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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Jane Fonda
Aired December 23, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: You know, not that many people can hold my attention for an entire. My dog, my grandson, and Jane Fonda. I`ll see the dog and the kid when I get home, but that`s another story.
Jane is here. Jane has led a remarkable life which she says at age 73 is only getting better. Yes. Her new book is called "Primetime: love, health, sex, fitness, friendship, spirit, making the most of all your life."
Joining me for the entire hour, as I said before, is two-time Academy Award winner Jane Fonda.
JANE FONDA, ACTRESS: Hi.
BEHAR: Applause, applause, applause. Ok.
You know, we have had other movie stars here, but we really enjoy --
FONDA: I`ve seen many of them. I watch your show.
BEHAR: You do?
FONDA: Yes. I love you.
BEHAR: That`s nice. I love you, too. We`re big fans around here. I was looking up your filmography; I mean it`s just incredible how many films you`ve done over your lifetime.
FONDA: Right. So many bad ones, too.
BEHAR: There are a few bad ones, yes. But the good ones are so good.
FONDA: Amazed I survived. I have never played by the rules. You`re not supposed to do what I did during -- you know, I left for 15 years for one thing.
BEHAR: I know. Why did you do that?
FONDA: Because I wanted a marriage to work.
BEHAR: With Ted?
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: Ted Turner, our mentor and originator of CNN.
FONDA: Yes. I know. It`s like coming home when I come here.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: To this building.
BEHAR: Yes. And so as you left your career for marriage.
FONDA: Yes. Ten years with him, and then five years writing my memoirs. And now I`m coming back to filmmaking. And you know, you`re not supposed to do that when you`re that age.
BEHAR: Yes. Because they don`t allow it. Not that you can`t do whatever you want. You`re a great actress.
FONDA: Thank you.
BEHAR: Yes. But I mean, you left -- you decided that if you wanted to have a great marriage, you couldn`t really have the career at that time.
FONDA: Well, I thought maybe the problem had been -- I`ve been married twice before. And I was traveling too much. You know, you make movies with gorgeous guys, and -- maybe that was part of the problem. No, I was always a good girl.
BEHAR: You were?
FONDA: Yes -- but you`re away. You`re away. I wasn`t the problem.
BEHAR: Were you a good girl on "Klute"?
FONDA: No.
BEHAR: Because Donald Sutherland, that was a hot movie, let me tell you something.
FONDA: It was a hot relationship.
BEHAR: Was it -- between reality?
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: I knew that.
FONDA: But not too often. It didn`t happen too often.
BEHAR: But with him, huh?
FONDA: Weird, huh?
BEHAR: Thank you. I just thought he was very hot, very sexy. I remember that movie. It was scary, but it was sexy.
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: So this book that you`ve written -- why did you write this book now? What was the reason?
FONDA: Well, I started to come to the end of my 60s, into my 70s, and I realized that I`m getting happier.
BEHAR: You`re getting happier.
FONDA: and it`s not what I expected at all.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: And I realized that when you`re inside oldness as opposed to looking at it from the outside, it`s totally different. And I thought, well, am I unique? And if I`m not, why is nobody talking about it?
You know, we have this view, the old view of age. You`re born, you peak at mid-life, and then you decline into pathology and decrepitude. And that`s not what I`ve experienced.
BEHAR: The old decrepitude. Yes.
FONDA: But it`s not only not true of me, but it`s not true of any of the older people that I know. I decided I was going to spend a few years researching it. And I traveled all -- I did a lot of research. I talked to doctors and scientists and all kinds of people. And so I wrote about it.
BEHAR: And so what are the top things that you found?
FONDA: Oh, wow.
BEHAR: Because I think you`re right. I agree with you. If you`re healthy. If you`re not healthy, it`s not good to be old.
FONDA: But listen, I have met so many people who aren`t healthy, and yet they don`t feel like ill people.
BEHAR: Really?
FONDA: You know, sometimes illness can cause you to see things in a new way. You think you`re being broken when in fact you`re being broken open.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: You know, I did a play called "33 Variations". I did it all - -
BEHAR: I saw you.
FONDA: I did it here, and I did it if Los Angeles and I was a character that was dying of ALS, Lou Gehrig`s disease. And the great physicist, Stephen Hawking came. You know he is -- he came up with the Big Bang Theory. He`s at CalTech for a month and he came to see the play.
Now he has had ALS for 50 years. The only thing he can movie is the tiny little muscle in the corner of his eye.
BEHAR: And yet he managed to get married a few times.
FONDA: He`s been married a few times. He has a twinkle in his eye.
BEHAR: He does.
FONDA: I asked him since my character had the same disease as he did, I said how do you think I did? And it took a long time for him to kind of spell out the words. But what he ended up saying was, "You are my heartthrob." Not exactly what I expected. And I said, "Barbarella"? He said, "Yes".
It`s clear that, you know, as far as this man is concerned, he`s living a full life. And I found this to be true a lot.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. Of course, he has a brain. He has -- I didn`t realize that he came up with the Big Bang Theory.
