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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Ricky Gervais; Interview With Alice Cooper
Aired December 02, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Ricky Gervais is not only funny, he`s British; two of my favorite qualities in a guest. His new special, "Talking Funny", sees Ricky talking with Chris Rock, Louis C.K. and Jerry Seinfeld. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICKY GERVAIS, COMEDIAN: Why do people have this feeling of laughter and they find it`s funny? What if they discover they can do it themselves?
CHRIS ROCK: They can.
JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: They can do it themselves.
GERVAIS: But why are they paying us?
SEINFELD: They can`t do it as well.
ROCK: No, they can`t do it as well.
SEINFELD: We are higher --
LOUIS C.K., COMEDIAN: They can play touch football, too. They can watch each other play football.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ricky Gervais is with me now. Welcome to the show.
GERVAIS: Hello.
BEHAR: You were so hysterical at that. Were you high? Were you stoned?
GERVAIS: We`re laughing. No. That`s my -- that is -- I`m so privileged to have this job when you can sit around with funny people. I`ve always been attracted to funny people. My friends, my family, there`s nothing better than laughing.
BEHAR: I know.
GERVAIS: There`s just, you know -- I am -- I sort of celebrate the fact that I`m around funnier people than me all the time. It`s a joy.
BEHAR: It`s a great defense against the tragedies of life also.
GERVAIS: Well, I mean, that`s it, isn`t it? That`s what humor is, I think. I think that`s why I think we evolved with that, it`s a shield and a sword, it just gets you through and it`s a release. I think it`s -- it helps you through.
BEHAR: They always say comedians are unhappy in childhood and everything. I don`t know. They asked Mel Brooks one time, were you unhappy as a child? No, he said, I had love all around me. I wanted to reproduce that. I wasn`t unhappy.
GERVAIS: Yes. I didn`t have a tragic life at all, no. And I remember it being -- I didn`t even know I was poor until I went to university and they were all talking like Prince Charles, you know, so.
BEHAR: How does that sound? Doesn`t sound like you?
GERVAIS: They all talk like this.
BEHAR: Clenched.
GERVAIS: Yes. Yes. I didn`t realize I was working class. But then I played up on it.
BEHAR: You know, you and I have a lot in common. I`ve been reading about you and thinking about it. First of all, I grew up in a working class family. I had no idea we were poor, you know? My aunts had mink stoles -- we looked like we were rich.
GERVAIS: Really? We say fur coat, no knickers.
BEHAR: Yes. Exactly.
GERVAIS: Not about your aunt, I don`t know your aunt.
BEHAR: Who knows?
GERVAIS: Who knows? I certainly don`t. I can tell you now I have no evidence whether your aunt wore knickers or not. I assume she did, but I just like to say that. Thanks. Good night.
BEHAR: But so we have that, and then I have a spousal equivalent like yours. I`m not married. I`ve been with the guy 28 years and you`ve been with your girlfriend for how long?
GERVAIS: Around 1982.
BEHAR: Me too. 1982 is when I met him.
GERVAIS: We should have double dated.
BEHAR: How do you like that?
GERVAIS: Yes. We went at it very wrong. I`d have gone off with your partner.
BEHAR: Really?
GERVAIS: That`s weird, isn`t it?
BEHAR: That`s weird, yes.
GERVAIS: First about your aunt wearing no knickers and then I hit on your husband. You`re not married. It`s fine. He`s single.
BEHAR: Are you getting married?
GERVAIS: No. No. We are married.
BEHAR: You are married.
GERVAIS: Yes.
BEHAR: But, you know, for tax purposes I just found out it`s a good idea to be married. That`s why gays want to get married.
GERVAIS: That`s romantic.
BEHAR: Isn`t it?
GERVAIS: Exactly, yes.
BEHAR: That`s what he said when I told him that.
GERVAIS: You know, I love you so much, we could save tax.
BEHAR: Well, it`s an economic institution.
GERVAIS: No. But we, you know, we`ve lived together for 25 years and everything`s equal and everything`s split. All we didn`t do is go to a strange ceremony in a big building with, you know, our relatives. We don`t ever want them to meet.
BEHAR: No.
GERVAIS: And now I`m rich. I don`t need toasters.
BEHAR: You don`t need anything.
GERVAIS: I`ve got millions -- I`ve got golden toasters.
BEHAR: Do you like being rich? Do you like being rich?
GERVAIS: It`s better than being poor but I`m not bothered. Really.
BEHAR: You`re not bothered by it.
GERVAIS: No, it doesn`t faze me.
BEHAR: It doesn`t annoy you to be rich.
GERVAIS: It doesn`t faze me, no. It`s funny you should say that because I never worried about that sort of thing. It was -- when I grew up, there was a sort of nobility in poverty. Do you know what I mean?
BEHAR: There was what?
GERVAIS: There was a nobility.
BEHAR: Oh, nobility.
GERVAIS: There was a sort of -- they were people who are proud to be working people. We were never wallowing, you know, we were all in the same boat. We didn`t have any money. My dad was a laborer, my mom was a housewife. But she was always cleaning, she was always planting roses in the garden to make it look nice. And I thought that were the important things.
And then I suppose I grew up on fairy tales. Just because you were rich and successful and powerful that didn`t mean you had anything more than someone who wasn`t. One of my favorite phrases is "Ability is poor man`s wealth."
I love the idea that --
BEHAR: And talent.
