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Joy Behar Page
Penn State Rape Scandal; Interview With Long Island Medium Theresa Caputo
Aired November 09, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, as a child molestation scandal rocks Penn State, Joy wants to know how so many people in power seemed to turn a blind eye to turn a blind eye to Jerry Sandusky`s alleged crimes for so many years. Joy will speak to one of Sandusky`s closest friends about the coach`s his apparent double life.
Then, reality family, the Duggars are expecting their 20th child. But the mother is 45 years old. At this point, are they being unsafe and unethical?
Plus Brett Ratner steps down as producer for the 2012 Oscars after making homophobic remarks. Joy will have an update.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Legendary Penn State football coach, Joe Paterno, says he will retire at the end of football season. His statement comes in the aftermath of a sex abuse scandal involving former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky who`s accused of sexually abusing at least eight boys over a 15- year-period.
With me now is Kip Richeal, long time friend and former colleague of Sandusky.
But first here with the latest on this story is CNN correspondent, Jason Carroll; Jason, Paterno says he will retire at the year end. Was that a forced retirement or was that voluntary?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean yesterday, Joy, when we were out here, we were still hearing from Paterno`s son, Scott, who was still telling us, no discussion of retiring, no discussion of leaving his post. And then, all of a sudden today, we get word that in fact, not true, that Paterno is going to have to step down. He`ll do it at the end of the season.
Obviously, speaking to a lot of his players, Joy, they were very upset thinking that they wanted him to stay on. But there was such an upwelling of criticism against Paterno for how he reacted to this crisis that there is no choice but to force his early retirement.
BEHAR: Well, we`re also hearing that the president of Penn State may be fired. What do you know about that?
CARROLL: Yes the Board of trustees had been meeting and we`re hearing that what they`re basically doing is putting the final touches on his exit. That`s Graham Spanier, a man who`s been known as being out there, always there with his students not living in an ivory tower.
But once again, Joy, it`s the same thing. So many people critical of his reaction or failing to act in the wake of this crisis that once again, a lot of people saying the buck ultimately stops with him and he simply didn`t do enough in the wake of this crisis -- Joy.
BEHAR: Well, ok. What about the general sentiment on campus? Are people divided or do they feel it`s right that Paterno go or what?
CARROLL: Well, when you look at some of that video that I saw from last night, there was a huge rally in front of Paterno`s home, lots of supporters coming out, a lot of students screaming, "Joe, Joe, Joe", you know, wanting him to stay. You definitely have that camp. You have the players who want him to stay as well.
On the other side of that, you have a number of people in the community, students, alumni as well, Joy, who simply say, look, this is a guy who legally, he did the right thing, he told his superior about this allegation of sexual assault. But morally, he didn`t do enough.
And this is the man who, as you know, Joy, is the face of Penn State football. And you just simply cannot have a man who symbolically stood for the good, stay in a position after failing to act in the way that he did.
BEHAR: The whole thing is a sad story. But Sandusky has been charged. Will any else be charged?
CARROLL: Good question. And according to the attorney general, she left that open, left that possibility open. So, we may see other people charged. Doesn`t look terribly likely at this point. But once again, the attorney general said it was an open possibility.
BEHAR: Now, one more question for you, Jason, before you go. Sandusky and his wife have six children and have fostered children as well. Were there any complaints about abuse within his own home that you know of?
CARROLL: Not that I know of. His six adopted children are grown at this point, spread out all over the country. But there is one interesting point about that. I`m going to refer back to the attorney general. She simply said because this man, Joy, had so much access to young people for such a long period of time, it would be a -- not without the realm of possibility that there might be other victims out there.
He`s only charged with abusing eight. But a source close to the investigation tells me a police tip line has received more than a dozen calls from people who say they, too, were victimized by Sandusky.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you very much, Jason, for the reporting.
Let me turn to Kip Richeal, who`s known Jerry Sandusky for over 30 years and co-wrote his book, "Touched". Kip, many call Sandusky a monster. Describe the man you knew.
KIP RICHEAL, CO-AUTHOR OF JERRY SANDUSKY`S BOOK, "TOUCHED": I kind of knew that that would be the thoughts of people all over the country as the news of this grew. It would certainly be tough for me to say that he`s a monster because I`ve known him for 33 years and always known him to be a great guy. He was a coach and a friend. I was an equipment manager at Penn State.
The football players loved him, playing for him. The managers loved working for him and with him. He had a real good personality all the time to us. I`ve always known him to be a really good guy.
BEHAR: Were you shocked by the allegations?
RICHEAL: Yes, I absolutely was, especially the severity of it all. The number of supposed victims or alleged victims, is just incredible to me. It really put me in not shock but I was really disturbed by it because the bottom line is he is a friend from a long time ago. I think anybody who had a friend for 33 years and then finds this out about their friend would have a little bit more compassion for him in the past -- in that past time because you have such memories.
BEHAR: Right. I understand. But how was he around children? What was your observation, when you saw him with kids?
