Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Interview with Bill Murray; Interview with Dick Van Dyke
Aired December 28, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: My first guest tonight needs no introduction but I`m going to give him one anyway. He`s one of the most successful and admired actors of the last 30 years and one of the funniest. His new movie is "Fantastic Mr. Fox," which I saw last night and loved it.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t buy this tree, Foxy. This is Boggis, Buns and Beans, three of the meanest, nastiest, ugliest farmers in this valley. You`re moving into the most dangerous neighborhood for someone of your type of species.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your comments are valuable but I`m going to ignore your advice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A cuss you are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you cussing with me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you cussing with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t cuss and point at me. Just buy the tree, ok?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He is the badger or the voice of the badger and he is here with me right now, Bill Murray. Bill Murray is here.
BILL MURRAY, COMEDIAN: Ok.
BEHAR: So Bill --
MURRAY: We don`t go home until you clap. Let`s go.
BEHAR: I really like this movie. It`s more adult than kiddish in a way isn`t it?
MURRAY: Well, it is -- that it is for adults is what`s refreshing about it. But I was thinking about it the other day, and I thought the way to describe it would be is it is smart enough to take your kids to.
BEHAR: Smart enough to take your kids to. How many kids have you got?
MURRAY: Six.
BEHAR: Of your own?
MURRAY: Yes. Well, people don`t loan them to you anymore. They just don`t. No matter what kind of ad you place, they just will not loan to you.
BEHAR: Well, why did they give their practice up? It was so useful.
The other stars of the movie -- I mean, Meryl Streep, plays Mrs. Fox, and George Clooney. I mean I found myself strangely attracted to the fox. And then I realized why. It was George Clooney underneath that fur.
MURRAY: George. Yes. He`s got a brilliant smile.
BEHAR: He did. He was such a charming, sexy fox.
MURRAY: He is great.
BEHAR: And Jason Schwartzman, what did he play again? I recognized his voice.
MURRAY: He plays the fox`s son.
BEHAR: Oh, the kid. Right.
MURRAY: The fox`s son, the kid. And the director, Wes Anderson`s brother, Eric Anderson plays the cousin. Those two guys are amazing.
BEHAR: Kristofferson.
MURRAY: Kristofferson. The son and the cousin are -- that to me, that`s like the funniest stuff in the movie. I really liked that.
BEHAR: Well, they have that little sibling rivalry going on which is so relatable to the kids who are watching and also the adults of course.
But your career has been very interesting, Bill. You are, you are the darling of the indie filmmakers, a lot of that, don`t you think?
MURRAY: Well, you know, that is not always good, I don`t think. Thank you for tipping me off to that. You know, it`s usually just before that that you are selling insurance late at night.
BEHAR: No.
MURRAY: Or TV.
BEHAR: No, to me that`s -- you know, it`s like Woody Allen used to say or said one time, you don`t want everybody to love your movie. You don`t want to be a big blockbuster all the time. You want movies that are smart, like the ones you do.
MURRAY: It is true. I used to make movies that were successful and I prefer the ones that aren`t. You know.
BEHAR: They`re successful. Your movies are.
MURRAY: No, you don`t want to be, I don`t want to be like that - - it`s too much work.
BEHAR: To do what?
MURRAY: To be in blockbuster movies. It`s too much, you know. I don`t want it.
BEHAR: Was "Ghostbusters" a blockbuster? Would you consider that one?
MURRAY: Yes. I would.
BEHAR: You would. And that was a lot of work.
MURRAY: It`s one of the biggest movies of all time, that movie.
BEHAR: Yes. But I mean, was it a lot of work? Or was it just - -
MURRAY: No. But the impact; it had a lot of impact.
BEHAR: Yes. One of my favorite movies of yours is -- what was it again? "What about Bob?" my favorite all time movie that you ever made.
MURRAY: That is a really great premise. It`s a really wonderful premise. A patient follows a doctor on a vacation.
BEHAR: And haunts him and nudges him until he wants to kill him. And the fact that Dreyfuss gets jealous of you is one of my favorite moments also. It`s so great.
MURRAY: Yes, it`s funny.
BEHAR: Also my other favorite movie that you were in, which you weren`t in a big part, but you stole the movie in a certain way -- "Tootsie".
MURRAY: "Tootsie" was a really good movie too.
BEHAR: What is the line -- I sit there and I watch you and you say, "That is some crazy hospital."
MURRAY: That is one nutty hospital.
BEHAR: Nutty hospital. Hilarious stuff, you know.
I understand that you do not have an agent or publicist?
MURRAY: Are you in that business or are you thinking?
BEHAR: Did you come here by yourself?
MURRAY: I came here by myself. Well, I got a ride.
BEHAR: A taxi?
MURRAY: Well, it`s a little nicer than a taxi. It was black.
BEHAR: It was black.
MURRAY: It wasn`t white. It wasn`t a block long. There was no hot tub in it or anything. It`s just a car.
BEHAR: No, that`s not your speed, huh?
MURRAY: No.
BEHAR: Is it hard to find you?
MURRAY: For some people, for the thick, yes.
BEHAR: For the thick?
MURRAY: It`s virtually impossible.
BEHAR: What`s the thick?
MURRAY: The thick, like, "Oh, God I saw him on TV. Maybe he`s on TV." You know, that`s thick.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
MURRAY: If I saw him on TV. Maybe I will look on TV. Maybe I will find him there.
