Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Kidnapping, Murder of Lawyer for Former Chief Judge of Saddam Hussein's Revolutionary Court; Latest Developments With Hurricane Wilma

Aired October 21, 2005 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Again, this news just in to CNN. A lawyer for a former chief judge of Saddam Hussein's Revolutionary Court was kidnapped on Thursday. This morning, his body was found. He is dead.
Now, this lawyer had been representing Awad Hamad al-Bander, the former chief judge. He is accused of having sentenced to death 143 residents of Dujail following a failed assassination attempt back in 1982.

As you know, Saddam Hussein and seven others are on trial for those crimes right now.

Let's head live to Baghdad to make sense of all of this.

Aneesh Raman is there -- good morning, Aneesh.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning to you.

We are getting confirmation from police that, in fact, Saadoun Janabi, the lawyer for one of Saddam Hussein's co-defendants in this first trial was found dead this morning. As you say, he was kidnapped late yesterday, around 8:30 p.m. local, in his office in the northern part of Baghdad.

Two white Nissan pickup trucks showed up outside of his office. At least five armed men broke into the office, grabbed Miers Janabi and whisked him away. Police had been searching for him since that time. Today they say they have found his body.

Now, as you mentioned, his client was Awad al-Bander, the former chief judge of the Revolutionary Court under Saddam Hussein. Allegedly he is the man that sentenced the 143 villagers of Dujail to death. That is the case that they are confronting in this first of perhaps some 12 trials.

The implications, of course, quite severe. The other defense lawyers will be re-looking at their security. Their names have been out in the public arena. But really only Saddam's lawyers' names have been highly publicized. And if you'll recall, the video that we saw out of the courtroom showed the defendants, it showed the chief judge, the prosecutor, but only a select few lawyers, we think just Saddam Hussein's lawyers.

So now all of the lawyers will, again, of course, be aware of the sensitive time that they are operating in -- Carol.

COSTELLO: You're right, your first inclination is to think that somebody from Dujail kidnapped this man.

I mean is there any indication as to that this morning?

RAMAN: Well, I think it could be someone from Dujail. It could -- I mean it could virtually be anyone. This is a country that is still very much reeling from this recent past, from the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein and his regime.

Just a day before his kidnapping was the first trial session. It brought to light incredibly high emotions among Iraqis, many of whom, especially in the Shia and Kurdish areas, were explicitly, on Wednesday, saying we cannot wait for Saddam Hussein to be executed, Saddam must die.

Emotions are high and so clearly those who are representing these defendants, who are representing the members of the former regime are incredibly high profile as victims of perhaps retribution by any or all people that suffered under Saddam Hussein -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And who's responsible for protecting them?

RAMAN: Well, as far as we can tell, there is no protection provided. It's really up to these lawyers themselves when they take this job to also be concerned of their security.

I spoke recently with Tariq Aziz. You'll recall he was a former member of the regime. He is in custody. He is not up for trial right now. I spoke to his lawyer and he was saying that, you know, he is not deterred by this. He plans to still represent his client.

But it really, as far as we can tell at the moment, is up to the defense lawyers themselves. This is something they have chosen to do and security is something that they have to be concerned with, as well, Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, and you have to wonder if this is going to affect the trial, if the other defense attorneys will just say hey, it's too dangerous, we're out of here.

RAMAN: Exactly. Even now...

COSTELLO: I know you said most of them would stay.

But go on.

RAMAN: Yes, no, even members of Saddam's defense team who are not here are expressing, in reports, concern for Khalil Dulaimi, who is Saddam's lead defense attorney. And so if we do see defense attorneys stepping down, that could have implications on the trial. It could delay the proceedings further than the 40-day adjournment that we've seen. November 28th is when we're set to see this trial resume. But, also, we understand, on Sunday there will be witness testimony involved in this case by a man who is a current detainee, who has a -- who is going to present witness testimony in terms of this Dujail case. He is ill with cancer and so they want to do this sooner rather than later. Whether or not that proceeding itself will now be postponed is yet to be seen. That is the most immediate implication this could have -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Aneesh Raman, we'll get back to you.

