Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
GOP Race Heats Up; Curb Your Anxiety; Interview With Liza Minnelli
Aired November 30, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, with Herman Cain now an afterthought in the campaign, Joy and her political panel look at the budding feud between Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich. Does either candidate have a real shot at pulling an upset in 2012?
Then the hilariously unpredictable Richard Lewis.
Plus we look back at Joy`s interview with the legendary Liza Minnelli.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: With Herman Cain still reassessing his campaign in the wake of affair allegations, the GOP presidential race is shaping up to be a battle between Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich. And as a Democrat, I couldn`t be more thrilled.
With me now to talk about this match-up and their chances against President Obama are Bill Press, radio talk show host and political commentator and Hilary Rosen, CNN political contributor and managing director of SKD Knickerbocker -- whatever that means.
Bill let me start with you. Is it just a matter of time before Cain drops out of the race because he`s still reassessing?
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Come on. Joy, by the way, good to see you and Hilary, too. Look, it`s all over for Herman Cain. There`s nothing to reassess. I mean he started out with 9-9-9. I mean now he needs 911. But I have to tell you, I feel a little sorry for Herman Cain. If only he had waited until his wife was dying of cancer before he had an affair, then he could be number one in the polls today, Joy.
BEHAR: That was a -- those of you who don`t know, that was a direct hit on Newt Gingrich. But I don`t think that the wife was dying of cancer. She was in the hospital but she had a benign something or other. But he did go to the hospital, Newt Gingrich, when she was ill and he told her I want a divorce. So you`re about that.
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Now, he has his daughter out there saying that that whole story --
BEHAR: Gingrich?
ROSEN: -- Gingrich -- that that whole story isn`t true.
PRESS: Yes.
ROSEN: You know that --
BEHAR: Well, who made that story up?
ROSEN: It came out very early on and it was well reported. You know, Newt Gingrich has a long laundry list of why all my personal failings are no longer personal failings. They`re actually advantages.
BEHAR: Right.
ROSEN: And why I should be president.
BEHAR: Right. He can spin anything. What about the family values group? I mean they were pushing Cain, who was the sexual harassment allegations and now the affair. And Gingrich with his sexual peccadilloes over the years. How come they don`t care about that Bill?
PRESS: Well, first of all, it`s unbelievable, right? So these tea baggers are saying, now, look, we`re going to walk away from Herman Cain because he cheated on his wife. So instead, we`re going to go to the guy who cheated on at least two wives that we know about.
I mean you know what the bottom line, I don`t think they stand for anything. They`re just sort of like Newt, they`re willing to look over all of his ethical failings 80 times there were ethics charges filed against him when he was Speaker. He paid a $300,000 fine for his ethical violations as Speaker. They don`t care about that. They just want to beat Obama.
ROSEN: That`s exactly right. The only thing they care about now is beating President Obama and they`re convinced that Mitt Romney is too week a candidate to do it. And they like the fact that Gingrich is in there fighting.
And I think what they`ve seen that over the last few weeks, look, the White House has taken off after Mitt Romney and the Obama campaign has set Mitt Romney in its sights and it`s had an impact. And it`s not only kept Romney`s numbers down in the Republican Party, it`s turned independents against him. And so they are just desperate to find an alternative. And right now, Newt Gingrich is more practiced.
You know, the Cain issue is so interesting because everybody is always looking for like the candidate who is not the life-long politician, right?
BEHAR: Yes, right.
ROSEN: The new fresh face.
BEHAR: Pizza man.
ROSEN: The Pizza Man, the Donald Trump, you know, some savior out there. But you know what, the fact is this is hard work; it`s substantive policy stuff. Herman Cain wasn`t ready, kaput. The life-long politicians tend to do a little better here.
BEHAR: Will the Democrats now go after Newt Gingrich the way they went after Mitt Romney. They`re going to have ads about him now right? Won`t that hurt him?
ROSEN: Oh my God, I mean if we could get lucky enough to have Newt Gingrich be the nominee.
BEHAR: You want it right?
ROSEN: You want it. Of course, you want it.
BEHAR: Do you want it? Wouldn`t you like that Bill?
PRESS: Absolutely. Barney frank said yesterday would that we be so lucky as to have Barney Frank as the nominee.
ROSEN: No, Gingrich.
PRESS: Newt Gingrich, I`m sorry.
BEHAR: They`re very similar somehow.
PRESS: They are. They`re both flip-floppers.
But let me tell you, building on Hilary`s point. Before Democrats have to take on Newt Gingrich, you bet that he`s going to be attacked by Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann and Mitt Romney even started yesterday because they`re afraid that he`s going to pick up where Cain loses in Iowa, and they`re going to try to bring him down.
Let me tell you, he is the ultimate insider, as Hilary knows. He`s the guy that cashed in as speaker and went out and peddled his influence all over Washington, made tons of money. He`s no outsider.
BEHAR: $100 million, I believe he made $100 million as an insider. Don`t people care about these things?