GERVAIS: Exactly, yes. And I suppose I learned a lesson, I was so unambitious. I was, you know, lazy. And when I did "The Office"; it was the first thing I ever tried my hardest at and I got hooked to that. I got hooked to the work itself; and even if it hadn`t won awards and made me rich or whatever, I couldn`t have been prouder of it.
And in fact, the first time the check came through the door it sort of ruined it a bit.
BEHAR: Did it? Why?
GERVAIS: Well, because -- don`t worry, I got over it. I`m not an idiot. I gave it back.
BEHAR: It ruined it because, why?
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: I didn`t want it -- it was purer why I`d done it before. And now it was like, it was a business. And it is a business, I am in show business and I take care of the business side of things and I get paid for it. But it`s never the -- it`s never the reason I do it. Just like fame was never the reason.
I think people think that most people -- and some people do become an actor or whatever just because they want fame. Well, I never did that. I love writing and creating comedy. There`s nothing that gives me adrenaline rush like an idea.
BEHAR: You do it to survive also. I mean I think, it`s like you have to do it.
GERVAIS: I remember when I did "The Office", I knew that if it was successful -- if I was a successful actor in something that I`d written, that I`d be a famous person and I worried about that. I worried about the press intrusion, particularly in England, they can be a bit rough, and --
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
GERVAIS: I never signed that deal with the devil. I never said make me famous and you can go through my bins. So I talked about the work. And I didn`t really love dealing with those celebrities that do anything to be famous. They live their life like an open wound.
BEHAR: Like who?
GERVAIS: Well, you know them.
BEHAR: Name names.
GERVAIS: No. No, I won`t, but they`re the ones that call the press and say I`m coming to the airport. You know?
BEHAR: Yes, or I`m going to be at the Ivy in L.A. I`ll be there. Send the press.
GERVAIS: And I remember when "The Office" broke, a journalist rubbed me up the wrong way, they said, so what advice would you give to other people who want to be famous like you? I went, I`d tell them to go out and get a prostitute. Because it annoyed me they thought that that was anything to do with anything I did. And anyone can be famous. You can -- you can murder someone to --
BEHAR: That`s true.
GERVAIS: Fame -- there`s no difference nowadays between fame and infamy. People do horrendous things and they tell horrendous things because it would sell their autobiography. Oh, God. Just keep it to yourself. Please.
BEHAR: Your comedy is uncompromising too, I think. I think that you basically get out there and say what you think and what you think is funny, and that`s it. Take it or leave it. Yes?
GERVAIS: I try and please me. That`s all I try and do. I try and please me. And people think that`s arrogant and smug. It`s not. It`s because if you try and please someone else, you`ll come unstuck. It`s just empty. You know?
I don`t want to do stuff made by committee. I don`t want to change one word because it would be more popular or get more ratings because I couldn`t live with myself. And listen, there`s no guarantee, if you sell out, there`s no guarantee you`ll be successful and all you`ve done is sold out. So I think the best thing to do, please yourself, get the final idea, be happy with that product and you`re bulletproof.
BEHAR: Yes. You know, Larry David said on his show the more people I can offend the better.
GERVAIS: I don`t try to offend people, but I say what I believe. And if they`re offended that`s not my problem, because just because you`re offended it doesn`t mean you`re in the right. You know? No one has the right not to be offended. Ok?
BEHAR: Do you think that this sense that you have about the, you know, the purity of the work which I hear you saying is because you started late? Because you did start late in life; you`re not a -- you didn`t start as a 20-year-old.
GERVAIS: I think that I came with a slightly, you know, wiser head on my shoulders, I suppose. I didn`t start until 40, but I suppose I`d learned a few lessons. I feared I`d seen people sort of live their life to be famous and not get happiness. I knew that wasn`t the answer to happiness. And I suppose when I was about 20 I wanted to be a pop star and I sort of tried, not a bit of success.
BEHAR: Can you sing? You`re a singer.
GERVAIS: Yes, I`m ok, yes. But my mistake was I wanted to be a pop star and I should have wanted to be a musician.
BEHAR: Oh.
GERVAIS: And that stayed with me. You know?
BEHAR: What instrument did you play?
GERVAIS: I played guitar and I sang, but it was -- it was, you know, I found what I was good at eventually.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: And there`s just no rush. There`s just no rush.
BEHAR: No because it doesn`t matter when you`re successful at something in life as long as you are at some point I guess.
GERVAIS: No, and it doesn`t even matter if you`re successful in these terms. I think the important thing is doing something you enjoy.
BEHAR: That`s right, words to live by. We`ll have more with Ricky Gervais in just a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Believe it or not, that was Ricky Gervais in his `80s pop group, "Fiona Dancing" (ph). What? That`s you? Did you have a sex change?
GERVAIS: What? I know what you`re saying -- I know what you`re saying, you can`t believe that gorgeous being turned into this fat old lump. That`s what you`re saying. I know you`re saying that.
BEHAR: Oh my -- no, the hair. What -- you still --
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: No, don`t give me it`s the hair that`s slightly different.
BEHAR: Wow.
GERVAIS: Yes, wow. I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s so shocking -- look at you.
GERVAIS: What`s so shocking? We all get old.
BEHAR: What year is that? The `60s, `70s?
GERVAIS: Yes but no.
BEHAR: The `80s. I`m sorry, I said the `80s. Oh, my God. That is unbelievable. I`m trying to think of who you look like, though. There`s something about you. David Bowie-ish.
GERVAIS: Oh he was my hero.
BEHAR: Oh so you copied the look a little.
GERVAIS: Well, I borrowed.