BEHAR: Is it hard to find you if somebody wants to hire you?
MURRAY: It`s a little bit hard. But that`s ok. If they really -- if somebody really wants you they will find you.
BEHAR: Have you lost any jobs because of it?
MURRAY: Not that I know of. You don`t know.
BEHAR: How would you know? They can`t find you.
MURRAY: Maybe somebody threw me a quarter yesterday. I have no idea. I didn`t get it.
BEHAR: Is this badger supposed -- this is a great little --
MURRAY: It`s really nice, yes.
BEHAR: Is this for sale or something?
MURRAY: That -- now, I am told that these things cost --
BEHAR: It`s a lovable animal.
MURRAY: I know. It`s really --
BEHAR: It`s an ugly thing in a way but I don`t mind.
MURRAY: It`s all right. It`s good. You should get your picture taken or be on TV. It`s a nice guy. He`s -- if you have to be one of them. These are extremely expensive and very difficult to make. You can touch it all you like. If they built it they can fix it, right.
BEHAR: Maybe I shouldn`t touch it in that area.
MURRAY: In the area --- you are safe with the badger. I think it -- it may even be a marsupial, I can`t remember.
BEHAR: It`s not a rodent?
MURRAY: Let`s go to the -- let`s --
BEHAR: Can somebody Google badger and find out what this animal is.
MURRAY: Someone is a marsupial that I wasn`t aware of. I can`t remember.
BEHAR: But you know what? It sort of follows in a way that you would do this movie for some reason to me because it`s kind of a serious -- it`s not a cartoon. I don`t know what would you call this?
MURRAY: well, technically it`s called stop-motion animation.
BEHAR: Oh yes.
MURRAY: But the story is written by a fellow named Roald Dahl who`s a very famous English writer.
BEHAR: Oh, I know him. He was married to Patricia Neil.
MURRAY: That`s right.
BEHAR: Hello.
MURRAY: Hello.
BEHAR: And there was a little bit of --
MURRAY: And there was a thing in the --
BEHAR: Problem there.
MURRAY: There was an issue. And they had some issue too. They had a couple of beautiful children.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: Yes. But I think, people grow apart sometimes but she was certainly one of the most beautiful women. And he is a fascinating man.
BEHAR: Is he still alive now?
MURRAY: No. He passed away ten years ago.
BEHAR: Isn`t Sophie Dahl his daughter, the model and actress?
MURRAY: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes indeed. And his other book -- "The Chocolate Factory".
MURRAY: Willie Wonka.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: "James and the Giant Peach".
BEHAR: All his stories are very -- they have depth.
MURRAY: They have some moves to them. They have some highs, some light and some dark.
BEHAR: That`s why I was saying I think that this was right for you. Because your work to me is not kind of flimsy, crazy comedy as much as -- I don`t know --- they call it dra-medy in a way. It`s kind of like - - I hate that, I know, it`s annoying. You have a better word for it? Tragedy.
MURRAY: A comma.
BEHAR: Just comma.
MURRAY: Comma-da.
BEHAR: Comma-da we`ll call it.
MURRAY: But dra-medy always gives me the willies.
The fellow I`m working with though, Anderson, Wes Anderson. He`s really a great film maker; he`s a young man. I worked with him in a few movies. He calls me up because he, he knows how to find me.
BEHAR: He`s one of the few who actually can find you.
MURRAY: But I really enjoy working with him. He is a great -- he`s a great person. I really enjoy him personally.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: He does great movies. We have had great luck. We`ve had good success and some challenging times.
BEHAR: What was it like to work with Sophia Coppola?
MURRAY: She`s a doll; a total doll. She knows exactly what she wants to do and she does it. She is very soft-spoken. People think that that means she has no -- she is -- velvet hammer. She is very talented and very kind. Very sweet. Real nice.
BEHAR: Very kind. Her father is kind I think too?
MURRAY: Yes, yes, yes. Hey, very warm. Warm people.
BEHAR: But you know, both of us are in the comedy business. Or I used to be until I got this job.
MURRAY: Until success broke out. Yes. I know. This happens.
BEHAR: But we all did the comedy thing.
MURRAY: This is really great.
BEHAR: I`m enjoying this very much.
MURRAY: I think -- and I just love your show that`s why I wanted to come here.
BEHAR: Is that why?
MURRAY: You had someone on. That looks wholesome or something.
BEHAR: It looks wholesome?
MURRAY: Well it looked. I don`t know -- maybe that is a disgusting word. It just looked -- friendly and it looked like it was -- you know people weren`t dying over it. You know, there was no bloodshed.
BEHAR: It`s a friendly show. You have time to talk and elucidate.
I want to talk about comedy a little bit with you. Because you know, again, Woody Allen, he is -- I keep quoting him. But he used to say or he said that the industry does not respect comedy really. They hardly ever give an Oscar to a comedy.
MURRAY: He can say that because he is the only one that ever got one in our lifetime. But he`s accurate, true.
BEHAR: Yes. What about "Tootsie"? Didn`t "Tootsie" win?
MURRAY: No, "Tootsie" didn`t. They gave it to that little man with the diaper. It was the one that --
BEHAR: Who?
MURRAY: It was "Gandhi". You know "Gandhi".
BEHAR: Gandhi". Well, that`s a tough act to follow. Hilarious as "Gandhi" was.
MURRAY: I know. I mean, he was a nut. He was a nut, you know.