ROSEN: Yes. I don`t know if it was that much. But here`s the thing. The reason why people are liking him because he`s articulate. He actually could stand -- he could debate President Obama pretty well, I think. The problem is he has such a history of saying crazy things and doing crazy things that the American people are not going to judge him on that debate.
BEHAR: Don`t you remember when Ronald Reagan said there you go again and he won the election. Why do you have to be articulate when you`re a Republican? Since when do you have to be articulate?
PRESS: But you know, I love also the fact he`s known as the man with a lot of ideas. He has a lot of ideas, most of them are bad ideas. Like last week, he said he wanted to get rid of child labor laws, right.
BEHAR: What`s that about?
PRESS: So kids could be scrubbing the floors in the schools.
BEHAR: Take over jobs.
ROSEN: Fire all the janitors and put kids in the schools.
PRESS: Put them back in the shoe factories and put them back on the assembly lines, too.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Am I wrong with the fact when Romney was a businessman, he was basically into downsizing and really eliminating jobs? Isn`t that true about Romney`s background?
ROSEN: Well, he was -- he started Bank Capital, it`s a private equity firm and the way you make your money in private equity is you buy undervalued companies and restructure them. What does restructure mean? It means fire half the employees and resell the company as a shrunken business.
BEHAR: He`s not the jobs person.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Can Gingrich sell the American people that he`s a jobs president, Bill?
PRESS: Well, what`s he ever done that create jobs? Nothing.
BEHAR: I don`t know.
PRESS: I mean he`s done a lot to enrich himself but he`s never done anything to create jobs. So I want to say Mitt Romney -- you know, somebody said Mitt Romney looks like to most Americans like the guy that fired you and probably did. As Hilary said, he was all about jobs overseas. And he would and take these companies, shrink them here and move the jobs overseas. And that`s going to catch up with him.
Gingrich has zero record on job creation.
BEHAR: So who is the biggest threat to President Obama? But you know, before you answer that, I want to show you -- I want everybody to see the DNC ad that they`re running about Romney. Let`s run that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two men trapped in one body, Mitt versus Mitt.
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will preserve and protect a woman`s right to choose.
The right next step is to see Roe v Wade overturned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two Mitts willing to say anything.
ROMNEY: We put together an exchange and the President is copying that idea. I`m glad to hear that.
Obama-care is bad news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Ann Coulter was on my show yesterday and she said that she doesn`t mind he`s a flip-flopper because he actually has grown. She said if you look at the early pictures of him he was younger and so he has matured more into a conservative. Do you buy that?
ROSEN: We`re practicing. She`s practicing her general election line. I think people want a politician to stand for something and Mitt Romney doesn`t stand for anything. You ask who is the biggest threat to President Obama? The biggest threat to President Obama is President Obama. Can he sustain this fighting spirit. Can he make people believe he is on their side and over the next year, make progress?
We certainly hope so. Ok. Thank you guys. Bill I have to go. We ran out of time.
PRESS: All right. You`ve got it. See you guys.
ROSEN: Bye Bill.
BEHAR: Ok.
We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Time" magazine now says anxiety might actually be good for you. But can you make a career out of it? We`ll ask comedian Richard Lewis next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Richard Lewis is featured in "Time" magazine`s latest cover story --
RICHARD LEWIS, COMEDIAN: You have me so depressed now.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- about whether or not anxiety is good for, it certainly have been good to him. The man is to anxiety what Lady Gaga is to wearing cold cuts.
LEWIS: Good night, everybody, I`ll be back at midnight, does this work? That was -- who wrote that, did you write that?
BEHAR: No. Somebody else wrote it. Frank Santa Padre.
LEWIS: I know this show is -- hey, I`m on. I know the show is leaving but you`re going to land somewhere else.
BEHAR: The show is leaving.
LEWIS: Because this has been more fun for me than almost any show I`ve done in 40 years.
BEHAR: I know. But we have had more fun on this show than I`ve had anywhere.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: Because of you, it`s because of you. You make people --
BEHAR: No it`s all of us.
LEWIS: No I know you have a great crew and all of that. It`s true but you make people relax. You don`t pressure, you`re not competitive. For me you are, for me you ruin me. You said I don`t speak properly, I don`t enunciate right.
BEHAR: No you enunciate fine. You just said badly instead of bad.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: Yes, you know I did, for -- two years after that, hey, moron. Really and that was a nun. Good night, everybody.
BEHAR: I`m sorry. I have a -- I have a compulsion to correct your grammar.
LEWIS: But you were a teacher, right?
BEHAR: I was a teacher. Yes.
LEWIS: Yes so but you didn`t have to do it on the air, man. I mean, it was humiliating. People think I`m -- they were calling me illiterate.
BEHAR: No but you`re the only one I have ever done that.
LEWIS: So I screw up an adverb, big freaking deal.
BEHAR: But if President Obama was here, I would not correct his English, with you, it`s different. See my point? I knew that you could take it.
LEWIS: All right. You win.
BEHAR: Now what is this you`re like the poster boy for anxiety, aren`t you? You`re in this article, you didn`t write it but you`re quoted in here.