Thanks for that update, though.

We appreciate it.

Let's get an update on Wilma now.

Let's head to the forecast center and Jacqui Jeras.

This is such a strange storm -- Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It has been such a tough one. And it's so interesting on how the computer models have been handling it, because in the initial phases of this storm, they've been right on the money and now, as it's getting close to making landfall, unfortunately, they've been all over the place. And so there's been a lot of uncertainty to as exactly where Wilma is going to be going.

And even 90 miles away from Cancun right now, believe it or not, we're still not 100 percent sure whether or not this is going to make landfall. A lot of the reason for that is that the upper level winds, the steering winds are extremely light. That's why the storm is moving so slow, only at six miles per hour. And that's why we've seen so many of these wobbles we've been talking about over the last couple of days.

So we're not sure if it's just going to be brushing in here. It is possible it could make its way a little bit farther inland.

This is a radar picture out of Cancun. It's over an hour old, I want you to know that. So it's a little bit closer than that. But it gives you an idea of the structure of the storm and how well you can see the eye. And there you can see the eye wall of the storm.

It's packing winds of 150 miles per hour, so it's a very strong category four, not that far away from a category five, and there's still time for this to bump up to a category five before it could make landfall.

That will have a huge impact on what's going to be happening with Florida. If we get landfall, that would be best case scenario for the U.S. because that will weaken the storm quite a bit. But if it doesn't, if it stays over water, that means we could be facing a major hurricane for South Florida by the end of -- even after the weekend. We've pushed that back a little bit now, Carol, to probably late Monday.

COSTELLO: OK, so don't go away because Susan Candiotti, she's live in Cancun this morning. And she has a question for you.

So, Susan, are you there?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am.

Hi, Carol.

Good morning to you and to Jacqui.

I'm wondering if it stays offshore, we can still, I presume, expect to be (AUDIO GAP)...

COSTELLO: Uh-oh.

JERAS: Yes, we lost her video link.

COSTELLO: OK. You can see it by video phone.

And I don't know what her question was.

Brian -- I'm asking my executive producer. We lost her. She didn't give you a hint of what her question was, though?

JERAS: Well, I'm kind of guessing that maybe she's wondering that if it stays offshore, you know, how much damage is that still going to do and does that mean that Cancun is still going to get hit?

And, so, Susan, if that's your question, yes, you're still going to get hit fairly hard, just not nearly as bad.

The high force winds extend out about 85 miles from the center of the storm. And the storm itself is about 90 miles away from Cancun right now. So she's probably seeing -- obviously, we saw the torrential downpours. But she's probably seeing hurricane winds gust. And the hurricane force sustained winds are going to be arriving very soon.

If it doesn't make direct landfall, those winds are going to be still staying very strong. And either way, they're going to be getting torrential downpours, heavy rains. We're talking 10 to 15 inches, even possibly a little bit more.

COSTELLO: Wow!

JERAS: So either way, this is bad news, just not quite as bad for them if it doesn't quite make landfall.

COSTELLO: Yes -- oh, we've got Susan Candiotti back -- Susan, were you able to hear the answer to your purported question?

CANDIOTTI: Sorry, Carol, I was not, as we were transferring the line to better hear u.

I'm wondering, if this stays offshore, what is the worst this area can expect in terms of high force winds? Obviously, I guess we're well within that, what, 80 mile per hour envelope that we are in distance from hurricane Wilma, the eye wall?

JERAS: Right, Susan.

I was just explaining to our viewers that, yes, you're probably getting in just the leading edge now of the sustained hurricane force winds. If it stays offshore, that certainly will be better news for you. You won't get the strongest of winds onshore. But you're still already going to be dealing with some very gusty conditions and the rain will then be our more primary concern rather than the strongest of the winds.

COSTELLO: So 10 to 15 inches...

CANDIOTTI: Well, certainly...

COSTELLO: Go ahead, Susan.