But no, Sydney Pollack used to tell me that he had to go to every award show for like a whole year and every time it was Sir Richard Attenborough giving the speech about this little man with the diaper. He had to sit through it like 11 times. Any way the little man with the diaper won that year.
BEHAR: But it should have won, "Tootsie", because you know comedy is harder to do --
MURRAY: It`s great.
BEHAR: It`s much more difficult.
MURRAY: It`s much harder.
BEHAR: Why doesn`t it get the respect?
MURRAY: I don`t know. I don`t understand why. But "Groundhog Day" to me was a good -- a comedy --
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: But what a brilliant screen play that was. That kid wrote an amazing screen play.
BEHAR: Who wrote that?
MURRAY: Great.
BEHAR: I`m sorry. I`ll never forget what`s his name?
MURRAY: Oh God, Danny Reuben -- I`m sorry, thank you.
BEHAR: Danny Reuben.
MURRAY: That was close.
BEHAR: Well, he has OCD thank God.
MURRAY: For some reason I wanted to say Andy Glover. I have no idea who Andy Glover is.
BEHAR: And he just got married, I think Danny Glover.
MURRAY: Yes.
MURRAY: Oh, Danny Glover.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: Well, maybe that`s where I was -- and then came up with Andy because I know Danny Glover wasn`t right, so I changed the first word to Andy.
BEHAR: Whatever.
MURRAY: Anyway, that was a good one. But like "It Happened One" night was a comedy, and that was -- that won the Best Picture, but that`s 1935 or something.
BEHAR: `39, I think it was the same year --
MURRAY: Way back --
BEHAR: -- as all of the other ones.
MURRAY: Way back.
BEHAR: Yes, "Gone with the Wind" and all of that.
MURRAY: But you know, they don`t -- but now, they have this crazy thing where they get to nominate ten films for the best movie.
BEHAR: Oh yes, that`s new.
MURRAY: I don`t -- yes, that`s this year. I don`t know how they`re going to -- sometimes they can`t find ten great films, you know. So that would be interesting.
BEHAR: That`s going to be hard.
MURRAY: So it`s clear enough that something could win now that wouldn`t, you know I think "Zombieland" might have a chance.
BEHAR: "Zombieland" definitely, that`s a really --
MURRAY: That something like that could --
BEHAR: That`s up there "Citizen Kane" --
MURRAY: -- something could win now. Because really you know, it`s all voting and, you know --
BEHAR: Ok, will you stay with me for a little while longer?
MURRAY: Sure.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back with Bill Murray and Danny Glover.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, let`s start planning, who knows shorthand? Great, Linda Lutra Lutra, you`ve got some dry paper? Here we go, Mole helping Europeo, what do you got?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can see in the dark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s incredible. We can use that. Linda?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rabbit, or Atalicus Cunicula (ph)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m fast.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You bet you are, Linda?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beaver Castor Fiber (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can chew through wood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amazing Linda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Badger Mellus Mellus (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Demolitions expert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What, since when?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Explosions, flames, burning things, demolitions expert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok, Linda?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: (SINGING "PHYSICAL")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s so inspired.
I`m back with Bill Murray, one of the stars of the new movie "Fantastic Mr. Fox", that clip we just saw. You were David Letterman`s very first guest. What year was that?
MURRAY: I don`t know.
BEHAR: God knows, a long time ago.
MURRAY: I don`t know. He was still with us then.
BEHAR: He was still with us. Are you shocked by all of the revelations about Letterman?
MURRAY: I think it`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: It`s ridiculous?
MURRAY: Stupid, ridiculous.
BEHAR: Yes, ok.
MURRAY: He`s a nice -- he`s good man.
BEHAR: I know he is.
MURRAY: You know, the guy works in New York for 25 years, is he going to have a date once in a while? So what?
BEHAR: He had a lot of dates.
MURRAY: He was great. If he didn`t, then we`d have issues.
BEHAR: But that was the thing that was shocking you know. I`ve done his show. I did it a long time ago. He doesn`t talk to you before. He barely talks to you during, and then he kind of is mysterious. So everybody always thought he was just a nerd who just disappeared into the woodwork and then we find out, no, au contraire.
MURRAY: Well, the quality of his work speaks for what kind of person he is.
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: He`s very committed to doing his job.
BEHAR: He`s very good, oh, yes. Absolutely.
MURRAY: He does it better than anyone.
BEHAR: Yes, now, we would --
MURRAY: Present company included.
BEHAR: That`s all right.
MURRAY: So you know, he`s great.
BEHAR: We found out during the break that a badger is a weasel. Now, I find that -- badgering somebody is negative and being a little weasel is negative. And yet this is the most endearing little animal that I`ve been accustomed to -- I`m in love with him.
MURRAY: Yes -- people are thinking that weasel thing with the wrong way. I think that some of your people that are uninformed. This is really the king of the jungle right here. This is one of the kings of the American jungle.
BEHAR: And when you did him -- well you didn`t do him -- you played him --
MURRAY: What time are we on here?
BEHAR: 9:00 o`clock.
Ok, when you played the Badger, you played him with a Wisconsin accent.
MURRAY: Well, I tried. I`d worked --
BEHAR: Where did you learn that?
MURRAY: Well, I`m from Illinois but I got these tapes of NPR Radio from Wisconsin, listening to these people talking about planting things and I really had it. It was great too. But he`s -- I did a couple of takes and you kind of went -- you know the thing is more of like a Savile Row lawyer kind of a Badger.
