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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Jane Lynch; Interview With William Shatner
Aired December 22, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Don`t believe in global warming? Then how do you explain Jane Lynch? She`s hot, hot, hot, and she just hosted the Emmy awards, and her hit series, "Glee" premiered this week.
In her new memoir, "Happy Accidents", she battled demons revealing her struggles with alcohol and being gay. And she`s here with me now.
Welcome to the show, Jane.
LYNCH: Thank you.
BEHAR: Lovely to have you here.
LYNCH: Thank you.
BEHAR: You know, the ratings are up for the Emmys. Very high.
LYNCH: Oh, good.
BEHAR: You did great. Congratulations.
LYNCH: Well, that`s nice to hear. Good.
BEHAR: Well, you know, it`s not an easy thing what you did.
LYNCH: No.
BEHAR: Carrying that whole damn thing.
LYNCH: Tried not to think about that.
BEHAR: On your back like that.
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: I was -- I had the weight of the world on my shoulders and --
BEHAR: You did.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: But I mean you were hosting and then you lost. Did that annoy you?
LYNCH: Not at all.
BEHAR: Didn`t you want to say "Screw you, California?"
LYNCH: It was one less thing to do that night. It was one -- there was a part of me that when they said Julie Bowen, I went, ok.
BEHAR: You were relieved.
LYNCH: Good Julie. And good on you, and now I don`t have to think of like a speech or something. I was fine.
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s just look at a moment from the show last night, the Emmy show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sweetheart, can we have some coffee?
LYNCH: You`re hilarious. I`m not a secretary, I`m the host of the Emmys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you should be doing is learning how to type and firing the guy who gave you that man`s haircut.
LYNCH: Well, a lot has changed since 1965. In fact, women can marry other women. Hey, Peggy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s funny.
LYNCH: Thank you.
BEHAR: That was funny. But you know in the 63-year history of the Emmys, you are the third woman.
LYNCH: Third woman -- solo, who`s done it solo.
BEHAR: Who`s done it solo. So I mean we really haven`t come that far when it comes to the Emmys.
LYNCH: No. We had a joke -- can I do a joke here that we didn`t do because we thought maybe it was tasteless. So I`m going to do it on your show if you don`t mind.
BEHAR: Yes, please. Well this is a taped show.
LYNCH: You know, Lucille Ball once hosted the Emmys but she had to do it with Desi. And I can understand that, what if Lucy got her period.
BEHAR: What would happen then.
LYNCH: What would we do?
I`m so in menopause right now, we were safe.
BEHAR: They like women who are in menopause.
LYNCH: We`re no longer threatening. We`ve lost our ovaries, right. They`ve like dried up.
BEHAR: I think they like lesbians also in Hollywood.
LYNCH: Oh yes. It`s very safe. I think so too.
BEHAR: It`s very safe. It`s no threat. They don`t have to say, she wouldn`t sleep with me because they know you won`t.
LYNCH: Because I won`t.
BEHAR: And you can be funny when you`re a lesbian. You`re not threatening.
LYNCH: Exactly. Oh that woman. She thinks she has a sense -- she`s a lesbian, I`m not going to sleep with her. She`s hilarious.
BEHAR: Exactly. That`s exactly.
LYNCH: Yes. Right.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, let`s talk about your book.
You came from a loving family.
LYNCH: I did.
BEHAR: They sound like a nice group of people.
LYNCH: So what`s my problem, right?
BEHAR: You were battling demons.
LYNCH: Oh.
BEHAR: Let`s hear what -- here`s what you wrote. "I never felt quite right in my body," you wrote. "With my family, the world growing up, I didn`t feel like the other girls seemed to feel. I wanted to be a boy." How old were you when you wanted to be a boy?
LYNCH: Oh, from the start. As early as -- I felt I was in the wrong sex, I really did. I would go into my dad`s room and put on his clothes. And very "Mad Men" of me, I would pretend to have a cocktail. This was in the mid `60s. And I just felt more myself in a suit and a tie.
I looked at my mom and her life, and I thought, I don`t want that at all. I don`t think my mom wanted it either. I think my mom did want to be out there and have a career. She loved working. As soon as we were old enough to feed ourselves, she was out.
BEHAR: Yes. So you identified with the guys.
LYNCH: I did, totally.
BEHAR: Because the guys had a better life at that time. Yes.
LYNCH: They had all the power.
BEHAR: But what makes you different from the typical girl who had that kind of conscience?
LYNCH: Well, I wore my dad`s clothes. That made a difference.
BEHAR: That must have been it.
LYNCH: Yes, I think so. You know, I wanted to -- any chance I had to dress up as a boy, like Halloween, I would be a pirate or a ghost that wore a tie. A hobo.
BEHAR: It`s true, because I was always a ballerina. And I played with dolls.
LYNCH: You were a little girl. Sure.
BEHAR: I also played doctor, hello, with one of the girls.
LYNCH: Well, yes, that`s perfectly -- that`s on the scale --
BEHAR: That`s on the continuum of heterosexuality.
LYNCH: Exactly.
You know what, we`re all -- I`m just really, really gay.
BEHAR: You are?
