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Joy Behar Page
Penn State Rape Scandal; Ashton and Demi Moore; Sinatra`s Porno Past?
Aired November 21, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, one of Jerry Sandusky`s alleged victims is harassed so intensely that he had to leave his school prompt, prompting Joe Paterno to take on bullying. Joy will look at how the victims in this case are being re-traumatized.
Then Demi Moore is divorcing Ashton Kutcher, but not because of his cheating. Turns out Kutcher`s tweet in support of Joe Paterno was reportedly the last straw.
That and more starting now.
BEHAR: Fallout from the Penn State scandal continues as the first boy who accused Jerry Sandusky of sexual assault quit school because of intense bullying surrounding these allegations.
Here to discuss this is one of the country`s leading forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Michael Welner, chairman of the forensic panel and associate professor of psychiatry at NYU School of Medicine. I love having you here, Dr. Welner. You`re one of my favorite guests that we`ve had her over the past couple of years that we`ve been on the air.
MICHAEL WELNER, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: I love talking to you, you know, you`re a person. This is one of the only programs that I would do because one has an opportunity to tackle these unthinkable issues but they make sense. They make sense with someone like you, because you are like so many folks who would watch television as opposed to someone who`s up in a bubble.
And it`s my pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Thank you so much. It`s been a pleasure having you on so many times. I appreciate it very much.
Let`s talk about this kid. This poor child allegedly abused, we know. Then bullied in school for making his mother actually made it public. Talk about blaming the victim, the child had to leave school. What is that about with these kids who would bully somebody like him? Don`t they realize it could happen to them?
WELNER: Well, one of the important lessons of the Sandusky, Second Mile and Penn State tragedy, is that unlike other sexual assaults that you`ll hear about, always remember it`s a process. And the sexual assault occurs near the end.
BEHAR: Yes.
WELNER: What do I mean when I say that?
BEHAR: Yes, what do you mean?
WELNER: A kid gets targeted and then trust gets engendered in the child, and then the child gets pulled in to be emotionally dependent and then isolated and then sexualized but it always happens with a controlled silence. Silence in the child, silence in everyone around and so that we are looking at a victim, who unlike more victims is more invested in his own silence than perhaps even Sandusky. And that`s how Sandusky worked him over. That`s peculiar to these predatory grooming kinds of behaviors that are fundamental to the serial predatory pedophile.
BEHAR: And you would consider him a serial pedophile.
WELNER: I think that the record demonstrates at least eight complaints that we know about --
BEHAR: Right.
WELNER: -- extending over a period of time with someone who had the capacity to control his environment. We`ll talk about that I suppose in a minute, the idea of enforcing silence. If we have eight so far, let`s see where this tally goes. I would expect that based on professional experience to rise.
BEHAR: How do they exactly enforce the silence, though? Do they threaten the child?
WELNER: Again --
BEHAR: Emotional.
WELNER: The process -- and again, this is what distinguishes this kind of sexual assault from other sex assault cases that we have. It`s not just the process in which the child is groomed but the protectors are groomed.
Imagine the parents and how much guilt and sadness they experience over not being able to protect their children. We must appreciate that the seduction, that the persuasiveness, that the verbal skills, the manipulation of the predator, who uses the Penn State, who uses the entree from the athletes and everyone calling him "Coach" and everyone who builds him up as an icon, all that comes together as part of a second step before anything gets sexual. Not just in engendering trust with the victim but with the parents, with the institution that says, I would never leave my child alone with anybody but I would leave him alone with Jerry Sandusky.
And that`s part of the entire process.
BEHAR: Yes. And the child was quoted by the mother as saying, "I couldn`t say no to Coach Sandusky. I couldn`t say no."
WELNER: Yes, yes, yes.
BEHAR: Let`s listen to what Sandusky said about the kid. Let`s watch for a second; you`ve heard this probably.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY SANDUSKY, FORMER PENN STATE COACH: I have horsed around with kids. I have showered after workouts. I -- I have hugged them and I have touched their leg without intent of sexual contact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He seems to think that what he does is ok. Where is his head?
WELNER: We, in forensic psychiatry and psychology, use a term called "cognitive distortion". It`s very important for all of us to understand what that`s about. A cognitive distortion is a way someone like Sandusky in this Costas interview explains their behavior to manage impressions. "We were just horsing around." It`s what people do. It`s what athletes do.
Or to maintain a certain desirability that hey, if you want to be like an athlete, this is what we do. You know, you have come in the shower and just be part of the whole experience. And what does Sandusky or someone else like him do to themselves? They look at children different from how we look at them.
I think this is a way we can pull in this whole Second Mile significance. One, children --
BEHAR: The charity.
WELNER: -- are sexual beings. We don`t look at them that way. They look at them that way. Sex is ordinary.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
WELNER: Three, the world is a dangerous place. What a better way to underscore that than with an institution to protect wayward children. And they need to be put in their place and the offender has the entitlement to do so but can`t control his urges, as if it`s someone who cheats on a diet.