BEHAR: A what?
MURRAY: Yes, exactly, exactly. That`s right. That stops all conversation. I`m just going to go have a cup of coffee and think about that, ok.
BEHAR: Yes, ok. Now -- and let`s go back to your career for a minute. Because I`m interested in that a little bit. Because you were -- you exploded in a way. I mean not literally, but figuratively exploded in the `80s. You had "Ghostbusters", "Meatballs" and "Stripes" and "Caddy Shack" all in a very short period of time.
So did you freak out -- a lot of people do from the fame.
MURRAY: Well, you know, everyone -- I`ll give you my whole wrap on fame, I think everyone becomes a jerk for about two years when they become famous. And you get to -- I give you -- so I give people two years to figure it out and pull it together.
But you end up behaving poorly because there`s just no training for it. There`s nothing your parents ever did no matter what kind of people they are because everything just gets different. The information coming to you becomes differently -- comes differently, and people treat you differently sort of and everything changes for us.
So it takes you a little while to figure it out --
BEHAR: Yes.
MURRAY: -- but then you can figure it out and then it`s ok. And I was really fortunate. I was just behind two friends of mine, Danny Aykroyd and John Belushi who were like in a class ahead of me sort of at "Saturday Night Life". So I got to see them, you know, do the things that I said I`m never going to do that one. But I did anyway. But I mean, I learned a lot - - I learned a lot from having them in front of me.
BEHAR: Maybe they were role models?
MURRAY: No, they weren`t role models.
BEHAR: Negative.
MURRAY: But they`re -- no, no, no.
BEHAR: No?
MURRAY: They are really wonderful people.
BEHAR: No, I mean, in terms of well, Belushi, we know what happened, he had a rough time and --
MURRAY: Well, he -- he was also one of the most fun people you`ll ever meet in your life.
BEHAR: He was hilarious.
MURRAY: He could more fun out of nothing. It was just an accident. He had like that -- he had like that -- whatever that sleep apnea thing going on.
BEHAR: Oh, really.
MURRAY: It was just a weird accident. It shouldn`t have happened. He was a lightweight in terms of that sort of thing. And it was just an accident.
BEHAR: You know, we -- we asked the Twitter people out there. Do you Twitter? No, well, a lot of people like this twittering thing. And they twittered me some question.
MURRAY: Oh, I understand. The twits will do that.
BEHAR: And the first question is, "First a groundhog, now a badger, is there something he`s not telling us about his relationship with gerbils?
MURRAY: Ok, all right, this is -- this is the audience you`re getting and you`ve got to be careful. And you ought to be careful.
BEHAR: But they`re out there, you know.
MURRAY: Those stories are all a pocketful (ph).
BEHAR: Ok. I have to take another break.
Up next, more of your questions for Bill Murray. Back in a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t marry you until I finish college and become an established concert pianist and the first female open heart surgeon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll wait for you. I`ll wait for these too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Bill Murray with the late Gilda Radner on "SNL".
Ok, I have a couple of questions from the twitters -- twitterers. "Hey, Joy --
MURRAY: They`ll take over the show, you know.
BEHAR: I know.
MURRAY: Be careful. You are new here. You don`t know how they`re going to operate. It`s like letting -- it`s like letting the executives tell you what to put on. Be careful.
BEHAR: Like the badgers, underground. "Hey, Joy, ask him if he realizes he is super-sexy. I can`t be the only woman that thinks so. And how come `People` magazine leaves him out of the sexiest man list?"
MURRAY: Yes. There you go.
BEHAR: What do you think?
MURRAY: How come? I don`t know why. Every year I grab my issue and my subscription comes to the door, I rip it open. And I`m never on the cover.
BEHAR: You know why?
MURRAY: I just rushed right past Johnny Depp. I saw him in the grocery store the other night. It`s Johnny Depp.
Johnny Depp. He is cute, sure, but --
BEHAR: You know why they don`t pick you?
MURRAY: Sure, just let me -- George Clooney won three times. He called himself three-time sexiest man alive.
BEHAR: George Clooney yes. That`s true. He is a recidivist.
But you know, the reason that you are not on the cover, you don`t have a publicist. That`s the reason.
MURRAY: I know. I got to get there.
BEHAR: You know? Ok. "Who, dead or alive would Bill look to work with?" That`s what the question is.
MURRAY: Well, it would be nice -- you just saw Gilda. It would be nice to have Gilda and Belushi. They`d be fun. They`ll be probably my number one and two choices.
BEHAR: How about the living?
MURRAY: The living.
BEHAR: Scorsese.
MURRAY: He is pretty intense, that guy. He`s great. My asking him to work with him is sort of like, you know, some of the kids saying I have a chance with Princess Diana. It`s not going to happen.
BEHAR: Why? The Irish mob. I could see you doing the Irish mob.
MURRAY: That`s true. I like the actor -- I did work a little bit, not exactly with him, an actor named John Heard, English actor. He`s a guy I really like.
BEHAR: Oh yes. He played Caligula in the "I, Claudius" series.
MURRAY: He`s fantastic. He`s just fantastic.
Michael Gambon is another English guy. Who do I like?
BEHAR: How about women? Well, you now worked with Meryl Streep, a great American actress. Vanessa Redgrave.
MURRAY: Foreigner. Let`s see. I don`t know.