LEWIS: I got a phone call from a "Time" magazine writer.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: And she says, I`m paraphrasing but it was basically, I`m the go-to person --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s right.
LEWIS: -- about anxiety. But there`s a switch on this article, it`s how I can use anxiety in a positive way.
BEHAR: Yes tell me about that. How do you do that?
LEWIS: I lied to her. The whole thing`s a lie.
BEHAR: You think the anxiety --
LEWIS: The whole thing is a scam from my point of view. I`m a wreck. No. It was more about the creative process for me.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: And -- and when I go on stage, I don`t know what I`m going to do.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: So I have -- I have really have like hundreds of hours of stuff and I don`t like to have an act. I`m the act. They don`t like me, good-bye, get a dinner.
BEHAR: Does that happen often?
LEWIS: No. That was mean. Mean. Illiterate and they walk out on him. We`ll be right back on our second segment.
BEHAR: Have you ever -- have you ever worked the Cat Skills? You know what happened --
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: That was the worst show of my life. That was the worst show.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: Let me just dig this.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: No, no. I use anxiety to get -- to work myself up into a ladder so when I get on stage it helps me, it turns me into a funnier guy.
BEHAR: I see.
LEWIS: Now let`s move on to the Concourse.
BEHAR: Ok so what happen to you at the Concourse.
LEWIS: But it`s a great article.
BEHAR: Ok.
LEWIS: And I`m also doing that -- oh we`ll talk about the sex because my wife`s going to leave me.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We`ll talk about sex in the next segment.
LEWIS: Yes because this, I`m a nut case.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: And then in "Playboy", I`m a sex addict.
BEHAR: Right it`s you.
LEWIS: My wife has to be having an affair. She has to be.
BEHAR: It`s that fabulous. That is Richard Lewis.
LEWIS: Oh look at you, you always try to fill in a little word so you can get some free Danish. Do you know what that meant?
BEHAR: I see, you think I`m talking pastry. I know it`s all right.
LEWIS: I`m an idiot. Again, I`m an idiot.
LEWIS: Now what happened to you at the Concourse? Did you dine at the Concourse?
LEWIS: Yes a week before and I -- this is a boast on of people. I sold out Carnegie Hall, got two standing ovations in two and a half hours, ok.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: You hear that bell?
BEHAR: Was that you?
LEWIS: No.
BEHAR: Ok go ahead.
LEWIS: You know what it was, it was a little bit of indigestion. Dig this, my agent says, a lot of money at the Concourse. I don`t play the Cat Skills. Because it`s not my audience.
BEHAR: Yes they`re Jewish.
LEWIS: It`s not because they`re Jewish, because it`s great food and there was 3,000 people. Ok?
BEHAR: Right. Right.
LEWIS: Eating.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: So and I had to do 60 minutes. I had a big check in my back pocket.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: I told the limo guy. And this is -- I wasn`t drunk, this is when I was -- I`ve been sober almost 18 years.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: But back then I have bought a limo and a young actress and friends and champagne, I said, keep the limo running because I`m going to be running out of here.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: And they introduced me as Richard Lewis to 3,000 people, no one said -- not -- not one applause. Here`s what I heard, Harry, where`s my pears. I don`t have pears. Give me that Danish. Give me that Danish, 3,000 people screaming over their entrees.
BEHAR: So how did you do it?
LEWIS: Here is what I did, I had 48 and a half minutes. So I wanted that bread.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: I wanted that bread. But here`s what I learned from it. The owner -- I believe it was the Concourse, a very famous guy.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
LEWIS: He took pictures with me with all his cronies before the show. After the show, I didn`t see him. I bugged. I got not one laugh but I did my 60 minutes.
BEHAR: I think I heard about it. Were you crying?
LEWIS: No, no. No, I was so drunk after the show. But the son sent me a bottle of champagne, which was fabulous. And he wrote a note, "You can`t be all things to all people." And that really meant a lot to me.
BEHAR: I see.
LEWIS: And I got hammered.
BEHAR: But in this particular audience, you were no one to nobody, the way you describe it. I mean, you`re saying no one laughed.
LEWIS: You know, I only use Viagra after I do a show with you. I swear to God, I`ve only used it three times.
BEHAR: You need it for this.
LEWIS: I never --
BEHAR: Let`s play a game. Let`s play a game.
LEWIS: Yes, ok.
BEHAR: I will say a name and you just free associate. Want to do it?
LEWIS: Right.
BEHAR: Michele Bachmann.
LEWIS: How do I look?
BEHAR: Ok, all right. Kim Kardashian?
LEWIS: I don`t get -- Kim Kardashian, I don`t really follow their stories.
BEHAR: She was married for 72 days.
LEWIS: I know oh with the ballplayer.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: Gorgeous and I don`t -- and they live lives like -- that 98.9 percent of the people don`t live.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: And I really don`t give a crap.
BEHAR: Ok, Anthony Weiner.
LEWIS: I -- if he comes back, he should change his last name.
BEHAR: Yes, I agree with that. How about any of the people that are running for president? Are you interested in the Republican debate at all?
