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Laura Coates Live

Truth-Challenged Congressman Is Kicked Out of Congress; Federal Judge Denies Trump's Bid To Dismiss Election Subversion Case; CNN Remembers Sandra Day O'Connor; Tennessee Woman Runs For State Office Life-Saving Abortion; CNN Presents "Overtime With Bill Maher"; "Rosa Parks Day" Could Become A New Federal Holiday. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired December 01, 2023 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: One of the most exclusive clubs in the country has a brand-new member tonight, but it's not a club you'd actually want to belong to. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

With apologies to "The Sound of Music," how do you solve a problem like George Santos? Well, no surprise, I think they may have cracked a nut. The House voted today to kick him out of Congress. What's his response? "Why would I want to stay here? To hell with this place." I'm quoting him.

And that is the epitome of "you can't fire me, I quit" from the now ex-congressman who just yesterday refused to resign while wearing Ferragamo shoes and driving and arriving in a Jaguar. I point that out because of some of the receipts that came in the ethics report

Now, he's joining a pretty exclusive club. No, not the college volleyball team. This is a really exclusive club with only five members. Well, now they have a sixth. The only six members who've ever been thrown out of Congress in the 234-year history. And let me tell you, they are a regular -- well, maybe a rogue's gallery might be the appropriate phrase to use.

You got John B. Clark, John W. Reid, and Henry C. Burnett, who were expelled back in 1861 for fighting for the confederacy. Also, Michael "Ozzie" Myers. No, not the one from "Halloween." I know I began with the movie reference. I'm talking about a real person here, the one who was expelled in 1980 after he was convicted as part of the infamous FBI Abscam investigation. He and other lawmakers were caught up in a sting operation, taken bribes to help make believe -- to help a make- believe Arab sheik.

Now, fun fact, it was the inspiration. Yes, you got it, for the Oscar winning movie, "American Hustle." It's Friday night, I admit the movie references are getting a little extreme, but then there is this one, James Traficant Jr., who got kicked out after being convicted of several crimes, including bribery back in 2002. And that's it, six in 234 years. Now, you got to add George Santos. I want to bring in Congressman Glenn Ivey. He was one of the 311 members who voted to expel George Santos today, and he also sits on the Ethics Committee that recommended his expulsion. Congressman Ivey, I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for joining me today.

I'm going to tell you, people were wondering if this day would come, the second they started to hear about how he got elected in the first place. Is it long overdue or the right time given the ethics report release?

REP. GLENN IVEY (D-MD): Well, I mean, I thought it was important to get the report out. You know, the Ethics Committee staff did a fantastic job in doing the investigation. We did. And it took time. They went through 170,000 pages of documents and, you know, 40 subpoenas, did over 40 interviews and depositions. So, you know, we did it the right way.

I think that's an important fact because, you know, you have people who are concerned about expelling someone from the Congress. I think it was important that we'd done a thorough investigation that supported that position.

COATES: Yet there are going to be still complaints and there are to this very moment, about due process.

IVEY: Uh-hmm.

COATES: You had a prosecutor, your legal acumen is very sound, and you knew this was coming, I'm sure, about the ideas of, well, there haven't been convictions yet. There's a House ethics report, yeah. There are indictments, yes, but not a conviction. Should that have been required?

IVEY: No. I think the Constitution is clear on this point. It talks about a two-thirds vote as a requirement, which is essentially the safeguard to protect members from being expelled for partisan reasons or, you know, improper reasons.

But, you know, I think here, obviously, we got the two-thirds vote, but, you know, I think there was way more than you might want to have to make sure that you're putting somebody out for the right reasons. I think the criminal activity, the scope of it, the breadth of it, the venality of it, I thought, was really overwhelming. I haven't seen anything like this. Maybe Traficant but, you know, who also had bad hair days on a perpetual basis.

(LAUGHTER)

IVEY: But I think -- who am I to talk about bad hair, right?

[23:04:58]

But, you know, I think it's really clear that the level of misconduct here warranted this kind of action.