CANDIOTTI: Currently, that's what we're feeling, Jacqui and Carol. You know, they were expecting at least 10 to 20 inches of rain here and obviously the winds are gusting. What a sea change from what it was 24 hours ago, when it was basically balmy here with broken skies.

Things deteriorated, I would say, around 10:00 last night. And it's been the same ever since, the winds getting more and more powerful.

I can tell you that the seaside resorts that many of your viewers are probably familiar with if they've been to Cancun were forced to evacuate over the last few days. Some of those people bussed to downtown hotels, where they are hunkering down either in schools that have been converted into shelters or in some hotels where they still had power last night. People basically hanging around in the lobbies. They did still have food. They were given some provisions and the ballrooms have been converted, basically, into shelters for them.

They are concerned, some of these people who have tried to get out but couldn't, so they're here for the duration. I talked to some people who are here on honeymoons, some people who had just arrived as early as Tuesday and were planning to get out on Saturday, very little likelihood that that is going to happen.

But it is empty here, the mayor making sure that hotels along the seaside resort are empty. But that is where we are reporting to you from. Only a handful of people who live here, employees, are helping management help to secure these facilities.

So for now, we're just going to watch to see, as you know, the storm, if it makes landfall, it is expected to happen around midday this day -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Susan, well, you be careful.

And, of course, you can hear the wind blowing through her phone line. And the pictures that we're showing beside her are old pictures. It's much worse there now. In fact, Susan has reported torrential downpours right now.

Twenty foot waves are reportedly hitting the Cuban coast, as well. More than 200,000 residents in western areas of Cuba are already on higher ground. The government made them move out ahead of the storm, but fears remain that heavy flooding could wash away entire towns.

In Florida, people are boarding up and moving out. The highways are pretty crowded heading away from the Gulf Coast. Mandatory evacuations for the Florida Keys could come tomorrow.

Florida Governor Jeb Bush is warning anyone south of the I-4 corridor to be ready, as a matter of fact. I-4 runs from Tampa to Orlando. People south of those cities urged to head north.

As with past seems, we're looking for your help. We're calling on all of you citizen journalists to send your pictures and send your stories to us. Log on to cnn.com/hurricane and click on send us your thoughts, photos and videos. But remember, don't take any chances out there. It's not worth risking your safety. It's just if you happen to get a picture, we'd like you to send it along to us.

There are new revelations this morning about the federal government's response to hurricane Katrina from FEMA's man on the ground in New Orleans. And the story he told a Senate committee investigating the storm's tragic aftermath is a chilling one.

CNN's Kathleen Koch has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Hurricane Katrina roared in, Marty Bahamonde sounded the alarm in New Orleans. He told senators he called FEMA immediately to say the worst case scenario had happened -- the levees had broken. And he asked for help.

MARTY BAHAMONDE, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY: FEMA headquarters knew at 11:00. Mike Brown knew at 7:00. Most of FEMA's operational staff knew by 9:00 that evening. And I don't know where that information went.

KOCH: Bahamonde says he waded to the Superdome, found little food there, little water. Stunned, he watched as thousands more were bused in.

BAHAMONDE: Just doubled the population and really took a bad situation and made it so much worse, when you had options to just drive them out of the city, across the bridge.

KOCH: Bahamonde sent an e-mail to FEMA Director Michael Brown Wednesday morning: "Hotels are kicking people out. Thousands gathering in the street with no food or water. Hundreds still being rescued from homes. Estimates are many will die within hours."

It's unclear whether he got a response. Hours later, Bahamonde was forwarded this e-mail from Brown's press secretary in Baton Rouge: "It's important that time is allowed for Mr. Brown to eat dinner. Given that Baton Rouge is back to normal, restaurants are getting busy. He needs much more than 20 or 30 minutes."

An exasperated Bahamonde responds: "Tell her that I just ate an MRE and went to the bathroom in the hallway of the Superdome, along with 30,000 other close friends. So I understand her concern about busy restaurants."

