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American Morning
United Nations Troops Trickling into Southern Lebanon; Hillary Clinton: Love Her or Hate Her?
Aired August 21, 2006 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Rick Sanchez. I'm sitting in for Miles.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Nice to have you helping us out. Appreciate it.
SANCHEZ: Always good to be here.
O'BRIEN: I'm Soledad O'Brien, everybody. Welcome.
United Nations troops are trickling now into Southern Lebanon. This weekend's Israeli commando raid on Hezbollah sites has strained, though, the already uneasy cease-fire. We're watching the story from both sides of the border.
CNN's Anthony Mills in Beirut, Paula Hancocks in Jerusalem.
Let's begin with Anthony.
Good morning.
ANTHONY MILLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Yes, that weekend raid on the Hezbollah stronghold of Baalbek east of Beirut, in the Bekaa Valley, about 15 miles from the Lebanese- Syrian border really underscored the fragility of this cease-fire.
Now a short while ago I spoke to a high-ranking Lebanese government source, and he said that within the cabinet, that there was concern that the deployment of United Nations troops had not happened in a more rapid and forthright manner.
Now, that's a subject that's actually going to be discussed in a cabinet session this evening, the deployment of international troops, along with a discussion of what, from the Lebanese government's perspective was a naked breach of the cease-fire resolution, that raid in Baalbek -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Anthony Mills for us. Thanks, Anthony.
MILLS: Israel defended Saturday's raid, saying it was aimed at preventing Syria and Iran from transporting weapons to Hezbollah.
CNN's Paula Hancocks is in Jerusalem with that side of the story.
Hey, Paula. Good morning. PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Morning, Soledad.
Well, as far as the Israeli officials are concerned, this was a successful operation. Now we are hearing from Israeli officials that the only reason they carried out this military operation was so that they could prevent re-arming to Hezbollah, saying it was coming from Iran and Syria. Both those countries deny that.
We do know also that one soldier was killed and two wounded, but the Israeli officials and the military do consider it still very problematic, the fact that the rearming of Hezbollah is going to be happening, they consider, on that eastern coast of Lebanon, and they say they will have to continue to stop this is rearming until the U.N. forces are there to do it for them.
Now, we also understand that there were many airstrikes as well in that particular area on Saturday night. Of course Israel defends its actions. The U.N. saying it is a violation of this resolution. But a Foreign Officer Ministry spokesman said it had no choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK REGEV, ISRAELI FOR. MINISTRY SPOKESMAN: The cease-fire is based on Security Council resolution 1701, and that resolution is explicit that there has to be in force a total arms embargo against Hezbollah. And we were seeing the transfer of elicit weapons. That's a clear violation, and we're entitled to act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: Now, we know that Israel warplanes have also been doing fly-overs in northern Lebanon, just along the Mediterranean coast. We expect this to continue as well. This, again, Lebanon calling a violation -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Paula, can I ask you a quick question? They're pitching this raid as being successful. But there are many people who would say just by virtue of the fact that we know about this commando raid means there were problems with it.
HANCOCKS: That's right. Yes, there are many that are assuming this was never supposed to be in the public arena, that this was supposed to be a swoop in by these commandos, and they were going to take out the particular weapons or the fighters that they believed were violating this resolution.
But the fact is, there was a fierce fight between Hezbollah fighters and the Israeli soldiers themselves, which shows that, yes, in that particular sense it wouldn't really be seen as a successful operation.
But this is what the military is publicly saying, they saw that there was going to be a violation of this resolution, they saw arms could be coming back in to Hezbollah, they didn't believe Lebanese troops in that area were able to deal with it, so they went in themselves. O'BRIEN: Paula Hancocks for us this morning. Paula, thanks.
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(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: A Baptist church in upstate New York has fired a Sunday school teacher for being female, apparently. It's shocking the congregation, the community, too.
Carol's got that story.
Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Who would have thought we heard a story like this in 2006. I mean, it's just a amazing. Eighty-one- year-old Mary Lambert was a no-show for Sunday services at the First Baptist Church in Watertown, New York. She was fired as a Sunday school teacher, because according to church leaders, women cannot teach men. The church says her firing is a private matter and should not have become public. Oh, but it did. Now this woman, who's devoted her life to the church, is in the eye of the storm.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY LAMBERT, FIRED SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER: There was not any forewarning about this at all.
COSTELLO: Mary Lambert's been a member of Watertown's First Baptist Church for 60 years. She's taught Sunday school or Bible study for 54 of those years. And just last week the 81-year-old Lambert was dismissed from her teaching position because she's a woman.
LAMBERT: Am I saddened? oh, yes, definitely. My heart was broken.
COSTELLO: The letter Lambert received from the church board cited a Bible passage from the New Testament, prohibiting women from teaching men. It says, quote, "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man. She must be silent."
LAMBERT: I've had a number of calls from people within the church being as astonished at the letter as I was.
COSTELLO: The church, for its part, says Lambert's firing is about more than just new scriptural qualifications. It issued a statement saying, quote, "The board's decision to remove her from a teaching position was multifaceted, and the scriptural rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting was only a small aspect of that decision."
PASTOR TIMOTHY LEBOUF, FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH: You know, I believe that women can pursue and excel in any part of life. COSTELLO: But Pastor Timothy Lebouf stands by the letter sent to Mary Lambert, raising concerns about how his church views reflect on his other position as a Watertown City councilman.
MYR. JEFFREY GRAHAM, WATERTOWN, NEW YORK: If what's said in that letter reflects the councilman's views, those are disturbing remarks, in this day and age. Maybe they wouldn't have been disturbing 500 years ago, but they are now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't want an elected official that doesn't want women to have equal rights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Politics, church and state, they shouldn't mix. They really shouldn't.
COSTELLO: Mary Lambert says she's had her differences with the pastor since he was installed two years ago, and believes her dismissal is about church politics, not Bible study.
LAMBERT: I think it all goes back to some of the discussions we've had and some of the things that have happened in the past.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Can you say church politics? The church board says, though, do not rush to judgment; there is more to this story. But it says, Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making public accusations.
O'BRIEN: Oh, the old -- there's bad stuff there, but we're too Christian to mention it?
COSTELLO: It would be not Christian to mention the shortcomings in Mary's teaching.
O'BRIEN: Because that would be un-Christian.
COSTELLO: Exactly. In the meantime, Mary is not giving up. She attended a different church on Sunday, and she does not plan to stay silent on this matter, so expect to hear more from Mary in the coming days.
O'BRIEN: Interesting to see how the councilman does. He's a councilman, from Watertown?
COSTELLO: He's a councilman. And the city manager is a woman.
SANCHEZ: But this started because there's a new minister.
O'BRIEN: Pastor is fairly new. The church board changed its rules. There's a lot of politicking going on with new parishioners.
O'BRIEN: We can't talk about it. It would be very un-Christian. Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Sure. SANCHEZ: Coming up, "Time" magazine says it looks like Senator Hillary Clinton will run for president, but will her husband help or hurt in the cause, or maybe a little of both? We will take a look at what they have found.
COSTELLO: Also this morning, we're talking to director Spike Lee. He's got a new documentary about Hurricane Katrina. It makes its debut on HBO today. He's going to tell us why this project was one of his most important ever.
SANCHEZ: Also the questions surrounding John Mark Karr's confession. If he didn't kill JonBenet Ramsey, why would he lie? Why would he be saying it? Famous false confessions of the past, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love her?
QUESTION: Why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's Hillary Clinton. What's not to love?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't like her.
QUESTION: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her personality, I guess. I'm not really sure, but she's kind of repelling in a way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love her, love her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That seems to be the way most people across the country, particularly in my world, feel about her. Some love her; some hate her. Personally, I think she's great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Officially she's focused on her Senate re-election race, but Hillary Clinton may already be setting the stage for a White House run in 2008. "Time" magazine this week looks at Mrs. Clinton's presidential ambitions, and whether Americans think that she has the right stuff.
"Time" editor Rick Stengel is good enough to join us this morning. How long did it take you to come up with that catchy headline for the magazine?