RICHEAL: I saw him around "Second Mile" kids. I always saw him to be a good person to them. I never saw any of the things that are alleged for sure. I never witnessed anything like that. But I always saw him to be a good person to them, wanting to be able to give them a chance.
A lot of these kids came from at-risk nature. Their families were single parent, that kind of thing. They didn`t care at all. And Jerry and the people at Second Mile, all the people aboard, the counselors and so forth, they all wanted to give these kids a better chance.
BEHAR: Well, you`re talking -- let me explain what the charity is. It`s called Second Mile and it was his charity, Sandusky and put him in contact with children. Some say the charity was a ruse to prey on kids. What do you make of that?
RICHEAL: I don`t think I could agree with that because it has grown to be such a big thing. If it was made to just be a ruse to attract children, I think they would have stopped maybe at a foster home but Second Mile has --
BEHAR: It`s kind of odd, isn`t it, that here he has a charity for children and he`s allegedly a child rapist?
RICHEAL: Well, it`s certainly an oddity, absolutely. It`s just something that you don`t see every day for sure. But the Second Mile grew to be a thing, an organization that has helped kids -- over 100,000 kids a year through camps, camp counseling, big brothers, big sisters, things like that. They have a board of directors and they have officers. So I don`t know if I could say that it was a ruse but if the allegations prove to be true --
BEHAR: Do you believe they`re true?
RICHEAL: Then obviously it was --
BEHAR: Do you think they`re true?
RICHEAL: I really can`t -- I really don`t want to comment whether I think it`s true or not because I can`t be a judge and accuser like that. I can only -- I would just like to let the courts play it out. And if it`s come out that it is true or he`s found guilty, then I would be very upset with him.
BEHAR: What would you like to say to him, if they`re true? What would you say to him as a friend?
RICHEAL: I would like to say why? I would like to say why did it come to this? What made you do this?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It sounds like it`s been going on for many years.
RICHEAL: Right.
BEHAR: It`s been going on a long time allegedly.
RICHEAL: Well, sure, according to the --
BEHAR: It`s been going on.
RICHEAL: I know. I mean why did you let your life get to this from over that period of time? If it is true, then it`s a totally different personality of the Jerry Sandusky that I knew in my past. For sure.
BEHAR: Well, it`s a secret life. It`s a secret life obviously --
RICHEAL: Yes.
BEHAR: -- that he tried to keep secret but there are witnesses.
Anyway, thank you Kip, very much for coming on the show with me. We`ll have much more on this scandal when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The question is who needs to be held accountable for the Penn State sex abuse scandal? Here to discuss that and more: Steve Adubato, a crisis communication specialist and the author of "What Were They Thinking?"; Stacey Honowitz, a former Florida prosecutor specializing in child abuse cases and the author of "My Privates are Private; and Don Lemon, a CNN reporter and anchor who himself was the victim of child abuse.
Thank you all for joining me.
Stacey, it`s always the same. I just talked to Kip Richeal, who is a close friend of Sandusky for many, many years. He describes him as a perfectly normal guy and they always look like the guy next door. What do we look out for? You`re the expert on this. What should mothers and people be looking out for -- and fathers?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, Joy, I am still a prosecutor. I supervise the Sex Crimes and Child Abuse unit and I specifically go out and I talk about issues like this because parents are unaware of what the signs are. And it could be the guy next door. It`s not the guy in the van down in the street with the trench coat.
It`s anybody that really tries to get close to kids, to gain the trust of kids, to engross themselves in every kind of child activity who gets close to a child and it`s kind of an unnatural relationship. That`s what parents need to look for.
I specifically wrote a book "Genius with a Penis, Don`t Touch" because people seem to think that it can`t happen to young boys. I`m here to tell you there are lots of boys that are --
BEHAR: Yes.
HONOWITZ: -- victims that don`t want to come forward and parents need to sit down, discuss with their kids that it could happen to them and to be very cautious and to be careful.
BEHAR: All right. Now, everybody is morally culpable here. But who is legally culpable?
HONOWITZ: Well, in this case, they have a duty, the people at the school -- the two gentlemen that have already been indicted had a duty to report it.
Many people say what was Joe Paterno`s role? He does have a duty but I think he probably thought his duty was only to go to the person above him. But he didn`t follow through. And so, in lieu, I guess, of the investigation of the board talking what to do, he`s put in for retirement.
But everybody who knew about this, anybody involved with the school has an obligation to go to the police legally and basically morally.
BEHAR: Ok. Ok. Steve, what do you say about Joe Paterno? He was supposed to report it to a higher up. You say what?
STEVE ADUBATO, MEDIA ANALYST: Well, first, Joe Paterno has no higher up at Penn State. He`s the brand of the university. He is the university. He`s more powerful than the president of the university. What he did was go to the athletic director.
BEHAR: Yes.