BEHAR: And you say you`re fat.
GERVAIS: I was influenced by it.
BEHAR: You`re not fat now.
GERVAIS: I`ve lost a bit.
BEHAR: How much did you lose?
GERVAIS: About 20-odd pounds.
BEHAR: Oh. That`s not much.
GERVAIS: No, you`re not impressed, are you? It`s brilliant. Not as good as him.
BEHAR: I`ve had people come on, I lost 80 pounds, you know, and you really see the difference.
GERVAIS: I didn`t have 80 pounds to lose. I wasn`t that fat.
BEHAR: No, you weren`t. But you used to do fat jokes -- do you still do fat jokes?
GERVAIS: No, not now. I would look mean.
BEHAR: It looks mean now, yes.
GERVAIS: Yes, well, I did -- yes I did fat jokes when I was fat and then you know.
BEHAR: You have to be fat to do fat jokes.
GERVAIS: I still think those things. I just don`t say them anymore.
BEHAR: Well, you could do jokes about being fat.
GERVAIS: Well, I never -- I never said there was anything wrong with being fat. I mainly said it was your own fault. I got fat because I ate too much and I didn`t work out enough. Done, that`s the simple science.
BEHAR: That`s true.
GERVAIS: You know, yes, no one -- no one`s sneaking in and injecting my lettuce with 1,000 calories. No one gets fat behind their own bath. No one goes, why, what`s happen there? It`s all the pies. We know it`s the pies.
You know, I knew it at the time. I stopped eating so many pies and I went for a jog. That`s it. You know? But it`s not -- it`s your choice, it`s everyone`s choice. And I`m saying there`s nothing wrong with being fat if that`s what you like.
BEHAR: Yes. No one likes to be fat.
GERVAIS: Well, you know, I didn`t care that much. But, no, it`s -- it`s -- I did it because I didn`t want to die, really. That`s the truth.
BEHAR: Really.
GERVAIS: Because I thought, you know, 49, that`s enough now.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: That`s enough. I was one of those guys that -- that do wake up and go what happened? You know it`s been a steady process. You know after -- after that video was shot --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: -- I went out and discovered pizza and then --
BEHAR: You did?
GERVAIS: I was steadily fatter for 20 years.
BEHAR: Were -- were you successful at that career at all?
GERVAIS: No.
BEHAR: But you looked like you were very good. You -- you know, you`ve got the little zip.
GERVAIS: Yes, I had the little zip. I`ve still got the little zip. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You`ve got the zip.
GERVAIS: Is that what you call it? Yes when I was fat.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, no, no wait a minute I mean, it`s a different persona there. I`m looking at you and I`m thinking you know, you were going for like sexy and like lean and mean and sexy. Now you`re just like, you`re comedic.
GERVAIS: Just sexy now.
BEHAR: It`s different. It`s a different persona --
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: Well, so not even sexy anymore. I`ve lost that. I`ve lost that.
BEHAR: No, sex and comedy don`t mix.
GERVAIS: No I know. No, you`ve got to be -- you`ve got to be a putz.
BEHAR: You`ve got to be a schlub (ph) or something.
GERVAIS: I actually -- yes, another Yiddish word about all of that jerk (ph) and schlub in them.
BEHAR: A schlub you know.
GERVAIS: Yes.
BEHAR: A guy who`s really handsome, like Carey Grant, although he was a comedic actor.
GERVAIS: Yes.
BEHAR: But if he did stand up, no one would laugh.
GERVAIS: No you`ve got -- you`ve got -- Larry David said, you`ve to come to terms for your own inadequacies.
BEHAR: That`s right.
GERVAIS: Somehow, you`ve got -- I agree. I think and we talked about this on "Talking Funny" that I think you should never be above the audience. And Jerry was saying, we`re already above the audience. You know, you`ve got the mike; you`re the only one talking. And I went no, but I mean is -- you can`t be --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, he was taking it literally that you --
GERVAIS: Well, no, I understand what he meant, but I`m -- I like -- I like Louie C.K. who comes out and every story is about how the world screwed him over.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: And I love that.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: I love that. And I come out and I sometimes I play the other edge, I pretend to be arrogant and above them but I know, I`m -- I`m doing that for effect. But I think a comedian has got to fall over for our pleasure. I don`t -- I don`t want to hear, as you say, someone unfazeably (ph) handsome telling me what a great life they`ve got.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Exactly, it`s not funny.
GERVAIS: No. It`s like yes --
BEHAR: No, it`s annoying, actually.
GERVAIS: -- well, it`s just -- it`s just not funny.
BEHAR: Yes. So this is why you now, women are like Joan Rivers used to be criticized for being self-deprecating but that is what comedy is, you know. And Rodney Dangerfield, I get no respect. It`s the same idea that you`re talking about Louie C.K. It`s self-deprecating.
GERVAIS: I think you`ve always, you and the audience --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
GERVAIS: -- have got to be victims together. Your targets can look like soft targets but really you`ve got -- you`ve got to prick the bubble. It`s got to be your -- you know, your -- your pretensions or our pretensions. Sometimes I play a slight character where I come down the wrong side and I go for soft targets and I`m wrong. You know?
But they know that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: They know --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: I think -- I think they`re clever enough to know when I`m getting something wrong and when I`m actually really going for something. So --
BEHAR: You find the audiences to be very smart, your audience?
GERVAIS: Well, you have to find the audience.
BEHAR: Well, don`t they find you?