(on camera): Brown has not replied to CNN's request for a response. FEMA's new director calls Bahamonde "dedicated" and "hardworking" and says the agency has changed.

DAVID PAULISON, ACTING FEMA DIRECTOR: I can tell you at this point in time, this agency is in touch and this agency is ready to respond.

KOCH (voice-over): Senators investigating the Katrina response asked Bahamonde to conclude by reading his final e-mail to colleagues the week of Katrina.

BAHAMONDE: "I can't get out of my head the visions of children and babies I saw sitting there helpless, looking at me and hoping I could make a difference. And so I will, and you must, too. It is not what we do that is as important as who we are, and that's what those little kids' faces were counting on."

KOCH: Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Still to come this hour, more on the FEMA response to Katrina and the big business of hurricane relief. Carrie Lee is back. She has the details for you.

And later, hospitals in the storm zone -- we'll take a closer look at what they're doing to prepare for Wilma.

Also up next, Syria denies involvement in the assassination of Lebanon's former prime minister. Brent Sadler is live from Beirut.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: There is outrage in the Muslim world this morning brought on by U.S. soldiers shown on videotape allegedly violating the Geneva Convention. An Australian TV documentary shows the burning of bodies of Taliban fighters killed by U.S. troops in a firefight. The program alleges the bodies were deliberately desecrated as a psychological weapon to taunt other Taliban troops. The U.S. government has launched a full investigation and promises anyone who violated the Geneva Conventions or military law will be held accountable. A report on the assassination of the former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri, is reverberating in the capitals of Lebanon and Syria. The United Nations report says key government officials took part in planning the killing.

Let's head live to Beirut to find out more.

Brent Sadler is there -- good morning, Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

This is an astonishing dossier provided by the U.N. team that's been looking into the Hariri murder for the past four months.

Inside this report, allegations from witnesses that the loop of inquiry dragged in top members of the Syrian regime headed by President Bashar Al-Assad, including two members, two close relatives of the Syrian president himself.

The report also alleges that top Syrian officials, including Foreign Minister Farouk Al-Shara, a very long serving Syrian foreign minister, actually lied to U.N. investigators.

It's also alleged in this report that Lebanon's own president, Emil Lahoud, that his mobile telephone received a call just minutes before the February 14, Valentine's Day blast that killed former long serving Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and at least 20 others, though Lebanon's president has subsequently denied that he personally, personally received any such call.

Now, so far reaction from the Syrian capital, Damascus, has come from the information minister, who says the U.N. report is fabricated, allegations are unfounded and it has been politicized.

It was only last week that Syria's president, Bashar Al-Assad, gave CNN an exclusive interview in which he categorically denied that he or any of his senior officials could possibly have been involved in the Hariri murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BASHAR AL-ASSAD, SYRIA: This is again our principle and my principle. And I would never do such a thing in my life. What do we achieve? What do we achieve? I think what happened targeted Syria. That will affect our relations with the Lebanese people and with most of the countries. So we don't do it because it's against our interests and it's against my principle. I would never do it. It's impossible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: Well, the findings of the U.N. report fly directly in the face of those recent statements from the Syrian leader.

Also in this report, content about witnesses that say Rustom Ghazali, a general, head of security intelligence in Lebanon, also allegedly implicated in the Hariri assassination.

Also, the U.N. report draws the conclusion that it was most likely a suicide bomber that detonated the plus 2,000 pounds of explosives that tore through Rafik Hariri's motorcade, killing him and many of his entourage -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Brent Sadler reporting live from Beirut this morning.

FEMA and the business of hurricane relief -- first it was too little too late, now it's too much and to the wrong people. We'll take a closer look at the big bucks that flowed into the Gulf Coast after Katrina roared ashore and what government officials have to say about it now.

And speaking of business, if you're in the market for a new job, we'll tell you how to ace that interview. Have you ever been asked, you know, really dumb questions in an interview like where do you see yourself in five years? What are your weaknesses? We explore answers to those questions after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

COSTELLO: We've heard a lot -- we've heard from a lot of companies saying their earnings will be lower in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.