LEWIS: I`m interested. I`m a political guy.
BEHAR: Yes so what do you think about Gingrich, he`s coming up in the polls?
LEWIS: It`s going to be a great show on Nickelodeon. It has to be a cartoon.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: And particularly Newt bugs me. I once flew with him across the aisle. This was before he got thrown out of the Speakership.
BEHAR: What do you mean?
LEWIS: I was in first class, he was in first class, he was there he walks in. He`s smart but he makes up -- you think he`s smart.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes that`s right.
LEWIS: But he just makes up at any moment. But he`s so -- he`s smart enough to mangle the language. Is mangle right?
BEHAR: Mangle is correct.
LEWIS: Because I almost said Mengele. You get me so threatened.
BEHAR: Don`t say Mengele.
LEWIS: Did I say Mengele, I didn`t mean that. No, no, he mangles the language to make him seem right. What he really is saying is stupid, ok?
BEHAR: Ok.
LEWIS: So when he came up. And I`m not a socialist. I care about people who have no money and can`t afford to feed their children and send them to school.
BEHAR: Yes, right. That`s right.
LEWIS: Sue me. Sue me. So anyway, it makes me sick what`s going on.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: So he walks up the aisle. And this is years ago. And I wasn`t drunk then either. I said, you know, you`re so articulate, but I don`t believe one word -- he`s sitting next to me.
BEHAR: Yes, that was good.
LEWIS: One word you`ve ever said. And he -- I think he laughed a little bit. And that was it for five hours. I didn`t care because he didn`t care about the poor people or the middle class.
BEHAR: Ok. Don`t you think he`s kind of like Professor Irwin Cory in a certain way?
LEWIS: You know who knows that? You, me and eight drunks, now. He was one of the great comics of all time. Google Irwin Cory, he`s a genius. And he still works.
BEHAR: He was brilliant. He just babbles like these politicians.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And we`ll have more with Richard Lewis and his babbling in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Richard Lewis. So Richard --
LEWIS: By the way, thanks for the first segment.
BEHAR: You`re welcome.
LEWIS: I`m going to take it off my reel in about five minutes.
BEHAR: Listen Richard --
LEWIS: Yes.
BEHAR: What did you write in playboy about sex. What`s the article about?
LEWIS: First of all, it`s the January issue with Lindsay Lohan naked as Marilyn Monroe an homage, I should say.
BEHAR: Oh.
LEWIS: I hear it`s a beautiful shoot. I`m not naked in it.
BEHAR: No, that`s good.
LEWIS: I begged them not to have me naked. They wanted --they would have loved it --
BEHAR: No, they wouldn`t. It`s not "Playgirl" magazine where the gays read that so then they`d like to see a naked guy. "Playboy" is for straight guys and they don`t want to look at a man naked.
LEWIS: Let me tell you right now. I`m not homophobic by any stretch.
BEHAR: No, you`ve dabbled, haven`t you?
LEWIS: No. I`m straight. But if I was naked in any magazine --
BEHAR: Yes.
LEWIS: -- there would be no more homosexuality in the world.
BEHAR: It could wipe it out.
LEWIS: And wipe it out only because a man would go, "A man can look like that?". You know what my wife says?
BEHAR: You know, there are blind homosexuals. So maybe you could appeal to that crowd.
LEWIS: That`s really -- that`s so brilliant. I don`t know -- I think I`m having a heart attack.
BEHAR: All right. Richard --
LEWIS: If I was gay, I`d have to only be with a blind gay man.
BEHAR: I`m going along with your thing that you just said.
LEWIS: But what if the dog said -- ugly -- he`s --
BEHAR: That could happen.
LEWIS: So where were we?
BEHAR: So what is the article about?
LEWIS: "Playboy", I`ve written for "Playboy" before. They have great writers writing. I`m proud to be part of "Playboy". They wanted me to write about sex and about how I feel about sex now, after I got -- after 60. And I wrote an essay about it and there`s --
BEHAR: And what have you found after 60, sex after 60, what have you found?
LEWIS: Well, it`s really a discussion I have with parts of my body describing how I used to feel. Quite frankly, I think -- let me put it to you -- you`re leaving this network anyway --
BEHAR: Soon, yes.
LEWIS: -- right, what`s the difference? You`ll land somewhere else?
BEHAR: Whatever.
LEWIS: Basically, if you`re watching Discovery Channel, a man`s member has its own brain.
BEHAR: Right.
LEWIS: As opposed to -- let`s say you want to -- you don`t want to act out on your wife. Animals do, giraffes, hummingbirds. Hummingbirds don`t because they have intercourse fast and then they drop dead. They don`t have time to commit adultery. They are the nicest of the animal world.
BEHAR: That`s a nice bird.
LEWIS: But they also have premature ejaculation.
BEHAR: The hummingbird does. Who knew? Did you know that?
LEWIS: Did you ever see them have intercourse?
BEHAR: No. That`s true. I`ve never seen birds actually do it.
LEWIS: That`s it, honey? I`m sorry.
BEHAR: All right. But how does that relate to you?