BEHAR: How about somebody like Steve Martin who`s going to be hosting the Oscars.
MURRAY: I worked with him.
BEHAR: You`re over him. Next.
MURRAY: Next. I don`t know. I can`t think -- get the Twitter people to make a list of people.
BEHAR: All right. Never mind. That`s too hard sometimes. It`s too hard. How about this one? Before we go I want you to -- what? Go ahead.
MURRAY: I like -- I`ll think of it.
BEHAR: "What was your most mind-altering experience?
MURRAY: Mind-altering. If I could remember, I would. What was that? I had it then it was gone.
BEHAR: Did you ever do LSD in your day?
MURRAY: Oh, I don`t know.
BEHAR: You don`t remember?
MURRAY: Maybe -- could have. Could have. Could have.
BEHAR: Is there anything you haven`t done that you would look to do still?
MURRAY: Well I have never done any crack. But I don`t know anyone that has any. I don`t know where to get it. I have no idea.
BEHAR: Bill. Thank you so much. You are absolutely delightful.
MURRAY: I would look to do a Shakespeare comedy. That`s what I want to do.
BEHAR: Oh, Shakespeare comedy, yes that`s a riot.
MURRAY: Well, they can be funny. The guy was funny -- that`s because the people that are playing him aren`t always very funny.
BEHAR: All right. Thanks to Bill Murray.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Dick Van Dyke has had an incredible life as an actor, singer, dancer. And I bet you didn`t know, he once turned down a career offer from the mob. Apparently, they made him an offer he could refuse. He talks all about it in his new book, "My Lucky Life in and Out of Showbiz." I asked Dick how much luck actually had to do with his success. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DICK VAN DYKE, ACTOR: When they came to me to write a book, I said, well, my life`s kind of bland, really. But as I started talking about it, I realized almost everything that happened to me was because I was in the right place at the right time.
BEHAR: Well --
VAN DYKE: I just lucked into it.
BEHAR: -- you had talent also. Come on. You`re too modest.
VAN DYKE: Well, you`ve got to be able to deliver once you get the break.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right. That`s right. How old are you now?
VAN DYKE: 85 years old.
BEHAR: 85 years old. And all the hair is still there? Your skin looks good. You still look great. I mean --
VAN DYKE: Thank you. Good genes, I guess.
BEHAR: Yes, I think so. I think so.
VAN DYKE: If I had taken better care -- what is the old line? If I`d known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.
BEHAR: Exactly. Now at first you thought Mary was wrong for the role on "The Dick Van Dyke Show."
VAN DYKE: Well, she was I thought too young. She was about 12 years younger than I. And I said to Carl, she`s pretty, and she is a good actress, but can she be funny? I`m probably the last person ever to ask that question.
BEHAR: Well, they remember in "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" when she did that incredible laughing (inaudible)--
VAN DYKE: With the clown, the clown?
BEHAR: With the clown. Remember that?
VAN DYKE: Oh, that was one of the greatest episodes I ever saw.
BEHAR: That was something, I think.
VAN DYKE: She just had it.
BEHAR: I don`t think people realize how hard it is to cry and laugh and cry and laugh like that and make it funny.
VAN DYKE: She was the best crier on television.
BEHAR: Yes. But it`s hard to cry funny.
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. The minute she said -- the first time she said, oh Rob, I said, we`re home.
BEHAR: Oh, Rob! OK, you and Mary were very funny together on "The Dick Van Dyke Show." So let`s look at a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DYKE: Little guys like that develop powerful crushes on their teachers. Boy, I remember I had a teacher that I would have married in a minute. Miss Eisenstad (ph), gorgeous redhead with a figure like you never--
MARY TYLER MOORE, ACTRESS: What year was this?
VAN DYKE: Third.
MOORE: Grade school.
VAN DYKE: No, college.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You were hot for her, weren`t you, Dick?
VAN DYKE: Yes, I had a real crush on her.
BEHAR: You really did.
VAN DYKE: And she claims she had one on me, too. Which is I think why it worked so well. A lot of people thought we were married in real life.
BEHAR: But you never actually consummated.
VAN DYKE: Oh, no, not in those days, no.
BEHAR: No consummation.
VAN DYKE: No consummation.
BEHAR: Let me talk about some of the things in your book that were kind of, you know, some demons in your life.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You say your life wasn`t interesting. You had a bout with alcoholism. I mean, you were married and divorced and women died on you. I mean, you know, you`ve had some things happen to you.
VAN DYKE: They keep dying on me.
BEHAR: You know. But let`s talk about the alcoholism. Were you really an alcoholic, a real one, or were you just a tippler?
VAN DYKE: Well, I always thought I was just a heavy drinker, but they told me, you know, you`re an alcoholic. You have to own up to that.
What happened, I worked nightclubs in my 20s and never drank. I was a teetotaler. And in my early 30s, I had always been kind of shy. And trouble with strangers, I`d break out in a sweat. And I found a martini or two, and I suddenly became uninhibited and I thought funny. And -- I never drank in public or at work or anything of that kind. But I had too many at home, you know, five and six became eight or nine. And I would go to work with a hangover.
BEHAR: Eight or nine martinis?
VAN DYKE: Not all together. No, I found other things.
BEHAR: But hard liquor. Now, we`re not talking even a glass of wine. We`re talking about hard alcohol.
VAN DYKE: Yes, alcohol, vodka and things of that kind.
BEHAR: You must have been on your face.