RICK STENGEL, "TIME" MAGAZINE: You know, we did one a few years ago on George Bush, the love 'em, hate 'em presidency of George Bush, and we thought, she's just as polarizing, or almost as polarizing as he is, so why not do it again.
SANCHEZ: Let's look at some of the numbers now. This is interesting, how Democrats feel about her, as opposed to how Republicans feel about her.
First, did we look at the issue of whether she's a strong leader. Republicans, only 25 percent. Democrats, 77 percent. On terrorism, Republican, 17 percent. Democrats, 67 percent. Now look at the disparity in these. Take a look at this one. On whether or not she has moral values, Republicans, 16 percent. Democrats, 69 percent.
Rick, what does this tell us?
STENGEL: She's like a human Rorschach tests. I mean, the Republicans and Democrats are seeing two different people. It's kind of amazing. The Democrats see her as almost a saint, just this extraordinary woman, and Republicans question whether she has any kind of moral center whatsoever. It really is kind of amazing, the divergence.
SANCHEZ: Speaking of moral centers, as a result of polls like this, which I'm sure she's aware of, is she now trying to move into the center? Is she doing the old triangulation that her husband, through Dick Morris, became so famous for?
STENGEL: You know, she has governed as a moderate when she's been in the Senate. She's been a very solid senator. She's very good on the Armed Services Committee. I think she wants to make sure that people don't think of her as a liberal, which Republicans do. But our poll also shows that Democrats see her as a centrist, they see her as a moderate, not as a liberal.
SANCHEZ: Interestingly enough, I read in your article that she has as many as 32 employees working for her on a national scale?
STENGEL: Well, she...
SANCHEZ: Doesn't that look to you -- when I see that, my eyebrows raise, and, I think, she must be planning something bigger.
STENGEL: She is running for re-election in New York. I think she's a shoo-in. I don't think she's actually decided whether she wants to run for president or not. She wants to be in a position where she can, if she does, and I think then she can just flip a switch, but I don't think a decision has actually been made yet.
SANCHEZ: But there's certainly some investigation going on.
STENGEL: Sure, I mean, they're all talking about it. We have a lot of reporting that so many of her advisers, including her closest adviser, the greatest political adviser of all time, Bill Clinton, is urging her to run. But we have, you know, no information that she's actually made a decision yet.
SANCHEZ: Let's pick up on what you just mentioned, her greatest political adviser, Bill Clinton, -- does he help or hurt her?
STENGEL: It's interesting. We have a lot of questions about Clinton, and sometimes he helps her and sometimes he hurts her. People, though, want to see her run on her own. They want to see her govern on her own. You know, he's an asset in many ways, because people in the Democratic Party love anything named Clinton, but they want to see that she can do it herself.
SANCHEZ: Interestingly enough he was speaking recently, and I think it was in Atlanta, and it almost like he makes her seem pale by comparison, because he's such a wonderful orator. She's not.
STENGEL: Yes, I mean, his skills in that department are singular. There's nobody who can compete with him. In fact, I would never even have them on the stage together, because it makes her look a little bit -- not quite as good as he does.
SANCHEZ: One piece of good news that you found in your article, and this is important, 53 percent favorables -- higher than Gore, higher than Kerry, higher than Edwards. Does that surprise you?
STENGEL: Well, I think the way she's governed since she's been in the Senate, as a moderate, as somebody reasonable, as somebody who's not a diva, I think has made people like her more and respect her more, and I think that's helped her a lot.
SANCHEZ: "Time" magazine editor, Rick Stengel, thanks. Thanks for being with us.
STENGEL: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: It's an interesting article. Look forward to completing it when finally a get a chance.
By the way, we should mention this, too. You can vote in "Time" magazine's Hillary Clinton "love her or hate her" poll. It's at www.time.com -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right, thanks, guys.
Coming up, we're "Minding Your Business." The iPod is about to get some tough competition, and the competition is less expensive, and the competition holds more songs. We'll tell you what it is, just ahead.
Stay with us. We're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
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