LYNCH: I am. If -- here is the spectrum, I`m gay.
BEHAR: How gay are you?
LYNCH: I have no interest in men sexually at all. I don`t.
BEHAR: Right.
LYNCH: I want to be them. I get the male thing. I like being that for a woman. But I also like being a woman too. I like being girly.
BEHAR: You can play both.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s beautiful.
LYNCH: It`s fun. Yes.
BEHAR: When did you -- at what age did you decide you wanted to sleep with girls?
LYNCH: I didn`t know -- at first it was romanticism and sex did not come into the picture at all. It was high school. You know, I started getting -- I would crush out on girls earlier than that, but high school was like when I was going oh, boy, it was knocking on my consciousness door going -- and then I heard there was a name for it, it was called "gay". And oh, my God I have that.
BEHAR: And lesbian.
LYNCH: And lesbian. What an awful word.
BEHAR: It`s not a great word.
LYNCH: No, it`s not.
BEHAR: That`s why we like to say lezzy.
LYNCH: Yes, right. You have to make it cute. That`s cute.
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: Remember on "All in the Family", there was a lesbian compact in the 70s. We have not gone far -- we haven`t gone far enough in society, but I remember Archie saying, "Liz is a les?" You remember that.
BEHAR: At least they threw it out there, though.
LYNCH: Right. Wasn`t that great?
BEHAR: Yes. That was great stuff.
LYNCH: Yes it was.
BEHAR: But then you say -- it says in your book, you thought that being gay was a disease?
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: What kind of disease was it? Like a heat rash?
LYNCH: Right. It`s an affliction, a mental affliction.
BEHAR: A mental affliction.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: You aren`t alone. The American Psychiatric Association agreed with you in those days.
LYNCH: I know. I read it. They did, yes. A friend of mine was studying to be a nurse and I took the book and I looked up homosexuality and it was like ways you can -- there is no cure for it. The best thing to do is like keep the barbarian down as Michele Bachmann`s husband said. They`re like barbarians, you have to discipline the barbarians.
BEHAR: He said they`re like barbarians.
LYNCH: Yes. In between a shuffle and a two step. A kickball change.
BEHAR: He needs to pray the barbarians away.
LYNCH: He does. Yes.
BEHAR: And then the other thing you said that you developed a raging crush on Ron Howard. Why not The Fonz?
LYNCH: Because he`s too manly.
BEHAR: Too manly.
LYNCH: Yes, he had -- you could tell he had facial hair. I mean Richie Cunningham`s balls hadn`t dropped. I can say that, right?
BEHAR: Yes. Of course you can.
LYNCH: That was Richie Cunningham -- his ball`s dropping. So he was safe. He was the safe boy-man. You know.
BEHAR: Even I -- I was in love with James Dean when I was a kid because he seemed like the kind who wouldn`t touch you and molest you and play with your nipples or anything.
LYNCH: He would leave your nipples alone.
BEHAR: He would leave your nipples alone, whereas like Elvis Presley would be right on your nipples.
LYNCH: Oh, he would be like tweaking.
BEHAR: I was scared of Elvis Presley. It`s similar in a certain way.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: Tell me about the -- you had this friend, this boy friend, I guess, right.
LYNCH: Yes. Chris.
BEHAR: Chris -- and it was sort of a serious part of your book that was kind of touching to me because he a flamboyant kind of gay guy?
LYNCH: Yes. He was out there. No one was out. But he did not hide who he was. He did not fit into the confines of what was considered normal in Dalton, Illinois. He wore parachute pants and he had a perm and he was out there, who he was.
BEHAR: He must have stuck out like a sore thumb?
LYNCH: Oh, yes. He did.
BEHAR: Was he scared to walk around like that?
LYNCH: No. I think that`s why he didn`t get the crap beat out of him because he had a confidence about himself. And he also was really funny, hilarious. And my sister adored him. He would just walk into the room and she would fall apart laughing. He was a hilarious, really funny guy.
BEHAR: And then what happened to the relationship with you?
LYNCH: We were best friends and he started to have an affair with -- I was doing God`s (INAUDIBLE) -- he started having an affair with Jesus. He was like John the Baptist and they kind of left me, they dumped me. We were kind of a trifecta and they dumped me. And they started having an affair but I couldn`t face it. And he didn`t tell me, of course.
My mom said, out of nowhere, do you think maybe Chris is gay. And I said no. But I wrote him a letter and said your girlish ways, your parachute pants and your afro are embarrassing me, and I don`t want to be your friend any more. It was so much about my own disowning the inner les. The inner les was being denied.
BEHAR: The disease.
LYNCH: The diseased inner les inside of me.
BEHAR: Did he write back to you?
LYNCH: No. But he was wonderful about it.
BEHAR: He was.
LYNCH: He was, you know.
BEHAR: Did he change his outfits?
LYNCH: Absolutely not.
And about four or five years -- I would see him occasionally, but we were not the soul mates we were. I called him when I came home from college and I said I`m gay too. He said I know.
BEHAR: Oh. Isn`t that something?
LYNCH: And he accepted my apology and we were back again.
BEHAR: You`re friends again.
LYNCH: Still friends.