Another thing on that point, you know, I think it's important to remember that he got to the office basically on false pretenses. I mean, his campaign was a lie, what he said about his background, his experience, you know, his family relationships, all of that stuff. So, a lot of the voters in New York wanted him out. They thought they'd been tricked, and I think they had been.

COATES: That kind of undermines the argument that you're taking away or usurping the power of voters to have who they want in office if you're saying they didn't have a chance to know who they were even electing based on his conduct. But also, he could run again, right? This is not the finality that maybe other things would have.

IVEY: Absolutely. This is like "The Tennessee Three."

COATES: Hmm.

IVEY: So, you had those -- those people who were removed from office in Tennessee. The voters felt that they were removed improperly and, obviously, they were. And so, they put him right back in office. They didn't even have to clear out their offices, basically, before they were back.

I don't think George Santos is coming back. I think he realizes that, and I think that's why he declared a few days ago that he wouldn't run for reelection. But I don't think the voters would have him.

COATES: Well, we'll see, because that was a pretty blue district. It was then flipped with Santos. What will happen now in a slimmer majority, and you got your work cut out for you over the next couple of months. But a Princeton man on Friday night, nice to see you.

(LAUGHTER)

Congressman Glenn Ivey, thank you so much.

IVEY: Thank you.

COATES: Well, now that we are seeing some real repercussions for former Congressman George Santos, you know it is Friday night, you know tomorrow is going to be SNL, how are comedians and the late-night folks going to cope, to manage? Well, you know what? I've got one with me. Matt Friend is here or is it someone who sounds suspiciously like former President Donald Trump? Sir, what do you think about the expulsion?

MATT FRIEND, COMEDIAN: Well, excuse me, first of all, it is a really nasty setup. I will tell you, I really resent this setup. It's terrible to be with you on the fake news, CNN.

I will tell you what, George Santos is a nasty woman. A lot of us know he is a dog. He's a dog. And I'll tell you what, he has the best fashion sense since Rob DeSanctimonious's heels. We all know that to be true.

But he should have listened to my advice. I know better -- more about makeup than he does, better than "The Apprentice," and maybe he'd still be in office if he listened to me. Thank you very much, China. (LAUGHTER)

That's great stuff.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: I don't even know what to say about that impersonation. Wow!

FRIEND: Thank you.

COATES: I wonder, though, how do you think George Santos is feeling tonight after his expulsion?

FRIEND: Well, you know, George Santos talks a lot about the Constitution, and given the fact that George Santos was friends with the people who wrote the Constitution, our founders, John Adams, I had lunch with him last week, I will tell you, Santos is sad. But he will be appearing on, you know, "Real Housewives," of course, and Andy Cohen will be moderating. So, I think Santos will be just fine at his next gig, honestly.

COATES: Um, is Matt here today? Is Matt coming? I think I just heard Trump.

FRIEND: Not only am I here, I'm so thrilled to be here. First time on CNN. Thank you so much for having me.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Look, I -- I'm blown away by your impersonations. I can tell you that is uncanny for so many reasons.

FRIEND: Thank you.

COATES: And you have no shortage of material. But is that why you think people have been so fascinated? I mean, a part of me sometimes thought it was perhaps Sacha Baron Cohen who was playing a prank on all of us. And while I was waiting for that moment to go, what is happening here?

FRIEND: This was just a giant "Scooby-Doo" episode. Yeah, George Santos was the criminal --

COATES: Oh, no.

FRIEND: -- just going to take the mask off at the end. But I feel like we are so drawn to this character. He's effectively a character because in the post-Trump presidency, I feel like we just need something to pay attention to. It's like an HBO miniseries inventing Anna to the next level, George Delvey. I'm excited to see who's going to play him in whenever that miniseries comes. Maybe it'll be on CNN Plus. But it just --

COATES: Oh, okay.

FRIEND: But I will say -- COATES: It was funny.

FRIEND: I will say that I think I am just as qualified to be on this show as Santos was in Congress. I was like, what am I doing here right now? It's CNN. This is amazing. But I am qualified to do a Santos impression because we are both two very proud Jews. And that is a fact.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Oh, my God. Matt, where are we going to see George Santos next?