GERVAIS: Well, exactly.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: I`m -- you know, I`m sort of quite Darwinist about this. I think you do your own thing and you find a group of people somewhere in the world that likes that.
BEHAR: That`s right. You can`t please everybody.
GERVAIS: No, and you shouldn`t try because if you do you`re pleasing no one. You know? And there`s six billion people on this planet. If you just try and please yourself, there`s going to be a few people that agree with you.
BEHAR: That`s -- that`s true.
GERVAIS: It`s true. You know? I don`t want to --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you get nervous? You did talk a little bit in the HBO special about being a little -- all of you are anxiety-ridden before you go on, and it`s difficult, the work. I mean, I do it and it`s very hard sometimes for me to be calm before I go out.
GERVAIS: I don`t get nervous, you know, I want to make sure I do a good performance. The worst thing for me is dropping (ph) a line. I`m angry with myself. I don`t mind if I`ve said it, I don`t mind if they laugh. I don`t mind if they gasp; but they`ve got to understand it. You know.
It`s like on "The View" today.
BEHAR: Yes. The other day.
GERVAIS: The other day.
BEHAR: The other day, yes.
On "The View" the other day, what happened? What happened? I don`t even remember it, it was so long ago.
All right.
We`ll be -- we`ll have more with Ricky Gervais after a quick break. He`s going to collect himself.
GERVAIS: Oh, God.
BEHAR: Ok.
GERVAIS: I`ve ruined it. I`ve ruined the whole show.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CLIP FROM "THE OFFICE")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Ricky Gervais in the original "Office" and he`s back with me. You know what --
GERVAIS: Just an example of my uncompromising subtle comedy.
BEHAR: Exactly.
GERVAIS: Genius. Like Oscar Wilde.
BEHAR: The purity of it is astounding.
GERVAIS: It`s amazing, isn`t it? Yes.
BEHAR: I`m watching that and I`m thinking, this is the reason that women have a harder time with comedy. I just realized it as I was watching you. Because girls have a reluctance to make fools of themselves the way you just did in that spot.
GERVAIS: Really?
BEHAR: You know what I mean? Girls are not as uninhibited as boys.
GERVAIS: That`s because they don`t want to show off as much as boys. Boys will do anything for a laugh.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, they don`t get rewarded for acting stupid.
GERVAIS: No, exactly, yes. Boys will do anything for attention and that includes making a fool of yourself. British are slightly different, British people -- it`s the biggest fear making a fool of yourself.
BEHAR: Really?
GERVAIS: Oh, really. Yes. Yes. John Cleese said an Englishman tries to get to his grave having never been embarrassed and it`s very true. I don`t care about that. I don`t care. I don`t get embarrassed because I don`t care about --
BEHAR: Because you`re a comic. You`re funny. You`re a free spirit.
GERVAIS: Yes. I just don`t think -- I always think, "What`s the worst that can happen? Who cares?"
BEHAR: I mean I`ll dance like that around the house and get my guy to laugh. He laughs --
GERVAIS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: -- when I act like that. But to do it in public I would be inhibited because I`m female.
GERVAIS: Well, I`m probably more -- yes, I`m more (INAUDIBLE) famous in the street doing it because again, I don`t want to look like showing off. You know.
BEHAR: Right. Put the camera on me sort of thing. There`s that. That is so tacky.
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: But no, I mean making a fool of yourself is, I think, is pretty much a staple of comedy. You`ve got to be the putz.
BEHAR: Otherwise, you can`t take others on, also.
GERVAIS: You can`t be cool and sexy, there`s nothing funny about it.
BEHAR: No, no. For sure.
Now, this whole business, "Rolling Stone" said this about your home which I found this odd. It says in "Rolling Stone" about your houses, "He pushes a button and corrugated steel shutters grind to a close all over the house covering the windows. Now he`s sealed inside." Is this like your idea of going back into the womb or something? What the hell?
GERVAIS: Ok, I`ve got steel shutters on all the windows, yes, for security. I do it when we go to bed or when we go on holiday. I don`t sit there like Howard Hughes in the dark.
BEHAR: Ok. You`re going to also be with Larry -- I mentioned Larry David, you`re going to be on "Curb Your Enthusiasm".
GERVAIS: Yes, that was great.
BEHAR: What are you playing?
GERVAIS: I`m playing a twisted version of myself, a real sort of arrogant, pretentious actor. Hold on, what`s he saying?
BEHAR: Larry likes people to stay close to their real personality.
GERVAIS: Yes, exactly. I love Larry David. I think he`s one of the greatest modern geniuses of our time in comedy. I just love him. This just changed when he`s -- it`s so funny. He`s great.
BEHAR: And so are you.
GERVAIS: Thank you.
BEHAR: Thank you so much for coming on.
GERVAIS: I`ve been waiting for that.
BEHAR: -- for coming on with me.
GERVAIS: Even though I`ve lost my looks, yes?
BEHAR: No, you haven`t really. You just changed your looks.
GERVAIS: Just edit that. Instead of saying, "You`re such a joy." Get one of the -- when she was saying he`s not sexy, just put in sexy. Yes.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
GERVAIS: Right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Before Lady Gaga wore a meat dress, Alice Cooper bit the head of a live chicken on stage. Now, that`s entertainment! Alice Cooper is the newest member of the Rock `n` Roll Hall of Fame, and he joins me now. Welcome to the show, Alice.
ALICE COOPER, MUSICIAN: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
BEHAR: First of all, I have to say, that Alice is not your real name.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: It`s going to be hard for me to talk to you as Alice.