ADUBATO: The athletic director isn`t your boss. That`s person technically Joe, that you had to go to, to cover your behind. If you really wanted to make sure you -- you have all this grandchildren you talked about in the statement he made. How about if Jerry Sandusky, who was supposed to become the head coach of Penn State, your protege, if Jerry Sandusky had done it to one of your kids, just make sure you go to the AD. That`s garbage. It`s crap.
BEHAR: That`s true.
ADUBATO: He should not be allowed to coach these next four games. His statement said, "I`m going to do everything I can to my dying days to help the university." No, Joe, help the kids. They`re the only thing that matters.
BEHAR: That`s a very good point.
ADUBATO: It`s not about the university. Screw the university.
BEHAR: If you don`t know what to do, think if it was your child, what would you do?
ADUBATO: I have a seven and a nine-year-old. And I want someone to tell me that the person who saw it, the person that knew about it, particularly if he had the power that Joe Paterno had, that what he did was -- what he had to do legally. Not even close.
If we can`t protect our kids -- by the way, just last thing I`ll say - - Penn State, you take a kid to Penn State, this Second Mile thing that Jerry Sandusky runs. Listen, what a coincidence, takes those kids out to the campus of Penn State. Those kids are enthralled by it. They`re so vulnerable once that happens.
(CROSSTALK)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And Joy -- Joy.
BEHAR: Go ahead, Don.
LEMON: Let me jump in here.
BEHAR: Go ahead, Don.
LEMON: We`ve been talking over and over and over -- I`ve been saying on television. Oh, this illustrious football program and this guy who is a legend. This is about the victims, potential victims or at least the eight boys that he`s accused of molesting and the thousands of more victims who the same sort of thing is happening as we`re having this conversation.
We keep talking about the football coach and about football team and all that. This is about awareness now and about how those young men -- and there could be more who are going to accuse him of this. How they are going to cope and deal with this going forward.
I have to ask everyone this question. When that graduate assistant said he saw --
BEHAR: McQueary.
LEMON: Yes. He said he saw Sandusky in the shower with someone who looked to be 10 years old. If you saw someone doing that on the street to a 10-year-old boy, the first thing you would try to do is intervene or call 911. You wouldn`t run away and say, my gosh, what am I going to do.
ADUBATO: And then he told his father.
BEHAR: He told his father.
LEMON: If I saw a grown person being assaulted on the street, the first thing I would do is try to help him and call the cops.
ADUBATO: But to Don`s point. Don I appreciate and respect everything you`re saying. I agree up to an extent. But here`s my point. If we don`t make an example, right now -- they`re not mutually exclusive helping these kids. Protecting these kids as best you can, giving them the guidance, or whatever help they need mentally and emotionally.
But that`s not the same as throwing the book at Joe Paterno. Throwing the book -- the president has to go. Joe Paterno walks on that field and when they play Nebraska this weekend, how dare they allow that? Joe Paterno --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That sends a signal to the world that this sort of behavior, covering up or putting your hand in the sand -- listen, Joe Paterno, everyone has said it. Everyone has said, Joe Paterno, Jerry Sandusky, innocent until proven guilty.
But if you look at the complaint and you read the complaint, there were charges of this before. And if someone had said something about this and you knew there was something (AUDIO GAP) weeks or days or months or years, you should do it right away. That sends a signal by him going out on the field that the behavior, it is ok to cover these things up and make excuses.
HONOWITZ: Because it happens all the time. The cover-ups happen all the time especially in big schools and universities. Look, they`re afraid of losing their programs. Instead of looking at the victims, looking at child molestation, educating people as to what they have to do. They`re too concerned about reputation of the school. It happens all the time.
ADUBATO: And look what happened. Look at the irony of this, Joy. They were so concerned about protecting the reputation of Penn State that they actually destroyed the reputation of Penn State.
And I`m not saying, Don, that I care that much about it. What I`m saying is in an effort to protect Jerry Sandusky, in an effort to not focus on the kids, because if they brought it out it would be embarrassing to the university. Look at the story it is today. The cover-up I usually say is worse than the crime but in this case the crime is worse.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: This goes far beyond football. It goes far beyond Penn State. This happens every single day in America, every single day in the world.
(CROSSTALK)
HONOWITZ: And guess what, Don? I want to tell you something very interesting.
LEMON: One in six -- hang on, let me finish this -- it is believed one in six young boys are molested.
HONOWITZ: It`s one in six young boys, under the age of 18.
LEMON: And they believe that it`s more because boys don`t want to talk about it. I know from experience. I didn`t tell my nom until I was 30 years old. That is the case for most people.
HONOWITZ: But Don, I want to tell you something very interesting. In prosecuting these cases you have no idea that I can`t go to a school and talk about this because parents don`t want to hear about it. They don`t want to know from us. They`re in denial and that`s why education is so important.
BEHAR: It`s so painful to hear. People put it out.
LEMON: It`s disgusting.
ADUBATO: And some still support Paterno, which is really sickening.
BEHAR: Ok. We`re going to continue this in just a minute.