FRIEND: I think we're going to see George Santos probably on "Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen" because I think I can picture Santos in the clubhouse ripping a shotski with some housewives, arguing with Tom Sandoval. So, shotskis with Santos, that's a new segment on "Watch What Happens Live." Who knows?

COATES: I watched. I know exactly every head motion you're doing because --

FRIEND: Yeah.

COATES: -- clearly, I have watched all those episodes, too. Matt Friend, you put a smile on my face today for a time when we're talking about a really odd fraternity here when you're talking about all the people who were expelled.

FRIEND: It's so crazy, this news, that even Mitch McConnell saw Santos was out. McConnell said, wait a second, you mean to tell me --

(LAUGHTER)

-- that George Santos is out of the job?

[23:10:02]

What's he going to do next?

COATES: Where do I go from here, Matt Friend? Where do I go from here? There's nowhere else to go. The prairie chicken. Had you said the Mitch McConnell prairie chicken comment, I would have lost my mind.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you so much for being here.

FRIEND: Thank you.

COATES: I'm trying to be a professional on primetime television, and here you come on a Friday night and doing all what you're messing around doing.

FRIEND: I learned from the best, all those George Santos press conferences. He knows what he's doing. COATES: Now, how am I going to make a turn? You know what? I'm not even going to pretend. Goodbye, Matt Friend.

FRIEND: Goodbye to you.

COATES: We'll see you later.

FRIEND: Thank you so much.

COATES: I'm going to do a quick turn. Oh, my God. I had an eyeliner. It's all ruined now because of him. That's bad news for me. But it's also bad news tonight for the real former president, not the one who was just impersonated, because a federal judge in Trump's election subversion case in Washington says, nope, you do not have absolute immunity for what you said and what you did after the election, and nope, I'm not going dismiss the charges.

So, what does all this mean for Donald Trump's attempts to hold criminal cases? And there are a bunch of them at bay.

Joining me now is Gwen Keyes, former DeKalb County district attorney. Don't worry Gwen, I am not going to ask you to do an impersonation, but if you have one, it better not be in large oats. I will not have you do it. But let me -- let's -- you and I both impersonate former prosecutors, shall we, because we --

GWEN KEYES, FORMER DEKALB COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There you go.

COATES: -- both really know what to do there. Judge Chutkan --

KEYES: Yes.

COATES: -- denied Trump's request for a dismissal based on presidential immunity. I'm going to read the quote of what she had to say, quoting, "Defendant's four-year service as Commander in Chief did not bestow on him the divine right of kings to evade the criminal accountability that governs his fellow citizens."

Now, that is about as unequivocal as a judge can get. So, what are the implications?

KEYES: Well, in that particular case, it's clear that Judge Chutkan is saying what the law is, that there is not absolute immunity for the former president and that his actions done for campaigning, he was acting like an ordinary citizen, and as such, he would be held accountable as an ordinary citizen.

And what I like is the fact that that is also the sentiment that you're hearing out of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. I love the way they also came to that same conclusion and clearly said that campaigning for reelection is not a presidential act, and therefore, you cannot have presidential immunity for the things you say and do in the course of the campaign.

COATES: Will this hold up, this ruling on appeal? It's going to be appeal before the March trial date. KEYES: It's going to be appeal, and that's the interesting thing. Judge Chutkan's decision is going to be appealed to the very court that also had a similar ruling today. So, I think what many of us are looking for is to see what happens in terms of whether it ultimately gets to the Supreme Court, where we can have those nine justices actually weigh in on this issue.

COATES: We're like 340 days away from a presidential election. I mean, the timeline of all this is really, really intense. Let's go down to Georgia, though, because in Georgia, Trump's lawyer made the argument that the charges again ought to be thrown out on First Amendment grounds, which is an argument the judge has already, by the way, rejected with other defendants. So, why is he trying this again?

KEYES: Well, I think a lot of this now, as you know, is to preserve issues for appeal. They don't raise them at the various levels of trial and in motions. They'll lose the right to raise them later.

So even though the judge has ruled against this same type of argument against other defendants, each defendant is different. And so, they're going to take their shot. We can anticipate that Judge McAfee is going to be consistent. I don't see any reason for him to rule any differently on the issue this time around.