COOPER: OK. My real name is Brenda.
BEHAR: Brenda?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Why Alice?
COOPER: Well, you know, you had to come up with something at that time that was going to annoy every parent in America. And that was pretty much it. I figured if we called ourselves Alice Cooper and we`re wearing sort of our girlfriend`s slips, but they`re kind of torn and there`s a little blood on the arm and everything like this, you know, it was pretty artistic at the time to do that, 1968, `67, `68, but it definitely got the shock value across.
BEHAR: It sure did. It sure did. But why not Hortensia Shirley? Why Alice?
COOPER: Alice was the first name that came up. It`s funny, because we were trying to think of names, and the very first name that came up was Alice Cooper. And then I started thinking, Alice Cooper, Lizzie Borden, Baby Jane. It had a ring to it. It had kind of a dark ring to it. It`s kind of good.
BEHAR: That`s funny. But you know, what`s her name, Lady Gaga is nothing compared to -- I mean, she goes out with crazy outfits, but you guys, you had guillotines on the air, you had blood, snakes, baby dolls.
COOPER: Still do.
BEHAR: Are you still walking around with a snake, right?
COOPER: Absolutely. I had the snake last night at the induction, you know, because it`s sort of so synonymous with Alice, the snake is, and it was voted the No. 1 prop of all time.
BEHAR: Really?
COOPER: Yes, the snake was.
BEHAR: Didn`t Britney Spears have a snake at one point, too?
COOPER: Yes. It kind of watered down the idea.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: When she did it.
Now, congratulations on being inducted into the hall of fame.
COOPER: Thank you.
BEHAR: That`s really lovely. You were passed over for a long time. Were you afraid like Justin Bieber would get in before you?
COOPER: I was Susan Lucci for a while. Yeah. There were 15 years there that we weren`t even nominated. And then we got nominated and as soon as we got nominated, we were voted in. A lot of people thought we were already in. It was one of those things where they actually thought we were already in the hall of fame. But I think everybody`s going to get their chance to be in. I mean, you think of bands like the Moody Blues, Donovan. Deep Purple. I mean, there are so many great acts that have been around for 40 years.
BEHAR: Yes. And the Moody Blues, I mean, they were phenomenal in their day.
COOPER: Yes, and still are. They`re amazing.
BEHAR: They`re still touring?
COOPER: All of those bands are still touring. Yes.
BEHAR: Wow. Bet they sell out handicapped parking.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So what do you think of Lady Gaga, while I`m on the topic of her?
COOPER: You know, I like Lady Gaga for one really good reason. There`s the fact that she sings. She`s a good singer. She writes a lot of her material.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: She designs her shows. She pretty much -- she does everything. She`s kind of the -- she`s a cross between Mae West and Madonna and Liberace.
BEHAR: Well, Madonna -- yeah, Liberace, why not. I mean, but some people have said that she`s copying Madonna. Do you think so?
COOPER: No, I think she took it further than Madonna. Madonna was more of a sex symbol. I don`t think Lady Gaga is a sex symbol.
BEHAR: That`s a good point, yes.
COOPER: I think Lady Gaga is more of a spectacle, which I really like, and she goes for it.
BEHAR: It`s more like you.
COOPER: Yeah. I mean, if you`re going to do it, do it. If you say welcome to my nightmare, don`t just say it, do it. Give them the nightmare, you know?
BEHAR: Yeah. Did you actually bite the head of a live chicken or is that a --
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: That`s not a real--
COOPER: The story behind it is actually more dastardly than that. It has a different twist to it. Somebody threw a chicken on stage in Toronto. I picked up the chicken, thinking, you know, I`m from Detroit, I`ve never been on a farm in my life. It had feathers. It`s a bird. It should fly.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I picked it up and I kind of tossed it into the audience, figuring it would just kind of fly away.
BEHAR: A real chicken?
COOPER: Yeah, a real chicken.
BEHAR: A real chicken.
COOPER: And it didn`t fly as much as it plummeted. And the audience tore it to pieces.
BEHAR: Oh my God! How horrible!
COOPER: And threw the parts back up on stage. And next day in the paper it was Alice Cooper kills chicken on stage. And Frank Zappa called me up and he said, "did you really kill a chicken on stage last night?" I went, no. He said, well, don`t tell anybody, they love it. You know?
The kicker to the story is the first two rows at that audience were all in wheelchairs. They were the ones that tore the chicken to pieces.
BEHAR: Oh my God.
COOPER: Which I thought was even more odd than if I would have done it.
BEHAR: It`s like the Donner party on wheels.
COOPER: It was.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: How horrible. That is scary.
COOPER: Well, first of all, who brings a chicken to the concert?
BEHAR: Well, that, I can understand. But tearing the chicken apart--
COOPER: Wait a minute. Yeah, I got my tickets, I got my wallet, I got my--
BEHAR: Got my chicken.
COOPER: -- drugs, I got my chicken.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s funny. Now, you know, what -- how has "Cabaret" influence you? The movie "Cabaret?" I think it was Liza Minnelli who said that.
COOPER: Yeah. Well, I think it was the fact that our show had that quality to it. It had this kind of a dark sexual quality to it. And we didn`t mind wearing the makeup that was not really well done. It was kind of smeared on and it was kind of white (ph) and it had that kind of sideshow look to it. And I think that that`s what I meant when I said "Cabaret." It was sort of like you walk in and you see the show, here`s the big show and then here`s the sideshow that you don`t really want to go to, but you really do want to go to.