This is the mindset of a cognitive distortion that manages the impression, not only your impression and Bob Costas` impression but their own impression to say, you know what, it`s not really that big a deal.
BEHAR: Is it possible for him to go through that whole process you`re describing when he was allegedly raping the child and somebody did see that happen? Does he really think that is normal behavior? I can see why he can rationalize horsing around but a rape? Can he go that far in his thinking?
WELNER: You call it "rape", I call it "rape". He says, "Sex is ordinary. I love children. We`re horsing around in the shower."
BEHAR: He knows that`s wrong. He knows that that hurts a child.
(CROSSTALK)
WELNER: He convinces himself. And part of how he convinces himself is because, hey, he`s Coach Sandusky from Second Mile. Look at how many children he`s saved. Look at how many lives he`s had a good influence on.
BEHAR: Yes.
WELNER: He`s entitled to use children to his own comfort because he`s educating them in a world that`s a dangerous place. You and I find that to be foul, but in order to understand how a rational sex offender looks at these choices, as life-style choices, this is how the predatory pedophile approaches the world and the children around them.
BEHAR: Let me read you a quote from this autobiography, very ironically called "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story". He says "Pretending has always been part of me. I`ve loved trying to do the right things to hopefully make a difference in kids` lives and maybe make things better off for them." Something you`re saying. "I`ll never regret being called a `great pretender`."
What does he mean by that? Tell me.
WELNER: I don`t think that Jerry Sandusky envisioned that this would happen.
BEHAR: That he would get caught, you mean.
WELNER: I don`t think that he envisioned this happening because he was put -- this is what distinguishes this case from other predatory pedophile cases -- people who have made comparisons to the Catholic Church, those are appropriate comparisons because unlike other situations, you have an institution whose icon everyone is invested, for good reason, in protecting.
People should love their church. They should love their priests, like you mentioned before about Father Ritter. They should see them as benevolent people.
So under other circumstances you see Sandusky wrestling with a child in the shower, you say what are you doing? But if he`s the coach, just wrestling.
BEHAR: Just horsing around.
WELNER: Just horsing around. People are invested in maintaining that. And he knows it and hew exploits it. That`s how a predator and the icon that is college football come together to enable someone to go so long without being detected and when detected, stopped.
BEHAR: So there`s a collusion also then between him and, let`s say, this Paterno and those people, the president of the school, et cetera, to protect the institution. And they both -- tell me where that`s going.
WELNER: My professional appraisal on this is that, look, he not only grooms the parents and grooms the children; he grooms the institution. But at some point, when you see anal rape going on in the shower or complaint of oral sex, that`s a 2 by 4 to the head.
BEHAR: Exactly.
WELNER: You can no longer deny the obvious. Not only did Sandusky maintain his standing within Penn State, he was out recruiting as recently as this year in South Carolina. And who`s the head of recruiting? McQueary, the very guy who discovers him in the shower empowers him --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Oh I just got like chills.
WELNER: -- empowers him to be an ambassador for Penn State among young people who are potentially a target population.
BEHAR: After he has watched that happen and did nothing.
WELNER: Yes. And so that --
BEHAR: He knows -- he knows he`s guilty that he`s a terrible pedophile and still he did that.
WELNER: Yes. So that`s a person who`s gone beyond a judgment call. That`s a person who`s made a conscious decision to say, you know what, this is where I will cast my lot. I will protect the financial interests of the institution. And I will exploit him as an icon to benefit the institution even though I know my silence is going to actually endanger -- no exaggeration -- endanger the people that I did not protect because I fulfilled my legal duty.
BEHAR: Yes.
WELNER: Fulfilled my legal duty.
BEHAR: Yes. There`s this whole situation there where the police -- all of the people in charge did not call the police, did not do anything, let this continue. I mean, it`s a mob mentality we`re talking about almost there.
WELNER: Well, you know that I`ve been researching criminal depravity for a long time.
BEHAR: Yes, oh you have a depravity scale. Yes.
WELNER: But I also feel -- the depravity scale and that`s what most folks are familiar with. However, there is evil in this world that has nothing to do with crime. Ask yourself as you reflect on the notion of the right thing to do.
BEHAR: Yes.
WELNER: What can we say about someone who`s broken no law but who saw an anal rape taking place of someone who was under the control of another and who would therefore be victimized in the future and made a choice to do nothing, knowing that that attacking would continue to occur. Is that everyday evil? Because you`re not going to throw someone in jail over that.
BEHAR: I would say, yes.
WELNER: And that`s why Paterno is gone.
BEHAR: That`s why he`s gone and why this McQueary guy should be gone. Every one of them should be gone. And this guy -- this Sandusky should be in jail for the rest of his life.
WELNER: He shouldn`t be out on bail, right. He`s out on bail.
BEHAR: Well, that`s another joke.
WELNER: He`s out on bail.
BEHAR: That`s another joke.
Ok, thank you so much, Dr. Welner always a pleasure.
WELNER: It`s good to see you.
