago. This is an example of two women who lodged complaints with him with the National Restaurant Association.
According to Cain, not the women, there was an investigation. They came to a settlement. So there was a process here. This isn`t some allegation thrown like a Hail Mary. This was something as a process here. So Herman Cain has to deal with that. Then he say, didn`t know there was a settlement, and a few hours later, I knew there was a settlement. And so his own conflicting answers has hurt him more than anybody else.
STEIN: May I respectfully say, I had a friend who was a high executive, a woman executive of a very large manufacturing company who was just extremely angry at her boss. And she just said I`m going to fix his wagon. I`m going to file a sex harassment charge against him. I said, what`s the sexual harassment? She said I`ll make something up. And this is an extremely intelligent, hardworking, well-educated woman furious at this guy and wanted to get him. There was nothing --
MARTIN: That has no bearings on this.
STEIN: Sir, with all due respect it does, because what I`m saying is any can make up anything. We don`t know if it`s true or not, hasn`t been through a court of law. We just don`t know.
BEHAR: You can cry rape also, but that doesn`t mean -- most women are telling the truth. There`s exceptions.
STEIN: I`d like to see some process of law before this man`s whole career gets smeared.
BEHAR: If everything would be put out in the open, I think it would help him.
Let`s look at another moment from Herman Cain. Let`s watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: There are factions trying to destroy me personally as well as this campaign. But there is a force greater, there is a force at work here that is much greater than those that would try to destroy me and destroy this campaign and this journey to the White House. And that force is called the voice of the people. That`s why we`re doing as well as we are in this campaign thus far. You all are supposed to applaud.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You know, I love this guy. He says blame yourself if you don`t have a job. Now he`s blaming the audience for not clapping.
STEIN: Come on, Joy, that`s pretty damned funny. That`s very, very funny.
BEHAR: All right, all right. You know, he`s still ahead in the polls. That`s what`s interesting. Roland, he`s still ahead of Romney. Doesn`t that say something about -- both of you can answer this -- that the GOP doesn`t really like Romney?
STEIN: I don`t think the GOP has a good field of candidates. This is not a year they have a powerful field of candidates.
BEHAR: Do you think he`s just going to vote for Obama in 2012 again?
STEIN: I would put any amount of money if you gave me even odds on Obama.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
MARTIN: Joy, here is what you have. First of all, there are eight candidates in this race right now, OK. Iowa is going to be a huge issue. Let me remind folks, at this very juncture in 2007, Senator Hillary Clinton was up 20 points against then Senator Obama. In 2003 at this very point, John -- Howard Dean was running laps around the field. And so these things change.
Most Republican voters, more than the majority have not even decided who they`re going to vote for. And so again, I understand polls are a snapshot, but I tell you, when one of the most powerful conservative radio talk show hosts in Iowa, the first state, makes claims that Herman Cain makes inappropriate comments, this guy is on the record.
BEHAR: Ben, he`s toast. Something like that, come on.
MARTIN: -- a conservative radio talk show host.
STEIN: What Roland is saying the people you think are toast do not turn out to be toast, and then saying they do turn out to be toast.
MARTIN: What I`m saying is --
STEIN: We`ll find out in the future. His story thus far, Herman Cain`s story thus far, even if he does not become the winner, is an an incredibly impressive story no matter how it turns out.
BEHAR: Yes, but that doesn`t mean you can become president.
STEIN: I don`t think he should be president. Romney has a million times more qualifications, so does Newt and Santorum. But his is an amazing story.
BEHAR: OK. But now we`re hearing that Cain`s wife will do an interview later this week. Is that going to help his campaign then?
STEIN: If she`s articulate and loyal --
MARTIN: That is stunning.
BEHAR: Why is that stunning?
MARTIN: That is stunning because she has been absolutely absent from this campaign. And so if he is going to send his wife out to do this interview, that`s a sign of a candidate who say, oh, I know I`m in trouble. She has not been on the campaign trail, she hasn`t done any interviews. That`s clear sign. I tell you right now. He knows he`s in trouble, to send the wife out when she`s been absent.
BEHAR: Do you think she`s going to say it`s a high-tech lynching? Didn`t Clarence Thomas --
STEIN: He said it. Clarence Thomas himself said it.
MARTIN: Clarence Thomas said it, but Herman Cain said a few months ago, oh, I know they will do the same thing to me. Let me tell you something, I think there`s a reason why we should show a lynching photo, we should show the photo, because it is disrespectful, it is disingenuous for anybody, black or white to compare Herman Cain going through a political process and the stories coming out to actual lynching. People were murdered, hung from trees.
BEHAR: I agree with that.
MARTIN: Forget the Hitler references, the lynching references. You`re not lynched when you`re still standing before some doctors trying to get campaign votes. Lynching means you`re dead, hanging from a tree, your body is charred. It`s offensive.