FONDA: Now he`s writing a book about the origin of the universe. You know, this man who can`t move except for the corner of his eye.
BEHAR: He`s incredibly brilliant.
FONDA: So one of the things that I discovered is it`s not really so much if you`re well or not or you can`t move or you can move -- it`s your attitude about it. As a great philosopher, Victor Frankel said everything can be taken from you in life except one thing: your freedom to choose how you will respond to it, the situations in your life.
BEHAR: That`s true.
FONDA: And so the people who do the best in the latter part of their life are people who choose to forgive, to interpret the events and people in their lives in a different kind of light. You know, you become -- as you get older, you tend to see things -- you see the commonalities more than the differences.
You tend to be forgiving. You tend to be less tense, less stressed, less docile, and there`s a great study that was done of 350,000 Americans that showed that the majority of people over 50 are happier.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, that whole saying that life begins at 40 I think is probably true too. People do start to have a different perspective on life at around 40 years old. Because you say, ok, this is it. I`m in the second half now. You`ve had -- this is your third act, as you call it --
FONDA: Well, the first 30 years, the seconds 30 years, the last 30 years.
BEHAR: 30 to 60 and 60 to 90 --
FONDA: My third act began at 60. When I was 59, I sort of realized, man, in a year it`s going to begin. And it`s going to be my last act. And, you know, last acts are important, right?
BEHAR: Well, they`re very important.
FONDA: They can make sense out of the first two. So I thought, well, what am I supposed to do with these last 30 years, if I`m lucky enough to live that long. So I went back and did -- I researched myself.
BEHAR: You did a review.
FONDA: I did what I later found out is called a life review and doctors recommend doing it. Going back and trying to understand who you were, who your parents were, why they were the way they were, who your grandparents were.
BEHAR: Right.
FONDA: And that`s what I did. And it helped me understand that, you know, what went on had nothing to do with me. It was their issues.
BEHAR: Right.
FONDA: And I began to understand who I am independent of them.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. It`s a very good idea. I think every decade even to review the decade and say, well, this is where I used to be. I mean you know, that famous line, title from a book from a feminist I remember -- I forget her name, "the girl I left behind", is so true. It`s like you look back and you say, who was that girl? Who was that girl.
FONDA: Usually the girl was pretty good. The problem for us women starts at about puberty. And the trick to getting old, if you -- if you age, you know, the way I think people can, as a woman, you circle back to the girl you were. And you know that girl for the first time.
BEHAR: You know what I always say, Jane? That when you`re ten years old, I pretty much know who you are, what you want in life. If you can get back to that -- I mean when I was 10-years-old, I was imitating Jerry Lewis and I was doing exactly what I do in my third act, as you call it.
FONDA: Right.
BEHAR: And I think that people should look at themselves at 10 years old. What were you at 10?
FONDA: Yes. Cognitively we may not know who we were. At 10 I was like, oh, yes, show me. Why should I do that. You know, I climbed trees, I wrestled. I was feisty. Then as I approached puberty and adolescence, it was what can I do for you? Oh, I want please you. If you really see who I am, you won`t love me. I have to be -- that kind of thing.
(CROSSTALK)
FONDA: It took me a long time to grow -- well, it`s true of a lot of women.
BEHAR: The pleasing factor.
FONDA: Yes. We give up mastery to become pleasers. And then the goal is to get back to what we were before.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
FONDA: I was raised to believe it`s not that my father said to me, you know, I won`t love you unless you`re perfect. But that was -- that was the behavior I realized --
BEHAR: The vibe.
FONDA: The vibe was if I didn`t look right or if I didn`t act right, that, you know, I would never be loved. So I --
BEHAR: Only from your father, not your mother?
FONDA: I don`t know. She was bipolar, and she killed herself when I was 12. So you know, I didn`t have anything from her.
BEHAR: Yes. How about before she -- before you were 12?
FONDA: You know, bipolarity tends -- you don`t really know who your parent is. You know, it`s hard to know.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s hard to live with, mental illness when you`re a child.
FONDA: It`s extremely hard. It`s one of the things, you know -- about a third of how well we age is genetic. And we can`t do anything about it.
BEHAR: Just a third? I thought it was even more.
FONDA: No, a third. And the good news is that means two-thirds depends on us and the choices that we make in life.
BEHAR: Right.
FONDA: Now you can -- you know, depending on if you exercise, if you stay healthy, if you eat properly, if you work at having a positive attitude, you can mitigate against some of the genetic issues. You know I had depression --
BEHAR: Smoke --
FONDA: Smoking, drinking too much. I had depression coming from both sides. And you know, 40s -- my life didn`t begin at 40. My -- I thought my life was going to end at 40; 40 can be the end -- as you begin to approach menopause it can be very, very hard for a lot of women.
BEHAR: Well, I got a divorce so my life began. We`ll be right back with more from Jane Fonda.
FONDA: So did I. But it -- it didn`t work that way for me.
BEHAR: No.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FONDA: I think that -- maybe you and I should have the kind of relationship that we`re supposed to have.
HENRY FONDA, ACTOR: What kind of relationship is that?