BEHAR: Yeah.
COOPER: That was us.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
COOPER: You know.
BEHAR: By the way, what brand of mascara do you use?
COOPER: This is actually whatever I find. It`s grease paint. I go - - very glamorous.
BEHAR: What do you have on -- what do you have on right now? Your eyebrows look a little weird.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: Oh, no, they -- I`m sorry. Oh my God, a faux pas.
COOPER: No, are they?
BEHAR: Those are really your eyebrows?
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: No, come on.
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: Let me see. Those are not stained at all?
COOPER: No. I don`t get real eyebrows -- oh, what do you mean? Are these my real eyebrows?
BEHAR: Yeah.
COOPER: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Well, wait a minute. Nobody 63 years old has dark hair. You know? If you go to one of these, when you go to one of these rock things and you`re giving away things and everybody that comes up at 65 and they have black hair--
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah.
COOPER: The only guy with honest hair is Jimmy Page. He`s got white hair. Probably under this is a lot of gray hair.
BEHAR: Yeah. So, your real color is all white?
COOPER: Yeah, probably. Not white, but gray.
BEHAR: How does it feel to be 63 and still be a rocker? Is it great?
COOPER: You know, I`ll tell you what. I think you`re about as young as your heart is. I quit drinking 30 years ago. When I was 30, I was 63, because I was really hitting it hard.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s like the Dylan song, I was so much older then, but I`m younger than that now.
COOPER: Oh, I`m 63 now, I get up and do 90 minutes on stage. I`ve never felt better. I can go all night.
BEHAR: Because you`re not drinking or taking drugs.
COOPER: Yeah, and I`m just in good shape. I mean, I was a distance runner. I was a miler and a two-miler competitively. Play golf every day. You know, I mean, I`ve been married for 35 years to the same girl.
BEHAR: My god.
COOPER: And -- yeah.
BEHAR: Look at you.
COOPER: Never cheated on her.
BEHAR: Wow, you`re like Jerry Falwell.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Yeah. Kind of.
BEHAR: With mascara. But I want to get to all of that in a little while. I still want to talk about being an older rocker, because I went to see the Stones at the Meadowlands or one of those big halls. They had like fire and brimstone.
COOPER: Oh, yeah.
BEHAR: It was the most fabulous show.
COOPER: It`s spec -- we opened for them in that show. We opened in about three for four cities for them.
BEHAR: Did you?
COOPER: Yeah. But Mick Jagger does a half an hour on a treadmill, and then does three hours on stage. He`s 66. 67?
BEHAR: Oh, yeah, sure, if he`s a day.
COOPER: Unbelievable. He`s a phenomenon. I mean, nobody`s in that good a shape.
BEHAR: Do you think he and Keith Richards actually like each other or not?
COOPER: Yeah, I think they do.
BEHAR: Do you think they do?
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: And I was surprised to see that Keith Richards actually writes all the music.
COOPER: Keith Richards--
BEHAR: He`s brilliant.
COOPER: -- is a modern-day medical miracle.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: If you got a transfusion of his blood, all of us would be dead in about an hour. But somehow, what would kill us is keeping him alive.
BEHAR: Yes, I think so. So they do get along, those two?
COOPER: Yes, they do.
BEHAR: He used to say he wrote songs so that Mick would look good on stage.
COOPER: Well, I mean, back and forth, those two guys back and forth, I thought the book might have sunk the Rolling Stones.
BEHAR: But they don`t care.
COOPER: I don`t think they care at all.
BEHAR: I think they`re just happy making gazillions of dollars.
COOPER: They`re rehearsing right now for a new tour.
BEHAR: They`re a still phenomenal, you know, tour group. Just like you are.
COOPER: They`re the Stones. And we look up to the Stones, because they were -- I was in high school when the Stones came out. And we just went -- this is -- my parents hate these guys so much, I love them.
BEHAR: And your parents hated them.
COOPER: Oh, yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: They liked the Beatles.
BEHAR: They liked -- well, the Beatles had that cute haircut and they were, you know, can`t find me love, it was all very nice.
COOPER: Yes, it was.
BEHAR: And the Stones were dangerous.
COOPER: The Stones were dangerous. We looked at the Stones and said, we`re going to make them look like choir boys.
BEHAR: And you did -- but I mean, in retrospect, do you think you were more dangerous than the Stones?
COOPER: I think that we were more dangerous. See, we weren`t druggies. We weren`t getting busted for drugs and things like that. I think that our terror was more cerebral. I think that when people saw us, saw the name Alice Cooper and a snake and the makeup, and they looked at their kids -- and the kids were going, yes! Because the parents were going --
BEHAR: Well, they see those, and they see the snake, and they see, you know, first of all, they see a phallic symbol. They see the makeup and they think you`re just whacked out on drugs, I guess, that`s--
COOPER: But if you have hit records, it changes the world. A hit record changes you. You go from this kind of, you know, odd little band to an important band, and then if you look like that, and you have the records to hang it on, then you`re dangerous.
BEHAR: Then you`re dangerous, right. OK. When we come back, I want to talk to you about this golf obsession. And you`re a born-again Christian? That is really interesting stuff, when we come back. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
BEHAR: That was shock rocker Alice Cooper meeting his match on the Muppet Show. And he`s back in now. OK, first of all, is Kermit a diva?
COOPER: Kermit was fine, it was Miss Piggy.
BEHAR: Miss Piggy is a diva.