BEHAR: He understood.
LYNCH: He did. He got it. A very forgiving guy.
BEHAR: Isn`t that nice. Where is he now.
LYNCH: He lives here on 23rd Street.
BEHAR: And he`s not praying the gay away?
LYNCH: No, he`s not at all. He`s going, yes, baby.
BEHAR: Ok. We`re just getting started with Miss Jane Lynch. So don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with "Glee" star Jane Lynch. You`re so funny Jane, I just think you`re terrific. And how did you finally tell your parent that you were gay? Well what -- how old were you?
LYNCH: Thirty-two.
BEHAR: Oh 32.
LYNCH: I was 32. I was having relationships.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: I was living a gay lifestyle, if you will. I -- I was having --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What does that mean, a gay lifestyle?
LYNCH: I don`t know. I was having relationships with women, but other than that, I wasn`t different from my straight friends. But I felt a distance with my family. And I was really sad about it and going home for Christmas just felt terrible.
And my parents knew something was up. They didn`t exactly --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Not a clue.
LYNCH: There`s not a clue. Then I met this woman who was a therapist, and she -- and I made an appointment with her, and I -- I`ve shared about it in an AA meeting. And she -- she said, you can heal that. And I said, ok, so I made an appointment with her. And she said, "Why don`t you write a letter to them that you don`t have to send. And just be really honest tell your feelings and see how that feels." So I wrote this beautiful letter that was really honest.
BEHAR: How did it go? Like what dear mom and dad --
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: It was like, "Dear mom and dad, I`ve been so afraid to tell you this because I was afraid you wouldn`t love me. And -- and this is something that`s been, I feel us growing apart. And I really love you so much and I don`t want to lose this relationship. So I`m going to take this chance. I`m praying for our love."
BEHAR: Oh.
LYNCH: Yes it was good.
BEHAR: It makes you cry.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: I could start crying right now over this.
LYNCH: Yes, I know. And my parents were great.
BEHAR: They were great. So you mailed the letter?
LYNCH: I mailed it. Yes, of course, that`s the ruse, that`s the ruse, they tell you, you don`t have to mail it.
BEHAR: You don`t have to mail it.
LYNCH: And then it`s so wonderful --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And then they bring stamps to the sessions.
So -- so you mailed it and they called you right away?
LYNCH: Yes, so I called my brother and I said look, are you sitting down? Yes, and I said I sent a letter to mom and dad, I`m gay. And he was like, oh thank God, I thought you were sick, so they thought I had AIDs or something.
BEHAR: Oh.
LYNCH: You know when they were reading, the first thing got, oh my God.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: And then -- and my dad is so sweet. He said -- my mom said Jane`s gay. And he said is that bad? And she said no. And then he said, oh ok, but you had to ask her, I love it. He said, should we be upset about it? And my parents loved each other and they talked about everything and they never talked about this.
BEHAR: No.
LYNCH: And they both suspected.
BEHAR: They both suspected?
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: They were fearful of the disease --
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: -- that they had heard about from the American Psychiatric Association.
LYNCH: Yes. And they go through to that all the time, yes.
BEHAR: Exactly.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s good bathroom reading.
LYNCH: Right, exactly.
BEHAR: But -- but -- so it sounds like you came from a great family, but the drinking, what was that about?
LYNCH: Well, I`m from a drinking culture too.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: I mean, like my mom will always -- today she still says this you know, "Jane just went through a phase in college and thought she was an alcoholic." And I -- I suffered over my drinking, I suffered over the fact that I lived for it -- that I lived each day to get to that part of the day where I could drink.
And my hangovers were terrible. It was emotionally just killing me that -- that I was doing this to myself. But there were people around me who drank as much as me and lived a fine live.
So you know, my bottom was -- my bottom.
BEHAR: Yes, so you were what you call functioning alcoholic?
LYNCH: I was a functioning alcoholic. I was paying my bills. I was showing up for work. I was doing all the right things like being the good girl I`ve always been.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: But I -- had this like, dark secret that I was when I got home, that was what I was looking forward to. I would go to a bar, hang out with people and then pick up a six pack on the way home.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
LYNCH: And you know, that was my secret and it was a -- knocked on my consciousness door just like the gay thing did. And finally one day I -- I stopped drinking. And I always say I was struck sober but like by the sober fairy or something.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
LYNCH: But it`s actually years of -- of that dawning realization when I came.
BEHAR: Well, people out there who don`t understand how gays feel about being in the closet. How do you explain it, what the pain is like? Can you explain that?
LYNCH: You know that it`s who you are.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: You know that you didn`t ask for it. It is so integral to your -- your identity as a human being and it`s the -- you`re being told there`s something wrong with it. And you know there`s nothing you can do about it. You know it can`t be prayed away.
BEHAR: No because you see the girl and you like her.
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: Yes, there`s nothing you can do about that.
BEHAR: Or the boy. Yes.
LYNCH: You know, except like what Marcus Bachmann said, you have to tame the barbarians.
BEHAR: Yes train the barbarians. Well, he`s misguided, I mean, even if he`s not gay himself.
LYNCH: Oh totally misguided.