FONDA: Well, you know, like a -- like a father and a daughter.
H. FONDA: Just in the nick of time, huh? Worried about the will, are you? Well, I`m leaving everything to you except what I`m taking with me.
FONDA: Just stop. I don`t want anything. It just -- it seems that you and me have been mad at each other for so long.
H. FONDA: I didn`t know we were mad. I thought we just didn`t like each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a very moving scene between Jane Fonda and her father, Henry Fonda, from "On Golden Pond". And Jane is back with me now.
That really touches you, that scene, doesn`t it? When you see it? It`s upsetting still. You know --
FONDA: But how lucky am I to have done a movie like that with my father in roles that`s so paralleled real life.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: I produced it. And I just feel so -- so grateful that I was able to say that to him. I could never say it in real life.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: But it was hard for me to play that scene. Yes.
BEHAR: Yes. I mean, it`s interesting, your relationship with him. Which -- we`ve read a lot about it at this point and that he seemed to be a rather remote, detached kind of personality.
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: And you know, it`s ironic because his screen image is the warmest and the most toasty guy, you know. And -- but you never know with actors what they`re really like.
FONDA: He always said acting provided him a mask. That he could show things because he was behind a mask that he couldn`t reveal in real life.
BEHAR: Yes. And you were saying that your mother committed suicide when you were 12 years old. Did they discuss it with you? Did he discuss it with you?
FONDA: No, I was told she had a heart attack. And it wasn`t until a year later in study hall that a supposed friend passed me a movie magazine that said she -- how she killed herself.
BEHAR: Really? So -- so you were still a kid. You were only 13 at that point?
FONDA: Uh-huh.
BEHAR: So that`s -- that`s scary for you. Thinking, my God, my mother must have been really unhappy or something.
FONDA: Or you think it`s your fault, right?
BEHAR: And you think it`s your fault.
FONDA: But this is where the life review comes in. When I was writing my memoirs, I was able to obtain her medical records. And they were thick. And in the middle of them, in small, single, you know, spaced typewriting - - because she knew how to type, she was a secretary -- in little handwritten notes was her autobiography.
They must have asked her to write it about her life when she was admitted to the institution where she killed herself. And in it, what did I find? That she`d been sexually abused as a girl. And you know, I had become an expert on sexual abuse and its effect on children.
And I mean I work with adolescents in Georgia, that`s my -- nonprofits are focusing on, so many of the girls and boys, but especially the girls had been sexually abused. And I knew more about it than most lay people. And so the minute I read that, everything became clear.
BEHAR: Bingo. It came, the light --
FONDA: And I could totally forgive her and understand. I wanted to take her in my arms and tell her how sorry I was. But I was also able to forgive myself.
That`s the value of a life review. You realize it really had nothing to do with you. And you can begin to become who you`re supposed to be.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes. It`s very freeing. But they didn`t talk to you about it. And in those days I think there was a -- I don`t know if it`s true today -- there was a shame around mental illness. You couldn`t say cancer.
FONDA: No, you couldn`t. That`s right.
BEHAR: Suicide.
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, Alan Alda, who is a very good friend of mine, his mother was schizophrenic.
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: And he writes about it in his book, and he said nobody discussed it with him.
FONDA: No.
BEHAR: It was like there was this elephant in the room and no one told him. It`s -- it`s a terrible thing to leave children out in the cold like that.
FONDA: Well, it`s -- it`s not the adult`s fault either. They didn`t have the equipment, they didn`t have the tools to know how --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And the language.
FONDA: They didn`t have the words to know how to talk about it.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: And at least in my father`s generation -- and plus, he was from the Midwest, you -- you -- he hated emotion. He hated anything that would bring up emotion. So he just -- you know, he was -- in Broadway, in "Mr. Roberts," he played for four years. He didn`t miss a performance that night.
BEHAR: When your mother committed suicide?
FONDA: No, uh-uh, he couldn`t have handled --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He`s still went on -- the show must go on?
FONDA: The show must go on, yes.
BEHAR: So what -- what do you make of that?
FONDA: I understand it now. At the time I just felt bereft. But as I did my life review and I learned more about him --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: -- and who he was and -- and the fact that he had suffered, I think, from undiagnosed depression -- and it turns out most of the Fonda men had. You know, I thought he did the best he could.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: Because he didn`t know what to do.
So it`s my job to interpret those things in a new way so that I don`t live the rest of my life with guilt and anger and resentment and all those kinds of things.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, I remember when I was in therapy years ago. And I said one day, the buck stops here. It was like, I had to fix what was wrong then, otherwise my kid was going to suffer for it.
FONDA: That`s right. There`s a statute of limitations.
BEHAR: Somebody has to say the buck stops here. So it was -- in your case, it`s you, you know.
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: And what about your siblings? I mean you have only Peter, is that your only sibling?
FONDA: Peter is -- I had a half sister. My mother`s daughter with her first husband and Peter`s my full-blooded sibling, yes.
BEHAR: So was he around during all this time?