We`ll take a break. Don`t go away. I don`t think you will.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel and we`re talking about the Penn State sex abuse scandal. We`re talking about the cover-up which we saw this same thing happen in the Catholic Church scandal. It`s ironic, you know, what happens is they try to protect the institution and they blow it up and make it worse than ever, which is what happened to the church a lot.
ADUBATO: Yes. Absolutely. In the church thing, it`s been not only moving priests from parish to parish but also they had court settlements.
Here`s my thing about Sandusky. Here`s my thing about Paterno. They knew something bad happened. When Joe Paterno in that statement today said "I wished I had done something more." Joe Paterno`s reputation, forget about he`s a football coach, Joy. He`s supposed to teach young men how to be men. Stand up, have integrity, have honesty.
Listen, we all have skeletons. We all make mistakes. But when you talk about kids, all bets are off. That`s not an adult mistake with another adult. That`s a child who`s defenseless. And these kids felt that they couldn`t say anything because they were with Jerry Sandusky and he was Joe Paterno`s buddy. Could you imagine the sickness that this guy had and they protected him?
The cover-ups are --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But listen.
BEHAR: Go ahead Don.
LEMON: Let me tell you. These types of people, they don`t just prey on the victims, they prey on the families. They groom the families as well.
BEHAR: Right.
LEMON: They figure that they are in a position of authority. They see someone who`s vulnerable. So they go to the mom and they say, "Listen, Joey is 12 years old, maybe I want to get him to be an altar boy." Or, "I`m going to take him into the coaching program and I`m going to make sure he`s ok."
So they know what they`re doing, they`re trying to figure it out and so they groom the families as well. So it`s not just the victims who are victims; it`s the families as well.
HONOWITZ: And families don`t want to know, Don. But that`s the sickest part. Parents don`t want to know. When somebody goes to them and says I want to take your son to the movie. I`m his Boy Scout leader, I want to get him involved in this. Parents don`t realize that that could be pedophilia.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, they know it now.
LEMON: That`s why -- that`s why this story is a wake-up call.
(CROSSTALK)
HONOWITZ: No, they don`t know it now. I`ve been talking about this for 20 years and nobody wants to listen. I can`t get to a school.
LEMON: But this time you have a story like this.
BEHAR: You might be over-generalizing, Stacey.
LEMON: It offers an opportunity to bring this out into the open and to get -- to stop the cycle of abuse.
(CROSSTALK)
HONOWITZ: Well, why don`t you let parents read my book, then. Why can`t the media say my book, the name of the book on TV? They`re afraid "Genius with a Penis, Don`t Touch".
(CROSSTALK)
ADUBATO: You said it twice already. No one`s stopping you.
HONOWITZ: I will say it 20 times. But no one wants to listen.
ADUBATO: Respectfully, Stacey. That`s not solving the problem, you plugging your book.
HONOWITZ: It`s called education. Wait a second, I`m not trying to plug my book to make a quick buck.
BEHAR: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
ADUBATO: Let`s stay focused on the kids.
HONOWITZ: Every single day I deal with parents whose child has been molested.
BEHAR: Excuse Stacey, let Don have the last word because I think we`re out of time.
LEMON: It`s not solving the problem to sit here on television and they have us argue about it. We all know it`s wrong. We all know that it needs to be exposed. The right thing to do is to have an intelligent conversation and to speak to parents on this platform that we have now and say, listen the person who is a molester and abuser doesn`t have "M" on their forehead or an "A" on their foreheads to say that I`m an abuser or I`m a molester.
BEHAR: Right.
LEMON: It can be anyone with your children.
ADUBATO: Any sick person --
Don, finally, this is a sick human being who the other people who are not sick mentally, emotionally deranged, they should have stopped him. He was a predator and they didn`t. They have to be held accountable.
BEHAR: That`s right.
HONOWITZ: That`s right.
LEMON: Joy, thank you for this opportunity.
BEHAR: Thank you all very much.
ADUBATO: Thank you Joy.
BEHAR: And we`ll be right back. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up next, director Brett Ratner steps down as producer of the Oscars after making homophobic remarks. Joy will have the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Yesterday, Brett Ratner stepped down as producer of next year`s Oscars. Today, Eddie Murphy followed him out the door. No replacement for Murphy has been named yet. I know someone in the movie business who is available. Hello! "Hall Pass," I think my work speaks for itself.
Joining me now to talk about this and other pop culture stories in the news are Chuck Nice, comedian and host of "The Hot 10" on Centric, Deidre Hall, star of "Days of Our Lives" and the author of "How Does She Do It?" And Joe Levy, pop culture commentator. Welcome, guys. OK, Joe, did Murphy step down in support of Ratner, do you think?
JOE LEVY, POP CULTURE COMMENTATOR: I think he did. Brett Ratner got him into this. Brett Ratner is the director of "Tower Heist." Eddie Murphy is in the movie. Brett Ratner came on to produce the Oscars. And here is a little fact about the Oscar telecast. When you`re the producer, you`re only responsible for about 30 minutes of television. The rest of it is people getting awards and giving thank you speeches. So Ratner brought Eddie Murphy on, he said it was going to be great, it was going to be funny, and then Brett Ratner went out to promote "Tower Heist" and talked the way that guys do in high school locker rooms, about a whole bunch of different things. About having sex with Lindsay Lohan and telling her to go to a doctor and get tested first. And then he used a short word to describe--
BEHAR: Gays, gay men.