VAN DYKE: What?
BEHAR: You must have been on your face.
VAN DYKE: No, I was -- I had an empty -- a hollow leg, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN DYKE: No, I never fell down or anything. And the strange thing was, I never slurred my speech. My wife could never tell. I did a sketch about that. But anyway, I realized -- I tried to quit and couldn`t. I had to have that drink in the evening. So that`s when I went for help.
BEHAR: What would happen to you if you couldn`t get that drink at night? What would happen to you?
VAN DYKE: Nervousness, you know.
BEHAR: Yes.
VAN DYKE: I think I probably could have bypassed it, but I just didn`t have the will.
BEHAR: You didn`t want to.
VAN DYKE: I didn`t want to, right.
BEHAR: You did not want to. Did you go to AA?
VAN DYKE: I went to AA, went to rehab. And in those days, it was before the rehab. They locked you up with the psychos.
BEHAR: Really?
VAN DYKE: I was in a room with a guy who saw little guys in top hats dancing across his chest.
BEHAR: Really?
VAN DYKE: And I thought, I`ve got to get out of here.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So it`s like the bins (ph), they used to call it, right? You were in the bins (ph) with the--
VAN DYKE: Oh, God.
BEHAR: So they would mix alcoholics with mentally ill people?
VAN DYKE: And people -- people crazy, yes.
BEHAR: That is unbelievable.
VAN DYKE: Yes. Well, they put -- they bumped them all together psychologically. You know, there was something wrong mentally with the person who drank.
BEHAR: What about AA? You never went to AA?
VAN DYKE: I did. I went to AA, too.
BEHAR: Did that help you?
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. Yes.
BEHAR: That helps a lot of people.
VAN DYKE: AA is a marvelous organization.
BEHAR: And you know, the thing about you is you were early to come out with your addiction. A lot of people in those days used to keep it under wraps, but you actually told it.
VAN DYKE: Yes, it was in the early `70s. You remember Mercedes McCambridge, the actress?
BEHAR: Oh, yes, sure.
VAN DYKE: She was the first one to ever come out. She went before Congress. And I thought, this is a good way to remove that stigma, you know, that it`s not skid-row bums and people with no will power. I`m a middle-class guy, and it happened to me. So -- I`m glad I did that. It`s gotten -- I`ve gotten a lot of good feedback from it.
BEHAR: Well, that was good of you, because then Oprah came along and Phil Donahue and everybody was claiming to be an alcoholic.
VAN DYKE: Yes, well, nobody today hadn`t been to rehab.
BEHAR: And where are you going to meet a man if you don`t go to AA these days? Match.com doesn`t work as well as AA meetings.
VAN DYKE: People -- they use it to network who aren`t even alcoholics.
BEHAR: Exactly. Now, all this time you were what they call a functioning alcoholic.
VAN DYKE: That`s (inaudible).
BEHAR: Because you were working on "The Dick Van Dyke Show."
VAN DYKE: Sure.
BEHAR: And other things you were doing, "Mary Poppins."
VAN DYKE: Do some of those dance numbers with a hangover, it`s hard.
BEHAR: And how did you get through supercalifragilistic- expialidocious when you were drunk?
VAN DYKE: Oh, I was never drunk. I never was drunk at work, ever.
BEHAR: No?
VAN DYKE: No, I didn`t do that.
BEHAR: So you didn`t really start drinking until you went home?
VAN DYKE: That`s correct.
BEHAR: I see.
VAN DYKE: I`d go home and have my martini and then another one. That was the problem.
BEHAR: OK, all right. We`re going to take a break. And when we come back, I want to find out how you became a love child. I love that. We`ll be right back with a little surprise also for Dick. Yeah.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Dick Van Dyke and Julie Andrews in the classic "Mary Poppins." She`s a great girl, Julie, she`s a lovely person.
VAN DYKE: Oh, what a lady.
BEHAR: Now, at 18, you found out you were a love child. Now, you told me you`re 85 now. So this is back in the day when a love child was something to be ashamed of. Nowadays, everyone`s a love child.
VAN DYKE: You`re right. But this was 1925 when I was born.
BEHAR: Wow. Yes, yes, yes.
VAN DYKE: It was during the war, and my mother was washing dishes. I was drying. And I said, you know, mom, I`m going to get drafted. And I think I`d better join something like the Air Force, because I`m going to be 18 in March. She said, I have something to tell you. You`re already 18. I said, what? And she said, well, you were premature. Oh, you had no fingernails or anything. And my grandmother said, baloney.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Grandma, she said -- she said the truth.
VAN DYKE: But in those days, we lived in Danville, Illinois. They went to Missouri for a few days, had me, and brought me back, because it was a terrible scandal in those days. I`m kind of proud of being a love child.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, as I said, they`re all love children now.
VAN DYKE: Of course. But you didn`t talk about that in those days. But the first time, I tell in the book, nobody knew that.
BEHAR: But your father was your biological father?
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes, he was my real dad.
BEHAR: No, the parents (ph), they had a shotgun, they got married and they- -
VAN DYKE: That`s right. Yes, I don`t blame them at all.
BEHAR: The other thing, another thing about you is that you were married for 35 years to your childhood sweetheart.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You got married very young.
VAN DYKE: Very young.
BEHAR: And then you fell for Michelle Triola.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, we know Michelle Triola because she was in that palimony suit--
VAN DYKE: With Lee Marvin, that`s true.