FONDA: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: He was there too. So he -- he also had pain involved in this --
FONDA: Oh, yes, totally, oh, yes.
BEHAR: Yes. And that scene from "On Golden Pond", was kind of rapprochement for the two of you where -- oh where, almost a psychodrama?
FONDA: You know, I -- I had a difficult time with the scene because it was hard for me to say those words that I could never say in real life. And when the scene was over I asked dad if I could come over for dinner that night because I thought we can have a rapprochement.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: And I could tell him how I -- I had a hard time with the scene and everything. And I said, has this ever happened to you, dad? Nope. Never, I mean you never -- nope. Bless his heart. You know, I realized you can`t expect someone to change. He was -- it was five months before he died. You know, he wasn`t -- he couldn`t change.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: But I could.
BEHAR: You could.
FONDA: I could, and I could understand why he was the way he was. And I could say, my God, I`m so lucky that I had a chance to be in a movie like that with him and with Katharine.
BEHAR: He`s kind of the like "nope" generation. You know, you can picture Jimmy Stewart saying "nope", too -- you know, that whole group.
FONDA: Exactly.
BEHAR: Those all-American skinny guys, you know?
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll have more with Jane Fonda in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FONDA: Are you ready to work out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
FONDA: Beginner`s workout. Stand with your feet a little more than just apart, stomach tight, buttocks pulled in. Go out of your torso and head right, two, and back, two. Left, stretch it out. Front, and to the right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, that was Jane Fonda in the `80s when she single-handedly got women off the couch and got us moving. Resentfully as -- resentment abounded, but I tried to do it. But I hated it.
FONDA: Yes, yes?
BEHAR: I don`t like -- I`d rather wear black in August than do one sit-up.
FONDA: Well, I hope it changes because I`ll tell you something -- when you get old, you`re going to need to do it.
BEHAR: I am old already --
FONDA: No, you`re not.
BEHAR: I have to start doing it.
FONDA: You know, I left the workout business for quite a while. While I was married to Ted and afterwards. Then when I began doing research --
BEHAR: You know what, what did you do during that time? You left the movie business, you left the exercise business. What, did you just talk to Ted?
FONDA: I learned -- yes, I talked to Ted and learned about all kinds of things, especially having to do with the environment, with nature, with global issues.
BEHAR: I see. You went inside and outside?
FONDA: I didn`t go inside enough. That`s why we`re not together anymore. I wanted to go inside.
BEHAR: Oh.
FONDA: But, you know, when I was researching, it took me four years to research and interview scientists and stuff for my book "Primetime". I was struck with how important it is when you get older to be active.
It doesn`t have to be, you know, that kind of workout type of active. But you have to stay physically active because things happen to your body. You know, you lose muscle mass, your bones get thinner, your brain shrinks. All sort of thing --
BEHAR: Trip over your breasts.
FONDA: Yes. You can bet the race is which one is going to fall the fastest, right? That`s actually Maya Angelou`s joke. But --
BEHAR: Maya Angelou is funny? She can be I guess.
FONDA: She can be hysterical, absolutely. Joy --
BEHAR: I didn`t know that. Because she`s a poet and I didn`t think she was funny exactly.
FONDA: Yes. She can be hysterical. But I was so struck by how important it is. I mean, it really can make all the difference in the world.
BEHAR: What`s the minimum?
FONDA: We`re talking functional --
BEHAR: All right. Give us the minimum.
FONDA: The minimum is -- you know, I would say if you could walk 20 minutes --
BEHAR: How far?
FONDA: Three times a week.
BEHAR: 20 minutes, that`s it? I can do that.
FONDA: Sure, you can do it.
BEHAR: Like fast, right. 20 minutes, fast?
FONDA: As fast as you can. It doesn`t have to be --
BEHAR: Stretch. I love to stretch.
FONDA: You have to stretch and practice balancing, things like that. That`s really hard for me. You have to do things that maintain your muscle because you tend to lose muscle. And that`s why we put on weight. Because the muscles are -- we`re losing our metabolism which is what muscle is.
So I decided to get back into the workout business.
BEHAR: You`re in it again?
FONDA: Who but me? I`m old -- I have a fake hip, fake knee. I`m a perfect person to make -- not videos anymore, DVDs for older people so they can do safe and, you know, do what they can do even if they`ve never done it their whole lives.
BEHAR: Where is it? Do we have it? Where is the video?
FONDA: I don`t have it here. But it just won the best home entertainment DVD of the year.
BEHAR: I think that`s great. If you`re not going to kill us, it`s great. You know, that feel the burn routine --
FONDA: I know. It was hard. I can`t do that anymore. No, I can`t. But I can do other things, you know. There`s a lot I can`t do. I can`t run across the street. I can`t leap out of cars. So I do everything slowly, but slow is good.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: It is.
BEHAR: Well, you look fantastic. So you`re the guru of this.
We`ll be back with Jane Fonda after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Jane Fonda`s back with me for the entire show. We`re so happy to have you for the entire show.
FONDA: I`m so happy to be with you, Joy.
BEHAR: We don`t do it very often, but we like you so much and you`re so interesting and smart.