BEHAR: It`s good to see you. Maybe I`ll see you in my next life. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Demi Moore has finally announced that she`s ending her six year marriage to Ashton Kutcher whose cheating and tweeting allegedly did him in. It`s not known if she`s dating -- if she`s dating anyone yet but I hear he`s been canoodling with Betty White.
With me now to talk about this and other pop culture in the news are Fran Drescher, actress and author "Being Wendy"; and Fuller and editor-in- chief of HollywoodLife.com; and comedian Jessica Kirson. Ok, he allegedly cheated on her two months ago. What took her so long? Wouldn`t you have dumped him already, Fran?
FRAN DRESCHER, ACTRESS: You know it`s not easy to break up a marriage. I mean, there`s obviously love mixed with hurt and pain and family involved. And I think that you try and leave no stone unturned before you give up and you walk away from it. It`s a huge decision.
BEHAR: I know it is. I know, it`s so sad. But Jessica is crying, she can`t take it.
JESSICA KIRSON, COMEDIAN: I`m sorry.
BEHAR: What about the threesomes, I bet they miss those. Bonnie, tell us about those.
BONNIE FULLER, PRESIDENT AND EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: Well, she`s laughing even harder. I don`t know, were you there?
BEHAR: Yes. With you.
FULLER: Well -- speak for yourself. Apparently, there`s a lot of allegations that they had an open marriage. In fact, Chelsea Handler last week spoke out and said it was an open secret.
BEHAR: How does she know?
FULLER: And well, exactly. I wonder how she knows but apparently they were having threesomes, and at least that`s the allegations and the thing is Demi was ok about that except she didn`t like it when he turned them into twosomes and she wasn`t there.
Now who knows whether it`s true when she gave out her statement after the divorce was announced she said that she took certain vows sacred. The question is did she take fidelity was that the sacred vow or fidelity where you`re together in the threesome.
KIRSON: Yes, I feel like if you open it up, you can`t close it whenever you want. I mean, it`s like it`s open, you know once a guy starts sleeping with other women, it -- it opens it up.
BEHAR: But can you back off from a threesome also, once you go into a threesome, can you then do a single?
KIRSON: Single? That`s masturbation?
BEHAR: I know. I realize what I said.
FULLER: I think marriage counselors we`ve spoken to said threesomes are pretty hard thing to deal with in a marriage and that -- and that often --
BEHAR: People get jealous.
FULLER: Yes. And it`s a desperate measure --
BEHAR: I would do a threesome if the party was a personal shopper.
Now listen, what about the open relationship idea? What do you make of that? That didn`t work in the `60s, do you remember?
DRESCHER: I personally don`t like the open relationship thing. But, you know, to each his own. I mean it worked for them for six years, I guess.
BEHAR: It didn`t even work for Jean Paul Sartre (ph) and Simone De Beauvoir (ph). Why is it going to work for Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore?
DRESCHER: Yes.
FULLER: It didn`t work for Jane Fonda either.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, it didn`t work for her, it never works.
KIRSON: You guys are much more famous than I. I mean, you know we know nothing about what really went -- there could be like donkeys in there. We have no idea. I mean, there could be foursomes, tens, you who knows.
BEHAR: Yes.
KIRSON: Really.
(CROSSTALK)
FULLER: They have great --
BEHAR: Let`s go to another story. Lady Gaga may be the biggest pop star on the planet but she`s still down-to-earth enough to stay at her parents` home in New York and to give her dad 50 percent of her earnings. Are you listening, Eve Behar?
Ok, who does this -- who does this, Bonnie? Come on.
FULLER: That is one devoted daughter.
BEHAR: Yes.
FULLER: Apparently she does worship the ground her dad walks on and apparently he supported her from day one when she told him I want to be a singer, I want to be star, he let her drop out of college, he supported her. Gave her money for 12 months so that she could pursue her dream and he set her up with records executives.
BEHAR: Wow.
FULLER: So she feels she owes him.
BEHAR: Fran would you give 50 percent of your earnings to anybody?
DRESCHER: Oh well I did to my husband.
BEHAR: Oh that`s a riot.
DRESCHER: But I love and adore my parents. They`re here in the studio right now.
BEHAR: Yes, they are.
DRESCHER: And I -- and you know, Lady Gaga is constantly, you know, revealing herself as a really wonderful, ethical, great woman --
BEHAR: She is a darling girl. I like her.
DRESCHER: -- who stands for, you know, wonderful things, wholesome things. And I really admire her for that. I think that, you know, she is smart enough to realize how much -- how important it is and how lucky she is to have living parents that she can continue to cherish.
BEHAR: Right. She has an apartment that`s available for rent for $1,850, ok. I`m just saying, if anybody is looking, it`s on the Lower Eastside.
More pop culture in just a minute when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel.
Now, a new biography of Frank Sinatra alleges that in 1934, when he was young and broke, he made a porn film. I believe it was called "The Man with the Golden Schmeckel".
Ok, does that surprise you Fran that he would have done that in 1934?
DRESCHER: No, I don`t think so. I mean --
BEHAR: How did he keep it under wraps all those years?