LEWIS: Me? I`m not a hummingbird. Do you think dinosaurs had foreplay? I`m just curious, to get the female dinosaur hot --
BEHAR: They`re extinct so probably they did because most men who want to have a lot of foreplay die young.
LEWIS: Why do you say that?
BEHAR: Because where are they?
LEWIS: They don`t exist. You know why you got me here?
BEHAR: Why?
LEWIS: For me to be Bud Abbott and set you up with these really great lines.
BEHAR: I`m sorry.
LEWIS: Because you`re right. Foreplay bores the hell out of me.
BEHAR: Out of him. Exactly.
LEWIS: I want to have an orgasm and go.
BEHAR: That`s right. And you know what; I just had an orgasm but I have to go.
Thank you so much for coming.
And if you`re in New York, catch Richard Lewis Thursday through Sunday at Caroline`s on Broadway.
We`ll be right back.
What a team we are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And still to come, a look back at one of Joy`s favorite interviews from the past two years with the legendary Liza Minnelli.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Liza Minnelli has an Oscar, an Emmy, a Grammy, and four Tonys. Not only that, she has entertained more gay men than Larry Craig in an airport men`s room.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That song we just heard was Liza performing Beyonce`s "Single Ladies" from "Sex & The City 2". Liza Minnelli joins me now.
LIZA MINNELLI, SINGER/ACTRESS: Thank you, honey.
BEHAR: Welcome to my show, Liza. I`m so thrilled to have you here. And I have to tell you, you stole that movie with that number.
MINNELLI: Oh, well it wasn`t me. It was a wonderful man called Ron Lewis.
BEHAR: That wasn`t you dancing?
MINNELLI: Well, no. It was because of him. I mean he had the girls looking exactly like me. He tipped his hat to my friend Beyonce, but that number was original. I mean all the things that he did in it that were so hot and sexy.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: That`s Ron Lewis.
BEHAR: But you were at the top of your game. I mean you were terrific in that scene.
MINNELLI: Thank you.
BEHAR: Everybody is saying that.
MINNELLI: Thank you.
BEHAR: About how great it is, you know. So was it fun doing this movie?
MINNELLI: Yes!
BEHAR: It was fun?
MINNELLI: It`s great fun. Because, you know, you`re part of something that everybody really likes.
BEHAR: Right.
MINNELLI: You know and that we all watched, whether we admitted it or not.
BEHAR: The movie?
MINNELLI: Yes, we all -- we watched it.
BEHAR: It`s a pleasure, a guilty pleasure.
MINNELLI: Oh, I stayed for the whole movie. I stayed.
BEHAR: I stayed also. I did. I did. Kim Cattrell is very funny in the film.
MINNELLI: She is wonderful.
BEHAR: Yes but was it fun to be in front of the camera? Because you haven`t really made movies lately? Is it fun to do a movie again? Because I know you did a lot of live performance.
MINNELLI: Sure. But I always think like I`m in front of a camera. You know, I think in angles and I think in shots. I guess because of I`m my father`s daughter too.
BEHAR: That`s right. The famous and legendary film director Vincent Minnelli. Vincent Minnelli.
MINNELLI: Vincente Minnelli.
BEHAR: Well he had an e at the end of his t.
MINNELLI: I know. Whatever.
BEHAR: Yes whatever. But he was a great movie director of musical comedies.
MINNELLI: He was the only director at MGM that did everything. He did musicals. He did comedies, the long, long trailer. He did, you know, Madam Beauvary.
BEHAR: With Jennifer Jones.
MINNELLI: Yes. He did everything.
BEHAR: You come from an incredible family.
MINNELLI: I do.
BEHAR: I mean between your father and your mother, Judy Garland --
MINNELLI: And my grandparents, as far back as I could trace were all in show business.
BEHAR: Really so that`s the whole thing. It`s in the genes at this point, isn`t it?
MINNELLI: I guess we`re bred into it, you know. We`re vaudevillians and circus people.
BEHAR: What was the greatest thing about being in that family, do you think?
MINNELLI: The watching.
BEHAR: Watching them perform?
MINNELLI: Yes -- no. Watching how it all worked. Watching like I`m looking now at this set. And I was watching the lighting and this that and the other. And you`re wonderful -- how you`re in control of everything. I just love seeing how things -- how things happen. You know, and it keeps everything very in the moment for me.
BEHAR: Have you ever wanted to be a director?
MINNELLI: Well, I kind of worked with Ron Lewis on my own shows.
BEHAR: You do? The live show?
MINNELLI: Oh yes, yes.
BEHAR: But they`re televised like "LIZA WITH A Z." Did you work on that with him as a director too?
MINNELLI: Oh, no, that was Fosse.
BEHAR: Oh, only the best for you.
MINNELLI: No, I think like a camera. I do. I think in close-up and medium shot, at this angle, at that angle. I don`t know. I was bred to I guess, really.
BEHAR: That`s what you were exposed to. I mean that`s a wonderful thing, to be expose to that type of stuff. But in addition to that, you were exposed to your mother -
MINNELLI: Oh yes.