BEHAR: Here`s the point. When you use a Hitler reference or a Nazi reference, they go bananas in politics. When you throw out high-tech lynching as if it wasn`t anything --
STEIN: Lynching is an incredibly horrible fact in American history. But people use all kinds of phrases when they do not mean to be disrespectful, and I don`t think Herman Cain means to be disrespectful to African-Americans.
BEHAR: No, he`s trying to save his butt.
STEIN: That`s what people do in politics. That`s what politics is all about. That`s what life is all about.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I`ve got to take a break, Roland. I`ve got to take a break. We`ll continue in just a minute with these two stars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow on the "JOY BEHAR SHOW," a visit from Kim Kardashian`s mom, Kris Jenner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel, Roland Martin and Ben Stein. Ben, I want to ask you something you said about Occupy Wall Street people. You said that they were bums.
STEIN: Some of them are bums.
BEHAR: Who sit in their tents smoking doobies.
STEIN: I think I said some of them are. What I said was I worked for the large part of my life trying to fight fraud on Wall Street. I wrote a lot of articles from "Barons." I was an expert witness in a lot of cases, gave a lot of lectures about it. It`s hard work fighting fraud. You do not fight corporate fraud by banging on a drum and leaving your feces in a public park.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It seems like right wingers periodicals are really pushing this idea, it seems to me, that they`re really out of control and they`re just a bunch of losers. I don`t think that`s true.
STEIN: I haven`t seen them come up with specific proposals. All I hear that they`re doing is banging drums and marching around in circles.
BEHAR: Roland isn`t that how great movement begins without a plan?
STEIN: That`s not how they begin.
MARTIN: Joy, it is so hilarious to listen to guys like Ben to go, oh, they`re just walking around banging drums. Let me tell you something. The civil rights movement was kick started in Montgomery, Alabama. And you know what, it was designed to be a one-day boycott, not 181 day, one day. And all of a sudden it went from 1955 all the way through the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, Fair Housing Act. Here`s the deal.
BEHAR: That`s true, Ben.
STEIN: There is no comparison at all.
MARTIN: Ben, one second. You see anger and frustration arise. Here`s what`s interesting. Bank of America backed off those bank fees. Bankers are being quoted as saying, yes, they`re having an impact. You take anger and see public policy come afterwards, then you have trouble on your hands. So keep dismissing them, Ben, I applaud you. But you are not going to like it when they have a plan and it`s coming after folks like you.
STEIN: Why would they come after folks like me more than folks like you?
MARTIN: Here`s why, Ben, because you are blowing it off. You`re dismissing it when what is clear is that people are angry with Wall Street and bankers --
STEIN: Look, my friend, I was fighting fraud on Wall Street before you even knew what it was a long, long time ago, so don`t give me that crap. I`ve been fighting it for a long, long time. I`ve been working on it a long, long time. You don`t get anywhere banging a drum and leaving your feces on the ground.
And the Civil Rights movement had a clear set of goals. That brave, brave woman who wouldn`t give up her seat on the bus, she had a clear plan and didn`t want to move to the back of the bus, so did Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
MARTIN: Ben, let me remind you -- Joy, when I look at a lot of the comments on Occupy Wall Street, they say these people are communists, they hate Americas. These were the exact same comments that people said during the Civil Rights movement.
STEIN: Not even remotely comparable. The Civil Rights movement had goals.
MARTIN: Allow me to finish. What I`m saying is that when you take anger and frustration and then people begin to get active and begin to get involved, what happens is the net result then is public policy. Marching is tied to public policy. Dr. King was planning a poor people`s campaign in 1968. Guess what, Joy, the plan was to occupy the National Mall with poor people in actual huts and shanties to show America the plight of the poor.
BEHAR: OK.
STEIN: Roland, I actually was there at that poor people`s march in the encampments. They had a specific set of plans and ideas. They didn`t just bang a drum and drop their feces on the ground. They had a specific set of plans.
MARTIN: Ben, you will see a plan.
BEHAR: You`re a rational Republican or you used to be anyway until today.
(LAUGHTER)
STEIN: I`m very rational. I hope I`m fairly rational.
BEHAR: Here`s my question. The Republicans keep calling the richest Americans and the corporations job creators. They have had 12 years of tax breaks. Where are the jobs?
STEIN: Wait a second, joy. Wait a second. I hate to tell you this. I have been the Republican campaigning for higher taxes on the rich for a long time.
BEHAR: Can you explain what they`re saying?
STEIN: I was a columnist for the "New York Times" five or six years, almost every column was raising taxes on the rich, and all the Republicans hated me for it.
BEHAR: Then play Devil`s advocate and tell me what they`re talking about?
STEIN: They think that if they lower taxes on the rich it will create more jobs. There is no doubt. It`s been proven true. And we do need higher taxes on very rich people, as rich as Roland.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Ben, I`ll be happy to take all the commercials you do. We know you`re getting paid.