DRESCHER: Well, how do you know it`s true?
BEHAR: Because there`s a print, allegedly he`s in a mask flanked by two naked women --
DRESCHER: In a mask? So how does that -- how do you know it`s him?
BEHAR: Flanked. Like on either side --
DRESCHER: But how do you know it`s him already if there`s a mask? Then, you know, this is --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, this was reported. I only report what I read in the news. So I`m assuming that this is true.
DRESCHER: What you`re reading is a book that said it but that doesn`t mean it`s true.
FULLER: I don`t know if it`s true, but I mean, listen. This is the middle of the Great Depression. It was desperate times. And I mean porn film in 1934 is probably not what we think of as a porn film now. I mean it was probably, you know, a little racy.
(CROSSTALK)
KIRSON: But that just covers his face. Hello.
BEHAR: They were having sex --
DRESCHER: How do you know it`s him.
KIRSON: No, he had the women break his legs.
BEHAR: I don`t know. It was him. They say it was him.
DRESCHER: I don`t believe it.
KIRSON: It was him and it was hot. No.
BEHAR: But I mean it could be a ploy to sell books but he managed to keep it a secret. I think that`s incredible.
FULLER: Listen we kept President Kennedy -- everything he did secret for years and years. So why wouldn`t this stay secret.
(CROSSTALK)
DRESCHER: -- if it`s true? I challenge the author.
BEHAR: Next up, some Florida parents are outraged that a Hooters waitress was brought in to speak to students on career day at a special needs elementary school.
We did a story similar to this on "The View" the other day about a woman who is a porn star reading for free, giving her time volunteering and people were sort of outraged at it. What do you think about that?
KIRSON: I think it`s unbelievable. What did she go and talk to them and talk about her breasts? It`s really hard working somewhere where I have to show my breasts all the time and like I have to carry chicken and I just feel really unsafe. You should work hard in school. It was "Take your Hooters to Work Day". I mean, what --
BEHAR: Go ahead Bonnie.
FULLER: It`s so surprising. Florida is one of the most conservative states. So it`s hard to imagine that this is who they booked for career day and that they couldn`t get anybody who had a different sort of --
BEHAR: But the kids don`t know what she did. They`re not -- these are elementary school kids with special needs, I`m sure they didn`t know she worked at Hooters.
FULLER: I mean she was talking about her job.
DRESCHER: Wait, did she work in Hooters or was she a porn star?
BEHAR: That was a different story. That was another girl from another state. I don`t remember the state.
KIRSON: She wants to be a porn star but she got stuck at Hooters.
BEHAR: Her name was Sasha Grey in California. She was an ex porn star. We had her on "The View". She`s a beautiful girl. And she was reading to the kids and the parents were outraged.
But they don`t know that. They`re little kids. Why do they have to know your resume, right?
FULLER: I think it`s a little different on career day because the whole point of career day is to talk about your career.
BEHAR: She`s a waitress. What`s so bad about being a waitress?
FULLER: Nothing`s bad about being a waitress. But I mean --
DRESCHER: Well, Hooters is a family restaurant.
BEHAR: Hooters is a family restaurant.
FULLER: Well, Justin Bieber did go there.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: All right. I got to go. Thank you.
DRESCHER: People don`t have anything better to do, I think --
BEHAR: Than talk about this?
DRESCHER: -- than to put down -- yes. Joy, what are you doing? You`re contributing to the problem.
BEHAR: Not for long.
Fran`s new children`s book, "Being Wendy" is in stores now.
Go to Jessicakirson.com to see what she`s doing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: When he was growing up, Robin Williams was a self-described shy, quiet kid. But just like dabbling in lesbianism, it was just a phase.
ROBIN WILLIAMS, ACTOR: Wow.
BEHAR: The Oscar-winning actor and comedian is currently starring on Broadway in "Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo," which I saw, and it`s great. You should go see it. And he`s here with me now. Robin Williams. Applause, applause. OK.
So I came to see you in the play.
WILLIAMS: Dabbling in lesbianism. I mean, what are you, sisters of Sappho, unite. Now. Dabbling in lesbianism. Are you a cunning linguist? Call this number.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You know, a lot of women do just --
WILLIAMS: Dabble.
BEHAR: They dabble.
WILLIAMS: And a lot of men do, too, but they go, hey, I didn`t perform a homosexual act. No, Elton John is a homosexual act. You just blew that guy. It`s OK. I`m dabbling. You`re dabbling. Dabbling where? I don`t want to know.
BEHAR: There`s another thing that`s going on. A bunch of lesbian mothers. They`re really married to men in the suburbs. Are cheating on their husbands with women and then going back. It`s like the opposite of what men do.
WILLIAMS: Well, welcome. Fair play.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know.
WILLIAMS: Mary, where were you? Guess what? We both like vagina.
BEHAR: That could get them together in a way.
WILLIAMS: In a weird way, that could bring them together, going where were you?