BEHAR: -- with Lee Marvin. She made palimony a word that`s in the dictionary now.
VAN DYKE: Of course, yes.
BEHAR: Yeah. So now, tell me what happened there. Such interesting stuff.
VAN DYKE: Unfortunately, the spouses of performers have a terrible, terrible life. They get shunted aside, pushed aside, ignored. And my wife, as proud as she was of me, just hated show business, for good reason. And she wanted me at about 40 to leave, to retire.
BEHAR: Leave showbiz.
VAN DYKE: And of course, I loved to perform. And on top of that, I couldn`t afford to retire at that time. And we moved to Arizona, to the desert, and kind of away from show business. And it just wasn`t working. And I had to keep working, for two reasons. I loved it, and I needed the money. And at that time, Michelle was working at William Morris, my agent. And we used to have--
BEHAR: Well, that guarantees that you`ll never work right there.
VAN DYKE: Right.
BEHAR: I`m sorry. Go ahead. Sorry.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: You`re absolutely right.
BEHAR: Yes.
VAN DYKE: But we became acquainted, had lunch once in a while. And she, of course, was show business oriented and loved it and supported me. And just one of those things, as I explain in the book that happened, everything was amicable. You know, there wasn`t any -- nobody was angry or anything. It just happened.
BEHAR: It just happened.
VAN DYKE: Divorce is something that I never dreamed would happen to me. But it did.
BEHAR: It did. And you started to see Michelle.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: Triola for a long time.
VAN DYKE: Yes, we were together 37 years.
BEHAR: 37 years. How long were you with your wife?
VAN DYKE: About 30.
BEHAR: 30. And--
VAN DYKE: So I was never a bachelor.
BEHAR: No, you were never a bachelor.
VAN DYKE: I went from my mother to my wife. And to this day, I can`t bear to be alone.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, you`re a serial monogamist.
VAN DYKE: Exactly.
BEHAR: The only thing is that you never got married to Michelle. You were divorced at that point. Why didn`t you marry her?
VAN DYKE: She was a procrastinator.
BEHAR: And a palimony freak, apparently.
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was all on paper. But I kept saying, come on, let`s get married, I want to get married. We will. We will. And she just kept putting it off.
BEHAR: She didn`t want to get married.
VAN DYKE: She wanted to, but she just--
BEHAR: She just didn`t (inaudible)--
VAN DYKE: I guess it was that independence, you know, didn`t want to be dependent.
BEHAR: I understand it. I`m with a guy 29 years this July, and I`m not married to him.
VAN DYKE: Is that right?
BEHAR: Yes. I understand Michelle Triola.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Except if there`s any palimony, he`s going to get it from me.
Now you have -- here`s the other interesting thing. Before we go to that, we have a surprise for you. There is an old friend of yours on the phone. Hello?
CARL REINER: Hello there.
BEHAR: Who`s that voice?
REINER: I think it`s Carl Reiner.
VAN DYKE: Oh, my God, Carl!
REINER: Dick, oh, it`s so nice to hear you talk about your life. You know, I want to say one thing. I`ve known Dick for so many years and we worked together so closely. When I read his book, by the way, which I think is one of the most thrilling, exciting books to read, because he tells it all. He tells things about himself I had never dreamed were in his life.
And one of the things I remembered is what -- well, I knew he was a good person, but the way he took care of everybody. Dick, when I read about you taking care of -- Michelle Triola had been married once to a guy named Skip Ward (ph) 130 years before he met her. And when he heard later on that Skip Ward was in trouble, he took care of him on his death bed. I said, this is over and beyond the call of being a good guy.
BEHAR: That`s very nice. You`re a good person to know in case anything happens.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But Carl is the creator --
VAN DYKE: My favorite human being in the world.
BEHAR: Let`s explain to people who are under 50 that Carl created "The Dick Van Dyke Show," is a great performer.
VAN DYKE: For himself.
BEHAR: For himself. And then you got the part that he was supposed to get, right?
VAN DYKE: That`s right. The network didn`t like his performance.
BEHAR: Carl, why didn`t you -- what happened there? Tell us about--
REINER: Well, you know, I did a pilot with somebody called Barbara Billingsley. We showed it to people. They said, it was OK. And horses and guns played a lot that year, and situation comedies were out. And I went on to do some movies. I wrote the first couple of movies for Doris Day. And then somebody knew that I had written 13 episodes for myself. And they were -- (inaudible), and they were so upset that it was laying around. So they called me in to see Sheldon Leonard (ph), who had this company. And Sheldon said, we`d like to do that show. And I said, no, Sheldon, I don`t want to fail with the same material again. He says, you won`t fail because we`ll get a better actor to play you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I guess he figured that one out.
REINER: And he suggested Dick Van Dyke, and Dick was in "Bye Bye Birdie." I knew of him. I went to see him, I said, my God. I didn`t know the extent of his talent. I knew he could sing and dance, but I didn`t know that he was a totally coordinated man, the most coordinated human being I`ve ever met.
BEHAR: Very coordinated. You know, you decided to call it "The Dick Van Dyke Show," Carl, right?
REINER: Yes.
BEHAR: And I read in Dick`s book that Rose Marie, who is famous -- also on "Hollywood Squares," Rose Marie to block, that`s what I call her. Rose Marie said, what`s a Dick Van Dyke? Now, why did she say that, Dick?