BEHAR: Yes, he doesn`t understand. They refuse to accept that it`s not a choice that people are the way they are.
LYNCH: Why do they care?
BEHAR: How many songs do we have to hear? "I am What I am", "Born this Way".
LYNCH: Yes, I know.
BEHAR: How many freaking songs do we have to make up?
LYNCH: I know, I know.
BEHAR: I mean, really the whole music --
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: I know and how many songs does Lady Gaga, how many outfits does Lady Gaga have to wear, how many eggs does she have to appear in for people to get this.
BEHAR: Get it already.
LYNCH: It`s who we are and there`s nothing wrong with who we are. We are made by -- if you believe in God, we were made by God.
BEHAR: Yes. Oh they think it`s an error, that God made a mistake. But then how could God be all powerful and all knowing if he made a mistake.
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: All right, you know, don`t even listen when you get into God - -
BEHAR: But that now you married a woman?
LYNCH: I did. Yes.
BEHAR: You married a woman in California?
LYNCH: No, in Massachusetts.
BEHAR: Oh yes, is it legal in California now?
LYNCH: It was for about that long.
BEHAR: I know it`s not again, they overturned it.
LYNCH: No it`s not, they took it away, yes.
BEHAR: You met her through "Two and a Half Men", you`re on "Two and a Half Men"?
LYNCH: We`re sort of -- she`s -- my wife is a psychologist, and a friend of hers was a big fan of "Two and a Half Men" and love my psychiatrist character and said, oh Lara, my wife, you should watch the show. And - - and that`s kind of how it happened.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: She came up to me -- Lara came to me at an event and said, my friend is a big fan of -- a big fan of yours. And we immediately connected. It was truly one of those love of first sight things. And it was lovely and I deserved it, I was 49 years old for God sake. And that hadn`t happened to me ever.
And she`s just lovely and wonderful and we`re married a year --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And you`re a late bloomer.
LYNCH: Yes, everything`s late. I know.
BEHAR: So am I, I think it`s the best way to go.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: Because if you get it early, you don`t know what to do with it, and then it goes away a lot of times.
LYNCH: Yes, yes. Yes, yes.
BEHAR: So it`s actually better.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: But you`re also a parent to her children?
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: How many kids has she got?
LYNCH: She has one child who lives with us and then, a child with her ex, who`s living with her ex-husband.
BEHAR: And I was reading that you call the child -- what`s the name, Hailey or something?
LYNCH: Hayden.
BEHAR: Hayden. And you said that she was like the Dalai Lama?
LYNCH: Yes she is.
BEHAR: What do you mean by that?
LYNCH: She`s just -- she`s this kind of this exalted being, she`s kind of evolutionarily -- you know, kind of -- she comes from her heart 100 percent of the time. And she`s still a kid.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: But she`s happy to her core. She sees the best in everybody, everybody. She`s the most resilient kid I`ve ever met. She weathers the storms --
BEHAR: Does she want to be in showbiz?
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: She does.
LYNCH: She wants to be an actress, she did "Les Mis" this summer. She`s 9. And she did "Bye-bye Birdie", she played Rosie in "Bye-bye Birdie". And she`s doing "Grease" now; we don`t know what part she`s playing but she`s going to be --
BEHAR: That`s fabulous.
LYNCH: She loves it.
BEHAR: And she has you to help her.
LYNCH: I know. It`s great. She`s a scientist of comedy the way I am. She rewinds moments and, you know, watches them over and over.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s great. I want to talk about the comedy when we come back about you`re really funny.
LYNCH: Thank you.
BEHAR: I`ll be right back with Jane Lynch. Ok.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: And I`m back with Jane Lynch.
Ok. We have a "Frosted Flakes" commercial that you did. It was directed by the great Christopher Guest. Let`s watch that and then we`ll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Frosted Flakes" are about so much more than just great taste. There`s that, and then there`s Tony, you know. Then there is the frosting and then there`s Tony.
LYNCH: All right. Take a picture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Got it. He looks different.
LYNCH: I think that`s a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re right.
LYNCH: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: How long ago was that? You had that very short hair.
LYNCH: I know. That would have been 1999, 1998.
BEHAR: Yes. That was your first break?
LYNCH: That commercial? I had done a ton of commercials, but that was an important commercial because Christopher Guest directed it.
BEHAR: He did.
LYNCH: And then about four or five months later I ran into him at a restaurant one morning. And he looked at me and said I had forgotten about you. But I probably would have remembered at some point. But he said I`m casting a movie, come to my office today.
BEHAR: What was the movie?
LYNCH: "Best in Show".
BEHAR: "Best in Show", one of the funniest movies he`s ever made.
LYNCH: Yes. I think so too.
BEHAR: But isn`t it fortuitous that you happened to run into him in a restaurant?
LYNCH: I know. A happy accident.
BEHAR: Wow.
LYNCH: Yes, absolutely. And as I was going into my day, I thought, what if I had gone to this restaurant instead or what if I didn`t go out for breakfast? Would this have not happened?
BEHAR: Yes. But it`s a lesson for people who want to break into and are not in it yet, to follow-up, because he said he would have remembered you maybe, maybe not. But if you had called him or written to him, yes, I like that girl.