COOPER: Yes. She was all over -- I mean she had -- there were little paw marks all over me. You know, and I had to keep -- I had to keep telling, Kermit, it`s not me, it`s her.
BEHAR: OK, now, you`re born-again Christian. Which means that -- when did that happen?
COOPER: Well, my dad was a pastor.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
COOPER: My granddad was an evangelist. My wife`s father is a pastor. And I was the prodigal son. I mean, I grew up in a church ...
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: And then I went as far away as you could and then came back.
BEHAR: When did you come back?
COOPER: About 20 years ago.
BEHAR: Really?
COOPER: You know, well, I quit drinking, and that, you know, that clears you up a little bit, and it starts putting things in the perspective of what`s important, you know. I mean, how many cars do you need. How many houses do you need, how --
BEHAR: Exactly.
COOPER: That lifestyle only goes so far, and then you start thinking about what`s important.
BEHAR: That`s right. That`s right.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: But in those days, you know, Gene Simmons was on the show. I`ve heard this before from him anyway -- he claims that he had sex with 5,000 women. Do you believe that?
COOPER: At the same time?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: If that`s true, wouldn`t he be in traction at this point?
COOPER: Yes, first of all --
BEHAR: I mean, do you think it`s true?
COOPER: No, I don`t think that`s possible.
BEHAR: Well --
COOPER: After a show, I don`t think so.
BEHAR: 5,000. What about you? How many have you had?
COOPER: I think -- when I was young, I was a rock star.
BEHAR: Do you even remember?
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: No. That`s --
COOPER: I don`t remember -- I don`t remember 18 to probably 26.
BEHAR: See, that`s the beauty of the whole thing.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: You`re an alcoholic, you`re a druggie --
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: You`re acting out, you`re having sex --
COOPER: You are rock stars!
BEHAR: You`re just -- you`re just being a bad boy all around--
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: Then you wake up, and you become a born-again Christian and you don`t even remember what you did.
COOPER: No, it`s great. You just forget about it.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Yeah. It`s -- well, the good thing about it is the fact that you honestly don`t remember. There`s three albums I did that I don`t remember doing. I don`t remember writing them, I don`t remember recording them, I don`t remember performing them, and they end up being my fans` favorite albums. What? I go -- really? I kind of like these other ones that were the big hits. And they go, no, no, no, these were the ones we liked. Wow.
BEHAR: Are your fans like the Deadheads? Like the Grateful Dead had the Deadheads following them everywhere?
COOPER: Well, my fans are like -- I always appeal to the outcast. I --you know, my fans were not Eagles fans. My fans were the ...
BEHAR: I love the Eagles too.
COOPER: Eagles are great.
BEHAR: I love the Eagles.
COOPER: But my fans were those guys that didn`t relate with those fans. But there are a lot of the outcasts. There`s tons of them out there.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: And I was their guy.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
COOPER: Right. So, yes, and my fans were getting militant about this -- about this Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thing. I mean, I`m glad I got in so they calmed down a little bit.
BEHAR: Calm the masses.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: And what`s this I read that you used to go out with Raquel Welch?
COOPER: Well, my manager used to manage Raquel Welch. Now, this was right when I met my wife.
BEHAR: Ah!
COOPER: And she was 18 years old.
BEHAR: Your wife was 18.
COOPER: She was 18 years old, and she was in the show, "Walk Into My Nightmare" show. I just met her and I was in love. Just about the time that I met Raquel Welch.
BEHAR: Oh!
COOPER: And if it was any other woman, I would have, of course, gone that way, but I was in love with this little 90-pound ballerina.
BEHAR: So you never shtupped Raquel?
COOPER: No. I -- honestly, when you`re in love, you can`t even see anybody else.
BEHAR: That`s a beautiful story.
COOPER: Right? It`s true. And so, I mean it was like -- I`m still with her. And I respect Raquel Welch and I think she`s the greatest thing in the world.
BEHAR: But you never did Raquel.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: I wonder if she regrets that?
COOPER: I don`t know. We`ll never know. Won`t we? My wife -- I say, you know, my wife always says the smartest thing you ever did.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Now, a bit -- this other thing I read about you. You have these demons, you`re talking about. Your drinking was legendary, and everything --
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: They said here that you were in rehab in a mental asylum.
COOPER: It was --
BEHAR: Why were you in a mental asylum?
COOPER: You know, I don`t know. I woke up there and I realized I was the only one in there for any kind of alcohol or drug or anything. Everybody else was in there for like chopping up their uncle and putting him in a trunk, and, you know. And -- I started going, why am I in here? You know.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I ended up writing an album about it called "From the Inside." And it was -- with Bernie Taupin, Bernie was my best friend. So I said, when I get out of here, I got so much stuff. This is so good. You know. But honestly, I started talking to people and they started giving me their stories, and I was going, really OK? You know.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I was the only one who was in there for alcohol.
BEHAR: So did it kill you? Did it help you? It helped you.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: What do you think about Charlie Sheen then? Having been where, you know ...
COOPER: Charlie`s an interesting case. And I can relate to him on one level. I was the most functional alcoholic around. I never missed a line, I never missed a show. I was totally functional on every level. And I kind of see that with him.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: He shows up, he knows his lines, makes people laugh, and then he goes crazy in his personal life.
BEHAR: Well, that`s the thing, you`re functioning in one area, but you`re not functioning in the other, I think is what`s happening--
COOPER: Yeah, well, I can see what he`s talking about. He says look, I`m doing my job, what do you want from me? Why are you even in my personal life?