LEVY: As many letters as gays, and we don`t say it because it`s offensive. He used it in a context where he was not talking about gay people, but just the same, it`s a dumb thing to do, you don`t say that.
BEHAR: Right, right. It`s politically incorrect at this point. But what about Eddie? Eddie has had some homophobic attacks in the past. He had this movie called "Delirious," which I never saw.
CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: Yeah, it was his standup.
BEHAR: I mean, what about that?
NICE: Well, you know, Eddie--
BEHAR: Maybe he doesn`t want to dredge it up.
NICE: I don`t blame him, because he also, if I`m not mistaken, was found on Sunset Boulevard with a man, a lady man, I`ll just put it like that.
BEHAR: I think you have to say allegedly, because that was never proven.
NICE: Allegedly. It was never proven, but you know--
LEVY: I think that it was proven that they were found together. It just wasn`t proven that he had done anything more than giving her a ride home.
BEHAR: I see.
NICE: Is that what they call it now?
LEVY: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No. They call it a drive with Herman Cain. That`s what they call it. Anyway, you know, he apologized, Deidre, do you think it was sincere?
DEIDRE HALL, ACTRESS: I think Eddie backed out because he doesn`t want to rehearse. There is no mystery there.
NICE: Hence the ride home.
BEHAR: But you know, the Academy Awards needs to spice the show up. And every time they have a comic as the host, it works in my opinion. Even though David Letterman had a little trouble. Uma, remember that one, Uma, Oprah. Whatever that was. But usually, look -- Billy Crystal, even Bob Hope back in this day, Steve Martin scored. Who else? Tell me.
LEVY: Johnny Carson.
(CROSSTALK)
NICE: Whoopi Goldberg did a fantastic job.
BEHAR: Whoopi Goldberg was great.
HALL: And last year, it wasn`t so funny.
BEHAR: No. And you know what, last year, wasn`t that James Franco?
NICE: Yes, it was.
BEHAR: You know what, he bombed and we haven`t heard from him since. That show is loaded. You can really destroy your career if you go down the toilette over there, in my opinion, am I right?
NICE: And the thing is that all the world is watching, all of Hollywood is watching. There are a bunch of I hate to put it, but you know, tight asses that are sitting there, and you know, you have to find a way to poke fun at people and keep their egos intact at the same time.
BEHAR: Not easy.
NICE: And it`s not easy. And comedians have the ability to do that. That`s why they do so well at it.
BEHAR: OK. Let`s move on to another story, which is a really good one.
HALL: I`m just glad we solved that. OK.
BEHAR: We solved that. The head of the Irish Airline, Ryanair, wants to make pay-per-view porn content available as part of its in-flight entertainment. Time to put those blankets back in coach! OK. Now, Joe, would you be more or less likely to fly Ryanair now?
LEVY: Define fly. Just to be clear, just to be clear, this guy is a PR monster. He just says this stuff to get people talking about Ryanair. It`s this low-cost airline, it`s no thrills, the seats don`t recline. Last week he was saying they were going to charge to use the bathroom or they are going to take all the restrooms out but one and put in more seats. Now, he`s saying they are going to have porn, but through an app on your handheld device. So it won`t be on the seat. Well, yeah, one hand here and--
BEHAR: How are you going to do that with one hand?
LEVY: I don`t know.
BEHAR: That`s a good point.
LEVY: You need one hand free.
(CROSSTALK)
HALL: OK, we`ve beaten it to pieces already.
BEHAR: I mean, so the grandma in the next seat can`t see it?
LEVY: Well, he`s claiming that he`ll have all sorts of precautions in place so that people with their hand-held porn won`t be seated next to grandmas who will be offended or kids.
NICE: Like what, a spank shield? Exactly how do you -- how bad is your problem that you can`t go a four-hour flight without flogging it? I mean, that`s ridiculous. I don`t know what I`m going to do, man, I`m serious, I can`t take it. I need to go. Just please, put up the window. I got to do something right now. It`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: I know, it`s true.
NICE: It`s so ridiculous.
BEHAR: They do have porn in hotel rooms, Deidre.
HALL: Oh? I just -- yesterday, I would have said no to the porn thing. And I flew Continental on a brand new plane, L.A. to New York, not a single piece of entertainment. I mean, not even a cute guy in the next seat. But no movies, no nothing, no radio, no--
BEHAR: What airline was that?
HALL: Continental.
BEHAR: Oh, yeah, well.
HALL: Listen, about four hours in, I would have said, show me anything.