LYNCH: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: I must show a clip from "Best in Show". I really want to see that, it was very funny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNCH: And we have a little bit of a family dynamic going here; pretty much mirrors what I grew up with. My father was the task master, the disciplinarian, which is what I do. I`m the mommy/disciplinarian.
JENNIFER COOLIDGE, ACTRESS: Oh, disciplinarian.
LYNCH: That`s right.
COOLIDGE: Like Mr. Punishment.
LYNCH: Oh, well. You know -- and I also reward. But Sherry`s responsible for the unconditional love.
COOLIDGE: And the decorative abilities.
LYNCH: Exactly. The heart and the soul which is what my mother did and that was her job, you know. She was there for the unconditional love. It worked for my family until my mom committed suicide in `81.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was the very funny, also Jennifer Coolidge in that spot. She`s a pisser.
LYNCH: She does.
BEHAR: She really is.
And the two of you -- I mean you`re playing a lesbian trainer there?
LYNCH: Right.
BEHAR: That was your first movie.
LYNCH: My first movie. And I never had one thought of my first big movie I`m playing a lesbian. That never crossed my mind.
BEHAR: Because a lot of people, it would have crossed their minds because sometimes they think it`s going to kill them in show business.
LYNCH: All I wanted was the work. I was so thrilled to have the work and I obviously was more secure with who I was at that point.
BEHAR: Yes, yes. But I mean a lot of times you`ll hear that gay actors don`t want to -- or can`t play gay in the movies, because they`ll get stereotyped.
LYNCH: Right, right.
BEHAR: And yet straight actors can play gay easily.
LYNCH: Right. And then they look like heroes.
BEHAR: Oh, he plays gay, he`s straight. How fabulous.
LYNCH: How wonderful for him.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: And then he gets to go home and be, you know, socially accepted.
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: Ok. Next, a huge surprise to Jane that you don`t want to miss. And no, it`s not a membership in the LPGA. Look it up. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with "Glee" star Jane Lynch. Her new memoir is called "Happy Accidents." There are a lot of happy accidents in your life.
LYNCH: I bet everybody has them, but I just actually took the time to count them up.
BEHAR: I know, just the one you just talked about, running into Christopher Guest. There`s a lot of luck involved in being successful.
LYNCH: It is. And you know, I kind of came to the conclusion of -- that my life takes care of me if I just relax. The thing that is most important for me to focus on is always what`s right in front of me. I could spend my entire life wishing I was over there doing this and blah, blah, blah, and what was right in front of me was like Second City. When I got to Second City, I was like, I want to be doing drama over at the North Light, but here I am in Second City, and I ended up thriving there. I found my calling in sketch comedy. I love it.
BEHAR: You`re very good at it.
LYNCH: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: You are so good at it. It seems like the shows "Ellen" and "Will & Grace" made it OK to be on TV? Am I right?
LYNCH: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: That was a big jump for society and us gays.
BEHAR: I have a little surprise for you.
LYNCH: Oh, really?
BEHAR: Your idol, Carol Burnett.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: Was on "Glee." And she`s on the phone.
LYNCH: Oh, you`re kidding.
BEHAR: Hi, Carol.
CAROL BURNETT, ACTRESS: Hi, Joy. Hi, Jane.
LYNCH: Hi, Carol, how are you?
BURNETT: I`m terrific. And I just wanted to say did you get my e- mail about how great you were at the Emmys?
LYNCH: Yes, and I sent you XOO back, did you get that?
BURNETT: Oh, you did--
LYNCH: I didn`t bother to say anything else because I just hosted the Emmys, Carol. But thank you so much. Because that meant so much to me.
BEHAR: Carol is your idol, is she not?
LYNCH: Oh my God, yes. I grew up watching her show. In fact, I know that Vicki Lawrence (ph) -- and I told you this story, Carol -- I got on this show because of writing a fan letter to Carol, so I wrote one to Vicki Lawrence hoping that she would put me on the show. It didn`t work out, but she did write me back.
BEHAR: Who, Carol?
LYNCH: Vicki Lawrence did write me back, and I took a picture of her letter and sent it to Carol, too, and said, see?
BURNETT: I loved it, so did Vicki.
BEHAR: Carol, how did it come to be that you were on "Glee?" How did that all happen?
BURNETT: Well, actually, I wrote the foreword to Jane`s wonderful book, by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: And I explain in there that I first became aware of Jane when I saw "Best in Show." And I stayed to see who was playing, you know, who this new person was that Christopher Guest was directing, and I noted Jane`s name, and I was just hoping that she would be in some more of his movies, and luckily she was. And so I just became a fan right from the get-go. And then I was fortunate enough to play her mother-in-law in a movie that no one saw.
LYNCH: No one saw.
BEHAR: What`s it called?
BURNETT: I had the best time. It was because Jane and I had most of our scenes together. She made me laugh so hard even off-camera.
LYNCH: Oh, God, was that a coup. I remember the first one that when I made Carol Burnett laugh--
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: -- when you said this is a person backing up--
LYNCH: Backing up, you know when people back up, they always have a horrible face? So I said, here`s my backup face. And I went like -- and she laughed so hard.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I laughed so hard, I should have invested in Depends.