BEHAR: Tell everybody how I got you on the show. Because you`re a big coup. Or as --
WILLIAMS: I`m glad you --
BEHAR: One time, I`ve got to tell you this. Merv Griffin was introducing Ava Gabor, and he said one of the biggest coups in the neighborhood.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: And a warm hand on her opening, ladies and gentlemen.
BEHAR: That`s a great story.
WILLIAMS: That`s like Queen Victoria. She wrote a book called "Balls I Have Held." Talking about great parties she --
BEHAR: Really?
WILLIAMS: I don`t now. Oh, I held a lovely ball the other day, and it was Albert. Oh, stop. You got me to come on the show because they had a thing after Bengal Tiger doing -- for Broadway Cares. And you were bidding for coming up on stage to take a picture with the crew -- with all of us on the cast. And you paid 600 bucks. And for that, I`ll do your show.
BEHAR: I basically bribed you.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: But for a charity.
WILLIAMS: For a charity.
BEHAR: But I really appreciate you coming. Because you don`t do a lot of TV.
WILLIAMS: No.
BEHAR: You`re a big movie star.
WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: You are. We were just going over some of your movies. You`ve done incredible movies, Robin.
WILLIAMS: Yes, there have been some interesting ones.
BEHAR: What was your fave?
WILLIAMS: I think "Dead Poets" was probably my favorite, just to get started with the idea of doing a movie that people treated as more than a movie. I once met a guy who said, I gave up my job at Sears and became a teacher because of you. I went, I hope things are going well.
BEHAR: I wonder.
WILLIAMS: yes. And then "Awakenings" and "Fisher King." And then the animation, "Aladdin," it`s always fun because it`s so much fun to do.
BEHAR: And "Popeye."
WILLIAMS: "Popeye" was great. It was just weird, we got to the end of the movie and they ran out of money. They pulled the plug and all the special effects people left. And it was a bit like Ed Wood. Shelley Duvall is in the water with an octopus with nobody to run the octopus, and she`s going, oh, help. And the octopus tentacles are going -- oh, help.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: And I`m joking, but Robert Evans (ph) says, and he`s a little bit coked up at the time, going, how do we end the movie? How do we end the movie? And I`m going, well, I could walk on the water like Jesus. He went, yes, great idea. We ended up doing it in the movie. He was like, yes, let`s do that. That would be great. Get him off me! I never did any blow. I did a little toot, but never any blow.
BEHAR: What about "Awakenings," that movie about dead people -- no, they were not dead.
WILLIAMS: They weren`t dead.
BEHAR: They were not dead, what was it?
WILLIAMS: That`s called get up.
BEHAR: They were like catatonic.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, they suffered from a disease called encephalitis lethargica, which was like a flu that swept through Europe and America and it rendered people -- and they thought they were catatonic. They thought they weren`t conscious, but the truth is they were -- it had attacked the lower functions, but they were actually aware, but like in almost like a dream state. Billy Connolly said they should have called the movie, "Get up, wake up, you." And the weird thing is, a lot of them went under when they were like 16, and then they -- Oliver brought them back out with this drug called l-dopamine when they were like in their 80s. But a lot of them thought they woke up when they were 16 and thought they were 16-year-old boys again, and immediately started hey, how are you? That scene wasn`t in the movie.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I don`t know if you can pixelate that.
WILLIAMS: What`s he doing now? That`s not mine, Mr. Wiener. That`s not mine.
BEHAR: I was just thinking of him, too. Isn`t that funny? I free associated right to him.
WILLIAMS: It`s easy to do. Even Freud`s going, take anything off the top shelf.
BEHAR: You know what he did, right?
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. Supposedly he said someone hacked his Twitter account and they got a picture of him in tighty whities, but he`s going -- I don`t know -- he`s basically saying, was it really well endowed? No, it`s not mine.
BEHAR: Well, you know, Whoopi today was talking about it, and she was saying you could Photoshop anything. He could have been in trousers and they just put him in that -- do you think that could have happened?
WILLIAMS: Photoshop? Photoshop? Then why not put a smiley face on it? Oh, look. It`s little rumple foreskin. What are you doing?
BEHAR: But they basically could have done that. They could have, you know--
WILLIAMS: They could have done 100 different things. They could have actually had (inaudible) or made it slightly -- two of them. Which would be like, wow.
BEHAR: But the thing about him is that he was tweeting all these young girls. Maybe that`s a mistake.
WILLIAMS: Just a touch.
BEHAR: I mean, you are a congressman.
WILLIAMS: There`s nothing that goes unnoticed in this age. You are a congressman. And the idea of like, don`t do that. I only tweeted once. I tweeted "I`m on the road." And I went, that`s it, I`m done.
BEHAR: That`s it.
WILLIAMS: Because the next tweet is "I know, I`m right behind you." Twitter leads to stalkers.
BEHAR: Exactly.
WILLIAMS: But there`s people who are masters of -- people who are masters of tweets, like Steve Martin, Albert Brooks, Garry Shandling. They know. And it`s great short form comedy.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s true.
WILLIAMS: But you can`t imagine Shakespeare tweeting to be or not to be, smiley face.