BEHAR: OK. Next up, Ashley Madison, listen to this, the website that encourages married adults to have affairs is in hot water after posting these ads. Look at these ads. See this woman? Can you see? OK. The ad shows a skinny woman, an obese woman, we call it as we see it. That`s the other one. The guy who runs Ashley Madison, on the other hand, his name is Noel Biderman (ph), he looks like this. Deidre, would you do him?
(CROSSTALK)
HALL: If I was on Continental, I don`t know, maybe.
LEVY: Yes, if you`re flying to Australia, you get desperate, that`s a long flight.
HALL: Would I do him? What kind of question is that? I don`t even know how to speak to that.
NICE: He looks like the kind of guy that would fly Ryanair, to be honest. And quite frankly, if he`s using an obese woman as justification for cheating on your wife, he should use his own picture as a justification for cheating on your husband.
BEHAR: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What do you think, Joe?
LEVY: Here is the interesting thing about this, the model in question raised an objection. She wrote into a website that had objected to it as well, a website called Jezebel, a feminist website, great site. She said, I don`t want to be involved in anything that involves body shaming. These pictures were taken early in my modeling career. I signed a release. I don`t like them being used this way. But let me just point out that Jackie Lane (ph) has a site called juicyjackie.com, it`s a BBW site. That`s--
NICE: Big beautiful woman.
LEVY: Wow.
BEHAR: Wow.
LEVY: That`s a little terrifying that you know that.
NICE: That`s not terrifying. Hey, big girls need love, too, and I`m here to give it to them.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Let me just say, Chuck Nice, chubby chaser.
LEVY: Just pointing out that it does not invalidate her argument, but she is in the porn industry. That`s what she does. She`s a porn model.
BEHAR: I know, but that`s really not the point I am trying to get out of you. Is he saying that if your wife is fat or if your wife is not beautiful like Deidre, that you`re not going to have sex with her, you`re not attracted to her? How do they think all these fat people get born?
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: Well, they get born smaller and then they get bigger, is my understanding of it.
BEHAR: But even ugly, even ugly -- not everybody is a beauty in this world, and there are billions of us.
LEVY: Let`s face facts, this ridiculous website, Ashley Madison, exists to make money. All they want is people talking about them. I`m sure they`re just as happy to have us outraged at their stupid ad as they would be to have us thrilled at their clever ad -- more so because they`re getting more PR out of it.
BEHAR: OK, let`s do one more story.
HALL: But if you want to learn how to be beautiful, you can pick up my book at amazon.com.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Easy, Deidre.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The Duggar family from the TLC series, "19 Kids and Counting," has announced they are now expecting their 20th child. Please, there are more people occupying this woman`s uterus than Wall Street. You know something, if I were her, I`d put a GPS on his schmekel, so I know exactly where he is at all times.
I mean, Chuck, the world population has hit 7 billion.
NICE: 7 billion.
BEHAR: What are they doing?
NICE: And most of it comes from this woman`s womb.
BEHAR: Why are they doing it? Why?
NICE: Well, you know, some people will do anything to be on TV. They`ve got to extend the show. It`s 19 and counting, now it`s 20 and counting. All I know is that thing must look like a train shed at this point.
BEHAR: Let`s leave her uterus out of this for a second and how it looks. I mean, she`s got a reality show. Do you think that they do it for that? They`re very Christian people. I`ve interviewed them many times, they`re really lovely, and the kids are not demented, I mean they`re fine, the children.
LEVY: Yeah, but they have got 19 mouths to feed. They home school them, they`ve got all those textbooks to buy. They have got to keep people tuning into this show. And the word is that they get a piece of the production budget, that they get -- the bigger the budget, the more money they are going to get. And even if that`s not the case, the more kids they have, the more people tune in.
NICE: Yes, but they`re splitting it like 20 something ways, it`s like being in Wu Tang, it`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: Where?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That sounded a little--
NICE: You know, I didn`t realize how that sounded.
BEHAR: People in the South are watching us. OK, thank you, guys, very much and we`ll be right back. Did I plug your book? Here it is.
HALL: There you go.
BEHAR: There it is. "How Does She Do It."
HALL: I did it already in the beginning, remember?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Running errands, getting a mani and pedi, talking to the judge, just a normal day in the life of Theresa Caputo, star of TLC`s "Long Island Medium." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA CAPUTO, LONG ISLAND MEDIUM: She told me she was a seamstress. What`s with the buttons? She wants to talk about the buttons, oh my God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mother used to collect buttons.
CAPUTO: Oh my God, oh my God, this must be true. I must be a medium.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You must be.
CAPUTO: I freak people out on a daily basis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK, please welcome to my show, Theresa Caputo. Here she is. Theresa, do you just sort of wander into Lohman`s (ph) and give people readings or what?
CAPUTO: If the spirit is pushing, absolutely.
BEHAR: And do they tell you anything interesting, like where the next sale, anything that we could use?
CAPUTO: No, I haven`t gotten anything like that. I always pay full price, that`s the story of my life.
BEHAR: So tell me about your first experience where you were speaking to the spirits. What was the first time it happened to you?