BEHAR: Who was one of the great performers of the 20th century.
MINNELLI: And one of the funniest people I met in my life.
BEHAR: Hilarious, she was very funny when she would be on Johnny Carson or Merv Griffin.
MINNELLI: Oh, please, oh please.
BEHAR: She was really a riot.
MINNELLI: Yes, she was really funny.
BEHAR: Was she the kind of person who was blue? Like her stuff was, you know, like she would do a dirty joke and have everyone cracking?
MINNELLI: Oh she was clever with dirty words, it was witty.
BEHAR: Witty words.
MINNELLI: Yes. It was real wit, which has kind of disappeared now.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: And I can`t think of an example. I`ll think of one and tell you later.
BEHAR: OK. Now the other thing about you and your mother is that you`re both gay icons. I mentioned it in my introduction. What do you think that is about? There are very few people in your category, really in the gay community. I can think of Judy Garland, Liza Minnelli, maybe Bette Midler.
MINNELLI: Sure.
BEHAR: I think she is another one.
MINNELLI: Sure.
BEHAR: You know, you have Kathy Griffin coming up and Joan Rivers is a gay icon.
MINNELLI: Sure, yes, yes.
BEHAR: But what do you think that is about with you and Judy?
MINNELLI: I think it`s simple. They have good taste.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, I agree with that.
MINNELLI: That`s my answer.
BEHAR: I agree with that. It`s not really -- it`s not bragging, it`s just the truth.
MINNELLI: No. They have good taste.
BEHAR: They do have good taste. They know talent and they appreciate talent in the gay community. I noticed that.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: But there must be some other thing because there are many people who have talent.
MINNELLI: You know something? I don`t know, Joy. I honestly don`t know. But I`m grateful.
BEHAR: It is that they identify -- let`s take your mother. Your mother had her ups and downs. She had many difficult years.
MINNELLI: I guess so. I guess you`re right. I think maybe you`re right.
BEHAR: You know something to do with that.
MINNELLI: I honestly -- I honestly don`t know. You would have to ask somebody who is gay. I don`t know.
BEHAR: I have 20 gay guys here. Maybe I should turn around and ask them. Hey Henry! But I think that that`s it. Even for you, you`ve had difficult times in your life, you know. And I think that the gay community identifies with difficult times because they have difficult times.
MINNELLI: Well, you can tell by the press today.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: I mean we`ve all been through everything, you know. And people like it when they read about people`s trials and tribulations.
BEHAR: Why do they like it? Is it sadistic or do they identify?
MINNELLI: I think it makes them feel better about what they are going through themselves.
BEHAR: That would explain a lot of reality shows.
MINNELLI: I guess so. You know, that`s the way it is. You have to look at what is. And kind of figure out why it is, and then just watch it.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
MINNELLI: You know.
BEHAR: Right. Now you`re going on tour, I understand, starting June 5th. You`re starting in St. Louis, Missouri.
MINNELLI: Oh yes, yes.
BEHAR: Which is a great town. I`ve been there many times.
MINNELLI: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: It`s a lot of work for you.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s a lot for me. I go on the roads sometimes. It`s exhausting. Why are you doing it?
MINNELLI: I like it!
BEHAR: You like it?
MINNELLI: I like it.
BEHAR: You do.
MINNELLI: Yes, I enjoy it. It`s in my soul.
BEHAR: It`s in your soul, yes. To just get out there and wow them.
MINNELLI: No, it`s a sharing experience. It sounds corny. I don`t know. It`s what I do.
BEHAR: It`s what I do. Right.
MINNELLI: I go out and I learned from Charles Aznavour. There are songs about every experience. You know, I sing a song about a deaf girl who falls in love with a man and she doesn`t know how to talk to him. Things like that. I find -- I find songs about people that don`t have songs written about them.
BEHAR: Well deaf people usually don`t. You`re right.
MINNELLI: No. I have a song about a gay guy.
BEHAR: What`s it called?
MINNELLI: It`s called "What Makes A Man A Man."
BEHAR: That`s nice.
MINNELLI: It`s wonderful. Charles Aznavour.
BEHAR: Charles Aznavour wrote that?
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: He is great.
MINNELLI: Yes, he is swell.
BEHAR: I once asked Rosemary Clooney the question, you know she passed away a couple of years ago.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: She was a great, great artist in my opinion.
MINNELLI: She was the best.
BEHAR: She should have won 20 Grammies. I don`t know why she never did.
MINNELLI: She should have won anything.
BEHAR: I know.
MINNELLI: Anything there was to win she should have won it.
BEHAR: Most brilliant and so touching when she sang. I said to her why do you go on the road. She said it`s what I do, just like what you just said to me.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s what you do. And it`s what we do. We get out there and try to make these people laugh. OK, Liza, stay right there. We`re going to be back with the legendary Liza Minnelli in just a moment. So don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AND FEMALE: Money makes the world go around, the world go around money makes the world go around, it makes the world go around it`s all that makes the world go around -- that clinking blanking sound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: A great film. I`m back with Liza Minnelli who won an Oscar for her role as Sally Bowles in "Cabaret" in 1972. You were a baby. We were all babies in 1972.