FONDA: Thank you.
BEHAR: So let`s talk about marriage, because now you have a new guy, I understand. But you -- how many marriages did you have?
FONDA: I`ve had three marriages.
BEHAR: Vadim?
FONDA: Tom Hayden and Ted Turner.
BEHAR: Very hot numbers all three.
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, Hayden was great for politics --
FONDA: They all taught me a lot.
BEHAR: They all did -- by the way, I read in your other book that you had a menage a trois with Roger Vadim. See, to me, that means I have to fake it for two guys. I`m not interested in that.
FONDA: Who said there was another guy?
BEHAR: Oh, there was a women in the picture -- two women and a guy? Oh, that sounds a little bit more possible. Only because, you know, you can --
FONDA: You want to?
BEHAR: No, no, no, no. Tell me about sex in the 70s. Let me hear about that.
FONDA: You mean as in my age, 70s?
BEHAR: In your age, yes, your age.
FONDA: What is the most interesting -- first of all, it`s important to know that people do get it on when they`re older.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: Young people don`t know that, and they don`t like to think about it --
BEHAR: Well, they find it disgusting, frankly. When they think about old people doing it.
FONDA: Well, they got to get over it.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: And it`s not that you have to have sex when you`re older. You know, I mean, a lot of people have closed down shop down there. It`s done, and they`re very relieved, and a lot of women are really upset about Viagra. They think it`s all over with, and suddenly this thing is coming at them --
BEHAR: Exactly.
FONDA: Enough already.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: But for those who do want to continue to be sexual, you`ve got to know what`s happening to your body. It changes.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: So how do you negotiate that? What do you -- how do you make it pleasurable and successful? But basically -- you know what the biggest sex organ is?
BEHAR: The brain?
FONDA: Right. The brain.
BEHAR: Yes. And porn.
FONDA: What?
BEHAR: Pornography.
FONDA: Yeah?
BEHAR: That`s a big sex organ.
FONDA: For those -- well, if it turns your brain on. The brain is the most important thing. And what is so great -- I`ve experienced it personally, and I write about it in my book, "Primetime," and the research shows this to be true. You can be much more turned on and intimate when you`re older as a woman, because intimacy requires self-revelation. You have to bring your whole self to the table. Well, I don`t know about you, but I didn`t want to bring my whole self to the table when I was younger.
BEHAR: I know.
FONDA: It was like, maybe they`re not going to like it. Maybe I`ll hold a little -- hold stuff back. Only bring what`s perfect to the table.
BEHAR: Yes. That was that whole thing with you where you had to be perfect, right?
FONDA: And now -- we used to say you fall in love, right? And that`s the problem. You fell. When you`re older, you don`t fall. You`re standing on your own two feet as a whole, actualized, authentic person. Walking into a relationship with another whole, authentic person. And that`s --
BEHAR: What if you`re with the same old person?
FONDA: Well, if you`re with the same old person and if it`s still hot, it means that they have evolved into a whole authentic person with you.
BEHAR: I see.
FONDA: Now that doesn`t always happen. If you find you`re in a relationship where you`re having to like squash yourself into a thimble to be in the relationship -- it`s probably not the right relationship, you know?
BEHAR: It has to be -- it has to be more (ph).
FONDA: But I`m fascinated by people who have been married for 50, 60 years, and I interview a bunch of them.
BEHAR: And still do it.
FONDA: And they still do it, and they describe to me how great it is, and I am so jealous. I`ll never know that. But I can imagine -- being an actor, I can sort of get inside of what that must feel like. You have an argument, but you`re lying next to someone that you`ve known for so long.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s not important --
FONDA: You know it can be so -- once they begin to touch you, it`s going to blossom into beautiful things. So that`s like the glue that holds them together.
BEHAR: Also --
FONDA: No, I`m never going to get married again, though. There`s no ring. No, me and my boyfriend have matching medic alert bracelets.
BEHAR: You know, so OK, you don`t want to do it again. Why not?
FONDA: Do what again?
BEHAR: Get married.
FONDA: No.
BEHAR: There`s no point?
FONDA: No. Do you?
BEHAR: No. I don`t know. You never know with me. You never know with me.
FONDA: Yes. I mean, it`s true you never can say never, but I think never, no. I am not going to get married again. I don`t see why.
BEHAR: So let`s talk about the marriage--
FONDA: Relationships are good, though.
BEHAR: So Vadim was this French guy, put you in "Barbarella."
FONDA: You know who he`d been with before me, -- well you had -- I saw Catherine Deneuve on your show.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: She was the one before me, and before her it was Bardot.
BEHAR: Bardot.
FONDA: It`s fun to be with a man who`s been with Bardot and Deneuve.
BEHAR: Right.
FONDA: I learned a lot from him.
BEHAR: No slouches anybody of that group. Although Brigitte, she hasn`t done as well as you have, believe me, in her old years. Catherine looks great. But Brigitte Bardot, forget about it.
FONDA: Listen, she did well enough when she was young. She doesn`t have to do anything anymore.