BEHAR: No. But speaking of that, I took a picture with you one time that if that got out -- look at this picture.
WILLIAMS: What is the picture?
BEHAR: Look at that. Can you see it? That`s us on the left.
WILLIAMS: Wow. Yes.
BEHAR: And I forgot that I did that. I molested you at Comic Relief.
WILLIAMS: That`s why I`m here.
BEHAR: So it wasn`t just Broadway Cares.
WILLIAMS: And that was your hand, right?
BEHAR: Yes, it was.
WILLIAMS: Hey, Manuel, are we having a good day? Let`s do this again. Are we going to tweet? Why, I only have one hand left. Maybe not.
That was quite a lot of typing in the early days online on the porn sites was so bad because people could only use one hand. What are you doing?
BEHAR: Let`s watch a little piece of your stand-up.
WILLIAMS: Oh, cool.
BEHAR: OK?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: And you Twitter. Twitter. Or tweeting. It`s not the root word. It`s not twit. It`s tweet. OK, cool. Is it rude to Twitter during sex, to go omg, omgwtf, zzz, is that rude? Is there something called clittering where you play with a little button on your Blackberry? What are you doing? I`m clittering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So you don`t tweet anymore?
WILLIAMS: No. I mean, I think there should be a thing of either like a little application on your phone that if you try to take a picture of your genitals, a little cock blocker app, the phone goes no. Like a moral GPS. They should have a moral GPS like a moral compass, a moral GPS that will go "up ahead, a girl the same age as your daughter. Reroute."
BEHAR: Very good.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Moving away now. Do not talk to her. Warning. Warning.
BEHAR: That would be good.
WILLIAMS: Moral GPS. That would be like something that just goes do not do that now. This will make the headlines bad for you.
BEHAR: Now, what do you think about Sarah Palin and Donald Trump had a pizza dinner the other night?
WILLIAMS: That`s a Democratic wet dream.
BEHAR: It is.
WILLIAMS: That`s like do it, go for it. My lawyer had a great line about Donald Trump. He said he was a guy who woke up on third and thought he hit a triple.
BEHAR: They said that about George Bush too.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, that whole thing--
BEHAR: The lawyer didn`t make that up, Robin.
WILLIAMS: No. Oh, no. It`s like the line that was out there about everybody. And it was like that with her when she wrote a book. I went looking for it and I couldn`t find it. I looked in fantasy, I looked in fiction. I wasn`t--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But here is the thing about her. Because she went into New York City and she was wearing a Jewish star. Look at this. This is a picture of her with a Jewish star on.
WILLIAMS: That`s one of the signs of the apocalypse.
BEHAR: But you know what? If you want to be Jewish in New York, you have to do this outfit. See that? The Hasidic picture? There it is.
WILLIAMS: It`s a new version of Yentl called rentl. She has payot`s envy.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: How about this one? She wants to go to the Muslim community. She should go with a chador (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Burka girls gone wild. Where are you going, to the Gaza strip club? What are you doing?
BEHAR: And then we have if she goes to the "Jersey Shore."
WILLIAMS: This is there. Sneaky. That`s another character. What`s her -- hey, look, it`s sneaky. I can`t believe she came here. More poof. More poof.
BEHAR: Did you see what happened to Snooki? She was in Florence and she banged into a police car and they had to take her in.
WILLIAMS: She banged into a --
BEHAR: Yes. And the cops are in the hospital. She`s a menace to society.
WILLIAMS: Her hair hurt them. They go -- [ speaking foreign language ] -- she broke the window on the car. The hair went into the car, broke the window. Look, it`s the soundtrack from the "Wizard of Oz." What is she -- who`s in the hospital, the cops?
BEHAR: The cops were in the hospital.
WILLIAMS: She ran into a cop car?
BEHAR: Yes. They were actually escorting her and she ran into their car.
WILLIAMS: She ran into their car?
BEHAR: Yes. She`s a piece of work.
WILLIAMS: Well, she deployed the air bags already. Good night. Thank you.
BEHAR: Now, another thing that`s happening is I don`t know if you know about this, Glenn Beck is going off Fox. Did you know that?
WILLIAMS: No.
BEHAR: Yes, he`s gone. Do you like him? Do you ever watch him?
WILLIAMS: I never saw him. I just saw there used to be this guy, Reverend Gene Scott, which used to do wild stuff, but he was just -- he would just sit there with a little special coffee cup and just be -- he would just -- I`m going to do this again. I`m going to diagram the Bible. Basically as if the Bible were written by people on mushrooms. And he would go, I`m going to read this passage of the Bible again and again until I get $20,000.
BEHAR: Really?
WILLIAMS: Yeah. But when I watch Glenn Beck, he would just go off on things. You want to have that "Face in the Crowd" moment, which I guess he finally had where he just said and said stuff that people went, OK, that`s a little too crazy for us.
BEHAR: Even Roger Ailes said it was too much.
WILLIAMS: Yes. At that point, you`re going, you know, even old Germans are going, you must relax.