But there were some other creative arguments again today in terms of how having this trial in the middle of the election will be the greatest election interference occasion ever known. And so, the irony in that, I think, can't be lost given the fact that we are talking one of the greatest election interference challenges in Georgia and really on January 6.

COATES: There is so much more to unpack, and there will be many other opportunities for you and I to converse. Gwen Keyes, I will see you again soon.

KEYES: I look forward to it. Thanks.

COATES: You know, we lost a giant in the law today. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, the first woman to sit on the Supreme Court of the United States, and I'll never forget what she told me the day I had the opportunity to meet her. I'll tell you about it, next.

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[23:15:00]

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COATES: You know, tonight, the world remembers the daughter of an Arizona rancher who rose to the heights of American law. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor was once considered the most powerful woman in the country, the first woman to serve on the United States Supreme Court. Justice O'Connor's pivotal opinion shaped the law in this country on issues as varied as affirmative action, abortion, voting rights, and religion. And tonight, as so many people are sharing their stories and memories, I'd like to share my own. It was back in 2014 when I was still a federal prosecutor and I was pregnant with my first daughter, my second child, and I was asked if I would want to come and meet the Supreme Court Justice. I could not say yes fast enough. Are you kidding me? I would love to meet her. I didn't know what the opportunity would actually mean.

[23:20:01]

I wasn't sure what type of person she would be when you finally meet the kind of hero of yours in the law or in other circumstances. And when I met her, she was so sweet, so kind, so humble.

What I loved most is what she said to me about my pregnancy. When we spoke, she asked me what I was having, and I was a month away from having a little girl, and I said as much, and she said, oh, thank God, now let her be a lawyer.

Even in that moment as she touched my belly and empowered and thought to tell me ways to empower my own daughter, it was indicative of who she was as a Supreme Court justice.

Now, of course, if you knew my little girl, you'd know the next part is entirely true as well because my daughter kicked out, kicking, a former Supreme Court Justice of the United States, and she just took it in stride and commented on the spunk that she really did end up having.

And it's her legacy for women and my own daughter that I want to remember tonight. She joined the court just under a decade after Roe was decided by a court of 12 women -- 12 men, excuse me, and was pivotal in protecting the right to abortion in 1992's Planned Parenthood versus Casey.

Now, she would live to see the high court overturn Roe v. Wade and upend the right to reproductive care that had endured for decades, a ruling that has spurred now a new generation of women into politics, women like my next guest, who was forced to travel from her home state of Tennessee to New York to end a pregnancy that was putting her life at risk.

Well, now, she's running for state office in her home district to make sure other women don't have to go through what she went through. Allie Phillips joins me now. Allie, thank you so much for joining me. Tell me about what happened that has really led you to know now that you want to be in politics.

ALLIE PHILLIPS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR TENNESSEE STATE HOUSE: That is a loaded question. I had no interest in being in politics until what happened to me happened. And it really wasn't just one thing. It was my story of being diagnosed with fatal pregnancy and not being able to get the healthcare in Tennessee, having to fly to New York City only to find out my daughter died in utero at some point in that timeframe, to then hearing story after story coming out of Texas and Florida and Idaho. And I say it was the 10-year-old girl in Ohio who had to travel across state lines because I have a six-year-old daughter, and I couldn't imagine the trauma that a little girl at that age had to go through to get an abortion.

And it was that amongst many other things that truly pushed me to make the decision. Nobody is going to fight for my daughter and myself the way I will. And I need to step up and I need to make sure that nobody else faces what I went through. If I have anything to do about it, I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen.

COATES: And you actually tried to work with your existing lawmakers, trying to advocate with them to get the objectives met. And that did not satisfy you. It did not, in fact, culminate in any achievable, measurable goal.

PHILLIPS: It truly kind of just solidified what we already knew about our supermajority GOP men here in Tennessee. I met with my current representative, who is now my opponent, for two hours. He said to me that he only thought the first pregnancy could go bad, referring to the fact that this was my second pregnancy and first loss.