CAPUTO: My first experience was probably when I was very young. I can vividly remember speaking to now what I believe was my spirit guide.
BEHAR: You were speaking to your spirit guide?
CAPUTO: My spirit guide.
BEHAR: Is that like an AA sponsor?
CAPUTO: Just like that. Just like that. But the most vivid memory I remember of speaking to a spirit first was a little boy that I had channeled. And I think he speaks to me the most because it was my first experience channeling a young boy who had died.
BEHAR: How old were you?
CAPUTO: At that time, I was about 34, 35.
BEHAR: You were a grown woman.
CAPUTO: I was a grown woman.
BEHAR: And how did it happen? It just came to you.
CAPUTO: When I was younger, I thought it was normal that people saw people standing at the end of their bed or you hear people talking to you or call your name and there`s nobody in the room. I thought that was normal. And then when I got older into my teens and started sharing with my friends -- because I would share with my cousins or other family members and they were like, would make a big joke about it. My cousin used to say, oh, I want to hear what the witch has to say today. You know, there was something there then, but never knew to this extent of what it was, that I was actually communicating with dead people.
BEHAR: Well, you can understand, seeing ghosts in your room and hearing things, those are symptoms of schizophrenia.
CAPUTO: Absolutely. I always say if it wasn`t for my family and I didn`t have the love and support of my parents, I would either be a nun or I`d diagnosed with schizophrenia or--
BEHAR: You`re obviously not mentally ill.
CAPUTO: Absolutely not.
BEHAR: So what is this? And (inaudible)?
CAPUTO: I don`t know. I`ve been asking myself that question for years. I did. I was in therapy for many years, I kept saying, I`m crazy - - there is something wrong with me. And they would say, there`s nothing wrong with me.
BEHAR: So let`s say in a given day, something just comes to you?
CAPUTO: I start getting feelings and the spirit just makes me feel things. And I can`t explain it, I don`t know how it comes, where it comes, it`s just always there.
BEHAR: OK. You getting any vibes from me?
CAPUTO: I`ve already gotten vibes, it was actually on the car ride over here. I kept getting there was a father and a son together, and they were stepping forward.
BEHAR: Dead ones? They`re all dead?
CAPUTO: They passed. And it turns out that one of the girls, the girl that was interviewing me, her uncle had just passed away. He was with the father who had also passed, and just gave her a reading backstage before coming out here.
BEHAR: It`s a little creepy.
CAPUTO: It is, I agree, it is creepy.
BEHAR: It`s a little creepy.
CAPUTO: It is creepy.
BEHAR: And it has an Italianness to it, which I know you`re a Caputo. I can just picture it in the neighborhood going on, you know where there`s somebody there who is talking to the dead. Because the Italians are very big on the dead also.
CAPUTO: I`m finding that out, yes.
BEHAR: They love a wake.
CAPUTO: I guess.
BEHAR: It`s like a three act play.
CAPUTO: Exactly.
BEHAR: They put makeup on them, they sit for hours.
CAPUTO: That`s right. They sit for hours. We do our hair and everyone gets dressed.
BEHAR: But, I mean, like -- people had questions, like, let`s say a person, like my Aunt Rose, we`re talking about my Aunt Rose, she was always claustrophobic as a grown woman. So she said to me one day, she`s gone now, she said, Joy, make sure they don`t put me in a mausoleum because I`m claustrophobic. Does that make sense to you at all?
CAPUTO: Well, no, because from what spirits have told me, what we do with their physical bodies, they don`t care, because they`re not attached to the physical body anymore.
BEHAR: So nothing hurts?
CAPUTO: Nothing hurts. And from what they tell me, the minute the soul leaves the physical body, they leave any disability or ailment with the physical body. They don`t take it with them on the other side.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s good to hear.
CAPUTO: Yes.
BEHAR: Who needs to take it with you.
CAPUTO: That`s right, we have got enough crap going on here.
BEHAR: I heard another psychic once say, talking to somebody, I think it was Van Praagh, and he was saying that your grandfather is happy where he is. They`re always happy. Why are they always happy? Why is Hitler happy? I don`t want Hitler to be happy.
CAPUTO: I don`t know anything about Hitler. I have no idea. I only channel for the highest good. I only want people that walk in God`s way (ph).
BEHAR: So they are not all happy. But anyway, he was saying your grandfather is playing the piano. He didn`t play the piano in real life, why is he playing the piano while he`s dead?
CAPUTO: I have no idea. I don`t speak for other mediums or psychics. But there was someone who was bedridden or someone had a leg amputated, because they started jumping up and down, she`s a female, it`s a mother energy. I feel--
BEHAR: Where, in this room?
CAPUTO: In this room. Mother, could be grandmother, aunt, or someone who was like a mother to you.
BEHAR: Who had a leg amputated?
CAPUTO: Or an issue with the legs, they were bedridden.
BEHAR: I don`t know, we`ll have to find out. Anybody there?
CAPUTO: Don`t say that, Joy, don`t scare me like that. I didn`t like that movie.