BEHAR: Carol is a good laugher. She`s a great audience.
LYNCH: She is. She loves to laugh.
BEHAR: And you play Jane`s Nazi-hunting mother who abandoned her and then returned. Let`s watch a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNCH: Well, mother, this song still doesn`t explain why you abandoned your children.
BURNETT: Ohio was stifling and we couldn`t wait to get out of the place, and I told you, Sue, we`re going to be hunting Nazis.
LYNCH: And pop said, Sue, this may take a little while.
BURNETT: Well, those Nazis are slippery. We were hunting them way down in Lima, Peru.
LYNCH: And we`d get post cards from Niagara Falls.
BURNETT: While I`m stalking Mengele in Bolivia.
LYNCH: Three times a year we`d get crackling phone calls.
Happy birthday.
BURNETT: Hunting Nazis.
LYNCH: Merry Christmas.
BURNETT: Hunting Nazis.
Home sick.
LYNCH: Abandoned.
BURNETT: Heart sick.
LYNCH: Neglected.
(together): Thank heavens we`re free!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LYNCH: It was Carol`s idea to do that. Actually, Brian`s, right, your husband`s?
BURNETT: Yes, what happened was, I called up -- I had my agent call the producer of "Glee," and just say, you know, I would come on and just sit in the background and be an extra. I didn`t care, I just wanted to be a part of that show. And also preferably to get into the sandbox and play with Jane again. And so they came up with this idea, which was pretty hysterical, me being a Nazi hunter.
(LAUGHTER)
LYNCH: She was so game, it was so ridiculous.
BEHAR: I think it`s typecasting, frankly, Carol.
BURNETT: Oh, you know this, the tattoo of a swastika on my arm?
BEHAR: It`s something Mel Gibson would love to watch.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So, Carol, we`re missing you. Aren`t missing her from television? I mean, she needs to come back.
LYNCH: Yes, hopefully she`ll be back on "Glee?" Right, Carol, don`t you think?
BURNETT: I would love it, of course.
BEHAR: And come back and sit with me again, Carol.
BURNETT: Listen, darling, whenever I`m in New York, which is not often, you will be one of the first phone calls I`ll make, so I`m going to hold you to that.
BEHAR: I`ll be here for you, darling. Thanks for coming on the show tonight also.
BURNETT: OK. Bye, sweetheart.
LYNCH: Thank you, Carol, love you.
BURNETT: Love you.
LYNCH: That was great, that was great, thank you.
BEHAR: That was great to have her in there.
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: But you played some incredible characters also. Didn`t you play something raunchy in the "40-year-Old Virgin?"
LYNCH: Yes, I played the store manager of the electronics store and I offered to deflower Steve Carell, who was a virgin at 40 years old.
BEHAR: Yes, a hilarious premise.
LYNCH: I offer myself up to him. Of course, I`m thinking he`ll be like oh, yes, of course. But he`s reluctant.
BEHAR: Let`s watch that too. I just watch all your things tonight. Let`s watch that also.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNCH: I`m very discrete, but I`ll haunt your dreams.
STEVE CARELL, ACTOR: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, that part was written originally for a man?
LYNCH: Yes.
BEHAR: That happens to you quite a lot, I`ve heard. That they`ve written for a man and then they give it to you? Why is that?
LYNCH: Well, I think it makes casting directors feel like they`re thinking outside of the box. But I`ve had really good agents who have said, these breakdowns for women today, but there`s some doctor authority roles in here, I`m going to submit you for those. Are you all right for that, if you show up and there`s a bunch of guys in the waiting room? Sure, I`ll take it.
BEHAR: You`ll take it.
LYNCH: Sure, whatever they want.
BEHAR: Also, there is another thing. I just want to see one more piece of tape before you go. Because you shared a moment with Cybill Shepherd on "The L Word," which we love. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CYBILL SHEPHERD: Yes.
LYNCH: Hot damn, lady, come here, you. You`ve made me one happy woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Cybill`s a good kisser.
LYNCH: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: I heard that she was quite overzealous.
LYNCH: She was. God bless her, when you`re afraid to do something you`ve not done something before, how you just dive in?
BEHAR: Yes.
LYNCH: Well, she had never kissed a woman on screen before.
BEHAR: How about in real life?
LYNCH: I don`t think so.
BEHAR: No?
LYNCH: I don`t think so.
BEHAR: She has a daughter who is a lesbian.
LYNCH: I`m not going to break any news here. But--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Her daughter is a lez.
LYNCH: Yes, her daughter is a lez.
(CROSSTALK)
LYNCH: Yes, so she would -- the first time we had a kissing scene, she kissed me through the whole thing.
BEHAR: She did?
LYNCH: I`m trying to talk and she is like, it`s OK, I get it.
BEHAR: She really wanted to go for it.
LYNCH: Yes, she just wanted to like dive in there. She was great, I love her, we had a wonderful time.
BEHAR: Is there anything else you want to do?
LYNCH: No.
BEHAR: Is there something you haven`t done yet?