BEHAR: We have a lot more to talk about.
WILLIAMS: It`s time for us to play (inaudible).
BEHAR: Robin is staying for two more segments.
WILLIAMS: Two more segments!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do I do? Do I just stand here like an object?
WILLIAMS: No. You do an eclectic celebration of a dance. You do Fosse, Fosse, Fosse. You do Martha Graham, Martha Graham, Martha Graham. Or Twyla, Twyla, Twyla. Or Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd. Or Madonna, Madonna, Madonna. But you keep it all inside.
All right. Just work on that. I`ll be right back. It`s looking wonderful, though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s the brilliant Robin Williams in "Birdcage," one of my favorites.
WILLIAMS: (inaudible), Robert Wilson? You`re one of the people who say yes, you`re Robert Wilson!
BEHAR: I`ll never forget. What`s his name?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: So what about Lady Gaga? Do you do Lady Gaga?
WILLIAMS: I finally was watching the Monster concert the other night. The amazing thing is she`s a great musician and has a great voice. I was just saying, you don`t need the solar hat. But she`s a great performer. She`s just in that phase of now all this stuff. And eventually you`re just going to just see her playing the piano and just blowing the doors off the place.
BEHAR: But she has a style.
WILLIAMS: Oh, totally.
BEHAR: Is it like Madonna? She gets accused of being a ripoff here and there.
WILLIAMS: It`s just -- I mean, if the people are ready for, I guess - - it`s big time. I mean, she does stuff -- she wore an outfit that I went, wow, you`re wearing an entire vagina. That is -- she came on stage --
BEHAR: What about the meat dress?
WILLIAMS: I just saw the one that she wore on Saturday Night Live, which looked like -- even dead Egyptians went, it`s too much.
BEHAR: Mubarak.
WILLIAMS: You don`t need this. You`re reflecting. The light is reflecting. It`s crazy.
BEHAR: What was I going to say to you? She -- I had interviewed her on the other show I do. And she was saying that she was bullied as a child.
WILLIAMS: You can see that.
BEHAR: Were you?
WILLIAMS: Yes, I was picked upon briefly for -- like sixth grade wasn`t good. I was called leprechaun, which was kind of like -- it`s great if you have a pot of gold, but if you don`t, screwed.
BEHAR: Why were you called leprechaun?
WILLIAMS: I was little.
BEHAR: Oh, because you were little.
WILLIAMS: Little.
BEHAR: And hairy.
WILLIAMS: I wasn`t hairy back then.
BEHAR: You weren`t that hairy then?
WILLIAMS: Then I`d be called rhesus. What do you mean? Ah, ah, ah - - I was actually hit on by Coco the gorilla.
BEHAR: I can see that.
WILLIAMS: She tried to take me in the back room, and the trainer said, if she takes you back there, I can`t help you. And she`s like -- yes. She wanted to take me in the back there. I was like, she was going, mm, nice, I like him.
BEHAR: You`re so funny all the time. Not all the time.
WILLIAMS: Not all the time, no.
BEHAR: Not in bed with a woman, right?
WILLIAMS: No. Is this thing on? You were great, but did you see the first show? You know -- ah, ah. Come on, play with it, talk to it.
BEHAR: You`re really --
WILLIAMS: I`m going to have an orgasm as Chris Walken. I`m arriving now. Was it good for me? Yes.
BEHAR: You know, it was really interesting to see you on stage. That was the first play you`ve ever done?
WILLIAMS: No. I did "Waiting for Godot" at Lincoln Center, which was great.
BEHAR: Really? Was that a commercial success?
WILLIAMS: As always. It was a musical. We called it "Waitin`." No, it was with F. Murray Abraham, Steve Martin, Bill Irwin (ph). It was a pretty crazy production. It`s written to be like two comics in purgatory.
BEHAR: I saw it.
WILLIAMS: You saw the one--
BEHAR: I felt like I was in purgatory.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No, I`m kidding. It was good. I liked it.
WILLIAMS: But it was all -- it`s all -- it`s meant to be like -- it`s like Laurel and Hardy in hell.
BEHAR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: What do we do now? Don`t go. And another pile of dung.
BEHAR: You kept calling him Godot. Now I remember the play. "Waiting for Godot." Why are you --
WILLIAMS: Because that`s how I think the pronunciation that Beckett wanted.
BEHAR: Oh.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: Everybody else says Godot.
WILLIAMS: Some.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: The French don`t. They say Godot. The Germans, Godot.
BEHAR: What do you think of that case in France with that Strauss- Kahn guy?
WILLIAMS: I think it`s just pretty -- I think--
BEHAR: Why do they like maids? Schwarzenegger likes maids. Strauss- Kahn attacked a maid. This other, this other bargain (ph), this other Egyptian attacked a maid.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: At the Pierre hotel.
WILLIAMS: I think it`s that weird entitlement. I think it`s almost medieval in a way. They think of you as a servant. You`re mine. You know, it`s--
BEHAR: You`re mine.