And on top of that, he had -- I tried to humanize my story because he has a daughter not too much younger than I am. He pretty much said that if she had the same situation as me, the way he grew up is he would tell her he thinks she should continue her pregnancy, and that if she got an abortion, he wouldn't be happy about it.

And so, for me, all that said was that you don't even care about your own daughter's life. How are you going to care about your constituents and the rest of the Tennesseans?

And I think, along with that, I was like, you know, we hear that these pro-life Republican men truly don't understand women's health care. But when you're sitting across the table, two feet from one of them and hearing what they actually have to say in the little bit that they do know, if anything at all, it's terrifying knowing that they're voting on these laws.

COATES: Have you heard from other potential candidates or other women across the country and men also who have shared in the experience that you have talked about with your own husband, um, that are now deciding, why not me?

PHILLIPS: I have, and I've been very fortunate with the outpour of support that I've received with sharing my story online. There have been a few women who I've spoken with personally who said that my story and my inspiration and ideas for running inspired them to look into it themselves.

[23:25:04]

I don't know if they're going to run in 2024. I don't know, you know, when their cycle is going to be the best time for them, but the fact that they're thinking about it just says how powerful just a single story can be and how persuasive it can make others be like, you know what, I have a story like this, I don't like my current representative, I think I have better ideas that can take care of my neighbors. And so, I think we're going to see more people step up.

COATES: Well, as they say, Allie Phillips, you know, people think abortion will be on the ballot if not in real ink, maybe invisible ink, but it certainly has spurred people who want their names on the ballot to make sure that they perhaps can be the change they want to see in the world. Allie, thank you so much for joining us.

PHILLIPS: Thank you so much.

COATES: Coming up, CNN's presentation of HBO's "Overtime with Bill Maher."

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[23:30:00]

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COATES: Well, now, let's turn it over to our friends at HBO because, you know, every Friday, after "Real Time with Bill Maher," Bill and his guests answer viewer questions about topics in the national conversation. Here is "Overtime with Bill Maher."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(APPLAUSE)

BILL MAHER, HBO POLITICAL TALK SHOW HOST: I'll tell you, welcome to the little time on CNN. We're here with Democratic strategist and host of the "Politics War Room" podcast, James Carville, and host of "The Rubin Report" on YouTube and Rumble, Dave Rubin.

Okay, here are the questions for Dave. What did you think of Elon Musk's trip to Israel? Do you think he no longer harbors antisemitic and conspiratorial beliefs?

DAVE RUBIN, CREATOR/HOST, "THE RUBIN REPORT": Oh, well, he never had antisemitic or conspiratorial beliefs in the first place, but --

MAHER: Well --

RUBIN: -- Elon Musk is not an anti-Semite. There are plenty of anti- Semites out there. You called a whole bunch of them out during the show. I mean, Elon Musk going to Israel was absolutely great. I think too many people now don't believe anything they see, but they do believe Elon Musk. So, him going there and saying -- I saw the 47 minutes of footage. He's wearing dog tags of, you know, from one of the families --

MAHER: Okay. Well --

RUBIN: -- who lost their kids. There's a lot of anti-Semites out there, but Elon Musk is not one of them.

MAHER: That may be true.

(APPLAUSE)

I mean, look, he's a hard guy to follow all the time. I've tried.

(LAUGHTER)

And this thing did test my patience with him because he may not be an anti-Semite, but when someone tweets what they tweeted --

RUBIN: Right.

MAHER: -- and he tweets, you have spoken the actual truth, it looks really antisemitic.

(APPLAUSE)

So, I mean, come on.

RUBIN: I mean, I don't know -- I don't know how in the weeds you want to get on the comment, but the comment --

MAHER: I will do. What is the comment?

RUBIN: The comment that he was responding to was about that there are left-wing, thought of as Jewish organizations like the ADL, that are aiming their fire the wrong way all the time. So, they're attacking him, right, as opposed to attacking the people that are actually --

MAHER: No, I think --

RUBIN: -- anti-Semites like the lefties that you talked about earlier.

MAHER: All right. My understanding of it was that he was supporting the idea that -- what you heard --

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, PODCAST HOST: You're exactly right. It was the greatest act of Jew washing I've ever seen.