MINNELLI: We sure were.
BEHAR: Yes, isn`t it nice that there is a resurgence of older women on television? Look at Betty White. She is 88.
MINNELLI: I know that`s great. Oh, she is wonderful.
BEHAR: Yes.
MINNELLI: Isn`t she wonderful?
BEHAR: She is great. I mean she`s been -- Joan, you know.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: How old is Joan, 40, 50 now?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But you know, I asked you before, what was the best thing about being in a famous family. What was the worst thing? What was hard?
MINNELLI: The lack of privacy. But you learned how to deal with it.
BEHAR: How did you deal with it?
MINNELLI: You closed the door. Now it`s hard.
BEHAR: It would be hard now. The paparazzi are everywhere now.
MINNELLI: No, but it`s the machines.
BEHAR: What machines?
MINNELLI: Excuse me?
BEHAR: You mean the Blackberries and things?
MINNELLI: Everything.
BEHAR: Oh, yes, that.
MINNELLI: You look around for cameras and the thing. You know, I find it interesting, but I`m very aware of it all the time. Because I grew up protecting my parents.
BEHAR: Why did you have to protect them? You were the child.
MINNELLI: Because that`s the way it was. You just wanted to. We`re family. You know.
BEHAR: But you were a kid.
MINNELLI: So were we all once. Didn`t you feel responsible when you were a kid?
BEHAR: For my parents? Nah, let them hang.
MINNELLI: You`re baiting me into something I am not going to go to.
BEHAR: You know, I have to tell you something. And I don`t know if you want to talk about this, but I was at your wedding.
MINNELLI: Which one?
BEHAR: I hope the last one.
MINNELLI: Oh, you bet it was.
BEHAR: I was at that wedding. Everybody in America was at that wedding. Every famous person. There were people I hadn`t seen in 50 years. Jane Wyman.
MINNELLI: I know.
BEHAR: Jane Powell.
MINNELLI: All those poor people.
BEHAR: All the Janes. There was one row, just Janes.
MINNELLI: Yes Janes, I know.
BEHAR: You know?
MINNELLI: And they were so nice to come out for it. And you know something terrible?
BEHAR: Yes?
MINNELLI: I only found out I paid for that.
BEHAR: You paid for that wedding?
MINNELLI: Yes. I only found out about five months ago.
BEHAR: Why? You just got the bill?
MINNELLI: I just found out. No. Because I said to somebody, well, I mean, that`s -- I never mention that name again.
BEHAR: We don`t have to say the name.
MINNELLI: Oh, no, no. Ever.
BEHAR: OK.
MINNELLI: And so I said well, at least it was pretty. It should be. It cost however much money it cost. I said yes. And they said and you paid for it. I said oh. So what do I have to do today? Thinking OK, I got to go to work because I got to keep working.
BEHAR: So you thought that piece (ph) who shall be nameless, you thought he paid for it?
MINNELLI: Oh, sure. I didn`t know.
BEHAR: That was a sneaky thing to do, stick you with the bill. And damn, it was big wedding too.
MINNELLI: No kidding.
BEHAR: It must have cost a fortune. Oh my god. But Elizabeth Taylor was there. What was the story? She lost her shoes or something at the wedding?
MINNELLI: I think she left her shoes at the hotel.
BEHAR: So what was she at the wedding, her slippers?
MINNELLI: No, they went back and got her shoes.
BEHAR: But she was barefoot?
MINNELLI: No, we all waited. You know, it`s Elizabeth.
BEHAR: Elizabeth, oh, yes, queen Elizabeth. And Michael Jackson was - - wasn`t he the best man or an usher there?
MINNELLI: Yes. And I grabbed him.
BEHAR: You were friends with him, right?
MINNELLI: Oh, yes. So I grabbed him when I saw him when I got out of there. And I grabbed him and I said why did you let me marry this idiot? And he said I thought you liked him. You looked so happy. Your dress was so -- I don`t know. Let me go! I said Michael! How could you? He said it`s over. Relax. And then we look at each other and we started to laugh. We really -- then we really started to laugh.
BEHAR: Well, you know, you looked like you were madly in love with him. Or he looked like he was madly in love with you. He threw his tongue down your throat like he was going to kiss your lungs.
MINNELLI: Honey, did you see my face?
BEHAR: Well, you looked a little scared.
MINNELLI: A little scared? I looked like just what you said. What the! I looked like.
BEHAR: I know. Just say wtf. That gets you through everything.
MINNELLI: It was hilarious, well, some of the things I have been through make me laugh so hard when I think back.
BEHAR: You got to laugh.
MINNELLI: Oh my god.
BEHAR: You got to laugh. I mean that`s the thing.
MINNELLI: It is funny. I mean, it`s really funny. Because if you can`t look at it and rewrite it.
BEHAR: Isn`t that what comedy is about?
MINNELLI: Isn`t that what making it through and going forward and surviving is about?
BEHAR: Yes, it is.
MINNELLI: Isn`t that what women are about?