BEHAR: Tell me how you explain all this to your husband? How long are you married?
CAPUTO: I`m married -- I was just married 22 years. I am with my husband 26 years. So when I had gone -- started going to the spiritual healer, there was a difference with me and I said to him, he goes you do seem calmer. I go, you are not going to believe this, I go, but I speak to dead people. And then he went, OK, hon, whatever, he thought I was crazy like whatever makes you feel better. If that makes you feel better thinking you speak to dead people -- and then he sees now with all my clients and just from being around that it`s -- he`s actually starting to see them.
BEHAR: He is? So it`s like contagious.
CAPUTO: I guess so. Well, I came home from work one night, and he`s like, I hear him yelling, she`s not home. I`m like, who are you talking to? He goes, all your friends, they`re in the hallways, the shadows. He was seeing the shadows in the hallway. He was telling them to go home, he`s like, she isn`t home.
BEHAR: Does it add to the sex life or hinder it?
CAPUTO: No -- everyone asks that. It hasn`t affected it at all.
BEHAR: Nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- don`t come to you when you`re having sex?
CAPUTO: No. I have never seen them. They have never tried to contact me.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You need an assistant. They should go to your assistant.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK. We will take a break and be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We are back with Long Island medium Theresa Caputo. Theresa, did you ever talk to a dead celebrity?
CAPUTO: I have spoken to several. I`ve seen Sonny Bono, I`ve -- there`s been Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: What does Sonny say? Does he approve of Chaz?
CAPUTO: No, I didn`t get into that. It`s just -- he is my symbol for -- really, Joy? I thought this was a friendly show they told me.
BEHAR: It is friendly, I am just curious. You don`t exactly get information out of them?
CAPUTO: Well, I don`t pry either. I don`t want to know everyone`s deepest, darkest secrets. I don`t want to know people`s dirty laundry. That`s not what this is about. I simply just do this and my wish for each person that comes into contact with me for a reading that they receive the most message that will give them the most healing to continue with their life.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Seriously then, what did Sonny bring you?
CAPUTO: Sonny is my symbol for actually now for someone who has passed in a skiing accident or a snowmobile.
BEHAR: I see. Now, what about your kids? Do they approve of all this?
CAPUTO: Yes, my kids love it.
BEHAR: What did you tell what`s his name, Jay Leno, that your neighbors thought you were a prostitute?
CAPUTO: Well, he asked me what my neighbors thought, and one of my neighbors thought -- he asked me if my neighbors approved of what I did. I said, well, one of them thought -- no, he asked if they knew what I did. And I said, well, one of them thought that I was a prostitute.
BEHAR: Why? Because all of those men, dead men were going in and out of the house?
CAPUTO: I have no idea, because most of my clients are women, so I don`t know what he was thinking.
BEHAR: Well, maybe he is seeing dead people, too, and he sees all these guys.
CAPUTO: I don`t know. He just kept seeing people coming in and out of my home and just assumed that I was a madam, not a medium. I don`t know.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s so great. Now, do they -- when you`re just sleeping at night, does it bother you at all, do they keep you up?
CAPUTO: I do -- they do come to me when I sleep, because that is when my mind is at rest.
BEHAR: Where else does it come to you?
CAPUTO: Anywhere.
BEHAR: Like in the shower, in the bathroom?
(CROSSTALK)
CAPUTO: I get the best information in the shower.
BEHAR: Really?
CAPUTO: I`m relaxed.
BEHAR: You`re relaxed in the shower.
CAPUTO: And they say the water is very calming and spiritual. When I dry my hair and things like that.
BEHAR: What do you say to people like me who are skeptical about all this?
CAPUTO: I say for people that are skeptics, I say I totally respect that, and I even say that I`m even a skeptic sometimes. I`m like, are you crazy? How can this be? And I just say, you know what, just don`t be so close-minded, just be open to seeing messages from your loved ones, that they are still with you, and don`t knock it until you try it.
BEHAR: Well, I agree with that part, but you know, I don`t believe you actually see your relatives there, except maybe on videotape. But I don`t really, can`t buy, believe it, really.
CAPUTO: Well, you know what, I always say, I will find out when I get there. I`m just telling you what the spirit is telling me. They, listen, how would I know if I know somebody and I say, your father is telling me that your mother was there to greet him. I didn`t know that the mother was passed or there was a best friend that they were there to greet him. They would say, oh my God, before they died they were talking about that they saw them standing there.
BEHAR: I see. So you`re not getting anything, no Aunt Rose, Uncle Joe?
CAPUTO: I got nothing.
BEHAR: My father, nothing?
CAPUTO: I got nothing.
BEHAR: What a bunch of unfriendly dead relatives I have.
CAPUTO: Exactly.
BEHAR: Thank you, Theresa, I got to go.
CAPUTO: Thank you, very nice meeting you.
BEHAR: You`re terrific.
CAPUTO: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: You can catch an encore airing of the finale of "Long Island Medium" Wednesday at 8:00 p.m. on TLC. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