(LAUGHTER)

I've never heard something like that.

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: Yeah, I've never heard that term.

CARVILLE: Well, I mean, it's what you do when you --

MAHER: Oh, I get it.

CARVILLE: -- go out, if I say a thing. I mean, come on. Look, I have no idea. The last thing I want to do is pick a fight with a guy worth a trillion dollars.

(LAUGHTER) But that dude is weird, man. I'm going to tell you.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

MAHER: James, you famously said it's the economy, stupid. But voters seem to be responding to positive economic news. Voters don't seem to be responding to positive economic news in the polls. How do you explain this?

CARVILLE: Well, you know, you've got 60% of the Republicans that believe the earth is 6,000 years old.

MAHER: Oh, that's not a good answer.

CARVILLE: You say the polls, right?

MAHER: Okay.

CARVILLE: You deal with 5.6% growth. All right, by any record, now people don't feel it -- look, I think we should -- we should have made a change. You and I agree on that. And I don't know how much of the (INAUDIBLE) is that they can't see beyond the president. I mean, a cost of living has hurt people. But you just can't look at this economy and go out and say, this is a bad economy. That's impossible.

MAHER: But that's not really what you want to tell the voters.

CARVILLE: Well, I'm not running for office, Bill. I'm answering a question on television show.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

I wouldn't answer it the same way if I'm going to run for office.

MAHER: The reason why you're on a television show is because you're a known strategist. So, we're asking for your strategy. And your strategy seems to be to tell the voters, you don't know what you're talking about. I don't think that's a good way to get elected. I'm not a strategist.

CARVILLE: I would not say that. But you can't --

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: You just said it to me.

(LAUGHTER)

RUBIN: But he's not running for office.

MAHER: I know. But people -- here's what I think it is. The things that -- like you can cite the statistics, and yes, inflation is going down, it's going in the right direction, but the things that people buy every day in this country, bullets, eggs --

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

-- gas --

CARVILLE: Gas is out.

MAHER: Not here.

CARVILLE: I'm just telling you, the price of gas --

MAHER: Yes --

CARVILLE: -- we produce more -- we pump more oil than we ever have in history. Anyway, we pump more oil than Saudi Arabia. All right, just so you know that. But if you ask people, you think that the Democrats and Biden -- oh yeah, of course he is, 100%.

[23:35:02]

I can't -- the fact that people believe something doesn't make it a fact. There's a big story in "The Wall Street Journal" today. The crime rate has dropped significantly. Try to tell -- I argue with someone. But the crimes put 100,000, I think was 738, and you're down to 362 or something like that. You got out of city and act like I'm a factual clutch because somebody believes something that's not true? I don't buy that.

MAHER: Okay. Well, then, we'll move on.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

MAHER: So, Mike Johnson, he's from your home state of Louisiana, the speaker of the House. I read today he wrote a foreword in a book that conscribes to conspiracy theories and homophobic insults. I thought, Mike Johnson wrote a foreword to the Bible?

(LAUGHTER)

Do you think Mike Johnson can hold his party together now that he has taken the mantle?

CARVILLE: Well, first of all, I don't think he can hold his party together. Second of all, you're exactly right, Mike Johnson and what he believes is one of the greatest threats we have today to the United States.

(APPLAUSE)

I promise you, I know these people.

MAHER: You're talking about Christian nationalism. CARVILLE: Absolutely. This is a bigger threat than Al-Qaeda to this country. Let me tell you something. They have the speaker of the House. They got at least two Supreme Court justices, maybe more. Don't kid yourself. People and the press have no idea who this guy is, how he was formed, what the threat is, and this is a fundamental threat to the United States. It is a fundamental threat. They don't believe in the Constitution. They'll tell you that.

Mike Johnson himself says, what is democracy, but two wolves and a lamb having lunch? That's what they really, really believe. And to say, oh, come on, man, that's just some crazy shit. No, no. They believe that and they're coming and they've been doing it forever. They're funded. They're relentless. And, you know, they probably won't win for a while, but they might. And if they do, the whole country blows a gas.