BEHAR: She did, she had a great 15 minutes, yes.
FONDA: 15 minutes? She was a force of nature. No, but then Tom Hayden, I learned so much from him.
BEHAR: Tom Hayden.
FONDA: We were together 17 years. I had a daughter with -- Vanessa, a son with Tom.
BEHAR: Jane, in one of your books -- I think it`s this one -- I`ve read both of them. This book, I think you say that that was a low point, though, when you got divorced from Tom. Right?
FONDA: Well -- when Tom and I, after 17 years, he told me that he was in love with somebody. And I had a nervous breakdown. You know, you -- you loved the 40s. I didn`t like the 40s. I was at the end of my 40s, 50s, it was a horrible time for me. And yet, it was -- I write a lot about it in here. Because it`s true for many women that the 40s are -- can be a tough time.
BEHAR: It can be treacherous.
FONDA: You`re pre-menopause, you`re going into menopause, you think you`re going crazy. You don`t know who you are anymore. And I write about how I handled that. Everyone said, stay busy, stay busy. I said, no, I don`t think so. I think I`m going to be very still. I think something really -- I was in such pain, I didn`t think it was possible to suffer that much, and yet from the pain came so much good things. I was broken open. As a new person.
BEHAR: I think to share with that, when I got divorced, if I took responsibility for my part, what I did wrong, I was able to move on. I think that women get stuck when they play the blame game. And so do men.
FONDA: You always do in the beginning. I went into therapy. My therapist gave me a really good tip. Because you know, you`re -- especially if the man that you`ve been married to falls in love with somebody else, you`re furious, teeth-grinding. You write letters, never mail them, though. You write letters, you wish them dead and so forth. It`s concrete proof that you`re out of your mind. She said, put a rubber band around your wrist and when you feel like -- snap it. It kind of changes your neuro circuits in your brain. I did a lot of snapping. A lot of snapping.
BEHAR: There was a lot of acting out. I mean, Dana Delaney`s sister, she was on the show the other day and she said her sister cut the bed in half with a saw. That`s how she responded --
(CROSSTALK)
FONDA: I put all the clothes in plastic bags and threw them out the window. I write about it in here, in my book "Primetime," and how I -- it`s not my word, but fertile void. Suzanne Braun-Levine (ph) came up with the term for it, fertile void. You don`t know who you are, you`re going through a real crisis, but it`s also very fertile. So you have to pay close attention, you have to stay close to the wall. You have to pay attention who you`re with, the music you listen to, the movies you see, because you`re very, very vulnerable. But if you can come through that to the other side, it can be the most wonderful part of life. If someone tells you that at the time, it`s like you`re crazy. But the fact is it`s true.
BEHAR: The fertile void --
FONDA: And I write in "The Primetime" how to go through it and come out the other side.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about your daughter for a minute. How much time do I have? Two minutes. Good. I read in the book that your daughter suggested that you were a chameleon.
FONDA: Well, when I was approaching my 60th birthday, I decided I wanted to do what I call a life review. I write about it in "Primetime." And I thought, I`m going to make a little video. That will give me a concrete project of myself. There`s a lot of pictures and home movies and interviews. And I asked my daughter who makes documentary films if she would help me with it. And she said, well, mom, why don`t you just get a chameleon and let it crawl across the screen. And I realized she put her finger on something I was going to have to deal with. That was the rap on me. There`s no there there, I`m only whatever the man I`m with wants me to be. And so I spent a year doing the research and I discovered that there is a there there. It`s different than what my parents said or my husbands thought or whatever. And it gave me a great deal of confidence.
BEHAR: It was actually a good moment for you and your daughter, because it showed that your daughter was able to say that to you, that she understood you, that she saw you, and she didn`t feel nervous that she would hurt your feelings. I think you probably--
FONDA: Not at all.
BEHAR: She felt like she did a great job --
FONDA: She didn`t care if she hurt my feelings.
BEHAR: I see.
FONDA: She`s very prickly. She was. But it`s never too late. Even with your prickly children. She`s a brilliant, brilliant woman. And we have had wonderful rapprochement. And she has my two grandchildren, and grandchildren are the most wonderful thing. They give you a second chance, right?
BEHAR: That`s true. You love them so much, you can`t even control it.
FONDA: No.
BEHAR: What about your son? You have a son, too, right?
FONDA: I have a son --
BEHAR: Was that with Tom Hayden?
FONDA: That was with Tom. His name is Troy. He`s doing a new TV series called "Boss." And then -- and also he`s in the "Playboy Club" TV series. So he`s very successful, he has a wonderful wife who I work with. And they haven`t had children -- they`re rehearsing. I`m waiting for them to have another set of grandchildren.
BEHAR: You know, I was talking to Gloria Steinem this week --
FONDA: I know.
BEHAR: And we talked about whether the women`s movement is going backwards, you know, a little bit. You know, the things that we fought for in the `60s and `70s, and now the girls are doing sex videos and they`re doing high heels and they are very male-identified in many ways. Do you think we`re going backwards, or do you feel that this is just a phase, it will go away?