BEHAR: About women in particular.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, we have to laugh because we have so much aggravation in the world.
MINNELLI: Agita.
BEHAR: Did you speak Italian as a kid?
MINNELLI: No.
BEHAR: Your father did?
MINNELLI: No.
BEHAR: Oh, nobody really spoke Italian.
MINNELLI: No.
BEHAR: But he was Italian, right?
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes, and mom?
MINNELLI: Irish-French.
BEHAR: Irish-French, uh huh, so you`re a mixed breed.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: Anyway, we were looking at "Cabaret" before. And I was thinking, that is one of the great musicals on screen. Along with I think "Chicago" I like of more recent ones, "Chicago." Not your father`s, which were great in his time.
MINNELLI: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: It`s hard to do a musical these days. But they managed to do it in "Chicago." "Dream Girls," turned out well.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: But like "Nine" flopped, "Nine" flopped.
MINNELLI: You have to think from the audience`s point of view, I think. So if I was directing a musical movie, I would go sit in the theater somewhere and think, OK, if something came on the screen, what would I believe?
BEHAR: Uh huh, right.
MINNELLI: What would hook me and what would I believe?
BEHAR: Right.
MINNELLI: And that`s where you start from. I think.
BEHAR: Yes. Maybe it`s hard to translate that sort of thing on to the screen, which is why your father and Stanley Donen did beautiful work in the old days.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: OK, we`ll be back -
MINNELLI: With Gene Kelly.
BEHAR: With Gene Kelly.
MINNELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: He was a great dancer, right. Who was a better dancer? Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire?
MINNELLI: They were completely different.
BEHAR: I know but if you had to pick, if someone had a gun to your head.
MINNELLI: No, you don`t pick.
BEHAR: Come on.
MINNELLI: They`re completely different.
BEHAR: All right, I like Fred Astaire better, OK, back with more Liza Minnelli after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Liza Minnelli has shared the stage with the greatest entertainers of all time. Charles Aznavour, as she mentioned before, Sammy Davis, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, or should I say, they`ve shared the stage with her. I`m back with Liza, that must have been a period -- I really envy that time to be with the rat pack and hang out with Sinatra and Dean and those guys. Tell me something. Give me something.
MINNELLI: It`s like being with the neighbors.
BEHAR: Oh really?
MINNELLI: Well, I grew up with them.
BEHAR: You know, to you it`s nothing because you grew -- to everybody else, we`re like --
MINNELLI: Well, they were so nice to me. You know, because I was like the kid. And I had a wonderful time. You know, Bill Lavoine (ph), my drummer, my conductor was there with me. So we would start and after the show we`d go eat with Frank, then we`d go to Sammy`s room and we`d, you know, rag on what happened at dinner.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: Then, of course, pappy and I would go to our room and -- not our room -- my room and rag on what happened with Sam.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: And then we`d go to bed and it was 6:00 in the morning --
BEHAR: Oh boy.
MINNELLI: -- and we`d get up. Now, Frank used to like -- uncle Frank -- used to like to get on a plane, arrive, get to the theater and go from the car to the stage. Sammy and I couldn`t do that.
BEHAR: Why, why not?
MINNELLI: Because we`re vaudevillians. We have to get there, rehearse, two hours, relax, get the makeup on --
BEHAR: Check sound.
MINNELLI: Check sound. Yes, hone it.
BEHAR: But not Sinatra. He used to just go right there --
MINNELLI: No. That`s -- so he did it his way and he was brilliant.
BEHAR: He was brilliant.
MINNELLI: Brilliant. We did it our way, and staging, where he went, we didn`t go.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: He went there, we went here and -- you know, we just -- it was fun.
BEHAR: You know, as you`re speaking to me you`re blinding me with your jewels.
MINNELLI: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: Which happens to be your collection. Is it not? This is very pretty.
MINNELLI: When I had my knee -- I have a new knee. You have to sit still for so long, which I`m not used to.
BEHAR: How long? Months?
MINNELLI: Yes. Couple -- yes. Couple or three months.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MINNELLI: So I didn`t have anything to do. So they told me to work with, you know, the balls for the muscles. I thought, while I`m working clay, and then I started just molding things and I started to design stuff.
BEHAR: Those are very pretty.
MINNELLI: I did these and this.
BEHAR: Delightful.
MINNELLI: Again, all the influences that I`ve had. It`s Paretti (ph) influence. It`s, again, my dad. It`s New York City. It`s whatever happens.
BEHAR: It is. It`s beautiful. And I think you`re going to be selling --
MINNELLI: I have a present for you.
BEHAR: You do? You want to give it to me now or later?
MINNELLI: Yes, I do.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh, thank you, that`s beautiful, thank you very much.
MINNELLI: Isn`t that pretty?
BEHAR: Yes. And thank you so much for joining me tonight, Liza. It`s a pleasure -
MINNELLI: Oh honey.
BEHAR: And a treat to have you here. And good night, Liza, thank you so much.
MINNELLI: Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: And good night everybody out there.
MINNELLI: Good night everyone.
END