MAHER: You just have to look at that painting. I think it's a concave painting that a lot of them like, where Jesus is handing the Constitution to Thomas Jefferson.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, if you could look at that and go, mm, that's the way it probably happened.

(LAUGHTER)

CARVILLE: I know it. I know it well.

RUBIN: That was a photo?

MAHER: That is -- no.

(LAUGHTER)

Is the rise of anti-immigration Dutch politician Geert Wilders -- ah, I remember interviewing him for (INAUDIBLE) --

RUBIN: Yeah.

MAHER: -- way back in 2007 -- a warning to the liberals in America that they need to take our immigration crisis more seriously? So, if you don't follow the story, Geert Wilders, he'd been running forever in Holland. You know, of course, "The New York Times" calls him a far- rightist. They call all these people. I mean, Meloni in Italy is another one. Viktor Orban is kind of a far-rightist in Hungary.

But not, I think some of them are just -- Brexit in England was part of this. People are feeling they are not welcome almost in their own home because of the kind of immigration that these people are fighting against. So --

RUBIN: Most of these people are not far-right by any way that we would think of far-right in that day like that they're racist. I actually met with Orban in Budapest. I talked to him for a little while. And all he kept saying was, you know I love hungry. That's all. I love my people. I love my country. That's it. I don't know what accent that was but that basically --

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: That's a dead-on impression of him. Can you do with walk?

RUBIN: There's a little bit of a waddle. But all of these guys, Geert Wilders, he wants Holland to be for the Dutch, right? Like that's what he wants. When we see --

MAHER: That's racist.

RUBIN: That's racist. That's what they would tell you, right? No, no -- wait, you meant that literally?

MAHER: No, no, no. I'm just -- no. I don't know what we're talking about. But --

(LAUGHTER)

--I was just going to say, Dutch for the Dutch. I would amend that if it was me. Dutch values.

RUBIN: No, Dutch values, of course.

MAHER: You don't have to be actually Dutch. You don't have to be white. That's what, I think, is great about America.

RUBIN: Of course.

MAHER: It's the idea. As long as you subscribe to our ideas, which again, to your point, and what I was saying at the end of the show, that we're not a Christian nation, that's not what is, this is a country where we have the First Amendment, then everybody should be welcome.

RUBIN: No, of course, it's not about skin color, but it is about culture. So, what happens is all of these people, whether they're in France or Belgium or any of the countries that you just mentioned, they're realizing, wow, we've got literally millions of people in our borders that are chanting for genocide and gas the Jews and the rest of it.

[23:40:02]

And by the way, it doesn't stop with the Jews, right? I mean, they were at the Christmas tree in Times Square yesterday or two days ago. So, people are realizing that. They're looking for anybody, and for some reason they always come with crazy hair, that will fix some of this stuff.

CARVILLE: So, I kind of have trouble, I think your question was, election in the Netherlands, is that somewhat of a one-year thing? Do you want a short, truthful answer?

MAHER: Yes.

CARVILLE: Yes. It does.

(LAUGHTER)

Okay? It does.

MAHER: Yeah.

CARVILLE: Because people, but understand this, people like immigrants. Okay?

MAHER: Right.

CARVILLE: What they don't like is disorder. And when you become the disorder party, whatever it is, you pay a price. Now, one of the reasons that we have in this problem, this is what 3.6% unemployment does for you. You think we're the only people that know that?

And by the way, somebody, if you got a woman that lives in Honduras and she walks with a 10-year-old and a 6-year-old to the Mexican border and wants to come in this country, come on in, lady, you're a motivated person. We need you, period. Okay?

RUBIN: No, no, you can't come. We have a border. We have a border. We have a country. You either have a country or you don't.

CARVILLE: Every border had refugee. Every border has asylum.

RUBIN: Yeah, but you can't just let them walk in.

CARVILLE: I'm sorry.

RUBIN: That's what the issue is.

CARVILLE: I'm for a six -- somebody walks with two kids, 600 miles, to come in this country, I got a job for you, lady. Come see me.

(APPLAUSE)

Find me one roofer in Florida that was born in the United States.

MAHER: I got a job, too. I got a job, and that means getting out on time. Thank you, CNN.