FONDA: I think all movements go through phases. And I think the fundamentals that the woman`s movement brought to the lives of American women are still there and they are still strong. But I think we have a very challenging sexist culture. I think that we older women have to do all we can to --
BEHAR: Instruct?
FONDA: To instruct and encourage and educate the younger women to stand up for themselves.
BEHAR: And let them know what we need to do. Yes. She said that -- Susan B. Anthony said, girls, we don`t want our girls to be grateful. We want them to be ungrateful. Jane Fonda and I will be back in just a minute. I thought that was quite brilliant.
FONDA: She has a way with words, Gloria.
BEHAR: Susan B. Anthony did.
FONDA: But Gloria, she--
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FONDA: It`s going to be very hard for him. He`s not going to like the fact that I`ve changed. I have changed. You know that I`ve never been on my own before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a clip of Jane Fonda in the film "Coming Home," for which she won the Academy Award for best actress. That was a great film.
FONDA: It was a wonderful film. It grew out of my three years working with veterans and active duty servicemen. And all the things that I learned, I tried to put into that movie.
BEHAR: Jon Voight, did you have an affair with him?
FONDA: No.
BEHAR: OK. Just checking --
FONDA: I was married.
BEHAR: You were married at the time. Because he was kind of hot in that -- a little-- it`s interesting in that movie -- I watched it and I thought, well, Jane`s hair got curly after she spent a night with him. It was straight before that. Now your hair got curly.
FONDA: I began -- it was my idea, it`s always, straighten your hair, and wear certain kinds of clothes. And as my husband was in Vietnam and as I began to become part of the peace movement and began to become real, I -- my hair, my clothes, everything began to get real.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes. But he was a paraplegic, and so -- but there was great sex anyway.
FONDA: Yes. The man it was based on, Ron Kovic, after the movie came out, he said, thanks, my sex life has improved so much.
BEHAR: It`s funny, it`s ironic, because Jon Voight is a big conservative. You might know that.
FONDA: I`ve heard.
BEHAR: Did you fight with him politically at all?
FONDA: No.
BEHAR: No.
FONDA: No.
BEHAR: Nothing. Because sometimes --
FONDA: That happened later to him. I don`t know exactly what happened.
BEHAR: Oh, really, he wasn`t --
FONDA: No, no, no. We were very much -- he was very involved with me and my then-husband Tom Hayden and our anti-war activities.
BEHAR: Really?
FONDA: Oh, sure, absolutely.
BEHAR: So he`s become--
FONDA: Angelina Jolie went to the children`s camp that Tom and I ran.
BEHAR: She has issues with him, too, I think about his politics. Although I don`t know -- it`s in the papers. What do I know?
FONDA: I don`t know either.
BEHAR: And then I have to ask you about "Barbarella," I mean, when you look back and you see yourself in that movie, what`s the first thing that comes to your mind when you see that?
FONDA: I`d like to do it over again. We made some mistakes. It could have been a really strong feminist movie. For example, instead of being someone from this very evolved planet that comes to this backward evil planet and teaches them how to make love by taking pills and touching fingertips -- that`s the way they would have done it. I would have brought them true intimacy. I would have taught them how to really make love, you know? When they put me into that machine that was supposed to kill me by orgasm? Instead of being kind of scared and everything, I should have gotten in and laughed. No question I`m going to blow the fuse. I -- I wouldn`t have been afraid at all.
BEHAR: But it was Vadim`s movie, right? So he had his own ideas of what sex was about, I think.
FONDA: Yes, and I had no ideas at that time.
BEHAR: It was whatever he wanted --
FONDA: That was the end of my first act.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes. I read somewhere that you said you felt alone surrounded by lights. That being an actress at that time, your early days. You were lonely in it. Yes?
FONDA: I don`t quite know where that -- no.
BEHAR: That is a quote of yours --
FONDA: I used to go onto the sets where friends of mine or -- I remember I went onto the set where Marilyn Monroe was shooting "Some Like it Hot." And I had not become an actress yet. And just the -- you feel like a foreigner. You come onto this dark set, and somewhere in the middle there`s a circle of light. And all the energy is there. Everyone`s attention and energy is going there.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: And you`re on the outside. And something inside me said, I want to be there. I -- I want to be in that circle of light. But I was very young at the time. I didn`t really understand what it all meant. But I do remember seeing Marilyn leave the circle of light and walk towards me. And she had the light in her. And with her --
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: She was amazing.
BEHAR: Did you know her well?
FONDA: Not well. But she liked me. And I -- I found her very beautiful and sad and fragile.
BEHAR: Isn`t it amazing how her iconic status remains to this day? That people -- even the youngest kids know Marilyn Monroe. The pictures of her. She and James Dean and Elvis, those are the people from the 20th century who have continued to have this effect on people.
FONDA: Yes, yes. And all of them had besides their iconic nature, there was something fragile. Something you could identify with --
BEHAR: Vulnerable.
FONDA: And vulnerable. I think that has --
BEHAR: The sad thing is none of them had a third act. None of them.
FONDA: No, no.