LYNCH: No, sit here with you was kind of the goal --
BEHAR: It was fun to have you here tonight. Wasn`t she fun?
LYNCH: I had a great time.
BEHAR: This is a terrific read. People should pick up this book. Jane`s book is called "Happy Accidents." And, of course, see her in "Glee" on Fox. And you can buy the second season on DVD now already. Stay there. We`ll be right back. Thanks, Jane.
LYNCH: Thank you so much.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: From "Star Trek" to T.J. Hooker, to "Boston Legal," William Shatner has been a fixture on American TV. His new book is "Shatner Rules," your guide to understanding the Shatner-verse and the world at large.
WILLIAM SHATNER, AUTHOR, SHATNER RULES: It`s pretty good.
BEHAR: That`s very good. How are you, William?
SHATNER: I`m so good.
BEHAR: Shall I call you Bill?
SHATNER: Yes.
BEHAR: What do people call you?
SHATNER: Bill.
BEHAR: Bill. He`s just my bill.
SHATNER: Just my joy.
BEHAR: So, tell me about your book, "Shatner Rules."
SHATNER: Shatner Rules is a very funny read. Somebody interviewing me earlier today said they got a seat on the subway because they were reading the book and they were laughing out loud and people moved back and gave them her seat, and she realized all she has to do now is go on the subway with the book and laugh out loud.
BEHAR: Sometimes, that`s a sign of mental illness, especially on the subway.
(LAUGHTER)
SHATNER: But as long as you can read, there`s a certain sanity involved there. So, the book is funny. The book is really funny. And it`s a good funny light read. At the same time, there`s a little shtoop going on there.
BEHAR: A little shtoop?
SHATNER: Well, shtoop and shtap (ph).
BEHAR: Who doesn`t like a little shtoop?
SHATNER: Everybody. At any age.
BEHAR: Exactly. How old are you now? I know you tell your age, correct?
SHATNER: What do you mean tell my age? It`s being broadcast. I think there`s been a mistake in the Montreal registry`s office, they are about 20 years off. How can I be 80 years old?
BEHAR: I don`t know. You don`t look it at all.
SHATNER: Well, thanks.
BEHAR: You really don`t.
SHATNER: And you don`t look --
BEHAR: Whatever I am.
SHATNER: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But no. I don`t tell mine. I can`t even say it; it`s so high now the number that it gives me vertigo just to say the number.
SHATNER: 80 makes me puke.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But you look very good. I must tell you.
SHATNER: Good for what?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know. Good for 80. Did you ever think when you were 40 --?
SHATNER: Yes.
BEHAR: I`m never going to be 80.
SHATNER: I thought at 40, I went to bed -- it`s in the book. At 40, I went to bed for three days. I thought my life is over. I`m 40, what have I done?
BEHAR: Really?
SHATNER: Yes.
BEHAR: You did?
SHATNER: Honestly. I turned 80 some months ago, and I was in bed and I thought, what do I do? At 40, I went to bed for three days, now, I`m 80. Is like, 40, you say, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? At 80, there`s no rest of your life.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No. That`s not true. You have got another 20 years at least.
SHATNER: Have I got 20? How do you know that?
BEHAR: Because I can tell, you`re a healthy looking guy. You are alive and you are actualized and you are going to live 20 more years. I guarantee you that.
SHATNER: Thank you. That`s my guarantee. So, I got another 20 years, lots of books to tell you about I am going to write. I got an album.
BEHAR: You talk about in the book about how you got roasted. I want to watch a clip of you at the Charlie Sheen roast.
SHATNER: OK. Charlie Sheen got roasted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I personally asked William Shatner be here only because I needed some clean urine. I had to wring it out of the diaper, but it did the job.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You look great. Your skin is so tight. I can`t tell if you had a face lift or vaginal rejuvenation.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. They`re out there, these people. They`re nasty.
SHATNER: They`re out there. They`re evil, nasty people.
BEHAR: Why did you do it? Why did you sit there?
(CROSSTALK)
SHATNER: Why did you play that clip about me taking on Charlie Sheen? You`re mean, mean people. You`re in show business. You know what it`s like. You slant this. The Charlie Sheen roast was an intervention.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: On him.
SHATNER: On him. Why not have an intervention with humor? Why wouldn`t you want to do humor.
BEHAR: That is a good intervention.
SHATNER: And instead of shaming them, you poke fun at them like at a roast. That was like I had a line -- why can`t you be nice to women? Would it hurt you? Would it kill you, being nice to women, to open a door for a girl before you lock her in the closet?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s good.
SHATNER: Yes, yes, it was one of the lines. So, it`s an intervention.
BEHAR: Yes. What was he like behind the scenes? Was there --?
SHATNER: Drunk! No, no.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s the old story.
SHATNER: No. He was terrific and sane and wonderful.
BEHAR: You feel like he`s going to be fine now?
SHATNER: My gosh, yes. You know, there`s a book in what must have happened between him and the producer and --
BEHAR: Chuck Lorre.
SHATNER: Where they went and what they did and how it all came down and why. I mean, it`s very complicated psychologically, it would be something good to examine, but not here. Here, we`re examining "Shatner Rules," and here we`re examining the album, which is "Seeking Major Tom."