(APPLAUSE)

Thank you, everybody.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COATES: Well, you can watch "Real Time with Bill Maher" on Friday night on HBO at 10:00 p.m., and then you can watch "Overtime" right here on CNN, Friday nights at 11:30.

You know, today marks the 68th anniversary of the no that spark the civil rights movement. Rosa Parks's niece joins me next.

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[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Do you know that it was 68 years ago today that Rosa Parks boarded a bus in Montgomery, Alabama, took a seat, and refused to give it up for a white man. It led to her arrest, and her brave act of defiance helped launch the civil rights movement. Now, there's a push to declare this very day, December 1st, "Rosa Parks Day," a federal holiday.

Joining me now to reflect on her legacy is Rosa Parks's niece, Sheila McCauley Keys. Sheila, I'm so glad that you are here today. Look, this, if it were to come into pass -- and I see over your shoulder. I'm looking at a painting of your aunt as well. How beautiful is that to have in your home. It would be, if it were to come to pass, the first federal holiday to honor a woman in this country. That is surprising. What would this mean to you and your family?

SHEILA MCCAULEY KEYS, NIECE OF ROSA PARKS: Um, you know what? It would mean to, um, all of us. We will be so pleased because, uh, she was one person that will be so deserving of this. I just wish she could be here to see it. But we would, um, you know, really, really appreciate if this were to pass, um, because her life and her legacy, she is very much deserving of this honor.

COATES: You know, Sheila, for so many people, they know who Rosa Parks, the civil rights figure and heroin really is. But you know her as auntie. Talk to me a little bit about the human being behind the movement, the woman who, you know, when you talk about who is deserving of the praise and the legacies that follow, she was a woman, she was a person who said no was a complete sentence. Tell me about your auntie behind the scenes.

MCCAULEY KEYS: Well, I would like to simply say that she was a person that knew the power that an economic boycott could have. She had an analytical mind. She could think things through. She could come up with solutions or a solution, you know, if need be. And she was actually prepared for what happened that day on the bus in 1955. It just didn't happen, you know, by accident.

She, you know, was not a little old tired lady getting off of work. She was a young married woman of faith. She was only 42 years old. So that would make her by today's standard like a modern-day millennial. So, our Auntie Rosa was a force to be reckoned with.

And she knew the importance of economic empowerment. She knew that that should be the foundation of this country if it were to be a successful one. So that meant empowering all of its citizens --

COATES: Hmm.

MCCAULEY KEYS: -- and that was true in 1955 and still true today in 2023. So --

COATES: Yeah. Sheila, what a true word you --

MCCAULEY KEYS: I think she had some insight --

[23:50:00]

-- Uh-hmm.

COATES: I mean, the insight, the foresight, thinking about her as just tired that day and happening upon a movement diminishes really the intellect, the power, and so many reasons to honor her today and, frankly, every day. I'm glad that we got the chance to speak with you today. Thank you, Sheila.

MCCAULEY KEYS: And thank you. Thank you for having me on. Thank you.

COATES: How nice. Thank you. Everyone, we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

COATES: Well, we're just about one week away from announcing the 2023 CNN hero of the year. I'll be hosting along with Anderson Cooper, and I cannot wait to find out who was going to win. Here's an introduction to just one of the top 10 heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TESCHA HAWLEY, CNN HERO: Our reservation is about 30 miles from the Canadian border in central Montana. You're probably about a good three hours to major hospitals.

Okay, we're on our way.

We know the need is huge for transportation. The majority of our people are living in poverty. If I didn't physically transport them, I would help them with food, a hotel or gas.

I started getting into the nutrition of it. If we could eat healthy, it will reduce our risk of cancer.

Hi!

We have done distributions of fresh fruits and vegetables, fresh eggs, and we joined in a collaboration with our tribe to help harvest our buffalo.

Prior to my diagnosis of cancer, I thought my life was based on my professional career and my education. But now, I know that this is my calling.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

You can go to CNNheroes.com right now to vote for the CNN hero of the year. You know what? I'll see you there.

Thank you all for watching. Our coverage continues.

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