Joy, here`s the other thing Republicans want to deny, and that is the tax cuts imposed also greatly contributed to the national debt. They want to act like it didn`t, but in effect it did.
STEIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. You`re right. You`re right.
MARTIN: Only were jobs not created, we now increased our debt and now they`re saying, let`s cut the debt. We don`t want to raise taxes. What are you talking about?
STEIN: You`re totally right about that. It`s wrong to lower taxes on the rich without it having some good purpose. If it has no good purpose, why do it?
BEHAR: The right wing says this is class warfare. They`ve been saying that. But Warren Buffett told you in a "New York Times" interview that, quote, "There`s class warfare all right, but it`s my class, the rich class that`s making war, and we`re winning." Do I agree with Warren?
STEIN: I agree the class warfare was all winning for the rich people until very, very recently, and they`re still winning. They`re still winning. Even if President Obama`s most severe tax increases were passed the rich would be paying less taxes than they did under Ronald Reagan. The rich pay way too little taxes in this country.
BEHAR: Why don`t the American people see through this on the Republicans --
STEIN: Because there is a tremendous propaganda campaign.
BEHAR: Coming from the right. This is from a conservative Republican saying that, that there`s a propaganda campaign coming from the right.
STEIN: And it`s a big mistake, a big mistake. Dwight Eisenhower would be embarrassed.
MARTIN: All the comments, all of the comments that you`re hearing is a poll question. When you hear Republicans across the board say "job creators," that`s poll testing. When you hear Congressman Paul Ryan talking about the issue of class warfare, that`s poll tested. What they`re dealing with, they`re appealing to, let`s be honest, white male voters in the south, middle-class. By saying they`re coming after you, those Democrats, that`s what they`re doing. Poll-tested phrases.
BEHAR: OK, thanks, guys.
STEIN: Thank you so much.
BEHAR: Ben`s book is called "What Would Ben Stein Do?" And we`ll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: He spends his mornings talking sports on ESPN Radio. But one thing his listeners may not know about him is that he has Type 2 Diabetes. Back with me is Mike Golic, co-host of "Mike and Mike in the Morning." Welcome back to the set, Mike.
MIKE GOLIC, CO-HOST, "MIKE AND MIKE IN THE MORNING": Thank you.
BEHAR: You were diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes. Tell me what that is, exactly.
GOLIC: I finished playing in the NFL, in 1994. And I didn`t want to run or workout anymore and I became fat and sloppy like some ex-players tend to do, and I didn`t live a healthy life. And I got a checkup about six years ago, my doctor said I have Type 2 Diabetes. It`s a manageable situation. But I had to make some changes in what I was doing. I had to lose some weight and I had to eat better. But I learned some hard lesson. When you think diabetes, you think about high blood pressure. This is about low blood sugar.
BEHAR: Type 2 Diabetes is low blood sugar?
GOLIC: Both high and low, but most people just think high.
So I was working out to lose weight to get healthier after I was diagnosed. To lose weight, what do you do? You don`t eat. And to work out, I worked out really hard, being an athlete that I was. It was a bad combination. I was dizzy, I got the sweats, the shakes. And it was a low blood sugar experience. And I knew nothing about it.
And so I called my doctor after that. He said, you have to eat smart. There could be diabetic medications that would cause that. But I had to retrain myself. I don`t eat a lot of different things, Joy. You have to eat smarter and get a game plan with your doctor.
BEHAR: And you have to eat more than three times a day.
GOLIC: In America now, five to six small meals a day. It`s the same thing with me. But I needed an education, because you think high blood sugar and low blood sugar, that`s what bloodsugarbasics.com the website, that`s a very education website, is for. Listen, I got hit in the head my whole life playing football. Sometimes I don`t know the right questions to ask. So, this website tells you the right questions to ask gives you the ABCs of diabetes.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLIC: And gives you quizzes to take to learn more about it so you can kind of -- I live my life with a coach. Now, my doctor`s my coach to game plan for me.
BEHAR: Just before we go, what`s the food you had to give up that you regret and hated?
GOLIC: I didn`t have to give up -- I can`t shovel sugar in my pie hole all the time.
BEHAR: You can`t eat chocolate.
GOLIC: You can. Everything in moderation. Again, just like real life, everything in moderation. Just be smart about it and you can live a life just like everybody else.
BEHAR: There`s the dreaded portion control that we have to live with.
GOLIC: Yes. After I was 320 pounds, I found out about that real quick.
BEHAR: How much did you lose?
GOLIC: I was at 315, 320. I`m in the low 260s, now.
BEHAR: That`s very good. You`re a big guy. You`re tall.
GOLIC: Yes, I`m a large man.
BEHAR: Thanks for sharing all this information.
Up next, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" will have the latest on Lindsay Lohan`s return to jail. Thank you for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