WILLIAMS: I mean, that`s insane, but you think -- someone said that he was also taking a Cialis, so he thought hey -- and someone -- or that he interpreted that she was like a call girl doing night maid -- call girls don`t bring mints. Hello. No, you know you want me. You want me in the worst way, which is in person. You want a hairy old, very wealthy French man, huh? I control the euro. I don`t care. I`ve got to go home.
BEHAR: That`s right.
WILLIAMS: It`s nuts.
BEHAR: It`s nuts.
WILLIAMS: But with Arnold, you know, with Arnold, you know, first of all, when he married Maria, he was trying to create the uber-Kennedy.
BEHAR: That`s right.
WILLIAMS: And for years, I thought he was sucking the Kennedy out of her. Slowly but surely. I`m finally becoming a Kennedy by assimilation. And she just got thinner and thinner and thinner.
BEHAR: Yes. And what about ten years, he was sleeping with this housekeeper, in their bed for ten years.
WILLIAMS: Ooh.
BEHAR: And the housekeeper, listen to this, would dress up in Maria`s clothes and put on her makeup and her jewelry and everything.
WILLIAMS: Even Freud at that point goes, new dealer. Even a therapist goes, here`s your money back. I`ve got to go.
BEHAR: That really is a dealbreaker, right?
WILLIAMS: Ooh. Big-time.
BEHAR: And what`s up with Schwarzenegger, that he thought that was OK?
WILLIAMS: He was like, I`d get away with it as long as I could right now. And my uncle used to be -- he wasn`t in the SS. He was just in catering. Kurt Waldheimer`s (ph), Waldheimer`s (ph) is you forget everything before 1945. I was in the forest, hiding with squirrels. I was a nutsy (ph). What are you saying? I never did steroids, I was just on severe vitamins. I could open a door with my nipple. What are you doing now to me? Why do people think that I wouldn`t do this now? The weird thing. Look at all my history.
BEHAR: We`ll have more with Robin in a moment.
WILLIAMS: Be right back.
BEHAR: Don`t leave.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Don`t leave.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the crazy and funny Robin Williams. This is your dramatic Broadway debut, even though "Godot," "Waiting for Godot"--
WILLIAMS: Godot or Godot.
BEHAR: That was sort of dramatic, but it was funny.
WILLIAMS: It was under Broadway, it was near Broadway.
BEHAR: Oh, but this is your first time on Broadway, the "Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo."
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: And you play a tiger.
WILLIAMS: Yes. I play basically a tiger and then become the spirit of the tiger after that. And it`s pretty crazy, I get to kind of evolve quickly over the period of the play. It`s pretty wild. The play ends very kind of dramatically and very kind of quiet and intense. The thing that sometimes you get that moment where the end of the play I`m saying rules of the hunt, don`t move, don`t make a sound. And at that point, a cell phone goes off, and it`s the soundtrack to "Deliverance." Everything in my body just wants to go, it`s going up your ass, you`re going to squeal like a fax machine. And you`re going no, you`re in a play, can`t do it, can`t say anything.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The audience when they talk, or the candy (ph) or--
WILLIAMS: No, you can`t really. I mean, most of -- sometimes you look out and you see people -- people take pictures sometimes in the middle -- even though they say do not do this, ladies and gentlemen, but still people go, (inaudible). But that`s the weird thing, you`ve just got to stay with the play, because the play, you know, if you break out of it, it ruins it for people.
BEHAR: Do you get any -- we have to do this now, I`m sorry to have to break into this conversation, but I`m going to be doing something for the--
WILLIAMS: ASPCA.
BEHAR: ASPCA, but you can see Robin Williams in the play "Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo" on Broadway right now. So go and see it.
But before we go, I just want to mention that tomorrow I`m appearing at a ASPCA cat abduction event here in New York. Robin, you can play a tiger, help me out with this, do the sound effects. According to the ASPCA, four million cats enter shelters every year. Now, I`m a cat owner. My cat`s name, Benito Pussolini.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
BEHAR: And I`m partnering--
WILLIAMS: It just stands in the balcony, going "que face?" (ph). Hey, everyone, we`ll have a clean litter box.
BEHAR: And partnering with the ASPCA and Fresh Step Litter to try to get as many cats adopted as we can. So head to the Fresh Step Facebook page and click like. And if you do it by July 31st, Fresh Step will donate $1 up to $100,000 to ASPCA to help cat adoption programs like this one. So if you`re in New York tomorrow, come see me at the ASPCA adoption center, 424 East 92nd Street at 1:30 p.m. And at night, go see Robin Williams in "Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo."
WILLIAMS: "Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo."
BEHAR: Make it an all-feline Friday.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
BEHAR: Isn`t that a beautiful thing?
WILLIAMS: And we segued into pussy.
BEHAR: We actually did.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Thank you so much for coming.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, baby.
BEHAR: He`s wonderful. And thank you all for watching. I hope you had fun tonight. Good night, everybody.
WILLIAMS: Pick up a cat on the way home, ladies and gentlemen. Pick up a cat.
BEHAR: Pick up a cat.
END