But Carrie Lee says some companies are doing well.

CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A boost to their bottom line, Carol, because of the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. A lot of cleanup efforts and other things.

CarMax, for one, and this is the company based in Virginia. They sell new and used cars. Well, they say sales are rising as hurricane victims come in and buy replacement cars.

Also, Cavalier Homes out of Alabama won contracts to build over 2,300 portable homes. A Florida transportation company called Landstar got $130 million in revenue for providing busses, trucks and planes for recovery efforts.

Now, some are criticizing these contracts, though. A Department of Transportation report this week questioned the Landstar deal and a government office is looking into a no bid, $40 million deal for portable classrooms after a report that the work could have been done for half the cost.

Now, Gulf Coast business owners are saying they haven't gotten a big enough piece of the pie. According to "USA Today," businesses in the affected states landed only 12 percent of the total value of the Katrina contracts awarded as of last week.

So definitely some frustration here, Carol. And, of course, when you think about local businesses in the New Orleans and even Mississippi area, well, you've got to get those local businesses up and running to get people to come back. So kind of a catch-22.

And I was in New Orleans last week. That's certainly some frustration that was discussed...

COSTELLO: Oh, it's a lot of frustration.

LEE: ... anecdotally. Yes.

COSTELLO: You know, I was just thinking of these companies charging, you know, an arm and a leg to do work in New Orleans and the other ravaged areas from Katrina. And there really isn't anything the government can do, because you'd have to prove that they were deliberately price gouging.

LEE: It's tough. And I talked to some people, guys who, say, run trucks, hauling garbage. They're promised a certain thing. They come to town. They're ready to do the work and then oh, it's a different situation. Or we're not getting paid as much as we said we were going to get paid.

So everyone has a story and...

COSTELLO: Oh, do they.

LEE: Some of them are making money from it, of course.

COSTELLO: A lot of money.

LEE: Yes.

COSTELLO: A quick look at the futures?

LEE: Futures looking up today, but we saw a lot of selling yesterday. The Dow Jones industrials down 133 points.

COSTELLO: Whoo!

LEE: One stock to watch today, Google. It's amazing, up 10 percent after the bell last night. The company saw profits up sevenfold from the year ago quarter.

COSTELLO: Holy cow!

LEE: So...

COSTELLO: There is no stopping Google.

LEE: There really is not.

So that's one stock to keep an eye on.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Carrie. LEE: OK.

COSTELLO: Still to come, Jacqui Jeras has the latest on the track of hurricane Wilma.

We're also live from Cancun. Oh, and Cancun is now feeling the force.

We'll also have a report from Sanibel Island, Florida, where they are watching and waiting.

Also, it's hammer time in Austin today, as Congressman Tom DeLay prepares for his first court appearance.

DAYBREAK will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: From the Time Warner Center in New York, this is DAYBREAK with Carol Costello.

COSTELLO: And good morning to you.

Thank you for waking up with us.

Coming up this half hour, more on hurricane Wilma. We've got several live reports ahead for you. Jacqui Jeras will be along in a minute to update us on the path of the storm.

And justice delayed -- we'll look at what's ahead for Texas Representative Tom DeLay.

But first, now in the news, the body of an attorney for one of the defendants on trial with Saddam Hussein has been found. The man who is on trial is the one we're seeing here. The attorney, his attorney, was kidnapped by gunmen from his office last night and his body was found near a Baghdad mosque today.

New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson says he believes North Korea remains flexible in upcoming nuclear talks. He was in the communist nation before heading to Japan. Those six nation nuclear talks resume next month. Richardson made the trip on his own, not at the request of the White House.

A deputy police chief in southern Afghanistan is dead following a car bomb attack. The governor of the province blamed the attack on Taliban rebels. Several community leaders in the country have been the targets of attacks over the past few weeks.

The Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, says his government is preparing for an invasion from the United States. The U.S. and Venezuela have been at odds. But a State Department spokesman says there are no invasion plans.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com