BEHAR: "Seeking Major Tom." So, wait a minute, before we get to that, I must ask you something you wrote in the book which is you made rush Limbaugh cry and Jon Voight cry. How did you do that? Why are they crying?
SHATNER: Because I touched their soul.
BEHAR: How? Are you sure it was just their soul that you touched?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What did you do? How did you get them there?
SHATNER: Joy, there is a way that you and I could arrive at, maybe even with the limited time for your interview show, that we could trade, they`re talking to you, that we could trade intimacies that would touch us and make us weep because it resonates. My show, "Raw Nerve" and even "Aftermath," two talk shows I had, gives me the time, because we film it, to reach in slowly and find the place of your soul, and that --
BEHAR: So what did you find? Come on.
SHATNER: Talked about Rush Limbaugh and his childhood.
BEHAR: Oh, the poor little fatty.
(LAUGHTER)
SHATNER: You see how tabloid that is? As against being earnestly and honestly involved.
BEHAR: It`s interesting. He was crying for himself. But he didn`t cry for anybody else, only himself. I love it.
SHATNER: Jon Voight, we wept over the purity of patriotism.
BEHAR: That`s beautiful. But you know, his daughter has issues with him, Jon Voight.
SHATNER: I have issues with you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know. But fortunately, I`m not related to you.
SHATNER: Or unfortunately, because I could have taken care of it.
BEHAR: She has issues with him. I would be interested to see what that`s about.
SHATNER: Well right, but I didn`t want go there.
BEHAR: But you wept over patriotism.
SHATNER: Yes. Because I didn`t want go to the tabloid thing over his daughter and that`s the difference.
BEHAR: So, the two of you were crying over the motherland?
SHATNER: No, we were crying over other areas. And you then speak of his weeping, which was so good because I didn`t go to where he was being protective, I don`t want to talk about my daughter.
BEHAR: I see. And then he cried, and Rush Limbaugh cried about the little boy that was bullied as a child, so he`s a bully now as he`s an adult. That`s interesting. We`ll have more with William Shatner in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
BEHAR: What the hell is that? OK, that`s William Shatner, "Seeking Major Tom," and he`s back with me now.
SHATNER: "Seeking Major Tom." Brilliant, marvelous album. Not necessarily because of me, but there`s 20 of greatest musicians alive today are working with me on this album.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
SHATNER: Brad Paisley, Sheryl Crow, Lyle Lovett. Peter Frampton. I mean just the list goes on and on. That clip was me trying, and I don`t know how they get it out there. But Zach Wilde of Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath did "Iron Man." In my concept of this album, "Major Tom," which was the David Bowie song where they send him out and he disappears. Where`s major Tom?
BEHAR: Right.
SHATNER: I speculate what happened to Major Tom with all these songs. Goes to heaven and goes to hell in the last part of the concept album, this rock opera, if you will. He goes to hell in Iron Man. Zach Wilde did the vocals which I laid down that track, didn`t know what I was doing. Went to Zach Wilde when he laid down his track, realized, my God, what I had done there was nothing. I had to come up with the energy and the musicality that he showed. And the song is fun.
BEHAR: OK. Let me change the subject. Because there`s breaking news today that your friend Leonard Nimoy, is not going to go to those Star Trek conventions anymore.
SHATNER: You`re kidding.
BEHAR: After how many years. He`s also 80 this year.
SHATNER: He`s also what?
BEHAR: 80 years old.
SHATNER: No, no, he`s older. Much older.
BEHAR: Much older?
SHATNER: Much older.
BEHAR: How old?
SHATNER: I don`t know. I don`t do tabloid stuff. But he`s, we can`t be the same age. Have you seen us?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, he`s not going to go to those Star Trek conventions.
SHATNER: I will miss him.
BEHAR: OK, now. There`s another thing I was surprised to read in your book, that Spock and Captain Kirk have a gay romance online. Did you know that?
SHATNER: No.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHATNER: What line can I go to, to see?
BEHAR: Online. It`s like people write about online.
SHATNER: I am so embarrassed.
BEHAR: They`re a gay couple.
SHATNER: I am so embarrassed to be on this show. The tabloid headlines that you go for --
BEHAR: I do. And what about this fight that you had with George Takei?
(LAUGHTER)
SHATNER: What fight? I love him. He just misinterpreted my love.
BEHAR: What was it that happened between the two of you? I`d like to know that.
SHATNER: I don`t know. I kissed him gently on the lips and he took it to --
BEHAR: He took offense?
SHATNER: He took offense, and then he sat on it, the fence. What?
BEHAR: Was there tongues involved?
SHATNER: No. The only tongues involved were the different language.
BEHAR: Well, anyway, Bill, it was very nice to have you here. You`re a very busy man.
SHATNER: I hope you enjoy the album "Seeking Major Tom."
BEHAR: Thank you.
SHATNER: I hope you enjoy this new book.
BEHAR: The new book is called "Shatner Rules" and the album is called --
SHATNER: "Seeking Major Tom."
BEHAR: "Seeking Major Tom."
Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