BEHAR: Unfortunately. Audrey Hepburn is another one who died I think too young. She was in her 60s. She -- the New York Times when she died, they had an op-ed piece that said we would have liked to see how she taught us how to age.
FONDA: She would have done a great job.
BEHAR: She would have. But you are doing that job, Jane. You are doing it.
FONDA: Well, I think this book, "Primetime," is doing it. We don`t have a roadmap. We`re living 34 years longer than our grandparents did, and our great -- it`s a whole second adult lifetime, and there`s no road map how to do it. So I wanted with "Primetime" to kind of start to develop a road map so we`d know how to do it.
BEHAR: Do you find it ironic at all or distressing at all that as you reach the age where you really know what you`re doing, that it`s such a short time before you`ll be gone?
FONDA: It`s not such a short time. It`s actually much longer than we think. If we`re lucky enough to, you know, to not -- I could die walking out of here. I might very well die, doesn`t scare me.
BEHAR: It doesn`t?
FONDA: No. Not at all. No, because if I died right now, I would have very few regrets. You know, my -- my fear as I write about in the book is coming to the end of life with a lot of regrets when it`s too late to do something about it. And that`s why it`s important to live your life in such a way that you won`t have regrets when you die, at least minimal regrets. You have to live every moment as fully as you can. You have to try to understand what you`re supposed to do with your life.
BEHAR: OK. You`re right. We`ll have even more with Jane Fonda in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I am back with Jane Fonda. Her new book is called "Primetime," which is a terrific read by the way. I really enjoyed it and I enjoyed your other book, too.
FONDA: Yes. "My Life So Far."
BEHAR: "My Life So Far," yes.
FONDA: This is already having a big impact on people, men as well as women and people in their 40s.
BEHAR: I think it`s a very important thing to write about. As you say, there is no road map for the whole 60-plus years.
FONDA: That`s right.
BEHAR: You`re right, there -- a lot of people are living to be 95, 100. I saw a woman who was 104.
FONDA: I interviewed people that were 104.
BEHAR: Yes.
FONDA: One thing they all had in common, great sense of humor.
BEHAR: You got to have that. That`s what keeps relationships together. I`m with a guy for 29 years. And we`re together because we laugh a lot together. Also, you can`t be touchy. I don`t like touchy.
FONDA: What do you mean? As in sensitive?
BEHAR: No, as in like, they get hurty feelings every time you say something.
FONDA: OK, that kind of touchy.
BEHAR: Yes, that, yes.
FONDA: Not the other kind -- you know what we have in common?
BEHAR: What?
FONDA: We started social media two, three years ago?
BEHAR: Well, I got on Twitter. Did you?
FONDA: Yes. Twitter, Facebook, blog. I have a web site, I love this. Don`t you learn a lot?
BEHAR: Yes. It`s great.
FONDA: It`s having this immediate feedback. You can ask questions, you get answers, you get dialogues going. I find it just fascinating. I feel so lucky that I`m still alive in an era where we can do that.
BEHAR: I love the Internet also. I mean, just -- you don`t have to go to the library anymore.
FONDA: I agree.
BEHAR: I was in a library one time when I was in college and a friend of mine came in and said to me, what`s a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?
FONDA: It`s great. I wanted to find out about G spots. I mean, I know G spots are alive and well, they exist, guys have to know about it. All I had to do was Google G spot and I got a whole diagram.
BEHAR: Really?
FONDA: Yes. It`s in the book.
BEHAR: I`m about to form a search party to locate mine. But I mean, I have one question from Facebook and then we`ll be finished here. What one thing that you have done in your life would your parents be most proud?
FONDA: Well, my father would be proud that I`ve learned to fly fish and that I went back to the theater after 46 years. I think my mother would be proud that I`ve survived intact.
BEHAR: Yes, she would.
FONDA: Poor thing.
BEHAR: I think they`d be proud of more things than that. I think your father -- your father was proud of you at the end. I saw --
FONDA: He was, I know.
BEHAR: -- at the Oscars.
FONDA: He never told me that, but every now and then I`ll do an interview and they`ll play something that he said to me while I`m on air, thank you very much. And it makes me -- it touches me a lot. And it moves me.
BEHAR: And sometimes parents like that, like you are describing your father, they really can`t say it to you, but they say it to others.
FONDA: That`s right.
BEHAR: I`ve had that experience, too. They say, oh, your father said such and such. Really? He never said it to me.
FONDA: I know, I know. But also it`s because he was older, you see, and as men get older, they become more like we are, a little more open emotionally, a little more nurturing. That`s why it`s easier to be with them when they`re older.
BEHAR: That must be the reason that we all want to marry an older guy sometimes.
FONDA: Who does?
BEHAR: Some women do. Not me. I like them younger. Is this guy younger than you are?
FONDA: Yes.
BEHAR: Oh, good. What`s his name?
FONDA: Richard.
BEHAR: Richard is the new BF. OK, thank you, Jane. Lovely to see you. A wonderful person to know.
FONDA: Good to see you.
BEHAR: Jane Fonda`s book is called "Primetime." Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