BEHAR: Yeah.
COOPER: And I kind of go, you know, I mean he may be clinically insane, but he does his job.
BEHAR: There was that discussion going on.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: Is he on drugs or is he in post drugs stoop (ph) craziness, or is he really bipolar? What is it? We don`t know.
COOPER: I think he`s found some -- a wave that he`s riding --
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: -- that`s kind of working for him somehow, you know, and I don`t know if he even thinks it`s a bad thing.
BEHAR: No. So, you`re on a tour and you also have a radio show?
COOPER: Yes. I do the radio show from the road.
BEHAR: And what do you do on the radio show?
COOPER: Well, I said I`ll take this show if I can play what I want to play. First of all, I`m so tired of this top 40. We only hear the same songs over and over and over and over. I said if you let me play songs, deeper cuts, I`ll take the show. I`ve been on eight years now. And -- you did radio. You did radio.
BEHAR: I did radio. But I was talking. You`re a disc jockey?
COOPER: Yeah, I do that. Well, I mean, I tape my show. And I end up --
BEHAR: And you find music you want?
COOPER: Oh yeah, I want to play --
BEHAR: Where can we find it? I want to listen to it.
COOPER: It streams all over the place. It`s Alice at Night with Alice Cooper.
BEHAR: Aha.
COOPER: You know. And it`s really a fun show because I know all the backstage stories, too. I can tell stories about -- about everybody.
BEHAR: You know, and you`re living to tell it.
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: You know, you`re here, which is great. You know.
COOPER: Well, I mostly tell stories about people that are dead, so they can`t, you know, deny it. You know.
BEHAR: OK, when we come back, tell me one short story about -- a horrible story about someone who`s dead, all right?
COOPER: OK.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Alice Cooper. What did you say?
COOPER: I said sometimes I see those films, that scares me a little bit.
BEHAR: So, first, before we get to the story about a dead person, I hear you have a restaurant and you name the dishes after famous people.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: If I were a dish, what would you ...
COOPER: Oh, you`d be great.
BEHAR: Would it be tongue?
COOPER: Oh, that would be good because we don`t have a tongue. We have a two-foot hot dog called The Big Unit.
BEHAR: Who`s that named after? Hello?
COOPER: Randy Johnson, the pitcher is called the Big Unit. But every time we serve it, the sirens go off, an alarm goes off. You know, and Big Unit coming through -- and you put it down, and that`s obscene. I mean, it`s like that big. But it`s a really great hot dog.
BEHAR: This is in Phoenix, Arizona.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: Phoenix, Arizona.
COOPER: It`s called Cooperstown.
BEHAR: Well, there was a Cooperstown in New York State ...
COOPER: Well, it`s Alice Cooper`s town.
BEHAR: Oh, Alice Cooper`s town. Right. So -- That`s great.
COOPER: Yeah, but we do change the sandwiches all the time. If you want a sandwich, we`ll ...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I want (ph) a tongue sandwich.
COOPER: OK.
BEHAR: Although no one -- no one buys tongue.
COOPER: No, they would.
BEHAR: So just say it`s tongue and then give them ham.
COOPER: We`ll give them pastrami.
BEHAR: Exactly. All right. OK. So, who is the dead person?
COOPER: All right. Elvis Presley.
BEHAR: Oh yes!
COOPER: Yes. I went to meet Elvis Presley, I went upstairs, I get in the elevator, it`s Liza Minnelli, Chubby Checker, Linda Lovelace and me. Interesting group. We go upstairs, Elvis comes out, and Elvis looked great. It was 1962 ...
BEHAR: This was not the fat Elvis?
COOPER: Oh, no, this was the good Elvis ...
BEHAR: Yeah, the thin Elvis.
COOPER: And he comes out, he says, hey man, you`re the cat with the snake, aren`t you? I said yes. He said, cool man, he said, come here, I want to show you something. I go in the other room, he opens a drawer in the bath -- in the kitchen, takes out a loaded .38, puts it in my hand. And he says, OK, man, I just want to show you how to take this gun out of somebody`s hand.
I`m standing with a loaded .38 on Elvis. A little guy on my shoulder is going, shoot him. You know? And I go, I can`t shoot him, he`s Elvis Presley. And the other guy says, don`t shoot him, wound him. So I didn`t do either one. He knocks the gun out of my hand, he has my -- boot to my throat, and I`m like that`s great, Elvis. That`s great, you know. But he was an interesting character, because he was so protected that he didn`t have a life.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: And I realized at that point I never wanted to be that big--
BEHAR: Right.
COOPER: Where you couldn`t go out and go to the movies, you couldn`t go shopping. You couldn`t --
BEHAR: Oh, it`s awful.
COOPER: No, he was so protected that his big thing in life was he got in a fight with three guys and he had the police reports. And he showed me these police reports like they were gold.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I kicked this guy right here and broke his arm, and I hit -- you know, and he`s showing -- his eyes are big. And he`s showing them to me like this, and I`m going, that`s your favorite -- that`s your most prized possession?
BEHAR: Right. And not exactly.
COOPER: Shocking. Yes.
BEHAR: And just like no conversation at all.
COOPER: None. I mean, the guy -- he couldn`t do anything.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: Interesting guy. I mean, did you know him when he was bloated?
COOPER: Didn`t -- I didn`t -- I saw him after that a little bit when he popped up out of a car one time, "hey, Alice, how are you doing?" And all I saw was this guy pulling him back.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: And that`s our show. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