VAN DYKE: Because nobody ever heard of me. That`s why the show didn`t do very well.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN DYKE: Everybody said, what`s a Dick Van Dyke?
REINER: By the way, that`s exactly why I promoted the fact that we should call it "The Dick Van Dyke Show," because I was very upset that all kinds of game show hosts were calling the star of the show. And I said, those guys are not stars. They are game show hosts. I said, the real star of the show is Dick Van Dyke. And they said, well, nobody knows him. I said, yes, but that`s how they`ll get to know him. We`ll call this "The Dick Van Dyke Show," they`ll say, oh, that must be the guy who is star of the show, playing Rob Petrie. Anyway--
BEHAR: Carl, those were the days when people like you were running things and you created stars. Now they want you to be a star already before they give you a shot.
VAN DYKE: Overnight, yes.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s a little different these days.
VAN DYKE: It sure is.
BEHAR: Carl, thanks so much for joining us. We love you so much.
VAN DYKE: Thank you, Carl.
REINER: I`ve got to say one thing before I leave.
BEHAR: OK.
REINER: I saw Joy Behar in her first incarnation when Estelle Reiner was opening for the first time in New York at Green Street (ph).
BEHAR: That`s right.
REINER: You were a young singer -- not singer, teacher, and so pretty and cute and sexy. And I said, who is that girl? And it turned out to be you, Joy Behar.
BEHAR: Thank you, Carl. And you know, we feel bad about Estelle. You know, Carl and Estelle Reiner were married for so many years.
VAN DYKE: I know.
BEHAR: She passed away a few years ago. How are you doing with that, Carl?
REINER: Well, I think of her every night. 65 years, you don`t lose somebody.
BEHAR: And you`re hanging out with Mel Brooks all the time, I hear from some of my spies. So give him our best and tell him he could come on my show if he wants to. I`d love to have him here. And you.
REINER: I will tell him that tonight.
BEHAR: OK, thank you, Carl. We`re going to have more in a minute with Dick Van Dyke when we return. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DYKE: Put (inaudible) under my neck.
MOORE: Did you pay the bill?
VAN DYKE: I paid the bill. I got it. All right? That is just about everything, huh?
MOORE: How about the baby?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with Dick Van Dyke. You know, the early sitcom that you did was just the best thing. It was just the greatest.
VAN DYKE: It was the must fun I ever had.
BEHAR: The most fun, of course. You had a great team, look -- and it clicked, it had chemistry.
Some of the people that you`ve run into along the way, just -- before we have to go, because we`re running out of time. But like for instance, Walt Disney himself cast you in "Mary Poppins."
VAN DYKE: Right.
BEHAR: What was he like? You know, the rumors are that he was an anti- Semite. Did you ever hear that?
VAN DYKE: I have heard that. I never saw any of it at all. He was an old shoe. He was just the way he appeared. Everybody called him Uncle Walt, and he had that avuncular attitude. Easy-going and never lost his inner child. He was a big kid.
BEHAR: Well, he had to be for that stuff, yes.
VAN DYKE: Of course.
BEHAR: So you don`t think that`s true about him?
VAN DYKE: I don`t think so. No.
BEHAR: That he was anti-Semitic.
VAN DYKE: I really don`t think so.
BEHAR: I wonder how these things get started. And then I understand that someone in the mob wanted to manage you at one point. That was interesting.
VAN DYKE: Way, way back in the early `50s, we were looking at Martha Ray`s 5:00 Club (ph) in Miami, and this guy came to me and wanted me to leave my partner. I had a partner at that time, said he`d pay all my expenses, buy my clothes, write the material, and arrange for the clubs.
BEHAR: And pay you $15,000 a week.
VAN DYKE: Those days -- $15,000 a week, I--
BEHAR: You were making 300.
VAN DYKE: Yeah.
BEHAR: We figured it out.
VAN DYKE: How did you find out?
BEHAR: We did the math.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: And my agent said, are you crazy? They`ll own you. You`ll never get away from them. I didn`t understand it in those days. So I didn`t sign up.
BEHAR: Well, good, you didn`t. OK. One more story before we go. You danced for Fred Astaire. Did he think you were a good dancer? The great Fred Astaire?
VAN DYKE: I heard him say on the air, and very few people heard this. He was on a morning talk show. And he was asked, what do you think about the new crop of young dancers? He said, I like the way Dick Van Dyke moves. I almost drove off the freeway. I was going to work. I got to work, said, did you hear what Fred Astaire -- to this day I haven`t found anybody who heard him say it.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: But I heard him.
BEHAR: You heard him say it. That`s all that counts.
VAN DYKE: Of course.
BEHAR: And also, that, you know, you were very big -- you were at a Martin Luther King rally one time. Of course, this was many years before the man was assassinated.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: And it must have been -- you were nervous then, weren`t you?
VAN DYKE: Oh, I was -- he was at the coliseum out on a football field, and I was sitting next to him. And just before we went out, they said -- we were -- there had already been a threat on Dr. King`s life.
BEHAR: Even then? That was--
VAN DYKE: Yes. And this was the early `60s. And I`m embarrassed to say I sat like this next to King, hoping the guy was a good shot.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I can`t tell you what a pleasure it`s been to spend this time.
VAN DYKE: Thank you, Joy, I loved it.
BEHAR (singing): I`m so glad to spend this time with you -- that was what`s her name, that`s Carol Burnett. Right? I`m getting everything mixed up now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
